[00:12] where do i find info on syscalls in ubuntu? mmap() and stuff? thx [00:12] does it come w/ os? [00:26] ckyle: man mmap [00:29] (after installing manpages-dev) [00:35] lamont, give a moment to talk about ports? [00:42] anyone interested in porting their .deb packages to OpenSolaris/Nexenta ? [00:42] we have bunch of SSH dev. accounts to ZFS zones on gnusolaris.org [00:45] erast, Nexenta seemed kinda dead last time I looked; is there an amd64 port yet? [00:46] yep [00:46] i think community growing [00:46] erast, I'd install it expect my trackpad doesn't work in Solaris [00:46] we ported Hardy Heron recently and released first alpha [00:46] erast, what are you using for infrastructure, dak I assume [00:47] * NCommander has played with Nextena and is interested [00:47] dpkg-buildpackage [00:47] dput [00:47] normal stuff [00:47] erast, I meant server side ;-) [00:48] debarchiver [00:48] erast, i.e., what handling the incoming and such [00:48] seriously? [00:48] I'm suprised it scales that well [00:48] why not [00:48] 95% of packages compiles as is [00:48] * NCommander used dak when he was hosting debian-68k testing [00:48] i.e. apt-get source -b [00:49] erast, you should be running a buildd to build all debs automatically [00:49] i think tim (rootard) working on new autobuilder for nexenta [00:49] its going to use ZFS and Zones [00:49] erast, I won't mind helping to set that up [00:49] I've run and adminned buildds before [00:50] that'd be great [00:50] Where's the dev channel? [00:50] #nexenta [00:51] but first, do you want to try to get SSH login and try to build couple of packages ? === beuno_ is now known as beuno [01:39] hello how can i install php 5.2 on ubuntu 6.06 [02:04] I think I need help === freeflyi1g is now known as freeflying [02:08] NCommander, I can help you. [02:09] cody-somerville, how? [02:15] cody-somerville: bah, so much for the GUI [02:17] cody-somerville: anyway, I need some SRU love [02:17] mcasadevall, okay. [02:17] bug #s? [02:17] cody-somerville: one bug, 11 packages [02:18] It's a transition [02:18] brb [02:18] I need to just reboot this machine [02:23] cody-somerville: I dunno what I did [02:23] But I seriously hosed this laptop [02:24] :| [02:25] cody-somerville: I'm right now deleting stuff, and then backing up [02:25] I reformat tonight [02:30] lol [02:33] * mcasadevall decides if he wants to install xubuntu/kubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu-stdio/mythbuntu [02:35] * mcasadevall backs up [02:40] ogra-Q1: Did you push your casper changes to a bzr branch somewhere? At least from what Colin has given me, they are not in trunk. I'd like to merge them into trunk, and would prefer to do it from another bzr branch if available, so that its logged in the bzr log, and not just in the debian changelog. [02:41] xubuntu, duh :P [02:42] RAOF: Pulseaudio 0.9.12 is in my PPA. Let me know if you still have those issues. If so, I'll pull latest alsa-lib git and package them up for you to test. [02:45] TheMuso: I'll test it this evening, thanks. [02:45] RAOF: np [02:46] New paprefs and pavucontrol will be uploaded to my PPA as well. [02:51] Oooh! Are they shiny? [02:51] Dunno really, but I think they are needed to work properly with the newer pulseaudio. [02:53] It'd probably be simple enough to whip up a lib32pulse, if you'd like me to. [02:54] RAOF: Would that solve the alsa-plugins needing ia32-libs issue? [02:54] Yes. [02:54] RAOF: Added to that, pulseaudio uses cdbs. [02:54] * RAOF cries [02:54] Ok. Perhaps it's _not_ easy enough to whip up a lib32pulse. [02:55] The other problem with a lib32 pulse, is all the extra module packages would have to be 32-bit as well. [02:55] The pulse-module-* ? [02:55] Yep. [02:56] Really? I'd've thought they'd only be interesting for the daemon. [02:56] We wouldn't be getting a 32bit daemon, right? [02:59] Anyway; I'll add "spend a couple of unrewarding hours hitting CDBS with a stick" at the bottom of my TODO === beuno_ is now known as beuno === beuno_ is now known as Guest88559 [03:09] heh ok [03:10] RAOF: Ah of course, you are right. === persia_ is now known as persia === persia_ is now known as persia [04:36] ScottK: hola === mcasadevall is now known as NCommander [04:39] NCommander: Heya. [04:40] ScottK: I have a fix for kdelibs on amd64 [04:40] ScottK: uploading it somewhere might a trick however, my X11 installation is somewhat hosed [04:40] NCommander: Can you just mail me the debdiff? [04:41] ScottK: how can I do that easily: mail scott@kitterman.com << *file* right? [04:41] (well, you can just wait also until when I reboot off the liveCD) [04:41] Yes. [04:41] Whichever. [04:42] ScottK: I tried emailing it, I'm not sure if it will work [04:42] ScottK: I confirmed it on amd64, and apachelogger confirmed on i386 [04:42] NCommander: I greylist, so it'll be a bit before I get it. [04:43] OK. [04:43] ScottK: won't work then, no return path on my email [04:45] NCommander: If it got to your mail server, it should be able to handle it. Greylisting is done during the SMTP dialogue, so that shouldn't matter. [04:46] ScottK: it is? [04:47] ScottK: Oh, interesting, then it should work I hope [04:47] Sure. [04:47] Its just you can't access my SMTP server from the net [04:47] I'm suprised on how affective grey listing was [04:47] You deliver to your MTA, your MTA talks to my MTA. My MTA says 450 come back later, and then later your MTA comes back and acceptes it. [04:48] As long as it can access mine, it works. [04:48] neat [04:51] * NCommander waits on his Xubuntu disc to finish burning [04:51] so ... slow .... [04:52] bbl [05:36] * calc bought a new car tonight :) === mcasadevall is now known as NCommander [05:42] which one? :) [05:42] which brand [05:42] 2009 Honda Fit (Jazz in europe) [05:42] nice :) [05:42] * avb is a bmw fan [05:42] * calc can't justify that high a payment ;-) [05:43] yeh, but it worth this moneys [05:43] mine is only 475/mo for 36mo [05:44] * NCommander hits his head repeatively on his desk [05:44] im highly satisfied with 2001 X5 and 94 325i [05:44] :) [05:44] * calc likes the bmw/mercedes [05:44] i've ridden in them in the past, very nicely built just a bit out of my price range at least for now [05:45] 325i convertible is owesome [05:45] plus i don't think i would want a toddler in one of those they would screw it up ;-) [05:45] i still love it [05:45] i have a 1yr old son [05:45] but in the city X5 is the best [05:45] it appears the fit gets around 42mpg for me, at least on the drive back home from the dealer, it was about 40mi away [05:46] man, dont tell me about a fuel :) [05:46] i prefere not to think about it [05:46] i'm pretty sure that has to be the best fuel economy for a car in the US that isn't hybrid [05:46] it not so hurts then :) [05:46] lol, ok [05:47] 13mpg .... [05:47] ouch [05:48] hey persia [05:48] NCommander: Hello. [05:49] persia, ever do something stupid and kill a lot of files by accident :-) [05:49] rm -rf ~ works ;-) [05:49] NCommander: Like half my home directory 150 minutes ago? [05:49] i've done that a few times i think [05:49] Well, my backup didn't properly write [05:49] It seems -devel having a data failure issue :-) [05:49] so I just blew away my entire HDD [05:49] NCommander: i could teach you how to use ZFS snapshots on home dirs - you gonna love it :-) [05:49] * avb investigated a problem with DRI with intel [05:50] erast, I'm not using opensolaris on a laptop [05:50] finaly seems i see a problem [05:50] I'm just smart enough to actually backup my SSH and GPG keys to my cell phone's flash device [05:50] Mesa 7.1 is a problem [05:50] and should the phone get lost [05:50] Its a five minute call to remotely wipe it [05:51] well, ZFS like a drug... once you tried it - you will not be comfortable with anything else again [05:51] seems first time i will do a rollback to ubuntu-1 and ubuntu+2 [05:51] erast, this won't have helped, I reparitioned the HDD [05:51] erast, I wanted to remove the old NTFS crud left behind by Vista [05:52] erast: one problem is that there is no zfs in linux [05:52] and solaris is... yuck :-\ [05:52] well there is - zfs on fuse [05:52] I actually like solaris [05:52] erast, the performance hit is unacceptable [05:52] solaris - sucks... nexenta - cool :-) [05:52] of course my experience with solaris was 2.6/7 so maybe its somewhat better now, it was horrid back then [05:53] At least my system decrufted now [05:53] i feel solaris is works like a shit on x96 [05:53] erast, you really should work towards supporting more than just the Ubuntu LTSs [05:53] x86 [05:53] Just my two cents [05:53] and also, their coreutils sux [05:53] completely [05:53] avb, BSD and IRIX are worse [05:53] * calc used solaris on sun sparc hardware [05:53] (well, FreeBSD does work in that respect, but NetBSD is worse) [05:54] i just reinstalled debian onto them after getting fed up with how useless they were :) [05:54] BSD ever works? :) [05:54] i thought that on firewalls only [05:54] * NCommander finishes building his pbuilder chroots [05:54] solaris didn't even have top installed by default [05:54] i was surprised at how little useful utilities came with it [05:54] and ps -ef [05:55] NCommander: may be one day this will happen, but for now we are going after LTS only, and as i said earlier nexenta makes sense for servers - on desktop opensolaris still sucks [05:55] i hate a time when i ought to work with solaris [05:55] i was probably spoiled by having used Debian before Solaris [05:55] and also from admin point of view sparc is not betten then intels [05:55] calc: consider nexenta, its ubuntu LTS... [05:56] maybe its cool to code for it, but in the rest it sucks [05:56] the userland at least [05:56] erast: are we getting speedstep, suspend to ram stuff there? :) [05:56] I just want my trackpad to work [05:56] and normal smp support [05:56] ? [05:56] nexenta doesn't work on Sun hardware, so why use it at all since there is already Ubuntu ;-) [05:56] My battery was detected when I ran it [05:56] we actually have it already in the latest builds [05:56] * calc no longer has sun hardware though [05:57] calc: who told you that? :-) [05:57] unfortunately how hard linux kernel sucks, its still the best in OSS world [05:57] we running datacenter of Thumpers x4500 [05:57] on nexenta [05:57] avb, having used freebsd maybe not [05:57] erast: nexenta.org says it runs on AMD/Intel 32/64 bit [05:57] the rest is just a joke [05:57] erast: doesn't mention sparc at all [05:57] erast: or i am blind :) [05:58] "Nexenta Operating System runs on Intel/AMD 32/64bit hardware and is distributed as a single installable CD." [05:58] NCommander: i did. this shit even cant run on all the laptops [05:58] you said - Sun hardware [05:58] boot sometimes just hands [05:58] im not telling about smp again [05:58] x4500 - is Sun hardware too, you know [05:58] which is a complete fault [05:58] erast: ah i mispoke, i meant real sun hardware UltraSparc ;-) [05:58] :) [05:58] well its a matter of resources... [05:59] * calc thinks Sun should just dump opensolaris and adopt a good userland like what nexenta appears to be [05:59] I actually compiled nexenta kernel for sparc - but haven't had enough time to package and bootstrap ISO [05:59] i wish to have a kernel clean like netbsd [05:59] calc: +1 [05:59] but with all features of linux [05:59] :) [05:59] erast, I can help with the bootstrapping [05:59] and with a gnu toolchain for sure [05:59] But I think I should help with your buildd situation first ;-) [06:00] NCommander: to generate ISO, we using nexenta-builder package, take a look [06:00] Well, I think you need to build the packages first ;-) [06:00] personally i think they should dump the kernel too for x86/amd64 and contribute to FLOSS properly, but that may be going a bit too far ;-) [06:00] NCommander: yes... a lot of missing dependencies in Hardy repo.. [06:00] * NCommander has his development toolchains reinstalled [06:00] :-) [06:01] and open up stuff like ZFS so linux can use it :) [06:01] now to figure out what else I need to reinstall [06:01] yeh [06:01] and fuck licensing bullshit [06:01] !ohmy [06:01] Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly. [06:01] calc: the problem with ZFS & Linux is that Linux "layers" needs to be totally redesigned [06:01] BSD can be used in GPL [06:02] cant [06:02] thats a joke [06:02] BSD can be used in GPL code [06:02] persia: sorry :) [06:02] GPL can't be used in BSD code [06:02] erast: well if the licensing was open, which aiui it isn't [06:02] Vger_: ZFS is BSD, not? [06:02] I'm not sure [06:02] huge portion of ZFS dual licensed GPL/CDDL [06:02] erast: aiui from reading a few months ago ZFS is patented to hell and not licensed so that it could be in the kernel in any case [06:02] ah [06:02] ok [06:02] I thought it was under Sun's open source license [06:02] anyway [06:02] erast: oh maybe they improved it since i read then [06:02] GRUB zfs module is GPLed [06:03] its realy terrible [06:03] Yes [06:03] all this licensing issues [06:03] erast: yea the GRUB bit is ok afaik, just not the fs driver itself [06:03] even free licenses cant be mixed [06:03] oh well i'll just wait for ext4 [06:03] what we can talk about the rest of them [06:03] Opensource has created its own restrictions that's more vile than proprietary code [06:03] its pretty much all you need [06:03] But it's our own fault. [06:03] avb: they can just not Sun's [06:03] For being dumb :( [06:03] And listening to Stallman [06:03] licensing proliferation is bad [06:03] * Hobbsee wonders if this is really related to ubuntu development? [06:04] all there really needs to be is BSD/LGPL/GPL :) [06:04] * calc shuts up since this is way off topic [06:04] This is an awesome topic! [06:04] Moar! [06:04] I would consider nexenta somewhat ontopic, it is an Ubuntu derivative [06:05] NCommander: by the same logic, we should provide support for things like medibuntu in #ubuntu, and that doesn't happen either. [06:05] NCommander: yeah, but CDDL vs. GPL vs. BSD debates - not really... [06:05] btw if anyone needs a new computer this is a pretty good deal: http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=209217089&adid=17653&dcaid=17653 [06:05] Vger_: more in #ubuntu-offtopic. [06:05] someone showed me it earlier today [06:05] What's the default font on Ubuntu for menu titles? [06:06] Not bad [06:06] heh [06:06] no i see why ubuntu is so slow :) [06:06] now [06:06] Slow? [06:06] quad core cpu, 6gb ram is not bad :) [06:07] because developers buy quad core computers and dont notice when it's slow ;) [06:07] lol [06:07] NCommander: whatever default maps to Sans (I think) [06:07] yeh, on mine brand new core2duo 1.6 its slow [06:07] NCommander: playing with fontconfig probably would tell you somehow [06:07] I thought the developers were too busy playing games on their new quad core computers to notice Ubuntu is slow [06:07] and cpu is always hot [06:07] its not about ubuntu [06:07] Well, I changed it, and now I don't know what it was ;-) [06:07] its about developers [06:07] * Hobbsee also, wonders how this is related to ubuntu development. [06:07] Ubuntu isn't slow on a quad core ;-) [06:08] :) auch [06:08] its better for me to go to offtopic [06:08] i'm going to upload new OOo whenever i get license go ahead from Sun [06:08] well obviously, we're going to make jaunty fast by requiring really expensive hardware [06:08] Stop starting things you can't finish! [06:08] hopefully tomorrow morning before the platform meeting [06:09] ok, i wonder how nexenta patches could be integrated with ubuntu, so we don't have to rebuild LTS each time it released? [06:09] pwnguin: fast boots with required SSD's ;-) [06:09] you know, ive got a couple years worth of bootcharts now [06:09] pwnguin, Ubuntu is going Windows Vista route? [06:09] pwnguin: little laptops cant be fast :) [06:09] its too bad they're stored in png [06:09] iirc my current laptop can boot Hardy in around 20s [06:09] by default? [06:09] I changed the bootup to load GDM first [06:10] So I can login and do things in the first 10 seconds [06:10] :p [06:10] pwnguin: yea, but i don't know if bootchart counts everything [06:10] pwnguin: iirc it was ~ 20s on bootchart [06:10] What command in ubuntu-dev-tools can grab things from a PPA easily [06:10] bootchart counts to gdm sleep by default [06:10] and its totaly unusable for next 40 seconds more :) [06:10] pwnguin: i have a fairly stock install though [06:10] Why does Ubuntu need to load up cups and all the other crap before GDM? [06:11] i have a c2d 1.7ghz 4gb ram laptop [06:11] Vger_: it might not actually be doing what you think it is, or otherwise it probably has a good reason [06:11] I've never been able to find a good reason for it [06:11] Vger_: we looked at boot time stuff in several sessions at UDS in May [06:12] i'm sure there will be a lot of them in Dec at Google UDS as well [06:12] the best job in intrepid is a new mail storage format [06:12] So much could be solved for bootup in Ubuntu [06:12] it stop leaking [06:12] Vger_: Then bring it up at UDS :-) [06:12] hey StevenK [06:12] * StevenK waves [06:12] that was pissing me off last 2 years [06:12] Like loading non-essential stuff in the background instead of waiting for it before you actually get to login and use the WM [06:13] Vger_: got a bootchart to show? [06:13] StevenK, might be a good topic :) [06:13] StevenK, KDElibs on amd64 was fixed at the cost of my home folder [06:13] Vger_: i'm pretty sure the stuff that is loaded before GDM generally needs to be, or you are reading the chart wrong [06:13] NCommander: kdelibs ate your ~? [06:13] NCommander: Yay? \-:? [06:13] Like what, postgresql and cups? [06:13] RAOF: I just uploaded some git fixes for alsa-lib into my PPA. Let me know if anything changes. [06:13] StevenK, no, the instantly finally caught up with me [06:13] Why does that need to be loaded up before gdm? [06:13] I only lost a few class notes, so I'm not so screwed [06:13] Vger_: postgresql isn't in official Ubuntu [06:13] NCommander: EPARSE [06:14] Vger_: so it probably hasn't been tweaked [06:14] er, insanity [06:14] Yes, but if you install it [06:14] It will add to your bootup time [06:14] Vger_: not sure about cups [06:14] TheMuso: Cool. I'll get to that in a couple of hours. [06:14] Vger_: well there are loads of things you can install from universe that will slow down boot most likely [06:14] Scott got the patch before the machine committed died [06:14] calc indeed [06:14] It shouldn't [06:14] But it does [06:14] Vger_: its completely controllable whether it starts at boot or not. [06:14] Vger_: i agree that this should be fixed, maybe make a point of involving MOTU to help with some of the work [06:15] StevenK, know any good todos? [06:15] but id argue postgresql should start at or near boot by default [06:15] NCommander: Things to do, or programs to manage a todo list? [06:15] pwnguin, yes it's controllable if you know how [06:15] Like I did [06:15] But most won't do it and complain Ubuntu boots up too slow [06:15] pwnguin: you could stick it towards S99 though [06:15] what palent do people install postgres but not know where the services menu is? [06:16] pwnguin: if it starts in 20s or 60s its not too big of a deal [06:16] planet even [06:16] StevenK, the former and later [06:16] NCommander: Oh, both? :-) [06:16] pwnguin: just because you can change it doesn't mean it shouldn't have logical defaults [06:16] pwnguin, surprisingly many [06:16] NCommander: I like Tasque for managing my todo list. [06:16] StevenK, yup [06:16] so i agree that all things that start on boot should have reasonable start up times to help keep boot time down but what those are for each package depends on what else uses them, etc [06:17] calc: when im running a server, postgresql at startup sounds lke a reasonable default [06:17] and upstart, i think, should help a lot in this case [06:17] And the gnome-do tasque plugin makes it even more awesoem! [06:17] once everything is converted over to using upstart scripts [06:17] i imagine upstart is going to be making a jump forward in jaunty [06:17] People are impatient that's for sure [06:17] RAOF: I'd like gnome-do more if it didn't leak like sieve [06:18] boot time is okay, the problem is productivity of a software [06:18] StevenK: The recent gtk-sharp upload should've fixed almost all the leaking. [06:18] terminal is loading like a second [06:18] StevenK: It wasn't our fault, honest! :P [06:18] RAOF: \o/ [06:18] thats ridiculus [06:18] RAOF: I've not installed gnome-do on my desktop [06:18] avb: is that a regression in 8.10? [06:18] nautilus... i even dont want to talk about this crap [06:18] StevenK: For those playing at home, gtk# used to leak a pixmap each time you loaded an icon from the theme. [06:18] avb: for me gnome-terminal is well under 1s load on 8.04 [06:19] calc: no, its a regression since gnome 2.0 :) [06:19] RAOF: The entire pixmap? [06:19] Yes [06:19] avb: maybe its a speed of computer issue? ) [06:19] :) [06:19] Blink [06:19] c2d 1.66 :) [06:19] RAOF: Almost sounds SRU-worthy [06:19] avb: i have a c2d 1.73 and its fast as i blink pretty much [06:19] StevenK, are you on an SRU team? [06:20] NCommander: Nope [06:20] certainly not slow enough to be annoying to me anyway [06:20] StevenK, or willing to roll roughly 12-14 packages to hardy-proposed? [06:20] (I can give you debdiffs) [06:20] unfortunately there is no better laptop then lenovo x61 in the world [06:20] in other case i will have it [06:20] :) [06:20] things that annoy me are things like nautilus screwing up file timestamps on copies (setting them to current time) [06:20] calc: try xterm :) [06:21] NCommander: Eek! [06:21] avb: loads in roughly the same time for me, gnome-terminal or xterm [06:21] I prefer the Fujitsu T2010 than the X61 tablet though :P [06:21] But I love my T61p [06:21] Runs linux nicely [06:21] calc: You know cp does that by default, right? [06:21] StevenK: yea and cp can do something else if you tell it to, nautilus can't [06:21] StevenK, is that a no? [06:21] calc: once u have g-t opened, its pretty fast :) [06:22] StevenK: Maybe; it's a tiny patch (basically telling the code generator that, yes, you get ownership of the Pixbuf returned from LoadIcon) [06:22] and no other file manager on other OSes do that braindead stuff either [06:22] NCommander: That's ... insanity [06:22]