[00:06] <DanaG> OH GOD, MY EYES!   http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/10/hp-shows-off-vivienne-tam-designed-digital-clutch-the-10-inch/
[00:06] <DanaG> hah.
[05:18] <Ziroday> kwwii: you awake?
[09:00] <dilomo> psyke83: hey man
[09:22]  * DanaG wishes the NewWave theme were in deb format.
[09:23] <DanaG> Oh, and I'd like to see a matching unlock dialog for each wallpaper, perhaps.  That'd be cool.
[09:27] <DanaG> hmm, grey-on-grey... a bit gloomy.
[09:27] <DanaG> windeco, that is.
[09:27]  * DanaG sticks with his bright orange.
[09:42] <dilomo> DanaG: do you know how to theme the main menu
[09:42] <dilomo> separately then the rest of the menus?
[09:43] <dilomo> btw there is deb
[09:43] <DanaG> Nope, I don't know if it's even possible.
[09:43] <dilomo> in the kwwii's PPA
[09:43] <dilomo> about the lock dialog
[09:43] <dilomo> what wallpaper do you have in mind
[09:44] <DanaG> One for each of the wallpapers there.
[09:45] <DanaG> For example, the "intense" one.
[09:45] <DanaG> That way you could pair the GDM, the wallpaper, and the lock dialog.
[09:45] <dilomo> I asked you because it's not so easy to do
[09:45] <DanaG> Aah.
[09:45] <dilomo> and most people want smth modern
[09:45] <dilomo> for wallpaper
[09:46] <dilomo> si I thought nobody is using these wallpapers but
[09:46] <dilomo> indeed it is good for all them (gdm ld and bg) to match
[09:46] <DanaG> Hot Wave Intense is pretty spiffy.
[09:47] <DanaG> I just do think the grey titlebars are a bit gloomy.  For a while, I was using a dark blue-and-grey theme, and it actually adversely affected my mood.
[09:47] <DanaG> Once I changed to the nice bright orange, my mood improved... literally instantly.
[09:47] <DanaG> Like, BAM!
[09:47] <dilomo> thats cool
[09:48] <dilomo> I haven't thout in this direction so far
[09:48] <DanaG> bug: set as wallpaper (from eye-of-gnome) doesn't work.  :(
[09:48] <DanaG> That's an Ubuntu bug, not an art bug.
[09:48] <DanaG> My theme: http://picpaste.com/screenshot-orange-nodoka-2.png
[09:50] <dilomo> wow I'm so not used to light themes now that when I look at it
[09:50] <dilomo> it's strange for me
[09:50] <DanaG> Heh, did I show you this?  It's "oh god, too bright!"  :   http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/10/hp-shows-off-vivienne-tam-designed-digital-clutch-the-10-inch/
[09:51] <DanaG> =þ
[09:51] <DanaG> My orange there is also a bit of a funky shade, too.  It's to match the bridge picture.
[09:51] <dilomo> :) these ppl are crazy
[09:52] <dilomo> that pink laptop is
[09:52] <DanaG> The goggles! They do nothing!
[09:52] <DanaG> =þ
[09:52] <dilomo> looking very bad IMO with that glossy screen
[09:53] <DanaG> Another random, interesting theme: http://astyanax0.deviantart.com/art/Muku-1-0-33133875
[09:54] <dilomo> hmm interesting
[09:55] <DanaG> ... and the theme I currently use when in Windows:  http://www.wincustomize.com/zoom.aspx?skinid=6568&libid=1
[09:56] <DanaG> Hmm, would it be possible to just 'tint' the grey of the window top, slightly?
[09:56] <DanaG> Oh yeah, and I find slanty icons to be odd; I currently use Tangerine.
[09:57] <DanaG> The OpenSUSE 11 Industrial icons work surprisingly well with this.
[09:58] <dilomo> is that vista ? ;)
[09:59] <dilomo> tint ?
[10:00] <dilomo> explain
[10:00] <DanaG> Oh yeah, that Molten theme (with the dragon) works in both XP and Vista.
[10:03] <dilomo> you can change the colors you need in the gtkrc file
[10:03] <dilomo> just search and replace "#696969" with your custom color and it should work
[10:03] <dilomo> btw you will need to do that replace in the metacity-1.xml theme file too
[10:04] <DanaG> Cool.  I'll have to try that tomorrow -- here's the time where I am:
[10:04] <DanaG> Thu Sep 11 02:04:09 PDT 2008
[10:04] <dilomo> where is that
[10:04] <DanaG> PDT is Pacific Daylight Time.
[10:04] <dilomo> her ist 12.04
[10:05] <DanaG> Daylight Savings Time.... more like 'screw up your clock twice a year' time.
[10:05] <dilomo> no I mena what city
[10:05] <DanaG> San Luis Obispo, CA.
[10:05] <dilomo> nice
[10:05] <DanaG> CA state, that is.  (with international community, you can never assume.)
[10:05] <dilomo> yeah I know that
[10:05] <dilomo> :)
[10:06] <dilomo> btw what is Washington DC ?
[10:06] <dilomo> that DC?
[10:06] <DanaG> Washington DC?  I can never keep that one straight.  Best just to use the full name.
[10:07] <DanaG> I mean, whose bright idea was that.... Washington, and "Washington, DC"
[10:07] <DanaG> ... =þ
[10:07] <DanaG> Anyway, /me goes off to bed.
[10:08] <DanaG> heh, random thing: google for 802.11h, you get this as one thing:
[10:08] <DanaG> 802.11 * Planck's constant = 5.3148354 × 10^-31 m2 kg / s
[10:08] <DanaG> That's rather random.
[10:10] <dilomo> ok
[10:11] <dilomo> bey
[10:11] <dilomo> bye
[12:42] <_MMA_> D.C. = District of Columbia
[12:43]  * _MMA_ used to live there.
[13:05] <dilomo> hay _MMA_
[13:08] <dilomo> do you know how to make the main menu to use different color that the rest of the menus?
[13:12] <_MMA_> dilomo: The menu itself? What part?
[13:13] <dilomo> well the menu not the menubar
[13:13] <dilomo> the part with Games, Internet ...
[13:13] <_MMA_> You can, but this will then effect Firefox. :(
[13:13] <dilomo> but isn't that supposed to be different
[13:13] <dilomo> style
[13:14] <_MMA_> It will effect it in a bad way.
[13:14] <_MMA_> ie:
[13:14] <dilomo> ok
[13:14] <Cimi> are you sure?
[13:14] <_MMA_> About?
[13:15] <Cimi> you can match the parent menubar widget
[13:15] <Cimi> something like
[13:15] <Cimi> *panel*GtkMenu
[13:15] <dilomo> I'm trying with
[13:15] <dilomo> widget_class "*Panel*MenuBar*Menu" style :highest "newwave-panelmenu"
[13:15] <Cimi> you may try, i'm not sure though
[13:16] <dilomo> but it doesn't work
[13:16] <Cimi> install experience engine
[13:16] <dilomo> first I remove the pixmap from the Main menu
[13:16] <dilomo> with  "*Panel*MenuBar*"
[13:16] <_MMA_> Last I was playing with it (a week ago) changing the mainmenu effected FF badly. Something to do with the text color.
[13:16] <Cimi> it can be used to debug widgets
[13:16] <_MMA_> Ill look later. I just got up and have things to do.
[13:17] <dilomo> debug?
[13:17] <dilomo> what do you mean
[13:17] <Cimi> it prints the widget hierarchy
[13:17] <Cimi> oh every widget you interact
[13:17] <dilomo> that's really smth useful
[13:18] <Cimi> yeah
[13:18] <dilomo> btw is it possible to make the combobox menus with light bg
[13:18] <dilomo> with proper matching?
[13:18] <Cimi> connect to irc.gimp.org and ask benzea
[13:19] <dilomo> ok
[13:19] <dilomo> thanks
[13:19] <Cimi> about the experience engine
[13:20] <dilomo> what about it?
[13:22] <dilomo> btw what channel is benzea in?
[13:23] <Cimi> #gnome-art
[17:31] <psyke83> hey
[17:31] <dilomo> hay psyke83
[17:32] <psyke83> last night I began organizing my Gmail account properly (filtering the messages from the ubuntu-art ML) and I noticed that Gmail categorizes many legitimate messages as spam... do the mail servers need to be added to a whitelist somewhere, perhaps?
[17:33] <psyke83> *legitimate messages from the Ubuntu ML's (I saw no false positives for any other mail, personal or otherwise)
[17:34] <dilomo> well I don't know
[17:34] <dilomo> I use Evolution
[17:34] <dilomo> and have now white lists
[17:35] <psyke83> dilomo: re your PM on the forums, you need to set bg[NORMAL] in the "newwave-menu" section, that's all
[17:35] <psyke83> the pixmap stuff seemed to interfere when I was testing it yesterday, though
[17:36] <dilomo> I have some great news
[17:36] <dilomo> about themeing
[17:36] <dilomo> form gnome 2.24 we will be able to theme the main menu
[17:36] <dilomo> separately then the rest of the menus
[17:37] <dilomo> it will match by widget
[17:37] <dilomo> and the name will be gnome-panel-main-menu
[17:37] <psyke83> are you sure it's not possible already? widget_class "*Panel*GtkMenu*"
[17:37] <psyke83> ok
[17:37] <dilomo> I talked with benzea today and he commited a patch
[17:38] <thorwil> kwwii: do you happen to know a commandline way of removing alpha layers from a batch of images?
[17:38] <dilomo> nope I tried that
[17:38] <dilomo> btw I've updated the repos
[17:38] <dilomo> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-new-wave/anton/devel
[17:38] <psyke83> well I assume it doesn't work, but you would probably need to set the priority to highest
[17:38] <dilomo> if anyone's interested
[17:38] <psyke83> *would have needed to
[17:39] <dilomo> I tried all that stuff but in vain
[17:40] <dilomo> btw I decided that I combo menus should be light
[17:40] <dilomo> so that they are easy on the eyes
[17:40] <dilomo> and made some matching to do that but it turns out that the old Option menus
[17:41] <dilomo> are not reflecting the changes
[17:42] <rsc__> what forums are we talking about here? :)
[17:44] <dilomo> gnome-art
[17:45] <rsc__> where is that?
[17:48] <dilomo> on irc.gimp.org
[18:36]  * kwwii is off for the evening
[18:40]  * DanaG likes the Nodoka engine still better than many others...... even with über-bright colors, it still looks soft and 'gentle' (hence the name).
[18:42] <psyke83> DanaG: ah but you're judging the whole engine by a single gtkrc theme :). I think Andrea also has Nodoka widget emulation in the Murrine engine (though it's not complete in Intrepid's SVN snapshot)
[18:42] <DanaG> Some time I'll post my theme somewhere, and then perhaps somebody can help me port it to that.
[18:43] <DanaG> I don't want to lose the rounded scrollbars, though -- I like them too much.
[18:43] <CimiDS> lol
[18:43] <CimiDS> it is an ugly hack
[18:43] <CimiDS> they will NEVER go inside murrine
[18:43] <psyke83> DanaG: the nodoka and murrine engines will be available in Intrepid - you could make a hybrid theme, pick & choose the widgets you like from each engine
[18:44] <DanaG> Ugly hack?  Can't say I've seen the code to know how hackish it is.
[18:45] <DanaG> re-link to thing I've posted before: http://picpaste.com/screenshot-orange-nodoka-2.png
[18:46] <psyke83> looking at that theme, I would change all the widgets to murrine, except the check/radiobuttons and frames
[18:46] <DanaG> ... and scrollbars.
[18:46] <DanaG> I want non-glossy, specifically.
[18:46] <psyke83> for you, not me :)
[18:47] <DanaG> Slider things are fugly, though -- I'll admit that.
[18:47] <psyke83> it's easy to do in the gtkrc, just make an empty subdefinition of the murrine engine within the style definitions that you want to change
[18:47] <psyke83> or vice-versa
[18:48] <DanaG> Hmm, right now my gtkrc uses Nodoka, obviously; would I be able to just change the engine it specifies?
[18:48] <psyke83> take a look at the Human(-Murrine) gtkrc to see all the new Murrine engine options, it's a lot more flexible than the previous release
[18:48] <psyke83> one sec
[18:48] <DanaG> Oh yeah, and the Tropic windeco hasn't been fixed like the Human one supposedly has.
[18:49] <DanaG> My windeco is Tropic without the red button.
[18:50] <psyke83> I'm on windows atm, can you paste your gtkrc to a pastebin? Then I'll edit it to show you how you can specify different engines
[18:53] <DanaG> Sure.
[18:53] <DanaG> !pastebin
[18:54] <DanaG> The color is a slight override of my own theme:  http://pastebin.com/f33bf9fd9  -- the index.theme for the color-match-to-bridge one
[18:54] <DanaG> gtkrc: http://pastebin.com/ffaeda72
[18:58] <psyke83> DanaG: let's imagine you only want to change the scrollbar in your theme to use murrine: http://pastebin.com/m2e1db132 (just an excerpt)
[18:59] <psyke83> conversely, if you want to have a theme that uses murrine for the majority of its widgets, you'd replace the engine subsection in "fedora-default" with murrine, and of course, use murrine's engine options instead: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-June/006567.html
[19:00] <psyke83> it's better to look at the Human gtkrc from Intrepid, but that post as a copy of the new engine options
[19:01] <psyke83> *has
[19:02] <DanaG> Hmm, would I copy the options from the Nodoka default definition into the override section for those components?
[19:04] <DanaG> stepper style.... what's a "stepper"?  Is that the spinbutton?
[19:04] <psyke83> you mean, if you wanted a theme using murrine for the majority of widgets? Yes, you'd need to put the engine options into those sections
[19:05] <DanaG> YEah.  I'd intend to use Murrine for everything that can match the current appearance; I'd use an override for things that won't match well with Murrine.
[19:05] <psyke83> it's the "direction arrow" part of the scrollbar
[19:05] <DanaG> Aah.
[19:05] <psyke83> I haven't tested the latest murrine snapshot, but the stepper styles didn't seem to be complete
[19:06] <psyke83> *for the older snapshot
[19:07] <psyke83> you will need to define engine options in each section, but it's not as bad as you would imagine. For example, the animation option is only relevent to the "*-progressbar" style, and the others are obvious
[19:08] <DanaG> Cool.
[19:08] <DanaG> Well, that gives me something useful to work on for today.
[19:08] <DanaG> s/for //
[19:09] <psyke83> Cimi_: have you improved the Nodoka widget emulation lately?
[19:10] <psyke83> I mean, do you intend to allow the engine to look identical to Nodoka when using "style = NODOKA", or is it only about the gradients?
[19:12] <Cimi_> which widget actually differs?
[19:14] <psyke83> the frame rounding, the steppers, the listview header divisions, the checkmarks and radiobuttons, and maybe other stuff
[19:15] <psyke83> I didn't get a chance to test the latest SVN release, still stuck with the older release in Intrepid. I was just curious if you intend to make it emulate everything "as exactly as possible"
[19:25] <LaserJock> greetings, does anybody know how I can get my hands on the icons that are on the Ubuntu wiki and website?
[19:25] <_MMA_> Got a link to whatcha need?
[19:25] <_MMA_> LaserJock: To the images?
[19:26] <LaserJock> _MMA_: well, I'm trying to work on Edubuntu's website
[19:26] <LaserJock> and I'd like to get icon images that are consistent with the rest of Ubuntu
[19:27] <_MMA_> "icons that are on the Ubuntu wiki and website?" Is just kinda vague. :)
[19:27] <LaserJock> _MMA_: sorry ;-)
[19:28] <_MMA_> Since I can link to many icons/sets/what have you. :)
[19:28] <LaserJock> I'm trying to make an equivalent of http://www.ubuntu.com/community/
[19:29] <LaserJock> so the globe and "Hi!" images
[19:29] <LaserJock> is there a set of those somewhere?
[19:29] <_MMA_> I would just rip those images. Some might be from Tango. Some look custom.
[19:30] <LaserJock> right, I just need *additional* images so I was wondering if there was maybe a fuller set to choose from
[19:31] <tretle> Cimi_ http://www.cimitan.com/blog/2008/04/01/flat-menubars-and-toolbars-for-murrine-rgba-ugly-hack-d/ when you talk about the menubar are you talking about the menubar ion gnome-panel?
[19:31] <_MMA_> "Hi!" looks custom. The globe "looks" Tango-ish but I dont think is the one used in the set.
[19:31] <_MMA_> s/"looks"/*looks*
[19:31] <LaserJock> _MMA_: if I just install tang-icon-theme-* would that get me close?
[19:32] <LaserJock> *tango
[19:32] <_MMA_> Yup
[19:32] <_MMA_> LaserJock: Something also to look at: http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Icon_Library
[19:33] <LaserJock> doh, I was there last night
[19:33]  * LaserJock needs to learn how to scroll
[19:34] <_MMA_> :P
[19:35] <_MMA_> LaserJock: In any case, I don't know where the sources are. I *think* Matthew Nussem maintains the website?
[19:35] <_MMA_> (my spelling could be off)
[19:35] <LaserJock> it is, but I know who you mean :-)
[19:35] <_MMA_> k
[19:59] <DanaG> /usr/share/themes/Orange Mix/gtk-2.0/gtkrc:78: error: unexpected identifier `stripes', expected character `}'
[19:59] <DanaG> argh.
[20:01] <DanaG> aah, not valid for murrine.
[20:04] <DanaG> Hmm, buttons are about the same... but somehow look a bit glossier.
[20:13] <DanaG> Woah, if you set roundness really high, to like 1000, you get really funky results.
[20:13] <DanaG> =þ
[20:17] <CimiDS> DanaG, yeah, but i don't expect people to do those things
[20:19] <DanaG> It falls under "violating preconditions".
[20:19] <DanaG> Hence the '=þ'
[20:19] <DanaG> Give crazy input, get undefined output; that's to be expected.
[20:21] <CimiDS> it can be fixed easily, but it requires a lot oh new lines
[20:24] <DanaG> Don't bother; I think it's amusing.
[20:24] <DanaG> My comment was more of an "oh hey, that's funny" thing, rather than a "oh hey, this is broken" thing.
[20:27] <CimiDS> clearlooks has that fix, using radius = 1000.0 shpulg give better results
[20:27] <CimiDS> should
[20:55] <DanaG> You could also just put a warning:  "WARNING: Using roundness over <threshold> may give very odd results."
[20:55] <DanaG> ... though that could be annoying if somebody does it deliberately.
[21:06] <DanaG> "     You can't implement those scrollbars without hacks, and I really don't want hacks in my code" -- hmm, what kind of hacks?
[21:13]  * DanaG wishes Stardock would make stuff for Linux... but then it'd have to be open-sourced.
[21:20] <CimiDS> DanaG, i'm quite sure that thecode for the concave steppers is in the scrollbar_slider
[21:21] <DanaG> That _is_ funky, you're right.
[21:21] <CimiDS> maybe tne drawing is splitted
[21:22] <DanaG> Oh yeah, the focus thing is another one: http://www.cimitan.com/murrine/mockups/gallery  -- the "say no to ugly dotted"
[21:22] <CimiDS> they draw the steppers
[21:22] <CimiDS> then the rounded part is drawnin the slider
[21:23] <CimiDS> i agree with the focus
[21:24] <DanaG> Oh yeah, behavior when clicking the rounded part of the scrollbar is also hard to define.
[21:25] <DanaG> Hmm, I guess I could live with square scrollbars, as long as the styling is right -- but for now, having the _outer_ part of the stepper be rounded, looks odd.
[21:25] <DanaG> Currently, when using Nodoka in OpenOffice, it somehow gets square scrollbars, and still looks fine to me.
[21:26] <DanaG> But the focus thing gets me, for now.
[21:28]  * DanaG wonders what sort of theme will stylistically fit with this brushed-metal laptop:  http://blog.laptopmag.com/hp-debuts-elitebook-adds-10-notebooks-to-business-lineup    http://www.slashgear.com/hp-elitebook-6930p-boasts-up-to-24hr-battery-life-0815536.php#more-15536
[21:29] <DanaG> Tabs are also a bit different between the two engines.
[21:39] <DanaG> http://www.geocities.com/samuelgoh21/DDWRT_BASIC_repeater.jpg
[21:39] <DanaG> Oh hey, the dd-wrt firmware has a theme that that New Wave could take some ideas from.
[21:39] <DanaG> http://codefromthe70s.org/images/dummynet_ddwrt.png