| NCommander | Riddell, I edited the diff to add it o_o; | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Riddell | NCommander: I used the version from your PPA | 00:01 |
| Riddell | NCommander: what does "Brown Paper Bag Update" mean? | 00:01 |
| NCommander | + * Corrected installation files to account for files that | 00:01 |
| NCommander | + were removed with the last alpha. (LP: #266941) | 00:01 |
| NCommander | It means I'm ashamed of the previous update, since it shouldn't have been uploaded (I test built it on Hardy vs. Intrepid chroots on PPC by accident) | 00:01 |
| Riddell | "-#include <sys/io.h>" you sure that doesn't break anything? | 00:02 |
| NCommander | Test built on both amd64 (intrepid), and powerpc (intrepid) | 00:03 |
| NCommander | I can upload to my PPA if you wish for proof | 00:04 |
| Riddell | naw, I trust you | 00:05 |
| NCommander | heh | 00:06 |
| NCommander | Thanks | 00:06 |
| NCommander | I applied for Kubuntu membership on Launchpad | 00:06 |
| Riddell | ooh exciting | 00:06 |
| NCommander | I figure the recent roung of FTBFS fixs counts as "significant contribution ;-)) | 00:06 |
| Riddell | we'll need to organise a meeting in that casae | 00:06 |
| NCommander | s/))/)\"/g | 00:06 |
| Riddell | NCommander: what timezone are you in? | 00:07 |
| NCommander | Eastern Standard | 00:07 |
| NCommander | (UTC-5) | 00:07 |
| Riddell | indi uploaded | 00:08 |
| NCommander | \o/ | 00:08 |
| NCommander | KDE can now build on all architectures | 00:08 |
| NCommander | someone just needs to retry the builds once indi is up, since that should clear the build failure on kdeedu4 | 00:09 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: we should do more meetings anyway | 00:10 |
| * NCommander looks at the list of packages he's worked on | 00:10 | |
| NCommander | At the rate I'm going, I think when its time to apply for MOTU, it will be easier to list what I don't work on vs what I have. ... | 00:10 |
| * NCommander sighs | 00:10 | |
| NCommander | KDE4 seriously needs a beefly video card though I find | 00:11 |
| Riddell | apachelogger: we should find a regular day and time for them | 00:12 |
| NCommander | when was the last meeting? | 00:12 |
| Riddell | JontheEchidna: kdegraphics uploaded | 00:12 |
| Riddell | 10 days ago or so | 00:12 |
| blizzz | aug, 27th | 00:12 |
| JontheEchidna | Riddell: thanks | 00:13 |
| apachelogger | oh, freeze is lifted? | 00:13 |
| Riddell | JontheEchidna: but the patch shouldn't be number 99 unless there's a paticular reason for it to be last. also the patch name should be in the changelog by my preference so it can be grepped for | 00:13 |
| NCommander | apachelogger, yeah | 00:14 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: I told you... more verbose! :P | 00:14 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: cool, thx | 00:14 |
| * apachelogger pokes Riddell with http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/debdiffs/ | 00:14 | |
| * NCommander thought there was one other FTBFS failure | 00:14 | |
| apachelogger | akonadi fixes apparmor | 00:14 |
| apachelogger | kdelibs fixes file conflict with runtime | 00:14 |
| apachelogger | kdepim introduces a dep on akonadi-server as described | 00:15 |
| apachelogger | konq-plugins adds conflicts on kde3 versions ensuring upgrading works | 00:15 |
| NCommander | apachelogger, is there any other major Kubuntu app that FTBFS? | 00:15 |
| Riddell | lucky for you guys I've been out partying this evening, I'll upload anything :) | 00:15 |
| apachelogger | rofl | 00:16 |
| * apachelogger heads over to ubuntuwire | 00:16 | |
| NCommander | woot | 00:16 |
| * NCommander is curious who broke KOffice2 by not test building | 00:17 | |
| NCommander | er | 00:17 |
| NCommander | ahem ..... | 00:17 |
| * NCommander runs away | 00:17 | |
| JontheEchidna | hehe | 00:17 |
| * JontheEchidna just needs sexeh screenshots for the alpha5 wiki | 00:17 | |
| apachelogger | widescreen please :P | 00:17 |
| Riddell | JontheEchidna: grab one from the 4.1.1 story on kubuntu.org | 00:18 |
| JontheEchidna | Riddell: I made that one | 00:18 |
| JontheEchidna | ;-) | 00:18 |
| apachelogger | and it is not widescreen! | 00:18 |
| JontheEchidna | yes... | 00:18 |
| NCommander | Riddell, can you please retry ubiquity?, its a DEP-WAIT which appears to have been cleared | 00:18 |
| Riddell | JontheEchidna: http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/update-notifier-apport.png | 00:18 |
| Riddell | JontheEchidna: http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/update-notifier-hooks.png | 00:18 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: really just koffice2 | 00:18 |
| Riddell | JontheEchidna: http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/update-notifier.png (but old icon) | 00:18 |
| JontheEchidna | Riddell: thanks | 00:19 |
| NCommander | I figure if Riddell feels like uploading things, I might as well go on an FTBFS fixing spree | 00:19 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: you could use my lp picture, if you want ;-) | 00:19 |
| JontheEchidna | How do images work with the wiki? | 00:20 |
| JontheEchidna | Anyway: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/IntrepidIbex/Alpha5/Kubuntu | 00:21 |
| Riddell | you can upload them but I never worked out how, if you include a URL that ends in .png or .jpg it'll make it an image | 00:21 |
| JontheEchidna | Well if somebody else knew how that would be grand :-) | 00:22 |
| apachelogger | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpOnActions/AttachFile | 00:23 |
| apachelogger | I guess | 00:23 |
| Riddell | JontheEchidna: you can also steal this image and note that we were akademy gold sponsors http://dot.kde.org/1218497374/ | 00:23 |
| JontheEchidna | Ha, nice pic | 00:26 |
| Riddell | JontheEchidna: kdepimlibs uploaded, but again a more verbose changelog would be good (name of patch, where did the patch come from) | 00:26 |
| JontheEchidna | Thx | 00:27 |
| * apachelogger grabs his super big todo page | 00:27 | |
| apachelogger | smarter: status report of kepas would be cool :) | 00:28 |
| NCommander | Riddell, I've got another FTBFS fix cooking in my PPA, so if your in the mood for uploading things | 00:28 |
| NCommander | Second question, who's in charge of linux-restricted-modules? I'd like to commit fixs to that to get it building on powerpc | 00:29 |
| Riddell | NCommander: linux team are | 00:30 |
| Riddell | #ubuntu-kernel is their home | 00:30 |
| NCommander | I'll have to venter there at some point and ask them | 00:30 |
| Riddell | NCommander: ubiquity retried | 00:32 |
| NCommander | Riddell, https://edge.launchpad.net/~sonicmctails/+archive - care to upload logwatch? (FTBFS cleared on it) | 00:33 |
| * Riddell queues NCommander after apachelogger's patches | 00:36 | |
| * NCommander likes Riddell's upload friendly attitude after parties | 00:37 | |
| NCommander | Thus when I want to get FTBFS fixes upload, I must through a party for Riddell | 00:37 |
| * apachelogger certainly likes a good party as well ;-) | 00:37 | |
| JontheEchidna | looks like tonight be patch night | 00:39 |
| NCommander | Riddell, BTW, if you like, I have an application for UUC, sponsors welcome | 00:39 |
| apachelogger | we should also have regular patch nights, maybe the night before meetings, so we can talk about something at the meetings | 00:40 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: only if you make revu use oxygen icons :) | 00:40 |
| JontheEchidna | lol | 00:41 |
| NCommander | apachelogger, well, its color scheme does more resemble KDE then Ubuntu's brown :-) | 00:41 |
| Riddell | NCommander: UUC? | 00:42 |
| apachelogger | a friend of mine is using it on his ubuntu desktop | 00:42 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: universe contributor | 00:42 |
| NCommander | Riddell, Ubuntu Universe Contribitor | 00:42 |
| NCommander | AKA I get the pretty @ubuntu.com email | 00:42 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: pretty much like ubuntu membership just the developer version of it | 00:42 |
| Riddell | you mean MOTU? | 00:42 |
| NCommander | no | 00:42 |
| NCommander | No upload rights yet | 00:42 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: ucc is before that | 00:42 |
| apachelogger | ucc -> motu -> core dev | 00:43 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: the magnifier thingy is crystalsvg, so I guess it would make sense to upgrade it to oxygen and as part of this ugrade also exchange the other icons | 00:43 |
| Riddell | so just a membership approved by motu council? | 00:43 |
| NCommander | You can go straight to MOTU, but I haven't been here long enough, its generally said one full release or more before you can apply for MOTU and not get rejected | 00:43 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: yes | 00:43 |
| Riddell | a whole release! | 00:43 |
| NCommander | THat's the low end | 00:44 |
| Riddell | that's ages | 00:44 |
| apachelogger | yes | 00:44 |
| apachelogger | stupid policy IMHO | 00:44 |
| NCommander | Someone struck that from the wiki (the time limits) | 00:44 |
| NCommander | But I still would expect a general MOTU membership to be rejected | 00:44 |
| Riddell | used to be a month or two I'm sure | 00:44 |
| * NCommander may end up applying for core dev however | 00:44 | |
| NCommander | Most of my uploads go to main | 00:44 |
| Riddell | back in my day I just turned up at the techboard meeting and got approved | 00:45 |
| * NCommander looks at his upload list | 00:45 | |
| NCommander | 80%-ish are main uploads | 00:45 |
| jjesse | umm can you imagine if someone voted against you :) | 00:45 |
| Riddell | apachelogger: your stuff uploaded | 00:45 |
| Riddell | NCommander: logwatch uploaded | 00:45 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: merci beaucoup | 00:45 |
| NCommander | \o/ | 00:45 |
| NCommander | FTBFS count drops by three tonight | 00:46 |
| Riddell | where do I recommend NCommander for this ucc thing? | 00:46 |
| NCommander | motu counsel mailing list | 00:46 |
| NCommander | Riddell, roughly speaking, what are the qualifications for core dev? Its not as clear as MOTU | 00:46 |
| Riddell | ooh devfil is gonnae be MOTU | 00:47 |
| jjesse | yay formore motus | 00:47 |
| NCommander | Riddell, he is an MOTU now | 00:48 |
| * NCommander needs to finish T&S for Debian sometime today or tommorow | 00:48 | |
| Riddell | NCommander: as far as I know, a desire to help the strategic goals of ubuntu. which I take to mean working on specs or having goals towards a better release rather than just fixing a package here or there | 00:49 |
| NCommander | Riddell, sounds like my work with kees on the PIE experiment | 00:49 |
| jjesse | mmmm i like pie :) | 00:49 |
| apachelogger | hm | 00:49 |
| * apachelogger hands jjesse a cookie for now | 00:50 | |
| jjesse | evening apachelogger | 00:50 |
| NCommander | It currently involves bootstrapping Ubuntu from scratch (well, my method, that may not be necessary for the final transition) | 00:50 |
| NCommander | Or the base system from scratch | 00:50 |
| apachelogger | jjesse: more like night :P | 00:50 |
| JontheEchidna | Totally beats the pants off the Ubuntu announcement: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/IntrepidIbex/Alpha5/Kubuntu | 00:50 |
| Riddell | NCommander: I'd think a goal of reducing fail to builds to zero would count | 00:50 |
| JontheEchidna | need more sexeh though | 00:51 |
| NCommander | Riddell, thats my other goal, but I find making debdiffs anonying at best | 00:51 |
| * NCommander is working towards zero FTBFS in main, and less then 1% in universe | 00:51 | |
| * JontheEchidna is afk for 15 or so mins | 00:51 | |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: I demand screenie | 00:51 |
| apachelogger | knetstats depends on kicker; however: | 00:52 |
| apachelogger | Package kicker is not installed. | 00:52 |
| * apachelogger gets his laser screwdriver | 00:52 | |
| * NCommander uses his sonic screwdriver on apachelogger | 00:52 | |
| apachelogger | meh | 00:53 |
| apachelogger | EXTERMINATE! | 00:53 |
| apachelogger | Nightrose: my amarok just disappeared | 00:53 |
| Nightrose | oO | 00:54 |
| NCommander | Riddell, to make that build count drop to zero is Soyuz having a NOT-FOR-US setting for packages on an arch | 00:54 |
| Riddell | NCommander: I'm sure that would mean something to me if I hadn't had lots of posh champaigne at my brother's 30th | 00:55 |
| NCommander | Riddell, NOT-FOR-US on Debian means that this architecture should never build this package. Sorta a poor-mans-version of P-a-s, but helpful for Ubuntu specific packages | 00:56 |
| ScottK | Note that the one release thing isn't a rule, but a guideline (for MOTU) | 00:56 |
| NCommander | ScottK, now someone tells me :-P | 00:56 |
| Riddell | why not just have the package specify which arches it should build for | 00:56 |
| NCommander | Riddell, depreiated on both Debian and Ubuntu in favor of P-a-s | 00:56 |
| NCommander | ScottK, well, I may apply straight for core-dev at the end of the intrepid cycle vs going for MOTU. | 00:57 |
| NCommander | ScottK, MOTU doesn't help much, almost all of my uploads go to main | 00:57 |
| ScottK | It can be done, but it's unorthdox. | 00:59 |
| NCommander | me only applied for UUC for the email address and getting his blog on Ubuntu Planet | 01:01 |
| NCommander | ^/ | 01:01 |
| NCommander | ScottK, well, the worst they can do is reject me | 01:01 |
| * apachelogger is wondering why knetstats doesn't go to tray | 01:02 | |
| NCommander | ScottK, well, generally speaking, if in general my uploads to universe are rather limited, do you feel that its worth applying for MOTU, and then waiting for core-dev, or just go for the end result | 01:05 |
| Riddell | I don't, and neither do the tech board (based on the feeling from three years ago when this first came up) | 01:07 |
| NCommander | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/07/web20_for_developers/ - random aside | 01:11 |
| NCommander | Riddell & ScottK, based on my current work, at the end of the intrepid or intrepid+1 cycle, would you consider sponsoring me for core-devship? | 01:11 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: are you going to update meta-kde? | 01:12 |
| NCommander | I can | 01:12 |
| Riddell | NCommander: at the end of intrepid yes | 01:12 |
| NCommander | Is it in a bazaar repo, or can I just grab the source package | 01:12 |
| Riddell | no bzr | 01:12 |
| NCommander | Riddell, which team is it under? | 01:13 |
| Riddell | apt-get source it | 01:13 |
| NCommander | Roughly speaking, I assume I just need to fix the version numbers right? (I don't know off hand if any new packages need to be added) | 01:14 |
| NCommander | ^ apachelogger | 01:14 |
| JontheEchidna | NCommander: kdeaddons would need to be removed as a dep | 01:15 |
| apachelogger | well | 01:15 |
| apachelogger | there are quite some changes necessary | 01:15 |
| * NCommander starts working on it | 01:15 | |
| apachelogger | what JontheEchidna said | 01:15 |
| * NCommander first sees a major change w.r.t. to kde-core versioning | 01:16 | |
| apachelogger | qt3-designer needs to be changed to libqt4-designer | 01:16 |
| apachelogger | arts stuff needs to get dropped | 01:16 |
| apachelogger | kdeplasma-addons should be add to kde | 01:16 |
| apachelogger | kde-i18n should be kde-l10n, but I don't even know where that package is from | 01:17 |
| apachelogger | doesn't exist at all :D | 01:17 |
| NCommander | Done expect for the kde-i18n one | 01:18 |
| apachelogger | kdewebdev -> kdewebdev-kde4 | 01:20 |
| NCommander | That one still -kde4? | 01:21 |
| Riddell | yes, no quanta in kde4 yet | 01:21 |
| NCommander | Ok | 01:22 |
| NCommander | Works for me | 01:22 |
| NCommander | All changes made | 01:22 |
| NCommander | Testing installability | 01:22 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: would a KDE 3 profiling app work on KDE 4 apps? | 01:22 |
| Riddell | depends on how it workesd | 01:22 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: kde-core needs to depend on kdebase, kdebase-runtime and kdebase-workspace instead of just kdebase | 01:23 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: libkonq4-dev -> libkonq5-dev | 01:23 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: kdelibs4* -> kdelibs5* | 01:23 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: Qt3's designer tool -> Qt 4's designer tool (in kde-devel) | 01:24 |
| NCommander | (already got that last one) | 01:24 |
| apachelogger | + bump standards-version | 01:25 |
| apachelogger | that should be everything | 01:25 |
| NCommander | Yeah | 01:25 |
| NCommander | What's the tag for the same version | 01:25 |
| NCommander | $source:Version, right? | 01:25 |
| apachelogger | depends | 01:25 |
| apachelogger | source:Version if revisions doesn't matter binary:Version if it does | 01:25 |
| NCommander | This has kde (>= 4:48) | 01:25 |
| * ScottK doesn't really consider bumping standards version a particularly useful change. | 01:25 | |
| NCommander | Which is hacky | 01:25 |
| NCommander | ScottK, lintian turns off some checks with lower standards versions | 01:26 |
| ScottK | True. | 01:26 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: ${binary:Version} then | 01:26 |
| * JontheEchidna screenies update-notifier-kde | 01:27 | |
| * ScottK has a look at kde4bindings. | 01:27 | |
| apachelogger | \o/ | 01:27 |
| * NCommander has it done | 01:28 | |
| JontheEchidna | yay for Riddell's screenshots! | 01:28 |
| Riddell | I don't know how to make them links to the larger versions | 01:28 |
| * JontheEchidna doesn't either | 01:29 | |
| NCommander | Riddell, is this destined for the archive, or the KDE4 PPA? | 01:29 |
| ScottK | Riddell: Any objections if I merge from Debian too as I look at KDE4 stuff? | 01:29 |
| Riddell | http://www.kubuntu.org/news/intrepid-alpha-5 about to appear | 01:29 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: no worky | 01:30 |
| NCommander | argh | 01:30 |
| NCommander | Something isn't installable | 01:30 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: needs formatting | 01:30 |
| * NCommander figures out what | 01:30 | |
| Riddell | ScottK: no but we're long after the merge time so it's not much use exept extra work unless there's something that needs merged in | 01:30 |
| JontheEchidna | apachelogger: worky now | 01:30 |
| ScottK | Well I'll at least look. | 01:31 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: koffice needs triage, if you are bored some day | 01:32 |
| JontheEchidna | apachelogger: koffice2 or koffice1? | 01:32 |
| apachelogger | uno | 01:32 |
| * JontheEchidna keeps that in mind | 01:32 | |
| NCommander | apachelogger, you missed kdesdk | 01:33 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: missed? | 01:33 |
| NCommander | well | 01:34 |
| NCommander | err | 01:34 |
| NCommander | kde-devel: Depends: kdesdk (>= 4:4.1.1) but it is not installable | 01:34 |
| NCommander | Depends: kdebase-dev (>= 4:4.1.1) but it is not installable | 01:34 |
| NCommander | Depends: libkonq5-dev (>= 4:4.1.1) but it is not installable | 01:34 |
| apachelogger | me@apoc { ~/src/deb/k/meta-kde-48 }$ apt-cache show kdesdk | grep Version | 01:34 |
| apachelogger | Version: 4:4.1.1-0ubuntu2 | 01:34 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: btw, -devel also needs to depend on kdebase-runtime-dev and kdebase-workspace-dev | 01:34 |
| NCommander | mcasadevall@blacksteel:~/src$ apt-cache show kdepim | grep Version | 01:35 |
| NCommander | Version: 4:4.1.1a-0ubuntu1 | 01:35 |
| * NCommander changes the control file to just require 4.1.0 | 01:35 | |
| apachelogger | hm | 01:36 |
| apachelogger | 1a isn't > 1? | 01:36 |
| NCommander | It doesn't seem so | 01:36 |
| apachelogger | me@apoc { ~/src/deb/koffice }$ dpkg --compare-versions 4:4.1.1 lt 4:4.1.1a; echo $? | 01:37 |
| apachelogger | 0 | 01:37 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: should be | 01:37 |
| NCommander | I need to work out why this is uninstallable then :-/ | 01:37 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/debdiffs/koffice_1.6.3-6ubuntu1_to_ubuntu2.diff | 01:38 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: please paste your current control file | 01:38 |
| NCommander | apachelogger, http://paste.ubuntu.com/43774/ | 01:38 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: you can remove kde-i18n references | 01:39 |
| NCommander | Keep kde-k10n references, right? | 01:40 |
| apachelogger | that package does't exist currently either | 01:40 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: -runtime -workspace from kde should go to kde-core | 01:40 |
| NCommander | suggests aren't auto pulled in so it really doesn't break anything | 01:40 |
| apachelogger | yes, but they get suggested ;-) | 01:41 |
| apachelogger | libartsc0-dev (>= 1.5.5), libarts1-dev (>= 1.5.5), <--- should be removed | 01:41 |
| apachelogger | kdebase-runtime-dev (>= 4:4.1.1), kdebase-workspace-dev (>= 4:4.1.1) should go from suggests to depends | 01:41 |
| JontheEchidna | is bug 197404 really applicable anymore? | 01:41 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 197404 in kubuntu-kde4-meta "Kubuntu-kde4 application integration" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197404 | 01:41 |
| NCommander | I put them under suggests? | 01:41 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: yes, they should be depends | 01:42 |
| NCommander | Oops | 01:42 |
| NCommander | My mistake | 01:42 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: I think the libarts thingies are causing the problem | 01:42 |
| NCommander | Yeah | 01:42 |
| apachelogger | they probably depend kdelibs4-dev which has a file conflict with runtime currently | 01:42 |
| NCommander | Ok, lets test it | 01:42 |
| NCommander | aptitude likes it more, but still not installable | 01:44 |
| apachelogger | meh | 01:45 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: btw, can you make some sweet pic for the alpha5 news | 01:45 |
| apachelogger | an app or something | 01:45 |
| JontheEchidna | uh | 01:45 |
| NCommander | pastebinning it | 01:45 |
| Riddell | apachelogger: koffice uploaded | 01:45 |
| JontheEchidna | any one in particular? | 01:45 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: thank you | 01:45 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: no, just something fancy | 01:45 |
| NCommander | Riddell, http://paste.ubuntu.com/43775/ | 01:45 |
| NCommander | er, apachelogger | 01:45 |
| Riddell | apachelogger: there's lots on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/IntrepidIbex/Alpha5/Kubuntu | 01:46 |
| Riddell | feel free to add to the news page | 01:46 |
| Riddell | I must to bed | 01:46 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: kdelibs -> kdelibs5 I guess | 01:46 |
| NCommander | Riddell, koffice2 built! | 01:46 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: sleep tight | 01:46 |
| * JontheEchidna has something in mind | 01:46 | |
| Riddell | NCommander: awooga! thanks for that | 01:47 |
| NCommander | I'm suprised it remained broken for so long | 01:47 |
| Riddell | NCommander: it just takes so long to build (as I'm sure you've discovered) | 01:47 |
| NCommander | 1 hour, 20 minutes here | 01:47 |
| apachelogger | Icrecream ftw! | 01:47 |
| NCommander | That's why I uploaded it to the PPA for easy review | 01:47 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: awesome what you did with the adept screenshots :D | 01:48 |
| JontheEchidna | apachelogger: you mean the update-notifier ones? | 01:48 |
| apachelogger | yus | 01:48 |
| JontheEchidna | k, Riddell did the adept one | 01:49 |
| NCommander | apachelogger, still no love | 01:49 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: kde depends twice on kde-core | 01:49 |
| NCommander | apachelogger, I caught that on my own and fixed it already | 01:49 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: -runtime and -workspace from kde should still go to kde-core :P | 01:50 |
| NCommander | That was fixed too | 01:50 |
| apachelogger | .... center, panel, etc.) and important libraries and data, in addition to the | 01:50 |
| apachelogger | aRts soundserver. | 01:50 |
| NCommander | er | 01:50 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: kill the "in addiotion..." | 01:50 |
| NCommander | They were copied and pasted | 01:50 |
| NCommander | Not cut | 01:50 |
| apachelogger | *addition | 01:50 |
| NCommander | Wait | 01:51 |
| NCommander | Think I found it | 01:51 |
| NCommander | apachelogger, your not a core-dev, right? | 01:51 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: nope | 01:52 |
| NCommander | Pity Riddell had to go to sleep | 01:52 |
| NCommander | I think I fixed it | 01:52 |
| ScottK | NCommander: Fixed what? | 01:52 |
| NCommander | kde-meta | 01:52 |
| NCommander | Well, its getting there | 01:52 |
| NCommander | devel doesn't want to install | 01:52 |
| ScottK | I'll be here for a while, so feel free to ping me if you have something worth uploading. | 01:53 |
| NCommander | kdebase-workspace | 01:53 |
| NCommander | O_O; | 01:53 |
| NCommander | THat's not installable | 01:53 |
| NCommander | (like actually not installable) | 01:53 |
| NCommander | mcasadevall@blacksteel:~/src/meta-kde-48ubuntu1$ apt-cache search kdebase-workspace | grep Version | 01:53 |
| NCommander | mcasadevall@blacksteel:~/src/meta-kde-48ubuntu1$ | 01:53 |
| ScottK | apachelogger: kde4bindings has a file debian/control.fire. Do you know what that is? | 01:53 |
| ScottK | NCommander: What arch? | 01:53 |
| NCommander | amd64 | 01:54 |
| apachelogger | ScottK: Nope. | 01:54 |
| NCommander | But its an arch all package O_O; | 01:54 |
| ScottK | Hmmm. | 01:54 |
| * NCommander runs aptitiude upgrade for good measure | 01:54 | |
| NCommander | Very strange | 01:55 |
| NCommander | Now it sees kdebase-workspace | 01:55 |
| NCommander | but apt-cache doesn't show it | 01:55 |
| apachelogger | ScottK: if you have time http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/debdiffs/koffice-l10n_1.6.3-1ubuntu1_to_ubuntu2.diff | 01:57 |
| ScottK-laptop | apachelogger: Link me again please. | 01:58 |
| apachelogger | ScottK-laptop: http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/debdiffs/koffice-l10n_1.6.3-1ubuntu1_to_ubuntu2.diff | 01:58 |
| NCommander | apachelogger, ok, I got kde working, now just kde-devel doesn't work | 01:59 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: please repaste the current version | 01:59 |
| apachelogger | ohhh | 01:59 |
| apachelogger | more broken KDE 3 stuff -.- | 01:59 |
| NCommander | apachelogger, http://pastebin.com/m31b8985 | 02:00 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: libartsc0-dev (>= 1.5.5) <-- remove | 02:00 |
| NCommander | Crap | 02:00 |
| NCommander | I did a search for all of them | 02:00 |
| ScottK-laptop | apachelogger: What is the impact of this typo? It's a big upload for a small typo ... | 02:01 |
| apachelogger | ScottK-laptop: it will try installing the wrong package | 02:01 |
| ScottK-laptop | apachelogger: Also, listinig the maintainer change in debian/changelog is no longer considered good practic. | 02:01 |
| ScottK-laptop | OK. | 02:01 |
| apachelogger | and I think without kde-i18n koffice is not exactly 100% translated | 02:01 |
| NCommander | ScottK, indi was fixed for all architectures ;-) | 02:01 |
| ScottK-laptop | NCommander: Great. Thank you for fixing that. | 02:02 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: apparently runtime-dev doesn't exist at all | 02:02 |
| ScottK-laptop | That means kdeedu should now work on all archs. | 02:02 |
| * NCommander zaps it from the install logs | 02:02 | |
| NCommander | er, ... | 02:02 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: remove kdebase-runtime-dev | 02:02 |
| apachelogger | then everything should be working | 02:02 |
| NCommander | Ok, dead | 02:02 |
| NCommander | You should get credit for this upload apachelogger, its yours if you want it | 02:03 |
| apachelogger | no, you did the work ;-) | 02:03 |
| NCommander | aka | 02:03 |
| NCommander | If it breaks, I get the blame | 02:03 |
| apachelogger | righto :P | 02:03 |
| ScottK-laptop | apachelogger: Was there a bug for this? | 02:03 |
| apachelogger | nope, found it on ubuntuwire | 02:04 |
| apachelogger | ScottK-laptop: ^ | 02:04 |
| ScottK-laptop | OK. Thanks. | 02:04 |
| NCommander | ScottK-laptop, I've got meta-kde4 uploaded, I don't see a need to open a bug for it if your just going to directly upload it | 02:04 |
| NCommander | (its a debian native package, so I can't give you a debdiff) | 02:04 |
| ScottK-laptop | NCommander: Where? | 02:05 |
| NCommander | To my PPA in a moment | 02:05 |
| NCommander | Just confirming installability | 02:05 |
| NCommander | Ok, it installs | 02:05 |
| NCommander | uploading | 02:05 |
| ScottK-laptop | apachelogger: Test building. | 02:06 |
| NCommander | Man, KDE saw a lot of love tonight :-) | 02:06 |
| JontheEchidna | yeah, it did | 02:06 |
| NCommander | ScottK, want me to tackle the bindings issue? | 02:07 |
| apachelogger | Thinking about where we started post-hardy, KDE saw a lot love ever since :D | 02:07 |
| ScottK-laptop | NCommander: Nope. I'm working on it and I'd like to get at least one upload with my name on it. | 02:07 |
| * NCommander looks on the stats list on where Scott is | 02:07 | |
| ScottK-laptop | Been falling for that last few weeks. | 02:08 |
| NCommander | Where's the page with all the lists of people's uploads | 02:08 |
| NCommander | THe one that list who has what this cycle | 02:08 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: http://thc.emanuele-gentili.com/utu/utu_intrepid.php | 02:08 |
| JontheEchidna | Hmm, now that it's quieted down a bit, maybe I can ask again. :P Is bug 197404 still valid? | 02:09 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 197404 in kubuntu-kde4-meta "Kubuntu-kde4 application integration" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197404 | 02:09 |
| * apachelogger wants to note that jr gets a lot of uploads just because of the script apachelogger wrote for kde-l10n :P | 02:09 | |
| JontheEchidna | :P | 02:09 |
| NCommander | :-P | 02:09 |
| NCommander | WOO, I've over fifth | 02:09 |
| NCommander | *fifthy | 02:09 |
| NCommander | ... 50! | 02:09 |
| * JontheEchidna is #45 | 02:09 | |
| NCommander | argh | 02:10 |
| NCommander | YOur three ahead of me JontheEchidna | 02:10 |
| JontheEchidna | hehe | 02:10 |
| apachelogger | I also have to note that JontheEchidna is spending a lot of time for other stuff than packaging | 02:10 |
| * NCommander is too | 02:10 | |
| apachelogger | like flooding my inbox | 02:10 |
| apachelogger | a lot | 02:11 |
| * apachelogger is getting pretty annoyed as well :P | 02:11 | |
| NCommander | ScottK, https://edge.launchpad.net/~sonicmctails/+archive | 02:11 |
| JontheEchidna | it's what you get for subscribing to all kde bugs | 02:11 |
| NCommander | apachelogger, I did that to the backports team | 02:11 |
| JontheEchidna | :P | 02:11 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: still valid | 02:11 |
| NCommander | Not every day you get to justifiably send 70-80ish emails | 02:11 |
| apachelogger | :) | 02:11 |
| JontheEchidna | apachelogger: /me is biased somewhat against the implementation.... | 02:12 |
| apachelogger | thing is, someone has to read them :P | 02:12 |
| apachelogger | well | 02:12 |
| ScottK-laptop | NCommander: BTW, I've been through and ack'ed all those now. | 02:12 |
| NCommander | The backports queue is finally under control | 02:12 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: KDE 3 apps should probably get something oxygenish | 02:12 |
| NCommander | ScottK, I saw | 02:12 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: plastik is too different and the colors don't blend nicely at all | 02:12 |
| NCommander | ScottK-laptop, once I get some free time (or lack of life, which ever comes first), I'll start backporting the ones that need real work and doing actual fixs | 02:12 |
| ScottK-laptop | K. | 02:13 |
| NCommander | ScottK-laptop, BTW, add backports as another reason I should apply for core-dev ;-) | 02:13 |
| * NCommander runs | 02:13 | |
| apachelogger | hooray kblogger-kde4 FTBFS | 02:14 |
| apachelogger | -.- | 02:14 |
| ScottK-laptop | Yep. | 02:14 |
| NCommander | apachelogger, link to build log? | 02:15 |
| * NCommander needs to take spot $46 | 02:15 | |
| ScottK-laptop | NCommander: The big difference between getting MOTU and core-dev is you have to be able to show you understand something about distro level integration. | 02:15 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: I don't feel like uploading :P | 02:15 |
| * apachelogger will just make an SVN snapshot tomorrow | 02:15 | |
| apachelogger | that alpha is way too old anyway | 02:15 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: jr is taking care of digikam, right? | 02:16 |
| JontheEchidna | apachelogger: ya, that's what he said | 02:16 |
| * apachelogger nukes it from his todo | 02:16 | |
| NCommander | ScottK-laptop, define distro level integration. If you mean figuring out to spec out a feature and apply it distribution wide, I feel my current work w.r.t. to GNAT, and -fPIE are examples of said knowledge | 02:16 |
| ScottK-laptop | apachelogger: The koffice thingy is uploaded. | 02:17 |
| apachelogger | ScottK-laptop: thank you | 02:17 |
| ScottK-laptop | No trouble. Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu. | 02:17 |
| NCommander | ScottK, how about meta-kde4? | 02:17 |
| ScottK-laptop | NCommander: Yes, probably so. I suspect you could get MOTU in a month or two and core-dev early in Intrepid +1. | 02:18 |
| ScottK-laptop | So I suggest not waiting. | 02:18 |
| JontheEchidna | meta-kde4 should have been nuked, from what jr said | 02:18 |
| JontheEchidna | and if it hasn't, it should be | 02:18 |
| NCommander | er | 02:18 |
| ScottK-laptop | Well NCommander un nuked it. | 02:18 |
| NCommander | s/4/g | 02:18 |
| ScottK-laptop | NCommander: Looking at it. | 02:18 |
| NCommander | kde-meta | 02:18 |
| apachelogger | Deleted on 2008-09-04 by Jonathan Riddell (use meta-kde now) | 02:19 |
| NCommander | Oh, OUCH | 02:19 |
| NCommander | koffice2 and openoffice.org are building at the same time | 02:19 |
| apachelogger | http://kconfigure.sourceforge.net/ | 02:19 |
| apachelogger | omg | 02:19 |
| apachelogger | my eyes | 02:19 |
| apachelogger | my precious eyes | 02:19 |
| NCommander | Wooo, thats pretty | 02:19 |
| JontheEchidna | apachelogger: know any distro with an oxygen-y kde3 theme which we could rip off? | 02:19 |
| NCommander | Speaking of nuke | 02:20 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: I don't even think there is something like that | 02:20 |
| * NCommander should write a speak on removing GCL and its rdepends from the distirbution as buggy, unmaintainable, license infested garbage | 02:20 | |
| NCommander | and yes, I would kill a compiler just like that :-P | 02:20 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: I think qtcurve or whatever the name is doesn't look all that bad | 02:20 |
| * JontheEchidna thought we were using qtcurve already | 02:21 | |
| apachelogger | *shrug* | 02:21 |
| apachelogger | I didn't see a KDE 3 app in months | 02:21 |
| apachelogger | :P | 02:21 |
| JontheEchidna | hmm, maybe we aren't | 02:22 |
| * JontheEchidna downloads the kde4 version | 02:22 | |
| JontheEchidna | we're using plastique right now | 02:23 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: KDE 3 didn't have plastique | 02:23 |
| apachelogger | only plastik | 02:23 |
| JontheEchidna | oh | 02:23 |
| JontheEchidna | then that | 02:23 |
| JontheEchidna | plastique > plastik though | 02:23 |
| apachelogger | yeah, looks awful | 02:23 |
| * apachelogger never likes palstik | 02:23 | |
| apachelogger | *liked | 02:23 |
| NCommander | Nope | 02:23 |
| * NCommander looks at the packages in restricted | 02:25 | |
| ScottK-laptop | NCommander: Do me a favor and delete the stuff you're done with from your PPA. People installing stuff from unsigned repos has me very nervous. | 02:25 |
| apachelogger | :) | 02:25 |
| NCommander | ScottK, the stuff in my PPA is uninstallable | 02:25 |
| ScottK-laptop | NCommander: Excellent. | 02:26 |
| NCommander | # hardy-backports (web): Adobe Flash Player plugin installer [multiverse] | 02:26 |
| NCommander | 10.0.1.218+10.0.0.525ubuntu1~hardy1+really9.0.124.0ubuntu2: amd64 i386 | 02:26 |
| NCommander | O_O; | 02:26 |
| NCommander | THat version string seems kinda .... O_O; | 02:26 |
| JontheEchidna | oO | 02:26 |
| apachelogger | rofl | 02:26 |
| ScottK-laptop | NCommander: That was not my best backports day. | 02:26 |
| * NCommander looks at ScottK | 02:26 | |
| ScottK-laptop | NCommander: meta-kde uploaded. | 02:26 |
| NCommander | That's almost as good as the koffice2 version string | 02:26 |
| apachelogger | only almost | 02:26 |
| ScottK-laptop | Had to revert a Flash10 beta backport that was killing lots of systems. | 02:26 |
| NCommander | d'oh | 02:26 |
| NCommander | Fail :-P | 02:26 |
| NCommander | I'm suprised people enable backports, and then make that the DEFAULT | 02:27 |
| NCommander | (I at least pin the backports repo lower) | 02:27 |
| ScottK-laptop | Pinning can be a bit complex. | 02:29 |
| ScottK-laptop | We need an easier way to accomplish that. | 02:29 |
| NCommander | copy the entry to pins? | 02:32 |
| NCommander | And then apt-get -t hardy-backports install *backport* | 02:32 |
| NCommander | which pulls in any updated dependencies if needed | 02:32 |
| ScottK-laptop | Right, so where's the GUI for setting up the pin? | 02:38 |
| ScottK-laptop | Remember the level of user we're mostly dealing with. | 02:39 |
| ScottK-laptop | NCommander: I give. How do I make kde4bindings not try to build he mono stuff on hppa? | 02:39 |
| NCommander | It's decipatively simply | 02:40 |
| NCommander | *simple | 02:40 |
| NCommander | CMake already turns off the mono targets when it can't find mono | 02:40 |
| NCommander | There's your first hint | 02:40 |
| ScottK-laptop | OK. I already [!hppa] all the mono build-deps | 02:40 |
| NCommander | Ok | 02:40 |
| ScottK-laptop | Doesn't that still leave me an empty package? | 02:41 |
| NCommander | Now just add [!hppa] to the Arch field on the kde4bindings | 02:41 |
| NCommander | SO it becomes any !hppa | 02:41 |
| NCommander | Package: libqyoto4.3-cil | 02:42 |
| NCommander | Section: libs | 02:42 |
| NCommander | Architecture: any !hppa | 02:42 |
| NCommander | and repeat for each CLI package | 02:42 |
| NCommander | so that breaks down to libqyoto, libqyoto-dev, qyoto-dev-tools, qyoto-examples | 02:43 |
| ScottK-laptop | Examples is ach all | 02:44 |
| ScottK-laptop | ach/arch | 02:44 |
| NCommander | Oh | 02:44 |
| * NCommander shrugs | 02:44 | |
| NCommander | ScottK-laptop, ok, that makes more sense, but I can't see that many non-techie users having backports enable | 02:44 |
| ScottK-laptop | I swear I tried that once before and it didn't work. | 02:44 |
| ScottK-laptop | NCommander: You'd be suprised. | 02:44 |
| ScottK-laptop | Lots of people want the latest crack. | 02:45 |
| NCommander | what we need is a debian based distro with a rolling release | 02:45 |
| ScottK-laptop | Getdeb wouldn't be so popular if that weren't the case. | 02:45 |
| ScottK-laptop | NCommander: It's called Sid. | 02:45 |
| NCommander | :-P | 02:45 |
| NCommander | ScottK-laptop, getdeb? | 02:46 |
| ScottK-laptop | getdeb.net. They have a really pretty web site with a good web based way to install individual debs. | 02:47 |
| ScottK-laptop | They focus on packaging the very latest stuff for the current (non-devel) Ubuntu release. | 02:47 |
| ScottK-laptop | Their packages are generally crap. | 02:48 |
| NCommander | OH GOD IT BURNS | 02:48 |
| ScottK-laptop | But did I mention they have a really pretty web site? | 02:48 |
| ScottK-laptop | The one person in the history of the Ubuntu project who got fired from being a volunteer developer was one of their people. | 02:48 |
| NCommander | O_O; | 02:48 |
| NCommander | That was the guy you told me about, right? | 02:49 |
| ScottK-laptop | Yeah | 02:49 |
| NCommander | maybe someone should write a backports GUI | 02:49 |
| NCommander | like a backports manager, that displays up-to-date software for Ubuntu, and gives a one click install similar to synpatics | 02:50 |
| NCommander | http://www.getdeb.net/about.php | 02:51 |
| NCommander | For the love of god | 02:51 |
| NCommander | OW | 02:51 |
| ScottK-laptop | ;-) | 02:51 |
| NCommander | GetDeb packages are built using Debian/Ubuntu building rules, this reduces development effort and assures the same level of quality. However when new packages are developed or major upgrades are performed we do not follow a strict quality assurance process, this is the accepted cost required to achieve shorter release times. Still with a broader user base problems are quickly identified as fixed. It should also be not | 02:51 |
| NCommander | ed that we do not provide system core packages or major libraries which could cause dependency problems or other major issues, in case you find a broken package recovery should be easily achieved by reinstalling the Ubuntu official package. | 02:51 |
| NCommander | O________O; | 02:51 |
| NCommander | owowoowowowowowowoowowow | 02:51 |
| * NCommander did manage to convert one of his fellow firefighters to Ubuntu from XP | 02:52 | |
| NCommander | Hosed XP install, baited him with the free aspect, sold him with synpatics packages | 02:52 |
| apachelogger | ♥ getdeb | 02:53 |
| apachelogger | Kubuntu even has Amarok packages at release time ... including QA :P | 02:53 |
| NCommander | I've found while geeks perfer Xubuntu | 02:54 |
| NCommander | er, Kubuntu | 02:54 |
| NCommander | Its easier to teach them just regular Ubuntu, or Xubuntu on old hardware | 02:54 |
| NCommander | are there any big outstanding Ubuntu tasks? | 03:02 |
| NCommander | er, Kubuntu | 03:03 |
| ScottK-laptop | Urgh. | 03:08 |
| NCommander | WHat ScottK ? | 03:08 |
| * ScottK-laptop looks up and finds 102 new emails. | 03:08 | |
| * apachelogger only got 124 today :) | 03:09 | |
| ScottK-laptop | NCommander: There's a TODO on the wiki somewhere. | 03:09 |
| ScottK-laptop | apachelogger: ? | 03:09 |
| apachelogger | emails | 03:09 |
| ScottK-laptop | No, the TODO, where is it? | 03:09 |
| apachelogger | oh | 03:09 |
| apachelogger | it used to be in the topic :P | 03:09 |
| ScottK-laptop | You've got a volunteer, put him to work ... | 03:09 |
| apachelogger | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Todo | 03:09 |
| apachelogger | NCommander: ^ | 03:09 |
| apachelogger | start work | 03:10 |
| NCommander | The Ubuntiquty one looks interesting | 03:11 |
| * NCommander looks on LP | 03:11 | |
| === apachelogger changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Welcome to the Kubuntu developers channel | Testers needed for KGrubEditor - If tested post comment on https://launchpad.net/bugs/263827 | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Todo | ||
| * NCommander grabs the source | 03:13 | |
| * JontheEchidna would say the todo is looking pretty good | 03:13 | |
| NCommander | I'm going to grab some dinner | 03:14 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: well, it is certainly not as unordered as mine :P | 03:17 |
| NCommander | speaking of things to do, ScottK, how go the bindings? | 03:17 |
| ScottK-laptop | Test building now. | 03:18 |
| ScottK-laptop | I cleanup up some other stuff while I was at it. | 03:18 |
| ScottK-laptop | cleanup/cleaned | 03:18 |
| * JontheEchidna goes nini | 03:23 | |
| ScottK-laptop | NCommander: I see we're starting to get some of the other kdeedu builds done since indi is fixed. | 03:26 |
| * ScottK-laptop learns to play with the seeds while kde4bindings builds. | 03:34 | |
| NCommander | ScottK, you must be happy on the now portable KDE4 | 03:36 |
| ScottK-laptop | Yes. | 03:44 |
| ScottK-laptop | Really appreciate the help. | 03:44 |
| ScottK-laptop | Any bzr ninjas around? | 03:44 |
| ScottK-laptop | bzr: ERROR: Unsupported protocol for url "sftp://kitterman@@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.intrepid/server-ship": Unable to import paramiko (required for sftp support): No module named paramiko | 03:45 |
| ScottK-laptop | Nevermind | 03:46 |
| ScottK-laptop | Got it sorted. | 03:46 |
| NCommander | ah | 03:46 |
| ScottK-laptop | Nope. Different error now. | 03:47 |
| NCommander | ScottK, what error? | 03:48 |
| ScottK-laptop | It didn't like sftp | 03:49 |
| ScottK-laptop | Gonna try bzr+ssh | 03:49 |
| ScottK-laptop | Or maybe it didn't like the @@ in there | 03:50 |
| NCommander | ScottK, use bzr branch lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.intrepid/server-ship | 03:51 |
| ScottK-laptop | NCommander: bzr co sftp://kitterman@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.intrepid worked. | 03:55 |
| ScottK-laptop | This way I get to pretend it's svn and I'm ok. | 03:55 |
| NCommander | -_-; | 03:56 |
| * NCommander grabs koffice and smashs it over ScottK's head | 03:56 | |
| NCommander | CHANGE IS GOOD | 03:56 |
| ScottK-laptop | NCommander: First time I encounter bzr outside Ubuntu, I'll consider learning it. | 04:03 |
| ScottK-laptop | It's not that I dislike bzr per se, but that it's VCS +1 | 04:03 |
| * ScottK-laptop adds 'messed with Ubuntu seeds' to the resume. | 04:04 | |
| * NCommander has messed with the xubuntu seeds already | 04:04 | |
| NCommander | hppa 74 builds waiting in queue | 04:05 |
| NCommander | The hppa buildd seems happier than usual | 04:05 |
| * NCommander looks for new hardware to buy | 04:07 | |
| * ScottK-laptop marks https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/clamav-spamassassin-in-main | 04:10 | |
| ScottK-laptop | ... implemented | 04:10 |
| NCommander | yay | 04:11 |
| * NCommander works on PIE some more | 04:27 | |
| ScottK-laptop | hmmmm. Pie. | 04:28 |
| NCommander | got the toolchain working, now I just need glibc, and then another rebuild of the toolchian to do regression testing | 04:28 |
| metellius | apachelogger: ping | 04:45 |
| metellius | apachelogger: I would like to know in what way you actually patched the zipplugin to get it working right | 04:46 |
| metellius | apachelogger: oh never mind, I just saw that my old hack remains. did you or anyone actually touch it other than the build-depends line? | 04:50 |
| goatsocks | is there not yet a way to "mark all updates" for installation in adept 3.0's updater? | 07:38 |
| goatsocks | i have ~50 updates here and i sure as hell am not going to mark them individually :) | 07:38 |
| seele | Nightrose: ah damn | 07:45 |
| seele | Riddell: did clee pass planet on to you? | 07:45 |
| mornfall | goatsocks: The easy option is to go to Sources or something and fetch updated lists. | 07:56 |
| mornfall | It's just a bug that it's not done all automatically. I'll try to get beta2 out this weekend. | 07:56 |
| goatsocks | mornfall: i mean that it found a bunch of updates and presented them to me, but there's no way to apply them all in once single operation | 07:58 |
| goatsocks | s/once single/one single/ | 07:58 |
| mornfall | goatsocks: Again: Go to "Fetch Lists" tab, click "fetch current package lists". The updates will be marked. | 08:02 |
| goatsocks | mornfall: sorry, that didn't make any sense to me at first... but that worked, thanks :) | 08:04 |
| mornfall | Welcome. It'll be fixed by next week, I hope. | 08:06 |
| goatsocks | mornfall: btw, is anyone working on nicer status icons? | 08:06 |
| mornfall | (I mean, it's fixed in my tree, just no packages.) | 08:06 |
| mornfall | goatsocks: Oh, they aren't nice enough? Noone complained so fra. | 08:06 |
| mornfall | so far* | 08:06 |
| mornfall | And well, no-one seems to be interested in working on it, anyway. | 08:06 |
| goatsocks | mornfall: well the colors are somewhat dull, and hard to make out what they are, they need more contrast imo, something more oxygen-like perhaps | 08:07 |
| mornfall | goatsocks: Do you have some better idea on how to cramp into the small icon an idea of "upgradable" package, eg? Etc... | 08:07 |
| mornfall | Well, if someone gives me a better icon set, I won't complain. | 08:08 |
| goatsocks | mornfall: well "better" is always relative :) | 08:08 |
| mornfall | But I wouldn't hold breath on that. I did the current one myself. | 08:09 |
| goatsocks | but since i really dislike the way synaptic looks on my kde 4.1 i think i'll fool around with something in the oxygen style and get back to you | 08:09 |
| goatsocks | because i'd rather use adept | 08:09 |
| goatsocks | mornfall: the new systray icon looks nice btw | 08:11 |
| mornfall | Incidentally, that's not part of adept right now. | 08:12 |
| goatsocks | it uses the system icon theme right? | 08:12 |
| mornfall | Is it a systray icon, btw? | 08:12 |
| mornfall | I've thought they'd come with a plasmoid. | 08:12 |
| mornfall | But, whatever. | 08:12 |
| goatsocks | the update notifier isn't part of adept? | 08:12 |
| mornfall | Not right now. | 08:15 |
| DreadKnight | heya | 08:28 |
| DreadKnight | i can't manage to upgrade to intrepid using "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" | 08:28 |
| DreadKnight | any work arounds? | 08:28 |
| NCommander | DreadKnight, try sudo aptitude safe-upgrade, it can work around broken packages | 08:47 |
| DreadKnight | NCommander: that seems to work; thanks mate :-) | 08:48 |
| NCommander | no problem | 08:49 |
| DreadKnight | hmm | 08:49 |
| DreadKnight | actually still the same thing.. it just "autoremoved" my stuff | 08:49 |
| DreadKnight | NCommander: do i need to add some repository? i'm using the kubuntu-members ppa thingy; kde4.1.1 i think | 08:50 |
| NCommander | DreadKnight, did you run aptitude/apt-get update first to pull the latest package defintion files? | 08:50 |
| NCommander | DreadKnight, no, the main archive should superseed the PPA now that we pushed those changes into main | 08:50 |
| DreadKnight | did that... | 08:51 |
| NCommander | no errors? | 08:51 |
| DreadKnight | not sure why it's not upgrading... no errors.. | 08:51 |
| DreadKnight | T_T | 08:51 |
| NCommander | Define not upgrading? | 08:51 |
| NCommander | (can you post the output of apt-get dist-upgrade/aptitude safe-upgrade?) | 08:52 |
| NCommander | DreadKnight, and just to make sure we're on the same page, what architecture are you using? | 08:52 |
| DreadKnight | NCommander: http://pastebin.com/m39fd73ef | 08:52 |
| DreadKnight | um... i386 i guess | 08:52 |
| NCommander | DreadKnight, please post the output of aptitude/apt-get update | 08:54 |
| DreadKnight | damn spam filter... | 08:56 |
| DreadKnight | the problem might be that i'm using the romanian servers... | 08:56 |
| DreadKnight | NCommander: http://paste-bin.com/view/c422468b | 08:58 |
| goatsocks | DreadKnight: you can also use http://paste.ubuntu.com/ | 08:58 |
| DreadKnight | goatsocks: thanks ^^ | 08:58 |
| NCommander | DreadKnight, er, your running Hardy | 08:59 |
| NCommander | Not intrepid | 08:59 |
| DreadKnight | yes, i want to upgrade to hardy ^^' | 08:59 |
| NCommander | Oh, from gutsy? | 09:00 |
| DreadKnight | sorry | 09:00 |
| DreadKnight | want to upgrade from hardy to intrepid | 09:00 |
| NCommander | Oh! | 09:00 |
| NCommander | YOu need to edit your sources file to change all the instances of hardy to intrepid ;-) | 09:00 |
| DreadKnight | hehe | 09:00 |
| NCommander | so sudo *editor* /etc/apt/sources.list | 09:00 |
| DreadKnight | and replace.. ok | 09:01 |
| NCommander | then search and replace hardy with intrepid | 09:01 |
| DreadKnight | thought there is an easier way | 09:01 |
| NCommander | and comment out the backports lines | 09:01 |
| NCommander | DreadKnight, once intrepid is released there will be | 09:01 |
| DreadKnight | like what? :-) | 09:01 |
| DreadKnight | seen about the systray notification thingy | 09:02 |
| NCommander | DreadKnight, you lost me | 09:03 |
| DreadKnight | ok :D | 09:04 |
| DreadKnight | only managed to edit using vim; kate / kate-kde4 didn't start heh | 09:15 |
| Nightrose | seele: he can add new people to the planet now and change stuff but can't fix people dropping off the planet :( so you will need to ask clee | 09:26 |
| Nightrose | morning btw :) | 09:27 |
| seele | only morning if i ever went to bed | 09:27 |
| goatsocks | DreadKnight: no matter, kate already has vi keybindings in svn, it's only a matter of time before they just embed vim :) | 09:28 |
| DreadKnight | :-) didn't knew about that | 09:28 |
| seele | Nightrose: ok, i guess i have to ping clee | 09:29 |
| DreadKnight | goatsocks: i think it's great; i'm not just used to it... usually google for a command list and stare at it xD | 09:29 |
| goatsocks | DreadKnight: the learning curve for vi/vim is pretty damn steep, but once you get the hang of the command subset you'll actually use from day to day, you can't live without it | 09:30 |
| goatsocks | then you'll turn into a freak and install stuff like the vimperator plugin for firefox | 09:31 |
| DreadKnight | goatsocks: hehe; i compared blender to it last night to a programmer; vimperator ? lol | 09:31 |
| goatsocks | and so on, until it consumes your soul, and you are a mere automaton | 09:32 |
| DreadKnight | i was about to say i don't think i'll get to use it so often | 09:32 |
| DreadKnight | xD i'm actually on the art side, not a coder | 09:32 |
| goatsocks | blender is pretty challenging too | 09:32 |
| goatsocks | i gave up on it :) | 09:32 |
| goatsocks | ping me when blender gets vim keybindings | 09:32 |
| DreadKnight | i am professional / freelancer; using it most of the day | 09:32 |
| DreadKnight | lol | 09:32 |
| DreadKnight | it might get one; somebody suggested typing in actions like you do in katapult at a conference i remember | 09:33 |
| DreadKnight | i think that's a bit lame :D | 09:33 |
| goatsocks | yeah i know, two different jobs, two different UI paradigms | 09:33 |
| DreadKnight | yep | 09:34 |
| goatsocks | it is strage though how well the vi keybindings can be applied to all manner of browsing tasks in firefox | 09:36 |
| DreadKnight | hmm O_o | 09:36 |
| seele | ugh, time for bed | 09:55 |
| DreadKnight | bbl | 09:56 |
| === mcas is now known as mcas_away | ||
| goatsocks | mornfall: do you plan to use expanded.svg and unexpanded.svg for anything? | 10:22 |
| mornfall | goatsocks: No idea what they look like, actually. And, not sure either. | 11:10 |
| goatsocks | mornfall: you don't? i thought you made these icons yourself ;) | 11:17 |
| mornfall | goatsocks: It's maybe two years since then. | 11:18 |
| goatsocks | ah ok | 11:19 |
| Riddell | seele: no, I can add and remove people, but I can't fix planet when it breaks | 11:27 |
| JontheEchidna | This bugs needs a won'tfix: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/267038 | 12:24 |
| === mcas_away is now known as mcas | ||
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 267038 in kdebase "Intrepid should keep support for kde 3.5" [Undecided,New] | 12:24 |
| * Riddell makes it sew | 12:31 | |
| apachelogger | metellius: I didn't upload the fix anyway .... but I only applied the changes made by dirk | 13:28 |
| * apachelogger needs to buy batteries for his mouse | 13:40 | |
| apachelogger | Riddell: if you have time, please take a look at the kdelibs FTBFS, the patches apply just fine here. http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17330572/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.kdelibs_4:3.5.10-0ubuntu2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz | 13:40 |
| a|wen | apachelogger: are you looking at other kde 3.5.10 fixing than that one? | 14:23 |
| * a|wen was planning to cherrypick as many fixes possible for the bugs on this list: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=kde3.5.10 | 14:24 | |
| === akonadi is now known as nihui | ||
| goatsocks | mornfall: just emailed you a patch to make adept use the kde theme icons | 15:39 |
| asfak | i have updated my alpha4 including kernel 2.6.27-2. would it be same as alpha5 ? | 15:50 |
| goatsocks | asfak: as long as you're up to date from up to date mirrors, yeah | 15:52 |
| asfak | yes, i am updated. Anyway even in alpha5 my windows drive does not automount. I am repeatedly asking for this feature from developers. but no reply. | 15:57 |
| === mcas is now known as mcas_away | ||
| goatsocks | asfak: file a bug on launchpad, sounds like a regression | 16:03 |
| mornfall | goatsocks: Uhm. You merged installed and not-installed states. That's not very good... | 16:42 |
| goatsocks | mornfall: look again, the icons are the same, but when it's used for not installed the icon is disabled (desaturated) | 16:43 |
| mornfall | I'm still compiling... | 16:44 |
| mornfall | goatsocks: Well, the desaturation breaks the state filter, sort of. | 16:45 |
| goatsocks | mornfall: not really, because there's evidently 2 levels of desaturation ;) | 16:45 |
| mornfall | Well, the icon shows up dithered here. | 16:46 |
| mornfall | And gray. | 16:46 |
| mornfall | It only changes slightly when disabled. | 16:46 |
| mornfall | Also, you have lost the color coding... | 16:47 |
| mornfall | The colors are supposed to match those of the status text. | 16:47 |
| goatsocks | colored text is generally bad for accessibility | 16:47 |
| mornfall | Why exactly is that? | 16:48 |
| goatsocks | contrast... i can't read that green-on-white text | 16:48 |
| goatsocks | and i can barely read the colored text in the filter pane | 16:48 |
| mornfall | Make your fonts bigger? | 16:49 |
| goatsocks | font size is fine, it's contrast that's the problem | 16:49 |
| goatsocks | like using vim/emacs with the wrong color scheme | 16:49 |
| goatsocks | unfortunately there's not much room for flexibility with text in UIs | 16:50 |
| mornfall | Dunno. I have never heard of such a problem -- yes, the color information might be inaccessible to some people, but it's just a color key, not an additional information. | 16:51 |
| mornfall | And you can see the plus sign, green on gray? | 16:52 |
| goatsocks | well setting aside the issue with the color, i would suggest that the text be removed altogether and just let the icons communicate the state, at least in the unexpanded view | 16:52 |
| mornfall | Or on white? | 16:52 |
| mornfall | Bler. | 16:52 |
| goatsocks | yeah, but that plus sign isn't just monochromatic green, it's many levels of green ;) | 16:52 |
| mornfall | That doesn't exactly improve contrast. | 16:53 |
| goatsocks | it fools the eye (not to mention that the human eye can see more shades of green than red or blue) | 16:53 |
| mornfall | Well, I'm not really convinced about the proposed changes. If more people think that the current icons are bad (or that yours are better), it could make sense. Dunno. | 17:02 |
| mornfall | Maybe set up a poll somewhere. Although I somehow doubt that's a good way to get usable application. | 17:02 |
| mornfall | Right now, it is at least based on a single person's taste, not an incoherent mix... | 17:02 |
| goatsocks | i didn't think you'd like it ;) but the icons used by the patch imo are more coherent than what you've got now, because it uses all Oxygen (or whatever icon theme the user has selected), whereas your is part Oxygen, part homebrew | 17:04 |
| ScottK | mornfall and goatsocks: I'd suggest ask seele to review it. She's an expert on such things. I think expert review is better than a popularity contest. | 17:07 |
| goatsocks | ScottK: i agree, it's best to get someone with more objectivity ;) | 17:08 |
| mornfall | We probably have a different coherency definition. | 17:20 |
| mornfall | Well, seele keeps ignoring me about Adept, so I guess that won't really fly. | 17:20 |
| mornfall | Actually, I guess it might be a good idea to finally orphan it. | 17:21 |
| ScottK | Urgh. | 17:21 |
| ScottK | Please don't. | 17:21 |
| ScottK | apachelogger: It looks like we need someone to do a MIR for dirmngr since kleopatra needs it. | 17:22 |
| mornfall | Well, maybe that will prod someone into adoping it. Yuriy might be able to maintain it. | 17:23 |
| === emma is now known as |riVen| | ||
| mornfall | As you can see, I probably can't do a very good job anymore. | 17:23 |
| goatsocks | mornfall: what matters most is that it works... the UI is "good enough" imo, it could use some tweaking, that's all | 17:25 |
| === |riVen| is now known as emma | ||
| === mcas_away is now known as mcas | ||
| asfak | i have been asking repeatedly on this channel concerning automounting windows partition issue in kubuntu alpha4 and 5. But recently someone mentioned it to be regression. But i think it never worked in earlier alphas. I have this problem on both of my pc. But never heard of others having such problem. Is it because i am manually partitioning hard disk rather than using default option ?. | 18:51 |
| goatsocks | asfak: if it worked on hardy it's probably a regression | 18:54 |
| asfak | i have never tried kubuntu hardy. but worked on ubuntu hardy, gutsy. | 18:55 |
| goatsocks | filing a bug is the best way to get attention on the issue, not irc | 18:56 |
| asfak | what about you ? does it work for you ? | 18:56 |
| goatsocks | i don't have a window partition | 18:56 |
| goatsocks | *windows | 18:56 |
| asfak | anyway, goatsocks could u kdesudo/kdesu/sudo dolphin ? It freezes since last week | 18:59 |
| goatsocks | it doesn't work here either | 19:00 |
| goatsocks | nm, it does now, but not when i tried it a couple of days ago | 19:01 |
| asfak | it does open for me. | 19:03 |
| asfak | i opened kdesudo konqueror and changed dolphin permission to all access. Now dolphin doesn't even open. | 19:06 |
| apachelogger | ScottK: We also need one for Kopete's jabber ssl stuff, so I'll probably write both tomorrow | 19:13 |
| ScottK | apachelogger: Great. Thanks. | 19:13 |
| asfak | apachelogger, qca-TLS is needed for gtalk users. We need to install them. Being a very common need, why don't we have that plugin installed by default ? | 19:14 |
| apachelogger | asfak: Please file bug reports instead of poking random people. | 19:15 |
| apachelogger | The ssl stuff I was talking about is exactly what is causing the hold up for qca | 19:15 |
| asfak | it's not bug. It's feature request. I am reporting bugs as and when required but wan't myself to be more clear. If u don't wan me here i quit. Thank you | 19:17 |
| apachelogger | asfak: Feature requests are essentially just bugs. And you should prefer them over poking people because one single person might not care or forget to fix it. | 19:20 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: bug 264413 ... I am *-*.org moderator, so actually we coul do something about it ;-) | 19:20 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 264413 in kdebase-workspace "KDE4 Plasma: can't install widgets from internet via GHNS" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/264413 | 19:20 |
| asfak | ok, apachelogger, I will take your word. | 19:26 |
| ScottK | a|wen: Thanks for the 3.5.10 work. | 19:30 |
| a|wen | ScottK: no problem | 19:30 |
| apachelogger | ScottK: If you got a minute, it would be very nice if you could please take a look at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdelibs/4:3.5.10-0ubuntu2 | 19:31 |
| apachelogger | I have no idea why the patch doesn't apply on the buildds, it certainly does in my pbuilder | 19:31 |
| a|wen | ScottK: have you seen any other 3.5.10 regressions than those with the kde3.5.10 tag? | 19:32 |
| a|wen | apachelogger: the patch doesn't apply cleanly when I test it with cdbs-edit-patch | 19:35 |
| a|wen | The next patch would create the file mimetypes/application/x-nzb.desktop, | 19:35 |
| a|wen | which already exists! | 19:35 |
| * apachelogger is wondering why that builds in pbuilder Oo | 19:36 | |
| a|wen | apachelogger: yeah... that is pretty strange | 19:38 |
| Artemis_Fowl | seele: tomorrow I will most probably be hanging around IRC. it would be nice if we could talk about a couple of things | 19:39 |
| apachelogger | a|wen: doesn't seem to have problems applying for me | 19:42 |
| a|wen | does anyone know in which source package to look for the source for QString (qstring.cpp) in kde3 | 19:43 |
| a|wen | apachelogger: i just downloaded the source from LP and ran "cdbs-edit-patch kubuntu_65_nzb_mimetype.diff" and that gave me the error | 19:44 |
| apachelogger | maybe something broken when jr applied my debdiff | 19:45 |
| apachelogger | a|wen: qt-x11-free I think | 19:45 |
| apachelogger | ohhhh | 19:47 |
| apachelogger | a|wen: http://paste.ubuntu.com/43987/ | 19:49 |
| apachelogger | apparently jr applied my debdiff to an unclean source tree | 19:49 |
| a|wen | apachelogger: that can certainly explain a great deal | 19:51 |
| a|wen | apachelogger: and thx ... that was the source package i was looking for | 19:51 |
| ScottK-laptop | a|wen: The only regressions I know of are tagged, but I don't get all the bugmail. | 19:51 |
| ScottK-laptop | apachelogger: Let me know if you need another upload then. | 19:52 |
| apachelogger | Preparing the debdiff right now. | 19:53 |
| ScottK-laptop | K. | 19:53 |
| a|wen | ScottK-laptop: okay ... the only commit that looked interesting in the svn apart from those already pulled was a kmail crash fix | 19:54 |
| ScottK-laptop | BTW, gcc4.3 was broken on the buildd's earlier today, so unless that's been fixed, don't expect great results. | 19:54 |
| ScottK-laptop | a|wen: I'm in favor of kmail crash fixes. | 19:54 |
| ScottK-laptop | a|wen: If you point me at the change in svn, I'll grab it. | 19:55 |
| * ScottK-laptop looks at weather.com and discovers the tropical storm is passing right about now. | 19:56 | |
| ScottK-laptop | Not too bad actually, looks like it mostly decided to go to the east of us at the last minute. | 19:56 |
| a|wen | ScottK-laptop: it is commit 853610 | 19:59 |
| ScottK-laptop | a|wen: Thanks. | 19:59 |
| * ScottK-laptop is doing $WORK right now. I'll have a look tonight. | 19:59 | |
| a|wen | ScottK-laptop: and then there is commit 856958 ... but that is the one in process of being tested and hopefully fixes the mail list problems | 20:00 |
| apachelogger | ScottK-laptop: http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/debdiffs/kdelibs_3.5.10-0ubuntu2_to_ubuntu3.diff | 20:00 |
| ScottK-laptop | a|wen: OK. I'll look at that too. | 20:01 |
| ScottK-laptop | apachelogger: OK, but I'm going to wait until after doko fixes gcc4.3 | 20:01 |
| apachelogger | roger | 20:01 |
| apachelogger | Are we closing incomplete bugs now already after one month? | 20:07 |
| * a|wen wonders if it is a good sign if QString crashes when trying to return a copy of itself | 20:07 | |
| claydoh | can bugs in ppa packages be made on launchpad, or just have kubuntu-members-kde4 subscribed to them | 20:15 |
| claydoh | bug 266968 | 20:17 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 266968 in kdeedu-kde4 "kstars-kde4 wrong dependencies" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/266968 | 20:17 |
| claydoh | never mind apachelogger is on it IU am too slow | 20:19 |
| claydoh | s/I/IU | 20:19 |
| ScottK-laptop | apachelogger: I think we should not close incomplete bugs so fast. If you don't know enough to know if there's really a bug that's one thing, but if it's a real bug that you'd like to know more about, IMO they ought to stay open. | 20:30 |
| apachelogger | ScottK-laptop: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Incomplete bugs without a response from submitter | 20:30 |
| apachelogger | "In the event that a bug has been in the "Incomplete" state for more than 4 weeks, meaning it has not received a response to a request for more information, the bug status should be changed to "Invalid" with a comment similar to:" | 20:30 |
| apachelogger | IMHO are some triagers too quick in closing bugs which are pretty serious if they still exist | 20:31 |
| ScottK-laptop | I know. I don't like it. | 20:32 |
| === Xand3r is now known as Xand3r_away | ||
| === Xand3r_away is now known as Xand3r | ||
| smarter | looks like, I'll be able to release Kvkbd 0.6 sooner than I thought, the TODO list is quickly =) | 21:03 |
| smarter | *quickly emptying | 21:03 |
| nixternal | how is everyone's weekend thus far? | 21:29 |
| davidedmundson | wet. | 21:29 |
| nixternal | hehe | 21:29 |
| claydoh | hot and sweaty :( | 21:29 |
| nixternal | east coast by chance? | 21:29 |
| davidedmundson | UK. | 21:29 |
| claydoh | lol | 21:29 |
| davidedmundson | so not that much of a suprise for me | 21:30 |
| davidedmundson | *surprise | 21:30 |
| nixternal | ScottK-laptop: how is that rain there in DC? | 21:30 |
| * JontheEchidna is hot & humid | 21:30 | |
| ScottK-laptop | nixternal: Looks like it's pretty much over. | 21:30 |
| davidedmundson | I hope you wanted everyone's response to be weather oriented.. | 21:30 |
| mcas | can anyone tell my why my icons in kde4.1.1 inside my kde bar changes their color? | 21:30 |
| ScottK-laptop | Not a big deal at all. | 21:30 |
| nixternal | groovy | 21:30 |
| nixternal | I gotta run to the car dealership and pick up my plates | 21:31 |
| JontheEchidna | mcas: changes color? | 21:31 |
| nixternal | I wanted to go riding today, but I slept most of the day :/ | 21:31 |
| * nixternal heads out | 21:31 | |
| mcas | for example the kde icon for the kde menu is right now red/orange and not blue | 21:31 |
| JontheEchidna | o.O | 21:31 |
| davidedmundson | mcas: are you using the normal launcher | 21:32 |
| JontheEchidna | Got an nvidia card by any chance? | 21:32 |
| mcas | davidedmundson: i changed nothing its a fresh installation | 21:32 |
| mcas | the icon for the home dir has the same problem | 21:33 |
| davidedmundson | are "desktop effects" enabled? | 21:33 |
| mcas | it could be a ppc problem :-/ | 21:33 |
| mcas | davidedmundson: no | 21:33 |
| === Jucato_ is now known as Jucato | ||
| abwesend_ | http://www.hanf-spiel.de/137695 | 22:31 |
| === Guest2056 is now known as jelmer | ||
| === mcas is now known as mcas_away | ||
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