[00:00] <LaserJock> I'd like to try to centralize and condense the amount of "info" we have to be easily accessible
[00:03] <Lns> i agree
[00:03] <Lns> i have my own wiki page that tries to do that, maybe we can use that as a rough template of sorts
[00:04] <Lns>  http://lns.wikidot.com/referenceurls  is what i was most thinking of
[00:04] <Lns> like an index page of all relevant resources
[00:05] <LaserJock> definitely something like that
[00:06] <Lns> =)
[00:06] <Lns> the thing that's most frustrating to me is how to create a single hierarchy of finding WHERE to go...it's multidimensional
[00:07] <Lns> you almost need a search algorithm to be efficient
[00:07] <LaserJock> so I basically see 3 primary "areas" of documentation
[00:07] <LaserJock> 1) about Edubuntu - release notes, why you should use it, it's goals
[00:07] <LaserJock> 2) how to get help
[00:07] <LaserJock> 3) how to help/contribute
[00:08] <Lns> That sounds sane enough
[00:09] <LaserJock> so we could basically use one of those index pages for each of those areas
[00:09] <Lns> yeah
[00:10] <Lns> but the thing is, Xubuntu people, for example, won't look at Edubuntu for any of this
[00:10] <LaserJock> well, tbh, I don't want them too :-)
[00:10] <LaserJock> *to
[00:10] <Lns> But what about cross-distro collaboration on bugs in Gnome vs. ltsp for instance?
[00:11] <Lns> Edubuntu and Ubuntu both use gnome as their DE
[00:11] <LaserJock> well, ok, here's how I see it
[00:12] <LaserJock> if you try to make a "one-size-fits-all" index it will either be so details as to be unnavigable or so vague as to be unhelpful
[00:12] <Lns> yeah...that's why i mentioned the search thing above...not that i think that's a good solution, but i agree
[00:12] <LaserJock> what we want is for Edubuntu people to easily plug into Edubuntu resources
[00:12] <LaserJock> then people who connect groups do their work of getting things where they need to go
[00:13] <LaserJock> you leverage the human network to pull everything together
[00:13] <Lns> well we need to further distinctify (is that a word?) between edubuntu and ltsp in linux
[00:13] <LaserJock> there may be some of that needed
[00:13] <Lns> yea
[00:13] <LaserJock> because for a while there Edubuntu was LTSP upstream so they got tied together
[00:14] <LaserJock> but now we need to sort of pull them back apart
[00:14] <LaserJock> so Edubuntu isn't responsible for everything LTSP, and other distros feel free to contribute to the broader LTSP documentation and support
[00:15] <Lns> exactly
[00:16] <Lns> the links are too hard to find for "normal" people though, to get to the resources they need...i think a catch-all wiki would be a good place to start, that's just me though
[00:16] <Lns> i like the idea of the 1) 2) 3) top-level areas though
[00:17] <Lns> a filesystem-type drill-down way to get to information
[00:18] <LaserJock> well, except those are somewhat notorious for being only intuitive to the person who designed the hierarchy :-)
[00:18] <Lns> hehe
[00:18] <Lns> i guess that's true
[00:18] <Lns> man..this is hard
[00:18] <Lns> i almost wish ubuntu didn't have so many different sub-distros
[00:19] <LaserJock> "is that Networking -> Server -> Samba or Filesystems -> Network -> Samba"
[00:19] <LaserJock> well, don't think of it a sub-distros then :-)
[00:19] <Lns> yeah - it's too 2-dimensional
[00:19] <Lns> heh
[00:19] <Lns> we need a 3D space of areas
[00:19] <LaserJock> especially in Edubuntu where we're just an addon
[00:20] <Lns> exactly
[00:20] <LaserJock> there's really no particular reason to think of us a sub-distro
[00:20] <Lns> well i don't really anymore
[00:20] <LaserJock> maybe better to think of a Special Interest Group or something
[00:20] <Lns> but a lot of people still do, because edubuntu is the first "distro" (back then) that started making thin-client networks easy to deploy
[00:20] <Lns> it got stuck with the reputation ;)
[00:21] <LaserJock> well, we can do that too
[00:21] <LaserJock> that's the beauty of it, IMO, we can be a "distro" to some, "flavor" to others, "those weirdos that hate hard drives" to others ;-)
[00:21] <Lns> heh
[00:22] <Lns> but how to point those things to the single entity that is edubuntu
[00:22] <Lns> you almost need a switchboard operator
[00:22] <LaserJock> well, I think when it really comes down to it, nobody cares
[00:22] <Lns> i agree with that
[00:22] <LaserJock> they're using "something"
[00:22] <Lns> they are goal oriented
[00:22] <LaserJock> sometimes it has bugs
[00:23] <LaserJock> sometimes they need help using it
[00:23] <LaserJock> but yeah, they're just trying to do something
[00:23] <Lns> maybe that would be a better focus
[00:23] <Lns> on the goal, rather than the technology
[00:24] <Lns> seems more human
[00:24] <Lns> "I want education-related software and themes on my computer"
[00:24] <Lns> "I want thin-clients"
[00:25] <LaserJock> so ...
[00:25] <LaserJock> on my 3 index pages I'd group by those tasks/goals
[00:26] <Lns> mmk
[00:26] <LaserJock> let's try that out real quick
[00:26] <LaserJock> 1) What is Edubuntu?
[00:26] <Lns> you want me to do this on my wiki?
[00:26] <Lns> i actually can right now
[00:27] <LaserJock>   * educational OS for kids
[00:27] <LaserJock>   * thin-client server environment for educational settings
[00:27] <stgraber> oh, looks like interesting discussions here
[00:27] <LaserJock>   * educational content delivery platform
[00:27] <Lns> stgraber: feel free to chime in with your thoughts
[00:28] <LaserJock> 2) How can I get help?
[00:28] <LaserJock>   * Help for educational programs
[00:28] <LaserJock>   * Help for LTSP servers
[00:29] <LaserJock>   * Help for general issues
[00:29] <LaserJock> 3) How can I contribute/help?
[00:30] <LaserJock>   * General information - mailing lists, IRC, reporting a bug
[00:30] <LaserJock>   * Making LTSP better
[00:31] <LaserJock>   * Becoming a part of the Edubuntu team
[00:31] <LaserJock> hmm, well, that's what came off the top of my head anyway
[00:32] <Lns> it's a great start
[00:32] <Lns> let me whip up a page and put those in there
[00:32] <stgraber> * Packaging education packages ? (reporting new softwares)
[00:33] <LaserJock> yeah, I think that might be a good one
[00:35] <Lns> Ok, let's go back to the 3 main areas - i gave them more generic names, what do you think of "About", "Support", and "Contribute"
[00:36] <Lns> and i'll put descriptions in those names
[00:36] <LaserJock> hmmmm
[00:37] <Lns> maybe i'm getting off base
[00:38] <Lns> but if these are all going to point to the REAL resources (and not try to just create another fragmented information source), those might be good starting points
[00:40] <LaserJock> no, that's good, I just got a lightbulb in my head
[00:45] <Lns> I created as generic of a top-level as possible - i called it "Goal Digger"
[00:45] <Lns> so there's no way we will have to recreate things from the top
[00:45] <Lns> http://lns.wikidot.com/goal-digger
[00:46] <Lns> man...i want those [+] things to create a nice menu
[00:46] <Lns> but that even seems too 2-dimensional
[00:47] <Lns> i'd love to create something that taps into all of the other menus and creates symlink type things
[00:47] <Lns> but that's the hierarchy of the wiki itself probably
[00:47] <Lns> (sorry talking to myself kinda)
[00:54] <Lns> ok, i created a new wiki all together for this, anyone can edit it (can't on the other one i posted)
[00:54] <Lns> http://goaldigger.wikidot.com/start
[00:56] <Lns> I need to leave, but why don't we keep this URL and start adding web page addresses, IRC resources, mailing list URLs, etc. to it?
[00:57] <Lns> I'll be back tomorrow and maybe we can all talk about it more
[00:57] <LaserJock> Lns: in a little bit I think I'll have something on edubuntu.org
[00:57] <Lns> LaserJock: ok
[00:58] <LaserJock> I thought, hmm, why not just rip of the nice work the ubuntu.com webmaster have done :-)
[00:58] <Lns> LaserJock: might as well :)
[00:58] <LaserJock> so I'm taking http://www.ubuntu.com/community
[00:58] <LaserJock> and remolding it into our About, Support, Contribute
[00:58] <LaserJock> but I'm going to add Governance on there
[00:59] <Lns> ok
[01:01] <Lns> alright i'm outtie
[01:02] <Lns> let's get back on this tomorrow if possible... ping me if possible, let's keep the ideas flowing
[01:02] <Lns> i'll try and get back here asap though
[01:06] <LaserJock> stgraber: still around?
[01:24] <stgraber> LaserJock: yep
[01:27] <LaserJock> stgraber: have a look at http://www.edubuntu.org/node/50
[01:27] <stgraber> LaserJock: access denied
[01:27] <LaserJock> stgraber: did you log in?
[01:27] <LaserJock> can you log in?
[01:28] <stgraber> LaserJock: yeah
[01:28] <stgraber> I'm logged in
[01:28] <LaserJock> and still nothing?
[01:28] <stgraber> but I'm not sure I have much right on the website actually
[01:28] <LaserJock> stgraber: try it now
[01:29] <stgraber> ok, it worked this time
[01:30] <LaserJock> I need icons for the top and to tweak the other section for Edubuntu
[01:30] <LaserJock> but I think it might make a good landing spot
[01:30] <stgraber> yes and the header is broken on that page
[01:31] <LaserJock> yeah, I don't know why, not sure if it's something I did (don't know why that'd happen) or not
[01:34] <stgraber> the page doesn't validate, some non-closed tag it looks like
[01:34] <stgraber> (according to validator.w3.org)
[01:37] <LaserJock> stgraber: ok fixed
[01:38] <stgraber> yeah, looks good now. I like the way that page is done
[04:03] <sbalneav> Evenin all
[04:03] <HedgeMage> hi, sbalneav
[04:08] <sbalneav> Evening HedgeMage
[04:08] <HedgeMage> how are you tonight?
[04:09] <sbalneav> I'm doin' allright, as the song says :)
[04:09] <HedgeMage> :)
[04:15] <sbalneav> I upgraded my CPU and Ram yesterday, so now I have a CPU that can do full VT, and I can play around with qemu/kvm
[04:16] <HedgeMage> cool
[06:23] <firewall_03> I am having trouble getting my wifi card to work with 7.04 its a Dlink Dwl-G650, and I have read through a lot of the docs ubuntus page
[10:30] <awilkins> I think you guys underestimate the annoyance of not having a LiveCD ; any chance of a LiveDVD image (I know that edubuntu adds around 430MB)
[10:30] <awilkins> Would it be reasonably easy to generate one?
[14:39] <sbalneav> Morning all
[14:42] <ogra> morning s!
[14:42] <ogra> :)
[14:51] <Voelund> Hey guys!
[14:52] <Voelund> I got a problem with GnomePanel! any pro that got some time?
[14:54] <Nubae> Voelund: what's the problem?
[14:55] <Voelund> :Nubae:  Well When i start my system gnomepanel doesnt work so i only see my desktop and no Over and under panels are showing.
[14:56] <Voelund> So im on in Failsafe Gnome
[14:56] <Voelund> then it works
[14:56] <Voelund> My Update download tool isnt working either, but ill fix that later.
[14:57] <Voelund> Im not so good on the terminal, any command i can use to repair Gnome?
[14:59] <sbalneav> Simplest way to do that would be to log in as yourself on a text screen
[14:59] <sbalneav> and type the following command:
[14:59] <sbalneav> gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/panel
[14:59] <sbalneav> That will reset panel configs back to the default
[15:00] <sbalneav> log in again on the console, and you should have the "default" Ubuntu panel config.
[15:00] <Voelund> okay, ill try that
[15:02] <Voelund> shouldnt i do that in root?
[15:03] <Voelund> Ill try relogg then. brb
[15:03] <Voelund> ill tell you how it went
[18:17] <LaserJock> Lns: around?
[18:32] <Lns> LaserJock: just got in
[18:32] <Lns> What's up?
[18:35] <LaserJock> Lns: http://edubuntu.org/node/50
[18:36] <Lns> LaserJock: nice! =)
[18:36] <Lns> looks strangely familiar ;)
[18:36] <LaserJock> yeah
[18:37] <LaserJock> it's not fully "edubuntuized" yet
[18:37] <Lns> yeah, great start though
[18:37] <LaserJock> but I think it might make a good "landing spot" for people
[18:37] <Lns> most definitely
[18:37] <Lns> Do we want to keep this focussed on *buntu ? Or should we incorporate other distros?
[18:39] <LaserJock> I want it focused on Edubuntu specifically
[18:39] <Lns> ok - so the educational apps specifically, or LTSP resources as well?
[18:39] <LaserJock> and then some place like ltsp.org could then pull the distros together
[18:39] <Lns> gotcha
[18:40] <Lns> I'd like to get in contact with the maintainers of ltsp.org regarding a revamp if possible
[18:40] <Lns> it would be the sensible 'hub' for all things ltsp
[18:40] <Lns> obviously heh
[18:41] <LaserJock> well, sometimes the most obvious places don't end up being where things are at, for one reason or another
[18:41] <Lns> yeah
[18:41] <Lns> like whitehouse.com ;)
[18:41] <LaserJock> haha
[18:41] <Lns> LaserJock: Also, have you checked out schoolforge.net ? That might be some people we can collaborate with
[18:41] <Lns> Last night I was thinking about starting a non-profit regarding FOSS in education and other places, but they seem to have the ball rolling already
[18:42] <Lns> It would be fun to see how much momentum we can get regarding consolidating all of this information
[18:45] <Nubae> Lns: I've incorporated some of what you put in your getting started pdf into the official ltsp documentation
[18:45] <Lns> Nubae: oh wow
[18:45] <Lns> :)
[18:45] <Lns> thank you!
[18:46] <Lns> I wasn't sure if it was good enough to put in something like that heh
[18:46] <Nubae> misbehaving processes, user management
[18:46] <Lns> awesome
[18:46] <Nubae> sure it was :-) and thankyou
[18:47] <Lns> One thing you might want to add, well..actually i should file a bug, is that KUser is flawed when run from Gnome - you have to modify the .desktop file to run "gksudo kuser" instead of the default exec= line
[18:47] <Lns> otherwise it doesn't elevate your privs correctly and won't work
[18:48] <LaserJock> Lns: why are you using kuser?
[18:48] <Lns> LaserJock: Mainly because there are sorting/searching issues with gnome-users-admin
[18:48] <Lns> (it doesn't work)
[18:48] <LaserJock> perhaps we should fix that
[18:48] <Lns> There's a filed bug already
[18:49] <Lns> lemme dig it up
[18:49] <Lns> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/259163
[18:49] <LaserJock> while I appreciate the constraints school admins are under, etc. people are waaaaay too hack-happy in Edubuntu :-)
[18:50] <Lns> LaserJock: what do you mean?
[18:50] <LaserJock> I mean, I've never seen a community so eager for nasty hacks, workarounds, or ditching programs
[18:51] <LaserJock> I understand the reasons why, but it's really not helpful for developers
[18:51] <Lns> I agree
[18:52] <Lns> I see that is a big problem for the long-term acceptance of edubuntu
[18:52] <Lns> people need things to work, but these hacks break upgrades and just cause fragmentation
[18:52] <LaserJock> ok, so this bug is a good point
[18:52] <sbalneav> LaserJock: hey hey
[18:53] <LaserJock> you've filed the bug not against ltsp, that's good
[18:53] <LaserJock> *but* Edubuntu won't know about it at all
[18:53] <LaserJock> perhaps we should start either using a tag or subscribing to these bugs
[18:53] <LaserJock> sbalneav: morning
[18:53] <Lns> LaserJock: what about triaging? would that work in this case?
[18:54] <LaserJock> well, but we have to know the bugs exist first
[18:54]  * Lns is still learning about the bug proces
[18:54] <Lns> s*
[18:54] <Lns> hmm
[18:54] <Lns> you know what i've seen before, which i'm not sure is present or not in LP, but in Mozilla bugzilla, is a default e-mail list whenever a bug is created
[18:54] <LaserJock> so the problem is we have a "radar" ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs ) but if a bug doesn't get on the radar we're not going to know about it
[18:55] <Lns> "Bug e-mail sent to foo@foo, bar@bar, etc"
[18:55] <sbalneav> LaserJock: So, see the post about getting the DebuggingLTSP page as our central point for "bugs that affect LTSP deployments"?
[18:55] <LaserJock> right, well, Edubuntu isn't going to subscribe to *every* bug in Ubuntu
[18:55] <Lns> LaserJock: right - well critical, default packages like this do effect all *buntus
[18:55] <LaserJock> sbalneav: briefly (trying to get some research done this morning), did you create that page?
[18:56] <LaserJock> Lns: right, but right now there are 200 open bugs on the package you filed that bug against
[18:56] <Lns> wow
[18:56] <Lns> that's...good? :p
[18:56] <LaserJock> Lns: having an edubuntu developer know it's there so they can either 1) fix it or 2) push it forward is important
[18:57] <LaserJock> so we have 2 good options, tagging and subscribing
[18:57] <LaserJock> Lns: the kernel has ~3500 open bugs :-)
[18:58] <Lns> LaserJock: well...a kernel vs. a user admin gui... a bit different. Of course IANAP so i'll shut up ;)
[18:58] <LaserJock> they are different, but people still have to look at them
[18:58] <Lns> But that particular bug has been present for a loooong time..i was just surprised that it wasn't reported earlier than i did
[18:58] <LaserJock> Ubuntu right now has ~48k bugs open
[18:59] <LaserJock> we need to be able to get Edubuntu people's bugs fixed in all that
[18:59] <LaserJock> 48k bugs and < 200 developers
[18:59] <sbalneav> LaserJock: No, it was already there, but very sparsly filled.  I figure rather than a new page, we could expand that one.
[18:59] <Lns> Well I have some good feedback from my site techs regarding issues (they love to complain about everything ;) ) so I can always somehow report them back here
[18:59] <Lns> probably on a schedule or something
[19:00] <Lns> Is there a meeting scheudle for simply reporting issues with Edubuntu?
[19:00] <LaserJock> sbalneav: ok good, I think that's a *perfect* place to tie into the existing QA work
[19:00] <LaserJock> Lns: no, that's generally not productive
[19:01] <Lns> ok
[19:01] <Lns> so just tagging edubuntu bugsquad to filing my bugs will probably suffice
[19:01] <LaserJock> complaints are almost always too general to do much with, and people just go around and around
[19:02] <LaserJock> it might be helpful for people to vent
[19:02] <LaserJock> but I'd rather they vent in the direction of LP so we can do something about it
[19:02] <Lns> LaserJock: oh no, i agree - I can translate those complaints into bug reports and get us informed on them though - because, unfortunately, 90% of the complaints  I get are actually bug-related
[19:03] <LaserJock> sure, the more bug reports the better
[19:03]  * Lns just joined Edubuntu bugsquad
[19:03] <LaserJock> ogra: you have a quick second?
[19:06] <LaserJock> sbalneav: do you have any feeling about how non-ltsp bugs should get on the Edubuntu radar?
[19:07] <LaserJock> my feeling is subscribing is the best way to go, although tags are a bit easier to do
[19:07] <LaserJock> Lns: dude, your first name is Jordan?
[19:07] <Lns> yes
[19:08] <LaserJock> cool, so is mine
[19:08] <Lns> oh wow hehe!
[19:08] <LaserJock> my wife always tells me it's a girls name :-)
[19:09] <Lns> so you're probably Mantha on the lists?
[19:09] <Lns> haha... it's both dammit!
[19:09] <Lns> It's definitely more masculine than "Jordina" haha
[19:10] <Lns> which a friend of mine loves to call me...hate that guy :p
[19:10] <LaserJock> lol
[19:11] <LaserJock> well, I live in city with fairly large hispanic population so I'm usually Jorge
[19:12] <Lns> hahaha.. i've never been called that..i live in northern california, which also has a good hispanic population.. i kinda like that though
[19:12] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Well, I'm perfectly happy to subscribe to them as a developer, but I'm just one guy.  What we need is some end-user agitation to "bump up the priority" on those bugs, and get them taken seriously.
[19:13] <sbalneav> That was why I thought the wiki page with the pointers TO the bugs we're targetting might be a good way to pull in the community to add their voice to the mix.
[19:13] <LaserJock> Lns: where do you live??
[19:13] <Lns> sbalneav: I had started to do that on my own wiki (pointing to bugs) - it seemed, at least to me, to be a great help and an easy way to keep up to date
[19:14] <Lns> LaserJock: About 1hr north of San Francisco
[19:14] <LaserJock> sbalneav: right, but from my perspective I need them on my radar so that I can "pimp your bug" ;-)
[19:14] <LaserJock> Lns: funny, I'm in Reno
[19:14] <Lns> LaserJock: oh wow!
[19:14] <Lns> I'm in Santa Rosa
[19:15] <LaserJock> oh, I bet it's nice there
[19:15] <Lns> LaserJock: you know what, "Pimp my bug" would be an awesome domain for bug collaboration :p
[19:15] <Lns> It's ok... great mexican food :)
[19:16] <Lns> it's been hot as hell though.. how's it out there? My mom was once considering moving to Reno, she liked it a lot up there
[19:16] <LaserJock> Lns: you been to Reno, other than Lake Tahoe it's a desert
[19:16] <sbalneav> LaserJock: yeah, so subcribining will fix that I think.
[19:16] <sbalneav> As for pimping my bugs, I want bling and pretty things that spin.
[19:16] <Lns> I haven't even been to LT since I was a kid
[19:16] <sbalneav> Oooh, and a boss sound system
[19:17] <Lns> LOL
[19:17] <sbalneav> And hydraulics
[19:17] <LaserJock> "dude, look at the grill on that bug, that's haaawt!"
[19:17] <Lns> We should pool in for a LaunchPad ride
[19:17]  * sbalneav imagines LaserJock as X-Hibit
[19:18]  * sbalneav makes gang signs with his hands
[19:18] <sbalneav> Did I ever tell you I had plans to start up my own Rap group?
[19:18] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't think I have enough hair left for corn-rows :-)
[19:18] <Lns> careful sbalneav ...there might be some Redhat members in here ;)
[19:18] <sbalneav> I was gonna call it "Plain White Rapper"
[19:18] <sbalneav> badum-bum
[19:18] <Lns> ...
[19:18]  * Lns walks away slowly
[19:19]  * LaserJock just about falls out of his chair imaging that
[19:19] <LaserJock> *imagining
[19:19] <LaserJock> sbalneav: perhaps LTSP needs an equivalent of that "Kill -9" song ;-)
[19:20] <sbalneav> sudo pimp my bugs
[19:20] <sbalneav> Oh, the fun we have :)
[19:20]  * Lns goes to apt-get install pimp
[19:20] <LaserJock> dude, it'd turn bug #s into ASCII art :-)
[19:20] <LaserJock> with a gold chain
[19:20] <Lns> oh man
[19:20] <sbalneav>  "
[19:21] <sbalneav>  o<
[19:21] <sbalneav>  "
[19:21] <sbalneav> What wasn't a very good bug
[19:21] <sbalneav> Sorry, That
[19:21] <LaserJock> lol
[19:21] <Lns> "ASCii stupid question, get a stupid ANSi"
[19:21] <sbalneav> lol
[19:21] <sbalneav> hmm
[19:21]  * Lns misses the BBS days
[19:22] <Goosemoose> when writing a preseed file: d-i preseed/late_command string wget http://10.0.2.131/post_install_tasks && chmod +x ./post_install_tasks && ./post_install_tasks returns 'failed with exit code 127'. but if i run it on the machine after install it works fine
[19:22] <Goosemoose> any idea what i need to change?
[19:23] <sbalneav> Hmm, not sure.
[19:23] <LaserJock> Goosemoose: have you tried talking to #ubuntu?
[19:23] <LaserJock> preseed issues should be non-Edubuntu specific and you might get more exposure
[19:24] <Goosemoose> LaserJock, yes i tried there and got no response
[19:24] <Goosemoose> tried ubuntu-server but its dead
[19:25] <LaserJock> hmm
[19:27] <sbalneav> Goosemoose: Can you tell where it's failing at?  For instance: If you shorten it to just the wget, does the file come down?
[19:28] <sbalneav> Wonder if this might be an issue?
[19:28] <sbalneav> http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-boot@lists.debian.org/msg100804.html
[19:28] <sbalneav> They seem to indicate creating a udeb, then putting the script in that
[19:32] <Goosemoose> the wget works fine
[19:32] <Goosemoose> no error returned
[19:32] <Goosemoose> so it has to be the part after
[19:32] <Goosemoose> but if i type it on the command line it works fine
[19:33] <Goosemoose> this isn't an interactive script though
[19:33] <Goosemoose> it just joins the domain
[19:37] <sbalneav> Does it produce output?
[19:38] <sbalneav> I wonder if it doesn't like any output produced. Maybe ./post_install_tasks returns > /dev/null 2>&1
[19:43] <Goosemoose> might be
[19:43] <Goosemoose> hmm
[19:55] <jimmy_birer> hi
[19:56] <LaserJock> hello
[20:17] <sbalneav> "I expect the -devel list to pick up soonish"
[20:17] <sbalneav> Should be my new .signature.
[20:17]  * Lns sees that just communicating with the community is a full-time job ;)
[20:17] <sbalneav> Well, this is it.
[20:18] <sbalneav> I'm at my full-time job, frantically trying to do my work I get paid for, PLUS answer emails, PLUS monitor the IRC channel.
[20:18] <LaserJock> so true
[20:18] <LaserJock> I'm preparing to teach lab, trying to write a journal article and dissertation, work on edubuntu.org ...
[20:19] <Lns> Im trying to stay afloat with my own business, support an employee, and pay my bills...along with this :)
[20:19] <LaserJock> yep, such is life in FLOSS much of the time
[20:20]  * Lns is proud to be considered part of the OSS community
[20:21] <jimmy_birer> :d
[20:21] <jimmy_birer> :d
[20:21] <Lns> I would recommend a stress reliever ... I just got this from Thinkgeek..I can't wait for it to arrive. http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/cubegoodies/922f/
[20:22] <jimmy_birer> edubuntu system requirements?
[20:22] <jimmy_birer> i have 8 MB of ram
[20:22] <jimmy_birer> :D
[20:23] <LaserJock> ... okaaay
[20:23] <Lns> wow...was that kinda like a doorbell ditch?
[20:24] <sbalneav> I was gonna tell him that 8MB of ram was a real Kickass DOS 3.3 system
[20:24] <LaserJock> at least it wasn't a flaming paper bag ;-)
[20:24] <Lns> heh
[20:25] <Lns> SO... anyone have any comment on this Firefox 3.01 issue? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=453704
[20:26] <johnny> never seen it
[20:26] <johnny> no firefox errors here..
[20:26] <Lns> johnny: how many users do you have on at the same time?
[20:26] <Lns> I haven't seen it at my office, but there are only 2 TCs
[20:26] <johnny> 4 :)
[20:26] <Lns> hehe
[20:26] <johnny> so.. >3 :)
[20:27] <Lns> well it's an estimation
[20:27] <Lns> and in my situation about 35 users will be logging on, all at once
[20:27] <johnny> i really don't see how it would be a problem..
[20:27] <johnny> slowness maybe, but not "firefox is already running"
[20:27] <Lns> Right...i agree, it's strange.
[20:27] <johnny> that problem disappeared for me
[20:27] <johnny> after firefox 3
[20:28] <Lns> But it's definitely present at 7 of my sites
[20:28] <Lns> johnny: well it actually started happening for me after upgrading to Hardy
[20:28] <Lns> Gutsy worked great in Firefox (minus the whole pixmap issue)
[20:29] <Lns> But this issue is causing teachers and labtechs to revert to Windows 2000 :(
[20:29] <Lns> They're starting to hate the "new Linux system" with a passion
[20:30] <johnny> i had the opposite
[20:30] <Lns> Well maybe it's safe to say that the problem occurs when more than 10 users log on simultaneously
[20:30] <johnny> i had the "firefox is already running" on gutsy for every user
[20:30] <johnny> even just my 4
[20:31] <Lns> The thing is, with mine, that error starts cropping up after ~3-5 minutes of lag-time after trying to launch Firefox.
[20:31] <johnny> switch from firefox to seamonkey maybe?
[20:31] <Lns> Some students will see the "Launching Firefox" panel tab dissapear after that amount of time, and when they try again, it will spew the error.
[20:32] <Lns> johnny: that's not a good idea for me.
[20:33] <Lns> And really, switching software because there's an issue will never get the issue resolved for others.
[20:33] <Lns> Which is extremely counterproductive for the community.
[20:33] <johnny> sure.. but it'll get your folks working
[20:33] <johnny> and prove what the issue is
[20:34] <johnny> especially since they should both be based on xulrunner
[20:37] <Lns> I'll try seamonkey out myself... i was thinking of epiphany as a temporary solution, but the thing is, i will need java/flash as they require it for typing programs and ciriculums
[20:38] <johnny> flash is still going to be a problem
[20:38] <johnny> until you can run it locally
[20:38] <Lns> yeah - and java it looks like too
[20:39] <Lns> so....no go for that
[20:39] <johnny> running it locally seems feasible these days.. with newer ssh
[20:39] <johnny> yay..
[20:39] <Lns> I'd rather just fix my issue than try a time consuming workaround ;)
[20:40] <johnny> sounds like fixing your issue is going to be time consuming
[20:40] <Lns> it has been
[20:40] <johnny> perhaps even more so
[20:40] <Lns> i'd still rather spend my time on fixing it
[20:40] <johnny> flash in itself is broken
[20:40] <Lns> ugh...flash is fine johnny :) it's just the launching of firefox that's my issue
[20:41] <johnny> i have problems with flash. damn thing eats up all the cpu
[20:41] <johnny> had to kill it
[20:41] <Lns> sorry :) works great for me, even with 35 users on it
[20:41] <Lns> what version you using?
[20:41] <johnny> whatever is in ubuntu
[20:41] <johnny> newest
[20:42] <Lns> what's your server hardware? what's the sites you're going to?
[20:43] <johnny> i don't pay attention to what folks are doing on the pcs really
[20:43] <johnny> i just know what i see in the process list
[20:43] <johnny> it's just a standard dual core with 2gb ram
[20:43] <johnny> not enterprise grade of any sort
[20:43] <Lns> johnny: you're running a small inet cafe right?
[20:43] <johnny> being that i only have 4 terminals
[20:43] <johnny> but it does run the point of sale system too
[20:43] <johnny> and play music
[20:44] <Lns> k
[20:44] <Lns> well what i've always done is manually drop the flash plugin in /usr/share/firefox-3.0/plugins instead of using the ubuntu packages
[20:44] <Lns> since i used to have issues, this is the best/easiest way to upgrade from adobe anyway, imho
[20:45] <Lns> johnny: you're using flashplugin-nonfree?
[20:45] <johnny> i was
[20:45] <johnny> we don't have sound anyways
[20:45] <johnny> so it's not that big of a deal
[20:46] <Lns> ok.. :p
[20:46] <Lns> so you just wanted to vent, eh?
[20:46] <Lns> hehe
[20:46] <johnny> irritated at adobe
[20:48] <Lns> join the club! :p
[20:51] <Lns> So it looks like gnome-watchdog is cleaning up pretty well at my test-sites
[20:51] <johnny> my folks never logout, so i haven't bothered with it
[20:51] <johnny> i just leave em up all day
[20:51] <johnny> and then run a script
[20:52] <johnny> at the end of the day
[20:52] <Lns> mainly gnome-panel, gconfd-2, bonobo-activati
[20:52] <Lns> johnny: a script to do what?
[20:52] <johnny> a loop on all members of group terminal
[20:52] <johnny> terminals*
[20:53] <johnny> pkill -u $user
[20:53] <johnny> umount /home/$user/.gvfs
[20:53] <johnny>  copy server keys to /home/$user
[20:53] <sbalneav> Is anyone else getting emails from Nicholas Kendell everytime they post to edubuntu-users?
[20:53] <johnny> oh.. forgot the rm -rf /home/$users/.
[20:54] <johnny> before the server key copying
[20:54] <johnny> that runs on a cron every night
[20:54] <johnny> that way when folks close down the store
[20:54] <johnny> they don'th ave to remember to logout
[20:54] <johnny> just power em off
[20:56] <johnny>  gvfs irritates me
[20:56] <johnny> when it doesn't let go when killed
[20:56] <johnny> lsof always complians
[20:56] <johnny> :(
[20:58] <Lns> sbalneav: yes i am
[20:58] <sbalneav> ok
[20:58] <sbalneav> I'll give it a couple of days.  If it doesn't stop, I'll contact the list admin.
[20:59] <Lns> cool
[21:09] <johnny> transport endpoint not connected..
[21:09]  * johnny kicks it 
[22:01] <DrX> anyone know of a good FREE cross platform (lin&win) email client that, unlike Thunderbird, has no database size limit, or at least a larger than 6GB limit?
[22:02] <johnny> i didn't know it had a limit
[22:03] <johnny> you're in the wrong channel tho.. try something more general
[22:03] <johnny> i wonder if claws  is cross platform..
[22:05] <DrX> y, thunderbird 2 has a nasty 4.81GB database size limit
[22:06] <johnny> what error does it say?
[22:06] <johnny> in case i run into that..
[22:06] <johnny> i use imap for mail anyways
[22:07] <sbalneav> Yeah, same here.
[22:07] <Goosemoose> i have one screen that pops up when doing preseed pxe install that says the 'selected device already contains logical volumes'. I thought that this would take care of it, but it doesn't: d-i partman-auto/purge_lvm_from_device boolean true
[22:07] <sbalneav> Personally, I'd say if you've got more than 4 gigs of mail in one folder, you need some sub folders.
[22:07] <Goosemoose> any idea what im missing?
[22:07] <Goosemoose> no ones in the ubuntu-server room
[22:08] <DrX> no,it's the whole database, not 1 folder
[22:08] <johnny> where did you find out about this limit?
[22:09] <DrX> ran into it, looked it up, it's a fact, man
[22:11] <sbalneav> I've never run into it myself.
[22:11] <sbalneav> But then again, I mostly use mutt
[22:11] <DrX> oh, it hurts, it hurts
[22:11] <DrX> that work in WIN?
[22:11] <sbalneav> No idea, I haven't used windows in a long time.
[22:12] <sbalneav> mutt's a text based client
[22:12] <sbalneav> runs on the console or in a xterm
[22:12] <sbalneav> might run under cygwin or the like.
[22:16] <sbalneav> DrX: According to this, looks like you can: http://www.geocities.com/win32mutt/win32.html
[22:16] <sbalneav> Of course, it's not a graphical mail reader.
[22:19] <sbalneav> DrX: "There is no known limit on the number of folders. The maximum size of a folder is 4GB unless the file system limits the maximum file size to a lower value."
[22:21] <sbalneav> So, it's not total, just 4 gig per folder.  Could you split up some folders?  If you gave us a clue as to why you have so much data, we might be able to suggest something else.
[22:22] <sbalneav> Goosemoose: Did piping to /dev/null fix the other problem?
[22:22] <DrX> i'm going to try that, but I think it's 4GB per account, not folder
[22:23] <Goosemoose> sbalneav, it worked on testing from the terminal i havent tried reimaging first
[22:23] <sbalneav> Not according to the Limits page I read on the knowledge base.
[22:23] <Goosemoose> i wanted to find the other answer before i started a 30 min imaging
[22:23] <sbalneav> heh
[22:23] <sbalneav> Not sure of your other question.
[22:23] <sbalneav> Well, I'm off for home.  Be on later tonight.
[22:23] <Goosemoose> ok im just going to runn it then
[22:24] <Goosemoose> ok thanks for the help
[22:24] <sbalneav> np
[23:26]  * LaserJock staggers in after 2.5 hrs of General Chemistry for Scientists and Engineers I
[23:32]  * Lns begs LaserJock not to blow up the chan
[23:32] <LaserJock> one wouldn't think a "let's find the mass and density of 60 pennies" would be so tiring
[23:33] <LaserJock> although much of it was the ~45 minutes spent in the computer lab showing them how to use Excel
[23:34] <Lns> heh
[23:34] <Lns> I've found it generally enjoyable to not broadcast your computer knowledge to random people ;)
[23:40] <LaserJock> I'm supposed to be teaching them, I'm sort of obligated ;-)
[23:41] <Lns> oh.
[23:41] <Lns> :p