[00:10] <emgent`nl> heya
[00:12] <nhandler> Hello emgent`nl
[03:05] <bddebian> Why the fsck can I not create an intrepid pbuilder from hardy?
[03:06] <lifeless> have you installed the backported pbuilder?
[03:06] <bddebian> Probably not.  Do I have to?
[03:06] <bddebian> I normally just copy the debootstrap scripts and modify them a little.
[03:06] <lifeless> yes, hardies pbuilder is frozen before intrepid exists
[03:07] <lifeless> well, there are a bunch of deps of debootstrap - any of them being outdated can cause an error
[03:07] <bddebian> Hmm, never done it before between releases.
[03:07] <bddebian> persia: Guess I can't help ya. ;-P
[03:12] <bddebian> Hardy-backports doesn't pick up any newer version
[03:15] <lifeless> well, if the deps are up to date, it might just be something anomalous
[03:17] <persia> bddebian: There's an updated debootstrap in backports.
[03:18] <persia> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/d/debootstrap/ : look for ~hardy1
[03:18] <persia> If that doesn't work, 1.0.10 can be backported (and maybe should be, considering DeveloperWeek)
[03:20] <bddebian> fricking thing is downloading alien-arena-data at the moment :(
[03:25] <persia> bddebian: Which debootstrap do you have installed?
[03:27] <bddebian> 1.0.8
[03:27] <persia> What arch do you have?
[03:27] <bddebian> i386
[03:27] <persia> Actually, doesn't even matter.  Grab http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/d/debootstrap/debootstrap_1.0.9~hardy1_all.deb
[03:28] <persia> If that doesn't work, complain, and 1.0.10 can be backported..  Just grab http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/d/debootstrap/debootstrap_1.0.10.dsc and recompile under hardy.
[03:32] <persia> lifeless: The main issue with debootstrap 1.0.8 is that the release "intrepid" is entirely unknown, rather than dependencies, etc.
[03:32] <bddebian> persia: Aye, which is why I usually just copy and modify
[03:32] <NCommander> persia, I "worked" around the issue by just copying the hardy script to intrepid
[03:32] <NCommander> or just install the old release, and then upgrade it
[03:33] <persia> NCommander: remember, an upgrade (even with do-release-upgrade) doesn't leave the system in the same state as an install.
[03:34] <lifeless> persia: you can use the result though to do a clean debootstrap :P
[03:34] <persia> bddebian: As NCommander points out, it's always possible to create a hardy chroot, log in, and upgrade it.  Not 100% clean, but likely fine for most build tests.
[03:34] <persia> lifeless: Indeed :)
[03:35] <NCommander> persia, you going to be around for a little bit
[03:35] <persia> Actually, one can probably do pbuilder --login (which doesn't save by default), upgrade, create a new pbuilder chroot, save that, and then throw away the dirty upgrade.
[03:36] <persia> NCommander: For a while, I expect.
[03:45]  * NCommander loads a trap with ScottK bait
[03:45] <bddebian> Heh
[03:46] <NCommander> Shhh, I'm hunting Kitterman's
[03:47] <StevenK> Be wevy wevy qwiet?
[03:47] <NCommander> Yup, its ScottK season
[03:48] <NCommander> hehehehhee
[03:49] <StevenK> ITYM Elmer
[03:50] <NCommander> I best kill this joke right now, or else its going to get into a GPL/LGPL season joke
[03:50] <bddebian> heh
[03:50] <bddebian> Its BSD season!
[03:50] <NCommander> Netcraft confirms it! BSD is Dead!
[03:50] <bddebian> heh
[03:51] <NCommander> !meme
[03:51] <NCommander> I was expecting something about overused poorly written memes :-/
[03:51] <NCommander> ubottu needs an upgrade
[03:51] <NCommander> Or an AI
[03:52] <StevenK> NCommander: http://www.google.com/intl/xx-elmer/
[03:52] <NCommander> o_o;
[03:53] <NCommander> Well, if that isn't fud, I don't know what is :-)
[03:53]  * NCommander is enjoying these bad puns
[03:53] <StevenK> Booo, hiss!
[03:54] <NCommander> #ubuntu-fudd - when Ubuntu and Looney Toons cross :-)
[03:55]  * StevenK looks for NCommander's latitude and longitude for an ICBM
[03:55] <NCommander> StevenK, they say the brilliant are insane. Maybe the inverse is true.
[03:56] <NCommander> Since I'm insane, maybe I can back into brilliance
[03:56] <bddebian> Heh, let me know how that works out eh? :-)
[03:57] <NCommander> Well, lets put it another way. They say those who like pain are crazy.
[03:57] <NCommander> I like to program in x86 real mode ASM (ah, the DOS days)
[03:57] <NCommander> Thus I like pain, and those who like pain are crazy
[03:57] <NCommander> Thus I'm crazy
[03:57] <NCommander> QED
[04:07] <NCommander> .... you know, I have that scary thought those last five lines of IRC transcript are going to be (b)logged somewhere, and come back to hurt me when I apply for a tech job
[04:09] <bddebian> heh
[04:12]  * ajmitch wanders over to bash.org
[04:16] <coppro> bash is back up?
[04:16] <coppro> sweet!
[04:16] <coppro> aw, nope :(
[04:17] <jdong> new azureus looks good.... less vuze junk comin soon :)
[04:21] <NCommander> Wooo, saved from being logged
[04:21] <bddebian> This is where pbuilder keeps choking: http://paste.debian.net/16359/
[04:23] <NCommander> bddebian, er, why don't you simply copy the hardy script to intrepid
[04:23] <NCommander> It works fine
[04:23] <NCommander> (you get an intrepid chroot)
[04:23] <bddebian> d00d, that is where I started from
[04:23] <NCommander> I never had any issues, I just did that yesterday on PowerPC
[04:24] <bddebian> Neither have I in the past
[04:32] <persia> bddebian: Try purging aptitude before upgrading.  aptitude isn't installed by default for intrepid.
[04:33] <persia> slangasek: Yes, libjna-java did get test built.  I don't know why it worked for me, and not in the archives yet.  I'll sort it.
[04:33] <slangasek> persia: possibly a -b test instead of a -B test?  anyway, cheers :)
[04:34] <persia> slangasek: sbuild -A -d intrepid amd64 foo.dsc is my usual means of testbuilding.
[04:34] <persia> Err intrepid.amd64
[04:36] <bddebian> persia: Purging it from where, the damn thing doesn't even exist yet?
[04:36] <persia> bddebian: Oh.  I thought you were upgrading from hardy.  If you're creating it from scratch, I'm not sure how it could get in a state to do that.
[04:37] <persia> Does debootstrap work by itself against some arbitrary directory?  Is this a pbuilder-specific issue?
[04:48] <mneptok> persia: ohaiyo
[04:50] <persia> mneptok: 今日は
[04:51] <mneptok> mmm! noodles!
[04:51] <mneptok> persia: how goes the struggle?
[04:52] <ajmitch> bddebian: using some odd pbuilderrc?
[04:53] <persia> mneptok: It rained.
[04:53] <mneptok> persia: i leave for Albuquerque tomorrow. feel free to tag along.
[04:53]  * ajmitch tries to setup an intrepid pbuilder on the laptop
[04:54] <persia> heh
[04:55]  * NCommander is bootstrapping Ubuntu from source from Gentoo
[04:55] <NCommander> We have officially left the horizon of sanity
[04:55] <ajmitch> begone, heathen
[04:56] <NCommander> ajmitch, I'm doing it from an amd64 gentoo box
[04:56] <NCommander> ;-)
[04:56] <bddebian> ajmitch: Same one I've been using since Dapper I think :)
[04:56] <ajmitch> bddebian: that may be an issue
[04:56] <ajmitch> The following NEW packages will be installed: aptitude binutils build-essential ccache cpp cpp-4.3 dpkg-dev g++ g++-4.3 gcc gcc-4.3 libc6-dev
[04:56] <ajmitch> ...
[04:56] <ajmitch> so something is dragging it in for me
[04:57] <ajmitch> bddebian: apart from that, it configured without any problems
[04:58] <persia> NCommander: You do know there are liveCDs, right?
[04:58] <NCommander> persia, not for what I'm doing
[04:59] <persia> NCommander: Yes.  That is *why* there are liveCDs :P
[05:00] <NCommander> I'm rebuilding the archive with the PIE flag done
[05:00] <NCommander> *on
[05:26] <Light-> Does MOTU only Ubuntu-ise Debian packages, or do they also make Ubuntu packages from source (in cases where there is no Debian version available to Ubuntu-ise)?
[05:28] <foxbuntu> Light-, MOTU, is package administrators developers submit code to revu for MOTUs to review its up to snuff
[05:30] <ScottK> Light-: We do both.  Generally we like to use the Debian packages unmodified and would prefer to pass fixes and improvements back to Debian.
[05:30] <Light-> so... MOTU's only review submitted packages?
[05:30] <Light-> ohk
[05:30] <ScottK> No, we also package stuff too.
[05:35] <persia> Light-: Essentially, MOTU are responsible for about 12,000 packages, so wherever we can find ways to reduce the workload, we tend to be in favour.  Getting packages into Debian, and getting bugfixes upstreams are two ways we do that.
[05:38] <Light-> When you speak of bugfixes... are you referring to bugs in the package and not in the program?
[05:39] <persia> Light-: Both.
[05:39] <persia> Where we can, we push package bugfixes to Debian (although there are a number of package bugfixes that are unique to Ubuntu), and we tend to push bugfixes for programs to both Debian and the program developers directly.
[05:40] <Light-> oh I see
[05:43] <persia> As long as we've not been successful in pushing the bugfixes upstream, we have to maintain the patches and port them to successive upstream releases, which is a lot of busywork, and does little to contribute to the overall quality of Ubuntu.
[05:43] <persia> (not merging is bad, but not having to merge is ideal)
[05:48] <ApOgEE-> hi all
[05:50] <cody-somerville> Hiya
[07:54] <AnAnt> doko: ping
[07:57] <dholbach> good morning
[08:04] <highvoltage> morning dholbach
[08:04] <highvoltage> how is udw going?
[08:04] <dholbach> highvoltage: very very well
[08:04] <dholbach> lots of clever people, lots of excitement, lots of energy, lots of fun :)
[08:04] <dholbach> I'm very excited
[08:04] <iulian> Morning
[08:04] <dholbach> hi iulian
[08:05] <dholbach> iulian: what happened to "Iulian"?
[08:05] <iulian> Hiya Daniel
[08:05] <iulian> dholbach: Changed it because people used to call me lulian ;)
[08:05] <dholbach> haha, ok :)
[08:14] <highvoltage> dholbach: excellent. I wish I could get involved, but I'm under a bit of strain at work this week
[08:14] <highvoltage> dholbach: I'm glad it's going good though, it means that it will probably happen again :)
[08:14] <dholbach> highvoltage: yeah, I'd think so :-)
[08:14] <dholbach> highvoltage: luckily the scribes team has put up logs of the sessions
[08:15] <highvoltage> cool.
[08:21] <NCommander> hey dholbach
[08:22] <geser> good morning
[08:22] <NCommander> hey geser
[08:22] <geser> Hi NCommander
[08:22] <NCommander> geser, how goes your  morning?
[08:22] <dholbach> hi NCommander, hi geser
[08:23]  * NCommander works on bootstrapping Ubuntu
[08:23] <gnomefreak> anyone know if we added/removed support for "intex rtl8139D" nic
[08:23] <geser> Hi dholbach
[08:23] <dholbach> gnomefreak: I'd ask in #ubuntu-kernel
[08:23]  * dholbach doesn't know
[08:24] <gnomefreak> thanks dholbach i was thinking about asking there but noone is talking so i figured id try here first
[08:25] <dholbach> gnomefreak: yeah... it might be that they're all asleep - did you try #ubuntu-devel?
[08:25] <gnomefreak> dholbach: no not yet
[08:25] <dholbach> ok
[09:07] <huats> morning everyone
[09:14] <didrocks> morning o/
[09:15] <huats> hey didrocks :)
[09:16] <didrocks> huats \o/
[10:02] <jpds> How does one easily rm .la files from debian/rules? (CDBS).
[10:06] <cody-somerville> find
[10:07] <jpds> But which make target? I've tried post-install::.
[10:21] <james_w> directhex: Hey. MIR is approved, do we sync now then?
[10:21] <directhex> james_w, unless you have any objections, i'd say definitely
[10:21] <james_w> directhex: cool, I'm away for the weekend, so it may be next week that I get to it.
[10:22] <directhex> as long as intrepid ships with a fully 1.9.1 stack, i'm not fussed about when precisely ;)
[11:05] <geser> I'm correct that requests for sponsoring a merge filed before FF now also need a FFe if they are for a new upstream version?
[11:17] <directhex> geser, i've been told both yes and no. YMMV.
[11:20] <DktrKranz> geser: new upstream version doesn't always mean a FFe is required. If sponsors think new upstream is only for bugfixes (and it's clearly so), they can proceed stating new upstream is for bugfix only.
[12:26] <cbx333> man I'm ticked off at #ubuntu
[12:28] <persia> cbx333: Then fix it :)
[12:28] <Pici> cbx333: Whats up?
[12:28] <cbx333> annoying zealots
[12:28] <cbx333> I was asking advice on my slow graphics response
[12:28] <cbx333> and was told that I was very slow, for not being able to grasp a simple question
[12:29] <highvoltage> cbx333: ouch
[12:29] <cbx333> yeh ouch indeed
[12:29] <cbx333> it's unacceptable
[12:29] <highvoltage> the person who did that should be reminded that the ubuntu CoC applies to the ubuntu irc channels
[12:29] <cbx333> this is for some people the first place they touch base
[12:29] <cbx333> indeed
[12:29] <Pici> cbx333: I just got on, but I see it in my logs here, we'll take care of it.
[12:29] <cbx333> I looked at the CoC
[12:29] <Pici> <- #ubuntu op
[12:29] <cbx333> Pici, thank you
[12:29] <cbx333> Pici, ok awesome
[12:30] <cbx333> As an ubuntu MOTU and a dev in the past....I was utterly insulted
[12:30] <cbx333> hey highvoltage....howz it going any how
[12:30] <highvoltage> cbx333: there is a small minority of people that make it unpleasant that constatnly have to be pruned back. I guess it's just the anture of things
[12:31] <highvoltage> cbx333: going well thanks. read your recent blog entries, glad to see that it's going good your side still
[12:31] <cbx333> Pici, also seek out "don't you get the point? or are you just being stubborn for the sake of it?"
[12:31] <cbx333> haha cool
[12:31] <persia> cbx333: You're *still* MOTU (for another three weeks or so, or if you renew)
[12:31] <cbx333> yeh things are going good
[12:31] <highvoltage> (and that you're managing giving atention to your kid)
[12:31] <cbx333> just don't have all the time to do all that I used to
[12:31] <ajmitch> cbx333: hey
[12:31] <Pici> cbx333: Things like this anger me quite a bit, don't worry, I'll get to the bottom of it.
[12:31] <cbx333> persia, I'd like to review
[12:31] <cbx333> thanks Pici
[12:32] <cbx333> hey ajmitch
[12:32] <cbx333> persia, think I'll be allowed?
[12:32] <persia> cbx333: You ought get the reminder mail in a week to 10 days.
[12:32] <cbx333> ok
[12:32] <cbx333> awesome
[12:32] <ajmitch> persia: I let my membership for that one lapse
[12:32] <cbx333> oh man I've missed it in here
[12:32] <ajmitch> heh
[12:32] <cbx333> so many friends that I don't have gmail accounts for :p
[12:32] <persia> cbx333: The practice has been to let people self-renew, and only ask for a declaration of intent if they miss the deadline.  No reason you're special in that regard.
[12:32] <cbx333> :)
[12:32] <ajmitch> of course he's special ;)
[12:32] <cbx333> cool cool
[12:33] <cbx333> ha ha
[12:33] <cbx333> so how are you ajmitch?
[12:33] <cbx333> man work is getting tough now
[12:33] <ajmitch> alright, busy enough
[12:33] <cbx333> got a week off
[12:33] <cbx333> phew
[12:33] <ajmitch> from the look of things, you're busy as well?
[12:33] <ajmitch> nice
[12:33] <cbx333> yeh man
[12:33] <cbx333> the company I went to work for got bought out by Atmel a while back
[12:33] <cbx333> so....I now work for Atmel
[12:33] <cbx333> as an IT manager
[12:34] <ajmitch> interesting
[12:34] <cbx333> which is ..... a lot of fun
[12:34] <persia> ajmitch: You're still Core Dev, but you're likely welcome back to MOTU fairly easily, by poking MC by mail (if you care).
[12:34] <cbx333> so howz Intrepid coming along?
[12:34] <ajmitch> persia: I renewed core dev last week, as it was my last hold on both upload rights & membership :)
[12:34] <ajmitch> so I can still upload to universe & main if needed
[12:35] <cbx333> I was after core dev...but never quite got there
[12:35] <cbx333> and now just wouldn't have the time
[12:36]  * ajmitch would be reluctant to dive back into uploading without a thorough review of what's changed
[12:36] <cbx333> totally
[12:37] <persia> Unfortunately, it's still true that nobody put that document together.
[12:37] <ajmitch> which one?
[12:37]  * ajmitch has been following the mailing lists, at least
[12:37] <persia> The "We're sorry life took you away, but here's what you need to get caught up and get uploading again" document.
[12:37] <cbx333> hehehe
[12:38] <cbx333> I'm just sorry I never managed to get Geyser off the ground
[12:38] <ajmitch> heh
[12:38] <cbx333> I really wanted to do that project
[12:38] <persia> I've seen requests for it since Dapper, but it's one of those things that never gets written.  I know I wanted to read it in feisty (as I missed edgy).
[12:38] <cbx333> are my sounds still in Intrepid?
[12:38]  * ajmitch has had to do some package mangling recently at work, setting up pbuilder again & backporting
[12:38] <cbx333> ouch
[12:39] <cbx333> Pici, are there any "official" support people
[12:39] <ajmitch> I was trying to backport stuff from lenny to etch, in the end gave up & upgraded the whole box to lenny :)
[12:39] <cbx333> hehe
[12:39] <ajmitch> had to backport subversion 1.5 to hardy for my personal use
[12:39] <persia> I thought a couple people already backported subversion 1.5
[12:40] <ajmitch> yeah, when I looked at the bug, ScottK said he just had to put a package together
[12:40] <ajmitch> the few changes were just java related
[12:44] <leleobhz> someone here can help-me to compile a very old program?
[12:45] <leleobhz> help page say it compile in kernel 2.0.x
[12:45] <cbx333> right I'm off
[12:45] <leleobhz> (but the programm dont use anything directly linked with kernel)
[12:45] <cbx333> thanks again Pici
[12:45] <Pici> cbx333: yep, cyas.
[12:45] <cbx333> really rubbed me up the wrong way today
[12:46] <directhex> leleobhz, for making an ubuntu package?
[12:46] <leleobhz> directhex: its a intent
[12:46] <leleobhz> but i cant even compile the application
[12:46] <directhex> what app?
[12:46] <leleobhz> directhex: http://www.sai.msu.su/sal/Z/3/WAVES+.html
[12:47] <persia> leleobhz: What errors do you get trying to build?
[12:47] <leleobhz> this app is now behind a BSD licence
[12:47] <directhex> HPC apps are, by and large, absolutely terrible
[12:47] <leleobhz> persia: a lot really.. let me see if ive saved the output here
[12:47] <directhex> i mean shockingly bad
[12:48] <directhex> also, i see no link to source. where is there source?
[12:48] <leleobhz> no... ive removed the file..
[12:48] <leleobhz> directhex: well, the original version is here: http://www.speech.kth.se/speech/esps/esps.zip
[12:49] <leleobhz> have another link from a modified install script
[12:49] <jmehdi> could someone review my package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=webstrict ?
[12:49] <directhex> sigh, no build system. i sorta expect it for scientific software these days
[12:49] <leleobhz> that "appear" to support fedora...
[12:50] <leleobhz> directhex: this app is *VERY* old
[12:50] <leleobhz> and unmantained since 2001 i think
[12:52] <leleobhz> directhex: this is the another link: http://ldc.upenn.edu/software/esps60.3.linmac.src.tgz
[12:52] <leleobhz> directhex: have some text about here: http://www.corpus4u.org/showthread.php?t=2454
[12:56] <leleobhz> directhex: ill compile again to get the erros
[12:56] <leleobhz> *errors
[12:59] <directhex> this is gonna take MAJOR hacking work in debian/rules
[12:59] <leleobhz> directhex: i need only to find a way to compile it in ubuntu
[12:59] <leleobhz> patches is another thing :]
[12:59] <directhex> there's a LOT of hard-coded nonsense
[13:00] <leleobhz> yeap
[13:02] <leleobhz> directhex: how can i redirect both stdout and stderr to a file?
[13:03] <directhex> 2>&1 > filename.foo
[13:03] <directhex> or, apparently, just &>
[13:06] <leleobhz> directhex: ill use fakeroot to run these scripts... i get a lot of file i can remove after try compile
[13:08] <leleobhz> directhex: im compiling in ubuntu and ill paste the errors when its done
[13:09] <leleobhz> but have a lot of:
[13:09] <leleobhz> lpcfloat.c: Na função ‘get_window’:
[13:09] <leleobhz> lpcfloat.c:112: aviso: incompatible implicit declaration of built-in function ‘malloc’
[13:09] <leleobhz> for example
[13:09] <directhex> never assume you're pasting the right thing
[13:09] <directhex> pastebin it all, or not at all
[13:11] <leleobhz> leleobhz@zorg:~/TRABALHO/DEVELOPMENT/SETFON/SVN/setfon/trunk/high_experimental/esps/ESPS/general$ ./ESPS_INSTALL &> /home/leleobhz/esps.err.inst
[13:11] <leleobhz> leleobhz@zorg:~/TRABALHO/DEVELOPMENT/SETFON/SVN/setfon/trunk/high_experimental/esps/ESPS/general$ ls -lah /home/leleobhz/esps.err.inst
[13:11] <leleobhz> -rw-r--r-- 1 leleobhz leleobhz 6,7M 2008-09-04 09:09 /home/leleobhz/esps.err.inst
[13:12] <leleobhz> 6.7M only for out & errors :]
[13:12] <leleobhz> directhex: can i paste it on filebin?
[13:12] <directhex> oh god. yeah, whatever
[13:13] <leleobhz> directhex: this is from ./SETUP: http://pastebin.com/f5c2034e7
[13:15] <leleobhz> directhex: http://filebin.ca/txbbtg/esps.err.inst
[13:23] <directhex> leleobhz, install flex-old
[14:12] <ScottK> Here's a thought: Now that clamav is in Main, deactivate myself from core-dev so I CAN'T maintain it anymore ...
[14:13] <laga> you could post patches and someone else will sponsor them
[14:20] <leleobhz> directhex: /usr/esps/include/xview/window.h:430: erro: expected declaration specifiers or ‘...’ before ‘XClientMessageEvent’
[14:20] <leleobhz> /usr/esps/include/xview/window.h:432: erro: expected ‘=’, ‘,’, ‘;’, ‘asm’ or ‘__attribute__’ before ‘win_pointer_under’
[14:21] <directhex> try using gcc-3.4 instead of 4.whatever?
[14:21] <leleobhz> ok
[14:25] <ScottK> laga: That's the flaw in my plan.
[14:25] <leleobhz> directhex: more erros
[14:25] <leleobhz> errors
[14:26] <directhex> you know this software is just badly written, yeah?
[14:26] <leleobhz> http://paste.milk-it.net/922
[14:27] <leleobhz> directhex: i think its too old to be built in newer compilation systems
[14:27] <leleobhz> anyway, the best alternative for this app really sucks more (and is the prefered)
[14:28] <directhex> that's with flex-old or flex?
[14:28] <leleobhz> felx-old
[14:28] <directhex> switch around which you use
[14:28] <leleobhz> err
[14:28] <leleobhz> leleobhz@zorg:~/TRABALHO/DEVELOPMENT/SETFON/SVN/setfon/trunk/high_experimental/esps/ESPS/general$ ls -lah /usr/bin/yacc /etc/alternatives/yacc
[14:28] <leleobhz> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 19 2008-08-29 16:35 /etc/alternatives/yacc -> /usr/bin/bison.yacc
[14:29] <leleobhz> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 22 2008-08-29 16:16 /usr/bin/yacc -> /etc/alternatives/yacc
[14:29] <directhex> right, so?
[14:29] <leleobhz> cannot be a bison problem?
[14:30] <directhex> maybe. but it might also be a flex problem
[14:30] <leleobhz> hmmm
[14:30] <directhex> and i've had more problems with flex breaking on different apps than bison, where both are used together
[14:30] <leleobhz> pi  flex                                       - A fast lexical analyzer generator.
[14:31] <leleobhz> iB  flex-old                                   - The old version of the fast lexical analyzer generato
[14:31] <leleobhz> directhex: hmmm
[15:08] <nxvl> uhgr my mouse is not automatically detected when i plug it
[15:16] <Mathiasdm> are there any guides for packaging java ant packages?
[15:33] <bddebian> Heya gang
[15:35] <geser> Hi bddebian
[15:36] <bddebian> Heya geser
[16:52] <sebner> ScottK: promoted to main \o/
[17:38] <liw> would anyone be interested in reviewing my two packages in REVU? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=python-fstab and http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=system-cleaner are the relevant pages; the python-fstab package is needed by the system-cleaner package
[17:38] <liw> the system-cleaner package will hopefully be a really cool tool for keeping a system clean from all sorts of cruft, even for people who keep upgrading them during development or from release to release
[17:39] <persia> liw: How does system-cleaner compare to the cruft utility?
[17:40] <liw> persia, it's not restricted to packages, for example it adds the "relatime" option to fstab; it also has a GUI
[17:42] <persia> Oh, so it keeps all the miscellaneous configuration changes up-to-date, even though it's not a fresh install?
[17:43] <liw> that's the idea, yes
[17:50]  * persia watches the joins/parts for a python packager who can check these packages, as they sound nifty
[17:51] <ScottK> liw: What's the compelling rationale for a Feature Freeze exception for Intrepid for this?
[17:51] <ScottK> There are lots of people who still want packages in, but it's generally too late.  Why should these be special?
[17:52] <sebner> persia: system cleaner O_o
[17:53] <liw> ScottK, that's a good question, I'm not sure I have an immediate answer, actually
[17:54] <liw> which means I suck, of course
[17:54] <ScottK> liw: Fair enough.  I suggest that's probably the first thing to get worked out.  Note you can't get an actual FFe until you have a reviewed package, but some early discussion with motu-release to see if it's worth doing now would probably be a good thing.
[17:54] <liw> however, a review would still be very much appreciated
[18:01] <NCommander> morning ScottK
[18:01] <sebner> liw: try to get it into Debian and with intrepid +1 we get it automatically
[18:03] <persia> sebner: Well, it's kinda Ubuntu-specific, no?  It cleans up leftover Ubuntu cruft.
[18:05] <ogra> liw, i thought relatime was hardcoded in kernel now ? why do you need it in fstab
[18:05] <liw> I'm going to upload it to Debian, too (obviously, since I'm a DD), but Debian is in hard freeze, and I'm not going to bother Debian with this until after they release lenny; however, it might be good for Ubuntu to get this into intrepid so that cruft build-up can be reduced from intrepid already, and not from intrepid+1
[18:05] <liw> ogra, is it? I didn't know that (and I would be surprised, since it changes filesystem semantics)
[18:06] <ogra> i see it all over my classmates where i use noatime in fstab by default ... so cat /proc/mounts looks a bit messy on them
[18:06] <sebner> persia: is it reallly useful or is like all the >1000 windows tools?
[18:06] <ogra> showing noatime,relatime
[18:06] <liw> ogra, hmm
[18:07] <persia> liw: It cleans all cruft, not just Ubuntu cruft?
[18:07] <ogra> but i see relatime in my fstab on the normal intrepid lappie ... not sure how it got there
[18:07] <ogra> and in /proc/mounts as well
[18:08] <liw> persia, it has a plugin arch, and when I upload it for Debian, it will handle Debian cruft as well as Ubuntu
[18:08] <liw> ogra, could it be specific to the lpia kernel?
[18:08] <persia> Ah.
[18:08] <ogra> liw, nope, celeron classmates here
[18:08] <ogra> not using lpia
[18:09] <liw> persia, however, certainly some of the tweaks are going to be system specific
[18:09] <persia> Obviously, as both the upgrade paths and specific cruft may differ.
[18:10] <ogra> but the kernel changelog doesnt talk about relatime so maybe i misremember
[18:10] <ogra> and mount only talks about having it added to the manpage n its changelog
[18:11]  * ogra quickly rushes to the shop ... forgot to buy catfood
[18:11] <laga> ah, another cat lover
[18:30] <kees> can a motu-council member please change the universe-contributors emblem to this one, which has transparency: http://outflux.net/wrench_emblem-trans.png
[18:31] <siretart> Lutin: could you please take a look at the mlt package? it currently FTBFS in intrepid, and it seems you touched the package last. I suspect that we need a new upstream version because of newer ffmpeg, but I'm not familiar with mlt at all
[18:33] <siretart> Lutin: same for kdenlive
[18:35] <Lutin> siretart: I know, and this is long overdue. however, I don't have the time needed to do that for the moment
[18:35] <persia> kees: Working on it.  Thanks for the submission.
[18:36] <Lutin> siretart: but I'd bet the FTBFS is related to missing headers // gcc-4.3
[18:37] <persia> kees: Does that look better to you?
[18:37] <siretart> Lutin: filed bug #264790 with full buildlog
[18:37] <siretart> and bug #264613 for mlt
[18:38] <Lutin> gcc-4.3-related for mlt
[18:39] <siretart> Lutin: there is a new upstream for this on debian-multimedia.org. I suspect that a merge would fix that
[18:40] <Lutin> I think so, but I fear I won't have much time
[18:40] <siretart> same here
[18:40] <siretart> anyone else willing to give it a shot? just grad the mentioned bugs!
[18:41] <sebner> siretart: just merging (though I won't have time until weekend)
[18:42] <siretart> sebner: I reckon that would be it. and I think it would fix a number of other bugs in launchpad with it
[18:43] <kees> persia: yea, that looks great, thanks!
[18:43] <sebner> siretart: kk, like I said. I'd do it but no before weekend :(
[18:43] <persia> kees: Now, how can you tell?  I don't see any difference on my user page.
[18:44] <kees> persia: when it's displayed on a non-white background (for example, with the greasemonkey script "karma_suffix"), it's very clear.
[18:44] <Lutin> sebner: mlt and mlt++ are both in debian now, you might want to have a look at it (and possibly ask fabo about it)
[18:45] <persia> Ah.  greasemonkey.
[18:45] <kees> persia: (yay bzr URLs) http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Egm-dev-launchpad/launchpad-gm-scripts/master/download/brian%40canonical.com-20080902180527-ailnday1yom5lppx/lp_karma_suffix.png-20080902174541-ccz35l22h5b1y54p-1/lp_karma_suffix.png?file_id=screenshots-20080902165617-0p38lk8fk43a7cxf-1
[18:46] <ScottK> NCommander: Heya.
[18:46] <sebner> siretart: Lutin : Wait! Are we talking about kdenlive or mlt? ^^
[18:46] <persia> kees: Interesting.  I suppose it gets cluttered as people belong to a sufficiency of teams, or does it filter only "interesting" teams?
[18:46] <Lutin> sebner: mlt
[18:47] <kees> persia: it filters only to "interesting" teams.
[18:47] <NCommander> How goes it ScottK ?
[18:47] <persia> Hrm.  All sorts of use for that.
[18:47] <Lutin> sebner: well actually - they all go together. you very very likely won't be able to compile a recent kdenlive with the mlt in the archive
[18:47] <ScottK> Sick kid home from school, but other than that, pretty normal.
[18:47]  * NCommander hits the toolchain
[18:48] <sebner> Lutin: ^^, buh mlt was never merged before. Resync again or a pure merge?
[18:49] <siretart> sebner: answering that question is part of the task ;)
[18:49] <Lutin> yup
[18:49] <siretart> sebner: feel free to upload to the motumedia PPA to test it
[18:49] <Lutin> away, will be back in a couple hours
[18:49] <sebner> siretart: bah /me hides :P
[18:52] <sebner> siretart: but don't expect anything before saturday/sunday :\
[19:02] <sebner> Lutin: ha! at least debian version of mlt is building :D but more on weekend ^^
[19:05] <NCommander> Why does binutils brak with hardening wrapper O_O;
[19:19] <emgent`nl> good evening
[19:20] <sebner> emgent`nl: \o/
[19:20] <emgent`nl> hey, hey hey
[19:21] <devfil> emgent`nl, sebner: hi
[19:21] <sebner> devfil: :)
[19:59] <stefanlsd> hi emgent :)
[20:18] <zoeken> hello
[20:19] <zoeken> i am new to MOTU community
[20:19] <ScottK> Hello zoeken.
[20:20] <zoeken> i want to contribute to ubuntu,what should i do?
[20:20] <zoeken> hello ScottK
[20:21] <ScottK> zoeken: It boils down to what do you want to do and what experience do you have.  We can advise you, but as a volunteer, you should try to follow your interests.
[20:21] <sebner> !MOTU | zoeken
[20:23] <zoeken> thank you
[20:23] <sebner> :)
[20:24] <sebner> ScottK: happy now since MIr was successful=
[20:24] <ScottK> Well I still have to add it to the server seed so it gets on the CD, and that means I have to use bzr.
[20:25] <sebner> ScottK: brrr, bzw :P don't worry too much. It got accepted. That's a big step forward =)
[20:26] <ScottK> Yes.
[20:26]  * sebner can see how ScottK jumps up and down ^^
[20:27] <ScottK> sebner: I'm WAY too old to jump up and down.
[20:27] <DktrKranz> ScottK, alias bzr to svn and do the job, IIRC commands are the same for both
[20:27] <ScottK> DktrKranz: Yes, well that's how I generally manage it.
[20:27] <sebner> DktrKranz: ha! you approved my FFe's :P
[20:28] <DktrKranz> sebner, one... it's 250 euros, you know
[20:28] <sebner> DktrKranz: not 2=
[20:28] <sebner> ?
[20:28] <DktrKranz> two... so it's 500
[20:28] <iulian> Yikes!
[20:28] <sebner> OWNED
[20:29]  * DktrKranz is happy to finally see seahorse-plugins in NEW
[20:37] <leonel> ScottK: once python-django 1.0  gets in intrepid .. we can do a backport to hardy  right ??
[20:38] <ScottK> Sure.  If someone asks for it and does the testing.  I'm still waiting for test reports for 1.0 on Intrepid for the FFe.
[20:41] <laga> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=mythtv-theme-metallurgy-wide - can someone pretty please ACK my package? i'd need it go into intrepid for mythbuntu.
[20:44] <ScottK> laga: Did superm1 approve an FFe for it?
[20:44] <laga> ScottK: yeah.
[20:44] <laga> someone from motu-release also said it was OK
[20:44] <laga> and it's artwork anyways. ;)
[20:45] <superm1> i suppose i didn't on the bug, just in IRC, so let me add my ack to the bug
[20:45] <ScottK> He's got delegated authority for mythbuntu stuff anyway.  I'd suggest it's worth mentioning that in a comment.
[20:45] <superm1> there we  go
[20:45] <superm1> bug 236242
[20:45] <ScottK> That too.
[20:45] <superm1> hmm
[20:45] <superm1> that's not it
[20:45] <superm1> bug 263242
[20:46] <ScottK> superm1: Make it confirmed too.
[20:46] <laga> i wasn't sure about the workflow. the FFe wiki page for new packages seemed to suggest that i need to get it ACKed on REVU first before getting the FFe ACKed formally on LP.
[20:47] <ScottK> Normally that's the case, but superm1 is welcome to deviate if it works for him.
[20:47] <geser> laga: on the other hand you will have it hard to find someone to review it without a FFe, so you need to do it in parallel
[20:48] <ScottK> In this case, it makes it clear that a package review at this point is a useful thing to do.
[20:48] <laga> hum, yes.
[20:48] <laga> bureaucracy is complicated. :)
[21:26] <laga> i find it fascinating that people constantly ask me whether i got a FFe or not, but nobody actually reviews my stuff. but i'll be back tomorrow ;)
[21:28] <geser> laga: it's just because the want to know if they need an other excuse for not reviewing your package :)
[21:28] <laga> you bet ;)
[21:30] <laga> i even offered cat pictures. i'll have a new incentive tomorrow.
[21:31] <geser> laga: like the ones on http://lolcats.com/?
[21:32] <laga> no, i've got two cats.
[21:32] <laga> ;)
[21:32] <directhex> you should have chinchillas. they're fuzzier
[21:33] <laga> i'm thinking about getting a maine coon
[21:33] <laga> they're very big
[21:39] <fabrice_sp> Hi. I'm having a look at bug #262173, and as the 'wrong' dependency comes from debian, what should I do next?
[21:46] <DktrKranz> mok0, http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/debcheck.py?dist=intrepid&package=theseus reveals it has some unmet dependencies. Do you plan to have a look at it?
[21:57] <mok0> DktrKranz: yes
[21:57] <DktrKranz> nice :)
[21:58] <mok0> DktrKranz: ah, it's a change concerning atlas3-base-dev
[22:44] <POX_> fabrice_sp__: for #262173 - ask for a sync with Debian of javascript-common package
[22:55] <DktrKranz> mok0, thanks for theseus :)
[23:03] <mok0> DktrKranz: you're welcome :-)
[23:04] <mok0> Hmm, some of them failed
[23:06] <mok0> Weird
[23:08] <leonel> ScottK:   for backport django  to hardy  we need  python-sphinx  and libjs-jquery    all these 3  builds and installs fine in hardy from intrepid  well django from debian unstable ..
[23:10] <ScottK> leonel: OK.  Should be doable.  First I need people to fille out all the wanted info on the FFe to get it into Intrepid.
[23:12] <mok0> Anyone recognize this gfortran/libatlas-base linking error? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/43478/
[23:12] <leonel> ScottK: ok
[23:13] <mok0> Compiles under x86_64 but not i386
[23:13] <ScottK> mok0: Does theseus need an SRU for Hardy too?
[23:14] <mok0> ScottK: I don't think so... this is a gfortran transition issue
[23:14] <mok0> ScottK: we still have g77 in hardy
[23:14] <ScottK> Ah.  OK.
[23:14] <ScottK> Nevermind me.
[23:15] <mok0> ScottK: but are you aware of libatlas troubles in ii?
[23:15] <mok0> Perhaps I should ping norsetto
[23:16] <ScottK> No.  Just thinking it might be needed.
[23:20] <albert23> mok0: that's probably because atlas is ftbfs on i386, but successfully built on amd64
[23:21] <mok0> albert23: I suspect you are right
[23:29] <directhex> what use is gcc-compiled atlas?
[23:39] <slangasek> as opposed to what?
[23:39] <azeem> hand-optimized assembler
[23:39] <azeem> know your cache sizes!
[23:42] <frith> when building a package, how can i turn off the tests that are performed?
[23:43] <azeem> frith: is it your package?
[23:43] <mok0> directhex: what do you mean?
[23:43] <azeem> frith: otherwise, try to export  DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nocheck
[23:43] <directhex> i guess i don't really see who ATLAS is for
[23:44] <frith> openldap 2.4.11
[23:44] <directhex> openldap uses BLAS?
[23:44] <mok0> directhex: it's a linear algebra library, highly optimized
[23:45] <frith> BLAS ?
[23:45] <mok0> directhex: opendlap? I don't think so
[23:45] <directhex> getting 2 threads mixed.
[23:45] <mok0> heeeehe
[23:46] <mathiaz> frith: openldap support the nocheck option
[23:46] <directhex> i guess i just don't know anyone who uses a distro-provided BLAS.
[23:46] <directhex> actually, it's probably a sensible option for developing on a desktop
[23:47] <mathiaz> frith: tests won't be run if you use DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nocheck
[23:47] <frith> already building :) thanks
[23:47] <azeem> directhex: there's quite some programs which use blas/lapack but which don't do such heavy computations that it'd take minutes/hours/days
[23:47] <frith> i've only ever got it to build once and pass the tests
[23:48] <azeem> but where atlas might make a difference in response time compared to blas/lapack
[23:48] <mok0> Probably a dumb question, but... what CPUs use the lpia archetecture?
[23:48] <mok0> s/arche/archi/
[23:49] <directhex> lpia is i386 with a few different compiler flags iirc. intel atom.
[23:49] <mok0> ah, eeepc
[23:50] <azeem> only the last one
[23:50] <mok0> oh, yeah
[23:51] <frith> hmm
[23:51] <frith> checks are happening
[23:51] <directhex> azeem, i've never pictured BLAS as something you'd use unless you're a numerical analyst or someone's holding a knife to your throat. maybe both!
[23:51] <mok0> frith: why don't you want checks to happen? Seems sensible to me
[23:51] <azeem> frith: how did you set DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS?  How do you build it?
[23:51] <frith> i exported it
[23:52] <azeem> directhex: apps use blas
[23:52] <frith> mok0, i've rarely get the checks to pass
[23:53] <mok0> frith: eeerrh, sounds like a bug?
[23:54] <frith> well, i don't think my own backporting of openldap 2.4.11 to hardy counts as a bug
[23:54] <directhex> good god, a gimp plugins package using blas
[23:54] <mok0> directhex: yup.
[23:54] <mok0> directhex: It's used lots of places
[23:59] <directhex> well, the gimp plugin thing is probably the best example of what azeem's talking about. wasn't expecting it, but i consider myself re-educated.