[16:02] <aantn> hello
[16:07] <_MMA_> thorwil: You gonna be available on Friday around 1900UTC?
[16:17] <thorwil> _MMA_: should be no problem
[16:22] <_MMA_> Cool. That should be the meeting time.
[17:24] <thorwil> http://pages.usherbrooke.ca/mfesta/images/IsraelIbex1.jpg
[17:24] <thorwil> ^ is his right horn (his pov) broken?
[17:24] <thorwil> or are my geometry routines defect?
[17:27] <Flannel> thorwil: broken
[17:30] <kwwii> thorwil: hehe, broken indeed, but you barely notice it at first
[17:30] <thorwil> kwwii: yeah, i only really started to wonder after tracing him! :)
[17:33] <thorwil> now i need almost the same pose, but would like the silhouette of the head to be farther out of the body. plus 2 complete horns ...
[17:33]  * thorwil pencils
[19:21] <psyke83> hi
[19:23] <psyke83> kwwii: you there?
[19:39] <kwwii> psyke83: hey man
[19:48] <psyke83> kwwii: hey, I haven't checked the latest update, but will you be putting newhuman-light in community-themes?
[19:51] <dilomo> hello psyke83
[19:51] <dilomo> may I ask you a question?
[19:51] <psyke83> sure
[19:51] <_MMA_> no! :)
[19:52] <psyke83> you may ask a question, as long as you don't ask if you can ask questions anymore ;)
[19:52] <_MMA_> !ask
[19:52] <ubottu> Please don't ask to ask a question, ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely answer. :-)
[19:52] <_MMA_> :D
[19:52] <dilomo> well I have an issue to
[19:52] <dilomo> solve with New Wave
[19:53] <dilomo> I want to make the menubar use light colors
[19:53] <dilomo> but it is not possible with the gtkrc
[19:53]  * thorwil hands cookies to _MMA_ and ubottu 
[19:54] <dilomo> because firefox uses the color from menuitems that is black in my case
[19:54] <dilomo> do you know how to override this?
[19:57] <dilomo> needles to say I hate FF for that ;)
[19:57] <psyke83> dilomo: you want to change the background or text colour?
[19:58] <dilomo> text color
[19:58] <dilomo> you can get the theme here:
[19:58] <dilomo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/NewWave#Download
[19:59] <psyke83> give me a minute to reboot, I'm not in Ubuntu at the moment
[20:01] <dilomo> k
[20:02] <dilomo> I've found this could theme partially (bg color and pixmap) the menubar
[20:02] <dilomo> widget_class "MozillaGtkWidget*MenuBar"	        style :highest "newwave-menubar"#-mozilla"
[20:03] <dilomo> _MMA_: what's up with the icons man
[20:04] <_MMA_> Steady puttin' the technicals in place.
[20:04] <psyke83> dilomo: so I grab the RC2 package?
[20:04] <dilomo> psyke83: that's right
[20:05] <dilomo> _MMA_: cool. when you expexct to be available
[20:05] <dilomo> to the public
[20:05] <_MMA_> dilomo: For what? Icon development?
[20:06] <dilomo> yeah
[20:06] <_MMA_> Maybe a week or so. I'll have a official announcement hopefully soon.
[20:07] <dilomo> nice :)
[20:07] <_MMA_> I'm just building a base. It will be up to others to do the actual icons.
[20:08] <dilomo> the base is very important
[20:09] <dilomo> because ppl would not like to lose their work so to say
[20:09] <psyke83> dilomo: it seems something is messed up in the class definitions. I was working on a light version of the newhuman theme, and it doesn't have this problem (it also has light text on menubars)
[20:09] <psyke83> gimme a few mins to try and sort this out
[20:10] <dilomo> ok
[20:10] <dilomo> probably I have messed up everything :)
[20:23] <dilomo> so I have messed it up really impressive :)
[20:43] <psyke83> dilomo, this is pretty baffling :P
[20:43] <psyke83> I don't understand why Firefox isn't respecting the class properly in your theme, but does in another
[20:43] <psyke83> there must be a conflict that isn't obvious
[20:44] <dilomo> could it be in the way the matches are ordered?
[20:44] <dilomo> or is it that it's a pixmap engine?
[20:45] <dilomo> btw can you show me a theme that can do this so I can baffle too ;)
[20:45] <psyke83> hmm, actually I think the problem isn't within "murrine-menubar", brb
[20:47] <dilomo> murrine ? you mean the problem is not in the style "function"
[20:49] <psyke83> (I meant the "newhuman-menuitem" style)
[20:49] <psyke83> *"newwave-menuitem"
[20:50] <dilomo> I've tried to use clearlooks instead of pixmap
[20:50] <dilomo> but the result is the same
[20:54] <psyke83> dilomo: ok, found the problem. Obviously it's a bug in Firefox, but it is possible to workaround if you are willing to make some changes to the look of menus system-wide
[20:55] <dilomo> what changes are we talking about?
[20:56] <psyke83> basically, it seems Firefox grabs the text colour from the GtkMenu class erroneously, so if you go to the "newwave-menu" section and change fg[NORMAL] to @bg_color, it will solve the issue. But, that will also affect menuitem text
[20:57] <psyke83> if you change menus to use a darker background, then you can solve the issue
[20:58] <psyke83> Firefox's GTK "emulation" sucks, and I don't think it'll get fixed soon - so you need to work around bugs like this for an "unusual" theme
[20:58] <dilomo> hmm
[20:59] <dilomo> I thought that I might do that in the end
[20:59] <dilomo> but is there a way of making the popup /context menus
[20:59] <dilomo> have light bg?
[20:59] <psyke83> so, fg[NORMAL] has to be equal in "newwave-menubar" (for compliant apps) and "newwave-menu" (for Firefox/xulrunner apps)
[21:00] <psyke83> you mean the ComboBox menus?
[21:01] <dilomo> yes and the one like in textbox
[21:01] <dilomo> copy paste and so on
[21:01] <dilomo> so only dropdown menus from menubars to be dark
[21:01] <dilomo> but all others to be light
[21:02] <psyke83> well, I think Firefox probably uses the same sucky GTK emulation for GtkComboBox entries (which is used by textboxes)
[21:02] <dilomo> ohh I hate firefox
[21:03] <dilomo> why does not Ubuntu use Epiphany
[21:03] <dilomo> it works
[21:04] <_MMA_> mmmm.... Tabs and "compact list view". 'bout time. http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/nautilus.png
[21:04] <psyke83> _MMA_, I actually think that it sucks :). I think a dual-paned setup is far better for a filemanager (then again, maybe I was spoiled by Directory Opus when I used the Amiga all those years ago...)
[21:05] <_MMA_> bah... With massive amounts of files dual-pane is a *pain* on small screens.
[21:06] <psyke83> I always used a 1024x768 resolution :P. The problem is GTK's whitespace and freetype's bloated text rendering
[21:07]  * _MMA_ hugs his 1920x1600 screen.
[21:07] <psyke83> if you compare e.g. Windows Explorer listview, Nautilus's listview (at the smallest zoom) is 2x the size
[21:08] <_MMA_> Change the font size.
[21:08] <_MMA_> I have no clue why we use such big fonts.
[21:08] <psyke83> already at 9pt, the smallest size that's legible
[21:08] <dilomo> whoaa this looks blurry
[21:08] <_MMA_> Though, I set it smaller in Studio by default. :P
[21:10] <dilomo> after all black text on dark grey isn't that bad ;-)
[21:10] <dilomo> oh god why they do so stupid software
[21:13] <dilomo> hey _MMA_ do you have some problems with FF with that dark theme?
[21:13] <_MMA_> Yes.
[21:14] <_MMA_> minimal though. Just one spot.
[21:14] <_MMA_> But you have already been talking to the right guy. ;)
[21:15] <dilomo> yes :)
[21:15] <dilomo> psyke83: what do you think shoild be better
[21:15] <dilomo> the dark text or not very usable menus?
[21:18] <psyke83> dilomo: I would go with a dark menu background to workaround the Firefox bug
[21:19] <dilomo> well at least I can try :)
[21:21] <dilomo> btw how do you find the metacity theme
[21:21] <dilomo> there are some complains about it and I think I should redesign the buttons form the ground up
[21:23] <psyke83> there must be something wrong here, as the metacity theme isn't displaying properly (it's showing the NewHuman theme with a grey palette)
[21:23] <psyke83> ah it works now
[21:24] <psyke83> IMHO, a dark menu background looks a lot better
[21:25] <psyke83> http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/xchat.png
[21:25] <psyke83> I would change the menuitem prelight image and prelight colours, but it seems a change for the better nevertheless
[21:25] <dilomo> It has the advantage that it will look like part of the menubar and titlebar
[21:25] <dilomo> but will be harder to read
[21:27] <dilomo> wow taht xchat looks good
[21:27] <dilomo> do you think that I should change the menubar prelight too?
[21:28] <psyke83> well, something light (since the background is no longer light)
[21:29] <psyke83> er, I meant to change the prelight text for menuitems
[21:29] <dilomo> no I mean the image that is used on File, Edit, View ...
[21:30] <psyke83> yes, it's fine the way it is (unless you change the prelight image to something dark as well)
[21:30] <dilomo> I think I'll keep it
[21:31] <dilomo> man thanks a lot for your attempts to fix this
[21:31] <dilomo> now you convinced me to change the menus
[21:32] <psyke83> no prob
[21:33] <dilomo> the color you use for menubg is 696969 right?
[21:33] <psyke83> sure, but it didn't seem to change - I had to remove the whole "pixmap" subsection - so you'll need to tinker on that
[21:34] <dilomo> ok
[21:34] <dilomo> np
[21:35] <dilomo> btw is it possible to theme the menubar on the Panel
[21:35] <dilomo> differently than normal menubar
[21:35] <_MMA_> You mean menubar vs. main-menu?
[21:36] <dilomo> yes
[21:36] <psyke83> I haven't looked into it extensively, but if it does, you'd need to use a widget class override, e.g.: widget_class "*Panel*Menu*" (or something more precise)
[21:37] <psyke83> I'm not sure if gnome-panel advertises the widgets like that, though
[21:38] <dilomo> I think it was #widget_class "*Panel*MenuBar*" style "newwave-panelbar"
[21:38] <dilomo> in the gtkrc
[21:38] <dilomo> but didn't helped
[21:38] <dilomo> :(
[21:40] <psyke83> what about "*Panel*Menu*"?
[21:41] <dilomo> haven't tried it
[21:41] <dilomo> I make menus darker can I still theme the main menu with light bg ?
[21:41] <dilomo> using these matches will probabluy help
[21:42] <dilomo> probably*
[21:42] <psyke83> I don't know if it'll work
[21:43] <_MMA_> dilomo: Are you trying to give the menubar menus a different color that the rest of the app menus?
[21:43] <psyke83> ok, it does work
[21:43] <psyke83> you need to override the style
[21:43] <dilomo> how?
[21:43] <dilomo> it's very important for me
[21:44] <dilomo> is it like that "*Panel*Menu*"
[21:44] <psyke83> change to: widget_class "*Panel*MenuBar*" style:highest "newwave-panelbar"
[21:45] <psyke83> I tested by clearing the newwave-panelbar section and inserting bg[NORMAL] = @base_color, and it turned white
[21:45] <psyke83> you need to pkill gnome-panel to see changes take effect
[21:46] <dilomo> that is just fantastic
[21:47] <_MMA_> psyke83: We gotta do something about Studio's tooltip colors. It's all too dark.
[21:47] <dilomo> and I jsut fixed that overlay bug
[21:47] <dilomo> that bothered me for so long
[21:47] <dilomo> if notice the menubar bg has darker gradient
[21:49] <psyke83> _MMA_,
[21:49] <psyke83> remember we have to account for the gedit warning bubbles, etc
[21:50] <_MMA_> gah. I hate GTK theming.
[21:50] <dilomo> :)
[21:50]  * _MMA_ goes to buy a mac.
[21:51] <dilomo> btw can this yellow at the left of toolbaloons be canged
[21:51] <dilomo> to smth else
[21:51] <psyke83> _MMA_, don't wanna make your head assplode, but your Mac would still be affected after installing UbuntuStudio on it :P
[21:51] <_MMA_> I'm gonna choke you.
[21:51] <psyke83> heh
[21:51] <_MMA_> Or...
[21:51] <_MMA_> Ill buy a PPC G5. :P
[21:52] <dilomo> :D
[21:52] <_MMA_> No PPC Studio. ;)
[21:52] <psyke83> that's nice, enjoy your obsolete OS and lack of applications, then :P
[21:52] <_MMA_> w00t!
[21:53] <_MMA_> Hey, I have a Color Classic that still runs like a champ. :)
[21:53] <psyke83> maybe I'll go back to OS/2 to avoid this suffering as well (it's cheaper than buying new hardware :P)
[21:54] <_MMA_> Isn't there still some sort of community around OS/2?
[21:54] <psyke83> yeah, they're offering a bounty to get applications ported
[21:55] <dilomo> :)
[21:55] <_MMA_> Crazy. I believe in giving up at *some* point. Hell. Even Debian dropped HURD.
[21:57] <dilomo> guys nice to chat with you
[21:57] <dilomo> I cant thank enough to psyke83 that helped me sooo much
[21:57] <dilomo> thank you again :)
[21:57] <psyke83> sure :)
[21:57] <dilomo> I have to go now
[21:57] <dilomo> bye
[21:57] <psyke83> _MMA_: which is why you'll never understand their blood sweat & tears :(
[21:58] <_MMA_> pfftt...
[21:58] <psyke83> bye
[21:58] <_MMA_> Have ids. ;)
[21:58] <_MMA_> *kids
[21:58] <_MMA_> Later Conn.
[21:58] <_MMA_> oh. he had to go.
[21:59] <psyke83> _MMA_, I think we can add an override for gedit, btw
[21:59] <_MMA_> if ya like. sure