=== DanaG1 is now known as DanaG
=== DanaG1 is now known as DanaG
CimiDSkwwii, better tab highlighting in revision 6002:51
CimiDS_MMA_, too03:05
=== DanaG1 is now known as DanaG
DanaGOh yeah, another random reference to look at for the newwave:04:14
DanaGSolarion theme.04:14
* DanaG forgot whose theme that New Wave is04:16
CimiDSkwwii, ping08:39
DanaGOh yeah, try the Nodoka engine some time in OpenOffice, and take a look at how the scrollbars there look -- it's essentially a squared version of the round thing.  Any chance you could replicate that, at least?08:58
DanaGIf you got that and the focus thing (as well as the progress bar, which doesn't quite match), it'd be perfect.08:58
DanaGRounded scrollbars are a small thing to sacrifice in exchange for cool things like RGBA.08:59
CimiDSprogress bar? what's wrong?09:28
kwwiiCimiDS: pong10:46
CimiDSupgrade to r6111:16
DanaGOh yeah, progress bar... perhaps I'm misremembering.11:32
DanaGOh yeah, I think it did look the same.11:32
DanaGNever mind.11:32
=== njpatel is now known as njpatel_at_docto
=== njpatel_at_docto is now known as njpatel
=== ambri1 is now known as ambrin
CimiATTENTION: since murrine r64 "style" option was renames to "profile"18:30
_MMA_Cimi: Thats going to break *alot* of themes. Unless you've added some kinds legacy support.18:32
Cimiyou are using svn, svn can break API18:33
Starkscanonical is being too secretive about their in-house theme team18:33
Cimithere's legacy support for stable API18:33
_MMA_Cimi: Regardless of what *Im* using, once released, its going to break alot of themes.18:34
_MMA_Ok. Good.18:34
Cimino :)18:34
andreasnStarks: I didn't know there was one18:34
Starksintrepid's theme will be in-house18:34
Cimistyle is an optionintroduced in the svn18:34
Cimiso i shouldn't worry about breaking themes18:35
Cimiisn't it? :)18:35
_MMA_Cimi: Ok. Im mistaken then. I was thinking about something else.18:35
_MMA_andreasn: Don't feed the trolls that come into a room, spout crap about things they don't have the facts.18:36
andreasn_MMA_: oh, sorry. I just never heard of a inhouse team18:37
andreasnoh, that sounds like a hen out of a feather (or whatever it's called)18:38
_MMA_andreasn: There is a new art director. Is supposed to plan for the future. Coordinated branding/look&feel across Ubuntu.18:39
andreasn_MMA_: cool18:39
andreasnhope things turn out good then18:40
_MMA_andreasn: What's your idea of "good"? :)18:41
andreasnnothing special really, but better than now I would hope18:42
_MMA_What's your idea of "better"? :)18:42
_MMA_Really. It's all crap opinion. :)18:43
* _MMA_ thinks "good" is everything on my desktop is some shade of chocolate. :P18:43
andreasnI would be very surprised if we're now at the point of the ultimate look & feel of the free desktop18:43
_MMA_Which you think would be? :)18:43
andreasnthat I do not now?18:44
_MMA_You mean: "That, I do not know." ?18:45
andreasnah, yes18:45
andreasnI started taking a English class last night, we learned periods and commas, but apparently I wasn't paying enough attention :)18:46
_MMA_Your English is better than Cimi's. :P18:46
andreasnbut it's really interesting, because English use commas a _lot_ more than Swedish18:47
_MMA_I'm also sorry. I'm just trying to cut through all the generic opinion as of late. I read so much opinion that lacks substance. It's always, "I don't know what I like. I just know I don't like that.". That has been the issue with Mark around here for instance.18:47
andreasnthe Swedish grammar rule is something like "use a comma when you need to breathe"18:47
_MMA_So now, I hope to move away from being held to his whim.18:48
_MMA_Unless artists *want* to.18:48
_MMA_andreasn: Yeah. English is only /kinda/ like that.18:48
* thorwil is unsure about about commas in english18:49
andreasnoh, well, I certainly have some ideas of where I would personally like to improve GNOME in terms of less noise, less cuteness, proper use of layout, consistency etc18:49
andreasnbut don18:49
andreasnbut I don't tend to do stuff at the Ubuntu level, but at the GNOME level18:49
andreasnI just hang out in here :)18:49
andreasnbut yeah, I can understand your frustration18:50
_MMA_andreasn: Sure. I know why you're in here. I wouldn't give shit about Ubuntu. :) I do plan to shake things up around our little corner of the interweb.18:52
thorwil_MMA_: "So now, I hope to move away from being held to his whim." - fits nicely to the text i'm drafting where i explain that mark cannot be the target audience / is not likely to represent a worthwhile target audience18:52
_MMA_thorwil: Thing is. I'm not sure *we* have to define one. My thought atm, is to let people create things that feel ubuntu and put them in a package based on popularity and technical, um, capibility. The work well. No bugs.18:54
_MMA_Don't know how to say that right atm.18:54
thorwil_MMA_: we all always work with at least some assumptions about the audience. even if we just exclude children and grannies. can only help to have it written down18:56
thorwil_MMA_: but i'm far less adamant about that than troy :)18:56
_MMA_Here's the thing though.18:57
_MMA_If we're not aiming for default, Why should we be restricted to audience?18:58
thorwilto have guidance and internal consistence18:58
thorwilto choose the right words for our message18:58
thorwilto me, there is not much place for a difference between aiming for default and aiming to be damn good ;)18:59
_MMA_Why do we need a message? :) *Some* guidance can be restrictive and what "internal consistence"?18:59
_MMA_To me, let the artist decide their audience.19:00
_MMA_This is all very open still.19:00
thorwil_MMA_: if you go all artsy doing-what-feels-right, you're right back on the i-like-this or i like that level19:00
_MMA_And that can be fine. If someone creates a good theme, that feels Ubuntu as far as color cues, why can't it be used?19:01
_MMA_Hell. Someone's vision of Ubuntu could be green. Should we exclude it?19:01
thorwilit could and no19:02
_MMA_Questions I still haven't answered for myself.19:02
_MMA_It will need some debate.19:02
thorwilyou can't be all free for everything _and_ get away from everyone being a lone art warrior19:03
thorwilbut i'm no control freak. i want a stem of order and there can be chaos all around it19:04
_MMA_Sure. But I think we'll need to find a balance that feels right for us. So far, I'm just dealing with the technicals.19:04
_MMA_I'll get places for people to put their pink Ubuntu theme if the rest of our ML or whatever wants it in. :P19:05
_MMA_Meeting in 1 hour. Either here or in #ubuntu-meeting.19:09
_MMA_kwwii: Where's the meeting?19:10
thorwilfrom Ken's mail: "A meeting is now scheduled for Friday at 19:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting."19:10
kwwiiit is probably not on the fridge because I am too lazy19:11
Starksnew wave bzr FTW19:14
Starksgtk, metacity, compiz, emerald, xfce, wallpaper, gdm, list, lock, and usplash19:14
Cimiyou'll get tired of those themes with the dark osX menubar19:15
_MMA_chicken, motorboat, ice cream, paper mill, flu and santa19:22
thorwilall lies!19:22
dilomowell not agree19:23
dilomoonly the usplah is not ready yet19:24
_MMA_WTF was there to agree or disagree on? :)19:24
dilomo(21,22,59) thorwil: all lies!19:24
thorwildilomo: chicken, really?19:25
_MMA_I'm so lost. :)19:26
thorwildilomo: look one line above mine19:27
dilomooooh yaah19:27
dilomoit's all clear now19:27
_MMA_Im a retarded for wanting to do this? http://gizmodo.com/5049073/homemade-human-catapult-provides-not+quite+safe-fun19:28
thorwilno, retarded is not the word19:29
_MMA_Yeah, "awesome" is the word. :)19:30
dilomothat looks cool19:30
_MMA_Alternative KDE main menu: http://lancelot.fomentgroup.org/screenshots19:31
_MMA_Meeting in 20 mins.19:39
thorwil#ubuntu-meeting is so scary, everyone can see us there 0.019:42
_MMA_thorwil: Just imaging everyone in their underwear. :)19:43
* thorwil freaks out19:43
* _MMA_ pulls up agenda email.19:46
dilomobut I cannot join19:48
dilomothere's nobody in the chat rooom19:48
thorwilyou misspelled it19:48
thorwildilomo: /j #ubuntu-meeting19:49
dilomo /j #ubuntu-meeting19:49
_MMA_dilomo: Or, don't paste in the room name. Pidgin does some crazy things with pasting to stop spamming.19:49
zniavre /j #ubuntu-meeting19:49
_MMA_Type: /join #ubuntu-meeting19:50
thorwiloh boy19:50
thorwilit's very important to not have anything in front of the /19:50
dilomoI'm in19:51
dilomothanks guys19:51
dilomoits fill max19:51
thorwilfill max?19:52
Ken_VEllo Ello20:15
thorwilKen_V: -> ubuntu-meeting20:16
thorwilKen_V, dilomo: http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/ibex_horns_22_4to3.jpg20:51
thorwilit will not see much more refinement20:51
dilomoit's good and should be include IMHO20:52
thorwilwell, i'm glad you like it :)20:52
_MMA_thorwil: Yeah. This should go in kwwii's package.21:05
_MMA_Ill be around for another hour or so.21:48
* _MMA_ turns on a movie.21:49
bcurtiswxhi all, i have a question if anyone is around22:04
* bcurtiswx pokes room22:07
bcurtiswxwow... a ghost channel22:09
ubottuPlease don't ask to ask a question, ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely answer. :-)22:10
bcurtiswxhaha.. ok22:10
bcurtiswxbug 269226 i have confirmed, but i know its not a firefox issue but a font issue22:11
ubottuLaunchpad bug 269226 in firefox-3.0 "Web page font rendering issues (palatino font)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26922622:11
bcurtiswxi need advice on what package I need to assign to this bug so it can be triaged22:11
bcurtiswxnoone in the bugs channel knows22:11
_MMA_bcurtiswx: Hmm... #ubuntu-devel will be able to tell you.22:12
bcurtiswxthanks, _MMA_22:12
_MMA_np. For a D.C. guy. ;)22:12
bcurtiswxwhere u from?22:13
_MMA_P.G County/D.C. originally. Now I'm In Raleigh.22:13
bcurtiswxAh, i'm a Grad Student at George Mason22:14
bcurtiswxoriginally from Rochester, NY22:14
* _MMA_ likes upstate. Misses snow.22:14
bcurtiswxMe too, went to SUNY Oswego, snowbelt .. every winter at least 1 4-5 foot snowstorm22:15
_MMA_Friends from upstate would laugh at a "blizzard in D.C" whenever the news said that.22:16
bcurtiswxyeah, i do22:17
bcurtiswxgot like an inch.. people lost their driving skills.  was the worst time on the roads i've ever had22:17
_MMA_Oh well. I still miss D.C. and whatever snow it does get. The Mall looks great when it shows.22:17
bcurtiswxyeah, i plan on taking a metro trip there if it snows22:17
bcurtiswxi hear theres an ice rink at the sculpture garden?22:18
bcurtiswxcute kid!22:19
_MMA_bcurtiswx: Hmm... Might be portable. SOmething they put up in windet.22:19
_MMA_2 years ago but yeah. He's cute. ;)22:20
Cimikwwii, poke me when you'll submit something, I'm interested22:22
kwwiiCimi: not ready to submit anything yet22:47
kwwiibut if you want to see the work in progress, it is at http://sinecera.de/progress.png22:48
DanaGHmm, interesting... what's that?22:52
kwwiijust an idea22:53
DanaGargh, line on Murrine tabs is thicker than I like... and the scrollbars are 'funky' (due to ill-fitting rounded outer corners).22:55
DanaGThough the focus thing is a bigger deal to me.22:56
DanaGHackish as it is, I still like rounded, though.22:59
DanaGIs there no way to draw it non-hackishly?22:59
DanaGI don't know enough about GTK to do anything with it.23:00
kwwiiI should just learn to write an engine myself23:01
kwwiiand in a year or so I could write something myself and have it look like crap but only blame myself23:01
DanaGMurrine just doesn't "feel" the same.23:01
DanaGOh yeah, I know why: the scrollbar shading is different, too.23:02
DanaGAnd progress bars are drastically different.23:03
DanaGInteresting... shading on disabled controls is also different.23:06
DanaGAah, Compiz zoom is handy for comparing these things.23:08
DanaGAnother handy thing: open one twf with one theme or gtk, and another with a different one.  Overlay the two, and fade one in and out.23:11
DanaGMurrine has much "harder" edges and gradients.23:15
Cimi1DanaG: decrease constrast23:15
DanaGAah, should I just post my metatheme somewhere?23:16
Cimi1just add contrast = 0.7 or what you like23:17
DanaGThe Nodoka one didn't have a defined contrast.23:17
Cimi1remember to use the latest snapshot23:17
Cimi1nodoka is ugly23:17
DanaGI like it... it's soft even with bright colors.23:18
Cimi1nodoka is murrine with some static options23:18
DanaGUgh, Contrast... doesn't do it.23:18
Cimi1if you're running latest svn23:18
DanaGIt does weird things.23:18
DanaGI'll check if I'm using svn.23:19
Cimi1profile = NODOKA23:19
DanaG"profile" rather than "style"?23:19
Cimi1contrast = 0.823:19
Cimi1yeah, I've changed it today23:19
DanaGOh, I don't have the SVN anywhere... I mean, I need to make an initial 'get' (or whatever it's called).23:19
Cimi1svn co http://svn.gnome.org/svn/murrine/trunk murrine && cd murrine && sudo apt-get install build-essentials libgtk2.0-dev --yes && ./autogen.sh --prefix=/usr && sudo make install23:21
Cimi1it will work23:21
Cimi1kwwii: mockups!23:23
DanaGAre there also styling changes in the svn?23:31
DanaGI noticed that the borders on things such as combo boxes are much 'harder' on murrine.23:31
DanaGOn Nodoka, they match the border around the button -- it uses that 'darkness' all the way around.  The Murrine one has the textbox part more darkly bordered.23:32
DanaGAah, there are also differences in shading on disabled buttons.23:36
DanaGand same with slider controls.23:39
DanaGI wish Fedora had submitted patches, instead of forking23:45
DanaGGrr... Fedora.23:46
DanaG... speaking of which, here's a leopard wearing one:  http://www.skinit.com/skins/graphic_designs/bigcats23:46
Cimi1DanaG: I don't like nodoka23:54
Cimi1also, as said, this is a matter of contrast23:55
Cimi1just decrease the contrast of the entry and you'll have exactly the same color23:55

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