=== DanaG1 is now known as DanaG === DanaG1 is now known as DanaG [02:51] kwwii, better tab highlighting in revision 60 [03:05] _MMA_, too === DanaG1 is now known as DanaG [04:14] Oh yeah, another random reference to look at for the newwave: [04:14] http://stardockdesign.wincustomize.com/skins.aspx?skinid=6287&libid=1 [04:14] Solarion theme. [04:16] * DanaG forgot whose theme that New Wave is [08:39] kwwii, ping [08:58] Oh yeah, try the Nodoka engine some time in OpenOffice, and take a look at how the scrollbars there look -- it's essentially a squared version of the round thing. Any chance you could replicate that, at least? [08:58] If you got that and the focus thing (as well as the progress bar, which doesn't quite match), it'd be perfect. [08:59] Rounded scrollbars are a small thing to sacrifice in exchange for cool things like RGBA. [09:28] progress bar? what's wrong? [10:46] CimiDS: pong [11:16] upgrade to r61 [11:32] Oh yeah, progress bar... perhaps I'm misremembering. [11:32] Oh yeah, I think it did look the same. [11:32] Never mind. === njpatel is now known as njpatel_at_docto === njpatel_at_docto is now known as njpatel === ambri1 is now known as ambrin [18:30] ATTENTION: since murrine r64 "style" option was renames to "profile" [18:32] <_MMA_> Cimi: Thats going to break *alot* of themes. Unless you've added some kinds legacy support. [18:32] <_MMA_> *kinda [18:33] you are using svn, svn can break API [18:33] canonical is being too secretive about their in-house theme team [18:33] there's legacy support for stable API [18:34] <_MMA_> Cimi: Regardless of what *Im* using, once released, its going to break alot of themes. [18:34] <_MMA_> Ok. Good. [18:34] no :) [18:34] Starks: I didn't know there was one [18:34] intrepid's theme will be in-house [18:34] style is an optionintroduced in the svn [18:35] so i shouldn't worry about breaking themes [18:35] isn't it? :) [18:35] <_MMA_> Cimi: Ok. Im mistaken then. I was thinking about something else. [18:36] <_MMA_> andreasn: Don't feed the trolls that come into a room, spout crap about things they don't have the facts. [18:37] http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=916316 [18:37] _MMA_: oh, sorry. I just never heard of a inhouse team [18:38] oh, that sounds like a hen out of a feather (or whatever it's called) [18:39] <_MMA_> andreasn: There is a new art director. Is supposed to plan for the future. Coordinated branding/look&feel across Ubuntu. [18:39] _MMA_: cool [18:40] hope things turn out good then [18:41] <_MMA_> andreasn: What's your idea of "good"? :) [18:42] nothing special really, but better than now I would hope [18:42] <_MMA_> What's your idea of "better"? :) [18:43] <_MMA_> Really. It's all crap opinion. :) [18:43] * _MMA_ thinks "good" is everything on my desktop is some shade of chocolate. :P [18:43] I would be very surprised if we're now at the point of the ultimate look & feel of the free desktop [18:43] <_MMA_> Which you think would be? :) [18:44] that I do not now? [18:45] <_MMA_> ? [18:45] <_MMA_> You mean: "That, I do not know." ? [18:45] ah, yes [18:45] <_MMA_> np [18:46] I started taking a English class last night, we learned periods and commas, but apparently I wasn't paying enough attention :) [18:46] <_MMA_> :) [18:46] <_MMA_> Your English is better than Cimi's. :P [18:47] but it's really interesting, because English use commas a _lot_ more than Swedish [18:47] <_MMA_> I'm also sorry. I'm just trying to cut through all the generic opinion as of late. I read so much opinion that lacks substance. It's always, "I don't know what I like. I just know I don't like that.". That has been the issue with Mark around here for instance. [18:47] the Swedish grammar rule is something like "use a comma when you need to breathe" [18:48] <_MMA_> So now, I hope to move away from being held to his whim. [18:48] <_MMA_> Unless artists *want* to. [18:48] <_MMA_> andreasn: Yeah. English is only /kinda/ like that. [18:49] * thorwil is unsure about about commas in english [18:49] oh, well, I certainly have some ideas of where I would personally like to improve GNOME in terms of less noise, less cuteness, proper use of layout, consistency etc [18:49] but don [18:49] but I don't tend to do stuff at the Ubuntu level, but at the GNOME level [18:49] I just hang out in here :) [18:50] but yeah, I can understand your frustration [18:52] <_MMA_> andreasn: Sure. I know why you're in here. I wouldn't give shit about Ubuntu. :) I do plan to shake things up around our little corner of the interweb. [18:52] _MMA_: "So now, I hope to move away from being held to his whim." - fits nicely to the text i'm drafting where i explain that mark cannot be the target audience / is not likely to represent a worthwhile target audience [18:54] <_MMA_> thorwil: Thing is. I'm not sure *we* have to define one. My thought atm, is to let people create things that feel ubuntu and put them in a package based on popularity and technical, um, capibility. The work well. No bugs. [18:54] <_MMA_> Don't know how to say that right atm. [18:56] _MMA_: we all always work with at least some assumptions about the audience. even if we just exclude children and grannies. can only help to have it written down [18:56] _MMA_: but i'm far less adamant about that than troy :) [18:57] <_MMA_> :) [18:57] <_MMA_> Here's the thing though. [18:58] <_MMA_> If we're not aiming for default, Why should we be restricted to audience? [18:58] to have guidance and internal consistence [18:58] to choose the right words for our message [18:59] to me, there is not much place for a difference between aiming for default and aiming to be damn good ;) [18:59] <_MMA_> Why do we need a message? :) *Some* guidance can be restrictive and what "internal consistence"? [19:00] <_MMA_> To me, let the artist decide their audience. [19:00] <_MMA_> This is all very open still. [19:00] _MMA_: if you go all artsy doing-what-feels-right, you're right back on the i-like-this or i like that level [19:01] <_MMA_> And that can be fine. If someone creates a good theme, that feels Ubuntu as far as color cues, why can't it be used? [19:01] <_MMA_> Hell. Someone's vision of Ubuntu could be green. Should we exclude it? [19:02] it could and no [19:02] <_MMA_> Questions I still haven't answered for myself. [19:02] <_MMA_> It will need some debate. [19:03] you can't be all free for everything _and_ get away from everyone being a lone art warrior [19:04] but i'm no control freak. i want a stem of order and there can be chaos all around it [19:04] <_MMA_> Sure. But I think we'll need to find a balance that feels right for us. So far, I'm just dealing with the technicals. [19:05] <_MMA_> I'll get places for people to put their pink Ubuntu theme if the rest of our ML or whatever wants it in. :P [19:05] <_MMA_> s/places/packages [19:09] <_MMA_> Meeting in 1 hour. Either here or in #ubuntu-meeting. [19:10] <_MMA_> kwwii: Where's the meeting? [19:10] from Ken's mail: "A meeting is now scheduled for Friday at 19:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting." [19:10] <_MMA_> ahh.. [19:11] it is probably not on the fridge because I am too lazy [19:11] <_MMA_> :P [19:14] new wave bzr FTW [19:14] gtk, metacity, compiz, emerald, xfce, wallpaper, gdm, list, lock, and usplash [19:15] you'll get tired of those themes with the dark osX menubar [19:22] <_MMA_> chicken, motorboat, ice cream, paper mill, flu and santa [19:22] all lies! [19:23] well not agree [19:24] only the usplah is not ready yet [19:24] <_MMA_> WTF was there to agree or disagree on? :) [19:24] (21,22,59) thorwil: all lies! [19:25] dilomo: chicken, really? [19:25] chicken? [19:26] <_MMA_> hahahahahahah [19:26] <_MMA_> I'm so lost. :) [19:27] dilomo: look one line above mine [19:27] oooh yaah [19:27] it's all clear now [19:27] :) [19:27] <_MMA_> :P [19:28] d: [19:28] <_MMA_> Im a retarded for wanting to do this? http://gizmodo.com/5049073/homemade-human-catapult-provides-not+quite+safe-fun [19:29] no, retarded is not the word [19:30] woow [19:30] <_MMA_> Yeah, "awesome" is the word. :) [19:30] that looks cool [19:31] <_MMA_> Alternative KDE main menu: http://lancelot.fomentgroup.org/screenshots [19:34] nice [19:39] <_MMA_> Meeting in 20 mins. [19:42] #ubuntu-meeting is so scary, everyone can see us there 0.0 [19:43] <_MMA_> thorwil: Just imaging everyone in their underwear. :) [19:43] * thorwil freaks out [19:43] <_MMA_> *imagine [19:46] * _MMA_ pulls up agenda email. [19:48] but I cannot join [19:48] there's nobody in the chat rooom [19:48] you misspelled it [19:48] what [19:48] ooh [19:48] room* [19:49] dilomo: /j #ubuntu-meeting [19:49] /j #ubuntu-meeting [19:49] <_MMA_> dilomo: Or, don't paste in the room name. Pidgin does some crazy things with pasting to stop spamming. [19:49] /j #ubuntu-meeting [19:50] <_MMA_> Type: /join #ubuntu-meeting [19:50] oh boy [19:50] it's very important to not have anything in front of the / [19:50] <_MMA_> :P [19:51] ok [19:51] I'm in [19:51] thanks guys [19:51] its fill max [19:52] fill max? [19:52] full* [20:15] Ello Ello [20:16] Ken_V: -> ubuntu-meeting [20:16] KK [20:51] Ken_V, dilomo: http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/ibex_horns_22_4to3.jpg [20:51] it will not see much more refinement [20:52] it's good and should be include IMHO [20:52] well, i'm glad you like it :) [20:53] :) [21:05] <_MMA_> thorwil: Yeah. This should go in kwwii's package. [21:46] <_MMA_> boo [21:47] :) [21:48] <_MMA_> Ill be around for another hour or so. [21:49] * _MMA_ turns on a movie. [22:04] hi all, i have a question if anyone is around [22:07] * bcurtiswx pokes room [22:09] wow... a ghost channel [22:10] <_MMA_> !ask [22:10] Please don't ask to ask a question, ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely answer. :-) [22:10] haha.. ok [22:11] bug 269226 i have confirmed, but i know its not a firefox issue but a font issue [22:11] Launchpad bug 269226 in firefox-3.0 "Web page font rendering issues (palatino font)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/269226 [22:11] i need advice on what package I need to assign to this bug so it can be triaged [22:11] noone in the bugs channel knows [22:12] <_MMA_> bcurtiswx: Hmm... #ubuntu-devel will be able to tell you. [22:12] ok [22:12] thanks, _MMA_ [22:12] <_MMA_> np. For a D.C. guy. ;) [22:13] where u from? [22:13] <_MMA_> P.G County/D.C. originally. Now I'm In Raleigh. [22:14] Ah, i'm a Grad Student at George Mason [22:14] <_MMA_> Cool [22:14] originally from Rochester, NY [22:14] * _MMA_ likes upstate. Misses snow. [22:15] Me too, went to SUNY Oswego, snowbelt .. every winter at least 1 4-5 foot snowstorm [22:16] <_MMA_> Friends from upstate would laugh at a "blizzard in D.C" whenever the news said that. [22:17] yeah, i do [22:17] got like an inch.. people lost their driving skills. was the worst time on the roads i've ever had [22:17] <_MMA_> Oh well. I still miss D.C. and whatever snow it does get. The Mall looks great when it shows. [22:17] yeah, i plan on taking a metro trip there if it snows [22:18] i hear theres an ice rink at the sculpture garden? [22:19] <_MMA_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/metalmusicaddict/2087574914/sizes/m/in/set-72157603377813769/ [22:19] cute kid! [22:19] <_MMA_> bcurtiswx: Hmm... Might be portable. SOmething they put up in windet. [22:19] <_MMA_> gah [22:19] <_MMA_> *winter [22:20] <_MMA_> 2 years ago but yeah. He's cute. ;) [22:22] kwwii, poke me when you'll submit something, I'm interested [22:47] Cimi: not ready to submit anything yet [22:48] but if you want to see the work in progress, it is at http://sinecera.de/progress.png [22:52] Hmm, interesting... what's that? [22:53] just an idea [22:55] argh, line on Murrine tabs is thicker than I like... and the scrollbars are 'funky' (due to ill-fitting rounded outer corners). [22:56] Though the focus thing is a bigger deal to me. [22:59] Hackish as it is, I still like rounded, though. [22:59] Is there no way to draw it non-hackishly? [23:00] I don't know enough about GTK to do anything with it. [23:01] I should just learn to write an engine myself [23:01] and in a year or so I could write something myself and have it look like crap but only blame myself [23:01] Murrine just doesn't "feel" the same. [23:02] Oh yeah, I know why: the scrollbar shading is different, too. [23:03] And progress bars are drastically different. [23:06] Interesting... shading on disabled controls is also different. [23:08] Aah, Compiz zoom is handy for comparing these things. [23:11] Another handy thing: open one twf with one theme or gtk, and another with a different one. Overlay the two, and fade one in and out. [23:15] Murrine has much "harder" edges and gradients. [23:15] DanaG: decrease constrast [23:16] Aah, should I just post my metatheme somewhere? [23:16] no [23:17] just add contrast = 0.7 or what you like [23:17] The Nodoka one didn't have a defined contrast. [23:17] remember to use the latest snapshot [23:17] nodoka is ugly [23:17] gh [23:18] I like it... it's soft even with bright colors. [23:18] nodoka is murrine with some static options [23:18] Ugh, Contrast... doesn't do it. [23:18] if you're running latest svn [23:18] It does weird things. [23:19] add [23:19] I'll check if I'm using svn. [23:19] profile = NODOKA [23:19] "profile" rather than "style"? [23:19] contrast = 0.8 [23:19] yeah, I've changed it today [23:19] Oh, I don't have the SVN anywhere... I mean, I need to make an initial 'get' (or whatever it's called). [23:21] svn co http://svn.gnome.org/svn/murrine/trunk murrine && cd murrine && sudo apt-get install build-essentials libgtk2.0-dev --yes && ./autogen.sh --prefix=/usr && sudo make install [23:21] it will work [23:23] kwwii: mockups! [23:31] Are there also styling changes in the svn? [23:31] I noticed that the borders on things such as combo boxes are much 'harder' on murrine. [23:32] On Nodoka, they match the border around the button -- it uses that 'darkness' all the way around. The Murrine one has the textbox part more darkly bordered. [23:36] Aah, there are also differences in shading on disabled buttons. [23:39] and same with slider controls. [23:45] I wish Fedora had submitted patches, instead of forking [23:45] . [23:46] Grr... Fedora. [23:46] ... speaking of which, here's a leopard wearing one: http://www.skinit.com/skins/graphic_designs/bigcats [23:46] =รพ [23:54] DanaG: I don't like nodoka [23:55] also, as said, this is a matter of contrast [23:55] just decrease the contrast of the entry and you'll have exactly the same color