=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Sep 17:00: QA Team | 10 Sep 22:00: Platform Team | 11 Sep 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 11 Sep 13:00: Desktop Team | 11 Sep 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 12 Sep 15:00: Ubuntu Release === nellery_ is now known as nellery === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [12:00] Hi [12:00] amachu: hah perfect timing. [12:00] :-) [12:00] Good evening. [12:00] persia: elkbuntu: TheMuso: Hi [12:01] pong [12:01] lifeless: Hi [12:02] So we are four today [12:02] lifeless there? [12:02] belutz and zakame? [12:02] amireldor there? [12:03] svaksha? [12:03] Rafik: Hi [12:03] hello [12:03] hi all [12:03] Welcome everyone for toady's meeting - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania [12:04] persia: elkbuntu: TheMuso: We will start [12:04] Sounds good. [12:04] yup [12:05] Let wait for first two.. and call upon Rafik [12:05] Here I am, ready :) [12:05] Rafik: Hi. Please go ahead, describing yourself and your contributions to Ubuntu [12:05] ok [12:05] I'm 23 years old student from Tunisia [12:06] First, I apologize for my English level, it's not so good. I'm speaking Arabic (mother tongue) and French fluently. [12:06] I am applying here, even if my country Tunisia is in Africa because during the meeting of the EMEA regional board, i will be driving to the city where I study (summer holidays over :-) ) [12:06] The main part of my activity is within the Tunisia LoCo as I am one of the core members (member of the management committee) and one of the most active. I am currently on developing the website (demo : ubuntu-tn.homelinux.org) [12:06] I have years of experience with building virtual Tunisian communities (forums, chat, blog aggregator,..) and I'm using that to build the Ubuntu one around a website. [12:07] I am also on IRC (op on my LoCo channels), I have also written (or contributed in writing) several articles about ubuntu in the national /international press and a little on some websites. (The most importants are in my wiki page, the others are or too short or I wasn't the only author) [12:07] I also always try to talk about ubuntu in web forums I participate in, some of my loco members joined the team this way. [12:07] I am involved in the ubuntu-arabic project (in forums, forum.ubuntu-arabic.org, where I'm finishing style, it will be launched once we have assembled a management team) [12:07] I try to follow closely the evolution of the ubuntu community and understand its spirit .. this allows me to ensure that the Tunisian LoCo is at the best level (while trying to keep it close to the international community..) [12:08] Otherwise, I'm not in informatics (student in medical biotechnologies, to continue in gene engineering later). That's a good quality as I'm showing, through my activity, that ubuntu is not just for the professionals, it's for everyone (in my LoCo, there is a majority of IT). [12:08] For example, I always ask to do not only focus on informatics universities for install fests but on others disciplines universities too.. [12:09] I also contribute when I can, via launchpad in responses and translation [12:09] if you have any question, I will be happy to answer :) [12:10] Rafik: How large is the Tunisian team? [12:11] it's about 70 members in LP, 140 in mailing list and a little more than 20 really active members [12:12] Rafik: Is Tunisia bi-lingual state? french and arabic? [12:13] no, officially it's only arabic. but we always use french even in education due to colonialism ^^ [12:13] Rafik, you spoke to the government about getting support for the LoCo? how'd that go? [12:14] actually they can't do anything for us as we don't have a legal entity so they can deal with us [12:14] they encourage us to create it [12:14] end promise to help with that [12:15] so it was a positive outcome? [12:15] actually, the only activity the governement is involved in is the organisation of SFD 2008 [12:15] sometimes just voicing support is a huge help [12:15] yes [12:16] elkbuntu, yes, they promise a lot of good things, such as providing a hosting for a mirror server [12:16] and help us in organizing events [12:16] Rafik, that's wonderful [12:16] by voicing and also with funds [12:16] Rafik: are there gov't efforts towards foss? usually that is the case for them the support groups with legal status [12:16] (hi btw) [12:17] * elkbuntu hugs jsgotangco [12:17] hi jsgotangco :) [12:17] jsgotangco, yes we have a secretary of state called : secretary of state for Internet, Informatics and Free Software [12:17] soren, there is activities [12:18] especially since ballmer visit to tunisia last year [12:18] Rafik, that's an awesome title [12:18] s/soren/so [12:19] Rafik: on translations, you do both arabic & french [12:19] ? [12:20] I can do both yes [12:20] are you doing both, I intended to ask :-) [12:21] I did [12:21] appear you write to magazines in french, and maitain forum in arabic [12:21] but it's not enough visible on LP actually, unfortunately. I hope I'll have more time to contribute more in arabic [12:22] I feel more confrtable with writing in french but I have no matter with arabic too [12:22] Personally, i'm convinced by your dedication and the wide variety of contributions. +1 [12:22] thank you elkbuntu [12:23] Rafik: Although this is perhaps an awkward timezone for some, did you happen to bring anyone to cheer for you? [12:23] I asked huats and Syntux to come [12:23] Rafik: I am trying to identify you on the newspaper ;-) [12:23] they don't seems to be online [12:24] amachu, by top, from the right, I'm the third :) [12:24] Well, +1 from me: great LoCo org work, excellent advocacy, clear evidence of lots of user support, and good future plans. [12:24] I've written that article after the LoCo approval [12:25] Rafik: +1 from me also, great work, and I hope you keep it up! [12:25] Thank you, i'll be continuing with more i hope [12:25] we hope too ;) [12:25] Yes. Got you.. doing great job +1 [12:26] Thanks [12:26] TheMuso: there? === ogra_ is now known as ogra [12:26] amachu: Yes. [12:26] amachu: I gave my vote. [12:27] i think we have all voted [12:27] I noticed it noted... [12:28] thats great! Welcome Rafiq and all the best for Team Tunisia [12:28] Thank you very much [12:28] You are doing a really great job for the ubuntu community. so Thank you again [12:29] Rafik: We all :-) [12:29] amireldor an svaksha appear not to be here [12:29] Que vive Ubuntu, يحيا اوبونتو :) [12:30] any other thing need to be discussed? [12:30] persia: elkbuntu: TheMuso ? [12:30] nothing i can think of [12:30] There was the issue about timing. Are we all happy with the time? [12:30] any thoughts raised on time zone issues raised in mailing list? [12:30] Do we think it's extra difficult for those too far east or west? [12:31] persia: It is almost good-bye time here in India or just before that [12:32] so people will be winding up offices and be back home... [12:32] I can move the meeting up to 3 hours earlier, or two hours later if need be. [12:32] i.e I can do those times [12:32] amachu: Well, depends where you work :) Also, it's 10pm in New Zealand, and 11:30 in some parts of New Zealand once Summer comes. [12:33] persia: I agree. That to if people are employed at offices with fixed routines.. [12:33] persia, i think we can worry about daylight savings when it comes to that [12:34] * persia hopes amachu will be supportive of the idea of ignoring daylight savings time [12:34] 3 hours earlier will mean i'll miss it more often, as i sometimes dont get on my train home until that time [12:34] elkbuntu: Yeah was just stating what I can do in terms of times, should we wish to change. [12:34] TheMuso, understood. i was doing the same ;) [12:36] hope we all do not have problem with the current time [12:36] i dont [12:36] I'm rather flexible, excepting 14:00 UTC, as I have a standing meeting then. That said, I'm happy with the idea of having a fixed time somewhere between EMEA and Americas, and this time works well for me. [12:37] it's pretty much perfect for me, since i'm home and fed. [12:37] elkbuntu: 14.00 UTC [12:37] ? [12:38] if we get to the point that alot of people from india are getting banked up, we can always deviate for a week to clear the queue [12:38] amachu, if that's what time this meeting starts, sure. [12:38] TheMuso: how about you for 14.00 ? [12:39] * TheMuso calculates. [12:39] persia: i can't get ' idea of ignoring daylight savings time' [12:39] :-( [12:39] amachu: Do you mean future meetings, or when daylight savings changes [12:39] 14:00 is specifically bad for me, but might be acceptable sometimes if it doesn't happen to be one of the weeks I've simultaneous parallel 14:00 UTC meetings. [12:40] TheMuso: It's that there is no "daylight savings time" for amachu and I. [12:40] persia: Right. [12:40] Well 14:00UTC is putting it at midnight and beyond for me. I would rather not if possible. [12:40] persia: :-) [12:41] fine then, we shall continue with 11.00 UTC, and also include zakame and belutz in this [12:41] uh yeah. unless someone wants to fund the 'reanimate luke and melissa because they died of lack of sleep' fund ;) [12:42] lol [12:42] well, i get up at 6:30 so, 'after midnight' is not really a healthy option [12:42] 14UTC is pretty late for those in south east asia/australia/nz [12:42] Right. Let's stick with the current time, and expect people in India to either be able to make it, or to be able to stay up until the EMEA meeting (or get up early enough for the Americas meeting), with possible future dicsussion if there is a large backlog. [12:45] persia: thats fine then [12:45] we shall wind up for the day [12:45] shall we? [12:46] or do we think of day change than time? [12:46] i think this should involve the people who are not here more than it should involve those who are -- so lets take it to the ML [12:47] Agreed. [12:47] yes [12:47] fine then. We will wind up. [12:47] Thanks for participating [12:48] Our next meeting on 23 Sep 08, 11.00 AM UTC [12:48] bye [12:48] thanks for chairing yet again, and not disconnecting! (/me hits the wooden table repeatedly) [12:48] elkbuntu: :-) [12:49] hahaha === greeneggsnospam is now known as jsgotangco [13:57] sorry guys [15:02] hi [15:03] #startmeeting [15:03] Meeting started at 09:03. The chair is mdz. [15:03] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [15:04] the fridge calendar doesn't seem to be updated, though I saw some email which indicates that's being sorted [15:04] this is the bi-weekly technical board meeting [15:04] Scott is ill today and won't be able to attend [15:04] nothing on the agenda [15:05] anything from the floor? [15:05] open issues I'm aware of: cdrtools, converting interim ubuntu-core-dev members to per-package upload rights, board membership/nominations [15:05] on cdrtools [15:05] [TOPIC] cdrtools [15:05] New Topic: cdrtools [15:06] we've engaged with Sun legal, and the SFLC, and will speak in detail to them over the next two weeks [15:06] i don't know how long it will take to get a firm legal opinion [15:06] joerg has been open to the engagement, so hopefully we get a clear statement from SFLC on whether we can ship it as joerg describes, or not [15:07] and if not, hopefully joerg is open to the guidance they provide, to the extent he can resolve issues of licensing with his own contributions [15:07] and also, hopefully, Sun will adopt the same approach with OpenSolaris [15:07] nothing further from me on that front this week [15:07] ok [15:07] [TOPIC] migration from interim core-dev to ACLs [15:07] New Topic: migration from interim core-dev to ACLs [15:08] I've sent out email to the two ubuntu-core-devs who are in this transitional state [15:08] I've heard back from one, who has some questions and concerns which I'll work on [15:08] the other I haven't heard back from and need to ping again [15:09] (and have just done, now that I remembered) [15:09] [TOPIC] board membership/nominations [15:09] New Topic: board membership/nominations [15:09] I'm interested in those questions and concerns, but perhaps offline [15:09] we shortlisted 4 candidates for the TB [15:10] i wrote to each of them asking if they were willing to stand, and also if they were willing to face a competitive selection process with votes from ubuntu developers selecting 2 out of 4 candidates [15:10] have heard back from 3 === mvo__ is now known as mvo [15:11] all willing to serve on the TB (yay!) and all open to a competitive vote (yay!), but one who has asked for his candidacy to be deferred till he can make some space for it [15:11] so, we have at least 2 willing and able shortlisted candidates [15:12] am waiting for a final word, then we can decide whether we want to hold an election or confirmation votes [15:12] i'd prefer to have a 2-out-of-4 election than a 2-out-of-3 election, so am still open to more shortlist candidates [15:12] nothing further from me [15:13] [TOPIC] AOB [15:13] New Topic: AOB [15:13] anything else? [15:13] - [15:13] thanks, all [15:13] #endmeeting [15:13] Meeting finished at 09:13. [15:13] cheers all === ember_ is now known as ember [15:56] * nxvl waves [15:56] o/ [15:57] hey all [15:58] * jdstrand waves [15:59] howdy [16:00] o/ [16:00] \o [16:02] hi folks ! [16:02] let's get this started [16:02] #startmeeting [16:02] Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is mathiaz. [16:02] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [16:02] * mathiaz woahhh [16:03] Wow. [16:03] Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting [16:03] * nijaba cheers at mootbot's return [16:03] Last week meeting minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080902 [16:03] [TOPIC] Ubuntu VM builder [16:04] New Topic: Ubuntu VM builder [16:04] That would be me. [16:04] soren: status ? [16:04] As you may have noticed, I never posted my blog entry about it. [16:04] That's because of a parted bug that would bite a *lot* of users of it, so I wanted to wait until I could get that fixed. [16:05] soren: ok [16:05] The alpha freeze delayed that a bit, but I'll be uploading a fix today, and when that's built, I'll submit my blog post. [16:05] nijaba: still on track to write the tutorial ? [16:05] mathiaz: some progress [16:05] I've been spending some time since last meeting ironing out some of the regressions from the old ubuntu-vm-builder, and it's going quite well, I think. [16:05] mathiaz: can been monitored at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/JeOSVMBuilder [16:06] nijaba: is that based on the JeOS tutorial you wrote last year ? [16:06] mathiaz: it is a rewrite to show how to use vmbuilder instead [16:06] nijaba: great [16:07] sommer: are you waiting for soren's post to update the Ubuntu Doc guide ? [16:07] mathiaz: not really, just didn't have as much time last week [16:07] [ACTION] soren to write a blog post about vm-builder once it's available in the archive [16:07] ACTION received: soren to write a blog post about vm-builder once it's available in the archive [16:07] mathiaz: should get that updated this week, or once the new package is in the repos [16:08] [ACTION] nijaba to write a tutorial on vm-builder - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/JeOSVMBuilder [16:08] ACTION received: nijaba to write a tutorial on vm-builder - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/JeOSVMBuilder [16:08] Oh, the vm-builder is in the archive. [16:08] sommer: great [16:08] It's the parted fix that needs to be uploaded. [16:08] [ACTION] sommer to update the virtualization section of the server guide with references to the new ubuntu-vm-builder [16:08] ACTION received: sommer to update the virtualization section of the server guide with references to the new ubuntu-vm-builder [16:08] soren: yep, sorry I just wasn't sure last week what package to use [16:09] sommer: Ah, yes. I remember something about that. It's all sorted now, right? [16:09] The new package is called vm-builder [16:09] soren: should be good to go [16:09] and the source package name is actually python-vm-builder [16:10] soren: is there anything else to report wrt to vm-builder ? [16:12] Nope. [16:12] ok. Let's move on [16:12] [TOPIC] Review ServerGuide for Intrepid [16:12] Well, lots of cool details, but nothing I want to spend meeting time on. [16:12] New Topic: Review ServerGuide for Intrepid [16:12] * soren shuts up now [16:12] soren: sure - we'll get all the juicy details in your blog post [16:13] sommer: did you get reviews ? [16:13] I haven't had time to review the openldap guide. [16:13] jdstrand reviewd the ufw section, other than that nope [16:13] [ACTION] mathiaz to review the ldap section of the server guide [16:13] ACTION received: mathiaz to review the ldap section of the server guide [16:13] it looked great. thanks sommer! [16:13] kirkland: still planning to review the RAID section ? [16:13] mathiaz: yes, definitely [16:13] [ACTION] kirkland to review the RAID section of the server guide [16:13] ACTION received: kirkland to review the RAID section of the server guide [16:14] sommer: when is the deadline ? [16:14] sommer: IIRC there is a string freeze at some point [16:14] mathiaz: october 2nd [16:14] about 3 weeks [16:14] ok - this week's freeze is UI freeze [16:15] sommer: anything else to add to the Server Guide ? [16:15] mathiaz: are we affected by UI freeze? [16:15] nope, I think that's all the news [16:16] sommer: great - thanks for all the work [16:16] :) [16:16] sommer: yeah, thanks a lot [16:16] We're mainly looking for reviewers now [16:16] nxvl: yes - but to a lesser extend than the desktop team [16:16] oh ok [16:17] nxvl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserInterfaceFreeze [16:17] nxvl: ^^ that's the definition of UIFreeze [16:17] nxvl: it's mainly oriented towards desktop [16:18] nxvl: but we could probably adapt it to server applications. [16:18] yeah, that's what i thougt, just making sure [16:18] :D [16:18] nxvl: now is a good time to review the server guide and make sure that command line are correct [16:18] nxvl: they should not change until release, unless we ask for it as we're in UIFreeze [16:19] That's all from last week minutes [16:19] is there anything else to add ? [16:19] to the las week minutes? [16:20] nxvl: yes [16:20] then no [16:20] :D [16:21] ok - let's move on then [16:21] Review progress made on the specification listed on the Roadmap [16:21] the Roadmap: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap [16:22] [TOPIC] Boot Support for Degraded RAID [16:22] New Topic: Boot Support for Degraded RAID [16:22] kirkland: anything new there ? [16:22] mathiaz: funny you should ask :-) [16:22] mathiaz: i just installed a new VM with the ubuntu-server ISO that was just built a few minutes ago [16:22] mathiaz: i'm testing a minor fix to grub-installer [16:23] mathiaz: i think this should be code-complete at this point [16:23] mathiaz: and fairly thoroughly tested [16:23] mathiaz: the next thing to test would be crazy combinations and layers [16:23] mathiaz: of lvm + crypt + raid [16:23] kirkland: ok - sounds like testing is the next step for this topic. [16:23] mathiaz: jumble the order of those, and retest [16:24] mathiaz: yeah, i'm going to write another blog entry calling for testing [16:24] kirkland: did you blog about it ? [16:24] mathiaz: unfortunately, this subject requires very thick skin [16:24] mathiaz: lots of people are very negatively vocal about it [16:24] kirkland: right - the bug is no longer useful [16:24] mathiaz: rarely much technical topics to argue... just griping mostly [16:24] mathiaz: anyway, i'll blog again [16:25] kirkland: I think we should blog about it and ask for testing [16:25] mathiaz: there's one more little thing that i think would be worth asking [16:25] kirkland: also document it in the release notes for the next alpha and bet [16:25] kirkland: beta [16:25] mathiaz: there should be a debconf question posted in the installer, asking for what behavior you want, BOOT_DEGRADED=true|false [16:25] mathiaz: i will do that... there was a known issue in Alpha5, so i didn't add it to the release notes [16:25] kirkland: have you discussed that with the installer team ? [16:26] mathiaz: yes [16:26] mathiaz: i owe cjwatson that code [16:26] mathiaz: he suggested adding it fairly close to (or even in) partman [16:26] kirkland: does it require a FF exception ? [16:26] mathiaz: the "easy" solution is just to make that debconf question "high" in the mdadm package [16:27] mathiaz: but that would make that question prompt sometime *much* later, after the partitioning has been accomplished [16:27] mathiaz: probably would require an FFe... I'll try to do it today [16:27] mathiaz: it's not much code [16:27] kirkland: right - seems like partman is the best place to ask for it. [16:27] mathiaz: right, i have a local partman-md branch [16:27] mathiaz: i've done the code, haven't tested it [16:27] [ACTION] kirkland to write another blog post asking for raid testing [16:27] ACTION received: kirkland to write another blog post asking for raid testing [16:28] sounds good [16:28] [ACTION] kirkland to add a question to the installer about the default behavior [16:28] ACTION received: kirkland to add a question to the installer about the default behavior [16:28] anything else on RAID ? [16:28] mathiaz: fyi, my tests of the current server iso just succeeded!!!! [16:29] mathiaz: blog post can happen immediately [16:29] mathiaz: I don't think so [16:29] kirkland: awesome. Thanks for the work. [16:29] [TOPIC] UFW Package Integration [16:29] New Topic: UFW Package Integration [16:29] mathiaz: you bet :-) [16:29] jdstrand: ^^ ? [16:29] jdstrand: I ran into some issue when doing alpha5 testing [16:30] bug? [16:30] * mathiaz looking for the bug [16:30] it's likely one I am working on _right now_ [16:30] jdstrand: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/265097 [16:30] Launchpad bug 265097 in debian-installer "openssh-server fails to install when preseeded with pkgsel/include" [Undecided,New] [16:31] mathiaz: that's a dup of one I have fixed and will be uploading today [16:31] jdstrand: ok [16:32] jdstrand: anything else ? [16:32] nope, just bug fixing. I may be able to get case-insensitivity matching for app rules, but might not [16:32] (thanks to didrocks) [16:33] jdstrand: awesome. [16:33] [TOPIC] Ubuntu Manpage Repository [16:33] New Topic: Ubuntu Manpage Repository [16:33] kirkland: ^^ ? [16:33] mathiaz: \o/ [16:34] mathiaz: big thanks to lamont jones for rolling it out to production, as well as to kees, jdstrand, and cjwatson for reviewing the code along the way [16:34] mathiaz: i've gotten an enormous amount of positive feedback, as well as constructive criticism [16:34] jdstrand: you're welcome (again) :) [16:34] mathiaz: i'm encouraging people to file bugs against the Launchpad project [16:34] mathiaz: I'm fixing those as I can (this is a night/weekends/after-hours project) [16:35] mathiaz: i'm going to ask lamont to roll out a batch of updates later this week [16:35] mathiaz: i could use help, if anyone else is interested :-) [16:35] kirkland: IIRC you've also blogged about it, right ? [16:35] kirkland: what kind of help ? [16:35] kirkland: what language did you use? [16:35] mathiaz: yes, and it got picked up by Digg, so the traffic has been overwhelming [16:36] mathiaz: 1) man should be patched to optionally fall back and pull missing manpages from the web archive (that will need to be C code) [16:36] nijaba: HTML, CSS, Javascript, Shell, Perl, and Python :-) [16:36] kirkland: 618 diggs now [16:36] kirkland: are these tasks recorded somewhere ? in LP bugs ? or a wiki page ? [16:37] mathiaz: 2) the search.py search engine could be improved... right now, exact title matches only [16:37] mathiaz: i have a wiki page, i will add to-do tasks to it [16:37] kirkland: I agree with Bryce comment on the ML: at first glance, I thought it was empty. [16:37] Koon: yes, i'm going to make a nice front page [16:37] Koon: lesson learned, i should have done that ahead of time [16:37] otherwise it rocks ! [16:38] also, the doc team would like a reverse proxy, serving all of this via help.ubuntu.com/manuals [16:38] there have been some negative criticism about hosting at manpages.ubuntu.com [16:38] kirkland: all of this seems great [16:39] mathiaz: thanks [16:39] mathiaz: it's been on my little home server so long, and i couldn't really tell anyone about it there === asac_ is now known as asac [16:39] mathiaz: now that it's production hosted, we can get feedback and improve it [16:39] kirkland: excellent. [16:39] mathiaz: i have a bit to say about Encrypted Private [16:39] let's move on. [16:39] mathiaz: if there's a spot for it here [16:40] [TOPIC] Encrypted ~/Private Directory in Each User's Home [16:40] New Topic: Encrypted ~/Private Directory in Each User's Home [16:40] mathiaz: cjwatson added a debconf question to the alternate installer [16:40] mathiaz: i know you raised a question about the appropriateness on the Server CD [16:40] mathiaz: we can discuss that here, or elsewhere, at your discretion [16:40] kirkland: we can discuss that later [16:40] kirkland: did you already thought about how the hardy -> intrepid upgrade will be on that topic? [16:40] mathiaz: okay [16:41] nxvl: yeah, so i wrote some code that would attempt to migrate data from a non-encrypted directory to an encrypted one [16:41] nxvl: as well as back [16:41] nxvl: it used rsync [16:41] nxvl: however, i found many corner cases where things could go wrong, and there could be data lost [16:41] nxvl: we've just started to test upgrades [16:42] nxvl: ie, if data were being written to the source, unecrypted directory while doing the encryption migration [16:42] nxvl: so instead, i added a check to ecryptfs-setup-private [16:42] nxvl: what do you mean by upgrade testing ? [16:43] nxvl: that requires that ~/.Private and ~/Private be empty in order to proceed [16:43] nxvl: it'll tell the user that they should move this data out of the way, or do their own migration after the fact [16:44]