[00:02] apachelogger: Looks good to me. [00:19] hello people, now in Kubuntu Intrepid, if you want ot install sun-java6-plugin, it installs firefox, ubufox and all their dependences, this is becouse sun-java6-plugin has firefox as dependence and does not has konqueror, i have made a patch to change it in debian/rules [00:21] EagleScreen: debian/rules? [00:22] nooo [00:22] debian/control sorry [00:23] EagleScreen: file a bug report against the source package of sun-java6-plugin and attach the patch [00:23] i alreadu have filed a report [00:23] i am now testing my patch [00:26] ScottK: thank you [00:35] efternoon [00:37] aftermidnight [00:38] it seems that my patch works well :D [00:50] apachelogger: you could just do - Depends: * [00:51] vorian: rly? [00:51] why not? [00:52] *shrug* [00:52] vorian: do you have any MIRs to write? [00:52] you are about to install 33,287 packages. Do you wwant to proceed? [00:52] no, i don't [00:52] lol [00:53] to both questions [00:53] :P [00:53] hm [00:53] I think I am notsober enough to checkout all of kde www [00:53] haha [00:54] oh my [00:54] me@apoc { ~/src/svn/kde }$ svn up www [00:54] A www [00:55] * apachelogger is wondering why he keeps deleting that folder anyway [00:55] i like your bash [00:57] me too, it also shows how many screen windows I have opened :D [00:57] if I had any of course [00:57] ooh [00:58] screen the screen the screen [00:58] me@apoc [scr:1] { ~/src/svn/kde }$ [00:58] fancy [00:58] colours too? [00:58] everything green, the @ is red and the [scr:1] is yellow [00:59] * apachelogger likes fancy prompts :D [00:59] looks like we need a ffe on plasmoid-qalculate, kio-bookmarks, plasmoid-wifi/weather [01:00] ffe = feature freeze exception? [01:00] vorian: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot093.png [01:01] neversfelde: yus [01:01] vorian: kio already got one [01:01] at least I uploaded something with 2.1 recently IIRC [01:01] O.O [01:01] my eyes [01:01] ah, I had to think about it 2 or 3 minutes :) [01:02] vorian: the bottom green is a bit awful, isn't it :P [01:02] yeah :) [01:02] makes me know that this is the remote screen [01:02] * apachelogger always confused his local ones with his remote ones [01:02] Advocated September 05 17:36 apachelogger [01:02] All good. [01:02] Uploaded, archived. [01:02] Thank you! [01:02] not archived [01:02] not? [01:03] nay [01:03] omg [01:03] i can do it real quicklike [01:03] pretty please [01:03] alrighty [01:04] gone! [01:04] hooray [01:04] hmm [01:04] thinking about it ... revu should have an automagic archive trigger [01:04] apachelogger: that konqueror screenshot is hideous :) [01:04] like "Gone it be! [01:05] goatsocks: it is tango [01:05] you know, I had to take an oath to scream everytime I see tango when I joined oxygen [01:05] doing that screenshot was pretty exhausting [01:06] it makes konqueror look like *gasp* epiphany [01:06] it certainly does slower rendering though ;-) [01:06] oh noes! [01:07] btw, did I already show-off my all new Vbox? [01:08] http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot138.png [01:08] beautiful, isn't it :D [01:08] it's using qt4 now? [01:08] yes [01:09] vbox 2.0 only got released recently [01:09] testem [01:09] haha [01:09] where's the deb? [01:09] virtualbox.org [01:09] i fully expected to see iATKOS [01:10] * apachelogger seriously doesn't get that one [01:10] you're right, 2.0... they just released 1.6.6 the other day, guess they're on a roll :) [01:11] * apachelogger is wondering how long it would take to checkout kde www with git [01:11] is the intrepid iso boot problem under vbox fixed now? [01:11] vbox is the devil [01:12] goatsocks: no [01:12] I am really wondering if it is the kernel devs breaking compatibility all the time or the vbox devs doing non-future-proof development [01:12] hardy didn't work either until some weeks before release [01:16] apachelogger: i see 2.0 supports 64 bit guests, has anyone tried x86_64 intrepid yet? [01:16] would be funny if it worked [01:16] if canonical would buy me a 64big host... ;-) [01:17] i run 64bit intrepid [01:17] *64bit [01:17] vorian: install vbox and try running a 64bit intrepid :P [01:17] bot not with the devil vbox [01:18] heh [01:18] hm [01:18] i'll try it then [01:18] vorian: why do you thin the vbox is the devil? [01:18] well, spell it backwards [01:18] xbov [01:18] that's just wrong [01:18] *wonder* [01:19] xobv [01:19] kubuntu -> utnubuk [01:19] AH! [01:19] don't scare me like that [01:19] sounds like a vampire name [01:19] or a Hockey team [01:20] hm [01:20] or a bug tracker [01:20] ok, i'll buy that [01:20] they have uberfancy names like bugzilla and mantis and malone [01:20] maybe a team that helps kubuntu give back to debian? [01:21] hm [01:21] how does that relate to utnubuk [01:21] well i'm glad virtualbox.org is now hosting the sun version, but no intrepid, so i guess i'll have to build the OSE version :/ [01:22] whoa! [01:22] goatsocks: hardly a heron version should work on intrepid as well [01:22] * apachelogger thinks about watching a reel big fish [01:34] oh nice new registration form [01:36] ok fine [01:36] installing [01:36] devil box [01:37] vorian: but registration dialogs are surely of the devil? [01:37] yes always [01:37] who are you? [01:37] pfft [01:37] too big [01:37] i am a tool of the devil [01:37] haha [01:37] <-- devil? [01:37] the devils servant [01:37] slave [01:38] kio slaves ftw! [01:38] vbox slave [01:38] virtualslave [01:38] hm [01:38] virtual host -> virtual guest -> virtual node -> virtual slave [01:39] just think about it, a virtual cluster... [01:39] the hardy deb seems to work, except the USB config [01:39] who needs usb anyway [01:39] but i'm not using usb for any guest stuff so [01:43] * apachelogger hands vorian and goatsocks a devil cookie [01:45] nom [01:45] hm [01:45] * goatsocks eats devil cookie and wonders why the intrepid iso complains it's running on i686 [01:46] * goatsocks checks again... yep, installed the vbox for amd64 [01:46] this could be a hint as to what's wrong [01:48] * apachelogger is skanking in the channel [01:49] just to be sure i'll try a different 64bit distro iso [01:50] maybe the sun broke the devil [01:50] * goatsocks sucks up all of fedora's bandwidth [01:51] hm [01:51] you shouldn't do that [01:51] I am having an affair with fedora [01:51] but don't tell anyone [01:53] bah, they're topping out around 1 Mbps [01:55] oh, 7.2 Mbps [02:03] vorian: I got a ffe for kio-bookmarks and got 0.2.1 uploaded the other day [02:04] We need to reupload wifi/weather anyway since they're busted since they were compiled with 4.0.98 [02:04] so it could be counted as a bug [02:05] hmmm [02:06] can you file an ffe? [02:06] please :) [02:06] for weather/wifi? sure, I guess [02:10] vorian: there is a bug for weather not working already [02:11] heh the fedora 9 x86_64 guest does the same thing... "This kernel requires an x86-64 CPU, but only detected an i686 CPU. Unable to boot - please use a kernel appropriate for your CPU." [02:12] could be this hardy package... i'll try compiling OSE from scratch [02:13] JontheEchidna: sweet! [02:15] * JontheEchidna gets on preparing a rebuild package for weather [02:21] vorian: bug 262710 [02:21] Launchpad bug 262710 in plasmoid-weather "[intrepid] plasmoid-weather does not start, unknow applet" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/262710 [02:21] oh [02:21] forgot to actually remove the cdbs folder [02:22] hooray [02:23] ok, got a good debdiff up & deleted the old one [02:26] hool [02:26] bezaponi [02:28] that sounds weird [02:39] JontheEchidna: That's a bug, so it's fine to upload (the bookmarks thing). [02:40] ScottK: bookmarks already got sponsored/uploaded [02:40] Ah. [02:40] Misunderstood the conversation then. [02:40] wifi/weather then. === wolfger_ is now known as wolfger [04:22] Wahoo. Only 8 hours to build kdepim for Hardy Backports on hppa. [04:28] wow, lots of kde love in this week's ubuntu weekly newsletter [04:28] huh, linked to my talk at akademy too [04:29] good thing my webserver is back up :-/ [04:39] seele: Did you see the discussion about Adept icon changes here a day or so ago? [04:41] ScottK: i was here when they discussed what it could look like, but don't remember any conclusions [04:41] OK. I was hoping you'd have some advice. [04:42] not really until i see a picture [04:42] they could ask one of the oxygen people to come up with a concept [04:42] Maybe mornfall and goatsocks can make some. [04:42] dunno if kwwii could help them either [04:43] Personally, I mostly use apt-get, so it doesn't affect me much, but I think it's an important thing to get right. [04:43] double yes (i use apt-get too, but it would help to have a good icon as well) [04:44] Since they were arguing about usability, I thought you'd be a good referee. [04:46] yeah, we had diverging opinions on what direction the arrow should point [04:47] i forget who, but someone thought it should point up because of "update", but i thought it should point down because you download updates [04:47] up is used in other places as "send" or "upload" [04:49] I've successfully avoided having an opinion. [04:50] hah [04:52] So while you all are having fun on the bleeding edge, I'm trying to get kde 3.5.10 to build on hppa. [04:52] For Hardy. [04:58] oh i have pix [04:58] one sec [05:00] seele: here's the result of my patch in adept-manager: http://img.flashtux.org/img132690cda68x389afd17.png [05:00] seele: and adept updater: http://img.flashtux.org/img132690cea6bxe34ea603.png [05:01] the status icons now match the big icons in the leftmost pane, which is the user's selected kde icon theme (oxygen in this case) [05:02] i could make some screenies of unpatched adept, but i assume you already have it installed [05:04] oh, i thought you guys were talking about a general application and notification icon [05:04] i used an "up" arrow to indicate packages marked for upgrade because that's what synaptic does and i figure it wouldn't be good to have ubuntu's 2 major package manager gui's to have conflicting meanings [05:05] seele: oh no that was someone else's discussion the other day :) [05:05] do the icons in the list view include tooltips? [05:05] yeah, the tooltips are good and descriptive [05:05] wait, in the list view i haven't tested [05:05] and they show in the list, not just the key? [05:06] * goatsocks tests [05:06] ok no tooltips in the list, but the key has tooltips [05:06] it would be trivial to add them to the list too [05:07] no [05:07] they need to be on the list [05:07] otherwise you have to go back and forth from the list to the key to figure out what it means [05:08] which defeats the purpose of having them there instead of a label. it's supposed to help you scan and make a selection and do an action faster, not slow you down [05:09] it also makes it harder to learn the icons because people will get sick of referring back to the key constantly instead of easily checking the tooltip in context [05:09] sounds good, i'll send a patch to mornfall (since tooltips are orthogonal to our differences on iconography ;) [05:09] ok [05:10] should go to bed, was up way too late the other night [05:10] * seele waves. [05:10] g'nite [06:59] Oh, that's an oh-so-useless suggestion again. [06:59] And it's not a f-ing key, either. Maybe people should try using the app before giving usability advice. D'oh. [07:05] mornfall: right, but it's a key in the sense that it's the only place the status icons are identified (via tooltips) [07:09] Well, the icon's meaning is typed out in each list item. [07:10] mornfall: also true, however which text? for instance, if the icon in the list is a "remove" icon, the text will say "installed -- remove", and there is an icon for "installed" as well as "remove" [07:12] but that also ties into my opinion that there's redundant information there that could be hidden (and revealed via tooltip like seele suggested) [07:12] because the redundant information (as in the case i just described) could confuse uers [07:12] *users [07:16] you could take another approach and ditch the tooltips, and replace for example "installed -- remove" with simply "Marked for removal", since obviously adept will only allow you to remove a package if it's currently installed [07:16] goatsocks: Not so obviously, as that's not true. [07:17] how would it be meaningful to remove a non-installed package? [07:17] goatsocks: There's also "upgradable" and "broken" as states in which a package can be removed. [07:18] in both cases the package is installed however, and if the user marks it for removal it hardly matters whether it's broken, upgradable, or installed properly [07:20] the real problem is having to use a single icon to convey two different things: status and action [07:21] packagekit avoids that by using an icon for the status and a checkbox next to it for action [07:22] not sure i find that usable though [07:26] two icons might work: http://packagekit.org/img/kpk-information.png [07:27] and you could overlay a warning icon or up arrow icon on top of the package for broken/upgradable packages [07:34] Well, I think the interface is just fine. When someone comes with an usability survey identifying real problems, I will think about changing the concepts. Till then, it's just "I think users think like this" which has very low credibility. Moreover, it's a few weeks too late, since the software is frozen since beta1 (as I have announced on several occasions). If someone is willing to gather some actual data for 3.1, the better. [07:35] You see, I hear lots of opinions about what I should change, they often conflict and the suggestors are often highly convinced that they are the most right of all. [07:36] I do have limited time to work on adept, and as you see, beta 2 is slipping considerably. It would make sense to spend time on it, since it should have been out by last friday I guess. [07:38] fair enough... as i said it works for me on a technical level, but as for the gui, some parts of it hurt my brain ;) [08:23] as mentioned on a kde irc channel there seems to be a problem with the extragear-plasma on hardy you just get a black blob which if you click on you just get the option to "remove this unknown plasmoid" this happens to me with the twitter one, it looks like the package is still from 4:4.0.80-0ubuntu1~hardy1~ppa2 with no new 4.1.1 package available which is presumably causing the problem? [08:29] Nightrose: did you say twitter plasmoid worked for you in hardy? [08:30] seaLne: jep [08:30] but i have it added for a while already [08:30] and I am so not going to remove and readd it :P [08:30] version? [08:30] 4.1.1 [08:30] added since at least 4.1 [08:31] or do you want me to check the package version? [08:34] ahhhhh [08:34] seaLne: it is kdeplasma-addons now [08:34] should have upgraded though without problems... [08:52] ah yeah it sort of works if you ignore the fact that plasma workspace then crashed after adding for me [08:53] hmm its if i mouse over it that plasma crashes weird [08:55] but analog clock is fine maybe its a result of having the old version of the plasmoid loaded? i don't know enough about plasma... [08:58] *shrug* [08:58] me neither [08:59] i'd have thought the crashes and restarts should have flushed that though weird [10:16] moin [10:17] hey danimo :) [10:18] * danimo tries to figure out why okular in hardy doesn't want to load any backend except for ps [10:23] Nightrose: are you maybe not already on intrepid? :) [10:24] danimo: nope - still hardy here [10:24] Nightrose: does okular work for you? [10:24] and probably staying with it for another while ;-) [10:24] (with pdf) [10:24] jep worksforme [10:24] odd [10:25] trid kbuildsycoca4 --noincremental? [10:25] *tried [10:26] Nightrose: reinstallation helped :) [10:26] heh ok [10:38] ooh, I read all my outstanding e-mail this morning [10:40] smarter: you asked about libfacile-ocaml-dev, a while ago ocaml was wanted out of main but I see it's still in there so that shouldn't be a reason for not putting facile in main, fancy writing a MIR? [10:40] hey Riddell [10:41] I've never written one :) [10:42] smarter: start a wiki page FacilyMainInclusionReport and use the MainInclusionTemplate, fill in the blanks [10:43] s/Facily/Facile/ [10:44] ok [10:47] JontheEchidna: kolourpaint patch uploaded [10:50] I wonder if gcc is working this morning [10:58] on intrepid i keep having kdeartwork-theme-icon installed then later removed due to conflicts :( [11:05] since upgrading to intrepid konqueror looks like http://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/~kd/tmp/konq.png and dosen't do anything. anyone else seen this? [11:13] seaLne ! [11:14] kdeartwork-theme-icon conflicts with kdelibs from KDE 3 so understandable that it gets removed [11:14] but that shouldn't affect konqueror [11:14] seaLne: do you have kubuntu-desktop entirely installed? [11:16] gcc still broken, not a great time to upload anything [11:18] or dist-upgrade [11:29] well kubuntu-desktop isn't complaining if i try a reinstall of it so i guess its fine [11:31] seaLne: is konqueror fully installed [11:31] (shot in the dark) [11:32] konqueror is already the newest version [11:32] next I'd try removing ~/.kde/share/config/konquerorrc then ~/.kde/share/apps/konqueror/ [11:32] (save bookmarks.xml if you care about it) [11:34] deleting ~/.kde/share/apps/konqueror/ worked i guess its something weird with me if no one else saw it [11:35] more likely something weird with upgrade :( [11:35] :( [11:36] mvo said he would get hardy kubuntu-desktop-kde4 to intrepid kubuntu-desktop upgrades working in the dist upgrade tool [11:36] then we should work out an upgrade testing plan with the QA team [11:37] has it inproved much in the last week? my expierience of the upgrade couldn't be done by users [11:38] I moaned to him about the problems you had and that's what he's working on [11:39] you saw my reply with the disk space bug no? [11:41] yes [11:43] Riddell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportFacile :) [11:46] smarter: perfect, can you subscribe ubuntu-mir to that bug? [11:46] okay [12:03] Riddell: please retry kdelibs [12:04] apachelogger: you think gcc is fixed? [12:04] well, apparently kdelibs built on 2 arches [12:04] kdegraphics failed an hour ago [12:04] Two archs never got infected with the bad GCC. [12:05] oj [12:05] *oh [12:05] Why doesn't doko just revert the error causing change? [12:05] He tried. [12:06] :S [12:06] It apparently will take some manual intervention on the buildd's. [12:06] See http://tinyurl.com/6jjs2k [12:07] Now that is one awesome breakage :| [12:08] Btw, I am currently downloading our new KDE 4.1.1 Remix CD [12:09] apachelogger: ooh [12:18] Riddell: made in germany ;-) [12:18] * apachelogger suspects broken stuff all over the place [12:19] * goatsocks suspects stuff === rdieter_away is now known as rdieter [12:32] ranting helps at times [12:33] Riddell: kubuntu-restricted-extras doesn't need to depend on sun-java6-plugin, it only needs the -jre and the java path set in konqueror's config [12:35] apachelogger: presumably java still needs to be installed? [12:35] of course we have openjdk in main now [12:36] Riddell: yes a JRE is needed [12:36] I don't know about the compatibility of openjdk though [12:38] Riddell: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot139.png [12:39] Qt 4 goodness? [12:41] yeah, that too ;-) http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot138.png [12:41] but most importantly KDE 4.1.1 goodness [12:42] go 4.1.1! [12:48] hm, for every step of ubiquity it adds a new battery plasmoid [12:48] I am at step 4 apparently ;-) [12:52] huh? [12:56] Riddell: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot140.png [12:56] mm but whyever? [12:58] xsession-errors doesn't tell, I'll reboot and check plasma's stdout [13:14] mornfall: i have used it and i thought it was a key [13:14] its the only place you can figure out what the icons mean [13:20] Now, there are only 3 icons by default in manager: not installed, installed and upgradable. Is it *really* so hard to figure that the color-keyed text goes with the icon? When you choose an action, the icon of the item changes. I can imagine there are people who wouldn't notice the causality, but... I mean, is it really such a problem? [13:21] And when they don't figure what the icons mean, does it matter at all? [13:21] Riddell: doesn't happen now -.- [13:21] really odd issue [13:23] seele: I have been surprised as how many issues users will either ignore or work around. The icon "issue" really seems petty to me. [13:24] But maybe you could come up with use-cases where they really pose a problem? [13:26] argh.. what besides adept-manager and apt-get would lock sources.list? [13:26] * seele reboots [13:27] apachelogger: some of the readers of your blog are "geniuses" [13:28] the readers might be, the commenters not so much :P [13:28] only saw one so far [13:29] I saw: [13:29] -One person suggesting you switch distros [13:29] -One person just not getting it and calling you a crybaby [13:33] I saw: One person telling me that we don't even need that stupid java plugin, which doesn't essentially solve the original issue but helps improve kubuntu ;-) [13:34] apachelogger: It does occur to me that since the Java thing pulled in Firefox you can finish your MIR on the wiki now. [13:35] ScottK: I didn't install, neversfelde told me about it [13:37] K. [13:59] is it just me or are ubuntu sources really slow? [14:00] ubuntu sources? [14:00] apachelogger: awww. [14:01] apachelogger: i thought you'd be used to such things by now, running kubuntu [14:01] Hobbsee: sources.list sources are really slow for me and i'm not having any problems with my other computers [14:03] seele: strange. did you try a different mirror? [14:03] Hobbsee: I'll never be, and I will certainly never stop doing lobbying towards humanity for the the towards humanity distribution [14:03] apachelogger: good luck... [14:03] it just doesn't messure up to my expectations of a free desktop if one part doesn't care about the other [14:04] i'm sure it was an innocent oversight. [14:05] Hobbsee: there are too many of those IMHO [14:05] if I talk about free desktop browsers I think about firefox and epiphany and konqueror, not xulrunner for example [14:07] it should depend on www-browser not a horrible long list of browsers [14:07] righto [14:08] Riddell: btw, did you upload the 4.1.1 l10n stuff yet? [14:09] apachelogger: hum, seems I didn't [14:09] Riddell: I'll poke you once gcc is fixed [14:10] thanks [14:11] mornfall: i'll have to get back to you, my intrepid install is messed up [14:11] apachelogger: i know... [14:11] * Riddell hugs mornfall [14:20] * apachelogger added extra information to the kde 4.1.1 news [14:23] hi rdieter, have you tried system-config-printer-kde at all? [14:24] Riddell: no, not yet. [14:34] ryanakca: I fixed the support links at http://www.kubuntu.org/about [14:36] ryanakca: and the policy link at http://www.kubuntu.org/legal [15:01] !!!~~~~>Bat L10n WARNING: zh_TW not yet in the archives - please package manually!!!!!!!!!!!!! [15:01] Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [15:01] apachelogger: beastie somewhere in there [15:09] good morning [15:14] why hello nixternal [15:17] morning nixternal [15:17] hola nixternal [15:17] nixternal: please fix the icons in the join us bar at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu [15:18] hey visternal! [15:21] lol [15:22] Riddell: i have a patch for your software-properties-kde port, mostly consistency and cleanup... shall i mail it to you, or are you gonna give me the finger like mornfall? :) [15:24] apachelogger: what icons are you talking about? [15:25]