[00:00] <EagleScreen> i am using patch -p1 in the root of source folder, but it is not working
[00:01] <EagleScreen> directhex i followe this to create the patch https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff
[00:01] <bddebian> So try patch -p0 ?
[00:11] <EagleScreen> i tried
[00:13] <EagleScreen> it start working but never ends, never free the shell
[00:13] <laga> EagleScreen: you need to have a "<" between the patch command and the patch itself
[00:13] <laga> patch -p0 < some-patch.diff
[00:16] <EagleScreen> laga thanks you, it works now
[00:16] <laga> that's my second favourite problem with patch
[00:16] <laga> the one i like the best is where i forget to remove "--dry-run"
[00:17] <laga> and wonder why it wasn't working..
[00:17] <EagleScreen>  i dont know what  "--dry-run" is
[00:18] <laga> EagleScreen: it tries to apply the patch without actually changing the files. that's a good way to see if a patch still applies. but you really don't have to worry about that.
[00:20] <EagleScreen> ohh it simulates a patch apply isnt?
[00:21] <laga> yes
[02:10] <Elbrus> apachelogger: ping
[02:10] <apachelogger> Elbrus: pong
[02:10] <Elbrus> apackelogger: are you the same that was working on KSquirrel?
[02:11] <apachelogger> yes
[02:11] <Elbrus> apachelogger: are you the same that was working on KSquirrel?
[02:11] <Elbrus> last one, sorry
[02:11] <Elbrus> I am going through the copyrights for the package
[02:11] <apachelogger> uhh, fun :D
[02:11] <Elbrus> and in admin there are a lot of files also in the package kapptemplate
[02:12] <Elbrus> but not everything is very well written down there, but kapptemplate is in Debian
[02:12] <apachelogger> admin only includes GPL, LPGL and one file which which is 100% free
[02:12]  * apachelogger tires to find one of his kde 3 packages
[02:13] <Elbrus> yes, but how do >>I<< know that for my files
[02:13] <apachelogger> admin always inlcudes the same files
[02:13] <Elbrus> of course they are slightly different than the current package
[02:13] <apachelogger> it a tempalte directory from KDE for configure/makefile generation
[02:13] <Elbrus> so I must trust the makers of kapptemplate..
[02:14] <Elbrus> I use the template for the copyright file from http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat
[02:14] <Elbrus> any idea how I can mention this admin directory without figuring out all copyrightholders and licenses per file?
[02:15] <apachelogger> http://paste.ubuntu.com/44405/
[02:16] <apachelogger> you just need to mention that some files are LGPL, some GPL and that one file admin/am_edit is using a special licensing
[02:16] <Elbrus> but the copyrightholders?
[02:16] <Elbrus> They are all different.
[02:17] <apachelogger> for admin it doesn't matter, we used that template without copyright holders for all KDE 3 packages
[02:17] <apachelogger> in fact, you don't have to mention minor copyright holders
[02:18] <Elbrus> without special mention of the copyright holders for the individual files...
[02:18] <apachelogger> i.e. just major ones (especially does which have a different license than the main source)
[02:18] <apachelogger> Elbrus: yes
[02:18] <apachelogger> s/does/those
[02:18] <Elbrus> ok, but not sure how that can be accomplished in the http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat format
[02:19] <Elbrus> Then I will just copy from your example...
[02:19] <RAOF> Elbrus: Pretty easily...
[02:19] <Elbrus> apachelogger: thanks
[02:20] <apachelogger> Elbrus: make sure to check every source file individually
[02:20] <apachelogger> I think a lot of licenses will not be cought due to strange source file formating
[02:20] <apachelogger> at least it was like that for the libs
[02:20] <RAOF> Files: */Copyright: Friedrich W. H. Kossebau/Copyrgight: the other guy/License: GPL-2
[02:21] <Elbrus> RAOF: so Friedrich W. H. Kossebau is main and than the second line for the other contributor?
[02:21] <RAOF> Files: khalkhiapplet/.../.../Copyrgiht: other person/License GPL-2
[02:21] <RAOF> Elbrus: "Main"?
[02:22] <Elbrus> apachelogger: how about for instance bcheck.pl?
[02:22] <RAOF> Elbrus: I don't believe that CopyrightFormat (or, in fact, copyright law) makes a distinction between 'main' authors and others; either I (and posibly others) have copyright over this code or I don't.
[02:22] <apachelogger> Elbrus: in admin?
[02:23] <Elbrus> RAOF: main author of admin dir
[02:23] <apachelogger> there is no main author of admin dir
[02:23] <RAOF> Elbrus: Again, I don't think the "main author" concept is helpful at all.
[02:23] <Elbrus> ok
[02:23] <apachelogger> in fact there are more copyright holders than listed in the source files
[02:24] <apachelogger> this directory was maintained for various years by all of KDE, thus almost everyone add something ;-)
[02:24] <RAOF> Elbrus: The grouping in CopyrightFormat is only there to make things easier for you, so you don't have to list the copyright for each file individually.
[02:24] <Elbrus> apachelogger: so if IIUC your example is in fact not complete, and that was not a problem to get it in ubuntu?
[02:25] <apachelogger> Elbrus: you can't list a lot of copyright holders in reasonable manner in a maintainable way
[02:25] <Elbrus> RAOF: if I understand the meaning of the copyright file correctly it is EXACTLY the meaning of that file to state all the copyrights/licenses in the package
[02:25] <apachelogger> much more important is that all licenses are listed and that all license requirements are met (e.g. that complete copies of lgpl, gpl and gfdl are available... as required)
[02:26] <Elbrus> apachelogger: I agree, just trying to figure out how to do it in a maintainable way
[02:26] <apachelogger> grep for it ;-)
[02:26] <apachelogger> ack-grep --ignore-dir=debian --sort-files --nogroup --nohtml -i -u 'copyright (\(c\)|[0-9]{4,4}|by)'
[02:26] <Elbrus> apachelogger: licensecheck (from devscripts)
[02:26] <apachelogger> Elbrus: won't work
[02:27] <apachelogger> as I said, there are a lot of different formattings
[02:27] <apachelogger> ksquirrel upstream follows the theory that everything that is open source can be part of his tarball
[02:27] <apachelogger> so for the libs there were like 5 different licenses and >30 copyright holders IIRC
[02:30]  * apachelogger goes to bed
[02:30] <apachelogger> nini
[02:35] <Elbrus> apachelogger: goodnight
[03:03] <RAOF> Dear TPG: I don't need to be reminded that my time is precious every 25 sec on your hold line.
[03:04] <lifeless> RAOF: clearly its not precious
[03:05] <RAOF> It's so precious I get to bitch about it on IRC!
[03:05] <RAOF> Or, rather, I get to do something interesting while they tell me that they'll do their best not to keep me waiting long.
[03:06]  * RAOF would prefer that they do their best to keep my ADSL working, however.
[03:07] <wgrant> My head just combusted.
[03:07] <wgrant> Bug #267328
[03:08] <ajmitch> wall of text
[03:09]  * ajmitch cannot read that, eyes start bleeding
[03:10] <RAOF> Also posted on the forums, es.
[03:10] <RAOF> (yes)
[03:10] <RAOF> And a bunch of slideshows??
[03:11] <wgrant> Ah.
[03:11] <wgrant> It's actually a consolekit crash.
[03:11] <wgrant> I see.
[03:11] <ajmitch> or something like that, I think
[03:12] <wgrant> Hm.
[03:12] <wgrant> Did he post a copy of another bug in this bug?
[03:12] <wgrant> Yes.
[03:12] <tacone> "Now being drunk and an absolute UNIX newbie, I could not come up with anything smarter than: (..)"
[03:13] <RAOF> Because he thinks it's definitely not a duplicate of the bug it appears to be a duplicate of.
[03:13] <wgrant> Dear god.
[03:13] <wgrant> 2145 words.
[03:14] <ajmitch> And no line breaks for probably the first 1500 of those
[03:16] <wgrant> ajmitch: I'm afraid that content outside the superparagraph makes up only 126 of those words.
[03:17] <ajmitch> oh well
[03:19]  * wgrant cries.
[03:19]  * ajmitch leaves wgrant to reply to it in detail
[03:19] <wgrant> I also note that his screenshots fail.
[03:19] <wgrant> They seem to reference files in /tmp.
[03:20] <tacone> actually one of the images loads in one of the slideshows
[03:20] <wgrant> Oh? I didn't notice.
[03:21] <tacone> because you're on the first slideshow I guess. there are 3 if I am not wrong :)
[03:21] <wgrant> I only noticed two.
[03:21] <wgrant> But my vision is damaged from that essayparagraph.
[03:22] <wgrant> Ah! Indeed, the VBox one has images.
[03:23] <wgrant> Has anybody worked out what the security issue was yet?
[03:23]  * tacone is not brave enough to read sequentially
[03:23] <ajmitch> that the password that he was trying to type into sudo was displayed
[03:24] <EagleScreen> hello, I am uploading some packages to my ppa repository, i have used dput
[03:24] <wgrant> Ah, right. He probably wasn't actually running sudo.
[03:24] <ajmitch> if you actually scan the paragraph, there are about 5 bugs in there
[03:24] <EagleScreen> i think the packages have not the right ppa version
[03:25] <wgrant> ajmitch: The only sudo password issue I can see is in the other bug.
[03:25] <EagleScreen> okay, i am uploading sun-java6 rebuild, I used command: dput EagleScreen sun-java6_6-07-4ubuntu3~ppa_source.changes
[03:25] <tacone> ajmitch: and random stories and anedocts
[03:25] <wgrant> Which is fully quoted in a comment.
[03:26] <wgrant> 300 words are dedicated to the 4GB of RAM.
[03:26] <EagleScreen> but in the same folder there is binary deb packages with version 6-07-4ubuntu3, will them take the right ppa version in the archive?
[03:26] <tacone> he was also nice enough to copy paste the rest of the page. (including links)
[03:26] <wgrant> tacone: On the forum, too.
[03:27] <NCommander> wgrant, hrm, copy what to where?
[03:27]  * NCommander is having issues with the backscroll
[03:27] <ajmitch> only source packages get uploaded to the archive, but if 6-07-4ubuntu3 is in the archive, it would be installed in preference to the PPA version
[03:27] <wgrant> EagleScreen: Launchpad will build the debs with the same version as the source package, unless you've done very strange things which would cause anybody to inflict great pain upon you.
[03:28] <EagleScreen> my deb (already built) are being uploaded
[03:28] <wgrant> Wrong.
[03:28] <wgrant> You cannot upload binaries to Launchpad.
[03:28] <wgrant> Only the .dsc, .diff.gz and .orig.tar.gz.
[03:30] <EagleScreen> it seems as my local .deb files would being upload, see: http://paste.ubuntu.com/44420/
[03:31] <wgrant> You didn't upload the _source.changes.
[03:31] <wgrant> You uploaded the _i386.changes.
[03:31] <wgrant> That is a problem.
[03:31] <EagleScreen> :o
[03:32] <EagleScreen> yes wgrant, you are right, i did it
[03:32] <Hobbsee> wgrant: i really think that bug should be renamed "launchpad should test that users are sane, have an IQ higher than in the teens, and not be drunk, before letting them touch launchpad"
[03:33] <wgrant> I wonder if the bug is that his enter key is broken.
[03:35] <EagleScreen> the sun-java6_6-07-4ubuntu3_i386.changes file is the unique .change file i have, i made a copy called sun-java6_6-07-4ubuntu3~ppa_source.changes (to match with the ppa versions) and I run dput over it
[03:36] <wgrant> There is your problem. Don't do that.
[03:36] <wgrant> Use debuild -S.
[03:36] <jml> Hobbsee: do we get to decide who's sane? :P
[03:36] <ajmitch> jml: that would be interesting
[03:36] <Hobbsee> jml: i'ms ure you can come up with a good description :)
[03:37] <RAOF> I suggest an infinite number of monkeys implementing a turing test.
[03:37] <wgrant> The guy in that bug is not. That is the only definition we need for now.
[03:37] <RAOF> (This would be comparable to TPG's technical support)
[03:37] <wgrant> Hahaha TPG
[03:37] <RAOF> When it works, it works fine.
[03:38] <RAOF> When it doesn't...
[03:38] <RAOF> (And it almost always works)
[03:38] <EagleScreen> this pcakege was not build with debuild -S, it was build with debuild -b (binaries), it is a patched package, i wish to test a patch i made
[03:38] <wgrant> EagleScreen: Right, you must build it with debuild -S.
[03:38] <RAOF> EagleScreen: Yes.  But you cannot upload binaries to the PPA.  You _have_ to build it with debuid -S, or launchpad will reject it.
[03:39] <ScottK> Hobbsee: If sobriety was a requirement, my Launchpad usage would go way down.
[03:39] <EagleScreen> okay, it is the first time i use my ppa, i thought i could upload directly the .deb packages
[03:40] <EagleScreen> then i can cancel the upload right now isnt?
[03:41] <EagleScreen> one thing more, next time, before i upload .change file, have i to rename it to ppa version rules isnt?
[03:41] <wgrant> No.
[03:41] <wgrant> Do not rename changes files.
[03:42] <wgrant> Change the version in the changelog before you rebuild, but do not rename changes files.
[03:42] <EagleScreen> then debuild will use the version in changelog to build package? great!
[07:21] <liw> ScottK, sorry, wasn't around during the weekend, am around now
[07:55] <Ergo^> hello
[07:55] <Ergo^> i got redirected here from #ubuntu
[07:56] <Ergo^> im having a strange problem with hardy, i cant install python-dev package
[07:56] <Ergo^> seems there is some version mismatch and i cant downgrade the python2.5 package :/
[08:45] <dholbach> good morning
[08:49] <Laney> hi ho
[08:53] <karooga> morning
[09:05] <huats> morning all
[09:10] <\sh> damn....green it ... harhar... just got 2 MSA60 with 24 hds...and it produces so much of waste....
[09:27] <stefanlsd> If i would like to propose a fix to a project that is currently maintained in bzr.  How do i submit this up if i dont have permission to do so.   Should I be  1.  pulling the current bzr repo.  2. making the change.   3. creating a new repo on my lp bzr area.  4. pushing my code up to my bzr area.   5.  ask the bzr team to consider my branch and merge my fix  ?
[09:30] <RAOF> stefanlsd: That's one possible workflow, yes.
[09:30] <RAOF> stefanlsd: You can also send a merge directive ('bzr help send' for details), or just a patch.
[09:31] <RAOF> It depends on the project which they'd prefer.  Perhaps ask them! :)
[09:34] <stefanlsd> RAOF: kk. thanks
[09:35] <iulian> G'morning.
[10:11] <_ruben> hmm .. seems dkms doesnt provide a way to distrib binary packages, only build-when-installing packages .. unless there's some functionality missing the from the help.u.c community site regarding dkms
[10:15] <karooga> i'm getting complaints that I certain libraries shouldn't be linked because they use none of its symbols.  Is this a normal?
[10:15] <karooga> this is when I'm using pbuilder.
[10:21] <joaopinto> karooga, that is normal
[10:22] <karooga> joaopinto: ta
[11:10] <ScottK> liw: I don't recall exactly what I left in my ping before, but when I asked you why your cruft cleaner should get an exception, I think "Approved spec for Intrepid." would have been a good answer.
[11:11] <ScottK> liw: So personally, I'd be up for an exception on that basis if you want to put in for one.
[11:13] <directhex> testing... is ksirc behaving?
[11:13] <directhex> maybe?
[11:13] <directhex> no, i'm getting a new window for every message. sigh.
[11:14] <laga> directhex: oh really?
[11:14] <laga> new window?
[11:14] <laga> SRSLY? ;)
[11:14] <directhex> nah, i just have /topic and the user list in one window, this discussion in another
[11:15] <laga> ah.
[11:15] <directhex> garbage client, tbh
[11:15] <laga> irssi ftw
[11:15] <iulian> Indeed
[11:15]  * NCommander likes irssi actually
[11:15] <directhex> i'm restricted to what's installable
[11:15] <laga> what distro is that?!
[11:16] <directhex> sled, i think
[11:16] <laga> and it doesnt have irssi?
[11:16] <directhex> nup.
[11:16] <laga> hahahaha
[11:16] <laga> i can't believe that ;)
[11:16] <laga> maybe in some third party repo..
[11:16] <directhex> oh lord, i also have an empty user list every few seconds telling me " Users on #ubuntu-mono: @directhex"
[11:16] <directhex> and again
[11:20] <NCommander> directhex, it could be worse
[11:20] <NCommander> directhex, I once got the disturbing error message on an IRIX box "System Administrator Not Found"
[11:20] <NCommander> I was right there!
[11:22] <directhex> what a coincidence, i'm in sgi's offices
[11:23] <NCommander> directhex, please send me a MIPS box so I can port Ubuntu to it?
[11:24] <NCommander> That way, instead of "System Administrator Not Found" we can have "lp0: Printer on fire"
[11:25] <directhex> or "aieeeeeee"
[11:25]  * NCommander just made a comment suggesting emacs should have a major mode for archive administration
[11:25] <NCommander> :-/
[11:25] <NCommander> I should be shot
[11:27] <directhex> and an irc client built in!
[11:28] <NCommander> directhex, M-x irc
[11:29] <directhex> sles is a bit smelly. but it does use the "slab" gnome menu, which is cute
[11:30] <NCommander> directhex, sles?
[11:30] <karooga> How does one set pbuilder up for intrepid on hardy?  I don't see any scripts in /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/
[11:30] <NCommander> http://xkcd.com/396/ - rofl
[11:31] <NCommander> karooga, cp -r /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/hardy /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/intrepid
[11:31] <NCommander> karooga, pbuilder --distribution intrepid create
[11:31] <directhex> karooga, do you have hardy-updates on?
[11:32] <karooga> directhex:  I have hardy-updates man restricted on.
[11:33] <karooga> directhex: yes i do.
[11:36] <NCommander> hppa      0 builds waiting in queue
[11:36] <NCommander> Wow
[11:36] <NCommander> Hppa caught up
[11:37] <soren> It'll pass.
[11:37] <directhex> who runs ubuntu desktops on pa-risc?
[11:38] <soren> Noone except people wanting to prove a point.
[11:39] <soren> I'd love to be proven wrong on that, though.
[11:39] <NCommander> soren, we have people^W someone who wants a Ubuntu MIPS port
[11:40] <soren> NCommander: I'd put that in the "trying to prove a point" category.
[11:40] <directhex> i mean, ubuntu ps3 i can see a use case for. mips & hppa et al seem more the job for debian
[11:41]  * NCommander wants to do a port of Ubuntu to every Debian architecture*
[11:41] <NCommander> Given enough hardware
[11:41] <NCommander> I'll probably do it too :-/
[11:41] <NCommander> Hell
[11:41] <NCommander> I want to port Ubuntu to m68k :-/
[11:42] <NCommander> And that really isn't a joke
[11:42] <NCommander> I have enough machines to run m68k emulators to make it possible
[11:42] <directhex> to what end?
[11:42] <broonie> global warming :)
[11:42] <NCommander> To turn into Ubuntu buildds ...
[11:43] <NCommander> I can almost see myself kidnapped by the archive admins at UDS, locked in a closest, and beaten into submission
[11:45] <NCommander> directhex, its either porting Ubuntu, or the (Un)offical MOTU trading card game
[11:45] <NCommander> I just need to figure out which one to do first
[11:45] <directhex> i buggered my mp3 player. i seem to do that a lot
[11:47]  * NCommander can picture directhex as a card "Has +4 against mono packages, but -2 on successful sponsorship of said packages"
[11:47] <laga> hum
[11:47] <laga> i'm glad i'm not a motu yet ;)
[11:47] <directhex> ncommanser, don't forget the "runs an unofficial repo" penalty
[11:47]  * NCommander can see himself
[11:47] <laga> directhex: ouch!
[11:48] <NCommander> NCommander: "Can resolve any FTBFS, at cost of two sanity points. After ten sanity points, randomly kills another developer with illogical arguments"
[11:48] <directhex> (no tab completion, except on 4 specific users. thanks ksirc!)
[11:48] <directhex> make that five
[11:49] <NCommander> Pitti: "Is Greater Than Chuck Norris. Can instantly win the game if you (the player) rip off your shirt, and submit to the greatness of pitti"
[11:50] <NCommander> someone is going to read this backscroll and just go WTF
[11:52] <_ruben> heh
[11:53] <ScottK> NCommander: Up for another FTBFS (this is on Hardy lpia)?
[11:53] <NCommander> Depends
[11:53] <ScottK> NCommander: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17090849/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-lpia.kdenetwork_4%3A3.5.10-0ubuntu1%7Ehardy1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[11:53]  * NCommander checks his sanity points
[11:53] <NCommander> I got four left
[11:54] <ScottK> Note: It FTBFS in 3.5.9 too.
[11:54] <NCommander> A KDE package using autoconf :-P
[11:54] <NCommander> er
[11:54] <NCommander> *ew
[11:55] <NCommander> ScottK, I assume it builds find on i386?
[11:56] <ScottK> NCommander: Yes.  All other archs are fine.
[11:56] <ScottK> All the 3.5 packages use it.
[11:57] <NCommander> Well, it appears kppp isn't being built
[11:57] <NCommander> Now why that is the case is kinda confusing
[11:59] <NCommander> ScottK, have you made any debugging attempts?
[12:00] <ScottK> NCommander: Stared at the source for a while, did a bit of grepping and didn't reach any useful conclusions.
[12:01]  * ScottK will be back in a bit.
[12:01] <NCommander> Does it go boom on intrepid?
[12:02] <pochu> hi all!
[12:03] <ScottK> NCommander: Doesn't exist on Intrepid (it's the KDE4 version there)
[12:04]  * ScottK really going AFK now.
[12:04] <NCommander> oh yay
[12:04] <NCommander> Cya
[12:09] <soren> what would be an appropriate version number for a new, native package? I can't really decide. I want it to be < 1.0, and also show that it belongs to ubuntu, but 0.1ubuntu1 seems to suggest that there's a 0.1 version in Debian.
[12:15] <soren> Prior art seems to suggest "0.1". I'll do that.
[12:31] <devfil> persia_: can you please add me to ubuntu-universe-sponsors team?
[12:35] <stefanlsd> I havent heard persia speak for a while. I suspect he may have been kidnapped.
[12:50] <karooga> do i put my own details for Maintainer: in the control file or ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com ?
[12:50] <karooga> ...if I'm the one doing the packaging :-)
[12:50] <stefanlsd> If its for Universe, you leave the motu one
[12:50] <directhex> ubuntu-motu for universe packages
[12:51] <stefanlsd> there is an update-maintainer  script which is also useful for this
[12:51] <karooga> thanks
[12:53] <karooga> and for achitecture?  I was using 'any' but maybe it should be 'all'?  Package is python bindings for a c program.
[12:53] <wgrant> any
[12:54] <wgrant> all implies that the same binary will work on all architectures.
[12:54] <karooga> wgrant: i see.  Cool.
[12:54] <directhex> "all" is something cross-platform like documentation or .net apps
[12:54] <stefanlsd> whats the difference between an SRU and a backport?
[12:55] <directhex> "any" is "compile this for i386 and amd64 and x and y and z"
[12:57] <karooga> thanks.
[13:02] <pochu> devfil: congrats for your MOTUship :)
[13:03] <directhex> in celebration, you get to sponsor all my stuff
[13:04] <devfil> pochu: thanks :)
[13:05] <devfil> directhex: ehm....
[13:05]  * devfil hides :P
[13:05] <directhex> actually, my TODO currently only contains packages in main
[13:06] <pochu> which means, devfil has to apply for core-ship then sponsor you ;)
[13:06] <devfil> no no :P
[13:06] <directhex> or you could volunteed, pochu :)
[13:10] <stefanlsd> If there is a package in Universe in Hardy which is broken - would i be doing an SRU to get the Intrepid package in its place, or a backport?  If i understand backports correctly, they are more optional as long as the user is subscribed to backports?
[13:10] <wgrant> stefanlsd: You should be doing an SRU with a minimal patch to get it working.
[13:10] <wgrant> stefanlsd: You will not put the Intrepid package in its place.
[13:10] <wgrant> Backports are not for fixing important bugs.
[13:11] <stefanlsd> wgrant: ok. so backports are updating versions to add new functionality...
[13:11] <directhex> pochu: infact, this is a package you're in changelog.Debian.gz for. it'd be a blast from the past!
[13:11] <wgrant> stefanlsd: This is correct.
[13:12] <stefanlsd> wgrant: thanks. would i be building a diff between the intrepid and hardy version for the SRU then?
[13:13] <wgrant> stefanlsd: No, between hardy and hardy-proposed.
[13:13] <wgrant> Intrepid has nothing to do with an SRU.
[13:15] <stefanlsd> wgrant: ok, although the package in intrepid has been upgraded and fixed. there is also a security update that prob should  go into hardy - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openvpn/+bug/265058
[13:16] <pochu> directhex: which package is it?
[13:16] <wgrant> stefanlsd: You need to identify the absolutely minimal patch that fixes the bug, and apply that to hardy.
[13:16] <directhex> pochu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/monodoc/+bug/256853
[13:17] <pochu> ouch
[13:17] <pochu> let me have a look
[13:17] <stefanlsd> wgrant: ok. thanks. i guess i'll try work on identifying that.
[13:19] <pochu> directhex: don't you need a feature freeze exception?
[13:19] <pochu> directhex: or is it bug fix only?
[13:20] <directhex> pochu: it's not bugfix, it's an upstream update to match the rest of the stack
[13:20] <directhex> pochu: and i've been told conflicting info on FFe or not
[13:21] <directhex> pochu: i have all the FFe required info attached though, e.g. log of package in use, build log, etc
[13:21] <pochu> directhex: so subscribe ubuntu-release and put a rationale explaining why we need it
[13:22] <pochu> directhex: oh, I'm not core-dev, can't sponsor you
[13:22] <directhex> bleh
[13:22] <directhex> it's remarkably hard to get non-broken packages into intrepid
[13:23] <directhex> james_w: since webkit# got its MIR approved, and a test build of a sync seems to work, do you have any objections to requesting a sync for mono-tools?
[13:24] <james_w> directhex: not at all
[13:24] <james_w> directhex: I hadn't done it yet because I hadn't tested it, but if you are confident then please go ahead
[13:24] <james_w> directhex: and thanks
[13:24] <directhex> james_w: also going to need a FFe, isn't it :/
[13:25] <james_w> I expect so
[13:26] <directhex> bleh
[13:31] <stefanlsd> how can i download a hardy source package while using intrepid. I have got the hardy deb-src in apt-sources and tried apt-get package=olderversion  but doesnt seem to be working?
[13:32] <pochu> stefanlsd: have you updated the cache?
[13:32] <pochu> it works fine here
[13:33] <stefanlsd> pochu: mm. apt-cache policy  doesnt have anything hardy related...
[13:35] <stefanlsd> pochu: do you know if i need the normal deb http://  - not just deb-src?
[13:36] <riot_le> hi i have an newbie-question about bugfixing, how long does it usually take when i subscribe u-u-s to an bug till i got a comment back?
[13:38] <pochu> stefanlsd: deb-src is enough
[13:39] <pochu> stefanlsd: have you executed 'sudo aptitude update' ?
[13:39] <stefanlsd> pochu: mm. weird.   yeah. def.   does apt-cache policy show you hardy entries?
[13:40] <ScottK> riot_le: It varies a lot.  It can be a few hours or sometimes days/over a week.
[13:41] <riot_le> ah ok, i started with bugfixing after dholbachs great Sessions about it at the UDW last week
[13:42] <dholbach> riot_le: don't lose patience yet, after hitting Feature Freeze (everybody was busy with lots of stuff), we're slowly catching up with sponsoring items again :-)
[13:44] <pochu> stefanlsd: yes
[13:44] <pochu> err no
[13:44] <Hobbsee> dholbach: how many have you sponsored today?  :)
[13:44] <pochu> stefanlsd: apt-cache madison does though
[13:45] <dholbach> Hobbsee: up until now I was busy catching up with emails, so none yet
[13:45] <pochu> hi dholbach
[13:46] <dholbach> hiya pochu
[13:47] <riot_le> what is more stressfull the time for or after an release ;-)
[13:49] <Hobbsee> dholbach: get to it!  :)
[13:49] <Hobbsee> riot_le: before?
[13:50] <dholbach> riot_le: it's like soccer games, after the release^Wgame is before the release^Wgame
[13:50] <riot_le> yes famous german soccer phrase
[13:50] <dholbach> :-)
[13:51] <stefanlsd> pochu: i think i found out. i didnt have a src for hardy-security and the package is now in there. checking...
[13:53] <riot_le> i understand. I just saw the Harvest-List with all the Patches witch are  available and said to myself - damned who can control such a huge list
[13:54] <directhex> james_w: you're probably getting mono-tools spam round about now
[13:54] <Hobbsee> yay, spam!
[13:58] <stefanlsd> pochu: furthermore i am an idiot and it was in main and not universe.   :)
[13:59] <pochu> heh
[14:03] <directhex> okay. james_w, does it look like anything's missing from that bug?
[14:05] <james_w> directhex: let me check
[14:05] <directhex> frankly i object to the "include a debdiff" bit, since it's meaningless for known major upstream changes
[14:06] <james_w> directhex: I'd change the title and description
[14:06] <directhex> james_w: how do i retitle a bug?
[14:09] <james_w> directhex: click the little pen icon next to the title
[14:10] <directhex> that's a pen? i thought it was an exclamation mark O_o
[14:10] <mterry> directhex: Seems to be a common mistake  :)
[14:16] <jdstrand> soren: re 0.1> I have taken the approach that if it is ubuntu only, it's native versioning, otherwise add ubuntu1
[14:17] <soren> jdstrand: Gotcha. :)
[14:20] <directhex> okay. subscribe ubuntu-release on these then?
[14:26] <james_w> directhex: I believe so, yes
[14:27] <directhex> okay, done. i'm not sure now more noisy & obnoxious i can be about these packages really
[14:27] <directhex> but i want to avoid something like the hardy ada transition
[14:32] <coolbhavi> hello... how to get pbuilder log file output?
[14:32] <directhex> i think using --logfile /path/to/output
[14:32] <coolbhavi> example please...
[14:34] <coolbhavi> is it like --logfile /home/bhavi/pbuilder.log?
[14:35] <StevenK> coolbhavi: I usually redirect it to tee
[14:35] <StevenK> pbuilder .... | tee logfile
[14:35] <directhex> or that. both work.
[14:36] <coolbhavi> okay thanks
[14:37] <nxvl> coolbhavi: nice to see you around
[14:37] <nxvl> coolbhavi: how is your motu jorney going? everything fine?
[14:37] <coolbhavi> nxvl, fine
[14:38] <nxvl> coolbhavi: is cool to hear that :D keep up the hard work
[14:42] <dholbach> Koon: congratulations!
[14:43] <Koon> dholbach: yay !
[14:48] <dholbach> iulian: congratulations! :)
[14:50] <nxvl> dholbach: they get their 3th ack?
[14:50] <nxvl> wooohoo
[14:51] <nxvl> they did
[14:51] <nxvl> Koon: congrats!
[14:51] <nxvl> iulian: same to you!
[14:51] <Koon> nxvl: thank you :)
[14:54] <coolbhavi> nxvl, but I am learning
[14:54] <coolbhavi> nxvl, the hard way by making mistakes :)
[14:54] <stefanlsd> grats Koon and iulian :)
[14:54] <slytherin> Koon: Congrats. You are getting lot of praise for the java server stack work. :-)
[14:55] <Koon> slytherin: thank you :)
[14:55] <Koon> stefanlsd: thanks
[14:56] <slytherin> iulian: congrats :-)
[14:56] <bddebian> Heya gang
[14:58] <dholbach> fta: congratulations!
[14:59] <Hobbsee> dholbach: another day, another motu? :)
[15:00] <huats> Koon: congrats !
[15:00] <dholbach> Hobbsee: I don't think that's the rate we're at :-)
[15:00] <huats> iulian: congrats too
[15:00] <coolbhavi> nxvl, thanks :)
[15:01] <Koon> thx huats !
[15:01] <nxvl> dholbach: what that's the rate we should have :D
[15:01] <dholbach> nxvl: more! :-)
[15:02] <nxvl> "And today's motuship goes to...."
[15:02] <huats> dholbach: and nxvl you know... if someday you haven't anyone : you can ping me... :P
[15:02] <nxvl> heh
[15:03] <nxvl> my head is killing me i really hate planes
[15:07] <Hobbsee> dholbach: is it only every second day?  :P
[15:08] <laga> i'd volunteer ;)
[15:08] <dholbach> Hobbsee: not yet :)
[15:09] <\sh> guys..can someone enlighten me what has a higher prio in a bug report: confirmed or triaged
[15:10] <Hobbsee> \sh: triaged.
[15:10] <dholbach> they have a different meaning
[15:10] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status
[15:11] <nxvl> dholbach: can i congratulate NCommander already or should i wait for one more ack?
[15:11] <Hobbsee> \sh: that's why it's closer to the fix released, which trumps all.
[15:11] <dholbach> nxvl: we usually wait 7 days so everybody can have their say
[15:11] <\sh> hmmm
[15:11] <\sh> then I don't get it
[15:12] <nxvl> dholbach: after the 2 ack's?
[15:12] <RainCT> iulian: congrats!
[15:12] <nxvl> s/2/3
[15:12] <\sh> we have a bug about seahorse not working with smartcard readers...the upstream bug is confirmed, but upstream can't or won't work on it, because of missing hardware...how can we set it to triaged? (if triaged is a higher prio then confirmed...well, from the meaning i still think confirmed is higher then triaged..but that's me)
[15:13] <dholbach> nxvl: if after 7 days it is +3, we can process the application
[15:14] <iulian> dholbach, nxvl, slytherin, huats, RainCT: Thank you guys.
[15:14] <nxvl> oh! 7 days from the application
[15:14] <nxvl> ok ok, got it
[15:21] <karooga> any ideas why a package would build fine in hardy but not in intrepid?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/44561/
[15:23] <karooga> the only difference I can think of is the changelog, which would have s/intrepid/hardy/ or have I missed something?
[15:25] <devfil> fta, iulian, Koon: congrats :)
[15:25] <Koon> hey devfil, congrats too :)
[15:29] <stefanlsd> karooga: many things change between releases. It would depend on the build error. Can you paste it to pastebin?
[15:30] <karooga> stefanlsd: it can be found at ﻿http://paste.ubuntu.com/44561/
[15:31] <coolbhavi> I m not getting how to output pbuilder log ...:(
[15:32] <stefanlsd> coolbhavi: --logfile filename
[15:32] <stefanlsd> coolbhavi: sudo pbuilder build --logfile logfile dscfile
[15:32] <stefanlsd> i think
[15:32] <stefanlsd> karooga: its a dependency error. So one of the deps specified in debian/control are incorrect.
[15:33] <karooga> coolbhavi:  pbuilder --build --logfile ./pbuilder.log *.dsc
[15:33] <stefanlsd> karooga: it will be a Build-Depends and the offending one is libg2c0-dev
[15:34] <karooga> stefanlsd: so perhaps this library is not in intrepid?
[15:34] <stefanlsd> karooga: that doesnt exist on my intrepid. not sure where it went or why, but i think it might be related to gcc 3.4.
[15:35] <karooga> stefanlsd: as far as I know it's the fortran compiler
[15:40] <karooga> stefanlsd: you're right, lp, doesn't have any details of it.  What is the right channel to ask about this?  #ubuntu-devel?
[15:41] <stefanlsd> yeah, here or there.   :)     sorry i cant help, not to familair myself.   What is useful though - if you can find a hardy package that used it, and a new intrepid version - and see what they did between the versions
[15:42] <karooga> stefanlsd: it would seem this package just doesn't exist in intrepid.
[15:42] <wgrant> stefanlsd, karooga: g2c is the old fortran library used by g77 (IIRC). gfortran uses gf.
[15:42] <wgrant> Everything should be using gfortran these days.
[15:46] <karooga> wgrant: thanks.  I don't see any devel packages for gfortran though?
[15:54] <slytherin> geser: there?
[16:06] <NCommander> nxvl, ?
[16:17] <geser> slytherin: yes
[16:18] <slytherin> geser: In case you are not too busy, can you please ack 267204, 267203 and 267202?
[16:19] <directhex> and 243093 and 256853
[16:35] <sebner> iulian: Koon : Congratulations \o/
[16:36] <Koon> sebner: thanks !
[16:37] <RainCT> ScottK: Do you happy to know how I can install an executable into /usr/games with distutils? (Nobody answers on #python :()
[16:41] <iulian> Thanks sebner.
[16:44] <tech2000> Hi guys...
[17:17] <ScottK> RainCT: Look at the setup.py for pypolicyd-spf (that's the source package name).  Would what I used for data_files work?
[17:22] <RainCT> ScottK: Yeah, I've thought about using that but I was wondering if there was a "proper" way to do it. Thanks
[17:23]  * ScottK is more into 'working' than 'proper' generally.
[17:23] <ScottK> Dunno which that qualifies as.
[17:24] <RainCT> heh yes that saves time :)
[17:49] <sebner> geser: yeah, you are my ACK hero :D \o/
[18:03] <geser> sebner: looks like I'm again in a sponsoring spree :)
[18:04] <sebner> geser: :D though I'm afraid since everbody is missing my older sync requests (>1 week old)  :(
[18:43] <geser> ScottK: does a sync request bug count as documentation for getting a bug fix release into intrepid?
[18:44] <ScottK> geser: Yes.
[18:47] <sebner> geser: big points for me, hmm? ^^
[18:48] <geser> I was just acking the sync request for bitlbee
[18:51] <sebner> geser: filed 35 minutes ago, ACked 5 minutes ago. you're like a machine :P
[18:58] <ScottK> sebner: Please don't be manually sync'ing the entire archive ....
[18:59] <sebner> ScottK: bah don't complain, the last few weeks I was *just* syncing from the RC bug list :P
[18:59] <ScottK> Great.
[18:59] <sebner> ScottK: though running autosync longer would be a great idea ;)
[19:14] <geser> sebner: looking at bug 263093: what's your reason to want it synced right now?
[19:14]  * sebner looks
[19:15] <sebner> geser: true, in this case mainly package cleanups but I'm just afraid my older syncs will be lost/forgotten ^^
[19:16] <nxvl> NCommander: ping
[19:18] <un> i dunno if this is a good channel to ask, but my Makefile.am keeps generating a 'dist dist-all' rule when it should be 'dist-all' only... anybody got any ideas, or *channel
[19:19] <geser> sebner: I try to look also at older bugs. It depends on my available time how much time I want to invest to check if it's worth syncing now (a clear reason e.g. in the changelog makes it easier).
[19:20] <sebner> geser: I appreciate. I just want to make clear that I'm not forcing you ;) It's just that you are my sync hero now but I only see my never requests ACKed. so don't worry and please, no stress :)
[19:24] <geser> sebner: what should I do with bug 263091? It's worth an ACK but Debian has a new upstream version now :(
[19:25] <sebner> geser: you are the MOTU :P , well I'd check if new upstream is worth it and if yes I'll file a fFe
[19:26] <sebner> geser: hmm ^^ ra_1.1.2 Sep 3 2008
[19:26] <sebner> Ported to R 2.7.2
[19:26] <un> anybody know of a better channel to ask in? I'm sure im floodin ur space... im not motu, nor motu material...
[19:27] <verwilst> i want to make a package that's marked as pre
[19:27] <verwilst> with a revision nr
[19:27] <verwilst> for my ppa
[19:27] <verwilst> how do i do it?
[19:27] <verwilst> 1.5.4 was the previous beta
[19:27] <verwilst> 1.6 will be the stable version
[19:27] <verwilst> is this 1.5.5-pre5966~ppa1 for example?
[19:27] <verwilst> ?
[19:27] <verwilst> or 1.0-pre5966?
[19:27] <verwilst> 1.6*
[19:28] <verwilst> i want it to be higher than 1.5.4 and lower than 1.6 :)
[19:28] <sebner> geser: well, some new things but 3 times more bugfixes
[19:28] <sebner> geser: /me is going to prepare a FFe
[19:29] <geser> sebner: I guess I go hunting for the version you wanted on snapshots.d.o
[19:29] <ScottK> verwilst: How about 1.5.4+pre5966~ppa1
[19:29] <verwilst> ooooh fancy ;)
[19:29] <verwilst> thanks :)
[19:30] <verwilst> that will be higher than 1.5.4?
[19:30] <sebner> geser: I don't understand O_o
[19:31] <geser> sebner: the Debian time machine: http://snapshot.debian.net/
[19:31] <ScottK> verwilst: Yes
[19:31] <geser> and upload it directly
[19:31] <verwilst> ScottK: and orig tarball will be zabbix_1.5.4+pre5966~ppa1.orig.tar.gz?
[19:54] <un> i know all (most) 211 of you know how to make Makefile.am files, can some bored person throw me a link
[19:55] <Pici> I dont.
[19:55] <un> i've just been asking in at least 40 channels for some autotools help, i can't even find a channel on autotools
[19:57] <torkel> un: try google:autotools+irc+channel
[19:59] <un> torkel: thanks, but i just get ubuntu-programming and the like... i know autotools, it's just that one of my files is behaving irradically and I can't figure out why...
[20:02] <mnemo> apparently, the old games "heretic" and "hexen" has been released under the GPL now --> http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=864305  would be nice to have them packaged in debian/ubuntu... I've filed this bug to track the request --> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/267885
[20:04] <torkel> un: you can always ask about you specific problem in the (appropiate) channels instead of asking for where to ask for help
[20:05] <geser> persia_: any idea what to do with bug 261986? you acked it before FF, but ubuntu-archive didn't get subscribed
[20:06] <un> torkel: sry for trolling this channel but I can't find any help... anywhere... ill leave now
[20:08] <fta> devfil, thanks.
[20:31] <jimcooncat> this is probably offtopic, but someone suggested I try here:
[20:31] <jimcooncat> I want to package a custom configuration, for example, openssh-server. I just want to have my custom /etc/ssh/sshd_config and a postinst to reload the running sshd. Should openssh-server be a depends of my new package, or pre-depends?
[20:36] <jpds> jimcooncat: /etc/ssh/sshd_config belongs to the openssh-server package I believe, and dpkg will not allow you to change it unless you conflict on your custom package.
[20:38] <jimcooncat> oh, so I'd have to make a whole copy of the openssh-server package?
[20:39] <jpds> jimcooncat: I suggest making changes directly to openssh-server itself and appending: "+0local1" to the Debian package versioning.
[20:39] <jimcooncat> modify to my taste, and tell it that it conflicts with openssh-server
[20:40] <jimcooncat> ok, thanks much jpds!
[20:41] <jpds> jimcooncat: That's what I learnt reading this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1593270690/
[20:42] <jimcooncat> so I take it that apt won't let one package overwrite a conf file that another one provides?
[20:42] <jpds> No, dpkg won't allow it.
[20:45] <jpds> jimcooncat: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-files.html#s10.7.4
[20:45] <jimcooncat> jpds very good, I got some of the book showing on Google books search
[20:46] <jimcooncat> so I use versioning, rather than renaming the package, I just have to be careful that upstream doesn't plug a security update -- or I won't be notified?
[20:47] <jpds> jimcooncat: You'd have to keep the package in sync with Debian/Ubuntu.
[20:51] <siretart> someone knowledgable with elisp around?
[20:52] <sebner> siretart: still interested in mlt? Will work on it tomorrow. A little bit tricky especially since I have to decrease the d-p on the codecs to make it build
[20:53] <siretart> sebner: well, it is pretty broken atm. I'd love to see it usable :-)
[20:54] <sebner> siretart: well, at leasts it's building if I decrese the b-p :P but t
[20:54] <sebner> siretart: but I have to sort the other stuff. remaining changes ,...
[20:55] <siretart> k
[20:57] <sebner> siretart: If I have question I'd ping you? though you are hard to reach ^^
[20:59] <siretart> sebner: try email or jabber
[20:59] <sebner> siretart: then mail though last time you responed 3 days later and I suppose you want buildable stuff :P
[21:07] <siretart> sebner: make sure to CC the launchpad bug!
[21:25] <sebner> siretart: of course :)
[21:42]  * NCommander lives
[21:44] <NCommander> nxvl, ping?
[21:54] <nxvl> NCommander: you have experience rebuilding entire repos, right?
[21:54] <NCommander> nxvl, yes
[21:54] <nxvl> NCommander: what did you use (as in what dak script)
[21:54] <NCommander> nxvl, mini-dak
[21:55] <NCommander> nxvl, http://git.debian-ports.org/
[21:56]  * nxvl HUGS NCommander 
[21:56] <NCommander> what did I do?
[21:57]  * NCommander has also use the fullblown dak suite
[21:58] <norsetto> huats ...
[21:59] <huats> norsetto: !
[22:00] <NCommander> nxvl, why do you ask?
[22:01] <nxvl> NCommander: rebuilding a set of packages and don't want to write a script if there is already one
[22:01] <NCommander> nxvl, you could just use dpkg-scanpackages, mini-dak may be overblown unless you need incoming support
[22:02]  * nxvl checks
[22:02] <nxvl> NCommander: i already have a Sources.gz and stuff
[22:03] <NCommander> nxvl, if you have all the debfiles, use apt-ftparchive or dpkg-scanpackages
[22:19] <karooga> hi whats the best way to test one's package attempts?  dpkg -i mypackage.deb seems a bit dangerous.
[22:19] <RAOF> karooga: That's what I tend to do.  But "test" can have multiple meanings.
[22:20] <Laney> I usually test in a VM if I'm at all concerned
[22:20] <RAOF> You can list the contents that will be installed and where, and you can print out the various maintainer scripts (dpkg --info)
[22:20] <RAOF> All my packages are perfect!
[22:20] <karooga> RAOF:  I use my laptop in a production environment so I don't want to nuke it and have to reinstall.
[22:20] <RAOF> Or, at least, don't contain maintainer scripts running rm -r /
[22:21] <Laney> Heh, I saw a SRU a few weeks ago where a maintainer script could do that under some circumstances
[22:21] <RAOF> Eeep!
[22:21] <NCommander> O_O;
[22:21] <karooga> Yikes!
[22:21] <RAOF> karooga: I've never hosed my laptop by installing one of my testing packages.
[22:21] <NCommander> DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER :-P
[22:22] <nhandler> Does anyone know if it is possible to run lintian on a package in the repositories, without first downloading the package to your computer?
[22:22] <karooga> RAOF: yeah, i'm pretty sure this won't either.  Just trying to learn to do thing the right (TM) way. :-)
[22:22] <Laney> nhandler: The PTS shows Lintian status if it's in Debian
[22:22] <Laney> I don't know of similar for Ubuntu
[22:23] <RAOF> karooga: VMs if you're paranoid; bare metal if you're not :)
[22:23] <nhandler> Laney: I know that. I'm interested in manually running lintian on a package in the repositories.
[22:23] <Laney> As in running it on-demand? I doubt it
[22:23] <karooga> RAOF, thanks.  And when I'm sufficiently confident that it works?  Do I pop over to revu?
[22:24] <nhandler> Ok, thanks Laney.
[22:24] <RAOF> karooga: If it's a new package, yeah.
[22:31] <karooga> RAOF: the packaging / maintenance / suitability review - must all three pass before inclusion into the repos?
[22:34] <RAOF> Well, we don't do much of a suitability review, and maintenance is hard to judge ahead of time!
[22:35] <karooga> RAOF: just concerned maybe I'm wasting my time
[22:35] <karooga> RAOF: I'm just doing the packaging, I'm not the developer.
[22:36] <RAOF> That's the normal state of affairs, yes.
[22:36] <RAOF> karooga: Why would you be wasting your time?
[22:36] <RAOF> karooga: Although it's worth noting that it's very unlikely that a new package will get into Intrepid, given FeatureFreeze.
[22:37] <karooga> RAOF: I know about FF.
[22:38] <karooga> RAOF: typically would you dev for current and current+1 for a new package?
[22:38] <RAOF> Ok.
[22:40] <RAOF> I'm not quite sure what you're asking.
[22:40] <RAOF> Typically I'd try to fix bugs in the packages I touch, and some of those will involve new upstream versions.
[22:42] <karooga> RAOF: I'm just trying to get an idea of timelines...
[22:43] <RAOF> Now we're more interested in bugfixing, and will be until the release.
[22:44] <RAOF> Then there's a month or so of craziness/UDS/etc, and after that there's a couple of months for new packages etc.
[22:45] <karooga> RAOF: so new packages will only get accepted during that period?
[22:45] <RAOF> Not necessarily, but usually.
[22:47] <karooga> RAOF: and they would only be accepted for the current devel release?  i.e. packages in stable and past releases typically stays the same
[22:48] <RAOF> karooga: Indeed.
[22:49] <RAOF> karooga: New packages will only make it in to releases via the current development release (through backports), yes.
[22:50] <karooga> RAOF: cool