[00:59] <Domestiqules> hey everyone
[16:18] <ApOgEE-> hi all
[16:18] <karmaferit> **greets
[16:19] <ApOgEE-> does anybody know if there is an SVG version of this shiny ubuntu logo? -->http://imagebin.org/25804
[18:27] <_MMA_> thorwil: Would you mind doing up those perspective examples you mentioned for Breathe?
[18:28] <thorwil> _MMA_: you mean several ways of showing a box?
[18:29] <_MMA_> The "sphere and a box" thing.
[18:29]  * DanaG likes his icons straight-on, not slanted.
[18:29] <DanaG> =þ
[18:30] <_MMA_> thorwil: I guess a couple of proposals would be good. Or we can just go with how Human is now.
[18:31] <thorwil> _MMA_: well, one can analyze how perspective is handled in oxygen. choosing a different one would lead to some incompatibility
[18:33] <thorwil> _MMA_: maybe i can do a bit on bg colours and sphere/box tomorrow morning. right now i'm deep into dots-on-a-spiral land
[18:34] <_MMA_> Well that depends. The end goal is to replace everything. So we can go how we like. But, it the plan is to use some of them where suitable, just change what we like to make it fit better, then we should keep with the Oxygen perspective.
[18:36] <Cimi> I'm really disappointed with your ideas of ruining years of tango guidelines
[18:37] <Cimi> now that things finally looked consistend
[18:37] <Cimi> *consistent
[18:38] <_MMA_> Cimi: Show me where I have to use Tango. Most useful thing about Tango is the naming, and that FreeDesktop.
[18:39] <_MMA_> Tango, with its heavy borders around everything, "sux". ;)
[18:39] <Cimi> http://jimmac.musichall.cz/i.php?i=Tango-NG
[18:39] <Cimi> sux? I don't think so
[18:39] <_MMA_> And? :)
[18:40] <_MMA_> And you said "Tango". Not NG.
[18:40] <Cimi> heavy borders have their reason
[18:40] <Cimi> just take a look at oxygen
[18:40] <Cimi> small icons are bad
[18:40] <_MMA_> Not around *everything*. That is shit.
[18:40] <DanaG> Oh yeah, the Fedora icons are what I mean by 'angled' -- ugly.
[18:40] <Cimi> and pinheiro, david vignini, iaconelli
[18:40] <Cimi> totally agree with me
[18:40] <_MMA_> So? :)
[18:40] <Cimi> they are the 3 designers
[18:41] <Cimi> the three main member of the oxygen team
[18:41] <Cimi> and they agree that tango manages small icons a lot bette
[18:41] <Cimi> r
[18:41] <_MMA_> BTW, I've already been talking alot to jimman. ;)
[18:41] <_MMA_> Ok. We'll do better on our set. :P
[18:41] <Cimi> you can just do icons as jimmac
[18:42] <Cimi> see that link
[18:42] <_MMA_> I have. Its old. ﻿I'll do them however our community decides.
[18:43] <_MMA_> We'll use the base we like regardless of where it comes from. And improve where needed.
[18:43] <Cimi> http://www.gnome-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre1/79756-1.jpg
[18:43] <Cimi> this is what community likes
[18:44] <Cimi> it has 82% of positive feedback and thousands of download
[18:44] <_MMA_> So you're playing the elitist role?
[18:44] <Cimi> "elitist" what does it mean?
[18:45] <Cimi> (sorry my english sux much more than tango icons :) )
[18:45] <_MMA_> You're opinion is better than everyone else's?
[18:45] <Cimi> no
[18:46] <Cimi> I mean that I believe more in what icon designers said. Icon designers who knows also how to make an icon visible and focused with small contrast, artists that have experience
[18:46] <_MMA_> In the end this will take whatever shape the people involved put into it. Tango-NG is nowhere near ready. Oxygen is a fine modern set to base off of. We'll take what works and improve along the way.
[18:46] <Cimi> I personally believe much more in you or jimmac rather than gnomelook.org community
[18:47] <Cimi> I believe more in your opinions rather than in mines
[18:48] <thorwil> bwahaha
[18:48] <Cimi> thorwil: in icon design :)
 I'm really disappointed with your ideas of ruining years of tango guidelines
[18:48] <_MMA_> So, IMO, I'm not "ruining" anything. Im just not gonna make a set that inherits Tango as it is.
[18:48] <Cimi> thorwil: disappointed doesn't mean "your idea sux"
[18:49] <Cimi> means, I'm surprised
[18:49] <thorwil> Cimi: oh common. that statement just doesnt fit you later "I believe more in your opinions rather than in mines"
[18:50] <Cimi> thorwil: I haven't done any icon
[18:50] <thorwil> anyway, _if_this effort takes off, it's well possible that not much of oxgen will remain
[18:50] <Cimi> _MMA_ did much more than mine
[18:50] <_MMA_> My kids can use Tango. Boring corporate types can also. I want something that doesn't make me feel like I'm using something drawn for blind people. :)
[18:50] <Cimi> so I trust more in his statements than in mines
[18:51] <Cimi> _MMA_: jimmac is colorblind :)
[18:51] <_MMA_> So Ive been told. :)
[18:51] <Cimi> also lapo calamandrei, another member of the tango team :)
[18:51] <Cimi> he sees the sun blue
[18:51] <Cimi> (jimmac told me)
[18:52] <thorwil> ouch
[18:53] <_MMA_> I'll happly welcome anyone that wants to create regardless of the DE. I'll be reaching out to some of the very people you mention after we set some rules. Style and such.
[18:53] <Cimi> _MMA_: if you want my opinion
[18:53] <thorwil> a former classmate of me, in ... ooh, vocational training as design-technical assistent also had a colour-deficiency. he used a _lot_ of blue in his designs
[18:53] <_MMA_> You're welcome to give it.
[18:55] <thorwil> i think tango is really good at what it is meant to be. however, we want more sex ;)
[18:56] <_MMA_> hahahaha
[18:57] <_MMA_> Ok. Ill bbl. (time to play with my kids)
[18:57] <_MMA_> thorwil: Feel free to hack on the wiki.
[19:10] <Cimi> _MMA_: I'm not too in love with the heavy borders of tango, and even the lack of details, the small palette and the lack of gradients (see gnome "flat" folders). At the same time oxygen icons are amazing with big sizes, while becomes totally unusable with small sizes. If i would write anew  guideline, I would mix the two ideas, providing a good contrast while paying more attention on the details and enhancing the pal
[19:13] <_MMA_> We will border where needed. Trust me we'll work to improve upon it all. It's still no guarantee people will like it.
[19:13] <Cimi> this is my opinion, which seems to stop tango project to something new and fresh.... but at the same time I don't want to ruin three years of work over those guidelines. that's why I said I'm disappointed. I don't know if Mango/Tango-NG could follow my suggestions in paying more attention to the details using a modern palette
[19:14] <_MMA_> bbl.
[19:14] <Cimi> I would really like to see a tango++
[19:15] <Cimi> rather than a totally new project (so to avoid losing the consistent look we achieved)
[19:18] <zniavre> http://www.gnome-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre1/79756-1.jpg >how to get this sidepanel on nautilus please?