[12:50] <hubuntu> http://dev.chromium.org/developers/how-tos/build-instructions-linux
[12:50] <hubuntu> men merk at: Note: There is no working Chromium-based browser on Linux. Although many Chromium submodules build under Linux and a few unit tests pass, all that runs is a command-line "all tests pass" executable.
[12:51] <hubuntu> sorry.. wrong vchannel
[13:47] <bladiebla> newz2000, are you there?
[14:31] <newz2000> bl
[14:31] <newz2000> oops
[14:31] <newz2000> hi
[14:31] <thorwil> nice, just in time, as i wanted to ask, too :)
[14:32] <thorwil> newz2000: seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/IntrepidCountdownBanners?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=tw_intrepid_countdown_04_spiral.png ?
[14:34] <newz2000> looking good thorwil
[14:34] <newz2000> that is the nicest ibex picture I've seen I think
[14:35] <newz2000> but of course we drop all reference to ibex at the end of this month
[14:35] <newz2000> I have to show that to Ken
[14:35] <thorwil> newz2000: thank you! it's actually just a rough trace, to show the idea
[14:36] <thorwil> newz2000: everything else in these variations is meant to be production ready, though
[14:37] <thorwil> newz2000: given the preference for the dots, i don't intend to finish the hands. too much work to do both and i'd rather keep that as an option for next time
[14:38] <newz2000> the dots are good
[15:48] <qense> hello
[15:49] <newz2000> hi qense
[15:50] <thorwil> hello qense
[15:51] <newz2000> I just got an email from some students in .nl who want to do some usability testing on ubuntu.com for a class.
[15:51] <newz2000> Sounds like a fun class
[15:51] <qense> yeah
[15:51] <qense> What uni?
[15:51] <qense> Delft?
[15:51] <qense> I know Delft has got dual boots everywhere.
[15:52] <qense> They told me it was much easier to use Linux for basic tasks, since gcc works much better and faster than Windows' equivalents.
[15:52] <newz2000> the email domain is xept.nl and they merely said, "Information Technology student from the Netherlands"
[15:52] <newz2000> I encouraged them to sign on here or the email list, maybe we'll hear from them
[15:52] <qense> I don't know a xept :)
[15:52] <qense> who knows
[15:55] <qense> firefox is really slow today :S
[16:01] <newz2000> qense: Erik_J is the student I mentioned
[16:02] <Erik_J> ahh qense is dutch isn't it?
[16:02] <qense> yes I am :)
[16:02] <Erik_J> nice :)
[16:03] <Erik_J> I want to test downloading iso's file, ordering cd,
[16:03] <Erik_J> "taking the tour" and some others things
[16:03] <qense> You already found shipit?
[16:03] <Erik_J> yes, today I found the launchpad blue prints
[16:04] <Erik_J> I guess that is what you mean
[16:04] <qense> no
[16:04] <qense> shipit is the free cd shipping service
[16:04] <newz2000> https://shipit.ubuntu.com
[16:04] <qense> I do have some 32bit CDs left though, I also could send you some myself.
[16:05] <Erik_J> newz2000, understand that you can't implement all the changes, but evaluating is enough :)
[16:05] <newz2000> I'd love to see the results of your testing
[16:05] <newz2000> Erik_J: how do you plan to choose testers?
[16:10] <Erik_J> ehmm we are going to test it with a laptop I can borrow from my work. Two other student and me are going to test average users. I read in the book "Don't make me think" that you should't spend to much time on searching for Target group users.
[16:10] <newz2000> Erik_J: are people in your area generally comfortable with English?
[16:11] <Erik_J> but we are going to test a lot of student from different eduacations ( technical and non-tech)
[16:11] <Erik_J> ehmm yes other people are better in English.
[16:12] <newz2000> ok, that was my concern
[16:12] <newz2000> if the people use test aren't comfortable with English it may provide less useful results
[16:12] <qense> People in the Netherlands get familiar with English very soon in their lives. :) It's everywhere here.
[16:12] <qense> Slogans, titles, company names, expressions, slang
[16:13] <Erik_J> and al lot of people understand English beter than they speak
[16:13] <qense> true
[16:13] <newz2000> gotcha, I can relate to that
[16:13] <Erik_J> I read English every day but I never speak it.
[16:14] <thorwil> heh, same here
[16:15] <Erik_J> I hope it become better when I chat a lot :) When my English is very bad, please say
[16:15] <newz2000> if we have trouble understanding you we'll let you know
[16:15] <newz2000> so far all good though
[16:16] <Erik_J> wednesday we are going to define alle the specific parts we want to test.
[16:16] <qense> Where are you going to publish the results?
[16:17] <Erik_J> ehm our plan was to make a report about it but we can also publish it on a wiki page
[16:17] <qense> I think a lot of people here would be very interested in the results.
[16:17] <newz2000> how about sharing it with the email list? I think that would be an appropriate location
[16:18] <Erik_J> no problem
[16:18] <newz2000> or on the wiki
[16:19] <Erik_J> wich other parts do you like to be tested?
[16:19] <Erik_J> we have ten weeks :)
[16:19] <newz2000> keep it short, I'd pick no more than two if I were you... assuming you have a life outside of your schoolwork. :-)
[16:19] <Erik_J> 1 or 2 days a week
[16:20] <newz2000> because you have to test, then propose a solution, retest, etc
[16:20] <qense> Are you going to focus on 'digibeten'(don't know the English word for this!) or experienced people?
[16:20] <Erik_J> both
[16:21] <Erik_J> digibeter = computer novice
[16:21] <Erik_J> i think
[16:22] <thorwil> qense: digibeten derived from analphabeten? that would be computer illiterate, then, to be pretty precise
[16:22] <Erik_J> yes from analphabeten
[16:22] <qense> that's the word I was looking for!
[16:23] <thorwil> if you say computer novice, most will expect they have at least a clue how to use a mouse ;)
[16:23] <Erik_J> mja I mean people who don't know what open-source, linux enz. is
[16:24] <newz2000> Erik_J: so if your tests include shipit you will be including another interesting challenge in your test process, signing onto launchpad, which may include creating a launchpad user account.
[16:24] <thorwil> well, that's pretty specific knowledge
[16:27] <Erik_J> that's also a thing I'd like to improve. I have tested ubuntu.com on 6 friends who have no idea what ubuntu is and it was very hard for them to figure out what all the words mean. I think we can make that better by adding acronym tags
[16:28] <Erik_J> A few months ago I already did a test just for fun.
[16:29] <newz2000> those results will be interesting to see
[16:29] <Erik_J> I was to lazy to translate the results in english
[16:29] <newz2000> that's ok
[16:29] <newz2000> I mean future results
[16:29] <newz2000> I believe you about the acronyms being confusing
[16:30] <qense> Did you also look at www.ubuntu-nl.org ?
[16:30] <qense> got to go, dinner time!
[16:30] <newz2000> see you later qense
[16:30] <Erik_J> have a nice dinner
[16:31] <Erik_J> The first sentence on the ubuntu site for example: Ubuntu is a community developed, Linux-based operating system that is perfect for laptops, desktops and servers.
[16:31] <Erik_J> a lot of people don't know what linux, laptops, desktop and servers are
[16:32] <Erik_J> they won't continue reading because they don't understand it
[16:32] <Erik_J> adding the <acronym> tags can solve that a little bit
[16:32] <newz2000> mpt: You might be interested in this conversation
[16:33] <newz2000> (mpt is the usability lead for ubuntu and formerly for launchpad's UI)
[16:33] <Erik_J> cool
[16:34] <newz2000> do you have a way to test this? (effectiveness of acronym tag)
[16:35] <Erik_J> I'm not a expirienced interaction designer. I have only read the books "Don't make me think" and "User centered website development" and I'm working at a dutch usability company as php/html/css dev (beside my study)
[16:36] <Erik_J> I will ask at my work about the effectuveness of acronym tags
[16:37] <newz2000> There has recently been discussion on this on the web
[16:37] <Erik_J> they pop up slow and I think that a lot of users don't know thet exists :P
[16:37] <newz2000> right
[16:37] <newz2000> better is to not use unrecognized jargon on pages like this
[16:38] <Erik_J> you mean don't user words like linux etc?
[16:38] <Erik_J> user = use
[16:38] <newz2000> yes
[16:38] <Erik_J> I agree
[16:41] <Erik_J> I found the document with the ubuntu.com test results
[16:41] <Erik_J> they are from jan. 09
[16:41] <Erik_J> ehh 08
[16:43] <Erik_J> wrong, it's 4-08. I have translated it to english. I will check the English and I can send it to you
[16:43] <newz2000> sure, send it to the list, introduce yourself and your plans
[16:43] <newz2000> you don't have to write a lot, just a brief intro is fine
[16:43] <newz2000> I'll bet you get a lot of encouragement
[16:45] <thorwil> i don't think acronym tags are the solution, whatever they are exactly. rather a complete rephrasing. this is of course not simple, if can't even assume people know what an operating system is
[16:47] <Erik_J> http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_acronym.asp
[16:48] <newz2000> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/06/removing_microformats_from_bbc.shtml
[16:48] <thorwil> ah, that. slow. user must move the pointer there. i bet inexperienced users will not do so
[16:48] <newz2000> I don't know if that's relevant or not, but skimmed the headline a few weeks ago
[16:50] <newz2000> thorwil: I showed ken your banners and he really likes the dots
[16:50] <thorwil> newz2000: cool :)
[16:52] <thorwil> newz2000: 30 to 15 for all 3 flavors are pretty much done. rest only need numbers scaled to fit. but i have to figure out a sane way to export all this
[16:52] <newz2000> are you doing it in inkscape?
[16:52] <thorwil> yes
[16:53] <newz2000> yes, this is a challenge
[16:53] <newz2000> I'd say wait just a little longer before you do all the work, someone inside Canonical named "Kat" had some comments
[16:54] <qense> back
[16:55] <newz2000> unfortunately she's not online now so I can't figure out when she'll speak up
[16:55] <thorwil> newz2000: speak out about what exactly?
[16:55] <Erik_J> I'm gone, I'll be back later this evening
[16:55] <newz2000> ok, nice meeting you Erik_J
[16:55] <newz2000> thorwil: I'm not sure, colors maybe
[16:56] <thorwil> newz2000: luckily i'm using tiled clones :)
[16:56] <newz2000> oh, cool
[16:56] <Erik_J> newz2000, nice to meet you too
[16:57] <thorwil> allthough i consider to try a background that brightens up with dropping numbers
[16:58] <newz2000> she said something about trying to get away from red, but I asked her what color in the palette to use instead and she never replied (and there just aren't any other dark colors available to us)
[20:50] <thorwil> newz2000: how exactly should the countdown images be named?
[21:06] <newz2000> thorwil: anything will work, as logn as it's consistent and uses a two-digit day as part of the file name.
[21:06] <newz2000> for example, for 804: 804countdown_07days.jpg
[21:09] <thorwil> newz2000: you can use plain rects in inkscape as "targets" for export. rectangles added in a row have rising id numbers. always plus 2
[21:09] <thorwil> so i write a script to replace these numeric ids with filenames inside the svg :)
[21:09] <newz2000> slick
[21:09] <newz2000> that's the beauty of svg
[21:10] <emunkki> thorwil, would that script be usable by the kubuntu folks as well? ;)
[21:10] <newz2000> I can't wait until browser support is consistent and at least on par with what ff3 can do
[21:10] <thorwil> emunkki: perhaps. it's really a bloody hack, though
[21:11] <thorwil> and not done since i don't even know how to zero-pad, yet
[21:11] <thorwil> which has to wait for tomorrow
[21:11] <emunkki> ok
[21:11] <emunkki> we're also working with the countdown banners
[21:12] <thorwil> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Website/IntrepidCountdownBanners ?
[21:13] <thorwil> oh, a copy
[21:13] <thorwil> gotta run, good night :)
[23:07] <Erik_AFK> Time for some sleep. Good night/day/morning/whatever