[00:02] <ScottK> apachelogger: Looks good to me.
[00:19] <EagleScreen> hello people, now in Kubuntu Intrepid, if you want ot install sun-java6-plugin, it installs firefox, ubufox and all their dependences, this is becouse sun-java6-plugin has firefox as dependence and does not has konqueror, i have made a patch to change it in debian/rules
[00:21] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: debian/rules?
[00:22] <EagleScreen> nooo
[00:22] <EagleScreen> debian/control sorry
[00:23] <apachelogger> EagleScreen: file a bug report against the source package of sun-java6-plugin and attach the patch
[00:23] <EagleScreen> i alreadu have filed a report
[00:23] <EagleScreen> i am now testing my patch
[00:26] <apachelogger> ScottK: thank you
[00:35] <vorian> efternoon
[00:37] <apachelogger> aftermidnight
[00:38] <EagleScreen> it seems that my patch works well :D
[00:50] <vorian> apachelogger: you could just do - Depends: *
[00:51] <apachelogger> vorian: rly?
[00:51] <vorian> why not?
[00:52] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[00:52] <apachelogger> vorian: do you have any MIRs to write?
[00:52] <vorian> you are about to install 33,287 packages.  Do you wwant to proceed?
[00:52] <vorian> no, i don't
[00:52] <apachelogger> lol
[00:53] <vorian> to both questions
[00:53] <vorian> :P
[00:53] <apachelogger> hm
[00:53] <apachelogger> I think I am notsober enough to checkout all of kde www
[00:53] <vorian> haha
[00:54] <apachelogger> oh my
[00:54] <apachelogger> me@apoc { ~/src/svn/kde }$ svn up www
[00:54] <apachelogger> A    www
[00:55]  * apachelogger is wondering why he keeps deleting that folder anyway
[00:55] <vorian> i like your bash
[00:57] <apachelogger> me too, it also shows how many screen windows I have opened :D
[00:57] <apachelogger> if I had any of course
[00:57] <vorian> ooh
[00:58] <vorian> screen the screen the screen
[00:58] <apachelogger> me@apoc [scr:1] { ~/src/svn/kde }$
[00:58] <vorian> fancy
[00:58] <vorian> colours too?
[00:58] <apachelogger> everything green, the @ is red and the [scr:1] is yellow
[00:59]  * apachelogger likes fancy prompts :D
[00:59] <vorian> looks like we need a ffe on plasmoid-qalculate, kio-bookmarks, plasmoid-wifi/weather
[01:00] <neversfelde> ffe = feature freeze exception?
[01:00] <apachelogger> vorian: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot093.png
[01:01] <apachelogger> neversfelde: yus
[01:01] <apachelogger> vorian: kio already got one
[01:01] <apachelogger> at least I uploaded something with 2.1 recently IIRC
[01:01] <vorian> O.O
[01:01] <vorian> my eyes
[01:01] <neversfelde> ah, I had to think about it 2 or 3 minutes :)
[01:02] <apachelogger> vorian: the bottom green is a bit awful, isn't it :P
[01:02] <vorian> yeah :)
[01:02] <apachelogger> makes me know that this is the remote screen
[01:02]  * apachelogger always confused his local ones with his remote ones
[01:02] <vorian> Advocated   	September 05 17:36  	apachelogger  	
[01:02] <vorian> All good.
[01:02] <vorian> Uploaded, archived.
[01:02] <vorian> Thank you!
[01:02] <vorian> not archived
[01:02] <apachelogger> not?
[01:03] <vorian> nay
[01:03] <apachelogger> omg
[01:03] <vorian> i can do it real quicklike
[01:03] <apachelogger> pretty please
[01:03] <vorian> alrighty
[01:04] <vorian> gone!
[01:04] <apachelogger> hooray
[01:04] <vorian> hmm
[01:04] <apachelogger> thinking about it ... revu should have an automagic archive trigger
[01:04] <goatsocks> apachelogger: that konqueror screenshot is hideous :)
[01:04] <apachelogger> like "Gone it be!
[01:05] <apachelogger> goatsocks: it is tango
[01:05] <apachelogger> you know, I had to take an oath to scream everytime I see tango when I joined oxygen
[01:05] <apachelogger> doing that screenshot was pretty exhausting
[01:06] <goatsocks> it makes konqueror look like *gasp* epiphany
[01:06] <apachelogger> it certainly does slower rendering though ;-)
[01:06] <vorian> oh noes!
[01:07] <apachelogger> btw, did I already show-off my all new Vbox?
[01:08] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot138.png
[01:08] <apachelogger> beautiful, isn't it :D
[01:08] <goatsocks> it's using qt4 now?
[01:08] <apachelogger> yes
[01:09] <apachelogger> vbox 2.0 only got released recently
[01:09] <vorian> testem
[01:09] <vorian> haha
[01:09] <goatsocks> where's the deb?
[01:09] <apachelogger> virtualbox.org
[01:09] <vorian> i fully expected to see iATKOS
[01:10]  * apachelogger seriously doesn't get that one
[01:10] <goatsocks> you're right, 2.0... they just released 1.6.6 the other day, guess they're on a roll :)
[01:11]  * apachelogger is wondering how long it would take to checkout kde www with git
[01:11] <goatsocks> is the intrepid iso boot problem under vbox fixed now?
[01:11] <vorian> vbox is the devil
[01:12] <apachelogger> goatsocks: no
[01:12] <apachelogger> I am really wondering if it is the kernel devs breaking compatibility all the time or the vbox devs doing non-future-proof development
[01:12] <apachelogger> hardy didn't work either until some weeks before release
[01:16] <goatsocks> apachelogger: i see 2.0 supports 64 bit guests, has anyone tried x86_64 intrepid yet?
[01:16] <goatsocks> would be funny if it worked
[01:16] <apachelogger> if canonical would buy me a 64big host... ;-)
[01:17] <vorian> i run 64bit intrepid
[01:17] <apachelogger> *64bit
[01:17] <apachelogger> vorian: install vbox and try running a 64bit intrepid :P
[01:17] <vorian> bot not with the devil vbox
[01:18] <goatsocks> heh
[01:18] <apachelogger> hm
[01:18] <goatsocks> i'll try it then
[01:18] <apachelogger> vorian: why do you thin the vbox is the devil?
[01:18] <vorian> well, spell it backwards
[01:18] <vorian> xbov
[01:18] <vorian> that's just wrong
[01:18] <apachelogger> *wonder*
[01:19] <vorian> xobv
[01:19] <apachelogger> kubuntu -> utnubuk
[01:19] <vorian> AH!
[01:19] <vorian> don't scare me like that
[01:19] <apachelogger> sounds like a vampire name
[01:19] <vorian> or a Hockey team
[01:20] <apachelogger> hm
[01:20] <apachelogger> or a bug tracker
[01:20] <vorian> ok, i'll buy that
[01:20] <apachelogger> they have uberfancy names like bugzilla and mantis and malone
[01:20] <vorian> maybe a team that helps kubuntu give back to debian?
[01:21] <apachelogger> hm
[01:21] <apachelogger> how does that relate to utnubuk
[01:21] <goatsocks> well i'm glad virtualbox.org is now hosting the sun version, but no intrepid, so i guess i'll have to build the OSE version :/
[01:22] <vorian> whoa!
[01:22] <apachelogger> goatsocks: hardly a heron version should work on intrepid as well
[01:22]  * apachelogger thinks about watching a reel big fish
[01:34] <goatsocks> oh nice new registration form
[01:36] <vorian> ok fine
[01:36] <vorian> installing
[01:36] <vorian> devil box
[01:37] <goatsocks> vorian: but registration dialogs are surely of the devil?
[01:37] <vorian> yes always
[01:37] <vorian> who are you?
[01:37] <vorian> pfft
[01:37] <vorian> too big
[01:37] <goatsocks> i am a tool of the devil
[01:37] <vorian> haha
[01:37] <apachelogger> <-- devil?
[01:37] <vorian> the devils servant
[01:37] <vorian> slave
[01:38] <apachelogger> kio slaves ftw!
[01:38] <vorian> vbox slave
[01:38] <vorian> virtualslave
[01:38] <apachelogger> hm
[01:38] <apachelogger> virtual host -> virtual guest -> virtual node -> virtual slave
[01:39] <apachelogger> just think about it, a virtual cluster...
[01:39] <goatsocks> the hardy deb seems to work, except the USB config
[01:39] <apachelogger> who needs usb anyway
[01:39] <goatsocks> but i'm not using usb for any guest stuff so
[01:43]  * apachelogger hands vorian and goatsocks a devil cookie
[01:45] <vorian> nom
[01:45] <goatsocks> hm
[01:45]  * goatsocks eats devil cookie and wonders why the intrepid iso complains it's running on i686
[01:46]  * goatsocks checks again... yep, installed the vbox for amd64
[01:46] <goatsocks> this could be a hint as to what's wrong
[01:48]  * apachelogger is skanking in the channel
[01:49] <goatsocks> just to be sure i'll try a different 64bit distro iso
[01:50] <apachelogger> maybe the sun broke the devil
[01:50]  * goatsocks sucks up all of fedora's bandwidth
[01:51] <apachelogger> hm
[01:51] <apachelogger> you shouldn't do that
[01:51] <apachelogger> I am having an affair with fedora
[01:51] <apachelogger> but don't tell anyone
[01:53] <goatsocks> bah, they're topping out around 1 Mbps
[01:55] <goatsocks> oh, 7.2 Mbps
[02:03] <JontheEchidna> vorian: I got a ffe for kio-bookmarks and got 0.2.1 uploaded the other day
[02:04] <JontheEchidna> We need to reupload wifi/weather anyway since they're busted since they were compiled with 4.0.98
[02:04] <JontheEchidna> so it could be counted as a bug
[02:05] <vorian> hmmm
[02:06] <vorian> can you file an ffe?
[02:06] <vorian> please :)
[02:06] <JontheEchidna> for weather/wifi? sure, I guess
[02:10] <JontheEchidna> vorian: there is a bug for weather not working already
[02:11] <goatsocks> heh the fedora 9 x86_64 guest does the same thing... "This kernel requires an x86-64 CPU, but only detected an i686 CPU. Unable to boot - please use a kernel appropriate for your CPU."
[02:12] <goatsocks> could be this hardy package... i'll try compiling OSE from scratch
[02:13] <vorian> JontheEchidna: sweet!
[02:15]  * JontheEchidna gets on preparing a rebuild package for weather
[02:21] <JontheEchidna> vorian: bug 262710
[02:21] <JontheEchidna> oh
[02:21] <JontheEchidna> forgot to actually remove the cdbs folder
[02:22] <apachelogger> hooray
[02:23] <JontheEchidna> ok, got a good debdiff up & deleted the old one
[02:26] <vorian> hool
[02:26] <vorian> bezaponi
[02:28] <apachelogger> that sounds weird
[02:39] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: That's a bug, so it's fine to upload (the bookmarks thing).
[02:40] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: bookmarks already got sponsored/uploaded
[02:40] <ScottK> Ah.
[02:40] <ScottK> Misunderstood the conversation then.
[02:40] <ScottK> wifi/weather then.
[04:22] <ScottK> Wahoo.  Only 8 hours to build kdepim for Hardy Backports on hppa.
[04:28] <seele> wow, lots of kde love in this week's ubuntu weekly newsletter
[04:28] <seele> huh, linked to my talk at akademy too
[04:29] <seele> good thing my webserver is back up :-/
[04:39] <ScottK> seele: Did you see the discussion about Adept icon changes here a day or so ago?
[04:41] <seele> ScottK: i was here when they discussed what it could look like, but don't remember any conclusions
[04:41] <ScottK> OK.  I was hoping you'd have some advice.
[04:42] <seele> not really until i see a picture
[04:42] <seele> they could ask one of the oxygen people to come up with a concept
[04:42] <ScottK> Maybe mornfall and goatsocks can make some.
[04:42] <seele> dunno if kwwii could help them either
[04:43] <ScottK> Personally, I mostly use apt-get, so it doesn't affect me much, but I think it's an important thing to get right.
[04:43] <seele> double yes (i use apt-get too, but it would help to have a good icon as well)
[04:44] <ScottK> Since they were arguing about usability, I thought you'd be a good referee.
[04:46] <seele> yeah, we had diverging opinions on what direction the arrow should point
[04:47] <seele> i forget who, but someone thought it should point up because of "update", but i thought it should point down because you download updates
[04:47] <seele> up is used in other places as "send" or "upload"
[04:49] <ScottK> I've successfully avoided having an opinion.
[04:50] <seele> hah
[04:52] <ScottK> So while you all are having fun on the bleeding edge, I'm trying to get kde 3.5.10 to build on hppa.
[04:52] <ScottK> For Hardy.
[04:58] <goatsocks> oh i have pix
[04:58] <goatsocks> one sec
[05:00] <goatsocks> seele: here's the result of my patch in adept-manager: http://img.flashtux.org/img132690cda68x389afd17.png
[05:00] <goatsocks> seele: and adept updater: http://img.flashtux.org/img132690cea6bxe34ea603.png
[05:01] <goatsocks> the status icons now match the big icons in the leftmost pane, which is the user's selected kde icon theme (oxygen in this case)
[05:02] <goatsocks> i could make some screenies of unpatched adept, but i assume you already have it installed
[05:04] <seele> oh, i thought you guys were talking about a general application and notification icon
[05:04] <goatsocks> i used an "up" arrow to indicate packages marked for upgrade because that's what synaptic does and i figure it wouldn't be good to have ubuntu's 2 major package manager gui's to have conflicting meanings
[05:05] <goatsocks> seele: oh no that was someone else's discussion the other day :)
[05:05] <seele> do the icons in the list view include tooltips?
[05:05] <goatsocks> yeah, the tooltips are good and descriptive
[05:05] <goatsocks> wait, in the list view i haven't tested
[05:05] <seele> and they show in the list, not just the key?
[05:06]  * goatsocks tests
[05:06] <goatsocks> ok no tooltips in the list, but the key has tooltips
[05:06] <goatsocks> it would be trivial to add them to the list too
[05:07] <seele> no
[05:07] <seele> they need to be on the list
[05:07] <seele> otherwise you have to go back and forth from the list to the key to figure out what it means
[05:08] <seele> which defeats the purpose of having them there instead of a label.  it's supposed to help you scan and make a selection and do an action faster, not slow you down
[05:09] <seele> it also makes it harder to learn the icons because people will get sick of referring back to the key constantly instead of easily checking the tooltip in context
[05:09] <goatsocks> sounds good, i'll send a patch to mornfall (since tooltips are orthogonal to our differences on iconography ;)
[05:09] <seele> ok
[05:10] <seele> should go to bed, was up way too late the other night
[05:10]  * seele waves.
[05:10] <goatsocks> g'nite
[06:59] <mornfall> Oh, that's an oh-so-useless suggestion again.
[06:59] <mornfall> And it's not a f-ing key, either. Maybe people should try using the app before giving usability advice. D'oh.
[07:05] <goatsocks> mornfall: right, but it's a key in the sense that it's the only place the status icons are identified (via tooltips)
[07:09] <mornfall> Well, the icon's meaning is typed out in each list item.
[07:10] <goatsocks> mornfall: also true, however which text? for instance, if the icon in the list is a "remove" icon, the text will say "installed -- remove", and there is an icon for "installed" as well as "remove"
[07:12] <goatsocks> but that also ties into my opinion that there's redundant information there that could be hidden (and revealed via tooltip like seele suggested)
[07:12] <goatsocks> because the redundant information (as in the case i just described) could confuse uers
[07:12] <goatsocks> *users
[07:16] <goatsocks> you could take another approach and ditch the tooltips, and replace for example "installed -- remove" with simply "Marked for removal", since obviously adept will only allow you to remove a package if it's currently installed
[07:16] <mornfall> goatsocks: Not so obviously, as that's not true.
[07:17] <goatsocks> how would it be meaningful to remove a non-installed package?
[07:17] <mornfall> goatsocks: There's also "upgradable" and "broken" as states in which a package can be removed.
[07:18] <goatsocks> in both cases the package is installed however, and if the user marks it for removal it hardly matters whether it's broken, upgradable, or installed properly
[07:20] <goatsocks> the real problem is having to use a single icon to convey two different things: status and action
[07:21] <goatsocks> packagekit avoids that by using an icon for the status and a checkbox next to it for action
[07:22] <goatsocks> not sure i find that usable though
[07:26] <goatsocks> two icons might work: http://packagekit.org/img/kpk-information.png
[07:27] <goatsocks> and you could overlay a warning icon or up arrow icon on top of the package for broken/upgradable packages
[07:34] <mornfall> Well, I think the interface is just fine. When someone comes with an usability survey identifying real problems, I will think about changing the concepts. Till then, it's just "I think users think like this" which has very low credibility. Moreover, it's a few weeks too late, since the software is frozen since beta1 (as I have announced on several occasions). If someone is willing to gather some actual data for 3.1, the better.
[07:35] <mornfall> You see, I hear lots of opinions about what I should change, they often conflict and the suggestors are often highly convinced that they are the most right of all.
[07:36] <mornfall> I do have limited time to work on adept, and as you see, beta 2 is slipping considerably. It would make sense to spend time on it, since it should have been out by last friday I guess.
[07:38] <goatsocks> fair enough... as i said it works for me on a technical level, but as for the gui, some parts of it hurt my brain ;)
[08:23] <seaLne> as mentioned on a kde irc channel there seems to be a problem with the extragear-plasma on hardy you just get a black blob which if you click on you just get the option to "remove this unknown plasmoid" this happens to me with the twitter one, it looks like the package is still from 4:4.0.80-0ubuntu1~hardy1~ppa2 with no new 4.1.1 package available which is presumably causing the problem?
[08:29] <seaLne> Nightrose: did you say twitter plasmoid worked for you in hardy?
[08:30] <Nightrose> seaLne: jep
[08:30] <Nightrose> but i have it added for a while already
[08:30] <Nightrose> and I am so not going to remove and readd it :P
[08:30] <seaLne> version?
[08:30] <Nightrose> 4.1.1
[08:30] <Nightrose> added since at least 4.1
[08:31] <Nightrose> or do you want me to check the package version?
[08:34] <Nightrose> ahhhhh
[08:34] <Nightrose> seaLne: it is kdeplasma-addons now
[08:34] <Nightrose> should have upgraded though without problems...
[08:52] <seaLne> ah yeah it sort of works if you ignore the fact that plasma workspace then crashed after adding for me
[08:53] <seaLne> hmm its if i mouse over it that plasma crashes weird
[08:55] <seaLne> but analog clock is fine maybe its a result of having the old version of the plasmoid loaded? i don't know enough about plasma...
[08:58] <Nightrose> *shrug*
[08:58] <Nightrose> me neither
[08:59] <seaLne> i'd have thought the crashes and restarts should have flushed that though weird
[10:16] <danimo> moin
[10:17] <Nightrose> hey danimo :)
[10:18]  * danimo tries to figure out why okular in hardy doesn't want to load any backend except for ps
[10:23] <danimo> Nightrose: are you maybe not already on intrepid? :)
[10:24] <Nightrose> danimo: nope - still hardy here
[10:24] <danimo> Nightrose: does okular work for you?
[10:24] <Nightrose> and probably staying with it for another while ;-)
[10:24] <danimo> (with pdf)
[10:24] <Nightrose> jep worksforme
[10:24] <danimo> odd
[10:25] <Nightrose> trid kbuildsycoca4 --noincremental?
[10:25] <Nightrose> *tried
[10:26] <danimo> Nightrose: reinstallation helped :)
[10:26] <Nightrose> heh ok
[10:38] <Riddell> ooh, I read all my outstanding e-mail this morning
[10:40] <Riddell> smarter: you asked about libfacile-ocaml-dev, a while ago ocaml was wanted out of main but I see it's still in there so that shouldn't be a reason for not putting facile in main, fancy writing a MIR?
[10:40] <smarter> hey Riddell
[10:41] <smarter> I've never written one :)
[10:42] <Riddell> smarter: start a wiki page FacilyMainInclusionReport  and use the MainInclusionTemplate, fill in the blanks
[10:43] <Riddell> s/Facily/Facile/
[10:44] <smarter> ok
[10:47] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: kolourpaint patch uploaded
[10:50] <Riddell> I wonder if gcc is working this morning
[10:58] <seaLne> on intrepid i keep having kdeartwork-theme-icon installed then later removed due to conflicts :(
[11:05] <seaLne> since upgrading to intrepid konqueror looks like http://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/~kd/tmp/konq.png and dosen't do anything.  anyone else seen this?
[11:13] <Riddell> seaLne !
[11:14] <Riddell> kdeartwork-theme-icon conflicts with kdelibs from KDE 3 so understandable that it gets removed
[11:14] <Riddell> but that shouldn't affect konqueror
[11:14] <Riddell> seaLne: do you have kubuntu-desktop entirely installed?
[11:16] <Riddell> gcc still broken, not a great time to upload anything
[11:18] <Riddell> or dist-upgrade
[11:29] <seaLne> well kubuntu-desktop isn't complaining if i try a reinstall of it so i guess its fine
[11:31] <Riddell> seaLne: is konqueror fully installed
[11:31] <Riddell> (shot in the dark)
[11:32] <seaLne> konqueror is already the newest version
[11:32] <Riddell> next I'd try removing ~/.kde/share/config/konquerorrc  then ~/.kde/share/apps/konqueror/
[11:32] <Riddell> (save bookmarks.xml if you care about it)
[11:34] <seaLne> deleting ~/.kde/share/apps/konqueror/ worked i guess its something weird with me if no one else saw it
[11:35] <Riddell> more likely something weird with upgrade :(
[11:35] <seaLne> :(
[11:36] <Riddell> mvo said he would get hardy kubuntu-desktop-kde4 to intrepid kubuntu-desktop upgrades working in the dist upgrade tool
[11:36] <Riddell> then we should work out an upgrade testing plan with the QA team
[11:37] <seaLne> has it inproved much in the last week? my expierience of the upgrade couldn't be done by users
[11:38] <Riddell> I moaned to him about the problems you had and that's what he's working on
[11:39] <seaLne> you saw my reply with the disk space bug no?
[11:41] <Riddell> yes
[11:43] <smarter> Riddell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportFacile :)
[11:46] <Riddell> smarter: perfect, can you subscribe ubuntu-mir to that bug?
[11:46] <smarter> okay
[12:03] <apachelogger> Riddell: please retry kdelibs
[12:04] <Riddell> apachelogger: you think gcc is fixed?
[12:04] <apachelogger> well, apparently kdelibs built on 2 arches
[12:04] <Riddell> kdegraphics failed an hour ago
[12:04] <ScottK> Two archs never got infected with the bad GCC.
[12:05] <apachelogger> oj
[12:05] <apachelogger> *oh
[12:05] <apachelogger> Why doesn't doko just revert the error causing change?
[12:05] <ScottK> He tried.
[12:06] <apachelogger> :S
[12:06] <ScottK> It apparently will take some manual intervention on the buildd's.
[12:06] <ScottK> See http://tinyurl.com/6jjs2k
[12:07] <apachelogger> Now that is one awesome breakage :|
[12:08] <apachelogger> Btw, I am currently downloading our new KDE 4.1.1 Remix CD
[12:09] <Riddell> apachelogger: ooh
[12:18] <apachelogger> Riddell: made in germany ;-)
[12:18]  * apachelogger suspects broken stuff all over the place
[12:19]  * goatsocks suspects stuff
[12:32] <apachelogger> ranting helps at times
[12:33] <apachelogger> Riddell: kubuntu-restricted-extras doesn't need to depend on sun-java6-plugin, it only needs the -jre and the java path set in konqueror's config
[12:35] <Riddell> apachelogger: presumably java still needs to be installed?
[12:35] <Riddell> of course we have openjdk in main now
[12:36] <apachelogger> Riddell: yes a JRE is needed
[12:36] <apachelogger> I don't know about the compatibility of openjdk though
[12:38] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot139.png
[12:39] <Riddell> Qt 4 goodness?
[12:41] <apachelogger> yeah, that too ;-) http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot138.png
[12:41] <apachelogger> but most importantly KDE 4.1.1 goodness
[12:42] <Riddell> go 4.1.1!
[12:48] <apachelogger> hm, for every step of ubiquity it adds a new battery plasmoid
[12:48] <apachelogger> I am at step 4 apparently ;-)
[12:52] <Riddell> huh?
[12:56] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot140.png
[12:56] <Riddell> mm but whyever?
[12:58] <apachelogger> xsession-errors doesn't tell, I'll reboot and check plasma's stdout
[13:14] <seele> mornfall: i have used it and i thought it was a key
[13:14] <seele> its the only place you can figure out what the icons mean
[13:20] <mornfall> Now, there are only 3 icons by default in manager: not installed, installed and upgradable. Is it *really* so hard to figure that the color-keyed text goes with the icon? When you choose an action, the icon of the item changes. I can imagine there are people who wouldn't notice the causality, but... I mean, is it really such a problem?
[13:21] <mornfall> And when they don't figure what the icons mean, does it matter at all?
[13:21] <apachelogger> Riddell: doesn't happen now -.-
[13:21] <apachelogger> really odd issue
[13:23] <mornfall> seele: I have been surprised as how many issues users will either ignore or work around. The icon "issue" really seems petty to me.
[13:24] <mornfall> But maybe you could come up with use-cases where they really pose a problem?
[13:26] <seele> argh.. what besides adept-manager and apt-get would lock sources.list?
[13:26]  * seele reboots
[13:27] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: some of the readers of your blog are "geniuses"
[13:28] <apachelogger> the readers might be, the commenters not so much :P
[13:28] <apachelogger> only saw one so far
[13:29] <JontheEchidna> I saw:
[13:29] <JontheEchidna> -One person suggesting you switch distros
[13:29] <JontheEchidna> -One person just not getting it and calling you a crybaby
[13:33] <apachelogger> I saw: One person telling me that we don't even need that stupid java plugin, which doesn't essentially solve the original issue but helps improve kubuntu ;-)
[13:34] <ScottK> apachelogger: It does occur to me that since the Java thing pulled in Firefox you can finish your MIR on the wiki now.
[13:35] <apachelogger> ScottK: I didn't install, neversfelde told me about it
[13:37] <ScottK> K.
[13:59] <seele> is it just me or are ubuntu sources really slow?
[14:00] <Hobbsee> ubuntu sources?
[14:00] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: awww.
[14:01] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: i thought you'd be used to such things by now, running kubuntu
[14:01] <seele> Hobbsee: sources.list sources are really slow for me and i'm not having any problems with my other computers
[14:03] <Hobbsee> seele: strange.  did you try a different mirror?
[14:03] <apachelogger> Hobbsee: I'll never be, and I will certainly never stop doing lobbying towards humanity for the the towards humanity distribution
[14:03] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: good luck...
[14:03] <apachelogger> it just doesn't messure up to my expectations of a free desktop if one part doesn't care about the other
[14:04] <Hobbsee> i'm sure it was an innocent oversight.
[14:05] <apachelogger> Hobbsee: there are too many of those IMHO
[14:05] <apachelogger> if I talk about free desktop browsers I think about firefox and epiphany and konqueror, not xulrunner for example
[14:07] <Riddell> it should depend on www-browser not a horrible long list of browsers
[14:07] <apachelogger> righto
[14:08] <apachelogger> Riddell: btw, did you upload the 4.1.1 l10n stuff yet?
[14:09] <Riddell> apachelogger: hum, seems I didn't
[14:09] <apachelogger> Riddell: I'll poke you once gcc is fixed
[14:10] <Riddell> thanks
[14:11] <seele> mornfall: i'll have to get back to you, my intrepid install is messed up
[14:11] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: i know...
[14:11]  * Riddell hugs mornfall 
[14:20]  * apachelogger added extra information to the kde 4.1.1 news
[14:23] <Riddell> hi rdieter, have you tried system-config-printer-kde at all?
[14:24] <rdieter> Riddell: no, not yet.
[14:34] <apachelogger> ryanakca: I fixed the support links at http://www.kubuntu.org/about
[14:36] <apachelogger> ryanakca: and the policy link at http://www.kubuntu.org/legal
[15:01] <Riddell> !!!~~~~>Bat L10n WARNING: zh_TW not yet in the archives - please package manually!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[15:01] <Riddell> apachelogger: beastie somewhere in there
[15:09] <nixternal> good morning
[15:14] <Riddell> why hello nixternal
[15:17] <jjesse> morning nixternal
[15:17] <apachelogger> hola nixternal
[15:17] <apachelogger> nixternal: please fix the icons in the join us bar at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu
[15:18] <Hobbsee> hey visternal!
[15:21] <apachelogger> lol
[15:22] <goatsocks> Riddell: i have a patch for your software-properties-kde port, mostly consistency and cleanup... shall i mail it to you, or are you gonna give me the finger like mornfall? :)
[15:24] <nixternal> apachelogger: what icons are you talking about?
[15:25] <apachelogger> left and right of  Join us in the #kubuntu chat room for support, or the #kubuntu-devel chat room for development.
[15:25] <apachelogger> the ones that are broken :P
[15:26] <nixternal> apachelogger: someone needs to fix the icons, ie. the wiki administrator
[15:27] <apachelogger> so, who is a wiki admin?
[15:27]  * apachelogger is wondering why everything needs to be so different and why that icon disappeared in the first place
[15:27] <apachelogger> so complicate even
[15:28]  * apachelogger got too much coffee
[15:48] <Riddell> goatsocks: putting it in a bzr branch would be the most proper way, else e-mail or pastebin is fine
[15:52] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot095.png
[15:52] <apachelogger> that happens when I think to understand python
[15:53] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: what tool is handling dist-upgrades in Intrepid?
[15:53] <goatsocks> Riddell: i'm not set up for bzr atm, i'll mail it this time
[15:54] <goatsocks> Riddell: sent
[15:54] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: the dist upgrade tool :)
[15:57] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: thanks, triaging some adept bugs so I was wondering where to put the dist-upgrade related beasties
[15:58] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: adept does the "time to dist ugprade" and showing the release notes bit, the tool does the job itself and comes from the update-manager source
[16:00] <JontheEchidna> whoa, update-manager has a lot of bugs...
[16:01] <jjesse> JontheEchidna: is that your next task to triage?
[16:01]  * JontheEchidna is guessing they're all ubuntu bugs
[16:01] <jjesse> JontheEchidna: also did your app for ubuntu-bugsquad get approved?
[16:01] <JontheEchidna> jjesse: hasn't been processed yet
[16:02] <jjesse> JontheEchidna: ah
[16:02] <Riddell> how long has that taken?
[16:02] <jjesse> JontheEchidna: hrm i thought i saw discussoin on that, ping bdmurry?
[16:02] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: I sent the application in on the 30th
[16:04] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: who's supposed to process it?
[16:04]  * JontheEchidna shrugs
[16:04] <jjesse> checkign my email
[16:04] <Riddell> well where do you send the application?
[16:04] <jjesse> i know we discussed it
[16:04] <Riddell> jjesse: who's we?
[16:05] <JontheEchidna> http://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bugcontrol/
[16:05] <jjesse> ubuntu-bugcontrol mailing list
[16:05] <jjesse> +1's from everyone that responded i thought, but checking email
[16:06] <jjesse> encidnaman correct?
[16:06] <JontheEchidna> echidnaman, ya
[16:08] <jjesse> sent an email assking for status update
[16:09] <JontheEchidna> thx
[16:26] <Riddell> goatsocks: applied thanks
[16:27] <Riddell> goatsocks: if you fancy fixing the rendering on the Find Best Server (and having the Ok button get enabled when it finds one) that would be most welcome
[16:32] <goatsocks> Riddell: yeah i'll check that out, and if you don't mind i'd like to take a crack at unimplemented stuff like Release Upgrade, get this sucker closer to feature parity with the gtk version
[16:34] <Riddell> goatsocks: Release Upgrade?
[16:35] <goatsocks> yeah, that little bit on the Updates tab in the gtk version, at the very bottom
[16:36] <Riddell> goatsocks: do you know what that actually changes?
[16:39] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: are you or do you plan to discuss bug 248792 with Debian?
[16:39] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: I did, nothing seemed to come of the discussion though
[16:39] <goatsocks> Riddell: haven't looked at it, but i figured it hooked into update-notifier or something
[16:40] <Riddell> goatsocks: whatever it does, make sure it's what update-notifier-kde expects then :)
[16:41] <goatsocks> Riddell: will do
[16:42] <goatsocks> Riddell: also, what do you think about replacing the QFileDialogs with KFileDialog?
[16:42] <Riddell> goatsocks: where?
[16:42] <Riddell> oh, import key
[16:43] <Riddell> goatsocks: yes please
[16:46] <goatsocks> Riddell: ok... where's the bzr branch you're working from?
[16:50] <Riddell> goatsocks: code.launchpad.net/software-properties
[16:50] <Riddell> main
[16:50] <goatsocks> righty, thanks
[16:53] <Riddell> jjesse, JontheEchidna, yuriy: beastie triage knowledge.  can I unsubscribe ubuntu-sponsors-main from bug 248792?
[16:57] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: yeah
[16:57] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: how?
[16:58] <JontheEchidna> uh, you might need to be in the group
[16:58] <JontheEchidna> Scott knows how
[16:58] <Riddell> a group I can't join
[17:16] <Riddell> fabo: have you looked at libical 0.32?
[17:25] <ScottK> Riddell and JontheEchidna: I unsubb'ed u-m-s.
[17:27] <Riddell> thanks ScottK
[17:29] <ScottK> Riddell: No problem.  That's actually the main reason I bothered to get added.
[17:30] <Riddell> seems like an imperfect system
[17:31] <ScottK> It does, but then that's Launchpad. ;-)
[17:31] <ScottK> The team I feel the most for is ubuntu-archive.  I see stuff they're subscribed to all the time that I know isn't ready for them.
[17:31] <ScottK> Nothing I can do though.
[17:32] <ScottK> I'd imagine you know all about that one though.
[17:33] <Riddell> mm, and that can lead to problems too, I might sync something before it's been approved
[17:33] <ScottK> Yes.
[17:34] <ScottK> Personally, I've considered it might be useful to special case ubuntu-archive and allow motu/core-dev to unsub them from things.
[17:34] <ScottK> I've never gotten to writing the proposal up though.
[17:34] <ScottK> Until now I guess.
[17:34] <Riddell> I don't see why bug triagers can't unsubscribe anyone, they can subscribe anyone
[17:35] <ScottK> True.  Generally actions should be reversible.
[17:35] <ScottK> OTOH, if I subscribe to something I don't want someone else undoing that.
[17:36] <ScottK> I suspect that there's a right answer in there somewhere that's going to be painful to implement.
[17:36] <Riddell> no but bug triagers are already trusted through the beurocratic process that JontheEchidna is trying to get through
[17:36] <ScottK> True.
[17:59] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot097.png
[18:00] <Riddell> mmm, smooth
[18:00] <smarter> apachelogger: looks cool, but it needs a "day" somewhere(maybe under the 51, in fine print?
[18:01] <apachelogger> that print would have to be very fine ;-)
[18:25] <goatsocks> what's 51?
[18:26] <Riddell> days until intrepid
[18:33] <jussi01> \o/
[18:38] <smarter> hmm, looks like Kvkbd is almost bug-free now :)
[18:40] <smarter> If anyone wants to review, test or simply take a look to the KDE4 port of Kvkbd, the virtual keyboard, you can grab it from svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/playground/utils/kvkbd :)
[19:38] <seele> i dont understand the new UDS sponsorship process.  is the next UDS going to focus on brainstorm topics only?
[19:39] <Riddell> seele: where's this?
[19:39] <seele> Riddell: http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=1278
[19:46] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/counter/
[19:48] <Riddell> "days to go" would be better
[19:49] <goatsocks> "days left" sounds like it's expiring ;)
[19:49] <goatsocks> like cheese
[19:49] <seele> lol
[19:50] <apachelogger> 'days to go' is too long
[19:50] <seele> what about "days until"
[19:50] <seele> only one letter longer than days left
[19:50] <apachelogger> that could work
[19:51] <apachelogger> but that read rather strange
[19:51] <apachelogger> kubuntu 8.10, 51 days until.
[19:51] <seele> what if you put the 51 in a little calendar icon
[19:51] <seele> and then said "to go" underneath?
[19:52] <seele> so 51 [days] to go
[19:52] <seele> i think there is a day calendar icon in oxygen
[19:52] <apachelogger> yeah, but it it greenish which doesn't go very well with our blueish
[19:52] <apachelogger> emunkki: [20:51:53] <seele> what if you put the 51 in a little calendar icon
[19:52] <apachelogger> [20:52:00] <seele> and then said "to go" underneath?
[19:52] <apachelogger> [20:52:08] <seele> so 51 [days] to go
[19:55] <goatsocks> how about "88 years after the founding of the Communist Party of Australia"?
[19:55] <emunkki> calendar icon? hmm
[19:55] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot098.png
[19:55] <emunkki> sounds that it will come quite complicated
[19:56] <emunkki> should fit in the circle
[19:56] <apachelogger> may I note that we should add more colors to our color palette than blue
[19:56] <emunkki> or be below the logo
[19:56] <jcastro> Nightrose: ping
[19:56] <Nightrose> jcastro: pong
[19:56] <apachelogger> emunkki: I don't like the combination of blue and green
[19:56] <apachelogger> at least not these
[19:56] <jcastro> Nightrose: I've got something for you!
[19:56] <Nightrose> \o/
[19:56] <jcastro> Nightrose: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/amarok/+bugs?search=Search&field.status_upstream=pending_bugwatch
[19:56] <Nightrose> what is it? ;-)
[19:57]  * Nightrose looks
[19:57] <apachelogger> that looks like work :P
[19:57] <jcastro> ok, this is a list of bugs where someone has determined it's upstream amarok, but haven't made a link.
[19:57] <emunkki> lol
[19:57] <jcastro> I was thinking, if you have 5-a-day or bug day people looking for something to do .... :)
[19:57] <Nightrose> jcastro: heh I though it was kittens or cookies or something equally nice :P
[19:57] <emunkki> apachelogger, so, you want me to suggest something with the colors?
[19:57]  * jcastro gives Nightrose a hug
[19:57] <jcastro> that's all I got.
[19:58] <apachelogger> hm
[19:58]  * apachelogger hands jcastro some cookies for Nightrose
[19:58] <Nightrose> jcastro: alright - will see if I can find someone
[19:58] <Nightrose> hehe
[19:58] <Nightrose> a hug is fine with me
[19:58] <Nightrose> haha
[19:58]  * Nightrose hugs jcastro 
[19:58] <apachelogger> she's way more productive with cookies really :P
[19:58] <Nightrose> :P
[19:58] <jcastro> I was just thinking it would be useful for you
[19:58] <jcastro> I am slowly going through projects where someone has made a determination that it's upstream
[19:58] <jcastro> but then no one makes a link
[19:59] <jcastro> and then a month later we find out there's a bug flailing someplace with a patch. :-/
[19:59] <apachelogger> emunkki: I actually want an image :P
[19:59] <emunkki> :P
[19:59] <emunkki> can you send me the last svg you crafted?
[19:59] <jcastro> when these links are made they automatically show up in harvest under amarok, so (ideally) it means no lost patches
[20:00] <emunkki> on snapshot098
[20:00] <emunkki> i might have a huge idea
[20:01] <apachelogger> emunkki: http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/counter/ I also add the ubuntu font
[20:01] <jcastro> Nightrose: if you can let me know if that list is actually useful to you that would help me help other people in making more useful lists. :D
[20:01] <emunkki> apachelogger, ubuntu-title? i has that
[20:02] <Nightrose> jcastro: alright
[20:02] <apachelogger> emunkki: I have a different version
[20:02] <Nightrose> jcastro: will have a closer look after getting a drink
[20:02] <jcastro> no worries!
[20:02] <apachelogger> jcastro: most of the not-filed-upstream-but-marked-to-affect-upstream bugs in KDE are from me anyway ;-)
[20:02] <emunkki> apachelogger, ok... is that newer or sth?
[20:02] <apachelogger> Nightrose: last one in that list is easy to fix
[20:02] <Nightrose> k
[20:02] <jcastro> apachelogger: heh.
[20:03] <apachelogger> Nightrose: the icon is in kdebase but should be in kdelibs, only option is to ship it with amarok, which might e considered for .11
[20:03] <apachelogger> s/e/be/g
[20:03] <apachelogger> emunkki: yes, more complete and better looking and stuff
[20:04] <emunkki> apachelogger, ok.
[20:04] <Nightrose> apachelogger: we both know it is not going to happen ;-)
[20:06] <emunkki> apachelogger, why doesn't the font show up after fc-cache -fc ?
[20:06] <emunkki> *-fv
[20:07] <apachelogger> Nightrose: why not?
[20:07] <apachelogger> not .11?
[20:07] <apachelogger> *no
[20:07] <apachelogger> emunkki: I dunno
[20:07] <apachelogger> emunkki: restarted inkscape?
[20:08] <emunkki> yes
[20:08] <Nightrose> apachelogger: don't see it happening right now
[20:08] <apachelogger> emunkki: no clue then
[20:08] <emunkki> hmm
[20:08] <apachelogger> Nightrose: then leave a comment and mark the bug as triaged in LP
[20:08] <emunkki> it shows after 3rd reset
[20:08] <apachelogger> maybe someone stumbles upon it
[20:25] <jpds> apachelogger: Do you have any idea what could be making Konq hiccup with OpenID?
[20:27] <apachelogger> cookie mess up would be most obvious
[20:27] <apachelogger> the thing is, it works with revu
[20:28] <jpds> Very odd.
[20:29] <emunkki> apachelogger, what if we go blue and pink?
[20:29] <apachelogger> Oo
[20:30] <apachelogger> emunkki: pink only would be an option IMHO :P
[20:30] <emunkki> only an option?
[20:31] <emunkki> what about very yellowish green?
[20:32] <apachelogger> wouldn't that be suseish
[20:32] <blizzz> or violett with pink-filled circles
[20:32]  * apachelogger thinks any kind of green doesn't go very well with our kinds of blue
[20:32] <emunkki> tell me what goes
[20:33] <emunkki> other than other blues
[20:33] <emunkki> or white or black
[20:34] <apachelogger> jpds: I go to wiki.ubuntu.com -> get 5 cookies -> I login -> I don't get any new cookie
[20:34] <apachelogger> so I guess konqueror doesn't get a session cookie
[20:35] <jpds> apachelogger: I appear to have a cookie labeled: MOIN_SESSION.
[20:36] <apachelogger> jpds: all in all 6 cookies I guess?
[20:37]  * apachelogger notes that the cookie kcm is pretty buggy and doesn't show the content of the 5 cookies he got -.-
[20:37] <jpds> apachelogger: Well - Firefox says I have 4 cookies.
[20:38]  * jpds gives apachelogger a cookie.
[20:38] <apachelogger> \o/ now I have 6 :D
[20:39] <apachelogger> jpds: either way, the different amount of cookies is a pretty good indication that something goes wrong there
[20:40] <jpds> apachelogger: Probably a bug in konqueror then?
[20:40] <apachelogger> might be
[20:40] <apachelogger> I suggest getting in touch with a konqueror developer
[20:41] <apachelogger> we don't have full blown debug builds so I would have to build a debugging stack first
[20:46] <jpds> apachelogger: Debug builds are at: http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/
[20:47] <apachelogger> jpds: I said full blown :P
[20:47] <apachelogger> like loads of kDebug in stdout
[20:49] <emunkki> apachelogger, http://emonk.fi/work/kubuntu/countdown-banner-6.png
[20:49] <emunkki> that's somehow different yet again.
[20:49] <emunkki> though doesn't have the calendar icon
[20:49] <emunkki> just doesn't fit there.
[20:49] <apachelogger> ^ opinions please
[20:50] <apachelogger> emunkki: I can't do a gradient
[20:50] <emunkki> o.O ?
[20:50] <emunkki> ah, ok
[20:50] <emunkki> that's ok
[20:50] <apachelogger> I am going to write my own script for intrepid+1, altering the SVG and then exporting it to PNG
[20:51] <emunkki> ;)
[20:51] <apachelogger> pixel editing is a pita
[20:51] <emunkki> "oh, didn't know that"
[20:51] <emunkki> how easy is exporting svg to png on-the-fly?
[20:51] <apachelogger> let me rephrase that: automated pixedl editing is an uber pita
[20:51] <emunkki> lol
[20:51] <apachelogger> emunkki: if inkscape is installed it is fairly easy
[20:52] <emunkki> hmmh.
[20:52] <emunkki> well is it installed on the machine that should run the script
[20:52] <apachelogger> you just need to edit the svg and replace the text as necessary and then run inkscape with --no-gui
[20:52] <apachelogger> emunkki: I don't know on which machine to run it yet ;-)
[20:52] <emunkki> ;)
[20:53]  * apachelogger pings seele and Riddell and JontheEchidna and Nightrose and everyone else
[20:53] <jpds> apachelogger: If you find what the problem is; please put your results on the RT.
[20:53] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: pong
[20:54] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: http://emonk.fi/work/kubuntu/countdown-banner-6.png
[20:54] <Nightrose> apachelogger: pong?
[20:54] <apachelogger> the emunkki needs feedback
[20:54] <emunkki> the emunkki? o.O
[20:54] <jpds> emunkki: Nice.
[20:54] <JontheEchidna> nice
[20:55] <JontheEchidna> the 8.10 looks a bit blurry and blendy-in though
[20:56] <emunkki> JontheEchidna, i s'pose that the version number is kind of not the most important thing?
[20:56] <Nightrose> emunkki: isn't the number themost important thing?
[20:56] <apachelogger> no, the days are
[20:56] <emunkki> Nightrose, days are
[20:56] <apachelogger> but the number isn't exactly minor
[20:56] <Nightrose> apachelogger: yea that was what I meant
[20:56] <Nightrose> imho it is not prominent enough
[20:56] <apachelogger> peopel probably want to know what they are waiting for
[20:56] <Nightrose> otherwise very nice
[20:57] <emunkki> apachelogger, of?
[20:57] <emunkki> *oh
[20:57] <emunkki> better than http://emonk.fi/work/kubuntu/countdown-banner-4b.png ?
[20:58] <Nightrose> i like that as well
[20:59] <Nightrose> maybe even better than the other one
[20:59] <emunkki> it's more simple
[20:59]  * Nightrose is afk again - taking care of the dishes
[21:02] <JontheEchidna> emunkki: I think I like the 4b one
[21:02] <JontheEchidna> better
[21:02] <apachelogger> we still have the 'days left' issue though :S
[21:02] <JontheEchidna> they're both nice though. ;-)
[21:02] <emunkki> http://emonk.fi/work/kubuntu/countdown-banner-4b.png is updated
[21:02] <emunkki> apachelogger, see ^^
[21:02] <JontheEchidna> days to go
[21:02] <apachelogger> oh
[21:02] <apachelogger> emunkki: how does that go @ 130?
[21:02] <emunkki> second
[21:03] <emunkki> http://emonk.fi/work/kubuntu/countdown-banner-4b-130.png
[21:03] <emunkki> ++
[21:03] <emunkki> works
[21:04] <emunkki> we can still fiddle with the daysnumber font size
[21:05] <emunkki> it can be smaller
[21:05] <emunkki> i also think that it's the old font i'm using on that one
[21:05] <emunkki> lemme check
[21:07] <emunkki> file:///data/knome/Work/Kubuntu/countdown-banner-7.png
[21:07] <emunkki> GNA
[21:07] <apachelogger> parsing failed
[21:07] <emunkki> http://emonk.fi/work/kubuntu/countdown-banner-7.png
[21:07] <emunkki> http://emonk.fi/work/kubuntu/countdown-banner-7-130.png
[21:08] <apachelogger> usable, I guess
[21:08] <emunkki> yeah me too
[21:08] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: what do you think?
[21:09] <JontheEchidna> I think that's good
[21:10] <apachelogger> ok
[21:10] <apachelogger> emunkki: svg please
[21:11] <emunkki> http://emonk.fi/work/kubuntu/svg/
[21:19] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/counter/
[21:20] <emunkki> fix the borders !!
[21:20] <apachelogger> I hate borders
[21:20] <emunkki> eh
[21:20] <apachelogger> emunkki: what is wrong with them?
[21:21] <emunkki> the logo should be only inside the blue area
[21:21] <emunkki> imho
[21:21] <apachelogger> well
[21:21] <emunkki> looks bad as it overlaps
[21:21] <apachelogger> I am trying it on my blog
[21:21] <apachelogger> because I think it looks better if it overlaps :P
[21:21] <emunkki> let's ask the audience :P
[21:22] <apachelogger> no
[21:22] <apachelogger> looks horrible indeed
[21:22] <apachelogger> emunkki: how do I mask it?
[21:23] <emunkki> hmm
[21:23] <emunkki> send me the svg
[21:23] <Nightrose> jcastro: ok I had a look at the bugs page - that indeed looks interesting - for Amarok it is currently not really useful since we are closing pretty much all 1.4 bugs due to being focused on Amarok 2 but once that is out and more bugs get in for 2 it will be useful - needs some promo though so people know they can search for bugs like this and maybe a link on the package pages ubuntu QA is working on
[21:23] <emunkki> i will add some magic into it
[21:25] <apachelogger> emunkki: http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/counter/countdown-banner-7.svg
[21:29] <emunkki> http://emonk.fi/work/kubuntu/svg/ -> 8
[21:37] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/counter/
[21:37] <emunkki> yes.
[21:37] <emunkki> that's it
[21:46] <apachelogger> Riddell: can you add cron jobs to kubuntu.org?
[21:47] <JontheEchidna> yay. /me haz bugcontrol membership
[21:47] <apachelogger> \o/
[21:47] <apachelogger> congrats JontheEchidna
[21:47]  * apachelogger throws cookies through the channel
[21:48]  * JontheEchidna 's firefox catches all the OpenID ones
[21:48] <apachelogger> uhhh
[21:48] <apachelogger> now I know
[21:48] <apachelogger> firefox eats all of the cookies
[21:48] <apachelogger> even konqueror's
[21:48]  * emunkki eats apacheloggers cookies
[21:48] <apachelogger> meh
[21:49]  * apachelogger looks at the counter
[21:49] <apachelogger> that thing is not moving
[21:49] <apachelogger> no action
[21:49] <apachelogger> boring
[21:49] <apachelogger> !
[21:49] <apachelogger> can I haz a 24 like clock?
[21:49] <emunkki> make it move then
[21:49] <emunkki> make the gear move around
[21:49] <apachelogger> link the counter to kubuntu.org/intrepid-ibex or something and have a 24 like clock there
[21:50]  * apachelogger is clock obsessed
[21:50] <apachelogger> all KDE's fault -.-
[21:50] <emunkki> haha
[21:51]  * emunkki is irc obsessed
[21:51] <emunkki> all my own fault
[21:51] <apachelogger> I still want a 24-like clock though
[21:51] <apachelogger> black page, blue digits
[21:51] <emunkki> sure
[21:53] <emunkki> do it! :P
[21:53] <emunkki> i could practice my ajax skillz
[21:53] <emunkki> though that's really relatively easy to get the time
[21:54] <emunkki> but which digits would you like
[21:54] <emunkki> some graphic ones?
[21:55] <Riddell> apachelogger: no I don't have shell access to kubuntu.org
[21:55] <Riddell> apachelogger: php can be added but needs to be reviewed by a sysadmin
[21:57] <apachelogger> I guess we could add a php script fetching the pictures when triggered from $remote via cron
[21:57] <apachelogger> all far too difficult for my taste
[21:57] <apachelogger> emunkki: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot099.png
[21:58] <emunkki> OMG?
[21:58] <apachelogger> well
[21:58] <emunkki> those are some ugly digits
[21:58] <apachelogger> those are 24 digits!
[21:58] <apachelogger> apparently
[21:58] <apachelogger> I never really watched 24 :P
[21:59] <emunkki> well, still not very sexy
[21:59] <apachelogger> I know
[21:59] <apachelogger> the color also sucks
[21:59] <apachelogger> emunkki: maybe we could get them glowing?
[21:59] <apachelogger> some blur digit in the background
[21:59]  * apachelogger is a fan of decent glow
[21:59] <emunkki> like animated glowing whenever a digit has changed?
[22:00] <apachelogger> up to you, just something glowy ;-)
[22:00] <emunkki> lol
[22:00] <emunkki> ;)
[22:00] <apachelogger> meanwhie I will go to batcave and watch short parts of 24
[22:00] <emunkki> http://typodermic.com/40.html like those numbers?
[22:01] <emunkki> http://typodermic.com/83.html or those?
[22:01] <fabo> Riddell: I have uploaded libical 0.32 2 days ago
[22:03] <fabo> hmm no, yesterday ;) => [2008-09-07] Accepted 0.32-1 in unstable
[22:03] <apachelogger> emunkki: I like the latter
[22:04] <emunkki> apachelogger, k
[22:04] <emunkki> chainprinter it is.
[22:04] <emunkki> i will play around with that maybe tomorrow
[22:05] <emunkki> i'm tired now :<
[22:05] <apachelogger> oh noes, how can you be tired when I am uberexcited -.-
[22:05] <jcastro> Nightrose: good to know, I am waiting for a few more things to land on the report and then telling everyone about it.
[22:05] <emunkki> lol
[22:05] <emunkki> ok sir, i'll launch my photoshop once again
[22:06] <Nightrose> jcastro: sounds good :)
[22:06] <apachelogger> \o/
[22:06] <jcastro> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+upstreamreport
[22:06] <jcastro> there's the link if you're interested
[22:07] <jcastro> the very last column is where I got the list of bugs from
[22:08] <Nightrose> ah nice
[22:12] <seele> Riddell: did you ever figure out if the toolbar icon problem a bug in system settings or something else?
[22:13] <bobesponja> do I need to keep the ppa packages to get kde 4.1 on intrepid?
[22:13] <apachelogger> no
[22:14] <emunkki> apachelogger, http://emonk.fi/work/kubuntu/countdown-clock.png
[22:14] <apachelogger> hm
[22:14] <bobesponja> apachelogger: so kde4.1 is in the standard ubuntu repo?
[22:14] <apachelogger> emunkki: less blur, and maybe make the blur black-blueish
[22:15] <emunkki> hmmkay
[22:15] <apachelogger> emunkki: the whole page should be pretty darkish IMHO
[22:15] <apachelogger> bobesponja: actually it is the standard desktop for intrepid
[22:15] <bobesponja> cool, thanks for the info
[22:15] <apachelogger> you're welcome
[22:16] <emunkki> apachelogger, http://emonk.fi/work/kubuntu/countdown-clock-2.png
[22:22] <Riddell> fabo: ah, package.d.o must not have caught up when I looked
[22:22] <Riddell> seele: icon problem?
[22:22] <apachelogger> emunkki: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot100.png actually lighter than that
[22:22] <emunkki> lighter?
[22:22] <seele> Riddell: the global setting for changing the labels doesn't work?
[22:23] <seele> maybe i talked with someone else about it, i thought it was you..
[22:23] <apachelogger> emunkki: I add too much black gradient, I think the blue should be darker than the one I used but in return more blue than black
[22:23] <Riddell> seele: mm, it's in our kdeglobals but KDE isn't paying attention to it unless it's in the kdeglobals in ~/.kde
[22:23] <Riddell> seele: I've no idea why, I'll look into it some more, if it doesn't work I can just patch the code and set it as hard set default
[22:24] <emunkki> apachelogger, don't really know what you're trying to say but i can guess.
[22:24] <apachelogger> lol
[22:24] <apachelogger> http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/29948
[22:24] <apachelogger> fancy
[22:24] <seele> argh, is bugs.kde.org still on a testing server?  it never works
[22:25] <seele> Riddell: ok.. i think there is a bug on b.k.o about it not working, but i dont remember if the submitter was running ubuntu or something else
[22:25] <seele> (the global system settings option)
[22:26] <emunkki> apachelogger, http://emonk.fi/work/kubuntu/countdown-clock-3.png
[22:26] <Riddell> seele: but it works if you set it per user no?
[22:26] <seele> Riddell: no.
[22:26] <apachelogger> emma: the font coloring needs to be more intense
[22:27] <seele> it only works if you set it per application
[22:27] <apachelogger> emunkki: ^
[22:27] <apachelogger> emma: sorry
[22:27] <emunkki> aham.
[22:27] <Riddell> seele: oh, well then no wonder it doesn't work globally either
[22:27] <apachelogger> emunkki: though I have to say -3 has a kinda mysterious approach which is also kinda neat
[22:27] <Riddell> seele: but the text under default must be set somewhere and we can change that
[22:28] <seele> Riddell: do we have default rc files for every app in the default profile or are most created the first time an app is launched?
[22:30] <Riddell> seele: not for every app, only those we change something for
[22:30] <Riddell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/44671/
[22:30] <emunkki> lol good one me
[22:30] <emunkki> i was working on cmyk palette
[22:31] <seele> Riddell: would it be a big deal if we did have a default rc file for all the apps?
[22:32] <seele> man, this stupid option is turning out to be a pain in the ass
[22:32] <emunkki> apachelogger, http://emonk.fi/work/kubuntu/countdown-clock-4.png
[22:33] <Riddell> seele: well it would be pretty much impossible to cover all the apps
[22:34] <Riddell> seele: what's wrong with patching the code (from your point of view)?
[22:34] <apachelogger> emunkki: maybe still a bit more intense + blur = good
[22:34] <apachelogger> blur/glow that is
[22:34] <emunkki> aha
[22:34] <emunkki> now you want more blur :P
[22:34] <seele> Riddell: nothing besides time and resources
[22:35] <apachelogger> emunkki: let me rephrase: more intense blur as well :P
[22:35] <emunkki> kk
[22:35] <seele> Riddell: do you mean fixing the bug or hardcoding the config option?
[22:35] <Riddell> seele: hardcoding
[22:35] <emunkki> apachelogger, http://emonk.fi/work/kubuntu/countdown-clock-5.png
[22:36] <seele> Riddell: is that going to prevent users from changing the global option if they want?
[22:36] <apachelogger> emma: more intense blue still
[22:36] <apachelogger> emunkki: ^
[22:36] <emunkki> omg
[22:36]  * apachelogger should go to bed
[22:36] <emunkki> your client sucks
[22:36] <Riddell> seele: no just a change from the current setting (of course global change is already broken)
[22:36] <apachelogger> quassel autocompletion issue comes again
[22:36] <emunkki> tab should fill the last nick used first
[22:37] <emunkki> apachelogger, http://emonk.fi/work/kubuntu/countdown-clock-6.png
[22:37] <seele> Riddell: oh, well i guess that's ok
[22:38] <apachelogger> emunkki: apparently implementing it is not that easy
[22:38] <apachelogger> emunkki: and I like -6!
[22:38] <seele> nuno would probably appreciate a patch upstream since this was his idea.  but fixing the global option would probably be more important than just changing the hardcode default
[22:38] <emunkki> apachelogger, is there any REAL reason to use quassel vs. irssi other than having gui?
[22:38] <emunkki> apachelogger, i mean irssi in a shell, of course
[22:39] <seele> ugh, need food before i get another after-hours work-related phone call
[22:39] <seele> apparently if you tell people that your roommate is gone for the week, they think you'll be working late to make up for boredom
[22:39]  * seele head -> desks
[22:40] <emunkki> apachelogger, let's continue tomorrow?
[22:40] <apachelogger> emunkki: you can connect multiple clients a the same time, buffer log goes back to day 1 (i.e. you can scroll and scroll and scroll), you get all the gui goodness (systray notificaiton and stuff)
[22:40] <apachelogger> emunkki: aye
[22:40] <emunkki> hmmh
[22:40] <apachelogger> emunkki: thanks for the counter :D
[22:40] <emunkki> why would you like to connect multiple clients?
[22:40] <apachelogger> laptop and workstation
[22:41]  * apachelogger is working on both most of the time
[22:41] <emunkki> i still don't see why would you like to do that
[22:41] <emunkki> you can always detach/attach very easily if you have a shell connection open
[22:41] <emunkki> (normally up+enter)
[22:41] <apachelogger> so I get notice of highlights :P
[22:41] <emunkki> irssi can notice you of highlights as well
[22:42] <emunkki> basically even in systray ;)
[22:42] <apachelogger> that is connect detact/attach + connect detach/attach vs. connect + connect
[22:42] <emunkki> irssi is my favourite operating system
[22:42] <emunkki> err.. i mean irc client
[22:42] <emunkki> ;)
[22:42] <apachelogger> :P
[22:43] <emunkki> well i've had blog updating scripts in irssi
[22:43] <apachelogger> quassel got a chat monitor so I can track all the channels I am in without leaving my current one :P
[22:43] <emunkki> irssi can have one as well ;)
[22:43] <apachelogger> quassel is getting a lot richer scripting interface thanks to qtscript :P
[22:43] <emunkki> bah, perl is good ;)
[22:43] <emunkki> and irssi/terminal is leetness
[22:44] <emunkki> many people think you're doing something very important and hackish if you open a terminal
[22:44] <apachelogger> quassel core remembers everything everytime so even if your connection goes wocka it will reconnect to the very same channels you were in last
[22:44] <apachelogger> emunkki: one got a psuedo compolier plasmoid for that ;-)
[22:44] <emunkki> irssi can do that as well ;)
[22:45] <apachelogger> yah, sure :P
[22:45] <apachelogger> the difference is
[22:45] <apachelogger> quassel does all that by default :P
[22:45] <emunkki> k
[22:45] <emunkki> so a modified irssi might just be even better than quassel? ;)
[22:46] <emunkki> at least it can handle tabcompletion beter
[22:46] <emunkki> +t
[22:46] <emunkki> (even if it didn't fix your typos)
[22:46] <apachelogger> oh well, just consider how young quassel is, and how good it messures up already ;-)
[22:46]  * apachelogger is wondering if gcc will ever be fixed :|
[22:47] <emunkki> well it has a great clientbase to base on and compare to
[22:47] <emunkki> so kind of it makes the development easier when you know what people want
[22:47] <emunkki> and not introducing those new high-tech features all the time
[22:47] <emunkki> and having to invent them
[22:48] <emunkki> like, if microsoft decides to build a car, they'll prolly get the basic things right in a little time, because eg. wheel is invented
[22:49] <emunkki> what i really lack
[22:49] <emunkki> is synchronised notes app
[22:50] <emunkki> much like imap, but with notes
[22:51] <apachelogger> akonadi + opensync should be able to do that at some point
[22:51] <apachelogger> jpds: it appears to me kcookiejar doesn't want to be debugged
[22:52] <emunkki> akonadi doesn't seem to be so light
[22:52] <emunkki> if you only want notes
[22:53] <emunkki> maybe i'll just code a quick php one
[22:53] <emunkki> or sth with web-interface
[22:54] <emunkki> though that wouldn't work if i'm offline
[22:54] <emunkki> anyway, sleep ->
[22:54] <emunkki> see you tomorrow
[22:54] <apachelogger> nini emunkki