[00:00] JontheEchidna: wiki page says kubuntu-devel [00:00] apachelogger: will fix [00:01] seele: poke [00:08] i'm here i'm here [00:08] sorry [00:08] seele: #ubuntu-meeting [00:11] mmm, a meeting! [00:11] I wonder if old /me is welcome [00:12] you always are === apachelogger changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Welcome to the Kubuntu developers channel | Meeting going on in #ubuntu-meeting everyone is welcome! Nightrose is going to hand out cookies after the meeting. [00:37] apachelogger: pong [00:45] vorian: hey, how is the amd64 going? [00:45] pfft [00:45] sucks [00:45] i should have an iso sometime this weekend at the pace i'm going [01:04] ah, I just remembered why I left. [01:05] mhb: why's that? [01:06] because what you're promoting is not in a spirit of free software at all, it's basically vendor lock-in [01:06] I am not...I agreed with you on your idea [01:06] mounting is by far older than any KIO slaves there is [01:07] we have a deadline to reach, and if we can't include a feature in that deadline, it doesn't get included [01:07] but that doesn't mean we don't want to include it [01:07] blindly promoting anything with K in its title will never go too far [01:08] opinion, but OK [01:08] isn't that why people use kubuntu? ;) [01:08] they do? [01:08] * mhb doesn't [01:08] well, I use Ubuntu with pekwm, and some KDE apps, and I call it Kubuntu out of nostalgia. [01:10] but you go and replace unix with Kunix [01:11] uh, you're not using kubuntu, and you're suggesting that people who want the kde stack avoid "K" lock-in? [01:12] my sister, who does use Kubuntu, and doesn't care a bit about KDE, would like to play some GTK games in there [01:12] if you keep doing decisions like this one, it won't be possible [01:13] because a GTK app wouldn't support the game:/ KIO slave or whatever [01:13] she should use regular ubuntu then, if she doesn't care for kde... ubuntu is more integrated than the kde stack at present anyhow [01:14] mhb: in the case of games, there is the gaming zone stuff that both kde and gnome are starting to use [01:14] i don't see the point in using something and then wanting it to be less of what it is ;) [01:14] there are still a lot of things that need to be via open standards or freedesktop [01:14] because of one game, you recommend switching to the other interface. great. [01:15] I really see a similarity between what you're doing and racist segregation [01:16] or sexism, if you want [01:16] whoa, hyperbole much? [01:16] this is for the GTK, this is for the KDE, and you dare mix those [01:16] just great [01:16] how about "this is for the windows" and "this is for the mac" [01:17] nixternal: right, like firefox, or Pidgin. [01:17] wait... [01:17] it is going to happen no matter what, otherwise we don't have competition let alone coopetition [01:17] no [01:17] both very bad examples as I totally despise them both [01:18] and you have a logical argument for that, not just your taste, I'm sure. [01:18] I like the idea of KIO slaves, I just hate when you push stupid ideas like that one forward. [01:18] yes [01:19] I'm sure racism worked, too. [01:19] stupid --more-- in irssi [01:19] for some [01:19] it works here, I hate white people [01:19] mhb: heh, just get it over with and bring in the nazi card too ;) [01:19] * goatsocks puts on his brown shirt and marches to the KDE drums [01:20] lol [01:20] I don't do that. [01:20] the bad guy is me, Don Quixote. [01:21] fighting against wrong decisions. [01:21] because bikeshedding is fun ;) [01:22] mhb: wrong decisions would be wrong if there wasn't a correct solution...and in many cases, there is yet a correct solution, or someone with the skill and time to create the correct solution [01:22] some of your ideas, I wish you would ease up on, sit down, and put it to work, as you have many great ideas [01:22] but I think complaining about a choice w/o helping the cause helps anyone much [01:22] annoys many, that I do know [01:24] I know. [01:24] But don't worry, I'll give up on that and get back to computer science, where there's no corporate decisions and policies. [01:24] That's why I love it. [01:25] what do you do when computer science is over and it is back on to corporate decisions and policies? [01:25] where I work, we have people that have all of those insanely great ideas as you do, but they take it from an idea and make it a reality...that's what you need to do, a breakout moment if you will [01:26] nah, he wants an academic career ;) [01:26] thinking about it, at least. [01:27] I really dislike vendor lock-in. Internet Explorer destroyed innovation on the Web for several years just because it came bundled with Windows, then earned a lot of user share, then stopped evolving and everyone had to optimize just for it. [01:27] KIO slaves work like that, too. [01:28] Any non-KDE app that is great won't make it to default Kubuntu just because it doesn't support some KDE-centric technology. [01:29] i think you're missing the nature of the linux ecosystem compared to MS stuff... if your distro sucks, grab another distro, or another, or another... if your desktop environment sucks, try another, or another... many choices with linux [01:29] we are KDE based, as Ubuntu is Gnome based, and every other distro does the same, except for OpenSUSE and Yast :P [01:29] And speaking about using what's done - disabling KIO slaves or moving them to background and just prefer mounting and mountconfig is not something that cannot be done. [01:30] is something that can be done, for people having trouble with my double negative :o) [01:31] I always felt Kubuntu, as a part of the Ubuntu family, should do the most to bring KDE and GNOME technology together, not separate them. [01:31] In a way, decisions like this one undermine my work on unified backends for several Ubuntu apps. [01:32] No wonder I'm agitated. [01:33] the only gnome technology I want is Tomboy [01:33] minus the c# crap of course [01:34] i was a gnome user for a few years and i finally just weaned myself off of tomboy and found kjots an agreeable replacement [01:34] so no mono stack on my system anymore [01:34] i tried zim, but man that was even buggier than tomboy [01:34] well, sorry to be a bother. [01:35] enjoy the rest of the meeting. [01:35] mhb: you just have novel ideas about kubuntu that don't agree with its actual mission ;) [01:36] goatsocks: I'm sure I must seem to you like a complete stranger that just comes in and complains. [01:36] and I guess that's what I am. [01:37] complete stranger? nah :P [01:37] Nobody reall cares about what you do. [01:37] Not even here. [01:38] I can't really justify developing anything that nobody even notices. [01:38] Unless it's just for me. [01:39] what have you developed that we should notice? [01:39] Nothing. [01:39] perhaps that's why we didn't notice? ;) [01:40] I guess you're right. [01:40] goatsocks: he's developed or worked on several kubuntu utilities [01:41] Well, I tried, but nobody noticed, so I stopped. [01:41] Not even the silly release announcement. [01:41] 13:00UTC on Saturday should be good here... [01:42] works for me ryanakca and apachelogger [01:42] mhb: you may be doing it for the wrong reasons then imo... for instance, i'm currently hacking on software-properties-kde not because i'm trying to get noticed or i'm some generous dude, but because the current state of it got under my skin and i decided if i wasn't gonna do something about it nobody would [01:42] nixternal: okies, see you then. I've never done any marketing, but I'm willing to help out. [01:43] goatsocks: even after my pykde4 love? :( [01:43] goatsocks: it would have probably driven you mad before pykde4 :P [01:43] JontheEchidna: i'm rather pedantic and tend to see inconsistencies in UIs that escape others ;) [01:43] ryanakca: you have started with the website, so you are halfway there :) [01:43] goatsocks: I never intended on getting noticed. But getting acknowledged and noticed is something different. [01:44] :) [01:44] mhb: well i do agree with you that simple acknowledgement is always nice [01:44] especially for the work you do not do for yourself [01:45] mhb: so for what it's worth, thanks for your contributions ;) [01:45] yes, like you know them. [01:45] i don't, because you haven't told me what they were... yuriy apparently knows [01:45] goatsocks: I did see some GUI-related low-priority bugs & Wishlists for software-props-kde in LP [01:45] goatsocks: nitpicky type gui bugs [01:45] JontheEchidna: yeah the todo list i've compiled has turned out to be rather long [01:46] good night [01:48] ryanakca, nixternal: roger [01:48] emunkki: 13UTC saturday meeting about kubuntu marketing [01:51] Riddell: will s-c-p eventually be turned in to a kcm module? [01:52] seele: yes that's the plan, when there's a way to do that with pyKDE4 [01:52] OK, I am gonna try and get my girlyfriend to go out and eat with me now...if you need anything, hilight or msg me [01:52] Riddell: meaning it can't be yet? [01:52] or that it's just more work to do that isnt done yet [01:52] seele: no, it's on Sime's todo list I believe [01:54] seele: can't be done yet [01:54] NCommander: there is an ubuntu n800 project already but i didnt see porting for hary [01:54] seele, it targets arm, not armel [01:54] And arm as a port is dead in Debain [01:54] Riddell: hum.. another thing we should look at for jaunty is how much config is outside system settings and what can be easily converted to kcm [01:55] seele: userconfig, jockey, and printer are the ones off the top of my head [01:55] seele: say that in #u-m so I pick it up for the minutes :) [01:56] i thought you were ending the meeting when irn-bru ran out [01:58] NCommander: so ubiquity port to KDE [01:58] yes? [01:58] NCommander: should be pretty easy to do, QApplication needs changed to KApplication, see any pykde app for an example of a KApplication [01:58] some examples are in kde4bindings source [01:58] oh yay, porting 3,000-ish LoC [01:58] most of it is changing Q to K [01:59] only very small bits need ported [01:59] the icons is the other one [01:59] and rearranging the arguments [01:59] so search replace Q with K ;-)? [01:59] use KIcon instead of the current messy loading [01:59] the rest should be fine as is [01:59] NCommander: for example KMessageBox switches title and text arguments [01:59] Riddell: are they doing much with ubiquity anymore? the partitioning ui is still a bit rough [01:59] KIcon takes icon names rather than absolute paths [01:59] NCommander: you can also see my talk at UbuntuDeveloperWeek for an example, alas nobody took me up on the idea of turning it into a techbase.kde.org tutorial [02:00] * NCommander uses the SOURCE :-) [02:00] what's the installer on the current intrepid cd? [02:00] oh [02:00] uh [02:00] you know [02:00] the most awesome feature for ubiquity would be a marble widget [02:00] yus [02:00] with zoom [02:00] yus++ [02:00] * seele sighs [02:00] * NCommander will do the basic port, someone else can add eye candy [02:00] seele: I don't know of any changes during the intrepid cycle, I should talk to evan and find out [02:00] apachelogger: we should fix partitioning before that! [02:00] nah [02:00] accessibility > usability [02:01] but but but it sucks! [02:01] I have a couple of visually handicapped firends and they can't use the current map selector [02:01] marble is a large application apart from anything else, wouldn't fit on the CD [02:01] and choosing the time zone in the drop down is a PITA [02:01] Riddell: maybe we could strip it [02:01] more of a target for jaunty anyway [02:02] apachelogger: I'd volunteer you to do it but I know you won't, it's in python :) [02:02] I could port it to C++ [02:02] if KOffice is ready for jaunty, that'd free up some disk space [02:02] * apachelogger needs some small project before he can start on khelpcenter :) [02:02] JontheEchidna: oh yes, that's a good point [02:02] apachelogger, so you'd rewrite d-i ;-) [02:03] apachelogger: do you know c++? :) [02:03] not as well as ruby [02:03] that is the problem really ;-) [02:05] Riddell, how fast is your Nokia tablet? [02:07] oh wow, by join kubuntu-members, I'm going to get regular Ubuntu membership? [02:08] + a nice IRC cloak [02:08] xubuntu? [02:08] * NCommander is shot === apachelogger changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Welcome to the Kubuntu developers channel | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Todo [02:09] Bah, I think I need to install the NVIDIA drivers if I want decent performance out of KDE4 [02:10] NCommander: look at me, all i did was become a kubuntu member and i got all of what i have [02:10] i have used kubuntu and have been a part of the kubuntu community much more than ubuntu [02:11] that's a lot of teams [02:11] I can shove my blog on Planet Ubuntu ;-) [02:11] whats a lot of teams? [02:11] Ubuntu members, bug control, all the kubuntu teams aside from testers and council [02:11] me is part of a bunch of teams too [02:12] * NCommander has a long list of teams [02:12] man, ubiquty's bzr repo is HUGE [02:12] * apachelogger has a groupie team :P [02:12] with 3 groupies [02:12] apachelogger, link? [02:12] * apachelogger needs to buy more groopies [02:13] * NCommander should see if someone should make a we-love-ncommander team [02:13] * NCommander runs [02:13] https://edge.launchpad.net/~we-love-harald [02:13] NCommander: im actually in a relatively small amount of groups [02:13] WHat is "Kubuntu's Most Experimental Packages" [02:14] a place for us to dump pre-alpha software packages [02:14] Should I apply for that team? [02:14] how long have you used linux for? [02:14] Since 2.0 was released [02:14] (kernel 2.0) [02:15] so you realize how unstable linux experimental things usually are [02:15] lol [02:15] coreymon77, I do the alpha packaging for Xfce ;-) [02:15] currently we have firefox-qt mercurial snapshots [02:15] okay [02:15] * NCommander is an Xunbtu Developer [02:15] *Xubuntu even [02:15] and mozilla-plugin-plasma [02:16] should be updated both IMHO [02:16] or [02:16] JontheEchidna: did actually anything change in firefox-qt [02:16] its true though, even betas when it comes to linux are usually really beta [02:16] someone said the development stopped pretty much [02:16] apachelogger: I haven't been following it. It became harder to follow after it was merged [02:16] apachelogger, your groupee team needs an icon [02:17] * apachelogger is wondering to do about that [02:17] wow, I've been using Launchpad for over a year [02:18] brb [02:25] Now that I've installed the NVIDIA garbage, my system feels speeder === mcasadevall is now known as NCommander [02:29] erm... how to convert a QString into a python string? [02:30] urgs [02:30] bah === NCommande is now known as NCommander [02:31] shouldn't use str as variable name^^ [02:33] blizzz: I think it'd be something like str(yourQString.gettext()) [02:34] JontheEchidna: it works with str(qstringthing), my mistake was to have a temp variable called str some lines before [02:34] cool [02:34] that explained the irritating error message as well :D [02:34] -ed +s [02:35] whatcha workin' on? [02:36] JontheEchidna: something like a soccer ticker. i am parsing a website for this [02:36] kool [02:36] hopefully python plasmoid bindings will appear soon [02:37] actually there is a working version, but since this was my very beginning with python and qt and pykde. i am rewriting it [02:37] you could make a plasmoid out of it easy [02:37] JontheEchidna: there is now, if you count superkaramba ;) [02:37] JontheEchidna: yeah i am desperately waiting for the bindings :) [02:40] hi jjesse [02:40] hello JontheEchidna [02:51] so how is the wonderful world of kubutnu today? [02:54] good [02:54] the meeting went well [02:55] bummer that i missed it [02:56] ya, hopefully the Minutes Fairy will get the minutes up soon [02:56] hopefuly [02:56] i ate way too much at dinner tonight [02:56] Riddell: so what's going to happen with desktop-effects-kde in Intrepid? [02:57] Looking at the bugs it seems that it needs a ton of work to be usable at all in Intrepid [02:57] Riddell: please remove kicker-compiz from intrepid [02:57] are the bugs in launchpad? [02:57] but we already have an easy-to-use desktop effects setup thingy, and as a bonus it's in systemsettings [02:58] feisty, gutsy and hardy are the currently supported versions correct? [02:58] Riddell: and kicker-taskbar-compiz [02:58] could we hack composite toggle to trigger compiz --replace? [02:59] jjesse: dapper is supported for a while too [02:59] until next year anway [02:59] ah yeah [03:14] what is the group "almost kubuntu bugs" in launchpad for? [03:18] jjesse: It's going to be kubuntu-bugs once we secure the group name [03:18] oh [03:18] It will subscribe to all kubuntu-related bugs [03:18] interesting [03:18] so you can get all kubuntu bugmail when you join [03:18] hy guys, looks this please http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=plasmoid-cpuload, my first package... [03:24] Lex79: The work on your part looks good to me [03:24] A few issues though [03:24] Intrepid reached Feature Freeze the 28th of last month, meaning new packages will have a very hard time getting in [03:24] but more importantly [03:24] The author hasn't licensed his code under the GPL, or any license for that matter [03:25] The author needs to add GPL headers to his .cpp and .h files, as well as include the full text of the GPL in the form of a file called COPYING [03:25] The packaging looks excellent though. ;-) [03:26] JontheEchidna: why does it need to be gpl specifically? [03:26] goatsocks: It doesn't, I suppose [03:26] any free license debian accepts will do [03:27] uhm [03:27] so basically osi approved [03:27] but currently, it ain't licensed by anything or even copyrighted by the author [03:27] http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/cpuload?content=86628 [03:27] License: GPL [03:27] but there isn't in source [03:28] Lex79: yes, that's basically the problem. In situations like these it's generally best to notify the author by email [03:28] ok JontheEchidna [03:28] btw, thanks for making the rebuild for plasmoid-wifi [03:28] i've had that prob with 3 or 4 apps i packaged for other distros and i always got a good response from the authors on licensing [03:29] ya, generally they respond quite well [03:30] nobody wants their code misappropriated ;) [03:31] Lex79: btw, apachelogger and vorian will usually do revus if you need them. :-) I would, but I'm not an motu yet [03:31] ehehe JontheEchidna :) [03:33] when update automoc4 to 0.9.87? :( [03:33] some plasmoid needs [03:36] ugh, why do people keep posting superkaramba themes in the plasma section? [03:37] Lex79: automoc 0.9.87 is part of KDE 4.2 [03:37] JontheEchidna: uff :( [03:38] ya :( [03:40] Heh, looks like Oxygen: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/DustTheme?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=ubuntudust.jpg [03:42] is it gnome? [03:42] yeah, a proposed theme for Intrepid [03:42] nice :) [03:43] you know [03:43] you could probably make KDE4 look very much like Gnome [03:46] we hope for theme, I don't like gnome and human murrine, I use only kde ehehe :) [03:51] why do i need a landscape client? [03:51] i'm not using landscape [03:52] seems silly [03:54] * JontheEchidna just removed that [03:54] why would it be installed? [03:55] no clue how that got there [04:01] guys, GPL in plasmoid-cpuload is in plasmoid-cpuload-0.1/data_engine/cpu_load.cpp and cpu_load.h [04:02] http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/plasmoid-cpuload-0809112050/plasmoid-cpuload-0.1/data_engine/ [04:02] but not here http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/plasmoid-cpuload-0809112050/plasmoid-cpuload-0.1/plasmoid/ [04:02] LOL [04:04] but there isn't COPYNG file, is the same? [04:05] The COPYING file is a copy of the whole license [04:05] the .cpp and .h files just need the little bit where they say that the source is licensed with the GPL [04:06] ah ok... the COPYNG file is needed for the package then? [04:07] the author needs to include it in the tarball [04:07] hola [04:08] JontheEchidna, ok thanks and sorry for my bad English ehehe :) [04:09] You're welcome [04:09] * JontheEchidna uploads a pic of his kde4-gnome emulation [04:10] http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c355/Woremar/kde4gnome.png [04:11] oh my [04:12] he's using a vistaclone pannel [04:12] just a bit of spacing issues on the top panel [04:13] the applets seem to take all the space they can get [04:13] JontheEchidna: your theme is "how to kill oxygen team" ? [04:13] this is your screenshot JontheEchidna? [04:13] :) [04:13] yes, I made this in 10 mins or so [04:14] baspheme [04:14] lol [04:14] * vorian scrubbs his eyes [04:14] with lava [04:14] I did keep a backup of my regular, non-Vista/Gnome desktop [04:14] did you just you use a screenshot for your desktop? [04:15] nope [04:15] I added 2 panels, got them down to 24 pixels high [04:15] then threw widgets in them like they would be in Gnome [04:15] ha [04:15] This, I believe, demonstrates the power of plasma quite well [04:15] which pannel theme is that? [04:15] tis crazy [04:15] Arezzo [04:16] it looks like that vista clone for gnome [04:16] goal was to emulate this oxygen clone: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/DustTheme?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=ubuntudust.jpg [04:16] the bottom pannel give's away the kde-ness of it though [04:16] haha [04:16] nice [04:17] maybe slim glow would have been a better choice for the panel theme [04:17] those are mac folders [04:17] this http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/multirows+task+manager?content=83177 for panel is nice [04:17] those look like Oxygen folders too [04:17] except brown [04:18] yeah, more macish imo [04:18] yeah, transparent + the angle [04:18] look at the mac-like buttons on ff [04:18] I think the windeco really looks like Oxygen [04:18] blended titlebars + the buttons [04:18] yeah [04:19] it's very close [04:19] the top at least [04:20] it was a fun experiment, but this feels too much like Gnome [04:20] * JontheEchidna switches back to his old plasma-appletsrc [04:29] JontheEchidna: good night, and thanks :) [04:29] you're welcome :) [04:30] ;) === coreymon77 is now known as coreymon === coreymon is now known as coreymon77 [06:25] another kmail bug day on sunday [06:26] could go well with kdepim being one of the big untriaged things for kubuntu [06:32] apachelogger, hmmkay [06:35] apachelogger, which chan? [07:40] Riddell: ping? [07:41] seele: you around? === NCommande is now known as NCommander [11:03] Riddell: you around? [11:03] NCommander: hi [11:09] apachelo1ger_: I removed kicker-*compiz [11:10] digikam beta 3 doesn't seem to want to compile [11:10] gcc just gets stuck at 100% cpu usage for ages [11:12] Riddell: I've made my first stab at modifying Ubiquty to use kde python vs. qt [11:13] Riddell: thank you. [11:13] * NCommander is waiting for it to finish building on the liveCD for its first trial run [11:15] NCommander: you can just edit the kde_ui.py file in place on the live CD to test [11:15] now you tell me :-P [11:15] that's the nice thing about python over c++ [11:16] That will make testing and coding somewhat easier however :-) [11:20] Riddell: my inital attempt appears to have been somewhat successful, the GUI at least comes up now ;_) [11:23] yay [11:23] er, nm [11:23] It was reading from the cached .pyc [11:23] if you do edit the files in place on the live cd, make sure to copy them to a real disk periodicly [11:30] apachelogger or Riddell: Any inputs on which modules from kde-guidance need to live on still? [11:30] * ScottK-laptop is about to make Guidance displayconfig go away. [11:30] Yay [11:31] Riddell: as an aside, any idea when your going to add me to members ;-) [11:31] NCommander: not before revu is using shiny oxygen icons :P [11:31] ScottK-laptop: didn't discuss that [11:31] but I think someone suggested to keep displayconfig around [11:32] i just upgraded hardy to intrepid.. everything seems to work fine [11:32] except kde4 crashes randomly [11:32] http://paste.ubuntu.com/46132/ [11:33] gribelu: are the desktop effects activated? [11:33] gribelu: did you really start kuser? [11:33] at the time of the last crash they were on but disabled via alt-shift-f12 so i guess we can say they were off :) [11:33] :) [11:33] yeah why not? [11:34] hm [11:34] I hope you didn't add a new user [11:34]