slangasekpitti: hmm, sqlite is still in main for intrepid; I think that was only needed for transitioning, and needs to be dropped now00:08
slangasekpitti: (throwing this at you on IRC because I'm in the middle of three other things, feel free to bounce it back at me later ;)00:08
=== superm1 is now known as superm1|away
User546anyone know anything about checksums?00:36
slangasek... yes?00:36
wgrantHmm. It is not encouraging to see somebody like that coming from a US tertiary institution.00:56
LaserJockwgrant: how so?01:18
slangasekeew, intrepid is creating /initrd.img and /vmlinuz symlinks in my root01:21
=== superm1|away is now known as superm1
wgrantLaserJock: I would have thought that university students should be smart enough to ask smart questions and not leave after 31 seconds.01:33
LaserJocksorry, I just got done teaching 20 freshmen how to use Excel, I better keep my mouth shut01:34
nixternaland they taught LaserJock why he loves windows so much!01:34
bryceScottK-laptop: xorg uploaded; displayconfig-gtk is a thing of the past.01:34
LaserJockwhat was most disturbing is that they were having a hard time figuring out Office 2003 as they were only used to Office 200701:36
wgrantLaserJock: Wow.01:36
wgrantThat's interesting.01:37
wgrantI didn't realise that we already had people who have only used Office 2007...01:37
LaserJockand I haven't even used Office 2003 so I'm not much help01:39
LaserJocknext week though I'm hoping we have our Xubuntu lab finished01:39
f4hyHi all, What is the correct course of action to request for a newer version of a package for ibex, or better yet how would I package it myself and get it included?02:19
slangasekf4hy: we're in FeatureFreeze for intrepid, so all new packages need to go through https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess02:21
f4hyslangasek, hmm, well thats too bad. BOINC is at an unstable pre-release version in 8.10, was hoping to fix that02:22
slangasekuhm, why doesn't the version number look like an unstable pre-release?02:23
f4hyslangasek,  would have to talk to the boinc guys about that, because 6.2.12 is not a full release for it.02:24
f4hyslangasek, even when your run it, under "about" for the manager it says everywhere "pre-release"02:24
f4hyalso, messages get sent from the server asking to upgrade from the unstable version02:25
f4hy"This is a development version of BOINC and may not function properly" is displayed under messages when first run.02:25
=== mcasadevall is now known as NCommander
f4hySo, to me that sounds like a bad thing, and do you think it would be reason enough for a freeze exception on it? or is the freeze a pretty hard limit02:26
slangasekthe guidelines for freeze exceptions are explained on the wiki page; the final decision on the risk/reward of any particular freeze exception here would be made by the motu-release team02:27
f4hy6.2.15 is the next stable release, and i think 6.3.0 is out. But i think it should at least get to the next stable02:27
f4hyslangasek, alright thanks. I guess I will look into it. I think 6.2.15 is upstream in the debian repos so hopfully that will help02:28
slangasekactually, Debian has 6.2.14 in unstable and 6.2.18 in experimental02:29
slangasekI wouldn't dare to guess which of those are unstable pre-releases or not02:29
f4hyslangasek, *sigh* that is unfortunate.02:30
=== NCommande is now known as NCommander
TheMusocalc: Hi/ Are you safe?05:01
TheMusocalc: As in, has your home been spared?05:01
superm1well it's not hitting until tomorrow/saturday i thought?05:02
superm1at least that's when we're getting all the rain resulting from it.....05:02
calcTheMuso: yea, for now the hurricane will start to hit around 6pm tomorrow it looks like05:16
calcTheMuso: but it looks like it is going east of us which is good if it does05:16
TheMusocalc: GOod to hear.05:16
calci went back to my place for now, if it looks bad tomorrow around noon i'll head back out05:17
calcfortunately the evacuation routes were much better this time, last time it took upwards of 20hrs to get to shelter for some people05:17
calci think they didn't really have a plan before, heh05:17
* calc headed to bed, bbl05:18
calci evacuated earlier than need be due to the bad experience before and the fact i have 1yr old son this time05:18
calcit would have been bad to have him on the road that long05:18
* calc really gone to bed now :)05:18
dholbachgood morning05:45
dokocjwatson: yes, waiting on 255275 (pitti needs to handle this, won't approve myself)06:04
ScottK-laptoppitti: I've left you Bug 269272 as a present for your archive day.  Enjoy.06:13
ubottuLaunchpad bug 269272 in displayconfig-gtk "Please remove displayconfig-gtk source and binaries" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26927206:13
ScottK-laptopbryce: ^^^06:13
* ScottK-laptop no goes to sleep and dreams of it going away while he is sleeping.06:14
=== nenolod is now known as laptopnenolod
=== nenolod_ is now known as nenolod
wgrantIt had a short life.06:25
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
persiadoko: The python-2.5 and openjdk-6-jre packages include some .desktop files to launch the interpreters.  These are not shown by default.  Is there a reason we want to ship the files?08:11
dokopersia: why do you care if these are not shown by default?08:12
dokohmm, I would be surprised by a .desktop file for a java interpreter08:13
StevenKmobile-basic-flash shows them08:14
persiadoko: I care only because we're using a different menu system :)  I was surprised by both interpreter entries.  I see the point to openjdk-6-policytool.desktop, but not to python-2.5.desktop, openjdk-6-java.desktop or openjdk-6-javaws.desktop08:15
dokowell, it's policytool, not the interpreter08:16
persia-policytool is, but openjdk-6-java.desktop execs /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk/bin/java -jar08:17
persiaPerhaps that's only supposed to be a MimeType registration entry?08:17
persiasimilarly, python-2.5.desktop execs /usr/bin/python2.5 in a terminal, which seems a little odd.08:18
wgrantSo we have no significant theme changes for Intrepid, again?08:35
ion_That’s awesome, considering the theme that was the default in intrepid for a while. :-)08:35
wgrantNot a fan of NewHuman?08:36
ion_I could live with it if everything else didn’t have an eye-hurting contrast against it, most of the websites i frequent for instance. :-)08:37
pittiGood morning08:40
wgrantEvening pitti.08:40
StevenKMorning pitti08:41
pittislangasek: hm, but it still has 4 reverse dependencies08:45
pittislangasek: one of which is bacula, which we promoted fairly recently; sorry, didn't catch that in the MIR08:45
pittiScottK-laptop: yay! I'll hand this to StevenK who is craving for killing something :-P08:47
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
* Hobbsee looks up08:47
Hobbseedid someone mention killing?08:47
* NCommande wakes up08:50
NCommandeCan we use a chainsaw ;_008:50
NCommandemorning ScottK08:50
=== NCommande is now known as NCommander
sleepsterhow does one help the ubuntu dev?09:34
dholbachsleepster: check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted - it links to a lot of important information09:36
atari2600adon't mean to be annoying09:47
atari2600abut what's that apt-get arguement to get a system up into the 8.10 repositories?09:47
Treenaksatari2600a: this is not the channel for support, try #ubuntu+109:49
atari2600akay, thanks09:49
wgrantWhy is there Landscape advertising every time I log in?10:02
cjwatsonbug 26844710:02
ubottuLaunchpad bug 268447 in landscape-client "MOTD should not point to https://landscape.canonical.com if you are not a customer" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26844710:02
sleepsterso I should just help debugging MOTDs10:03
sleepsterin order to contribute10:03
Hobbseewgrant: because mneptok wants to deal with more painful users?10:05
persiasleepster: I'd recommend finding anything that annoys you, and which you can understand, and fixing that.  You'll get more involved from there.10:07
Q-FUNKhi! could anyone chekc bug #241307 and tell me what else I could do to help get this fixed at least for Intrepid (and preferably Hardy too, since Hardy is what broke it and it's LTS)?10:07
ubottuLaunchpad bug 241307 in linux "kernel oops during bootup in LTSP" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24130710:07
wgrantcjwatson: Thanks.10:07
sleepsterthanks persia10:07
sleepsterI just have all this time, so I am trying to contribute to a project I like.. which is this10:08
cjwatsonpitti: FYI firefox is in new with abrowser (in place of webbrowser); does it meet with your approval? I'd rather not approve it myself since I was involved in the naming discussion10:09
pitticjwatson: yes, I quickly discussed that with Alex a couple of days ago, and I can live with it10:14
pitticjwatson: I'll shove it through NEW today10:14
asacpitti: thanks ;)10:41
=== pochu_ is now known as pochu
tkamppeterpitti, did you also package Jockey 0.5alpha1 for Ubuntu Intrepid?11:03
pittitkamppeter: yes, just uploaded11:04
tkamppeterpitti, Thanks11:04
Riddellpitti: about bug 269314, who's alberto?11:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 269314 in jockey "Adapt KDE interface to new UI workflow" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26931411:06
pittiRiddell: tseliot11:06
Riddellah, top bloke11:06
tseliotRiddell: right11:06
cjwatsonI always thought he was a bit of a waste land11:06
tseliotcjwatson: that's a good one11:06
cjwatsonsorry, short notice and all that :)11:07
* Riddell doesn't get it11:07
cjwatsonoh, I should have used "a bit hollow", that's a much better reference11:07
cjwatsonRiddell: "The Waste Land" by T. S. Eliot11:07
* pitti is confused11:07
tseliotRiddell, pitti: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._S._Eliot11:07
tseliotand http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Waste_Land11:08
tseliotcjwatson: how come do you know Eliot?11:09
cjwatsontseliot: I don't particularly well, but it's hard to grow up in the UK without at least picking up a few references11:12
pitticjwatson: oh, did you clean up NEW? when I looked earlier, there were still 44 packages, and now my current accept tells me it's down to 811:14
pitticjwatson: thank you11:14
tseliotcjwatson: aaah. I studied Eliot in my 1st exam at the university but I had never heard of him before. I live in Italy, after all11:15
cjwatsonpitti: I did language packs and smart, yes11:15
cjwatsononly five minutes or so11:15
pittiasac: just looked at NEW; I still don't understand the structure11:16
pittiasac: abrowser-3.0-branding says "This is a meta package that will point to the latest abrowser package"11:16
pittiasac: neither is true, it's not a meta package, and is specific to 3.011:17
pittiasac: and there is no actual metapackage for it which would serve that purpose11:17
pittiso how is this meant to work?11:17
pittiasac: i. e. will you remove that bit from the abrowser-3.0-branding description and upload another version which actually *has* an "abrowser" metapackage?11:22
pitticjwatson: since you were involved in the discussion, do you happen to know how that's supposed to look like? ^11:25
asacpitti: there should be an abrowser package11:25
pittioh, of course, it's arch:all, sorry11:25
asacpitti: description can be fixed afterwards (when i fix the branding package)11:25
asacplease dont block this on that11:25
pittiasac: no, I won't; sorry, I missed that one11:25
asacthe branding package still ships files called awesome- ... basically because fixing that requires a new orig.tar.gz11:26
asacok thanks11:26
pittiasac: oh, both packages replace firefox-3.0? is that intended?11:27
pittiasac: NEWed to main11:28
asacpitti: thanks. ill look at the replaces. i didnt touch them since i first did those packages (just renamed). so i dont remember for sure right now11:29
asacpitti: ah .. yes both branding packages replaces firefox-3.0 because they ship files previously in that package11:30
tkamppeterpitti, downloaded Jockey 0.5 from Launchpad and rebuilt, "Details" button at "License: Free" does not work (driver splix from OP).11:30
pittiasac: ah, maybe it should be versioned then11:30
pittitkamppeter: ah, indeed, that still needs to be fixed11:30
pittitkamppeter: second11:31
asacpitti: yeah. but i ran into versioned replaces issues in the past ... basically because hardy firefox will get a higher version on new security uploads11:31
asacpitti: so thats the best i could come up here (without risking to break hardy -> intrepid)11:31
pittiasac: should be (<< 3.0.2+build3+nobinonly-0ubuntu2)11:31
pittiasac: i. e. the current version that has the split packages11:31
asacpitti: yes. but hardy will soon have 3.0.311:31
pittioh, if hardy gets 3.0.311:31
pittiindeed, nevermind then11:31
asacpitti: i know its not nice. but its ok that way imo11:32
pittitkamppeter: bug 26935211:33
ubottuLaunchpad bug 269352 in jockey "Details button in GTK UI does not work" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26935211:33
tkamppeterpitti, and the new driver list display is a one-timer. I run jockey-gtk twice, the first time all is OK, the second time only "splix" appears at the top and the details do not appear, also the action button stays grayed out, containing the label "Action".11:33
pittitkamppeter: where do you run that from? the current 0.5 intrepid package, or a bzr branch, or trunk?11:34
pittiliw: does python-fstab have a FF exception? is it needed for intrepid?11:35
tkamppeterCurrent 0.5 Intrepid package. I downloaded the source package from LP, as it is not on the mirrors yet. Then I rebuilt on an Intrepid box.11:35
pittiliw: (it's in source NEW)11:35
bigoncould someone uplaod my SRU for bug 255307 to -update as the fix has been confirmed to fix the issue11:36
pittitkamppeter: hm, can you please file a bug about it with the details? please also include "jockey-gtk --list" output11:36
ubottuLaunchpad bug 255307 in pymsn "Can't connect to msn accounts" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25530711:36
pittibigon: will walk over SRU in a bit11:36
=== NCommander is now known as mcasadevall
=== mcasadevall is now known as sonicmctails
=== sonicmctails is now known as NCommander
ograpitti, is the code jckey uses to determine if restricted HW is there big ? i wonder if we could use that same code in the lrm initscript/initramfs scripts ... lrm eats at least about 5secs of your boottime for initializing even if teher is no HW that it needs11:45
pittiogra: what is "restricted hardware"?11:47
ograwell, HW that needs restricted drivers i meant indeed :)11:47
ograi would like to see lrm off by default until uts actively used11:47
pittiogra: hm, what does lrm do during that time, link the .ko for the various wifi drivers?11:47
ograit mounts the tmpfs etc11:48
pittiogra: it does not install/contain the video drivers any more11:48
ograand wastes your ram and your bootime11:48
pittiand the wifi drivers should by and large be handled like normal kmods11:48
ograimho it shoulndt bs sued/started at all until jockey has the chekmark set for the first time11:49
pittiogra: yes, indeed it should check whether it already built the .ko files and don't do all that magic then11:49
pittiogra: but jockey depends on the .ko files and the modules.aliases to be present and current11:49
ograhttp://mg.pov.lt/hardy-20080822-1.png ... that wastes 5 secs for lrm-manager and friends11:49
pittiso jockey can't know whether your wifi card needs a restricted driver, unless we have it available already11:49
pittiogra: well, that's not entirely true actually, since eventually we can use an online DB, but ATM we don't, we just use local modalises11:50
pittiogra: so one possibility would be that lrm shipd the modaliases pre-generated and then checks whether there is hardware which matches any of those, and then builds the .ko files11:50
pittiogra: that part of the code is reasonably isolated11:51
pittibut it still takes a second or two11:51
ograwell, i see S07linux-restricted-modules running there, firing off lrm-manager which then spawns ld_static11:51
ograimho S07linux-restricted-modules shouldnt happen at all i.e. only if enabled deliberately through an /etc/default file11:52
ograwhich can be seeded by jockey11:52
pittiogra: but we don't want all users to use jockey just to get their wifi card working, which would otherwise Just Work(tm) out of the box11:52
ograi think i misunderstood jockey then ... i thought its for all restricted drivers, not only fglrx and nvidia11:53
ograbut indeed that wlan example makes sense11:53
pittiogra: you can indeed use it to disable those restricted drivers, yes11:54
dokooha, a user submitting a bug report about a failed gmail login \o/11:56
pittiogra: the problem is that jockey relies on modalias files (it needs to get the hardware -> driver mapping from somewhere, after all, and so far modalias files are the standard means to do it11:59
pittiogra: but as I said, I think the built .ko files should be cached and not rebuilt/rechecked on every boot12:00
ograok, i'll take a look at that in jaunty ...12:00
ogramy usecase is that i want to just install linux-generic in ubuntu-mobile for netbooks but 90% of them dont use restricted HW at all12:00
ograthough there might be someone with a USB nvidia card or somehing similar weird so i dont want to lose the functionallity in general12:01
pittiUSB gfx!12:01
pittidoes that actually exist? :-)12:01
pittiogra: wifi driver might be an issue12:01
ograi doub you find nvidia though12:02
pittiogra: NB that we don't install *any* nvidia bits by default in intrepid any more12:02
pittiwell, except their modalias lists12:02
ograyeah, it wasnt a really serious example :)12:02
ograbut in any case lrm is quite a serious waste of ram and bootime12:02
ograso it should work more fine grained12:03
=== NCommander is now known as NCommander_
=== NCommander_ is now known as mcasadevall_
=== mcasadevall_ is now known as NCommander
asacogra: ltsp installs > 30 users + firefox12:09
asacogra: what are your experiences?12:09
ograi have no 30 clients :)12:09
asacogra: you shoujld be subscribed to a bug of a user12:09
ograasac, i saw the bug and i see complaints on the ltsp ML12:09
asacogra: sure. i thought you might know people that have such installs12:10
ograone thing is that the session killig doesnt properly work if users just shut down the cliet HW12:10
asacogra: ok. so its a confirmed bug? i hoped its an issue in how its setup12:10
ograso you might have FF processes hanging around and keeping the lock12:10
ograanother issue might be that these admins dont regard that you cant use 30 times the same user12:11
ograand anoter might be that /home gets mounted dynamically on login from an nfs share12:11
ograit really needs more research12:12
ograone simple fact is that gnome-session doesnt seem to clean up properly on exit12:12
pittiogra: I think the main problem is that the license doesn't allow us to ship the .ko files pre-linked; that would make it so much more efficient and avoid all this runtime linking stuff12:17
ograpitti, well, but it should be easy to add a check to the lrm initscript and make it just exit if lrm isnt required ... i'll look into that for the jackalope :)12:18
pittiogra: not as easy as you think IMHO12:18
pittiogra: but it should indeed be easy to make the boot check much more efficient (if the .ko files are already there, do nothing)12:19
liwpitti, python-fstab hasn't got an FFe, I am going to ask for an FFe for system-cleaner once mvo (or someone) uploads it, and system-cleaner needs python-fstab12:19
ograi'm sure *something* will be possible :)12:19
pittiogra: indeed12:20
pittiogra: and since Jaunty's goals include "boot-faster stripes", it's an adequate target :)12:20
ograyep, and falls into my duties for ubuntu-mobile as well12:21
ograthoug we might not define startup as boot ...12:21
persiaThat's best bit about jackaloupes being mythical: one can use allegory to redefine the user experience.12:22
liwpersia, er, a non-existent user experience does not sound good12:23
ograbut that might even make sense for ubuntu as a default (never shutdown after first boot of the system but hibernate and make that very fast)12:23
liwogra, is there a power use difference between hibernation and shutdown? I guess not12:24
ograhibernate writes the ram to your disk and shuts down12:24
pittiogra: I almost always hibernate, yes (except for kernel updates, or from some time to time when there's a new X or large GNOME changes)12:24
ograbut you can very likely make the resuming extremely fast12:24
pittiliw: no, it's completely off12:24
ograif you profile and adjust that a bit12:24
pittiand booting from hibernation is faster than a "cold boot" (for me, anyway)12:24
pittibut it still takes ages12:25
ograso boot time only affects you on first reboot after install and for HW changes12:25
pitti(compared to windows)12:25
wgrantSuspend serves me fine.12:26
ograpitti, i bet that depends... virgin windows is actually fast ... my GF boots way slower than ubuntu on her XP with 5 years of installed apps though12:26
ograwgrant, suspend needs power12:26
wgrantExcept it takes ages (15-20 seconds) to suspend, but just a couple of seconds to resume.12:26
liwI have no machines on which hibernation works reliably, but resuming from hibernation always seemed to take more frustratingly long than just booting12:27
ograbut from a user POV there is no real difference between hibernate and boot12:27
pittiogra: there is a lot, it keeps all your apss open12:27
wgrantogra: True, but I can leave this laptop for a couple of days without it going flat.12:27
pittiwhereas gnome-session entirely forgot how to save/restore your session in intrepid, unfortunately12:27
liwogra, some tasks like cleaning up /tmp and periodic fsck needs to be handled in some useful way, if there are no semi-frequent boots12:27
pittiwgrant: I don't use suspend at home, because I take out the battery at home12:28
liwof course, those tasks should be handled in some useful way separate from booting anyway12:28
pittiand I don't want to waste power over night by leaving the plug and thus the AC adapter on12:28
persialiw: Depends.  Having a non-existent user-experience of booting might just be fixing /tmp and fsck differently.  What else is routine and need not be exposed to users?12:28
pittidoko: BTW, there is no need to create separate "SRU" bugs like bug 26929912:30
ubottuLaunchpad bug 269299 in glibc "glibc_2.7-10ubuntu4 for hardy-proposed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26929912:30
pittidoko: please just create hardy tasks for the actual bugs you fix12:30
pittiand sub ubuntu-sru to them12:30
=== pedro__ is now known as pedro_
pittimvo_: is bug 268052 relevant for intrepid? if not, please close the intrepid task12:34
ubottuLaunchpad bug 268052 in app-install-data-commercial "SRU for db2, opera, parallels" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26805212:34
pittimvo_: also, any idea about the failure in bug 241431 ?12:37
ubottuLaunchpad bug 241431 in update-manager "edgy to feisty upgrades fail due to use of old-releases" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24143112:37
mvo_pitti: let me check12:38
mptpitti, yes, that rosette icon12:38
mptpitti, having it scalable is a good idea, but I don't think it's as important as having the right icon in the first place12:39
pittimpt: hello12:39
mptUsing an Ubuntu icon isn't particularly meaningful in this context12:39
pittimpt: I sent you an updated status yesterday with an updated screenshot; let me know what you think12:39
pittimpt: well, I initially thought "tested by the %(os) developers", so I used "distributor-logo"12:40
mptslangasek, why do you take issue with it?12:40
pittibut the certification icon is nice as well12:40
pittiRiddell: hm, did you accept the hardy SRUs in https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kio-umountwrapper ? there is no LP # associated with them12:42
Riddellpitti: let me look12:44
mptpitti, yep, that looks good12:44
mptthough those not-installed icons are pretty alarming for something that's not even being used12:45
Riddellpitti: bug 18672912:45
ubottuLaunchpad bug 186729 in kio-umountwrapper "Cannot uninstall kio-umountwrapper" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18672912:45
mptpitti, is there a grey equivalent?12:45
pittimpt: the red bullet?12:45
pittiRiddell: ah, it got positive feedback; I'd move this to updates, unless you object?12:46
Riddellpitti: yeah please do, sorry about the missing bug number not sure how I forgot that12:46
pittiRiddell: no problem, it just leads to stalled processing; I'm just walking over all the old ones12:46
mptpitti, would you prefer feedback here or by e-mail?12:47
pittimpt: by email actually, so that I can work on it in the plane on Monday12:48
pittimpt: thanks12:48
asacif i do cat /proc/locks i get numbers like: 08:06:4767745 ... those include major/minor device ids12:48
asacany idea how i can see what major/minor device a nfs mounted partition has12:49
Hobbseeevand: how much has the installer changed since alpha 5?  I installed off it today, and noticed some bugs in it.12:50
ograasac, ?? nfs is a filesystem12:51
ograthere is no devices12:51
ograso no major minor device number12:51
asacogra: how would nfs locks show up in /proc/locks12:52
asacogra: ok. but is there something similar to a minor number?12:52
ograno idea12:52
ografor either of the questions12:52
asactoo bad.12:52
mvo_asac: the nfs root mini howto says "mknod /dev/nfsroot b 0 255"12:52
asacmvo_: ah12:53
* asac looks at nfsroot12:53
asachmm ... doesnt exist here12:53
ograwell, thats for rootfs on nfs afaik12:53
pittimpt: I didn't find another matching stock icon; "stop" maybe (gray rectangle, as in music players)12:53
pittimpt: but then I'd rather make the icon consistent to what is shown on the "Turn on/off" button12:54
mvo_ogra: (I missed most context and thought I just add the snippet of information I have :)12:54
mptpitti, actually I'd rather that button didn't have any icons at all :-)12:54
pittimpt: and that uses the 8-edge red sign wiht a white X12:54
mptpitti, because it competes for attention with the actual status icon12:54
pittimpt: if you say so12:55
ograasac, i case you look for firefox context, i think the /proc/locks stuff is kernel only12:55
ograbased on the flock system call12:56
asacogra: ffox uses fcntl and the locks show up as posix locks12:56
asacogra: the current issue i have is sqlite12:56
pittimpt: oh, another possibility: I could use the stock icons for "connected" and "not connected" (the plug)12:56
asacwhich appears to use flock and somehow breaks on nfs12:56
asacogra: well. i still want to verify that that lock without running pid is on that nfs partition12:57
asacbut i ma quite sure12:57
ograasac, http://www.time-travellers.org/shane/papers/NFS_considered_harmful.html12:57
ogralook for flock12:57
siretartasac: flock() does not lock files over NFS.  Use fcntl(2) instead12:57
siretartasac: see flock(2), section NOTES, first paragraph12:57
asacsiretart: exactly12:57
ograIn Unix, there are two flavours of file locking, flock() from BSD and lockf() from System V. It varies from system to system which of these mechanisms work with NFS.12:57
asacsiretart: i know about that12:57
mvo_asac: flock does not work on nfs (see flock(2))12:57
asacsiretart: however since 2.6.12 client its supposed to be supported12:58
mptpitti, is the "stop" icon the one Empathy uses for "Offline"?12:59
ograasac, lockd is usually responsible for locking on nfs btw12:59
ogramight be that we dont enable it by default12:59
ograsince ltsp switched from nfs to nbd i'm not up to date anymore :/12:59
asacogra: so. disregarding that sqlite should probably use fnctl, http://nfs.sourceforge.net/ says that flock is supported since 2.6.12 clients ... where can i see the client version?13:00
siretartlocking is btw the only reason why linux needs portmapper as nfs client...13:00
ograogra@osiris:~$ apt-cache show nfs-common|grep Version13:00
ograVersion: 1:1.1.2-4ubuntu113:00
amitkcjwatson: FYI: LPIA kernel is ready to be uploaded. This is an ABI bump.13:00
asacogra: is that really the client version?13:01
cjwatsonamitk: thanks13:01
ograasac, thats cntaining nfs-client13:01
asacogra: i looked at it and assumed that its too low given that nfs refers to 2.6.1213:01
cjwatsonamitk: 2.6.27-3, I take it?13:01
amitkcjwatson: yes. persia will upload it soon.13:02
pittimpt: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/STOCK_STOP.png and http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/STOCK_DISCONNECT.png13:03
pittimpt: DISCONNECT's counterpart (CONNECT) is a plug which is plugged in, STOP's counterpart would be "PLAY" (gray triangle, as in totem/rhythmbox)13:03
mptpitti, eek, stop definitely13:03
cjwatsonamitk: cool, thanks13:03
mptI mean, STOCK_STOP definitely13:04
pittimpt: and for enabled ones, STOCK_PLAY (more consistent counterpart) or STOCK_OK (the green check mark, better contrast)13:05
pittimpt: i. e. the one on http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/jockey-new.png on the button13:05
mptpitti, neither, whatever Empathy uses for "Available"13:06
pittiis there a screenshot anywhere? otherwise I'll install it13:07
mptor, if it exists, the green opposite of the red ones in that screenshot13:07
pittiit doesn't exist as a stock icon13:07
pittibut I can grab it from somewhere, of course13:07
zulcjwatson: can we get the tomcat-server added to tasksel please?13:09
pittimpt: heh, tango has nice icons for sun and moon as well :-P13:09
ograasac, i think that refers o the kernel module side13:09
ogra(sorry in a call)13:10
asacogra: no problem.13:10
asacogra: ill ask the reporter to go the hardway (e.g. find / -inum inode_no)13:10
pittimpt: ok, using empathy-available.svg then (copying)13:14
mptpitti, where did you get the bulbous red one from?13:16
pittimpt: that's one of GTK's stock icons (STOCK_STOP)13:16
Riddellhow do I report a bug in a translation?13:16
pittiRiddell: against language-pack-LL13:17
pittiand subscribe ubuntu-l10n-LL13:17
mptpitti, so is there a GO opposite?13:17
pittimpt: erm, sorry, stock icon for "No"13:18
pittimpt: and the opposite, yes, is the green check mark13:18
mptoh, bother13:18
tseliotRiddell: I have solved the problem with the label in jockey-kde13:18
pittiATM jockey uses NO/YES13:18
pittimpt: so now I could change it to STOP (the grey square) and the green round "available" one13:19
Riddelltseliot: ooh, how13:19
Riddellpitti: thanks13:19
tseliotRiddell: somehow an additional vertical layout ended up in the ui and prevented the ui from resizing properly13:19
pittimpt: you don't like the green check mark for enabled drivers? it's a stock one, so jockey wouldn't need to ship it13:19
Riddelltseliot: ah, how annoyingly fiddly13:20
tseliotRiddell: yes, I was looking anywhere but in the right place...13:21
pittimpt: oh, I just saw that the official GTK upstream GTK_STOCK_YES is indeed a green round circle, apparenlty that has been replaced with a checkmark in our ubuntu theme13:21
mptpitti, what I think would make most sense is a small, round, light grey bulb that becomes a small, round, glowing gren bulb when it's activated.13:21
mptgreen, rather13:22
mptI don't think it makes sense to use a checkmark, because it's too similar to a checkbox and because it understates the effect of the change.13:23
norsettozul: hi, was wondering if you could check bug 268762? Don't know much about xen myself so I could just talk rubbish13:26
ubottuLaunchpad bug 268762 in xen-meta "ubuntu-xen-desktop has wrong dependencies in intrepid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26876213:26
sorenzul: ^^13:26
zulnorsetto: yeah Ill try to have a look at it today13:27
norsettozul: much obliged13:27
pittimpt: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/jockey-new-stop_connected-icons.png13:31
mptOh, they're not even the same size :-(13:32
* wgrant cries.13:33
wgrantWhy is there a checkbox labeled "This driver is not installed"?13:33
pittiwgrant: it's not a checkbox, it's a "stop" icon13:33
mptYeah, that's a very Windows XP checkbox13:33
pittibwah, icons13:33
wgrantI thought it was a nice double-negative checkbox.13:33
mptor a Mac OS 8/9 close box13:33
mptWe need halp13:34
pittiI can has an icon?13:34
Hobbseepitti: noes.  no gummy bear, either.13:34
pittiwgrant: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/jockey-new.png is the current state13:34
wgrantWhat's wrong with a checkbox?13:34
pittiwgrant: s/box/mark/?13:34
wgrantpitti: That looks dangerous.13:35
mptwgrant, it's not momentous enough13:35
* mpt continues to suffer from a lack of good words to describe these issues13:35
wgrantDo those that aren't enabled actually need an icon?13:35
mptwgrant, I think that would look unnervingly like this window didn't know whether they were activated or not13:36
pittiI think the best way forward right now is to have lunch, before I entirely miss preparing myself for the release meeting later on13:36
mptwgrant, especially if all the drivers in the list happen to be turned off.13:36
wgrantmpt: True.13:37
wgrantAnyway, /me -> bed. Have fun working it out.13:37
kwwiimpt: wassup?13:39
mptkwwii, do you have time to draw us four small icons?13:40
mptfor the Hardware Drivers window13:40
_MMA_mpt: They have to be custom? There's nothing that conforms to FreeDesktop we can use?13:42
mpt_MMA_, no, see the previous 59 minutes discussion13:43
mpt(Also, it's an awkward choice of words to imply that "confirms to FreeDesktop" requires using no custom icons. The standard icon names never have covered, and never will cover, all the icons every app ever needs.)13:45
_MMA_mpt: I've seen most of it. And sure, not everything is covered there. I just don't wanna see more icons that cant be themed. As I'm heading an effort currently for a new set.13:47
_MMA_*new set for Ubuntu.13:47
ograas the guy who works wiht desktops that use 48px panels on touchscreens i'd like to bg you guys to use scalable icons :)13:47
kwwiimpt: send me an email with the description of what you need and/or a screenshot of the current stuff and I will see what I can do13:47
ogra*beg even13:47
ograthe human theme is a mess with that13:47
mptthanks kwwii, will do13:47
ograi have to use gnome on ubuntu-mobile to make te icons usable eith fingers13:48
* norsetto wonders about the size of ogra's fingertips13:50
Robot101huge, in comparison to the pixels on a high-res mobile lcd touchscreen13:51
ogranorsetto, they are 48x48px on 1024x600 7" screens :)13:51
ograwell, index is probably 36x36 :) but i use my fat thumb quite often13:51
cjwatsonzul: somebody needs to create the seed13:57
zulcjwatson: its already done in my branch ready to be merged14:00
evandHobbsee: There were a few changes that went in after alpha-5.  Have you created bug reports for these issues?14:02
ScottK-laptopStevenK: If you're still about, I also have Bug 269393 for you.14:02
ubottuLaunchpad bug 269393 in kde-guidance "Please remove kde-guidance source and binaries and guidance-backends binary from Intrepid" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26939314:02
Hobbseeevand: not yet.14:03
StevenKScottK-laptop: Always happy to remove stuff14:03
* ScottK-laptop figured.14:04
norsettoStevenK: If you're still about, I also have Bug 268713 for you.14:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 268713 in gail "libferret.so overwrite attempt - libgail-common versus libgtk2.0-0" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26871314:05
cody-somervillenorsetto, let the man sleep :P14:06
StevenKnorsetto: Aye, will do.14:06
norsettocody-somerville: why!? :-)14:06
cody-somervillenorsetto, A tired StevenK is a grumpy StevenK :P14:07
norsettoStevenK: thx, I knew I could count on you :-D14:07
norsettocody-somerville: just trying to make him happy ;-) (<StevenK> ScottK-laptop: Always happy to remove stuff)14:08
Hobbseeevand: ah, so i'm not mad.  I hit https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/264599 too14:08
ubottuLaunchpad bug 264599 in ubiquity "Intrepid: manual partitioner fails to use remaining space fully" [Undecided,New]14:08
cjwatsonzul: /wg 11214:08
evandHobbsee: hrm, ok14:12
Hobbseeevand: ah, most of the stuff I found seems to already be reported.  I hit  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/259713 (before a resize), and https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/264595 (after doing a resize), and found that / doesn't get automatically ticked to format by default.  I'm sure there's a bug for that somewhere too, but I can't find it right now.14:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 259713 in ubiquity "Intrepid alpha partitioner regression(s)" [Undecided,New]14:12
ion_112? Dayum.14:12
Hobbseeevand: I also had X blow up twice during the install, so had to install a second time, but I doubt that's due to you.14:13
Hobbseeevand: FWIW, i also found it non-obvious how to leave a partition the current size - it seems the field is there to only change it - i was afraid it would randomly resize my partitions if i did, or did not, change the values in that field - it's all just a bit unclear - particularly when it says sizes like '0' to start with14:14
evandI sure hope it isn't :)14:14
Hobbseefortunately, my14:14
Hobbseefortunately, my 'doze still works.  I was half expecting it not to, after dying the first time while partitioning.14:14
evandLeaving it untouched *should* leave it as is, but a bug like this throws everything out the window.14:16
Hobbseeevand: yeah....i think it probably would have, it was just the GUI that was unclear.14:16
Hobbseeevand: oh, and the timezone setter map thing is a nightmare - maybe it was because the window wasn't properly done, or something.  I'm not sure, but I found it very hard to actually select my location on it.  I thought there was a ffe bug to fix that, a while ago.14:17
Hobbseeso perhaps that's the improved version14:17
Hobbseeit also picked the wrong time, the first time around.14:17
evandYeah, there's still at least one fix needed for that, which will go in before release.14:17
Hobbseecool :)14:18
evandIt was supposed to be replaced by a *much* better version, but I ran out of time in implementing it.14:18
evandso that will happen for Jaunty.14:18
Hobbseeah, yes.14:18
HobbseeI see that bug now.14:19
norsettoevand: is bug 268115 relevant for you ?14:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 268115 in auto-install "Not actually a bug, just a big source of trouble" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26811514:20
mdzasac: the most recent firefox update gave me ugly widgets.  I don't see a bug report about it; am I the only one?14:21
asacmdz: ugly widgets?14:21
mdzasac: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/temp/Screenshot-firefox.png14:21
evandHobbsee: That sounds very similar to a bit from ubiquity-visual-refresh that mpt suggested, which I hope to sneak in with a UI freeze exception.14:22
ogralooks more like a theme issue14:22
mdzdifferent shade of gray, different drop shadow14:22
Hobbseeevand: interestingly, a friend of mine recently installed ubuntu, and got very confused on the partitioning section - had no idea what it was, so went with the defaults - all was fine, but there might be more you can do to make it newbie-friendly - maybe add a link with an explanation somewhere, or something.14:22
Hobbseeevand: good luck :)14:22
mdzogra: it's only firefox...but then, that's the only app I restarted14:22
asacmdz: yeah. thats the "default" gtk theme ... looks like your gnome theme is somehow not honoured14:22
mdzyeah, it affects rhythmbox as well14:23
asachmm ... at least the widgets. the icons are right14:23
mdzanything I start since the update14:23
evandHobbsee: I did add a visual representation of the partition table on both the automatic partitioning page (shows you the disk before and after) and the manual partitioning page (shows you what the disk will look like as you chang eit)14:23
asacmdz: sounds more like a theme bustage14:23
Hobbseethat looks like motif.  I saw that on hte livecd today, and wondered why that was there.14:23
evandHobbsee: so hopefully that's a helpful start14:23
asacmdz: what else was upgraded?14:23
Hobbseeevand: oh, that'd be good - but i think this particular one was the screen first.14:23
asacmaybe you need a restart of gnome session?14:23
mdzasac: lots14:23
mdzI just tried restarting gnome-settings-daemon and that made it worse14:23
seb128mvo__: there?14:24
mdzI need to reboot for the new kernel anyway, I'll just do that and it will probably sort itself out14:24
ograhuman-theme was updated on wed.14:24
asacmdz: thanks. lets hope ;)14:24
=== mvo__ is now known as mvo
Hobbseemdz: if you open up the appearances section, do you get a message saying human-murrine or something isn't installed?14:24
mvoseb128: yes14:24
asacogra: but does a theme update require a restart?14:24
asacogra: engine update i could imagine14:24
ograit shouldnt14:24
seb128mvo: bug #269215 looks weird, just to let you know in case you screwed something14:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 269215 in gconf "There is a problem with the configuration server. (/usr/lib/libgconf2-4/gconf-sanity-check-2 exited with status 256)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26921514:24
ograasac, well: * Added gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks to Conflicts and Replaces14:25
ogranot sure what that implies though14:25
asacoh ... so the engine has been removed ;)14:25
ograthe old one14:25
ograit shuld use murrine afaik14:25
asacogra: is there a replacement?14:25
asacah ok14:25
ograsince a while already14:25
ograbut only kwwii could tell :) i'm only following artwork loosely14:26
asacok. feels like changing engine during upgrade can cause such issues14:26
mvoseb128: thanks, I check it out, the diff http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17534395/gconf_2.23.2-0ubuntu2_2.23.2-0ubuntu3.diff.gz looks pretty safe though14:26
ograwell, the gtkrc shouldnt point to that engine anymore14:26
ograbut if you use a theme that does this might break it14:27
mdznope, that didn't fix it14:27
seb128mvo: indeed14:27
Hobbsee[23:24] <Hobbsee> mdz: if you open up the appearances section, do you get a message saying human-murrine or something isn't installed?14:27
seb128mdz: try opening the appearance capplet and see what is selected there?14:27
mdzseb128: my theme is set to 'custom' now14:27
mdzHobbsee: ^^14:27
mdzbut I have not changed it14:27
mdz"this theme wil not look as intended because the required GTK+ theme 'Human-Murrine' is not installed"14:28
seb128mdz: grep for gtk in the dpkg.log so see which themes got installed or removed?14:28
Hobbseeah yes, that's the error message.14:28
mdzii  gtk2-engines-murrine                      0.53.1+svn20080529-0ubuntu3           cairo-based gtk+-2.0 theme engine14:28
Hobbseeseb128: fwiw, that's also on an alpha5 cd, at least some of the time.14:28
mdzperseus:[~] grep 'remov.*gtk' /var/log/dpkg.log14:29
mdz2008-09-08 09:56:26 remove libgtk2.0-dev 2.14.1-0ubuntu1 2.14.1-0ubuntu114:29
mvoRiddell: could you please commit your changes to compiz into the compiz bzr?14:29
mvoRiddell: (probably just a forgotten bzr push)14:29
Hobbseetjaalton: oh, is there a new mesa to test?14:29
ograhuman-theme (0.24) intrepid; urgency=low14:30
ogra .14:30
ogra   * fixing problem in setup.cfg14:30
Riddellmvo: to compiz?14:30
ogranight have a typo or some such14:30
ograthe same upload removed ubuntulooks14:30
Riddellmvo: oh, that right, hang on14:30
tjaaltonHobbsee: yes, but if the drirc trick didn't work, maybe the new mesa won't either. but please, do test :)14:30
mvoRiddell: thanks14:30
Hobbseetjaalton: got a location?14:30
tjaaltonHobbsee: the archive?14:30
mdzHobbsee: you saw this as well? is there a bug open?14:30
Hobbseemdz: i saw it on a live cd today.  I've nto reported a bug so far.14:31
asacmdz: apparently the old engine was replaced by murrine14:31
Hobbseemdz: I've just checked the ISO testing thing, where nothing was raised - which is surprising.14:31
ograbut probably not in gtkrc14:31
* ogra just runs a dist.-upgrade and will debig if seeing the same14:32
Hobbseetjaalton: oh, i didn't think you'd uploaded it yet, with the upcomming alpha, and being uncertain as to whether it fixes the problem or not.  My mistake.14:32
ograbut i use human-dark here by default14:32
asacmdz: ah sorry. you already dealt with that14:32
ogra*debug :)14:32
asac(didnt see in my scrollback)14:32
tjaaltonHobbsee: it fixes the problem for me, and a couple of other users14:32
Hobbseetjaalton: ah, right.14:32
norsettoogra: you should really do something about your fingertips ;-)14:32
Hobbseezomg, argh!  human-dark!14:32
ogranorsetto, well, i'm better with cellwriter :)14:33
* Hobbsee curses custom-made white-on-white text.14:33
ograHobbsee, i use it on ubuntu-mobile so i try to keep it on my lappie as well to see issues14:33
* jdong ponders the wording human-dark a bit....14:33
HobbseeI don't have a human-murrine after installing.  I wonder if that's intentional.14:33
Hobbseeogra: ahhh14:33
ograbeyond that i really got used to the dark one, its slick14:34
Riddellmvo: hmm, ~compiz/compiz/ubuntu/ ?  I'm not in that team14:34
jdonghow come nobody ever told me about the dark variant?14:34
ograjdong, it was the default for quite some time during intrepid14:34
jdongogra: guess I've been out of touch then :)14:35
pittisorry, my computer crashed over my lunch break; I probably lost some IRC pings14:35
jdongsilly migrating hardy settings to intrepid :)14:35
mvoRiddell: ok, could you please push to oyur peronal repo and I will merge?14:35
dholbachsoren: what do I do about "serial0 console" in KVM again?14:35
mvoRiddell: or if you don't have it in bzr, I will do a debdiff and merge myself14:35
mvoRiddell: I can add you to the team too if you want14:36
sorendholbach: -v14:36
dholbachsoren: I have a intrepid session open in virt-manager and hit some keys and now it just says "serial0 console"14:36
sorendholbach: Oh. Heheh..14:36
sorendholbach: ctrl-alt-114:36
dholbachsoren: it's a black screen and whatever I press it won't let me go back to do my work again14:36
dholbachit sucks!14:36
dholbachthanks a lot soren :)14:37
sorendholbach: :)14:37
mvoRiddell: nevermind, I merged it manually14:37
pittimpt: I looked through the Tango icons; they do have an off bulb, but not a lighted bulb14:38
Riddellmvo: ok, i put it in ~jr/compiz/ubuntu/14:38
pittimpt: the closest I can find is a sun and a moon, as I said, but in small sizes they look clumsy14:38
Riddellmvo: including the change from the previous upload14:38
Hobbseedholbach: is it possible to get an address set for the ubuntu-core-dev team, or something?  I saw you did some team mangling, but it appears we're still getting mail from uninformed people assigning/subscribing us to bugs.14:39
dholbachHobbsee: I didn't do any team mangling14:40
mptpitti, ok, I'll sort this out with kwwii14:40
pittimpt: many thanks14:40
dholbachHobbsee: and I'm not a team admin, I think somebody on the TB might know better14:40
mvothanks Riddell14:41
Hobbseedholbach: ah.  Could you get it sorted out, or should I poke? :)14:41
dholbachHobbsee: it'd be great if you could ask what the status is there14:41
* ogra grumbles about the reboot notiifcation14:42
Hobbseedholbach: OK, will do - although i'm planning to head to bed.  Monday it is.14:42
Hobbseeogra: be greatful it's not like XP's...14:42
dholbachHobbsee: ROCK14:42
Hobbseedholbach: PAPER.14:44
infinityHobbsee: SCISSORS14:44
Hobbseeinfinity: *grin*.  I was wondering if someone would get the reference14:45
ogra_mdz, g-s-d doesnt start at all for me ...14:45
ogra_so my themeing is broken as well now14:45
=== ogra_ is now known as ogra
=== RainCT is now known as RainCT_
mdzogra: it starts fine for me14:47
mdzbut the theming is not right14:47
ograit segfaults for me14:48
ograoh, no it doesn, but exists14:49
ogragetsockname(12, {sa_family=AF_FILE, path="/tmp/orbit-ogra/linc-292e-0-4cae298d9ba0e"}, [44]) = 014:49
ograwritev(11, [{"GIOP\1\2\1\0\220\1\0\0", 12}, {"@J\303\277\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\34\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\315\340\270"..., 400}], 2) = 41214:49
ograclone(child_stack=0, flags=CLONE_CHILD_CLEARTID|CLONE_CHILD_SETTID|SIGCHLD, child_tidptr=0xb6e41748) = 1054514:49
ograexit_group(0)                           = ?14:49
ograProcess 10542 detached14:49
ogralogout/in fixed it14:52
ograand i found that gnome-panel couldnt resolve my hostname on login14:53
ograbut my dark theme is ok again14:54
ogratheme switching works as well14:54
RicardoPerezhi! anybody knows when will be the intrepid translations opened?15:01
cjwatsonthey already are15:01
cjwatsonfirst language packs went into intrepid last week, and https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid is open15:02
cjwatsonArneGoetje: did you mail ubuntu-translators@ to let them know about this?15:02
* ogra tries of the theme survives a new boot15:02
cjwatsonI've changed the translation focus (https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu) to intrepid now15:03
RicardoPerezcjwatson: great, thanks a lot for the response :)15:04
=== Zic_ is now known as Zic__
ograall fine even on a second boot15:05
ograthough i had no usplash on shutdwom15:05
=== mvo__ is now known as mvo
=== njpatel is now known as njpatel_at_docto
slangasekmpt: because drivers are not something that one turns on15:45
mptslangasek, that's begging the question a little, isn't it? :-) You do *something* to them to make Ubuntu think about using them when it wouldn't have before.15:46
pittiargh, again15:47
mpt"Activate" might be better, though I'm a little concerned that it's too close to "Use", when it doesn't necessarily mean that Ubuntu will end up using the driver at all.15:47
mptThen again, maybe "Turn On" has the same problem.15:47
pittibryce, tjaalton: since today, my computer hard-locks at some point of idling, I strongly assume it happens when X tries to switch off the monitor for screensaver15:47
slangasekmpt: well, the English center of my brain goes "hnyaaaaah" at the use of the phrase.  I can't offer you a more substantial argument. :)15:48
persiaHow about "Enable"/"Disable" ?15:48
Koonslangasek: about likewise-open, dendrobates told me you were working on a more-compatible PAM fix -- do you still want me to file a FFe for the 4.1.2982 update proposed on bug #262264 or would that be orthogonal to your efforts ?15:48
ubottuLaunchpad bug 262264 in likewise-open "Fails to join a domain: Unknown pam configuration" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26226415:48
slangasekpersia: that's what was there before, and has been rejected :)15:49
persiaBut there aren't any other good words that are both accurate and short :(15:49
mptpersia, "disable" is ok, but "enable" tends to be unhelpfully vague.15:49
slangasekI think 'Activate' is closer15:49
mptok, fair enough15:49
mpt"Activate" it shall be15:49
persiaBut what if the user "Activates" it, and it doesn't actually get loaded or used?15:50
slangasekKoon: ah, hold off on filing an FFe for the moment, please15:50
slangasekpersia: how is that different than enabling it and having it not be loaded or used?15:50
mptpersia, then the status text will say "This driver is activated but not being used."15:50
Koonslangasek: ok15:50
persiaslangasek: Well, when something is enabled, it might be active and it might not be: it's correctly vague.  When something is activated, yet inactive, it seems wrong.15:53
persiampt: How can something be activated but not active?15:53
slangasekto me, activated means that it's in a state that's ready for use, not that it's in use15:54
mathiazslangasek: I've reworked the landscape-client package, splitting it in two packages - here is the changelog http://paste.ubuntu.com/46261/15:54
ograpitti, do you have an intel card and use compiz ?15:54
mathiazslangasek: do I need to request a FFexception ?15:54
tseliotpersia: enabled (e.g. in the xorg.conf) but not in use i.e. the module is not loaded (e.g. if blacklisted, etc.)15:55
slangasekmathiaz: hrm, I thought splitting the package had been rejected as a solution15:55
ograpitti, there is a bug in compiz apparently that causes such things, i switched to metacity and the prob went away, Ng had a similar issue15:56
mathiazslangasek: hm - which solution are you refering to then ?15:56
pittiogra: yes15:56
Ngogra: pitti: see https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/26260515:56
pittiogra: ah, indeed15:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 262605 in mesa "[intrepid] X locks up or crashes when screensaver activates" [High,Confirmed]15:56
persiatseliot: Precisely.15:57
pittiuntil yesterday I had metacity15:57
pittisince gnome-session didn't get along with the compiz startup detection magic15:57
pittiNg, ogra: thanks!15:57
NgI believe tjaalton tracked it down to some mesa vblank thing15:57
pittibryce, tjaalton: this seems to be it15:57
slangasekmathiaz: the solution that was being discussed the other day was to adjust smartpm (as depended on by landscape-client) so that it's only available under /usr/share/landscape/, and proceeding with an MIR, I thought15:58
slangasekmathiaz: or is the smartpm dep itself an issue for CD size?15:58
mathiazslangasek: the pkg split for smartpm has already happened15:59
mathiazslangasek: this is another pkg split for the landscape-client.15:59
cjwatsonslangasek: this is arising from landscape-client having had a stub in desktop for a long time15:59
pittislangasek, mathiaz: and to keep the landscape-client stub on new desktop installs and upgrades, and only ship the sysinfo part on servers (AFAIUI)15:59
mathiazslangasek: ^^ - correct16:00
cjwatsonslangasek: we were just talking about this on the phone, and agreed to exchange mail about exactly what all the desired upgrade behaviours were before committing to a split16:00
cjwatsonsmartpm is a separate deal but also required16:00
cjwatsonanyway, we have a release meeting now ...16:00
tjaaltonpitti: try upgrading mesa and tell me if it still hangs16:02
pittitjaalton: oh, very fresh mesa? I dist-upgraded like 3 hours ago16:03
tjaaltonpitti: 7.1-1ubuntu216:03
pittitjaalton: and restarted my session today due to the kernel update, which caused compiz to run now; that's what triggered it, I assume16:03
tjaaltonpitti: yes16:03
pittitjaalton: awesome, will try (still have ubuntu1)16:03
tjaaltonpitti: the real fix will land in the kernel drm once upstream figures out what it is :)16:04
=== warp10_ is now known as warp10
pittitjaalton: ah, the changelog has an ill-formatted bug, thus the bug is still oopen16:10
tjaaltonpitti: I left it on purpose, since someone said that the drirc workaround didn't work16:11
pittitjaalton: ah, ok; I'll restart X and my session after the meeting and try, and comment on the bug16:12
pittito collect some testing data16:12
tjaaltonpitti: great, thanks16:12
mptkwwii, e-mailed16:13
slangasekpersia: are you available to stand in for mobile on the release meeting?16:14
persiaslangasek: Sure, although I've not prepared things.  Let me try to get someone else (or I'll stand in in a few minutes)16:15
cjwatsonsbeattie: (from #ubuntu-meeting) it's more or less http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/britney/cdimage/ with configuration tweaks)16:16
slangasekpersia: well, see mail from lool that he can't make it and he doesn't think davidm is available16:16
persiaHeh.  OK :)16:17
sbeattiecjwatson: thanks!16:17
kwwiimpt: got it, I'll see what I can come up with and we can discuss it more per email16:19
ograkwwii, did you notice mdz's theme probs (apparently showing up also on the liveCD)16:21
tkamppeterpitti, I have reported some bugs on Jockey16:22
pittitkamppeter: I saw them, thank you16:22
pittitkamppeter: something to play with on my long 11 hour flight to Portland next Monday :)16:23
tkamppeterpitti, WDYT when will you have the D-Bus API and the asynchronous D-Bus call bug ready so that I can make the patch for s-c-p and hal-cups-utils to ask Jockey for drivers?16:25
pittitkamppeter: you mean the bugs fixed? I hope I can do it next week, doesn't sound too hard; the general functionality is there, after all16:26
=== CarlFK1 is now known as CarlF1
tkamppeterpitti, I would like to do the s-c-p and hal-cups-utils part then and post an FFe.16:26
pittitkamppeter: nice; in either case it could already go upstream then16:28
pittitkamppeter: since I'll continue to develop jockey upstream independently of the intrepid release, too16:28
tkamppeterpitti, it will naturally go also upstream into s-c-p.16:29
tkamppeterpitti, it cannot even break Fedora when they do not ship Jockey, as if the D-Bus call does not succeed to contact Jockey I will simply let the error get ignored.16:32
cjwatsonzul: updated tasksel on its way16:32
zulcjwatson: thanks16:33
=== njpatel_at_docto is now known as njpatel
=== asac_ is now known as asac
calcyea this storm is looking nasty, i think i'm going to go to dallas after all, it circled back to try to hit us :\16:40
calcand i only have about 6-8hr left to get out before the wind starts picking up a lot16:40
davidmcome on up16:41
calcthe current model moved it back directly on top of our place (or within 1/2 mile anyway)16:41
calclast night it had moved all the way east of houston, so i was hoping it would be safe enough, heh16:42
davidmcalc, will you be bringing your sister too?  We have room16:42
calci can see if she wants to come along16:42
liwcalc, good luck16:45
tedgcalc: Oh, still choosing him over me -- I see how it is ;)  Drive safe!16:46
calcok well can't reach her right now so i'll ask her in person16:47
calctedg: its a matter of driving time, thank you very much for the offer though :)16:47
* calc hugs tedg 16:47
tedgI understand, I was just harassing you.  I do think you should stop tying and go though :)16:47
calcyep, i am breaking the stuff down now16:47
calcwind speed here will be TS level by 4pm16:48
tedgNice, current models don't have us getting over 30 mph.  They were predicting 50 mph last nigh.16:48
calchmm i'm surprised it went down for you overnight since the hurricane strenghtened since then16:49
tedgIt's going further east for us.  More missing us than less strength.16:51
sbeattiecalc: good luck!16:53
* calc shutting down now, should be leaving in 30m or so16:56
pittidendrobates: FYI, smart promoted, bug 260443 commented17:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 260443 in update-motd "main inclusion request: update-motd" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26044317:20
dendrobatespitti: could you please look at the update-motd mir as well?17:21
pittidendrobates: just did, see the bug :)17:21
cjwatsonpitti: is xinput OK to promote, do you think? xorg depends on it now17:22
cjwatsonit's pretty trivial17:22
dendrobatespitti: you are great, thanks.17:22
pitticjwatson: oh, sure; thought it was already17:22
cjwatsonI'll do that17:23
pittidendrobates: don't thank me until you see my ramblings about it :)17:24
cjwatsonheno: ^- xinput should fix xorg installability I think17:25
henocjwatson: great, thanks17:27
radixpitti: heyo, there seems to have been a problem uploading a change to smart that seems to have happened just as it was being added to main17:28
radixwe got some strange errors17:28
pittiradix: ah, "failed to upload"?17:28
radixpitti: sec, I'll find an URL for you17:28
radixI have email logs from the buildd talking about it17:28
radixthe state is "Failed to upload"17:29
pittiradix: yes, that happens if you promote a source while binaries are currently being built; soyuz quirk17:29
pittiradix: right, known issue17:29
radixwhew, I'm glad you know about it17:29
pittiradix: the easiest solution is to just have them be built again in about... 1:30 hours17:29
radixpitti: do I have to do something for that?17:29
radixor is it automatic?17:30
pittiradix: just ask any core developer to do so17:30
pittiyou can't do it yourself, I think17:30
radixright ,I'm not even a MOTU yet :)17:30
pittiradix: I think I'll still be online at that time, so shold I forget, just prod me17:30
henocjwatson: any chance we could respin a few images with these fixes so we can test our testing?17:30
cjwatsonradix: why the Pre-Depends?17:30
cjwatsonheno: sure, if I'm still around when it's time17:30
henogreat, thanks!17:30
hungerIs it possible to turn of stack smashing protection when building a deb for intrepid?17:31
radixcjwatson: ok, so smartpm-core installs a symlink /usr/bin/smart -> /usr/share/smart/smart; python-smartpm installs /usr/share/smart/smart17:31
radixcjwatson: smartpm-core invokes 'smart' in its own postinst17:31
cjwatsonhunger: -fno-stack-protector17:31
cjwatsonradix: that only requires Depends17:31
dendrobatespitti: those are completely reasonable and helpful comments on update-motd.17:31
radixcjwatson: does a Depend guarantee that the depended-upon package will be unpacked before the depending package?17:32
cjwatsonradix: you would only need Pre-Depends if you were invoking smart in smartpm-core's preinst17:32
cjwatsonradix: yes, absolutely!17:32
radixhumm, we actually found an error17:32
cjwatsonPre-Depends is usually not the right fix, and policy explicitly says that you must discuss new Pre-Depends17:32
cjwatsonprecisely because they're usually the wrong fix and complicate upgrades17:32
radixah. woops. :-(17:32
cjwatsonwhat was the error?17:33
=== SWAT__ is now known as SWAT
pittiradix: so, even easier then -- just get a fixed package uploaded, it should build fine17:33
mathiazradix: are you refering to the python-gobject bug ?17:34
mathiazcjwatson: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/landscape-client/+bug/26883817:34
ubottuLaunchpad bug 268838 in landscape-client "registrating clients doesn't work when installing the package" [High,New]17:34
radixmathiaz: no, this is about the smartpm-core/python-smartpm split17:34
mathiazcjwatson: I've used a Pre-Depends to fix the bug above ^ ? Is this correct ?17:34
cjwatsonno, it is not17:34
mathiazcjwatson: what would be the correct fix ?17:35
cjwatsonI'm not sure, but it ain't pre-dep17:35
cjwatsonseems like bug 12134117:36
ubottuLaunchpad bug 121341 in python-support "python modules need to work during dist-upgrades" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12134117:36
cjwatsonin any case having smartpm-core pre-depend on python-smartpm is a really nonintuitive approach to fixing a bug that's to do with the interaction between landscape-client and python-gobject!17:36
pittislangasek, tjaalton: can I have some 15 mins to catch up with some stuff and take a quick break?17:37
tjaaltonpitti: sure17:37
cjwatsonyou use python-central for python-smartpm so shouldn't run into this problem there17:37
mathiazcjwatson: hm - I think I've stepped in the middle of a conversation17:37
mathiazcjwatson: I think we're discussing two issues here.17:38
=== mvo__ is now known as mvo
mathiazcjwatson: but you're right that the issue I ran into (landscape-client) is related to bug 12134117:38
ubottuLaunchpad bug 121341 in python-support "python modules need to work during dist-upgrades" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12134117:38
persiamathiaz: The quick & dirty solution to your issue is for python-gobject to use python-central17:38
cjwatsonagreed, but we probably don't have the effort to do that across the board17:39
radixcjwatson: the smartpm-core -> python-smartpm is unrelated to the landscape-core -> gobject17:40
radixhowever, mathiaz and I are in the same office and may have created a shared misunderstanding of ideal solutions to these kinds of problems :)17:40
cjwatsonthe reason why Pre-Depends is generally undesirable is that it forces dpkg not to be able to use the usual approach of "unpack everything, configure everything"17:40
cjwatsonbut instead partitions the package set being upgraded into multiple unpack/configure chunks17:41
cjwatsonsometimes it is necessary, but should be kept to a minimum and other approaches found where possible17:41
cjwatsonloops involving Pre-Depends are much harder to solve, and sometimes impossible17:41
niemeyercjwatson: I'm investigating the issue here with radix and andreas17:42
cjwatsonPre-Depends/Pre-Depends loops are irresolvable, and Pre-Depends/Conflicts is a pain17:42
cjwatsonniemeyer: right, I'm just giving advice on the packaging metadata17:42
niemeyercjwatson: What should be the correct order if there are two packages depending on each other?17:42
cjwatsonniemeyer: undefined17:42
niemeyercjwatson: Not saying this is the case, just trying to figure it out17:43
cjwatsonniemeyer: in practice dpkg configures the ones without postinsts first, if any17:43
cjwatsonpackages do sometimes do that, and it's OK as long as it doesn't matter at maintainer-script time17:43
niemeyercjwatson: Ok, so the Depends unpack ordering is advisory only?17:43
cjwatsonerr, you misunderstand17:43
cjwatsonDepends enforces configure ordering17:43
niemeyercjwatson: So what's the ordering when there's a loop?17:43
cjwatsonyou don't care about unpack unless you have preinsts17:44
cjwatsonlike I say: undefined (unless one package is missing a postinst)17:44
niemeyercjwatson: Ok, I guess I see17:44
slangasekcjwatson: Depend doesn't guarantee unpack ordering, no...17:44
cjwatsonand that's an implementation detail of dpkg rather than a policy definition17:44
cjwatsonA Depends: B guarantees B unpacked before A configured17:45
infinitycjwatson: It's totally defined! *cough*17:45
cjwatsoninfinity: undefined by policy :)17:45
infinitycjwatson: Though I don't recall if it's alphabetical, or order passed to dpkg on the command line...17:45
infinity(often the same thing, when debootstrap is involved)17:45
niemeyercjwatson: Cool, so I believe it's a bug in the ordering of Smart then17:46
cjwatsonniemeyer: I'm curious why you think you're relying on unpack ordering17:46
cjwatsonare you *sure* it's unpack ordering? python packages often do lots of work at the configure stage17:46
niemeyercjwatson: For Smart that ordering is advisory but breakable depending on other relations17:46
pittimvo: as for your current compiz 1:0.7.7+git20080807-0ubuntu7 upload, it already does start automatically again?17:46
cjwatsonniemeyer: can you give me an example?17:46
niemeyercjwatson: I'm not entirely sure yet, no.. I'll join radix and andreas on debugging now17:46
mathiazpersia: right - I'll ask lool or seb128 about it17:47
mvopitti: there is a gnome-control-center upload needed for this. I'm doing that now17:47
niemeyercjwatson: I can't yet, but will have a better idea (and perhaps a fix) later today17:47
slangasekunpack ordering should really never matter except in cases where you do have a preinst, AFAICS17:47
infinityEven then, it almost never matters, unless your preinst does some pretty vile stuff.17:48
slangaseks/pretty vile //17:48
cjwatsonin the absence of loops: A Depends: B guarantees A configured after B configured. A Pre-Depends: B guarantees A unpacked after B configured. A Conflicts: B guarantees B removed (not unpacked) when A unpacked. A Breaks: B guarantees B not configured when A unpacked.17:48
mvopitti: gnome-c-c uploaded, should be good now (compiz should start again)17:48
infinityslangasek: Well, most of my preinsts only depend on Essential.17:49
slangasekinfinity: debconf preinst ftw :)17:49
mvopitti: actually, the compiz change is probably enough to make it auto-start, but it can't be turned off anymore :) that is the g-c-c upload for17:49
infinityslangasek: debconf hasn't been around for a decade, I refuse to acknowlege its existence.17:50
* slangasek blinks at bug #26836417:50
ubottuLaunchpad bug 268364 in ucf "Bug in /usr/bin/ucf when upgrading Hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26836417:50
pittiasac: bah, with the new ffox I constantly get the EULA displayed on startup17:50
pittimvo: hm, I thought the problem was in gnome-session; I dist-upgraded yesterday, and this morning I got compiz automatically17:50
niemeyercjwatson: Thanks for the summary, I'll ensure this is the case17:51
cjwatsonniemeyer: seriously though, if somebody actually tells me what the problem is, I may be able to help rather than just spewing rules :)17:52
niemeyercjwatson: That's the output they radix and ahasenack got: https://pastebin.canonical.com/9112/17:53
ahasenackcjwatson: the actual error is at line 115 of that pastebin17:54
cjwatsonniemeyer: oh, wow, definitely a Smart bug. It should pass *everything* to dpkg --unpack in one go unless there are packages there that declare Pre-Depends: on something that isn't configured yet.17:55
niemeyercjwatson: Cool.  I'm surprised that this didn't break up before.17:57
cjwatsonso am I17:57
niemeyercjwatson: Luckily, the ordering logic in Smart is done in about 50 lines with a high-level description17:58
cjwatsonhowever, you need a correct high-level description before this is an advantage :-)17:58
niemeyercjwatson: I'll just check which constraint from your description above is missing, and then post the fix17:58
niemeyercjwatson: That's what I was trying to say, but you beat me to it17:58
pittitjaalton: screensaver hasn't blown up yet, so this looks good17:59
niemeyercjwatson: I've tried to follow the policy document entirely, but I probably misunderstood it17:59
tjaaltonpitti: good :)17:59
cjwatsonniemeyer: you may have misread "installed" as "unpacked"17:59
cjwatsonhmm, no18:00
pittitjaalton: bug commented18:00
cjwatsonanything in policy that uses the word "installed" requires careful reading, but it does actually often mean "unpacked"18:01
pittitseliot: I'll disconnect my laptop from the dock and reboot, to do the test Bryce asked me to do; back in 518:01
cjwatsonshould probably get that fixed ...18:01
ykphuahasac: are you around?18:09
niemeyercjwatson: I think we found the issue18:13
niemeyercjwatson: The new python-smartpm package has a Conflicts relation with the old smartpm-core package18:14
cjwatsonah, heh, that's a bug in the package18:14
cjwatsonI actually thought about mentioning that when I saw it in NEW18:14
cjwatsonsilly me for not doing so18:14
cjwatsonReplaces is quite sufficient18:14
niemeyercjwatson: Doesn't that mean that both might be installed at the same time?18:15
niemeyercjwatson: Should we use Breaks perhaps?18:15
cjwatsonReplaces is good enough.18:15
cjwatsonit's just a file move18:15
niemeyercjwatson: Ok, cool18:16
cjwatsonI think this is still a smart bug, mind18:16
niemeyercjwatson: Right, that's what I was going to ask18:16
niemeyercjwatson: What's the specification about this situation?18:16
cjwatsonlet me just construct a test case and see what apt+dpkg does: I suspect it's: unpack smartpm-core, unpack python-smartpm, configure python-smartpm, configure smartpm-core18:17
cjwatsonI think that's the correct resolution18:17
niemeyercjwatson: Due to the Conflicts relation, Smart has put the upgrade before the actual installation of the secondary package18:17
cjwatsonright, but in the process it broke Depends18:17
niemeyercjwatson: Could be.. it depends mostly on what's the expected outcome18:18
cjwatsonif it had been Pre-Depends, it ought to have refused entirely18:18
cjwatsonbut Depends/Conflicts should be resolvable while satisfying both constraints18:18
niemeyercjwatson: Like, is it ok to have the conflicting package present during unpack?18:18
cjwatsonno, but in my proposed resolution you don't18:18
niemeyercjwatson: I guess you do18:19
cjwatsonno. the new smartpm-core is unpacked first and that's the only thing being conflicted on.18:19
niemeyercjwatson: Or maybe I misunderstood it18:19
pittimvo: hm, compiz seems to have forgotten to not start if it is already running in another X? I just get a blank screen now in the guest session18:19
niemeyercjwatson: Ah, gotcha18:19
niemeyercjwatson: I'll review the ordering for this case then18:19
mvopitti: and no fallback to metactiy either?18:20
niemeyercjwatson: Thanks a lot for these details18:20
mvopitti: compiz works only on the first head that is a know issue18:21
pittitjaalton: I commented on bug 26762818:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 267628 in f-spot "f-spot.exe crashed with SIGSEGV in _dl_close() (dup-of: 189335)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26762818:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 189335 in f-spot "f-spot.exe crashed with SIGSEGV" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18933518:21
niemeyerWe'll have lunch and fix it once we're back.18:21
mvopitti: but it should fallback to metactiy18:21
pittimvo: well, maybe it does fallback, but since it at first tries to start as compiz, I get the white screen and can't see anything18:21
mvopitti: can you give me the output of ~/.xsession-errors in the guest session?18:22
pittimvo: while it failed? sure, let me try18:22
pittimvo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/xsession-errors18:25
pittimvo: this is after a full startup of guest, judging by the changing mouse cursor (which is the only thing I see)18:26
mvopitti: that is on your intel i945 or 965?18:27
liwmvo, any progress on system-cleaner? (still not pushing :)18:28
pittimvo: 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller18:29
cjwatsonmvo: he may not be pushing, but I am. :)18:29
cjwatson(feature goal, already late)18:30
mvoI have a look in some minutes18:30
mvopitti: thanks, I suspect its a x bug that it pretends to be able to have a second dri capable head. what is the output of glxinfo in the guest18:31
asacykphuah: more or less18:32
pittimvo: I guess that I can do that with metacity, too?18:34
mvopitti: yes that should work18:34
* pitti h4x0rs /usr/bin/compiz again18:34
cjwatsonmvo: thanks18:35
pittimvo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/glxinfo.primarysession.txt and http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/glxinfo.guest-session.txt18:36
mvopitti: hm, that looks like X pretends to be able to deal with that, I ask on #ubuntu-x18:38
pittimvo: shall I file a bug about this? with those two files attached?18:38
mvopitti: yes, I think that is a good idea, we can then reassign between x and compiz if needed, but for now I think its X :)18:40
* mvo wonders if it is just him or if the name "easystroke" sounds slightly odd18:41
cjwatsonit sounds like it would be best-placed in Soho18:42
=== bddebian2 is now known as bddebian
mvopitti: it looks like tjaalton found the answer already I will add a workaround to the compiz wrapper18:48
pittimvo: bug 26950918:48
ubottuLaunchpad bug 269509 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "white screen on second session with compiz: pretends to have a second DRI capable head where it doesn't" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26950918:48
pittitjaalton: you rock, fixing bugs faster than I can even report them :)18:49
tjaaltonpitti: heh :)18:49
* mvo hugs tjaalton18:49
* tjaalton hugs mvo18:49
pittimvo, tjaalton: so is it actually a bug in the driver, and mvo's change in compiz is just a workaround? or shall we assing above bug to compiz straight away?18:50
mvopitti: I would maintain its a driver bug, but it seems to be easy enough in compiz to work around it18:51
mvopitti: so a x and a compiz task is probably the right answer18:51
mvoI would still be interessted in the answer from X upstream if the glxinfo output shoudl be "DRI: no" or not18:52
pittimvo: right, agreed18:52
pittidoko: ppl binary-NEWed (just libppl-doc, rest was already from libppl), and libppl removed18:59
dokopitti: binary libppl-c-dev removed as well? and the ppl blacklist for syncs removed?19:00
tjaaltonpitti: it's a driver bug, but it's also well known upstream. Needs all the new stuff that's been on the works (and that might not be enough.. not sure)19:00
pittidoko: yes and yes19:00
rom1vis there a way to disable the history (logfile) which logs every task we do on the computer : ~/.recently-used and ~/.recently-used.xbel19:01
JontheEchidnapitti: about bug 263017, should I just attach a debdiff to the bug or would a jockey-hacker have to make the changes in bzr?19:01
ubottuLaunchpad bug 263017 in jockey "jockey-kde crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26301719:01
pittiJontheEchidna: debdiffs are fine; you can of course also create your own branch, fix it there, and propose for merging, but that's quite some effort for a two-line patch :)19:02
pittiJontheEchidna: please assign the bug to me if you attach a patch; thanks!19:02
JontheEchidnapitti: ok, I'll attach it in a second19:03
pittiJontheEchidna: ah, seems easy enough; no debdiff required19:03
pittiJontheEchidna: if you have fun doing them, go ahead, but "missing dependency" is trivial enough19:03
JontheEchidnasee, that's why I asked ;-)19:03
pittiJontheEchidna: fixed in bzr19:05
pittiJontheEchidna: I'll also adapt the dependency description upstream in README.txt19:06
mathiazseb128: lool: I'm currently blocked by bug 121341. What do you think about moving python-gobject to use python-central rather then python-support ?19:08
ubottuLaunchpad bug 121341 in python-support "python modules need to work during dist-upgrades" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12134119:08
mvoliw: do you have a packaging branch for system-cleaner?19:08
pittimathiaz, seb128: could then also use DH_PYCENTRAL=nomove if it is enough to work with python 2.5 (and not with 2.4)19:09
liwmvo, bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Esystemcleaner-hackers/systemcleaner/trunk.deb-packaging/19:09
pittibut for such a central package this might not be an option19:09
pittiso long, good bye everyone! I'm off next week for the Linux Plumbers Conf19:12
slangasekmathiaz: ping19:18
mathiazslangasek: yop19:18
slangasekmathiaz: are you set up to be able to test likewise-open?19:18
mathiazslangasek: not really :/19:18
slangasekI'm not, someone's changed around the VMware guests again19:19
* slangasek mumbles 19:19
mathiazslangasek: dendrobates may be19:19
slangasekok, I can't really check whether likewise-open dtrt with PAM if I can't do a test join19:19
slangaseknah, he pointed me at you ;)19:19
slangasekwell, for the moment I'll resort to old-fashioned code inspection then19:19
geserwhen a package gets added to P-a-S are the debs for the other archs automatically removed on the next upload?19:19
slangasekgeser: no19:20
dendrobatesslangasek: coffedude is on and off line today, due to a family issue, but you might email him the diff.19:20
slangasekgeser: only the buildds look at P-a-s, package removals from the archive have to be done by an archive admin19:20
slangasekdendrobates: it's his diff that I'm trying to vet :)19:20
slangasekI haven't even gotten that far yet19:20
geserslangasek: so a removal request should be filed for the now unsupported archs?19:21
slangasekgeser: yes, please19:21
=== philwyett_ is now known as philwyett
cjwatsonniemeyer: I've verified that the behaviour of 'dpkg -i' in this case (when given both packages on the command line at once) is as I described (unpack smartpm-core, unpack python-smartpm, configure python-smartpm, configure smartpm-core), so that should be considered canonical19:32
cjwatsonniemeyer: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/smartbug.tar.gz contains test cases; run 'make test'19:36
niemeyercjwatson: Wow, that's awesome.  Thanks a lot.19:38
geserkees: re bug 262843: have you tried already 2.6.27-3.4? I'm using it now (for some hours) and didn't see this problem yet with this version20:01
ubottuLaunchpad bug 262843 in linux "[2.6.27-2.3] (sometimes temporary ?!) system deadlock with io_schedule " [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26284320:01
keesgeser: yeah, I pulled it down last night, but haven't rebooted yet (I'm on 1.2 at the moment)20:09
bigBearwhy did they choose 2.6.27?20:17
geserkees: looks like -3.4 has still the problem :(20:48
jlcIs there a list of boot options some were for the install cd?  Alpha 5 installer crashes on my system, I'll need to reboot and capture the error again, just wondering what options there are for kernel boot21:03
Treenaksjlc: have you tried the 'photo camera' option? :P21:04
jlci come from a rh/fedora side, and have used ubuntu off/on but dont know all the options yet21:05
keesgeser: feh.  that sucks21:05
jlcis #ubuntu-testing channel more for users using testing releases?21:06
thomor #ubuntu+121:07
jlccool, thanks21:07
jlcI'll just lurk here21:07
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lfaraone|ffmHey, how do I request that my wikiusername be changed?21:26
cjwatsonit's just your Launchpad username now isn't it?21:30
lfaraone|ffmcjwatson: I changed my lp name, and that didn't cross over to w.u.o21:34
cjwatsonlfaraone|ffm: hmm, I don't know; try #canonical-sysadmin21:35
psufanwhich one of you canucking geniuses decided it would be cut to turn on super anal justify mode in 6.06 lts21:49
psufanso that every goddamn time I try to move a line it puts them all together21:49
psufanwhat trhe fuck21:49
psufanthis had to have been someone's idea of a joke21:50
psufan8.x is way better but 6.06 should have been named21:52
ubottuHelp! bhale, infinity, Hobbsee, jdub, thom, fooishbar, fabbione, mdz, lamont, or Keybuk21:52
ScottK-laptopPriceChild: Thanks.21:53
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pwnguinanyone know how big ubuntu-minimal is today?22:13
bcurtiswxMy question: bug 269226 has been confirmed by me, but I've found its not a firefox issue but a font issue.  Nobody in the bugs channel knows which package to assign, any advice?22:13
ubottuLaunchpad bug 269226 in firefox-3.0 "Web page font rendering issues (palatino font)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26922622:13
toresbeI'm still not getting any sensible data off the current loop console line on the PDP-11. I think it might be a wiring issue...22:19
toresbeoops, ECHAN22:19
_MMA_bcurtiswx: It's late in alot of the world, and a Friday. It might be slow to get an answer.22:21
bcurtiswxthankfully its not that important of a bug22:22
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