[00:47] <m0u5e> why does ubuntu have so many image viewing programs by default? don't we really just need one?
[01:29] <_MMA_> ﻿slangasek: Please push the Alpha for Studio. I'm happy with the tests I've done.
[01:29] <slangasek> _MMA_: ack, will do shortly
[01:30] <_MMA_> Thanx.
[01:32] <slangasek> kirkland: nice manpage site!  title searches seem to be exact-match only?
[01:33] <wgrant> Hmm.
[01:34] <wgrant> How do I use it?
[01:34] <wgrant> Nothing on the homepage seems to do anything.
[01:34] <wgrant> Ah, I see. The top-right.
[01:35] <doggymenz> ubuntu needs be able to install apps without root access
[01:35] <doggymenz> and install it for this user only, not for all users
[01:36] <slangasek> m0u5e: what image viewing programs are you referring to, specifically?
[01:37] <wgrant> We have f-spot and eog... or do we still have gthumb?
[01:41] <m0u5e> no we dont have gthumb
[01:41] <m0u5e> but i know that fspot and eog come by default
[01:41] <m0u5e> i thought there was one more...
[01:41] <m0u5e> anyways, last time i checked i think the default viewer doesnt support gifs
[01:41] <m0u5e> animated* gifs
[01:42] <slangasek> f-spot isn't an image viewer, it's a photo manager
[01:42] <slangasek> I'm not thinking that we want to launch f-spot for every image view :)
[01:57] <slangasek> was ttf-liberation still being considered as a default for intrepid?  It's in main but doesn't seem to get pulled in by default
[02:29] <slangasek> _MMA_: studio alpha-5 published, cronjob restarted
[02:29] <slangasek> s/started/enabled/
[02:50] <LaserJock> sebner: ping?
[02:59] <_MMA_> slangasek: Thanx. :)
[03:06] <wgrant> Hmmm, I'm currently using the alpha 5 i386 desktop CD, and it's thoroughly broken.
[03:07] <wgrant> I have alphanumerics, ctrl, alt, shift, but not much else.
[03:07] <wgrant> No arrow keys, home, end, delete...
[03:07] <wgrant> Hmm, and my code doesn't think my touchpad is a touchpad.
[03:07] <wgrant> X seems confused.
[03:10] <LaserJock> wgrant: did it work in pre-alpha5 Intrepid?
[03:11] <wgrant> LaserJock: I last upgraded on this machine about 48 hours ago.
[03:11] <wgrant> So it could have broken in that time.
[03:11] <wgrant> But it works flawlessly on my existing installation on this machine.
[03:15] <wgrant> Hm.
[03:15] <wgrant> Now that I've restarted X, the keyboard works fine.
[03:15] <wgrant> Probably that HAL race.
[03:17] <wgrant> And these images are too old for my touchpad fixes. That explains it.
[03:19] <LaserJock> kirkland: wow, manpages.ubuntu.com is not intuitive at the start. You might want to add some sort of explanation to the top of the pages
[03:19] <wgrant> LaserJock: +1
[03:54] <kirkland> LaserJock: fair enough...  we'll improve the initial index.html page
[03:55] <LaserJock> kirkland: yeah, just needs a "use the search box to find manpages" notice or something
[03:55] <kirkland> LaserJock: I wish I had write access to that machine...  unfortunately, I don't
[03:55] <LaserJock> I thought it was empty and nothing was very clickable
[04:00] <kirkland> LaserJock: thanks for the input... i'll commit some changes to bzr, and drop a note for IT to pull those changes
[04:10] <kirkland> LaserJock: would it have helped any if the starting page was http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/
[04:12] <LaserJock> kirkland: I guess what I was expecting was an alphabetical listing
[04:13] <LaserJock> that page would have at least helped, but it's also somewhat confusing
[04:14] <LaserJock> when you go to an individual release there are language codes
[04:14] <LaserJock> I clicked on en and didn't find much
[04:14] <LaserJock> it's only now I see the manX links
[04:38] <NCommander> hey LaserJock & kirkland
[10:37] <cjwatson> Riddell: could you please commit your change to oem-config that finalised 1.48, preferably using debcommit -r so that it sets the right tag and stuff?
[10:37] <cjwatson> Riddell: thanks for the fixes
[10:39] <cjwatson> Riddell: I don't suppose that fixed bug 245228 along the way?
[10:41] <cjwatson> Riddell: also this looks a bit odd in oem-config-prepare:
[10:41] <cjwatson>                         if [ -x /usr/lib/kde4/libexec/kdesu.distrib ]; then
[10:41] <cjwatson>                                 kdesu=/usr/lib/kde4/libexec/kdesu.distrib
[10:41] <cjwatson>                         elif [ -x /usr/lib/kde4/libexec/kdesu.distrib ]; then
[10:42] <cjwatson>                                 kdesu=/usr/lib/kde4/libexec/kdesu.distrib
[10:42] <cjwatson>                         fi
[11:26] <Riddell> cjwatson: committed.  yes it should fix that bug.  commited a fix for that if elif
[12:13] <cjwatson> Riddell: thanks
[12:20] <balachmar> tkamppeter_: You requested my e-mail: wligtenberg  --AT-- gmail -- dot -- com (Don't know how good those e-mail parsers are...
[12:53] <Martiini> You can tell Steve Langasek that Intrepid alpha-5 cd  (intrepid-desktop-i386.iso) does not boot on HP dv6565en (HP dv65000 series). kernel does not load at all
[12:54] <cjwatson> Martiini: please file a bug rather than trying to tell the release manager directly; one person doesn't have to fix all bugs in Ubuntu :)
[12:54] <cjwatson> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+filebug
[15:38] <askand> Hi, why are you including a recently written software for making usbinstallations when there is one that has been around for a while and works just fine?
[15:38] <askand> I have contacted the developer of liveusb ( https://launchpad.net/liveusb ) and he is happy to merge the projects
[15:42] <Hobbsee> askand: define 'you' here?
[15:44] <torkel> askand: you will probably get a better answer asking on the mailing list than here, especially since it is weekend
[15:51] <askand> Hobbsee: You as in developers :) torkel: ok thanks
[15:52] <Hobbsee> askand: which is the one that we're supposedly writing?
[15:52]  * Hobbsee hasn't heard about this.
[15:54] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Do you have enough experience with seed management (and time, interest, etc.) that you could help me figure out why clamav-doc didn't make it into supported?
[15:54] <askand> Hobbsee: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/intrepid-changes/2008-September/006362.html
[15:54] <Hobbsee> bug 263551
[15:55] <Hobbsee> askand: ahh
[15:55] <Hobbsee> ScottK: well, clamav-doc doesn't exist :)  I presume you mean clamav-docs
[15:56] <ScottK> Ah.
[15:56] <Hobbsee> ScottK: are you asking about intrepid ubuntu?
[15:56] <ScottK> Yes.
[15:56] <ScottK> Hobbsee: clamav is in server-ship now.
[15:57] <ScottK> Germinate picked up everything I expected except that.
[15:57] <Hobbsee> ScottK: are you aware that -docs is only a suggests of clamav?
[15:58] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Yes, but the extra-include in supported has a regex match on -doc packages.
[15:58] <ScottK> Now that you mention it, I expect -docs doesn't match.
[15:58] <ScottK> I'll go look at that.
[15:58] <Hobbsee> that's where i'd start looking.
[15:59] <ScottK> Thanks for the hint.
[15:59] <Hobbsee> y/w
[16:00] <ScottK> This is the first time I touched the seeds directly, so the fact that nothing caught on fire and I merely missed one -doc package feels like a big win.
[16:03] <cjwatson> ScottK: indeed, it'll be because it's called -docs. Feel free to add *-docs to Extra-Include
[16:04] <cjwatson> (or rename the package)
[16:05] <ScottK> cjwatson: OK.  I just added clamav-docs explicitly, I'll go back and add *-docs.  Thanks.
[16:06] <ScottK> Done.
[16:12] <cjwatson> askand: on the other hand, liveusb isn't in Ubuntu ...
[16:12] <cjwatson> askand: it looks like liveusb is a fairly recent project as well, and perhaps Evan just didn't realise it existed until he was already pretty far down the road of writing his own
[16:13] <cjwatson> that sort of thing does happen sometimes
[16:15] <askand>  cjwatson: perhaps, all I know is that liveusb  has been around for a bit longer and therefore had users that reported bugs that has been fixed :) and usb-creator wasnt in ubuntu before 3 sep
[16:15] <cjwatson> right, it just evidently didn't get noticed in the right place
[16:16] <askand> cjwatson: anyhow i wrote a comment in the bugreport if they want to work together :)
[16:17] <cjwatson> I'm unable to see when the feedback request on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/usb-installation-images was left. Did the liveusb developer notice that that specification existed and was assigned to somebody?
[16:18] <askand> It was propably left there today, i told the liveusb developer of the other projects existence today
[16:18] <cjwatson> I agree that it would make sense to pool efforts, although without yet having run either of the programs I can't make a judgement about which is better
[16:18] <cjwatson> they seem to have similar feature sets from just looking through the code
[16:20] <cjwatson> it doesn't look as though anyone mailed any of the usual mailing lists about liveusb
[16:20] <cjwatson> (I checked ubuntu-devel, ubuntu-devel-discuss, and ubuntu-installer)
[16:20] <askand> cjwatson: no, i dont think the liveusb developer was aware that such a feature was wanted for intrepid
[16:21] <askand> as default
[16:21] <cjwatson> right, so he didn't realise we were doing something and we didn't realise he was doing something; such things happen sometimes :-(
[16:21] <askand> yep :)
[16:40] <ScottK> Anyone else having trouble with builds on lpia?
[16:41] <ScottK> I'm not quite sure what to do about "configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables" when the package builds on other archs.
[16:47] <ScottK> OK.  Looks like the next upload had the same issue on lpia:
[16:47] <ScottK> checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
[16:49] <ScottK> doko: It seems since your latest gcc4.3 upload (I think) lpia builds are failing.
[16:49] <ScottK> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17347626/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-lpia.clamav_0.93.3.dfsg-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz is one such build log.
[16:53] <devfil> ScottK: I have the same problem with opencascade
[16:53] <devfil> checking for C compiler default output file name...
[16:53] <devfil> configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables
[17:01] <ScottK> It may just be archive skew too sinced the new gcc build is published on i386 (if there are arch all components),  but lpia is still building.
[17:01] <ScottK> Or not.  I was looking at ia64.
[17:02] <doko> no, it's all in the archive
[17:03] <ScottK> Right.
[17:03] <ScottK> doko: Looking, I don't see that any lpia builds have succeeded since it would have hit.
[17:21] <doko> hmm, there seems to be a problem on i386 as well. I can't reproduce it yet in a local chroot
[17:45] <geser> doko: i486-linux-gnu-gcc: error trying to exec 'cc1': execvp: No such file or directory
[17:46] <geser> from config.log from a build on PPA (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17348817/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.antigrav_0.0.3-2build2~ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz)
[17:46] <doko> yes, seen as well: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17348728/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.fastjar_2%3A0.96-0ubuntu1~ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[17:47] <doko> now tell me why ...
[17:48] <broonie>  /win 19
[17:52] <doko> geser, ScottK: it looks that the buildd doesn't have the 4.3.x symlinks in some cases, look at
[17:52] <doko> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17348877/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.fastjar_2%3A0.96-0ubuntu1~ppa2_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz (ok)
[17:53] <doko> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17348867/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-amd64.fastjar_2%3A0.96-0ubuntu1~ppa2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz (missing)
[17:53] <doko> but they are in the archive ...
[17:53] <ScottK> Odd.
[17:55] <doko> ahh, it's a wrong version in a Replaces ...
[17:55] <doko> now, let's see how to build that ...
[18:04] <wujciol_> I've got question about Bazaar
[18:05] <wujciol_> I pushed revision on branch but on project website lastest revision is not me but older
[18:07] <ScottK> wujciol_: I'd suggest #bzr
[18:25] <doko> gcc-4.1 doesn't like me: cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-Wno-overlength-strings"
[19:24] <ion_> pitti, tkamppeter: I rebased the CUPS patch against svn.
[19:32] <_MMA_> Is art licensed under CC-by-ND allowed in the archive? If not, is there a link to this policy? (even a Debian one if we follow that)
[19:32] <ion_> In multiverse, why not?
[19:33] <_MMA_> Universe.
[19:34] <ion_> IIRC ND means no derivatives, thus it isn’t a free license.
[19:34] <_MMA_> Im guessing no but Im trying to make sure its the same for us. If I had to bet its a no for Debian.
[19:36] <geser> _MMA_: it fails point 3 from the DFSG (http://www.debian.org/social_contract.html#guidelines)
[19:37] <_MMA_> Sure
[19:54] <emet> what if Ubuntu got some kind of welcome screen for newbies
[19:55] <cody-somerville> Then I'd cry
[19:55] <emet> kind of like a out of box experience "Tour Ubuntu" type application
[19:55] <_MMA_> The world would end.
[19:55] <emet> lol
[19:55] <_MMA_> Puppies would die.
[19:55] <cody-somerville> God will kill kittens
[19:56] <Nafallo> oooh
[19:56] <Nafallo> what do I need to do? :-)
[19:57] <_MMA_> Nafallo: Smite all notions of a 1st run/tour Ubuntu app.
[19:57] <Nafallo> I wouldn't like that.
[19:57] <ion_> We could make an arrow slide from the other side of the screen towards the application menu and then bump against it a couple of times. And patent tha.
[19:57] <ion_> t
[19:58] <Nafallo> lol
[19:59] <emet> but I am seeing a lot of misconceptions about how to install software on Ubuntu
[19:59] <cody-somerville> Same here
[19:59] <emet> like newbies going to download.com or something, no joke
[19:59] <cody-somerville> I think we should force new users to enrol in a course :-]
[20:00] <emet> but when you think about it, and you are someone completely new to Linux or Ubuntu, you go and install Ubuntu - how are you suppose to know?
[20:00] <emet> so that's why I think something, maybe a docbook pop up that explains what the hell to do after Ubuntu installs
[20:01] <_MMA_> Isn't what FF does when 1st run?
[20:02] <emet> yeah something like that
[20:03] <cody-somerville> except its ineffective at what it does.
[20:04] <ion_> Hm. I don’t think i’ve ever *read* the Firefox Ubuntu start page. :-)
[20:04] <emet> is there a channel for ubuntu documentation development?
[20:05] <cody-somerville> ember, yes
[20:05] <cody-somerville> #ubuntu-doc
[20:56] <devfil> can someone explain me why language-support-translations-it depends on thunderbird-locale-it?
[20:56] <devfil> thunderbird isn't installed on a default installation, install the italian translation will install also it
[20:58] <jpds> devfil: They are "Additional translations", as per apt-cache show.
[20:58] <cody-somerville> devfil, Depends: thunderbird | language-support-it
[20:59] <devfil> in intrepid it install thunderbird
[20:59] <cody-somerville> Don't install language-support-translations-it then
[20:59] <cody-somerville> install language-support-it
[21:01] <devfil> cody-somerville: language-support-it depends on language-support-translations-it
[21:01] <cody-somerville> I'm aware of that
[21:02] <cody-somerville> But if you install language-support-it, then the dependency of thunderbird-locale-it will be met and thunderbird won't be installed
[21:02] <_MMA_> language-support-it depends -> language-support-translations-it -> ﻿thunderbird-locale-it -> Thunderbird. Last I knew.
[21:02] <devfil> _MMA_: you're right
[21:04] <devfil> so all italian users will have thunderbird installed...
[21:06] <cody-somerville> I'll try it on my Intrepid box later today
[21:06] <cody-somerville> on Hardy, it works as expected.
[21:06] <devfil> cody-somerville: language-support-it isn't installed, it depends on thunderbird-locale-it, so it install thunderbird
[21:06] <devfil> in order to install language-support-it
[22:11] <Savago> Hello friends.
[22:12] <Savago> Is there any *huge* side effect by installing an intrepid package in Hardy?
[22:13] <ion_> If all its dependencies are in hardy, it should work but you won’t get security updates to it automatically. Now please read the topic.
[22:14] <Savago> ion_, thanks a lot. :-)
[22:36] <cjwatson> devfil: thunderbird-locale-it should depend on thunderbird | language-support-translations-it rather than thunderbird | language-support-it. That's a bug; please file it
[22:36] <devfil> cjwatson: are you sure?
[22:36] <cjwatson> yes.
[22:36] <devfil> if I install -support-it
[22:37] <devfil> it install thunderbird-locale-it in order to install language-support-translations-it
[22:37] <cjwatson> yes, but this will at least stop it installing thunderbird too.
[22:38] <cjwatson> we have no way to implement anything more fine-grained in the package manager right now; there's no way to say "if thunderbird is already installed then depend on thunderbird-locale-it". Installing an extra locale package that isn't needed (but at least not pulling in the extra application) is the lesser of two evils.
[22:38] <devfil> cjwatson: yes ok
[22:38] <devfil> a dep between them is ok
[22:40] <cjwatson> devfil: actually, don't worry about that bug, I'll just fix it now
[22:41] <devfil> thanks
[22:43] <cjwatson> p.s. it's not Italian-specific, I fixed it for all languages
[22:44] <devfil> cjwatson: oh, goos
[22:44] <devfil> *good
[22:45] <devfil> I don't use evolution, it is really frustrating to have also thunderbird installed
[22:45] <devfil> :)
[23:32] <gattaca> I have a vmware issue on gentoo .... its obscure ... perhaps someone skilled enough is willing to throw a hint my way
[23:32] <gattaca> i'm running vmware workstation 64bit for linux 6.0.5 (as of a few minutes ago) on a current linux smp 64bit kernel (core2 duo with 2gb ram for the vm, no swapping) ... i have a virtual machine setup with current tools installed along with all updates ... the guest is a windows xp pro sp3 32bit smp system ... xp reports 100% combined cpu usage on two cores, while top in linux reports about 50% combined usage with no iowait and about 50
[23:33] <gattaca> gentoo ... lol ... ubuntu
[23:35] <_MMA_> gattaca: In the end, this is a development channel and the weekend. Not the place and gonna be slow here.
[23:36] <gattaca> i think it could be hard coded into a vmware kernel module or background service ... just hoping someone else ran into this
[23:39] <cody-somerville> If someone has, I bet you'll find the answer via google ;]
[23:39] <gattaca> go ahead and look ... i've been on this for 17 hours non stop
[23:40] <gattaca> the last thing i want to do is distract you guys from the important work i love ;)
[23:40] <gattaca> ... yet, i am here.
[23:40] <cody-somerville> :-)
[23:42] <gattaca> on another note, my coding skills have come a long way .... is there a svn or git repository somewhere i could study off of?
[23:42] <gattaca> one day i'd like to be in here permantly
[23:43] <wgrant> svn or git repository for what?
[23:43] <wgrant> We have an awful lot of code...
[23:44] <gattaca> low level stuff is mostly what i understand
[23:45] <gattaca> ... and security.
[23:48] <_MMA_> gattaca: Best I can say is to try to get involved in something you care about.
[23:48] <toresbe> gattaca: I've got to say, entering the Ubuntu developer's discussion forum and asking a Gentoo user support question is... ahm, ill-advised.
[23:48] <_MMA_> toresbe: He corrected himself.
[23:48] <gattaca> gentoo was a typo .... my bad. its ubuntu.
[23:48] <toresbe> oh, sorry, I misunderstood, pardon me.
[23:49] <gattaca> iv'e been using ubuntu as a primary, opensolaris as secondary, and osx as third for about 8 years now ... the windows stuff confuses me, always has, even for the 12 years i used it before becoming enlightened
[23:49] <toresbe> Still; it's a user question, this is a developers' channel; it's not the place for it.
[23:49] <_MMA_> toresbe: And he's been told.
[23:50] <gattaca> k ... consider it dropped.
[23:50] <gattaca> i'll be back ...