[00:00] <apachelogger> heya mhb
[00:00] <NCommander> Riddell, I thought I uploaded kdenetwork
[00:00] <NCommander> Oh, it rejected
[00:01] <NCommander> since distribution == hardy-backports
[00:01] <NCommander> er, hardy-proposed
[00:01] <Riddell> there's a 4:3.5.10-0ubuntu1~hardy2
[00:01] <NCommander> Strange
[00:01] <NCommander> Oh
[00:01] <NCommander> Damn it
[00:01]  * NCommander hits head
[00:01] <NCommander> I did the fix on both 9 and 10
[00:01] <NCommander> The 10 superseeded the 9 before the former built due to the PPA backlog last night
[00:02] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: update-notifer-kde is import-erroring again
[00:03] <mhb> hey apachelogger
[00:03] <NCommander> Riddell, so yeah, whoops
[00:06] <seele> mhb: hi!
[00:07] <mhb> hi seele, quite some corrections on the mailing list :o)
[00:08] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: n'yarg
[00:09] <Riddell> apachelogger: if you want to change the bugs thing, go ahead, or let me know what I have to do
[00:09] <apachelogger> Riddell: please make me admin for kubuntu-team
[00:10] <apachelogger> I am creating kubuntu-bugs and replace kubuntu-team as bug team
[00:10] <Riddell> apachelogger: done
[00:11] <apachelogger> thanks
[00:12] <NCommander> Riddell & apachelogger kdelibs is building in my PPA
[00:13] <NCommander> Correction
[00:13] <NCommander> kdelibs FTBFS in my PPA
[00:13] <Riddell> :(
[00:13] <NCommander> wow
[00:13] <NCommander> Something went really really wrong ...
[00:13] <NCommander> O_o;
[00:13] <NCommander> Anyway, brb
[00:13] <NCommander> scratch the brb
[00:15] <seele> mhb: no one could agree when the meeting was
[00:15] <seele> last time i'm going to be organized
[00:16] <NCommander> Riddell, how much work does a new port of Ubuntu involve on the Canonical side of things?
[00:17] <Riddell> NCommander: a new arch?  the machines need put into the data centre by the sysadmins and then it's up to the arch maintainer to make it work
[00:17] <Riddell> which I imagine involves lots of fiddy bootstrapping
[00:17] <NCommander> Riddell, I thought some ports were, at least initally, hosted outside the data center (i.e. hppa)
[00:18] <Riddell> not sure on that one, I thought it was in the data centre
[00:18] <Riddell> it'll need hooked up to launchpad certainly
[00:18] <NCommander> Riddell, mostly because I want to do a mips port, and a ppc64 port
[00:18] <NCommander> (well, armel too, but someone else already with doing it)
[00:18] <NCommander> The MIPS port can be bootstrapped off the Debian port rather easily
[00:19] <Riddell> NCommander: do you have such machines?
[00:19] <NCommander> MIPS yes, ppc64, soonish
[00:19] <NCommander> (also armel, yes)
[00:19] <apachelogger> https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-bugs
[00:19] <apachelogger> weak
[00:19] <NCommander> My MIPS box is too slow to be a full buildd
[00:20] <NCommander> Riddell, what I was hoping to do is provide enough packages that someone could debootstrap mips in the data center (if that's what was required), and then set of the LP foo
[00:23] <NCommander> *setup
[00:23]  * NCommander wants Ubuntu available on the full range of hardware Debian works and has ports on
[00:23] <apachelogger> Oo
[00:23] <NCommander> And as an answer to your next question
[00:23] <apachelogger> that is one big mission
[00:23] <NCommander> I've used all Debian ports expect s390, and alpha
[00:24] <NCommander> (that includes hurd-i386, and kfreebsd-*)
[00:24]  * apachelogger would like to have that many machines :P
[00:24] <NCommander> apachelogger, I usually just rip apart embedded hardware to run the port
[00:24] <apachelogger> ic
[00:25] <NCommander> My MIPS box is a canobized router, my ARM was a NAS
[00:25] <NCommander> THe PowerPC was my mac
[00:25] <neversfelde> is armel for nokias tablet devices?
[00:25] <NCommander> m68k was an emulator
[00:25] <NCommander> neversfelde, yes
[00:25] <NCommander> (its armel now)
[00:25] <NCommander> hurd-i386, and kfreebsd-* was real hardware
[00:26] <neversfelde> NCommander: I installed KDE3 on my n800, was fun, but nothing more
[00:26] <NCommander> neversfelde, what are the specs of the Nokia tablets?
[00:26] <NCommander> My ARM box is 266Mhz/32MB RAM
[00:26] <NCommander> If I just had more ram, we'd have Ubuntu armel
[00:27] <NCommander> wow, $150
[00:27] <NCommander> We might just have a winner, at 252/64MB
[00:28] <NCommander> I want to see netbook remix on an arm box
[00:28] <neversfelde> uh, I do not know. It was a present and is my only GTK device. Shows some rss feeds and weather right of my desk :D
[00:28]  * NCommander thinks Riddell ran away in porting fear
[00:30] <Riddell> NCommander: well, I'm about to run off to bed.  I don't know anything about porting though I'm afraid, I'd expect lamont would be a good person to talk to
[00:30] <NCommander> Riddell, who can upload kdelibs for me then ;-)
[00:31] <Riddell> NCommander: ScottK?  or me in the morning
[00:31] <NCommander> Ok, cool. I'm going to likely buy this tablet
[00:31] <NCommander> It gives me something to port Ubuntu too ...
[00:31] <NCommander> *to
[00:34] <apachelogger> neversfelde: patch it :P
[00:34]  * NCommander turns on the ScottK light
[00:35] <neversfelde> NCommander: n800 is old. All KDE people do have n810 cause nokia gave it away for free at akademy. Probably you shoul ask nokia for a device :D
[00:35] <neversfelde> apachelogger: weather applet is broken for several weeks now, I think I should do ;)
[00:36] <apachelogger> hm
[00:36] <apachelogger> actually
[00:36] <NCommander> d'oh
[00:36]  * apachelogger needs to get an n810
[00:36] <NCommander> Well, if someone will give me SSH access to their device for a few hours ;-)?
[00:36] <apachelogger> lol
[00:37] <NCommander> how much do n810's run?
[00:37] <NCommander> $438.00
[00:37] <NCommander> OW
[00:37] <NCommander> MY WALLET
[00:38] <NCommander> I could use my existing arm hardware to bootstrap
[00:39] <NCommander> apachelogger, can you test to make sure my patch builds on i386?
[00:39] <NCommander> (I'm rebuilding it in pbuilder)
[00:39] <apachelogger> yes
[00:39] <neversfelde> there is a project which aims to run qtopia on nokia tablets
[00:40] <apachelogger> NCommander: you could do some KDE programming, get on planet kde, make everyone think you are uber important and then ask nokia for a n810 ;)
[00:40] <NCommander> THat means I need to learn Qt
[00:41] <apachelogger> learning Qt is not exactly difficult
[00:41] <NCommander> They said that about COBOL
[00:41] <apachelogger> c++ is the awful about it :P
[00:41] <apachelogger> ♥ rubyqt
[00:41] <NCommander> apachelogger, http://pastebin.ca/1198675
[00:41] <NCommander> apachelogger, my patchs tend to be amazingly small ;-)
[00:42] <apachelogger> lol
[00:43] <NCommander> apachelogger, OTOH http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17471845/kdenetwork.debdiff
[00:43]  * NCommander watchs your brain melt
[00:43] <apachelogger> I hate patches :P
[00:43] <NCommander> :-)
[00:52] <neversfelde> I hate this hp-systray applet
[00:59] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: omg, kubuntu-team has oxygen icon
[00:59] <apachelogger> ♥ tango
[00:59] <JontheEchidna> I lol'd
[01:00] <apachelogger> again?!
[01:00] <JontheEchidna> lol
[01:00] <JontheEchidna> howsabout "I rofl'd"?
[01:02] <apachelogger> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingKubuntu
[01:02] <apachelogger> ugly
[01:02] <apachelogger> no
[01:02] <apachelogger> UGLY!
[01:04] <JontheEchidna> aside from having HelpingKubuntu at the top twice it doesn't look too bad...
[01:07] <apachelogger> Oo
[01:07] <apachelogger> seriously
[01:07] <apachelogger> I wouldn't want to read that
[01:07] <seele> neversfelde: afaik the n800 and n810 are nearly identical hardware except for the gps
[01:08] <neversfelde> seele: I think n810 has a real keyboard too
[01:08] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: needs more screenie?
[01:09] <apachelogger> more of everything
[01:09] <JontheEchidna> well, I made a few edits
[01:11] <JontheEchidna> lol: "Here are some tools that are developed by Kubuntu devs: "
[01:11] <JontheEchidna> then, nothing
[01:12] <apachelogger> yah
[01:12] <apachelogger> more of everything
[01:14] <apachelogger> "We are a community project and always need help."
[01:15] <apachelogger> that sounds "My name is Bob, I am 38 and I am looking for a woman...."
[01:16] <JontheEchidna> We are the blue-headed stepchild of Ubuntu and always need halp
[01:19] <yuriy> ooh JontheEchidna did you get bug privs?
[01:19] <JontheEchidna> yuriy: ya
[01:19] <yuriy> nice
[01:19] <yuriy> btw, have you had a chance to do anything else with userconfig?
[01:19] <JontheEchidna> much to apachelogger's inbox's dismay
[01:19] <yuriy> sorry, I've been too busy to touch any kubuntu stuff lately
[01:20] <JontheEchidna> uh, basically all the dialogs for user management use ui files
[01:20] <JontheEchidna> I did a bit of work on the add/modify dialog for groups the other day
[01:28] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot101.png
[01:28] <JontheEchidna> my eyes! naked GTK!
[01:28] <JontheEchidna> ...but nice blue icon
[01:28] <JontheEchidna> makes up for raleigh
[01:31] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: didn't we use that bug for experimental as well?
[01:31] <JontheEchidna> huh?
[01:31] <JontheEchidna> oh, no
[01:31] <apachelogger> indeed
[01:32] <JontheEchidna> we used the red security shield
[01:32] <apachelogger> https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-team
[01:36] <JontheEchidna> Heh, "Almost kubuntu bugs"
[01:37] <JontheEchidna> did you know there's a guy with the username kubuntu-bugs?
[01:38] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: yes
[01:38] <apachelogger> that's why the team is only almost
[01:39] <JontheEchidna> nice...
[01:39] <neversfelde> klicking on akregators tray icon does not open kontact. Do you know if this is a known bug?
[01:39] <apachelogger> I hope to find a lp admin to get that dood to use another name
[01:39] <apachelogger> otherwise we will have to go with kubuntu-bugs-team
[01:39] <neversfelde> + bug
[01:39] <apachelogger> neversfelde: what does it open?
[01:39] <neversfelde> apachelogger: nothing
[01:39] <apachelogger> that is very strange
[01:40] <apachelogger> are you sure the window is not just on some other desktop?
[01:40] <JontheEchidna> kubuntu-bugteam?
[01:40] <JontheEchidna> kubuntu-bugsquad?
[01:40] <NCommander> apachelogger, did you build my kdelibs patch?
[01:40] <neversfelde> it works standalone
[01:41] <apachelogger> pbuilder-time-stamp: 1221006719
[01:41] <apachelogger> NCommander: build without problems
[01:41] <apachelogger> neversfelde: I recommend reporting at bugs.kde.org
[01:41] <NCommander> apachelogger, you got a fast box
[01:41] <apachelogger> neversfelde: our kdepim reports are a gigantic mess
[01:41] <neversfelde> apachelogger: will do
[01:41] <apachelogger> NCommander: would be faster if I could have used cluster compiling ;-)
[01:42] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: kdebase is twice as big
[01:42] <JontheEchidna> and even that's been cut back considerably from the start of this cycle
[01:42] <apachelogger> not as much duplicated stuff though
[01:42] <apachelogger> most reports in kdepim go like - kmail looses X or imap is broken because of Y
[01:44] <neversfelde> ohh, bugs.kde.org is hard work :(
[01:44] <apachelogger> Oo
[01:44] <apachelogger> you have no idea what triaging with bugzilla is like
[01:44]  * apachelogger shudders
[01:44] <neversfelde> hehe
[01:44] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: can you subscribe almost bugs to kdebase-workspace?
[01:45] <JontheEchidna> how does one subscribe a team to a package?
[01:46] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-workspace
[01:46] <apachelogger> top right box
[01:46] <apachelogger> subscribe to bug mail
[01:47] <JontheEchidna> I can only subscribe myself
[01:47] <apachelogger> hm
[01:48] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: jr needs to make you an admin
[01:48]  * apachelogger can't
[01:48] <JontheEchidna> so are bugs really supposed to be assigned to the team?
[01:48]  * JontheEchidna doesn't see the point
[01:49] <apachelogger> no
[01:49] <apachelogger> only subscribed
[01:49] <apachelogger> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-bugs
[01:49] <apachelogger> signing up to that list should get one all the kubuntu related bugs right away
[01:50] <apachelogger> so we need to make sure almost bugs is subscribed to at least all core packages
[01:51] <NCommander> ScottK, poke?
[01:51] <JontheEchidna> going through the deps of kubuntu-desktop should do the trick
[01:53] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bug 264643
[01:53] <apachelogger> what do you think about that fix?
[01:55] <JontheEchidna> uh
[01:55] <JontheEchidna> shouldn't kmldonkey get fixed, instead of this workaround?
[01:56] <apachelogger> ♥ JontheEchidna
[01:59] <neversfelde> mhh
[01:59] <neversfelde> kmldonkey is fully unusable
[01:59] <JontheEchidna> If you were to fix it, you'd want to patch the source to generate the icons properly
[02:00] <neversfelde> you can search, but there is no download overview page
[02:01] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: do you want to provide a better fix or should I command him to give it a try?
[02:01] <apachelogger> neversfelde: no one really uses that thing anyway :P
[02:01] <neversfelde> apachelogger: never
[02:01]  * JontheEchidna doesn't want to touch it :P
[02:01] <apachelogger> meh
[02:03] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot102.png
[02:03] <neversfelde> well, it is the only torrent client - server system. Isn't it?
[02:03] <apachelogger> that was short fun -.-
[02:03] <apachelogger> neversfelde: dunno
[02:03] <apachelogger> don't care either :P
[02:03] <neversfelde> think so
[02:03] <neversfelde> hehe
[02:04] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot103.png
[02:04] <apachelogger> I like the icon though
[02:06] <neversfelde> I took a look at it and ad no idea how to fix. I need a teacher :D
[02:06] <apachelogger> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[02:06] <neversfelde> time to sleep. n8 everybody
[02:07] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: does that thing start for you?
[02:07]  * NCommander is away (Hiding from apachelogger)
[02:07] <apachelogger> neversfelde: nini
[02:07] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: when I tested it for my initial comment, it started
[02:11] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: for some reason it installs in the wrong directory here
[02:21] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=859317 :P
[02:21] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[02:36] <jjesse> evening
[02:55] <apachelogger> kde rev 859317
[02:55] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: look at that goodness ^
[02:55]  * apachelogger hands stdin a ☕
[02:55] <JontheEchidna> I know, I used it earlier today. ^_^
[02:56]  * stdin has ReadyBrek and is happy
[02:56]  * JontheEchidna hands stdin a ☕ too
[03:08] <apachelogger> hm
[03:08] <apachelogger> 50% of batpaste done
[03:08] <apachelogger> well
[03:08] <apachelogger> maybe more like 40
[03:08] <apachelogger> 4am already
[03:08] <apachelogger> omg
[03:14] <apachelogger> http://paste.ubuntu.com//45135/
[03:26] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/screencasts/batpaste-1.ogg
[06:23] <yuriy> turning the globe over in marble is a good way to make you dizzy
[07:30] <mornfall> Re.
[07:30] <mornfall> Riddell: I don't have much idea about KProcess (that's part of the reason I avoided doing it that way...).
[08:03] <NCommander> Riddell, are you awake?
[10:07] <mornfall> Riddell: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=170788
[10:08] <mornfall> Riddell: Is that the same that you have seen wrt. HAL upgrades?
[10:15] <Riddell> I had an issue with HAL upgrades?
[10:19] <Riddell> NCommander: yes
[10:21] <NCommander> Riddell, I tested kdelibs on amd64, seems to work, but I don't know a good way to abuse it
[10:21] <NCommander> (the fix from lastnight)
[10:21] <Riddell> NCommander: what's the fix?
[10:21] <NCommander> Riddell, that was the one where kdelibs FTBFS on amd64 in intrepid
[10:22] <NCommander> I also tested kdelibs on lpia (the SRU), also seems to work, also no idea how to abuse it, but granted since its always FTBFS, I can say its an improvement no matter how you look at it
[10:23] <Riddell> NCommander: what's the fix?
[10:24] <NCommander> Riddell, on amd64, I disabled inotifity optimization; changes in the kernel header and glibc was causing the FTBFS (bug filed on that conflict since that should be resolved, but the change will probably take awhile to land)
[10:24] <NCommander> As for lpia, the PPP interface has a managed header
[10:24] <NCommander> (corrected in intrepid)
[10:25] <NCommander> *mangled header
[10:26] <NCommander> I fixed that by having it use the glibc PPP headers instead
[10:27] <NCommander> Riddell, as a second aside, your in Ubuntu Drivers, right?
[10:30] <mornfall> Riddell: In Adept, I recall..
[10:30] <mornfall> Same weird post-install failure that I couldn't relate.
[10:30] <mornfall> I think you resolved it by not using kdesudo but sudo. Which is, umm, weird.
[10:34] <NCommander> Riddell, https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-team- mind adding me to this team?
[10:45] <Riddell> NCommander: disabling inotify optimisation or disabling inotify at all?
[10:46] <NCommander> Riddell, it was --disable-inotify, the entire header is screwed up
[10:46] <NCommander> Riddell, it falls back to dnotify which is still faster then the other fallback code it has
[10:49] <NCommander> Riddell, I suspect the issue will crop up on the buildds once they are updated. I was able to confirm the header issues between glibc 2.8 and linux-headers 2.6.27 will crop up on i386 and lpia since the file that breaks the build (asm-generic/fctnl.h and bits/fnctl.h) are generic across all architectures as fara sI can tell
[10:50] <Riddell> so we disable it for now, wait for someone to fix it then re-enable it
[10:51] <NCommander> Riddell, pretty much, I have an outstanding bug on glibc and linux-headers
[10:51] <NCommander> Riddell, and I noted as such that this issue needs to be resolved in the headers, not in kdelibs
[10:53] <NCommander> s/kdelibs/kdenetwork/g (on lpia)
[10:53] <NCommander> Riddell, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdenetwork/+bug/267991 - I tested to make sure kppp opens, but I have no modem which to test with
[10:55] <NCommander> Riddell, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glibc/+bug/268311 - the headers issue
[12:15] <Riddell> NCommander: so, where's this kdelibs patch?
[12:21] <Riddell> NCommander: I'm not in Ubuntu Drivers
[12:21] <Riddell> NCommander: why do you want to be added to kubuntu-team?  it's obsolete
[12:31] <Riddell> mornfall: upgrading hal through kdesudo adept leads to it getting stuck for me http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/tmp/adept.png
[12:33] <mornfall> That's weird. And without kdesudo?
[12:33] <Riddell> mornfall: trying now
[12:34] <mornfall> (Btw, yes, I forgot about those icons. But you can now edit the desktop files yourself and I'll pull the patch, would that work? Well, if not, it's still in the TODO. :)
[12:35] <Riddell> mornfall: with sudo I don't get that problem
[12:35] <Riddell> humph to kdesudo
[12:35] <mornfall> Riddell: Does it break in any other way or it just works?
[12:37] <mornfall> Riddell: Moreover, could you try downgrading again, stopping hald and then trying with kdesudo? Or alternatively, ensure hald runs and try with sudo again?
[12:37] <mornfall> Riddell: It might be that it failed to come up and it's not really related to sudo/kdesudo but to hald running or not running.
[12:49] <Riddell> mornfall: downgrade, stop hal, kdesudo adept, upgrade hal, still gets stuck
[12:52] <mornfall> Aye.
[12:52] <mornfall> So we have an interesting case of bad interaction somewhere.
[12:52] <mornfall> I assume downgrade, sudo adept, upgrade hal -> works?
[12:53] <mornfall> Let me try here.
[12:53] <Riddell> mornfall: works for me
[12:53] <Riddell> I have no problem with giving up on kdesudo for adept :)
[12:55] <mornfall> There's no recent kdesudo in Debian it seems -- the one that's there wants to drag kdelibs4c2a in, and its version says 2.4-1.
[12:55] <mornfall> Riddell: Me neither, but we need a way to run it nevertheless...
[12:55] <mornfall> And kdesu is not going to work, is it?
[12:55] <Riddell> it might
[12:56] <mornfall> But, kdesu is now a library, so used somewhere inside the runFooByDesktopBar machinery...
[12:57] <mornfall> Or so I believe.
[12:57] <Riddell> mornfall: it's /usr/lib/kde4/libexec/kdesu.distrib
[12:57] <Riddell> which is a dpkg-divert from /usr/lib/kde4/libexec/kdesu caused by kdesudo
[12:58] <Riddell> mornfall: running adept with that and upgrading hal works fine
[12:58] <Riddell> where's Tonio to harras when you need him :)
[12:58] <apachelogger> Riddell: merges need a FFe, don't they?
[12:58] <mornfall> Oh. Interesting.
[12:58] <Riddell> apachelogger: if it has new features yes
[12:58] <apachelogger> k, thanks
[13:00] <JontheEchidna> good morning
[13:00] <mornfall> JontheEchidna: Hi. Are you sure that your patch doesn't cause any regressions? It seems to me that some of those commented out bits you reenabled might have served a purpose... (or was it just Yuriy's appearance change?).
[13:01] <apachelogger> morning JontheEchidna
[13:01] <apachelogger> Riddell: did you actually upload my kdebase-workspace change from yesterday?
[13:01]  * apachelogger didn't get an upload mail
[13:01] <mornfall> Hi apachelogger.
[13:02] <apachelogger> ahoy mornfall
[13:04] <Riddell> mornfall: I pushed the icon change to my branch
[13:05] <mornfall> Have you?
[13:05] <mornfall> Pulling from "http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/darcs/adept-3/"...
[13:05] <mornfall> No remote changes to pull in!
[13:05] <Riddell> apachelogger: launchpad says I didn't, what was I to upload
[13:05] <mornfall> Hmh.
[13:05] <mornfall> Or maybe a different url?
[13:05] <Riddell> mornfall: that's the one, maybe the cache is getting in the way
[13:05] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/debdiffs/kdebase-workspace_4.1.1-0ubuntu4_to_ubuntu5.diff
[13:06] <JontheEchidna> mornfall: I have played around with the patch and I didn't notice any adverse affectws
[13:06] <JontheEchidna> *affects
[13:06]  * apachelogger needs a batcache script to remember the urls of batpaste and batdiff ;-)
[13:06] <apachelogger> smarter: did you apply for motu yet?
[13:07] <smarter> apachelogger: nop, watching the LHC experiment atm
[13:07] <JontheEchidna> I approached this by taking the current sidebar.cpp from Okular and re-doing the Adept changes to it
[13:07] <apachelogger> uhhh
[13:07] <apachelogger> smarter: go write your application!
[13:07] <Riddell> mornfall: try http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/adept-3/
[13:08] <mornfall> Riddell: Works, great.
[13:09] <mornfall> JontheEchidna: Okey, could be. I'll try to review it more carefully, although I am somewhat reluctant to do this sort of change post-beta... But maybe for you... :)
[13:09] <JontheEchidna> :)
[13:09] <mornfall> You can get that as a reward for the bugtracker work you are doing, I guess. ; - )
[13:09] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[13:10] <apachelogger> ♥ bugs
[13:10] <JontheEchidna> aw crap, KDE has decided openoffice is the best solution for opening .diffs
[13:10] <Riddell> apachelogger: I thought I had uploaded that but maybe not.  done so now
[13:10] <apachelogger> Riddell: thank you :)
[13:11] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: that's been on my things-to-look-at list for ages
[13:11] <apachelogger> Oo
[13:11] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: feel free to fix it :)
[13:11] <apachelogger> guys
[13:11] <apachelogger> that shouldn't happen at all
[13:11] <apachelogger> kate has a pretty strong initial-preference
[13:11] <JontheEchidna> yes well
[13:11] <JontheEchidna> kate's gone from my menu
[13:11] <apachelogger> which should supersed anything
[13:11] <JontheEchidna> like what happened in hardy
[13:12] <JontheEchidna> no more menu entry
[13:12] <apachelogger> unless openoffice got an uber strong
[13:12] <JontheEchidna> and from krunner it has no icon
[13:12] <apachelogger> hm, maybe it is super vragile
[13:12] <Riddell> kate doesn't list must in the way of mimetypes
[13:12] <apachelogger> *fragile
[13:13]  * apachelogger has no idea in which condition kdepim is, due to all the KDE 3 junk
[13:14] <apachelogger> ScottK: bug 262538
[13:17] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: wasn't that always junk?
[13:18] <apachelogger> KDE 3? pretty much :P
[13:19] <apachelogger> Riddell: btw, kubuntu-team is going to become kubuntu-bugs as soon as the name is free (otherwise kubuntu-bugs-team), I'll then trigger a renewal of all current members to cleanup the list of actual bug triagers
[13:19] <apachelogger> Riddell: oh, and I think Kubuntu Council should be owner for branding reasons :)
[13:21] <Riddell> sounds good
[13:26] <JontheEchidna> btw, Almost Kubuntu Bugs needs subscribed to adept bugs
[13:34] <apachelogger> oh
[13:35] <apachelogger> Riddell: please make JontheEchidna an admin so he can subscribe the team to more packages
[13:35] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/14661444/Screenshot.png
[13:35] <JontheEchidna> lol seamonkey
[13:35] <apachelogger> ♥ mozilla-suite
[13:35] <apachelogger> well, at least until mozilla dropped official support for it
[13:37] <JontheEchidna> mornfall: I would guess that bug 122029 falls more into the realm of an unimplemented feature?
[13:37] <Riddell> apachelogger: admin of what?
[13:37] <mornfall> JontheEchidna: Hm. Have you tried reproducing that?
[13:37] <davmor2> Riddell: Quick query should the calendar plasmoid link into something in a similar way as the calendar applet in gnome does?
[13:38] <Riddell> davmor2: not yet
[13:38] <Riddell> it will when akonadi is used I guess
[13:38] <mornfall> JontheEchidna: I wouldn't be surprised if that's been fixed in the meantime.
[13:38] <davmor2> Okay so it will just not yet :)
[13:39] <JontheEchidna> mornfall: oh, it's been fixed ;-)
[13:39] <apachelogger> Riddell: kubuntu-team
[13:40] <Riddell> apachelogger: but that's about to go away isn't it?
[13:41] <apachelogger> Riddell: no, I am just going to rename it
[13:41] <apachelogger> that is saving us the trouble of subscribing to the core packages again
[13:42] <Riddell> apachelogger: ok, done
[13:42] <apachelogger> thank you
[13:42] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: you should now be able to subscribe almost bugs to adept
[13:42] <JontheEchidna> cool
[13:45] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: do you have your @ubuntu.com mail address yet?
[13:45] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: don't think so
[13:45]  * JontheEchidna tests
[13:46] <JontheEchidna> hmm, well my message hasn't bounced yet
[13:47] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I sent you a mail
[13:47] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: got it
[13:47] <JontheEchidna> yay
[13:47] <apachelogger> then you haz echidnaman@ubuntu.com :P
[13:47] <apachelogger> and @kubuntu.org of course
[13:48] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: try opening the attachment in ooo
[13:48] <JontheEchidna> works for me, sorta
[13:48] <JontheEchidna> the file is empty
[13:48] <apachelogger> yeah
[13:48] <apachelogger> supposed to :P
[13:49] <JontheEchidna> k
[13:49] <JontheEchidna> works
[13:49] <apachelogger> question is, how does that work with a non-utf8 file
[13:49]  * apachelogger fires up the windows vm
[13:58] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: please try again with new mail
[13:59] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: test
[14:00] <JontheEchidna> that's what the file says ;-)
[14:00] <apachelogger> omg
[14:00] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: it opens?
[14:00] <JontheEchidna> yus
[14:01] <apachelogger> groovy, thx
[14:03] <apachelogger> I am wondering how to test bug 228241
[14:03] <apachelogger> I got approx 5000000 mails in my gmail account -.-
[14:04] <emunkki> apachelogger, so little?
[14:04] <apachelogger> yus
[14:05] <emunkki> hehe
[14:05] <apachelogger> still too big for reasonable cachedimaping :P
[14:06] <jjesse> 500K emails in your gmail account?
[14:06] <jjesse> sorry 5million emails
[14:06] <jjesse> wow
[14:12] <neversfelde> where is the default build log from pbuilder?
[14:15] <apachelogger> /var/cache/pbuilder/result(s)
[14:15] <apachelogger> if it built sucessfully
[14:15] <apachelogger> otherwise it will not write a log
[14:15] <apachelogger> awesome default, isn't it? :P
[14:17] <neversfelde> mhh, .diff.gz, .dsc, .changes and .deb. No logfile
[14:18] <apachelogger> hm
[14:18] <apachelogger> maybe it doesn't even create a log with successful built
[14:19] <apachelogger> awesome default, isn't it? :P
[14:19] <neversfelde> rofl
[14:19] <apachelogger> neversfelde: add PKGNAME_LOGFILE=yes to you pbuilderrc
[14:19] <apachelogger> and maybe PKGNAME_LOGFILE_EXTENTION="_$(dpkg --print-architecture).build"
[14:20] <neversfelde> will try it. thx
[14:33] <goatsocks> apachelogger: u has codez for bug 267501 ?
[14:33] <apachelogger> no
[14:37] <goatsocks> apachelogger: so when you say "The next kdesudo release should take of this." you mean a fix hasn't been worked on yet
[14:37] <apachelogger> I mean tonio has a fix but apparently didn't commit/push his changes
[14:38] <goatsocks> oh hm
[14:40] <Riddell> mornfall: nyarg, the KProcess breakage is another kdesudo issue
[14:41] <Riddell> mornfall: well, may be the same kdesudo issue I guess
[14:44] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bug 159158
[14:44]  * apachelogger doesn't know what to do
[14:45] <apachelogger> and I don't really care either
[14:45] <JontheEchidna> ask for testing with KDE 4.5.6 beta7 release pack1 and mark as incomplete
[14:45] <JontheEchidna> hide, and hope the tester never responds
[14:46] <apachelogger> lol
[14:46] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: you do
[14:46] <apachelogger> I cover up if he responds :P
[14:47] <JontheEchidna> :P
[14:47] <goatsocks> mark it Wishlist
[14:47] <apachelogger> well
[14:47] <apachelogger> despite fact I have no clue what PDT is
[14:47] <apachelogger> the report is a bug if valid
[14:48] <goatsocks> pdt is pacific daylight savings time
[14:48]  * apachelogger thinks it is more of an google calendar issue though
[14:49] <JontheEchidna> they should have a bugday
[14:49] <JontheEchidna> on bugs with useless tags
[14:50] <JontheEchidna> or maybe just fix malone
[14:50] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: oh christ, I just saw the reporter of that bug
[14:50] <JontheEchidna> this is going to be pleasent
[14:50] <goatsocks> JontheEchidna: that's why i said mark it Wishlist ;)
[14:50] <JontheEchidna> goatsocks: haha
[14:51] <goatsocks> JontheEchidna: or tell him to move to a jurisdiction that doesn't observe daylight savings time
[14:51] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: context missing
[15:22] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bug 205888
[15:22] <apachelogger> I don't even have that many mailing list subscriptions :P
[15:23] <apachelogger> that sounds like "social network for your news aggegator... who got the most feeds!?"
[15:23] <smarter> wow
[15:23] <jjesse> wow 1024 feeds
[15:23] <jjesse> thats a lot to read each day
[15:23] <apachelogger> exactly that will be the reason for won't fix
[15:25] <apachelogger> hm
[15:25] <apachelogger> letz say there is one intersting news, per feed, per day
[15:25] <apachelogger> say one needs 5 minuts per news
[15:26] <apachelogger> that makes 5120 minutes per day
[15:26] <apachelogger> that are ~86 hours
[15:26] <apachelogger> ~ 3.5 days
[15:27] <jjesse> so basically an endless loop or read feeds
[15:27] <apachelogger> that makes 1278 days per year
[15:28] <apachelogger> even if you only read half the stuff you still wouldn't have enough time
[15:29] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: bat10nfail (bug 268556)
[15:29] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: please assign to me
[15:29] <apachelogger> I doubt this is really a problem with batl10n
[15:29] <apachelogger> but -lt might just not include the junk that goes in that package usually
[15:30] <apachelogger> (i.e. docs + desktop files)
[15:37] <goatsocks> i doubt they actually read the feeds, they probably filter on them for keywords they're interested in
[15:39] <seele> were there major network driver updates since alpha 4?
[15:41] <smarter> seele: I think alpha4 had 2.6.26 and we're on .27 now, so they were probably a lot of changes :)
[15:41] <goatsocks> not to mention the networkmanager backend bump that broke knetworkmanager
[15:42] <seele> ooh, maybe that's what happened.
[15:43] <goatsocks> seele: bug 259278
[15:47] <seele> JontheEchidna: re kickoff: aren't app names (the second line) supposed to be on by default?
[15:48] <jjesse> is that the name like Web Browser?
[15:48] <JontheEchidna> seele: I don't think kickoff has that option, only the traditional menu
[15:49] <goatsocks> according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Todo it's not done yet
[15:49] <Riddell> seele: that's what we want but it probably needs a patch and nobody has done it yet
[15:49] <seele> Riddell: ah ok
[15:49]  * seele is going through the todo and some notes again
[15:49] <seele> gah, i should probably do some dayjob work
[15:51] <apachelogger> can we please do a patch that can be incorported upstream :P
[15:52] <goatsocks> apachelogger: you don't want to maintain a frankenstein menu?
[15:53] <seele> mornfall: you might want to consider a [Search] submit button since it's a search submit and not a automatic filter (both manager and installer)
[15:53] <apachelogger> I don't want to maintain patches
[15:53] <mornfall> seele: Not sure I follow?
[15:54] <mornfall> seele: It should do as-you-type in manager (although not so in installer, that's true... a button there might help.)
[15:54] <goatsocks> as-you-type works unless you have a dash somewhere in the search term
[15:55] <seele> ooh, it requires three letters before it displays anything
[15:55] <seele> huh.. is that how the other kde filters work?  i thought they start filtering at one letter
[15:55] <goatsocks> seele: that's pretty standard with search engines :)
[15:55] <seele> goatsocks: yeah, but that's not how it works in kde
[15:56] <goatsocks> "k" for instance would choke it up on too many top-level matches
[15:56] <seele> so we make it work differently than every other filter in the kde environment?  it would make more sense to make it a hard search
[15:57] <goatsocks> every other filter? well i just tried akregator, and it starts at 3 letters
[15:57] <mornfall> seele: Do you realistically expect people to search for 2 (or 1) letter strings?
[15:57] <seele> i'm looking at system monitor, dolphin, system settings, and kickoff
[15:57] <goatsocks> same with kmail
[15:58] <goatsocks> and those are pretty major kde apps :)
[15:58] <seele> mornfall: the problem is there is no immediate feedback
[15:58] <mornfall> I mean, would they be confused with not getting results after typing the first letter?
[15:58] <seele> if they were expecting a dynamic search and that's how the rest of the environment works?  yes
[15:58] <goatsocks> kontact does begin at one letter
[15:58] <mornfall> Well, if they type *really* slow, I imagine they'd think "oh, you need to press enter to make it search" then before they finish typing their query they see results "oh, not really".
[15:58] <mornfall> But dunno.
[15:58] <goatsocks> er contacts
[15:58] <seele> goatsocks: kmail begins search on 1 letter
[15:59] <seele> try an x or z
[15:59] <mornfall> seele: Well, also note that in most kde apps, it's a filter, not a search.
[15:59] <seele> mornfall: whatever, i'm just giving you feedback.  the current implementation is inconsistent with the kde environment and may cause confusion
[15:59] <mornfall> So it's a different already.
[16:00] <seele> how would i know this is a search and not a filter?  the widget looks exactly the same and the context is similar to filter contexts
[16:00] <mornfall> -a
[16:00] <mornfall> seele: True, but look at the results -- they are ordered by relevance.
[16:00] <seele> the problem is before you get to the results
[16:00] <goatsocks> seele: you're right, kmail and akgregator start on the first, i was typing in vowels ;)
[16:01] <mornfall> So after you get results is not a problem, even if it's inconsistent with rest of KDE?
[16:01] <seele> mornfall: there is no message on how the results are sorted so it would probably look like a filter
[16:02] <mornfall> It's technically infeasible to implement single-letter searches just for sake of consistency. What do you suggest instead?
[16:02] <seele> 1) adding an explicit button that says [Search]
[16:02] <seele> 2) adding a header to the top of the results which says "Sorted by relevance"
[16:02] <mornfall> seele: Horizontal space is scarce.
[16:03] <mornfall> Actually, all space is scarce and I'm trying to avoid the crampedness I had complaints about in 2.1.
[16:04] <seele> what about putting the search bar on top of the list?
[16:04] <seele> the filters could probably stay on the side like they are since it is a different type of control
[16:04] <seele> they apply to the search results
[16:04] <mornfall> seele: That's not really true...
[16:04] <goatsocks> mornfall: fyi, kpackagekit does as seele suggests regarding the button: http://packagekit.org/img/kpk-search.png
[16:04] <mornfall> Try them out.
[16:05] <mornfall> The tags work the same as the search bar, really. In fact, they form a single query together.
[16:05] <seele> oh, heh.  i only used them after i got search results
[16:05] <seele> i thought they were additional filters
[16:06] <seele> oh they key are filters too, heh
[16:06] <seele> sheesh
[16:06] <mornfall> I am not sure about how commonly would people start out with tags. People were also asking for categories, so I figured they could use a starting point for the tags.
[16:07] <mornfall> Well, it says so in tooltips, doesn't it?
[16:07] <mornfall> Show <foo> packages.
[16:07] <mornfall> Maybe it could say "Hide <foo> packages" when they are active?
[16:07] <seele> it doesnt say it's clickable
[16:07] <seele> would putting the icons on buttons take up too much space?
[16:08] <seele> right now they look like they are part of the background instead of a widget
[16:08] <mornfall> It would be dead-ugly.
[16:08] <seele> the tags are a little more forgiving because if you move your mouse over them they change color
[16:08] <mornfall> Buttons are extremely bulky in KDE.
[16:08] <mornfall> Maybe adding a mouse-over border to the icons?
[16:08] <mornfall> Dunno.
[16:08] <seele> yeah, that might help
[16:09] <seele> is that a standard mouse effect?  like if you mouse over a menu item it looks darker or gets a beveled border?
[16:09] <Riddell> mornfall: software-properties button added in my branch on muse, let me know how my c++ is doing
[16:09] <mornfall> No idea. The filter widget is pretty much custom, since I haven't seen anything like it in KDE yet.
[16:09] <goatsocks> seele: yes, in kontact's toolbar it's done that way
[16:10] <mornfall> Riddell: It sounds like it's time to make a 3.1 branch, all those feature changes are ... unsettling (also JontheEchidna's sidebar upgrade)...
[16:10] <mornfall> Not that I wouldn't trust your code or anything, I wouldn't trust anyone's this late in the cycle.
[16:11] <mornfall> Riddell: It says no remote changes again...
[16:11] <goatsocks> seele: also the lancelot menu makes nice use of highlight rings
[16:12] <mornfall> Riddell: It landed on kubuntu.org this time. ; - )
[16:12]  * mornfall giggles
[16:12] <seele> mornfall: what functionality does adept manager provide over adept installer?
[16:12] <mornfall> seele: Well, first of all, it manages packages, not applications.
[16:13] <mornfall> It really gives you a different view on the software.
[16:14] <seele> mornfall: so most people arent going to be using it anyway?
[16:14] <seele> i can't think of when i install a specific package, only a specific application
[16:14] <seele> but i'm not a developer so maybe i'm missing something other people need
[16:14] <seele> i would assume the application would isntall all of the necessary package dependencies for me automatically
[16:14] <Riddell> it only manages GUI applications so if you want to install bzr you still need manager
[16:15] <seele> aaah
[16:15] <mornfall> Right. Or gcc.
[16:15] <Riddell> mornfall: oh yes, curiosity of my bash history
[16:15] <seele> since those things are already categorized with your tags, couldn't they be added to the installer?
[16:15] <mornfall> Riddell: Any insight on why is the "clicked" slot called clearSelection()? : - )
[16:16] <mornfall> seele: No idea how that would work.
[16:16] <mornfall> seele: There are 10+ thousands of packages.
[16:16] <seele> hum oh well
[16:16] <JontheEchidna> 20+ thousand packages in Ubuntu
[16:16] <mornfall> Right.
[16:16] <seele> the installer ui is a lot easier to handle than the package manager
[16:17] <Riddell> mornfall: erm, let me think up a proper name or that method
[16:17] <mornfall> seele: Right, it's for the "common" case.
[16:17] <mornfall> Riddell: Don't worry about it, I can fix it up.
[16:17] <seele> mornfall: do devs really use a package manager and not apt-get?
[16:18] <seele> (they probably do, i'm just surprised)
[16:18] <JontheEchidna> seele: before I discovered apt-cache search I used manager for searching for packages
[16:18] <mornfall> seele: Dunno about devs. Ask the synaptic userbase.
[16:18] <goatsocks> i use apt for most stuff probably, but for certain tasks i find a gui more natural
[16:19]  * smarter only uses aptitude
[16:19] <goatsocks> aptitude is great for servers :)
[16:19]  * JontheEchidna finds aptitude strange, compared to apt-get
[16:20] <goatsocks> but in a gui environment i won't touch aptitude :)
[16:20] <smarter> JontheEchidna: aptitude is cool, it can solve sudoku :P http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/blog/entry/package-management-sudoku/
[16:20] <JontheEchidna> smarter: yeah, gotta give it points for that
[16:24] <goatsocks> ubuntu is lucky though, there are several pretty good gui and cli utils for package management
[16:27] <seele> mornfall: are tags supposed to add to the search query or act as a filter?
[16:27] <seele> i type in print and get two entries. i click on printer under hardware and now i have 30?
[16:27] <seele> usually the way search building works is you start generic and get more focused, not the other way around
[16:27] <seele> so print would show everything, and then the tag would begin to delimit
[16:28] <mornfall> seele: The search uses a quality cutoff: if they first two were much better results than the rest, they hide that rest. If the tag changes situation, some new might show up.
[16:30] <seele> could you put feedback that says that? "Top Results".. whatever the default is "36 additional results.. click here to view"
[16:31] <seele> feedback might help teach the way the search works since it doesnt work like other searches
[16:38]  * Riddell wonders why setWindowIcon doesn't want to work for adept
[16:40] <mornfall> Good question. I haven't tried.
[16:40] <mornfall> seele: 3.1, I guess.
[16:41] <mornfall> seele: Although, it's likely to produce numbers in thousands, mostly with very questionable quality.
[16:44] <goatsocks> Riddell: heh, in the mirror dialog, software-properties-gtk knows i'm in the US and scrolls to the US node automatically, but software-properties-kde thinks i'm in Canada... do you get the same?
[16:45] <Riddell> goatsocks: it succesfully choses a UK mirror for me
[16:45] <goatsocks> Riddell: both gtk and kde versions agree?
[16:45] <Riddell> goatsocks: it maybe just the luck of what you run it
[16:46] <Riddell> let me try gtk
[16:46] <goatsocks> the difference between the two ports is what i'm getting at
[16:46] <Riddell> the kde one doesn't run in a thread, so the UI doesn't get updated
[16:47] <Riddell> there's no reason why it shouldn't though
[16:47] <goatsocks> well i've never chosen any canadian mirrors so it's not a threading/update issue i think
[16:47] <goatsocks> plus it pulls the country info differently
[16:47] <Riddell> and the kde one sometimes crashes when you click the button
[16:48] <Riddell> goatsocks: feel free to rip out whatever code is in the kde one for it and replace it with the code from the gtk one
[16:49] <goatsocks> Riddell: yeah i see you've marked abstracting out the guts for that dialog to a common file... i might take that up if there's too much to fix in the kde implementation
[16:50]  * goatsocks wishes gnome would just give up and adopt Qt
[16:51] <seele> huh
[16:52]  * seele doesnt' know what to make of sabdfl's latest blog entry
[16:52] <seele> canonical is going to hire more qt/kde developers?
[16:52] <jjesse> hasn't that been promised for a long time
[16:52] <goatsocks> maybe my wish is coming true?
[16:54] <jjesse> seele: i don't understand it either
[16:54] <goatsocks> i don't know what he means by "next-generation HIG"
[16:55] <jjesse> human interface group?
[16:55] <goatsocks> nobody really has a this-generation HIG
[16:55] <goatsocks> except Apple
[16:55] <seele> jjesse: human interface guidelines
[16:55] <goatsocks> gnome's is spare, and kde's is incomplete
[16:55] <seele> apple's is too wordy to be useful
[16:55] <goatsocks> MS doesn't give a fark
[16:55] <seele> he probably means a cross-desktop hig which is something that is being proposed elsewhere
[16:56] <seele> and a focus on development and UI patterns.. which again, is being proposed elsewhere
[16:56] <goatsocks> i'd love to see x-desktop HIG
[16:56] <jjesse> so why shouldn't we work with those proposed elsewhere instead of the not invented here
[16:56] <seele> because they've only been proposed, no one is working on them yet
[16:57] <jjesse> off to lunch will let my thoughts gather over lunch
[16:57] <goatsocks> seele: fd.o?
[16:58] <seele> goatsocks: those are technical specs, they don't deal with usability and design
[16:59] <seele> although fd.o would be an optimal host since they are project agnostic
[16:59] <goatsocks> seele: i'd think they'd be the only group credible enough to attempt such a thing
[17:00] <Riddell> goatsocks: well the kde mirror finder didn't work for me at all when I ran it just now
[17:00] <vorian> afternoon
[17:01] <goatsocks> Riddell: i had it crash on me twice as well... i'll see what i can do
[17:02] <goatsocks> hi nairov
[17:04] <goatsocks> what i glean from his post is that he seems serious about elevating kde to a first class status wrt integration
[17:05] <goatsocks> poor xfce
[17:07]  * apachelogger missing context again :P
[17:08] <apachelogger> goatsocks: who posted what?
[17:08] <goatsocks> hah, does it look like the LHC guys are using KDE? http://img388.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ohptoftimemeasured13sepjy2.png
[17:08] <goatsocks> apachelogger: shuttleworth's latest blog entry
[17:09] <apachelogger> hm
[17:09] <apachelogger> the prophet's blog posts are always too long to read TBH :P
[17:09] <Riddell> goatsocks: ooh nice
[17:09] <seele> apachelogger: youre not missing much.  more handwaving and empty promises.  no verbal commitment to anything
[17:09] <apachelogger> ic
[17:10] <apachelogger> now say KDE becomes first class desktop, does Riddell get more money?
[17:10] <apachelogger> does Riddell get money at all? or just beer?
[17:10] <apachelogger> we should discuss that in the meeting tomorrow :P
[17:10] <emunkki> burp
[17:11] <apachelogger> meh
[17:11] <apachelogger> bug triaging is brain draining
[17:12] <emunkki> sure
[17:12] <emunkki> answering to client emails is waste of both my and their time :P
[18:26] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: do you think the default kubuntu behavior is enough to mark bug 16325 as fixed?
[19:31] <kde_pepo> Hi, did anyone build a (k)ubuntu package of Skulpture yet? If so, I would like to add it to the kde-look site, if I am allowed.
[19:41] <JontheEchidna> kde_pepo: I can't find a skulpture package in ubuntu
[19:42] <kde_pepo> JontheEchidna, yep, maybe someone has a private repo where it's sitting in... launchpad or so.
[19:43] <smarter> what is skulpture? :}
[19:43] <kde_pepo> http://www.kubuntu-art.org/content/show.php/Skulpture?content=59031 a KDE 4 theme I wrote
[19:44] <stdin> kde_pepo: you know, you can register with launchpad.net and get a PPA (personal package archive). then you can build the package yourself and add the .deb or a link to the repository on kde-look.org
[19:45] <kde_pepo> stdin, I looked at that site, but I need to fiddle with GPG keys which I am not familar with.
[19:47] <stdin> kde_pepo: https://help.launchpad.net/FeatureHighlights/PersonalPackageArchives and https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart should guide you through the whole process
[19:47] <kde_pepo> maybe its easier than described, but the description scared me :)
[19:47] <stdin> there's also #launchpad for live help with it (i'm in there too)
[19:47] <smarter> kde_pepo: you could fill a needs-packaging bug reports so that people know that you're looking for someone to package it ;)
[19:48] <stdin> yeah, and if you know how to package it, you can get it on REVU and end up getting the package in universe
[19:49] <kde_pepo> the PPAQuickStart link is "empty"... do I need to log in to see the pages contents?
[19:49] <smarter> what is this kubuntu-art site for? Oo
[19:50] <kde_pepo> smarter, it is actually the same as kde-look.org :)
[19:50] <smarter> kde-look/kde-apps are uncool? :P
[19:50] <smarter> ah
[19:50] <kde_pepo> smarter, Frank registered many domain names.
[19:51] <stdin> kde_pepo: broken link https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
[19:51] <kde_pepo> ah ok
[19:53] <goatsocks> kde_pepo: i've been using the skulpture kwin deco, nice work ;)
[19:53] <kde_pepo> goatsocks, cool, thanks :)
[19:57] <kde_pepo> I assume 8.04 has KDE 4 already? because 8.10 is not released yet.
[19:57] <Tm_T> yes
[20:01] <stdin> 4.0.5 in hardy-backports and 4.1.1 in the KDE4 PPA
[20:09] <kde_pepo> am I allowed to use a key that expires?
[20:13] <ScottK-laptop> Up until the time it expires.
[20:45] <seele> mmm.. i probably shouldn't have had cake as an afternoon snack
[21:08]  * goatsocks is jealous, chugs a chocolate milk
[21:18] <seele> goatsocks: it's zucchini cake so maybe you will change your mind
[21:21] <goatsocks> zucchini?!
[21:21]  * goatsocks reverse-chugs his chocolate milk
[21:22] <seele> oh come on
[21:22] <seele> youve had carrot cake right?
[21:23] <seele> it's just like that but a different veggie
[21:24] <apachelogger> hm
[21:24] <JontheEchidna> carrot cake is good
[21:24]  * apachelogger watches how milk comes out of goatsocks' nose
[21:27] <JontheEchidna> Aren't 3rd party software sources stored in sources.list? bug 263456
[21:27] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I think we should remove the firefox user agent setting for google.com
[21:28] <apachelogger> without it gmail directs konqueror to the html interface
[21:28] <apachelogger> which might not be as fancy as the ajax one, but it works
[21:28] <JontheEchidna> I though the only way to get ajax to work was to set the user agent to firefox
[21:29] <JontheEchidna> well, ajax is buggy enough with konq anyway
[21:29] <apachelogger> that is my point
[21:29]  * apachelogger got communication problems
[21:33] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: keep an eye on the changes that andreas moog dude does, he closes import bugs too early
[21:34] <JontheEchidna> how early are we talking about?
[21:34]  * JontheEchidna is curious
[21:35] <apachelogger> well, 4 weeks
[21:35] <JontheEchidna> oh, important bugs
[21:35] <apachelogger> yus
[21:35] <JontheEchidna> eek
[21:35] <apachelogger> like KDE doesn't play nice on NFS
[21:35] <apachelogger> always has been that way
[21:36] <JontheEchidna> yeah, pretty much
[21:36] <apachelogger> and closing the report aint gonna fix it :P
[21:36] <JontheEchidna> dist-upgrade bugs are a pain to triage
[21:37] <JontheEchidna> because
[21:37] <JontheEchidna> -the users can only test when a new distro is released
[21:37] <jjesse> cant you force dist-upgrade like there is a new release?
[21:37] <JontheEchidna> -you have no clue if the newest version of the upgrader works until intrepid+1 is released
[21:38] <apachelogger> jjesse: the KDE configs are upgraded
[21:38] <apachelogger> and those cause the most issues
[21:38] <jjesse> ah
[21:38] <JontheEchidna> I mean
[21:38] <apachelogger> the others are file conflicts in packages, which are pretty easy to fix anyway
[21:38] <JontheEchidna> bugs with upgrade-manager-kde
[21:38] <JontheEchidna> not downloading the release announcement and a bunch of other crap
[21:39] <apachelogger> yeah, those are nasty as well
[21:39] <apachelogger> Oo
[21:39] <apachelogger> hum
[21:39] <apachelogger> bug 268623
[21:39] <JontheEchidna> other than that adept is pretty much triaged
[21:39] <apachelogger> didn't someone like... package kopete-crypto?
[21:39]  * apachelogger pokes stdin with his laser screwdriver
[21:40]  * apachelogger is really wondering about the stupidity of moinmoin
[21:40] <apachelogger> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages#Requesting a new package for Ubuntu  ... even mediawiki creates the anchors with _s
[21:41] <JontheEchidna> any clue if bug 47181 is still valid?
[21:41] <stdin> apachelogger: I packaged it ages ago, it was on revu somewhere
[21:43] <apachelogger> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=kopete-cryptography-kde4
[21:44] <apachelogger> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kopete-cryptography-kde4
[21:44] <apachelogger> stdin: did it get rejected?
[21:44] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: no clue
[21:44] <stdin> apachelogger: nope, approved
[21:44] <apachelogger> where is it?
[21:45] <stdin> well, last I heard it was approved on revu. after that I don't know
[21:45] <apachelogger> uhm
[21:45] <apachelogger> I think you should have gotten a mail about rejection
[21:45] <stdin> I don't think I knew about the new queue back then
[21:45] <stdin> I got no mail on it
[21:46] <apachelogger> :)
[21:46] <apachelogger> stdin: please update bug 176471 somehow
[21:47] <stdin> update how? I uploaded to revu and it got approved there. what more's a packager to do? ;)
[21:47]  * NCommander lives
[21:47] <apachelogger> stdin: fix it if it got rejcted
[21:49] <NCommander> hey apachelogger
[21:49] <stdin> apachelogger: how can I find the reason it was rejected?
[21:50] <apachelogger> ahoy NCommander
[21:50] <apachelogger> stdin: usually the rejecting adming sends you a mail
[21:50] <NCommander> apachelogger, how goes it this morning?
[21:51] <apachelogger> s/morning/evening
[21:51] <NCommander> :-P
[21:51]  * apachelogger is going to do bugfixing now
[21:51] <NCommander> apachelogger, see my bug from hell yet?
[21:51] <apachelogger> NCommander: no
[21:51] <apachelogger> where?
[21:51] <apachelogger> hell? devil? is it about vbox? vorian?
[21:51]  * apachelogger is confused :P
[21:51] <NCommander> apachelogger, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/music123/+bug/268260
[21:51] <vorian> !
[21:52] <vorian> devils
[21:52] <stdin> apachelogger: I don't have any emails on it
[21:52] <apachelogger> !devil
[21:52] <NCommander> apachelogger, I feel sorry for SRU
[21:52] <NCommander> !evil
[21:52] <NCommander> !life
[21:52] <NCommander> O_o;
[21:52] <apachelogger> stdin: maybe poke the robot
[21:52] <NCommander> Damn it, I was hoping for a hitchhiker's guide to galaxy reference
[21:52] <apachelogger> NCommander: that bug is sick
[21:53]  * apachelogger wouldn't file such a bug, just for the reason that SRU team wouldn't read it anway :P
[21:53] <NCommander> apachelogger, its never good when you have to tell an archive admin to expect 12 packages to enter -proposed
[21:53] <apachelogger> we are having an SRU for some imap bug in kdepim from dapper times around
[21:53] <NCommander> apachelogger, and have them go WTF
[21:53] <apachelogger> anyway
[21:53] <apachelogger> you are hindering development :P
[21:54] <apachelogger> or actually QA
[21:54] <NCommander> apachelogger, why?
[21:54]  * apachelogger ix fixing intrepid again!
[21:54] <apachelogger> _again_ :P
[21:54] <NCommander> apachelogger, what broke in Intrepid again?
[21:55] <apachelogger> KDE
[21:56] <jjesse> so nothing imporant :P
[21:56] <apachelogger> righto!
[21:56] <apachelogger> 2nd class anyway
[21:56] <apachelogger> <3rd class
[21:57] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bug 267182
[22:11] <stdin> apachelogger: seeing as it as never accepted into the archive, can I just start over with it? so clear out the changelog and make the version number right?
[22:11] <apachelogger> stdin: yes, also drop the -kde4
[22:11] <apachelogger> you'll need an FFe now
[22:12] <apachelogger> ♥ justice
[22:13] <stdin> does "ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/([\d\.]+)/src/extragear/kopete-cryptography-([\d\.]+)-kde([\d\.]+)\.tar\.bz2" look good for the watch file to you?
[22:15] <apachelogger> stdin: if it works ;-)
[22:15] <apachelogger> looks like it though
[22:15] <stdin> well ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/4.1.1/src/extragear/kopete-cryptography-1.3.0-kde4.1.1.tar.bz2 is the tarball, si it should
[22:15] <stdin> s/si/so/
[22:15] <apachelogger> stdin: uscan --no-download --debug
[22:15] <apachelogger> should tell you if it works properly
[22:16] <vorian> uscan --verbose --report
[22:16] <apachelogger> Riddell: I assigned bug 262957 and bug 267223 to you and made them critical, so we don't forget
[22:17] <stdin> apachelogger: ok, not quite right then :/ the tarball is 1.3.0-kde4.1.1 and it picks up 1.3.0.4.1.1
[22:18] <apachelogger> stdin: \-
[22:18]  * apachelogger actually starts reading that regexp
[22:19] <apachelogger> hm
[22:19] <stdin> ah, I just had to fiddle with the ( ) bits
[22:19] <apachelogger> I always find the watch file expressions rather strange
[22:19] <apachelogger> stdin: usually it should work with the first version you pasted
[22:19] <apachelogger> stupid uscan fiddeling
[22:19] <stdin> "ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/([\d\.]+)/src/extragear/kopete-cryptography-([\d\.]+-kde[\d\.]+)\.tar\.bz2"
[22:20] <apachelogger> I lost a bug
[22:20] <stdin> but that mean I'll have to give the package a version of 1.3.0-kde4.1.1
[22:20] <stdin> and I don't really want to
[22:21] <apachelogger> stdin: get-orig-source
[22:21] <stdin> yeah, probably easier
[22:23] <jtechidna> b.k.o is borked again
[22:24] <ryanakca> Could someone with python-qwt5-qt4 installed test something for me? In python, go 'from PyQt4.Qwt5 import *'... do you get a numpy.core.multiarray error? Should python-numpy be a depends for python-qwt5-qt4 ?
[22:25] <ryanakca> … even with python-numpy and python-numpy-ext I get the can't import error…
[22:26] <apachelogger> I declare bug 99044 uber high priority for that jackalope thing!
[22:26] <smarter> it already does
[22:27] <smarter> in Hardy it does at least
[22:27] <apachelogger> smarter: where?
[22:27] <smarter> oh, kde4, right :]
[22:27] <apachelogger> well
[22:27] <apachelogger> if it disappeared
[22:27] <apachelogger> it was patch
[22:27] <smarter> yes
[22:27] <apachelogger> and I seriously hate patches
[22:27] <apachelogger> for exactly that reason
[22:28] <apachelogger> they freakin disappear!
[22:28] <smarter> actually we should review all our patches to kde3 and try to get them upstream  and/or adapt them
[22:28] <apachelogger> nono
[22:28] <apachelogger> we should get them upstramPERIOD
[22:29] <apachelogger> patches which can not be applied upstream should be branding only, or short-term workarounds
[22:29] <apachelogger> everything else is sign of bad architecture
[22:30] <NCommander> apachelogger, if you really hate patchs, go check out gcl's source
[22:30] <NCommander> apachelogger, no patch system, 70MB diff
[22:30] <apachelogger> \o/
[22:30] <apachelogger> that is another thing I hate
[22:30] <apachelogger> patches without patch system
[22:33] <NCommander> apachelogger, BTW, gcl's total source is 15MB :-)
[22:33] <apachelogger> lol
[22:34] <NCommander> I'm actually going to file for removal
[22:34] <NCommander> There are copyright violations, it includes the full source of binutils without noting it int he copyright file
[22:37] <a|wen> lol ... gcl being version 2.6.7-36 should warn us already :P
[22:39] <apachelogger> Riddell, ScottK-laptop: bug 254296 please
[22:41] <apachelogger> Riddell: please take a look at bug 268438
[23:01] <kdepepo> It looks like filing a bug report with "needs-packaging" will request a package to be included into main distribution, but I would be happy just to have a package available in any other community repository.
[23:02] <apachelogger> we only do official packages
[23:10] <ScottK-laptop> apachelogger and Riddell: I'm doing the kurdish one.
[23:10] <Riddell> thanks
[23:10] <Riddell> language-pack packages are done by pitti with scripts
[23:17] <seele> hum.. why can't i submit a bug to kubuntu-default-settings?  it's telling me to submit an upstream bug
[23:18] <Riddell> seele: where?
[23:18] <seele> launchpad
[23:18] <seele> oh.. it's suggesting Ubuntu devmapper as the package to link it to? huh?
[23:19] <ScottK-laptop> seele: Does https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-default-settings/+filebug not work for you?
[23:20] <seele> argh, i dont understand!
[23:20] <seele> ScottK-laptop: yes, that link worked.. why!?
[23:20] <seele> i went to https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+filebug, clicked on project and choose kubuntu-default-settings from the popup
[23:20] <seele> apparently that isn't the way i'm supposed to do it
[23:20] <seele> stupid f*ing interface
[23:21] <seele> why does it let me choose kubuntu-default-settings if it isn't a project
[23:22] <ScottK-laptop> seele: File bugs.  Because in their paradigm, every package has a project with it.
[23:22] <JontheEchidna> launchpad projects can also opt not to use launchpad for bug tracking
[23:23] <ScottK-laptop> Right, but the funadmental probelm is that such projects are useless and confusing.
[23:23] <apachelogger> Riddell: is language-pack-kde-de even supposed to depend on kde-l10n-de?
[23:23] <ScottK-laptop> They shouldn't exist.
[23:25] <ScottK-laptop> apachelogger: Uploaded.  I made a few other changes too.
[23:26] <apachelogger> ScottK-laptop: Thank you. I hope you didn't do anything that breaks batch editing :P
[23:26]  * ScottK-laptop too.
[23:26] <apachelogger> hehe
[23:26]  * apachelogger continues triaging
[23:26] <ScottK-laptop> apachelogger: I just added lintian overrides for the quilt warnings (since it's needed regardless) and updated the maintainer to core-dev.
[23:26] <seele> Riddell: so remind me again what the problem was with the icon text position
[23:27] <seele> Riddell: setting the default was broken, so you hard coded it?
[23:27] <seele> Riddell: and you can still change the setting in system settings?
[23:27] <apachelogger> ScottK-laptop: Shouldn't cause any problems I think.
[23:28] <apachelogger> If we had l10n in a bzr branch, batch editing would be way easier IMHO.
[23:28] <seele> Riddell: is it only going to work for fresh intrepid installs?  because i've got it working in one place (reinstall) but not in another (upgrade)
[23:29] <NCommander> hey ScottK-laptop
[23:29] <ScottK-laptop> Heya NCommander.
[23:29] <NCommander> ScottK-laptop, uploaded kdelibs for me?
[23:30] <apachelogger> Riddell: strigiapplet should be removed, it only supports KDE 3 and no KDE 4 port in sight
[23:30] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: If you want a 'fun' one.  Look  at php-clamavlib.  It needs relibtoolization AND fixed to build with the new libclamav5.
[23:30] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Which one?
[23:30]  * ScottK-laptop will be back in a few.
[23:30] <NCommander> ScottK-laptop, the amd64 one
[23:31] <Riddell> apachelogger: how does it only support kde 3?
[23:31] <apachelogger> Riddell: kio slave
[23:32] <Riddell> seele: it was a curious problem that it wouldn't read our kdeglobals fine in our kubuntu profile directory
[23:32] <Riddell> seele: but it did when in the global profile directory (/etc/kde4/) so I've put it in there
[23:32] <apachelogger> Riddell: going to do some testing
[23:32] <Riddell> seele: so it's not hardcoded and it'll get removed if you remove kubuntu-default-settings
[23:32] <Riddell> apachelogger: ok
[23:34] <seele> Riddell: oh ok.  i assume that is good then.
[23:34] <seele> Riddell: if you upgrade kubuntu-default-settings will it change it to setting?
[23:34] <Riddell> seele: yes (unless you've edited the file)
[23:36] <seele> oh weird.  only half of KTorrents icons get changed to the new format
[23:36] <seele> the other half are icon over label
[23:36] <NCommander> ScottK, I'll help with your problem if you help with mine
[23:38] <apachelogger> Riddell: enter search term -> press enter -> konqueror popup with error about strigi:/ | uses crystal icons | doesn't follow KDE 4 file association (which in my cases opens ruby scripts with wine) | tries to draw a shadow of the search results, which is in fact placed in the top left corner rather than underneath the search result popup
[23:40] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Please point me at the patch again?
[23:40] <Riddell> apachelogger: right, I'll remove it
[23:40] <Riddell> apachelogger: vandenoever did say he was working on a KDE 4 one
[23:40] <NCommander> ScottK-laptop, I don't have it, I lost my files last night. You said you got it via email
[23:40] <ScottK-laptop> Ah.  That one.
[23:41] <ScottK-laptop> Yes, I have it.
[23:41] <ScottK-laptop> I mistook which one that is.
[23:41] <apachelogger> Riddell: would be cool if he manages to get it ready before intrepid, currently one can't really search strigi
[23:41] <apachelogger> then again it is not on by default anyway
[23:41] <NCommander> ScottK, I need a no-changes rebuild done on a package in hardy and uploaded to hardy-proposed (https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-python-extras/+bug/181068)
[23:42]  * apachelogger prepares an SRU for strigiapplet
[23:42] <NCommander> ScottK, I'll roll a proper debdiff for it
[23:42] <Riddell> apachelogger: he did suggest he would at akademy, but I've not seen anything
[23:44] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: The patch you mailed me last night was your 3.5.9 lpia fix.
[23:44] <NCommander> Ah crud
[23:44] <NCommander> apachelogger, do you still have my kdelibs patch on amd64?
[23:44] <apachelogger> NCommander: probably
[23:45] <NCommander> apachelogger, if so, can you please give it to ScottK so I don't need to reroll it
[23:45] <apachelogger> .!!!~~~~>Bat Pasted at http://paste.ubuntu.com/45536/
[23:45]  * apachelogger loves batpaste
[23:46] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Is this gnome-python-extras bug fixed in Intrepid?
[23:46] <NCommander> ScottK-laptop, yes, cody is going to do that one, since he can simply mark it ok for SRU, and save you some work
[23:47] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: It has to be done in Intrepid before we can upload to hardy-proposed.
[23:47] <NCommander> ScottK-laptop, its fixed in intrepid
[23:48] <a|wen> NCommander: regarding the inotify fix ... think i saw a proper fix (eg. not just disabling it) in the kde svn log
[23:49] <NCommander> a|wen, it would have to be a pretty extensive hackjob to fix that, since the problem was conflicting kernel/glibc headers
[23:49] <NCommander> (the issue doesn't seemingly happen on glibc 2.7)
[23:50] <a|wen> NCommander: r858854 | mueller | 2008-09-08 22:32:46 +0200 (Mon, 08 Sep 2008) | 3 lines
[23:50] <NCommander> link?
[23:50] <NCommander> (I could be wrong)
[23:51] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: kdelibs is a long testbuild, so you have some time to consider options.
[23:52] <apachelogger> kde rev 858854
[23:52] <NCommander> ScottK-laptop, its roughly 15 minutes for me
[23:52] <apachelogger> NCommander: ^
[23:52] <NCommander> awesome
[23:53]  * a|wen thanks apachelogger
[23:54] <NCommander> oh, I see how its fixed
[23:54] <NCommander> I didn't realize glibc had an interface for inotify
[23:54] <NCommander> a|wen, nice catch, I'll respin the fix
[23:55] <NCommander> ScottK, can you upload the hardy-proposed fix for me? It needs a core-dev to upload, its ubuntu-sru, not motu-sru thats needed >.<;
[23:55] <a|wen> NCommander: cool ... then there was a point for me to look at the svn commits today :)
[23:55] <NCommander> a|wen, I owe you one
[23:56]  * ScottK-laptop kills the kdelibs build.
[23:56] <NCommander> ScottK-laptop, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/music123/+bug/268260 - I'll help fix kdelibs if you'll help with this ;-)
[23:56]  * a|wen is still waiting for his kdepim build
[23:57]  * NCommander can hear scott screaming from here
[23:57] <seele> Riddell: is the updated kubuntu-default-settings in alpha 5 or post?
[23:57] <NCommander> kdelibs (4:3.5.10-0ubuntu4) intrepid; urgency=low
[23:57] <NCommander>   * Corrected FTBFS on amd64 by disabling inotify, which is broken
[23:57] <NCommander>     due to a glibc/linux headers disagreement on flock.
[23:57] <NCommander> Who uploaded this?
[23:58] <apachelogger> not me
[23:58] <Riddell> seele: no, went in yesterday
[23:58]  * NCommander rolls eyes
[23:58] <NCommander> I don't even know when my fixes are getting uploaded anymore
[23:58] <apachelogger> NCommander: shouldn't you get an email?
[23:58] <seele> Riddell: ok
[23:58] <NCommander> Not always
[23:58] <NCommander> It's been very hit or miss recently
[23:58] <apachelogger> I see
[23:58] <apachelogger> NCommander: well, at least it built on all arches ;-)
[23:59] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: For that I want php-clamavlib and the Hardy-Backports version of the kdelibs lpia patch.
[23:59] <NCommander> ScottK-laptop, what was wrong with kdelibs on lpia. It was kdenetwork that broke