=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 10 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 10 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 04 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team | 05 Sep 20:00: MOTU | 08 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC === Rafik_ is now known as Rafik === Rafik_ is now known as Rafik === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [12:56] Hey Chris [12:56] lool: Hello [12:57] Hi cgregan lool [12:57] * cgregan waves [13:00] * ogra waves [13:00] #startmeeting [13:00] Meeting started at 07:00. The chair is davidm. [13:00] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [13:00] Ha mootbot is alive [13:00] :-) [13:00] yeah, since last night :) [13:01] OK, from the top, I'm going to carry over the Ekaga testing, lool and I have not gotten to it yet, lool should I carry that for 1 or 2 weeks? [13:02] davidm: Please carry over; I wanted to play with the webcam this week, but only had time to test whether ekiga and cheese would recognize it [13:02] (cheese doesn't, I need to prepare the new upstream and ekiga does) [13:02] OK, [13:02] I've searched for free SIP providers supporting video in vain [13:02] pointers welcome [13:02] [topic]lool+davidm+... test new version of Ekiga (2.9) [13:02] New Topic: lool+davidm+... test new version of Ekiga (2.9) [13:03] I opened free accounts to 3 sip providers [13:03] [action] lool+davidm+... test new version of Ekiga (2.9) (carryover) [13:03] ACTION received: lool+davidm+... test new version of Ekiga (2.9) (carryover) [13:03] [topic] lool to review modest and libwpeditor+ after he has time to address some of its issues. [13:03] New Topic: lool to review modest and libwpeditor+ after he has time to address some of its issues. [13:03] lool: http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Asterisk+video might be helpful if you can't find a proper provider. [13:03] I didn't have time to work on this; I thought I should prefer working on features which missed FF than bug fixes [13:04] lool, agree [13:04] persia: I remembered visiting that page [13:04] *remember [13:04] davidm: This impacts discussion on modest later in this meeting I'm afraid [13:04] lool, I'm not going to carry this over, it's on your list [13:05] persia: Actually this page is on clients; there's another page on providers [13:05] lool: We can discuss after the meeting: it's about being one's own provider. [13:05] persia: But I browsed to a couple websites, and the list was basically quite unusable; most web sites suggested to write to this or that email address for pricing... [13:05] [topic] all add spec ideas for intrepid+1 at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/IntrepidPlusOneSpecSuggestions [13:05] New Topic: all add spec ideas for intrepid+1 at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/IntrepidPlusOneSpecSuggestions [13:05] persia: No way I'm spending the time to setup asterisk just for this [13:05] heh [13:05] [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/IntrepidPlusOneSpecSuggestions [13:05] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/IntrepidPlusOneSpecSuggestions [13:06] This is just to remind folks to please add Spec suggestions, UDS is getting closer [13:06] persia: Didyou add the last entry on that page? [13:06] persia: Could you add your name to it? [13:06] It appears I did. Adding now. [13:07] davidm: Thanks for the reminder [13:08] [topic]current status [13:08] New Topic: current status [13:08] cgregan, status? [13:08] sure [13:08] cgregan: Welcome to the team! [13:09] Thanks! [13:09] Currently working on several projects for Solutions Group. As well as taking a look at modest [13:09] and comparing to claws [13:09] and TB [13:10] Beginning cases for the Intrepid cycle [13:10] All in all pretty busy.... [13:10] Oh [13:10] and buying a house...moving to Boston [13:10] yay [13:10] :-) [13:10] congrats [13:11] thanks [13:11] That's it for me [13:12] StevenK, status? [13:13] davidm: Been working on the home screen for the last two days [13:13] davidm: Trying to get something sorted out that is better than the current m-b-f [13:13] That should be sorted out tomorrow and I'll be testing ogra's script against the images [13:13] Also need to fix old image deletion on antimony [13:14] I think that's everything [13:14] Is the problem with our images sorted? [13:14] No, but amitk has a lead, and it ought be good soon. [13:14] davidm: Not really, it's a kernel bug which is being chased by amitk, pete and others [13:15] It's an aufs bug when you change a while which has been removed AIUI [13:15] It's bug #264048 [13:15] Launchpad bug 264048 in linux-lpia "aufs hangs on rename() in MID live images" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/264048 [13:15] OK, thanks [13:15] persia, status? [13:15] ogra: Hmm should also affect linux, forgot to do that [13:15] * lool [13:15] ogra: I mean *I* forgot to do that, not you [13:16] I found lots of interesting ways to break the images, and even broke some customised images. [13:16] :) [13:16] That said, I've been fiddling with developing the preseed file we want on the intrepid i386 liveCD, so we have something to drop when we have good images again. [13:16] persia: Is the ubiquity xorg crash solved? [13:16] There's also a couple arch-specific installer bugs that I need to sort out. [13:17] lool: No. I still can't strace that. On the other hand, I can only reproduce it on frankenimages, so I'm not sure it's not an environmental issue. [13:18] persia: What remains to be done when the kernel bug is fixed? [13:18] lool: Drop of the preseed file into our images, and address the two or three arch-specific bugs. Biggest one is that the partition types for lpia aren't registered. [13:19] That assumes that the clean images won't have any environmental bugs for running ubiquity, but I'm hoping I can't reproduce my crash (because it doesn't crash like that with the lpia images and ubiquity) [13:20] So it will need an ubiquity upload, an ubuntu-mid-default-settings upload and a partman upload or? [13:21] Shouldn't need any changes in ubiquity. We'll need to tweak the script that runs between livecd.sh and having images. [13:21] (Where I'm going here is: what are the packages from the main distro which will need an exception) [13:21] Probably partman, but I haven't looked into that one very deeply. [13:21] I think only the partitioner. [13:22] Ok; if you have preliminary patches, I think you can already open FFE bugs if they are warranted with your current diff [13:22] Please sub me on these [13:22] persia: What changes need to be made to the script that constructs the image? [13:22] StevenK: We'll need to add the preseed file to the CD to instruct ubiquity what not to do. [13:23] s/CD/image [13:23] persia: Sure. [13:23] persia: That can be arranged. [13:23] StevenK: I thought so :) [13:23] For suitable amounts of chocolate. [13:24] * StevenK looks at Hobbsee. [13:24] are we good to continue? [13:24] lool: Do you think the possible FFe issues are more important to hit than the ubiquity configuration? I can work against the alternate CD now and hit those separately: it's an independent track. [13:24] persia: What I want is anything preventing actual upload when upload is ready to be started at the earliest [13:25] lool: OK. [13:25] amitk: We just discussed installer status [13:25] amitk: It's mostly blocked on the kernel aufs bug [13:25] hmmm? [13:25] amitk: Could you give a quick status of the intrepid aufs plan with the new upstream and all? [13:25] amitk, can you give us the status of the kernel aufs bug? [13:26] looks solved [13:26] amitk: You know, with your kernel happy hat [13:26] aufs (the version we have in intrepid) has a deadlock bug on renames [13:27] this is already solved upstream and the current plan is to just update our aufs code with the latest from upstream [13:27] amitk: We're currently tracking 2.6.26 in linux-lpia, it looks like we will want to move to .27 [13:28] ofcourse this will require proper testing to make sure we don't break livecds [13:28] amitk: Do you think a fixed linux-lpia could be uploaded on Friday? [13:28] (tomorrow) [13:28] amitk: You can upload linux-lpia straight away if you like, it's too broken for us to do much out of it anyway [13:28] amitk: lpia livecds are currently broken: don't worry too much about breaking them if it puts you in a better position to fix them later. [13:28] I am currently working on rebasing the linux-lpia tree for intrepid onto 2.6.27 and bringing it in sync with the main kernel tree [13:29] Cool; do you have an ETA for an upload? [13:29] persia: I am not worried about lpia in the least. I am worries about breaking i386/amd64 cds due to the aufs upgrade :) [13:29] OK :) [13:29] amitk: (I'm happy to sponsor you BTW) [13:30] amitk, pfft, CDs are so last year ... they should switch to USB too [13:30] lool: I am working as fast as I can. I will have an estimate for you later today. 2.6.26->2.6.27 is a big change and all lpia patches might not apply right away [13:31] amitk, thanks for update [13:31] amitk: Ack; I also expected you might be working on other tasks too [13:31] s/be working on/be busy with non-lpia [13:31] persia, had you finished with your status? [13:31] Yes :) [13:31] lool: yeah... re-inheritance of the lpia tree intrerupted my work schedule a bit. But I hope to have it all sorted soon [13:32] amitk, thanks for picking it up again, it's critical for us. [13:32] lool, status? [13:32] Status is working on many FF tasks which we missed [13:33] Things I really want to push soon are elisa 0.5.x packages, cheese 2.23/2.24 packages [13:33] I need to continue work on modest [13:33] Finishing the xulrunner bits and the mbf move to xul 1.9 is also high on my list [13:34] apart of that, continue helping around and tracking image and installer status [13:34] It looks like I will have some internal and hardy/intel work this week as well [13:34] That's about all I want to report [13:34] lool, thanks [13:34] Oh and I spent too much time on awkful desktop upload this week [13:35] ogra, status? [13:35] * wrote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageModification (which nicely gave a good pointer to solutions for the aufs bug :) ) [13:35] * cmpc packages (cheese/gstreamer) for bug #258110 fixed, tested and uploaded to hardy-proposed (sitting in SRU process now) [13:35] * netbook apps are sitting in NEW modulo launcher, bug #263493 should be closed tomorrow if the launcher was uploaded with new name [13:35] * lagging on bug #261873, will try to attack that on the weekend, though there are working .fdi files attached to make i.e. the Q1 work [13:35] * lagging on testing of alternative IM clients (even though empathy is good imho i havent tested it enough yet, especially wrt hildon) [13:35] Launchpad bug 258110 in cmpc "Camera application cannot record video" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258110 [13:35] * bought a new car and claimed my driver license back (lost that 2 years ago and didnt feel the need to get it back until now) :) [13:35] Launchpad bug 263493 in ubuntu "Please package applications from netbook-remix" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263493 [13:35] Launchpad bug 261873 in xf86-input-evtouch "make evtouch devices work with hal-input in intrepid" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261873 [13:36] thats all :) [13:36] only? ;-) [13:36] :-) [13:36] ogra: Done for cmpc now? [13:36] ogra, once the packages are uploaded cmpc is complete? [13:36] oh, and thanks a lot for testing the script from the howto to everyone [13:37] davidm, lool once packages are moved to hardy-updates and i did a final image it will be done [13:37] Good to read [13:37] they are stuck in the hardy SRU process now [13:37] ogra: Any other planned maintenance? [13:37] OK, the next topic is not complete but I'll list it anyway [13:38] only if we get kernel updates after that [13:38] ogra: I understand you might need to reroll images with security / stable updates from time to time? [13:38] Ok; only kernel [13:38] until 8.04.2 where the kernel will have the patches included [13:38] right [13:38] davidm: [topic] choice of mail client modest versus thunderbird [13:38] [topic] Switch claws with modest libwpeditor/libwpeditor-plus? [13:38] New Topic: Switch claws with modest libwpeditor/libwpeditor-plus? [13:38] Hmm too late [13:39] which really should be what you said [13:39] davidm: So it should really be moving from claws to modest or to thunderbird [13:39] nothing on this so new topic [13:39] As I reported earlier, no progress on fixing the annoying modest issues; cgregan reported he wants to test modest [13:39] someone should test TB on 800x480 though [13:39] [topic] choice of mail client modest versus thunderbird [13:39] New Topic: choice of mail client modest versus thunderbird [13:39] I think cgregan now has target images which at least give an idea of screen size and have hildonized bits in them [13:39] So, who's tried either of them on the daily images? [13:39] i tested it on 1024x600 where it works fine ... but i dont know if anyone tried on the small res. [13:40] lool: I do [13:40] ogra: Thanks for testing [13:41] I think we have still too little testing data and too many modest bugs to take a decision, so let's keep carrying this over as a reminder that we should do more testing and that I should fix modest [13:41] cgregan, any chance you can have a look at TB (on a small screen) and let us know how it looks? [13:41] davidm: How small? [13:41] 800x480 if possible? [13:42] cgregan: Target are MID sizes, lowest being 800x480 or so [13:42] davidm: Hmm....I can see if the Jax will take the current image [13:42] cgregan, thanks [13:42] np [13:43] [action] cgregan will try to test ThunderBird on 800x480 screen size and report findings. [13:43] ACTION received: cgregan will try to test ThunderBird on 800x480 screen size and report findings. [13:43] [action] choice of mail client modest versus thunderbird (carried over) [13:43] ACTION received: choice of mail client modest versus thunderbird (carried over) [13:44] [topic] Touchscreen issues (StevenK) [13:44] New Topic: Touchscreen issues (StevenK) [13:44] ogra was looking into evtouch stuff, notably calibration [13:44] StevenK: You meant to discuss the evtouch/q1u touchscreen? [13:44] well, enablement actually for now [13:44] calibration is the second step ... [13:45] ut as i said above, the bug has a .fdi file attached that makes it work fine on the Q1 [13:45] I meant to kick ogra into fixing it [13:45] :-) [13:45] just copy that to /etc/hal/fdi/policy/10-touchscreen or some similar name [13:45] it will work [13:46] i'm looking for something saner for calibration though that doesnt hardcode the values in the .fdi [13:46] Ok [13:46] but as a quicfix the .fdi will do [13:46] ogra: You continue to chase this support? [13:46] yes [13:46] Cool [13:46] its a personal quest :) [13:47] if you run into touchscreens anywhere, please send xorg.conf from hardy and lshal to me ot attach to the bug [13:47] [action] ogra to continue to chase support of Q1 touchscreen [13:47] ACTION received: ogra to continue to chase support of Q1 touchscreen [13:47] [topic] Instant messaging client [13:47] New Topic: Instant messaging client [13:47] * ogra sighs ... [13:48] Ogra reported on this earlier [13:48] * ogra hasn used any IM for years ... its hard for me to judge that at all beyond things like usability [13:48] StevenK: Wanted to ask ogra for testing status or had more comments to make? [13:48] ogra: You're using IM right now! :) [13:48] no i use an IRC client for IRC :) [13:48] IRC is not the standard IM paradigm. [13:49] IRC predates any IM :) [13:49] No. There was talk before there was IRC. [13:49] but wasnt called IM [13:49] * persia quibbles and subsiders [13:49] s/r/ [13:49] Ok, I was just kidding and didn't want to bring us back to memories of stone age [13:50] StevenK: Anything you wanted to add on choice of IM? [13:50] * cgregan send lool a message by smoke signal [13:50] * ogra beats the drums ... DO YOU HEAR ME IN .FR ? [13:50] lool: Anything but pidgin-maemo [13:50] * lool opens the window and moves the semaphore and confirms with a pidgeon [13:50] lol [13:50] err pigeon [13:50] 10 minute warning [13:51] Right. Next topic? [13:51] persia: What next topic? [13:51] yes, but we are out of topics [13:51] OK. Anyone have any last minute topics they want to mention? [13:51] So the floor is open [13:51] * lool falls in the cracks of the open floor [13:52] I'd like people to write questions in the wiki FAQ sections. I'll answer them, but I suspect I'll be out of questions to ask my Saturday or so, and suspect there are more that couple be answered. [13:52] * davidm pulls lool out of the crack in the open floor ;-) [13:52] * Hobbsee seals the floor [13:52] phew [13:52] silly lool. [13:52] * lool can't walk with his broken leg [13:52] * ogra feels safe again [13:52] Excellent. lool will now be stuck in front of the computer :) [13:52] Ok; thanks everybody for attending! [13:52] * Hobbsee makes the roof fall in on ogra [13:53] eeek [13:53] * ogra covers under the meeting desk [13:53] OK if there is nothing else I'll close the meeting early [13:53] davidm: thanks for chairing [13:53] * Hobbsee sets the desks on fire [13:53] enough ! [13:53] :) [13:53] :) [13:53] * persia gives Hobbsee a stick and a sheet of instructions ... [13:54] #endmeeting [13:54] Meeting finished at 07:54. [13:54] * cgregan wonders if there is something strange in the air over europe [13:54] persia: is it a pointy stick? [13:54] cgregan: no its just Hobbsee [13:54] cgregan: It's not just Europe. [13:54] Now the question is, when will the mootbot logs become available [13:54] Hobbsee: Indeed. The one you appear to have lost. [13:54] persia: my Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!™ is unlosable. [13:55] * mvo looks around [13:55] cgregan: i'm not european :) [13:55] davidm, ask Seeker` [13:55] hi [13:55] * cgregan closes window [13:55] :-) [13:55] davidm, he's the one who fixed it :) [13:55] ogra, I will, it has been taking 1 -2 weeks [13:55] I hope it's sooner then that. [13:55] hi [13:55] he said we should ping him more agressively [13:55] * persia points out that the next meeting is starting, and there is a perfectly good #ubuntu-offtopic channel [13:56] persia, we still have it for four mins :P [13:56] * persia isn't that greedy [13:56] -offtopic tends to be a madhouse, anyway. [13:57] hi [13:57] hi seb128, Hobbsee [13:57] hey MacSlow [13:57] * Hobbsee greets seb128 and MacSlow with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!™ [13:57] hello! [13:58] hey mvo [13:58] hey MacSlow! [13:58] hi mvo, hello pitti! [13:59] Anyone seen Ken or Ted today? [13:59] did you check the basement? [13:59] nope [13:59] hi kwwii [14:00] Ahoy hoy [14:00] hey mpt [14:00] hey hey [14:00] howdy [14:00] * mvo waves to mpt [14:00] ok, let's get started without Ted [14:00] yo pedro_ [14:00] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-09-04 [14:00] one thing we should add to the list is the human theme bug [14:00] the only agenda item I saw was from Ted, sadly [14:00] kwwii: you'd like that to be an agenda item? [14:00] Keybuk: yes, please [14:00] ok [14:01] first up, outstanding actions [14:01] last meeting as a few weeks ago, so hopefully these are all sorted and not forgotten about ;-) [14:01] * Riddell to follow up on MIR bug for libzip to remind pitti. [14:01] Keybuk, if you want you can add my "issues" with dbus, ck and XDG_SESSION_COOKIE [14:01] I processed almost all MIR bugs yesterday and today (three outstanding only), libzip isn't on the list any more [14:01] *cough* sorry, I have only talked informally on irc about the package-failure, not sent a mail it :/ [14:02] pitti: ok, we'll mark that as resolved then [14:02] mvo: ok, I'll carry that over to the next meeting then [14:02] thanks [14:02] * seb128 to discuss MIR, seed changes and CD size implications with doko. [14:03] Keybuk: it's in main now, but I didn't see any bug followup [14:04] seb128: ? === asac_ is now known as asac [14:05] I guess seb128 has fallen off the net [14:05] hey tedg [14:05] kwwii: Human Theme Bug ? [14:05] Hey guys, sorry I'm late. [14:05] well, there is a bug in the human theme, what makes it hard to test is the difference between upgrades and new installs [14:06] so what I would like to know is who can I bother about my packaging skills [14:06] what's the bug# ? [14:06] I have questions from time to time and I basically need to know who will help me...waiting for someone in chat is crazy and wastes time [14:06] let me find it [14:06] re [14:06] my connection to this IRC timeouted apparently [14:06] https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/256972 [14:06] Launchpad bug 256972 in human-theme "original Human theme is broken" [Undecided,New] [14:06] kwwii: mvo, pitti, any of your team mates, really? [14:07] well, I don't want to start going through a list of people [14:07] it's a milestoned bug, so it's clearly important for the release [14:07] I can understand that it is annoying when I ask questions again and again and people are busy [14:07] kwwii: sending me mail or pinging me on IRC usually works fine [14:07] (though it needs an Importance) [14:08] kwwii: if you can't get hold of someone, talk to pitti who'll be able to help [14:08] pitti: right, I just thought you were too important [14:08] :-) [14:08] either himself, or by assigning someone to do it [14:08] ok, cool [14:08] lol [14:08] there will be a new theme package from community stuff [14:08] I have it in my ppa now and once mark ok's the themes it will need to go in intrepid as well [14:09] pitti: as Technical Lead, don't be shy about delegating to someone else [14:09] especially if it's a release affecting bug [14:10] seb128: before you dropped off, there was an outstanding action for you from last meeting [14:10] * seb128 to discuss MIR, seed changes and CD size implications with doko. [14:11] doko and pitti were on holidays so nobody to talked too [14:12] mpt wrote a nice document too and suggested delaying the switch until next cycle [14:12] seb128_: waiting for something in particular? as I said, I spent yesterday and today with processing almost all MIRs [14:12] I tend to agree with him now, it still lacks some feature, we have lot of other things to do and it's late for MIRs, CD space changes, etc [14:13] pitti: that's was for the telepathy stack [14:13] ah, ok, this ends up being the same agenda item as Ted's :) [14:13] oh, empathy [14:13] tedg: that answers your final decision question? [14:13] ok, so empathy -> intrepid+1 first day? [14:14] pitti: what I would suggest yes [14:14] Heh, sounds like it. Can we just change the ISO standard for CD size? ;) [14:14] it still lacks feature and will require some work and everybody is already overworked [14:14] pidgin will do and users like it so it's not an issue [14:15] ok, cool [14:15] It would be nice when we ship Empathy that the A/V features were rock solid so that it's an easy sell. [14:15] that is 4 less icons for me to make :-) [14:15] MacSlow has been having problems with XDG_SESSION_COOKIE and has asked to discuss them here [14:15] MacSlow: could you briefly outline the problem, and who you've talked to about it so far? [14:15] I don't think it's a meeting topic [14:15] no, we discussed this at lenght in email already [14:15] something for #ubuntu-devel IMHO [14:15] should rather be discussed on #ubuntu-desktop or #ubuntu-devel at any time during the day [14:15] it seems that MacSlow's dbus installation is really hosed somehow [14:15] I'm ok with that. [14:16] MacSlow: Is that problem coming from the new GDM? [14:16] ok, MacSlow: please take to the other channels [14:16] I mean the place for disussion [14:16] all your co-workers are back from leave [14:16] MacSlow: after the meeting, #u-desktop? [14:16] pitti, ok [14:16] tedg: yes, it's gdm [14:16] tedg, yeah gory [14:17] Keybuk: Are we inviting GDM folks to UDS? It seems like a good UDS session. [14:17] Jon and Ray would be cool to have [14:17] tedg: we're doing UDS differently again, information will be out on Monday [14:17] http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/ [14:17] Sponsoring Queue [14:17] speaking about gdm would be nice if you guys who are working on it could update the launchpad bzr to have current snapshots [14:18] nobody touched it since I pushed that during the distro sprint === seb128_ is now known as seb128 [14:18] seb128_, you mean just package the current upstream?! [14:18] seb128: bug #263799 [14:18] Launchpad bug 263799 in gnome-themes "Please sponsor gnome-themes 2.23.91 (main) into Intrepid" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263799 [14:18] I mean get the bzr and rebase it on the current bzr gnome mirror [14:18] seb128, ah ok [14:19] Keybuk: it was pending changes from the contributor until yesterday and archive is frozen [14:19] updating the gnome-themes package would be nice [14:19] Keybuk: I'll upload after the freeze [14:19] MacSlow: I'm not sure if it got merged in, but I had a small init change in my GDM branch. (if you're going to merge everything) [14:19] ok [14:20] Riddell: #263082 [14:20] Riddell: bug #263082 [14:20] Launchpad bug 263082 in libqalculate "Spelling mistakes in currency menu" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263082 [14:20] not looked at them yet [14:20] can do once alpha is out [14:20] it's going to be a new requirement that each team member spend an hour a week doing sponsorship [14:20] tedg, I will see when I do that [14:21] (the e-mail is somewhere between dholbach and mdz right now) [14:21] so please do find the time this week where possible, even if you just queue it for after the freeze [14:21] pitti: bug #257313 [14:21] Launchpad bug 257313 in abiword "abiword 2.6.4 homepage field / watch file" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/257313 [14:22] Keybuk: good decision ;-) [14:22] Keybuk: I commented on that; this small patch alone doesn't really warrant an upload IMHO, so I wanted to wait until some actual fixed piled up [14:23] pitti: unsubscribe the sponsor team [14:23] pitti: unsubscribe the sponsor tema [14:23] ;-) [14:23] it's reported to Debian, too [14:23] ok [14:23] things in the list should be either doable immediately after a review [14:24] or, if they are not, comment on the bug to explain the problem and unsubscribe the team to remove them from the list [14:24] seb128: bug #249582 [14:24] Launchpad bug 249582 in gtksourceview2 "Highlighting for `popd` in sh.lang misspelled as `podp`" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/249582 [14:24] Keybuk: uploaded during this meeting already, that was from this morning [14:24] Riddell: #248792 [14:24] seb128: :-) [14:24] Riddell: bug #248792 [14:24] Launchpad bug 248792 in kdenetwork "Binary package knewsticker should be renamed to plasmoid-knewsticker" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/248792 [14:25] hmm will discuss with debian [14:25] Riddell: if it requires discussion, the sponsorship team should be unsubscribed [14:25] since it's not a trivial request [14:26] ok [14:26] seb128: bug #234754 [14:26] Launchpad bug 234754 in rhythmbox "Launcher icon is fuzzy" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/234754 [14:26] Keybuk: I'll unsubscribe the team from this one now, not happy about the change [14:27] ok [14:27] seems like we have these bugs every release [14:27] (and yes, I'm doing mine as I go down the list too :p) [14:27] ;-) [14:27] seb128: bug #153526 [14:27] Launchpad bug 153526 in xchat-gnome "segmentation fault when set as away by GUI" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153526 [14:28] will look at this one [14:28] I've already sponsored like 10 uploads yesterday, would be nice to share the load a bit too [14:28] mvo: bug #146979 [14:28] Launchpad bug 146979 in software-properties "Substandard .desktop file (patch against bzr attached)" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/146979 [14:28] seb128: don't be afraid to reassign to other people on the team [14:28] Keybuk: thanks [14:29] if you want someone more authorative to do it, ask pitti who can do so as the Technical Lead [14:29] Keybuk: will upload it after the freeze is over [14:29] mvo: bug # [14:29] mvo: bug #56792 [14:29] Launchpad bug 56792 in apt "String consisting entirely of variables has no translation hint" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56792 [14:31] * mvo looks [14:33] ... [14:34] ok, pushing on [14:34] as the Technical Lead, one of Martin's responsibilities is to keep track of the release status of the team [14:34] in particular, those bugs or features assigned to the team or which should be assigned to the team [14:34] but also our general realease ability [14:35] so he gets a regular slot in this meeting to find out about problems, and ask for updates [14:35] pitti: over to you [14:35] seb128: are there still things to be done for the spellcheck cleanup? [14:36] pitti: yes, ArneGoetje still need to change the hunspell dictionnaries depends [14:36] I processed the MIRs yesterday, so they can go; ok, will ask him [14:37] seb128: also, I think better-login-speed and intrepid-menus-review could need a whiteboard update [14:37] also the hunspell dictionnaries conflicts on thunderbird which we want to fix [14:37] they are still 'started', they should be further than that or deferred [14:37] pitti: right, will do that today [14:37] seb128: how are the individual pieces of those two specs proceeding? [14:37] seb128: I don't think a lot has happened to those yet, right? [14:38] no [14:38] the menu changes are trivial for the most part and I wanted to do that after the GNOME update but it took a bit longer than planned, will do that today or tomorrow [14:38] mvo: intrepid-desktop-systemprefs> I acked the MIR, it's in main; is the PPA patch for g-c-c in intrepid now? [14:39] the login speed we got the gnome-session which start things in order but that's about it [14:39] pitti: yes, it is in intrepid now, but mpt had some UI suggestions that needs to be included [14:40] mvo: do you reckon the global keyboard setting will make intrepid? [14:40] spec says it's not done yet, and you are still discussing with arne [14:40] seb128: ok, thanks; updating the whiteboard for the remaining TODOs would be appreciated [14:41] pitti: it depends on how far we want to go. a debconf based one should be easy, a custom one is more difficult (and will not make it) [14:41] mvo: debconf? in language selector? [14:41] I didn't realize there was already a spec for that (mine's at ) [14:41] anyway, that's #u-devel material [14:42] pitti: the keyboard settings can be changed via the debconf console-setup package, so my first approach on this was to just use this [14:42] X picks that up nowdays [14:42] but if we want a better UI, then more work is required [14:42] mvo: ah, poke it into debconf and dpkg-reconfigure console-setup? [14:42] mvo: and take the value from the language selector UI? [14:42] yes [14:42] that was the plan [14:43] that WFM [14:43] as long as it doesn't actually need to spawn synaptic and the gtk debconf UI :) [14:43] Keybuk: ok, I'm done, thanks [14:44] ok, great [14:44] any other business? [14:45] adjourned then [14:45] thanks everyone [14:45] ok [14:45] thanks all [14:46] thanks [14:47] thanks === thekorn_ is now known as thekorn [15:00] Who's here for the Java meeting? [15:00] o/ [15:01] dalibor: slytherin: ? [15:02] * persia suspects this will be a short meeting. [15:02] Koon: Any progress to report? [15:03] I just uploaded a jpp-modified maven to the team PPA [15:03] and also submitted the corresponding packaging in the team BZR [15:04] Cool. That's the one that needed the .pom files to be added to each library, right? [15:04] yes. very very painful [15:04] \o/ [15:04] I've been trying to do a minimal helloworld build [15:04] we are missing the very basic blocks to make that happening. Like packaged basic maven-plugins [15:05] anyway, once it is built in the PPA, I'll post instructions on how to play with it [15:05] thanks, koon [15:05] it will involve installing the modified maven + copying a bunch of files from a tar.gz that provide what should have been provided by other packages [15:06] At that point running mvn compile I hit an error [15:06] Right. The maven-jpp-support stuff that we agreed we didn't want, but nobody came up with a better solution that wasn't incredibly painful. [15:06] exactly [15:06] I can tell creating the tar.gz with all the missing files was a very painful process. [15:07] Indeed. [15:07] the original maven-jpp in my ppa was not working at all [15:08] so I've been busy those last few days fixing it, the one in the PPA "works", meaning you can use it as the regular maven, it shouldn't break [15:08] s/the PPA/the team PPA/ [15:08] but like I said, I'm stuck with a "Unable to find the mojo"-style error [15:09] Instructions will be at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/MavenJppTesting whenever I confirm they are sufficient to reproduce [15:09] whcih should be anytime now [15:09] sorry I'm late, hasd a power outagethose last two hours [15:09] I intended to complete that by the meeting time :/ [15:10] No problem at all. It sounds like you've made great progress! [15:10] What do you need from others at this point? [15:10] I'd have preferred at least being able to run that basic "mvn compile" command :) [15:11] A maven/Java/plexus guy could review the error I get and give me pointers [15:11] or go further in the process and write on that same wiki page [15:11] I've forwarded the error to Deepak Bhole, who has been very helpful in the mvn-jpp fixing frenzy of those last days. [15:13] the idea is to describe how to reach the point where I stand right now in the quest to the debian-package-with-maven holy grail, so that others can progress in the quest themselves [15:14] Anyone able to help Koon in tracking down the error? [15:14] but I can already tell using mvn-jpp will be ugly. The only clean solution I see is to get rid of maven upstream. [15:14] Heh. [15:15] Do we know if affected upstreams can be built with ant? [15:16] persia: most of the time the upstream use a wacky maven-plugin to do something strange. To work around that, you basically have to rewrite what the plugin does. [15:17] Ah. Then not really something easily done at the packaging level. [15:17] we could work around maven using a maven converter, that would reuse some plugin code but get rid of the auto-updating pom stuff [15:18] I'm not sure trying to use maven directly is the right solution, in fact [15:19] beacsue you have to build an environment around it to make it believe it's connecting somewhere else to get its elements [15:19] (either using the JPP patchset or the proxy thing) [15:19] Anyone else have thoughts about this? [15:19] Can't we use a security manager to disable networking? [15:20] lool: We get that for free on the buildds, but it still tries to download, and the build will fail if it can't connect. [15:20] lool: what the JPP patchset does is disable networking, and making it fetch everything from file:// urls [15:21] +disable the freshness check on items + trying to map versions to the installed one [15:21] Sounds good [15:21] lool: that's the less worse, but it's still hackish and fragile [15:21] Can't we convince maven upstream to implement support for network less operation? [15:21] *networkless [15:22] dalibor: What do you think of the chances of that? [15:22] glassfish : missing deps - activation-rev, auto-depends, bnd, config, connector-api-alpha, dataprovider-sources, deployment-api-rev, doxia-modules, jakarta-regexp, jsf, kxml, lot of maven plugins, apache felix, eclipse persistence, osgi, phobos, different plexus plugins, stax, surefire, svnkit, wagon plugins. [15:22] hard - bascially - deepak tried that & failed. [15:22] two years ago. [15:22] He failed at the convincing or the implementation stage? [15:23] (to get his oatch in) [15:23] the upstream felt that the current mode was ok as it was [15:23] lool: one problem is that maven relies on POM files to walk the dependency tree [15:23] and in the current mode, offlijne execution still implies that meven will go out on the network anyway. [15:23] I can hardly imagine that so many people would rely on a tool which needs network for all builds [15:24] yeah, well ... it basically works like this [15:24] regular java developers use operating systems that dopn't have package managers [15:24] so for them maven#s ability to just fetch dependencies from somewhere is great [15:24] Lack of integration with packaging I can understand, but network access? [15:24] since it means they don't have to check those jars in anymore. [15:24] ahem. [15:25] Like all these opensource java developper stop building when they are in a plane? [15:25] after a couple of weeks spent migrating to maven they discover it's not so simple , actually, but then life is too short to go back ;) [15:25] haha [15:25] so what people end up using are maven archive managers [15:26] Ok; I have some vague memories that one could point maven 1 at a preferred repositories to grab deps from, but I don't know whether it was possible to configure it for a file:// local rpeo [15:26] which are basically maven repo mirroring tools + proxies. [15:26] even with maven out of the way, the effort necessary to package all JARs for something like glassfish or geronimo is huge. With maven, it's close to "not worth it". [15:27] which is funny enough what a nuch of maven related companies sell ;) [15:27] and maven migration consulting services ;) [15:28] Are these jars mostly in the archive but not accessible to maven, or mostly not? [15:28] it's a bit like migrating to linux - you know it is supposed to work like a charm, but your wirelss card is still not working ;) [15:29] If the jars are in the archive, perhaps we can script extraction and pulling into an absolutely hideous maven-jars package which would work like ia32-libs -- while looking into making more of these maven accessible [15:29] persia: anyway, I'm testing my instructions right now, will post to ubuntu-java when I'm done, and do some advertising on #ubuntu-java [15:29] Koon: Sounds good. [15:29] If they are not, would it be possible to download the source code theoritically used to build the jars and stuff it alongside? [15:30] well, there is lies the rub [15:30] the maven archive actually contains no source code for the jars in there [15:30] Also, regarding the libraries and libraries and libraries problem: in hardy the NetBeans team spent a couple months identifying the 25 libraries they needed added or uploaded, and made it in. It's a heap of work, but it's possible. [15:30] (e.g. debian/rules download-deps would be run by the maintainer and would copy .jars and .tar.gz/.zips with source code to maven/deps/ and that would be used to build the package) [15:30] lool: Well there is one solution... === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Sep 20:00: MOTU | 08 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 09 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 10 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 10 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 12 Sep 15:00: Ubuntu Release [15:31] dalibor: Isn't it contradictory to the distribution requirements of these projects? [15:31] lool: 1/compile the project with maven [15:31] 2/ save the resulting .m2 repository [15:31] only for the GPLd ones ;) [15:31] 3/ replace all jars with links to the system-installed ones [15:32] dalibor: I hoped that if they need to provide it for GPL projects they could organize to provide it all the time :-/ [15:32] 4/ package that huge thing together with your sources [15:32] 5/run a modified maven that just does not do the freshness check [15:32] lool: well, I had that dcisussion with the nmavenproject lead back in 2003, or so, and was told to sod off, so ... ymmv ;) [15:32] ugly but easier. [15:32] Koon: What you describe sounds doable and I don't see big issues [15:33] i think the repository posicy ended up being 'avoid GPLd projects' instead of 'let's just ship the source code' [15:33] lool: i'll describe that as an implementation alternative [15:33] lool: it's also a more manageable patch than the jpp patchset [15:33] OK. It sounds like we've got more proposals. Let's get those on the spec, and discuss in the IRC channel and on the mailing list. [15:34] We can implement as many as we like, and decide which is good as soon as we have one that works. [15:34] Next topic: [15:34] lool: and one that could make its way upstream (-Donly_use_current_artifacts) [15:34] dalibor: Where are we in terms of task definition for the server stack? [15:34] i've compiled a lit of missing stuff in the repos, posted further up. [15:35] (for glassfish) [15:35] it boils down to [15:35] a) more maven stuff (i.e. plugins, plugins, plugins) [15:35] b) more plexus stuff [15:35] c) more of doxia [15:35] d) more of wagon [15:36] e) an osgi implementation (i.e. apache felix) [15:36] Are plexus, doxia, or wagon likely to cause any of the issues that we've seen with maven, or are they mostly just library packaging? [15:36] f) along with flexus, bnd [15:36] g) phobos [15:37] h) eclipse persistence [15:37] i) surefire [15:37] j) svnkit [15:37] k) small stuff. ;9 [15:38] Er, Ah. [15:38] plexus, doxia & wagon are all basically maven related [15:38] So it's actually on the order of 20-30 new packages we need, at least? [15:39] doxia is a documentation generation kit [15:39] there is a package for it, but it doesn't have all the doxia modules necessary for glassfish [15:40] plexus is an IoC ontainer, there is a package for it, same as above [15:40] wagon is a transport layer for maven, same as above [15:41] i'd guess 20-30 would capture that, yeah, though they are all libraries (likely using maven to build), rather then projects requiring a massive effort to integrate into a distribution. [15:43] That's a lot. I suspect we'll need to get some help from Debian (unless we suddenly get lots more packaging volunteers) to get that within intrepid+1. [15:43] definitely. [15:43] Should be a little easier once squeeze opens. [15:43] though I hope a lot of it will just fall into place once maven-jpp works [15:43] I think a good start might be to identify which libraries can be built with the current stack, and start with a bunch of RFPs. [15:45] yeah [15:46] i'll post a full list to the wiki [15:46] dalibor: Could you maybe summarise the findings on a wiki page (unless I missed it before), and we can add it as a new item for someone to chase? [15:46] yep [15:46] Anyone up for a bunch of packaging? [15:48] OK. Maybe we can get some volunteers once the list is up. [15:48] svnkit should be easy to start with, it uses ant to build, for example. [15:48] Might also be a good idea to have a session at OpenWeek and encourage people to attack the list once we get a few more. [15:49] dalibor: What's next in the task definition plan? [15:49] breaking out the easy ones that we can package with ant / as is [15:49] So still glassfish? OK. [15:50] yeah, I'm sure I'll have my hands full with just its dependencies for now :/ [15:50] happy to delegate looking at other alternatives to any takers [15:50] No problems :) If you're running that, I wonder if we oughtn't change the roadmap item to "glassfish integration" or something, rather than task identification for the server stack in general. [15:51] works for me [15:51] OK. anything else? [15:53] nothing from me [15:53] OK. That concludes the agenda. Does anyone have any last minute items the'd like to mention or discuss? [15:53] nope [15:54] nope - i won't be around next week, though [15:54] Well, then. If nobody else has anything, I'd just like to say "Thank you" to dailbor for having dug through all the old meeting logs and brought the minutes up to date. [15:55] Thanks for coming today, and see most of you next week :) [15:56] thanks, I'll update the meetings again [15:57] eeeh ... minutes ;) [15:59] Thank you dalibor [15:59] thanks for chairing the meetings, persia and see you in two weeks ;) === mc44_ is now known as mc44 [17:13] @now [17:13] Error: Please don't use @schedule during a meeting [17:28] @now rome [17:28] Error: Please don't use @schedule during a meeting [17:53] stdin: Any ideas why ubottu thinks there's a meeting on? [17:53] @reload Webcal [17:53] The operation succeeded. [17:53] @now [17:53] Error: Please don't use @schedule during a meeting [17:54] * stdin sighs [17:59] @reload Webcal [17:59] The operation succeeded. [17:59] @now [17:59] Current time in Etc/UTC: September 04 2008, 16:59:26 - Next meeting: MOTU in 1 day [17:59] @schedule [17:59] Schedule for Etc/UTC: 05 Sep 20:00: MOTU | 08 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 09 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 10 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 10 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 12 Sep 15:00: Ubuntu Release [18:01] That's looking much better, except it's missing at least three meetings scheduled for the 11th. [18:01] Is it pulling from fridge/events still, or the google calendar? [18:01] the google one [18:02] the bot has trouble with recurring events though [18:04] Oh, and I scheduled the Thursday meetings as recurring events. I thought the trouble was with the fridge, rather than the bot. [18:04] Should I ask the news team to reschedule them as one-time meetings, or is that likely to be resolved soon enough it's not worth it? [18:05] I've been trying to get it to work for months :p [18:06] there is no standard way to parse ICal in python it seems, and any third-party modules do not handle events in a usable way [18:09] Lovely. [18:09] Do you need help? [18:09] I can always use help :) [18:10] OK. I'll call for help in #ubuntu-motu. No idea if anyone will have an idea, but sometimes people are bored. [18:16] stdin: https://code.launchpad.net/~tsimpson/ubuntu-bots/tweak is the branch ubottu is running, right? [18:17] persia: no, I haven't committed all the changes to the branch yet. http://jussi01.com/stdin/webcal-plugin.tar.gz is the current code [18:18] stdin: Any chance you could commit them somewhere? I could pass people the url to the tar.gz, but I'd imagine you'd prefer a branch merge request to just patch files. [18:20] (especially if several people respond) [18:24] persia: https://code.launchpad.net/~tsimpson/+junk/Webcal (when it appears) [18:24] stdin: I'll list that URL then. Thanks. === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Sep 20:00: MOTU | 08 Sep 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 09 Sep 15:00: Server Team | 10 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 10 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 11 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team === jussi01_ is now known as jussi01