[07:47] <qense> hello
[12:01] <mpt> "Get it while it's hot." -- Ubuntu 7.04 feature tour
[15:04] <newz2000> mpt: what's that?
[15:10] <mpt> newz2000, http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/704tour#head-d1c6a48a219c4ea353a5b0d90bc795bfd10fd176
[15:11] <newz2000> ah
[15:17] <mpt> Not that it matters much any more, but it's also confusing for all the links in what appears to be a table of contents to go off to wiki.ubuntu.com instead of going to the relevant part of the same page
[16:19] <thorwil> newz2000: regarding ubuntu.com vs ubuntu-nl.org, what about content negotiation?
[16:20] <Volans> thorwil: I think is just google that puts localized results before international ones
[16:20] <thorwil> i think the debian site does it. presenting the site in the preferred language of the user
[16:20] <newz2000> we do that for the start page
[16:21] <newz2000> we've chosen not to translate ubuntu.com but we're discussing an upcoming project of linking to localized sites in the header
[16:21] <Volans> for example in italian, if I search "ubuntu" in the google search of firefox the first 4 results are:
[16:21] <Volans> www.ubuntu-it.org/
[16:21] <Volans> www.ubuntu-it.org/index.php?page=Ottenere_Ubuntu   // equivalent to getubuntu and link directly the download page in the ubuntu.com site
[16:21] <Volans> www.ubuntu.com/
[16:21] <Volans> www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download
[16:22] <thorwil> newz2000: well, ok, linking to appropriate localized sites is the second best thing, i think :)
[16:23] <newz2000> thorwil: yeah, I think that would help satisfy the complaint of Erik's first tester who was upset that it was only in English
[16:24] <thorwil> newz2000: regarding the problems of users not understanding what server vs desktop means, i wonder if images that depict suitable environments for each would help
[16:24] <newz2000> good idea
[16:24] <Volans> newz2000: maybe we can make only the homepage translated and with automatic language recogniction where is explained that the site is in english and the relative localized site is XXX and the download page is YYY
[16:25] <newz2000> I doubt it
[16:26] <newz2000> we're constantly changing homepage graphics and needing to translate them would slow things down considerably
[16:26] <Volans> newz2000: I don't think a "translated" homepage stricty... but only a page that have 3-4 big things like buttons
[16:26] <Volans> to send the user to the right place
[16:27] <newz2000> well, my idea was to put a link near the top that says in your native language, "get help in Italian" or whatever.
[16:27] <newz2000> Then a localized page on ubuntu.com that explains the italian resources
[16:27] <Volans> oh yeah, good solution as well
[16:28] <Volans> and maybe the possibility do download without the english page
[16:28] <newz2000> yes, that would probably be a good candidate for locailzation
[16:28] <newz2000> since its hard for community members to maintain localized versions of that page
[16:29] <Volans> iirc we have a localized "copy" of that
[16:29] <Volans> the one I have linked above
[16:29] <Volans> but probably not all the locoteam have one
[16:29] <newz2000> yes, but it won't get udated automatically with new mirrors
[16:30] <Volans> sure
[16:32] <Volans> and as we have already discussed in the past, the choose of the mirror is a complicated and useless step for a normal user
[16:32] <newz2000> yes, I should see if the sysadmins will evaluate that geoip apache module
[16:33] <newz2000> maybe we can do some a/b testing for this release and implement it fully by the end of the year
[16:34] <thorwil> does it actually say "mirror"? something like "download location" or just "download from" should be easier to understand
[16:35] <newz2000> choose a location near you
[16:35] <Volans> newz2000: take a look at the download page od opensuse: http://software.opensuse.org/ there are some interesting trick (I prefer something a little more graphical)
[16:36]  * newz2000 wishes opera would stop being the default for clicking links in pidgin
[16:36] <newz2000> yuck
[16:36] <newz2000> there are some good things there
[16:37]  * newz2000 doesn't like the yellow
[16:38] <Volans> the fedora's one is so complicated... http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora there is a mixture of architechture, media (CD, DVD), torrent, Live...
[16:39] <qense> hello
[16:39] <newz2000> hi qense
[16:39] <Volans> hi qense
[16:40] <thorwil> hi qense
[16:41] <newz2000> I have an idea...
[16:41] <newz2000> reneable the js ajax based geoip
[16:42] <newz2000> set a reasonable timeout (750ms maybe)
[16:42] <newz2000> let php generate a list of the 10 fastest mirrors with good international bandwidth
[16:42] <newz2000> and store them in a js array sent to the page
[16:42] <newz2000> if the ajax fails to return in 750ms then it just randomly chooses one of the top 10 mirrors
[16:42] <newz2000> if the ajax does return it uses a local mirror
[16:43] <Volans> newz2000: what kind of geo control you want to make, on the IP, on the locale used in the browser, etc...
[16:43] <Volans> ?
[16:43] <newz2000> IP -> country
[16:44] <newz2000> for the download location select list
[16:44] <Volans> maybe excluding some strange ip like tor if possible
[16:44] <newz2000> that would allow us to ditch that list
[16:46] <newz2000> brb
[17:11] <newz2000> hi, would you guys do me a quick test?
[17:11] <newz2000> visit http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/intrepid/temp
[17:11] <Volans> sure
[17:11] <newz2000> hit shift+reload
[17:11] <newz2000> and tell me if shows your IP address
[17:12] <Volans> the first ip was not mine, after ctrl+r is changed and is mine
[17:12] <newz2000> cool
[17:13] <newz2000> anyone else confirm? especially if you use an ISP/network with a proxy
[17:13] <Volans> I have public Ip but use a router, so the ip on my card is 192.168.x.x
[17:13] <Volans> but no proxy
[17:13] <qense> the second is indeed mine
[17:13] <qense> no proxy
[17:13] <newz2000> I'm looking for the public ip
[17:14] <newz2000> cool
[17:14] <newz2000> I wonder where I can find some proxy users
[17:14]  * newz2000 knows one...
[17:15] <Volans> I can confirm with http://www.geekproxy.com
[17:15] <thorwil> show's my natting routers ip
[17:16] <Volans> but what is the trouble newz2000? is the ip of the connected user... or you have problem with the proxy-cache?
[17:16] <newz2000> my concern is, lets say you have an office with IPs of 10.0.1.xxx and a proxy server with 10.11.12.13
[17:16] <newz2000> (as the public IP)
[17:16] <newz2000> I want to ensure my code returns 10.11.12.13, not 10.0.1.xxx
[17:17] <newz2000> (kind of a bad example)
[17:17] <Volans> but is javascript or php?
[17:17] <newz2000> php
[17:17] <newz2000> javascript can't get a user's IP address
[17:17] <Volans> with ajax yes ;)
[17:18] <newz2000> that's what I'm testing here... the php code that returns the user's public ip address
[17:18] <newz2000> I want to ensure it works correctly even for users behind a proxy
[17:18] <qense> I do use a switch, but no proxy
[17:18] <Volans> newz2000: as I know you use a proxy-cache on ubuntu.com, right?
[17:18] <qense> we do have a proxy at school, i could test it by connecting to the webserver using rdp ;)
[17:19] <newz2000> qense: would you mind? that would be perfect
[17:19] <qense> ok
[17:19] <newz2000> Volans: right, this wouldn't be a problem if it werern't for the fact that ubuntu.com is behind two proxy servers. :-)
[17:20] <newz2000> so I get an array when I look at the forwarded_for header
[17:20] <Volans> In this case you have to use a more long code to be sure that is the user IP
[17:21] <Volans> if you want I have the code that SMF use (and I have patched) to work with the proxy-cache the sysadmins have put behind ubuntu-it on april
[17:21] <newz2000> here's what I did: http://pastebin.com/d661406a0
[17:23] <qense> stupid server, keeps bugging me with apache crash reports, even though its still running
[17:24] <Volans> this is the one SMF use (and I have patched a little): http://pastebin.com/de828868 note the array_reverse in the FORWARDED FOR section
[17:24] <qense> (my apologizes for ther lack of punctuation. typing is hard with one arm in a mitella, coding even harder)
[17:24] <Volans> when I print the variable I see: [HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR] => 87.21.x.x, 127.0.0.199
[17:25] <qense> the website renders horrible in IE6, bt
[17:25] <Volans> the first one (and not the last one) is my ip, while SMF would make the contrary
[17:25] <qense> BUG: can't read page content of main site in IE6
[17:25] <Volans> qense: javascript enabled?
[17:25] <newz2000> can't read it at all?
[17:26] <qense> the footer is halfway over the breadcrumbs
[17:26] <qense> im going to check if js is enbled
[17:26] <newz2000> hmm
[17:26] <newz2000> that's bad
[17:26]  * newz2000 bangs head on desk
[17:26] <qense> Why are options considered a tool by MS?
[17:27] <qense> or extra?
[17:27] <newz2000> Volans: that's far more complex because it needs to handle more corner cases than I do, but I think fundamentally the same (smf code)
[17:28] <Volans> yes, it cover more possibility and probably is more "safe" i something change in the proxy-cache architecture
[17:28] <qense> where is the javascript option in IE6?
[17:29] <Volans> also newz2000 it excludes all the private ip
[17:29] <Volans> 172, 192.168. 10, etc...
[17:29] <newz2000> well, I'm making an assumption that the last non-127... IP is the public ip address
[17:30] <newz2000> based on current server architecture
[17:31] <Volans> I think is better to exclude all reserved IPs... is simple and more safe ;)
[17:31] <Volans> I can confirm IE6 on XP virualized... the footer cover the content
[17:31] <Volans> but I can copy and paste in an editor
[17:31] <qense> newz2000: img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tmpdnp8.JPG
[17:31] <Volans> and see the ip :D
[17:31] <qense> tmpdn8.JPG*
[17:32] <qense> need to go now, dinner time
[17:32] <newz2000> I'm affrade to look
[17:32] <newz2000> thanks qense
[17:32] <qense> ill test again after dinner
[17:32] <qense> bye!
[17:33] <Volans> newz2000: on VBox I get the wrong IP: 217.123.200.31 -> 31.200.123.217.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer ck523187-a.dokku1.fr.home.nl.
[17:33] <newz2000> did you do a shift+reload?
[17:33] <Volans> yes many times and is alwais the same
[17:34] <newz2000> Volans: are you using IE? in that case I think it's ctrl+F5
[17:34]  * newz2000 strrts up vbox...
[17:34] <Volans> hitting www.whatismyip.com from VBox say the same IP that I see from the host
[17:34] <Volans> tried also ctrl+f5
[17:34] <Volans> same as above
[17:36] <newz2000> oh, bad news, it works for me in vbox. I hate that.
[17:37] <Volans> newz2000: also for me with oither browsers...
[17:37] <Volans> IE6 is the only one atm
[17:38] <Volans> and the first IP I see is a 7x something
[17:38] <newz2000> that's mine
[17:38] <newz2000> so its jst a cache problem
[17:39] <Volans> oh
[17:39] <Volans> it works now
[17:39] <Volans> server cache problem
[17:39] <newz2000> yeah
[17:40] <newz2000> ok, so based on our limited testing we have a solution that grabs the correct IP address
[17:42] <Volans> and you want to use the ip to make a geolocation?
[17:42] <newz2000> yes
[17:42] <Volans> making a little db where to save those?
[17:46] <newz2000> no, I don't need to save them, the geoip database uses a hash lookup table I can use to get the user's country
[17:46] <newz2000> so I just need to tell it the ip and it will tell me their country
[17:57] <qense> back
[17:59] <qense> woot! there is FF at the server!
[17:59] <Volans> qense: what do you mean?
[18:00] <qense> i cant test it with ie, since the site doesnt work there
[18:01] <qense> it seems to work from behind a proxy
[18:01] <qense> the firts ip was right, i even didnt have to reload
[18:04] <Volans> ok
[18:35] <Volans> I have to go now... bye bye
[18:38] <newz2000> qense: regarding IE, I can't reproduce nor could I see your screenshot
[18:39] <qense> it was img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tmpdn8.JPG , i provided a wrong link
[18:40] <qense> wrong link again
[18:42] <qense> i think ive lost the link
[18:42] <newz2000> no sweat
[18:42] <newz2000> I think the solution is the same regardless
[18:43] <qense> switch!
[18:43] <newz2000> I plan to migrate ubuntu.com to the same theme as https://shipit.ubuntu.com
[18:43] <newz2000> I've just got to take the time to do the drupal theme
[18:43] <qense> shitit has got a good theme
[18:43] <newz2000> he he
[18:44] <qense> oops xd
[18:44] <newz2000> I can't tell you how many times I've done that
[19:10] <qense> hello nand
[19:11] <nand> heya!
[19:13] <qense> how's the mailer configured at ideatorrent.org?
[19:14] <qense> i think that the crrent problems i have with the application form are caused by my own system
[19:15] <nand> well, it works (devel.ideatorrent.org sends mail)
[19:15] <nand> you should test locally
[19:16] <qense> i cant get postfix t work
[19:17] <qense> it does get to that stage though
[19:17] <qense> the real problem is the mailer
[19:17] <qense> sendmail was blocked by spamhaus.org, postfix just doesnt seem to work
[19:20] <nand> (I'll be back, dinner time)
[19:20] <qense> have a nice dinner!
[19:39] <nand> qense: you can use the code in brainstorm as an example
[19:39] <qense> it's working now
[19:39] <qense> :)(
[19:44] <qense> I didn't get the activation mail for the account at the devel version. Are you sure the mailer works?
[19:53] <nand> qense: I confirm it's working
[19:53] <nand> just got my replacement email from drupal
[19:54] <qense> ok, that's weird
[19:54] <qense> could you try if the application form works at the devel host too?
[20:00] <nand> qense: which form?
[20:00] <qense> the form you get when you press apply
[20:00] <qense> i made the poster of the first task uncontactable to test that
[20:01] <nand> I don't have a "apply" button here
[20:01] <qense> really?
[20:02] <qense> you are browsing another task than task 1, are you?
[20:02] <qense> and logged in?
[20:02] <nand> I *just* updated the bazaar branch
[20:02] <nand> So I guess you are not using http://ubuntu-wanted-devel.ideatorrent.org/
[20:02] <nand> *NOW* I get the apply button
[20:04] <qense> I finally got the activation mail
[20:04] <nand> me too
[20:29] <qense> the application form works!
[20:31] <qense> well, i'm going to shut down now, bye!
[21:06] <thorwil> newz2000: i have to run now, but just got this up: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/IntrepidCountdownBanners?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=tw_intrepid_countdown_05_spiral.png
[21:06] <thorwil> newz2000: the old ibex shape had to go because of possible copyright issues and a broken right horn
[21:07] <newz2000> :-)
[21:07] <newz2000> nice work
[21:07] <newz2000> I can't believe you've done all of those
[21:07] <thorwil> thanks!
[21:07] <thorwil> me neither ;)
[21:07] <thorwil> newz2000: take a look at the bottom for the last 2 columns
[21:09] <newz2000> what's different about the last two cols?
[21:09] <thorwil> newz2000: the 4th column, turquoise/blue is my personal favorite. tomorrow i would like to know which ones can be offered and whether you need another format
[21:09] <thorwil> newz2000: they get brighter towards the end, to support the sunrise idea
[21:10] <newz2000> ah
[21:10] <newz2000> I'll show it to a few others
[21:10] <newz2000> though they probably won't see it until tomorrow
[21:10] <thorwil> newz2000: oh dang! i just notice i forgot something in 4th column, 14 to 10 days
[21:11] <thorwil> the outer dots have the wrong color
[21:11] <thorwil> well, small fix tomorrow
[21:11] <newz2000> yeah, don't sweat it yet
[21:12] <thorwil> good night! :)
[21:28] <ryanakca> newz2000: d'you know of anybody else who could run bzr up for us?
[21:29] <jpds> I've already assigned poor n.g to the task.
[21:29] <newz2000> lamont may be able to, though its nearly the end of his day too
[21:30] <ryanakca> newz2000: okies, thanks :)