[18:37] <qense> hello
[18:42] <nand> qense: hey!
[18:42] <nand> sorry I missed the meeting, I happen to start a new job, so it's quite busy over here :)
[18:42] <qense> OK
[18:42] <qense> I was the only one there. :S
[18:42] <qense> I did expect at least someone else.
[18:43] <nand> hmm...
[18:43] <qense> You've already done quite some things for the project, I understand your reason. Earning money is important. ;)
[18:43] <qense> You need to eat something.
[18:43] <emunkki> Oh?
[18:44] <emunkki> I stopped eating years ago.
[18:44]  * nand goes to dinner
[18:44] <nand> :p
[18:44] <nand> anyway, I guess we'll have to try again another meeting...
[18:45] <qense> yeah
[18:45]  * nand really goes to dinner now
[18:45] <qense> have a nice dinner!
[18:45] <qense> (the rev is still 10, my last commit)
[20:42] <oliver_g_> hi
[20:42] <oliver_g_> not sure if this is the correct channel, but anyway:
[20:42] <oliver_g_> do you know a way to give feedback for the wiki?
[20:42] <oliver_g_> (the one at wiki.ubuntu.com)
[20:44] <oliver_g_> because every time I use it it's a pain for one reason or another, and maybe it would be useful if people could quickly give short feedback those problems?
[21:03] <thorwil> newz2000: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/IntrepidCountdownBanners
[21:03] <thorwil> not sure about the coming_soon hands
[21:04]  * newz2000 curses intrepid's problem with opening links
[21:07] <newz2000> thorwil: neat concept
[21:08] <newz2000> I like C1 and C3 the best for the "it's here" hand logo
[21:08] <newz2000> but my fav of all is still b4 and c4
[21:11] <newz2000> thorwil: I showed the banners you and others made inside canonical and the dots have been almost unanimously liked as the fav
[21:12] <newz2000> still getting feedback though
[21:13] <newz2000> I like C3 a lot
[21:14] <newz2000> hey, has anyone seen the feature tour that dell did (in flash) for the inspiron mini? www.dell.com/mini
[21:14] <thorwil> newz2000: ok, thanks. next up is trying 30 dots then. otherwise counting in stages
[21:14] <newz2000> thorwil: no need for 30 dots
[21:14] <newz2000> just don't move one each day at first
[21:14] <thorwil> newz2000: if the hands shall be offered at all, i will need some time to trace hands for all numbers ...
[21:15] <thorwil> gotta run
[21:15] <thorwil> cya!
[21:15] <newz2000> cya thorwil. thanks!
[22:46] <Volans> newz2000: Hi, I have a more quick solution for the start page
[22:46] <newz2000> Volans: ok
[22:46] <Volans> with some changes to the html of the actual start page
[22:46] <Volans> (only indentation and thingh like this)
[22:47] <Volans> we can use very quickly po2html and tidy to create all the html (online AND offline) from a single po file
[22:48] <newz2000> ah, well, that doesn't seem unreasonable
[22:48] <Volans> because actually the text of the online version is the same of the offline + the search bar and the right column...
[22:49] <Volans> if in the future the 2 pages will differ
[22:49] <Volans> we can use 2 different po files, one for the offline and another for the online version
[22:49] <newz2000> no, I think they'll grow more similar, just need to exclude links and search from the offline version
[22:50] <Volans> no problem because po2html use a template html (so for example the english version of the online/offline start page) and the po file to substitute in the template the translated strings
[22:50] <newz2000> Volans: cool, so what should we do?
[22:52] <Volans> I want to do some check to be sure that all the text to be translated are recognized by html2po and after just load the po file to launchpad and give it to the documentation team through Rosetta
[22:52] <Volans> when the translation are done, just download all the translated po files and run a silmple shell script to create all the html files
[22:52] <Volans> to put on the server for the online version
[22:53] <newz2000> ok, is there anything I can do to help you?
[22:53] <Volans> for the offline version I have to see more in depth how the package that contains them work
[22:54] <Volans> at the moment I don't know... maybe nothing :)
[22:54] <newz2000> ok, that's fine with me. :-)
[22:54] <newz2000> But I'm eager to here what's happening
[22:54] <Volans> you remember if mdke tell us that the offline version should (in case this can help us) be extract to the actual package and put in a separate package?
[22:55] <newz2000> I don't remember him saying anything about the difference
[22:55] <newz2000> but the online start page isn't in a package at the moment
[22:55] <newz2000> slangasek was opposed to a new package if it could be avoided
[22:57] <Volans> IMHO the online version do not need to be a package, is only for server side... for the offline version see the end of the matt's email of the 07/25 at about 15:38 UTC
[22:59] <newz2000> Volans: do you know what the subject of the email was?
[23:00] <Volans> sure: "Re: Ubuntu Start Page proposal"
[23:00] <Volans> not in the list
[23:00] <newz2000> oh
[23:00] <Volans> sorry I should have specify this before :)
[23:01] <newz2000> yes, on the heals of that email I talked to steve langasek, the ubuntu release manager
[23:01] <newz2000> he stated he was slightly oposed to a new package if it could be avoided
[23:03] <Volans> ah ok, in this case I can only see how the actual page is created and do some changes to the package... the only problem is that we are already in freeze for intrepid and this can be a problem
[23:03] <newz2000> the freeze doesn't strictly apply to the online version of the start page
[23:04] <newz2000> if we get a process in place for creating both online and offline versions it may not get into intrepid but that's ok, the process is my goal
[23:06] <Volans> sure, we can make the process and maybe ask matt if he can do something for the offline version that is actually shipped in that package (iirc there are some exceptions to the freeze for the documentation packages)
[23:06] <newz2000> yes
[23:15] <Volans> ok newz2000, I will see the actual package to find the simplest way to change the actual package and after I will send all to the list
[23:15] <newz2000> ok. But really I'd worry about the packaging last (if it were me)
[23:15] <Volans> ok
[23:18] <mdke> it's certainly ok to update the offline files. A new package would be out of the question at this stage in the release cycle though
[23:20] <mdke> there is no UI or string freeze yet, so you can change anything about how stuff looks or reads in the distro
[23:20] <Volans> Hi mdke :) great news! can you explain me how actually the offline page is inserted into the ubuntu-artwork package?
[23:21] <mdke> Volans: eh? It's in the ubuntu-docs package
[23:22] <Volans> sorry... I was looking at the path /usr/share/ubuntu-artwork/home/index.html and this confused me
[23:22] <newz2000> if you ever forget its line 12 in Config/append
[23:22] <newz2000> oops
[23:22] <mdke> Volans: ah. Yeah the path is confusing. but you need to use dpkg -S
[23:22] <mdke> newz2000: do you have an svg for the ubuntu-docs logo you did for me the other day?
[23:23] <newz2000> mdke: I can make you one, is it ok for me to convert the type to a path (to help you avoid font problems)?
[23:23] <Volans> mdke:  sure! sorry for the mistake... you insert the html files directly into the package or there is a sort of branch?
[23:23] <mdke> newz2000: what format is it in at the moment?
[23:24] <newz2000> its in svg format, but I need to pull it into a separate file
[23:24] <newz2000> to avoid giving you a lot of cruft
[23:24] <newz2000> but if I don't convert the font to a path you'll need the font on your pc, and its non-free
[23:25] <mdke> Volans: you can find the html files in the source package of ubuntu-docs. Which is also available via bzr here: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/ubuntu-intrepid
[23:26] <mdke> newz2000: ok, I don't really understand svg, so it if works, sure! Someone else is asking about using it for a new site
[23:26] <newz2000> ok, sure, just a moment
[23:27] <Volans> mdke: thanks, I'll look at it
[23:27] <mdke> newz2000: by the way I've asked the sysadmins to upload that wiki theme as non-default so that we can test it out a bit. But I'm still keen for any thoughts you have on it, if you get the time
[23:27] <mdke> Volans: ok, send me an email if you have any questions
[23:27] <Volans> ok thank you
[23:27] <newz2000> mdke: my virtualbox was broken until today so I'm eager to test it out, hopefully will do tomorrow or maybe yet this evening
[23:28] <mdke> newz2000: don't you run Ubuntu? grrr
[23:28] <newz2000> I do, but I keep my web server stuff in vms
[23:28] <newz2000> so my computer doesn't go slow
[23:28] <newz2000> I'm running intrepid which is why my virtualbox was broken since 2.6.27 came out
[23:29] <mdke> aha. Well, a simple substitute is to use the moin-desktop functionality, that's how I've been developing the theme
[23:29] <mdke> just Ctrl+C when you're done
[23:29] <newz2000> oh, haven't tried it
[23:29] <newz2000> are you testing with 1.6.3?
[23:29] <mdke> you just download a moin tarball and run "moin.py"
[23:30] <mdke> I think it's 1.6.4 I have, I couldn't find a tarball for 1.6.3
[23:30] <newz2000> should be fine
[23:32] <mdke> yeah, I figured
[23:33] <newz2000> mdke: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mnuzum/tmp/docs-logo.svg
[23:33] <newz2000> oh
[23:33] <newz2000> wait, forgot to save as path
[23:34] <newz2000> mdke: ok, now its ready
[23:35] <mdke> thanks dude
[23:36] <Volans> mdke: some locales are with the xx-XX syntax (like index-fi_FI.html), others with the xx syntax (like index-es.html). This means that the po file are respectively fi-FI.po and es.po ?
[23:38] <mdke> Volans: you mean if po files existed?
[23:39] <mdke> the files are named like that for some stupid historical reason in relation to the way that they interacted with firefox
[23:40] <mdke> I'd like to work on removing that for the next release
[23:40] <Volans> ok, so what syntax do you want to use?
[23:40] <mdke> for this release, it's too late to introduce po files and that sort of thing, we can only focus on improvements to the page in terms of stylesheet and text
[23:41] <newz2000> it would be cool if the files could be named the same thing that apache expects, if possible
[23:41] <mdke> of course, that doesn't stop you from working on a po file toolchain for the next release
[23:41] <mdke> newz2000: I can't see that we can play around with that, we might break something because of the highly delicate way that the packaging is set up
[23:41] <newz2000> ok
[23:42] <mdke> it's really crap, and we need to ditch it, but it's tricky to do at this stage. I'm discussing it with asac and if I make progress that I'll let you guys know
[23:42] <mdke> I'm not hopeful for intrepid though
[23:43] <Volans> the po toolchain will be very simple, just one po file for both offline and online start page if the content will remain similar and a simple bash script to automatically create the online files and the offline one (those in /ubuntu-intrepid/browser-startpage/)
[23:48] <mdke> Volans: as i say, the packaging is really delicate, I really don't think we can try something like that. I have no problem with patches to the css or text, but we're going to struggle to rewrite the toolchain. Leave it with me, I have to go to bed now
[23:48] <mdke> I'm keen to do it too, but it's september already
[23:49] <mdke> gnite
[23:50] <Volans> mdke: I'm not sure to have understand all, but we can also do the same thing only replacing the actual html files with the new ones that will be quite identical... but we can speak about tomorrow or another day, no problem