AliTabuger7Anyone care to discuss something?00:08
FlannelAliTabuger7: What's up?05:11
FlannelAliTabuger7: What's up?05:53
AliTabuger7What part of the marketing team are you from?05:55
FlannelWe don't really have "parts"05:55
AliTabuger7In launchpad we kind of do, depending on what you do.05:56
FlannelAliTabuger7: How do you figure?05:57
AliTabuger7For example, I'm a new member of the "spreadubuntu" team, which is a subteam of the Ubuntu Marketing Team05:57
FlannelIts not really a separate team as far as efforts are concerned, and it only exists to keep the bzr branch ownership sane.05:58
AliTabuger7Although, I probably should have been more specific, like what do you specialize in doing05:58
AliTabuger7As well as different responsibilities and focuses05:58
AliTabuger7Flannel: So anyway, what do you do?05:59
FlannelFor the marketing team?  Right now I'm concentrating mostly on the backend (well, the ... further-back backend) for SU06:00
AliTabuger7Interesting. I am pretty familiar with Drupal myself, which is one of the reasons I became so interested in helping SU06:01
AliTabuger7I've tried to read up on the mailing list. Are you doing the OpenID specialization?06:02
FlannelAliTabuger7: Nah, that's the not-so-back backend ;)06:03
AliTabuger7theming then?06:03
FlannelMe?  No.  I'm doing most of the nuts and bolts that no one will ever see, or interface with much.06:04
FlannelOr at least, if it all works properly ;)06:04
AliTabuger7I see06:04
AliTabuger7Well I signed up here because I wanted to 'attend' that meeting on sunday06:05
FlannelAliTabuger7: Sounds good.06:05
AliTabuger7is there a bzr branch that you are using that I could check out?06:06
FlannelAliTabuger7: I'm doing the bzr <-> website DB stuff.  Or at least, I'm supposed to be :)  My LoCo had me pretty busy there for a bit.06:06
FlannelAliTabuger7: Not much code yet, lots of reading bzr documentation (and learning python).  Unfortunately, bzr isn't too well documented unless you're going to use it for VC or hack it to add features.  Of which we're doing neither.06:07
AliTabuger7Well I would love to see some kind of framework so I could help or at least start thinking about what to do. Theres doesn't seem to be a good place to do that because all of the branches seem abandoned06:09
FlannelBut, I'm still pretty optimistic about it.06:09
FlannelAliTabuger7: Most of the work is going to be done on the not-so-backend side, to be honest.  Once we get a DB layout pinned down (or at least sketched), we should be fine to work on each half in parallel06:10
AliTabuger7Yeah, someone said it right in the mailing list. We just have to get the basics down and we can improve from there.06:10
AliTabuger7Ok. Well my experience is mainly in drupal's theming. I have a little bit of experience coding for it, though not much.06:12
FlannelAlright, so sounds like you'll work on the frontend ;)06:13
AliTabuger7I am familiar with programming though, I have the time, and would really love to help ubuntu so I'll do whatever you need06:13
FlannelAliTabuger7: which languages?06:14
AliTabuger7I took a class for VB .Net (not too useful) and I'm in C++ right now06:15
AliTabuger7and i've done enough coding for drupal themes to recognize that they are all extremely similar06:15
AliTabuger7except vb.net...06:15
AliTabuger7Doesn't sound like much, but I actually have a knack for this sort of thing. I learned HTML and CSS all on my own with the help of google06:16
AliTabuger7Which version of drupal are you planning on using?06:17
FlannelI have no idea.  That's not my realm06:17
FlannelYou'd have to ask hubuntu06:18
AliTabuger7that's leaving me a little confused though on what it is that you do. the version is extremely important pretty much no matter what you are doing06:19
AliTabuger7is this mockup from the wiki the general idea: http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/1834/mockup6bismn7.png06:23
FlannelAliTabuger7: well, we've got a database on the server (with the website) that the site itself uses, and then we have a bzr branch, and we need to keep them synched.06:23
AliTabuger7Oh so you're doing like server applications, not the drupal php06:24
Flannelthe even-further backend, yes.06:24
Flannelnot the website backend, but the behind-the-scenes stuff for the website06:25
AliTabuger7now i understand. sorry i've been bothering you about stuff thats not even close to your area06:25
=== shahriar086 is now known as shahriar_away
=== philwyett_ is now known as philwyett
AliTabuger7Hi Everybody. Would anyone want to discuss something about marketing?20:12
=== shahriar_away is now known as shahriar086
shahriar086AliTabuger7 I am listening20:13
shahriar086though I am no expert I should tell you that before hand20:13
AliTabuger7shariar I had no specific topic20:14
shahriar086aah ok :)20:14
shahriar086you can start AliTabuger720:15
shahriar086I might learn something valuable from you :)20:15
shahriar086and you might gain something too :)20:16
AliTabuger7Exactly, but I'm pretty new here too. I joined this channel because the SpreadUbuntu launchpad team will be having a meeting here on sunday, and I decided I really want to help spreadubuntu20:17
shahriar086that is great :)20:18
AliTabuger7shahriar, why are you here?20:18
shahriar086humm I am a marketing major student20:18
shahriar086beside I like helping people out,,20:19
shahriar086where are you from AliTabuger7?20:19
AliTabuger7Ah, well I have next to no experience marketing. I just figured i could help SU because I'm familar with Drupal, the CMS they will be using20:19
AliTabuger7chicago, usa20:19
shahriar086that is not a problem20:19
shahriar086I know less about technical stuff20:20
shahriar086its not necessary you need to know everything, the job can be divided know?20:20
AliTabuger7yup, working together20:21
shahriar086:) btw I am from Bangladesh20:21
shahriar086I hope you know where it is :)20:21
shahriar086nope but close20:22
shahriar086neighboring country20:23
shahriar086south east of india20:23
AliTabuger7got it. doesn't that mean it's really late at night where you are?20:23
shahriar086its 1.23 am20:23
shahriar086I am night bird :P20:23
AliTabuger7Ah, well don't feel you have to stay because of me20:23
shahriar086no no, that is not a problem20:24
shahriar086I will tell you if I feel sleepy, I cant go to bed unless & until I feel sleepy20:24
shahriar086I am on Ubuntu-bangladesh team, you are on any team?20:25
AliTabuger7just the SpreadUbuntu team so far20:26
shahriar086ok :)20:26
AliTabuger7SU is exciting to me because it'll be a multilingual place where people can share and get marketing materials20:27
shahriar086yes I hope that it really gets to that far20:27
shahriar086I also liked the idea :)20:28
shahriar086but have not seen any preview so can't comment on it yet20:28
AliTabuger7well if they would just get up a bzr branch i could do it myself, but it wouldn't be as good as if more experienced people would help. I don't pretend to know everything, but just a place with a purpose is a great step forward.20:29
AliTabuger7I've seena  couple mockups, but not much. If the mockups are correct, it reuses the themes from ubuntu.com and brainstorm.ubuntu.com20:29
shahriar086though what I have seen nothing great or ground breaking20:30
AliTabuger7I have also seen a couple artsy ones, but they didn't look to practical for a web interface20:30
shahriar086humm its sometimes happens20:31
shahriar086from marketers point of view and technical point of view, things could be different20:31
shahriar086checking them20:34
shahriar086humm yes20:35
shahriar086something like this20:35
AliTabuger7Both of those are my favorites. the second could be refined a little more20:35
shahriar086I did not see these ones20:36
shahriar086may be they added later20:36
shahriar086will have to check again, thanks for sharing20:36
shahriar086I got few links from their personal blogs20:38
AliTabuger7where are those?20:38
shahriar086wait checking20:39
AliTabuger7yeah, see those are some of those ones that look very good visually, but if it were a website, you'd probably get frustrated with it. They might make good brochures or posters20:43
shahriar086well its actually less knowledge about technical aspect?20:43
shahriar086may be doable but tough20:43
AliTabuger7There are elements that I like a lot. For example the series of "see" "try" "get" "shipit" "spreadit" on most of them are really good20:44
AliTabuger7but almost all of them have giant images behind the body text, which is bad for pagesize and readibility20:45
shahriar086I am wondering what is the advancement20:47
shahriar086I mean whether they have decieded on anything20:48
AliTabuger7I don't really know. Thats why I wanted to see their meeting20:48
shahriar086none actually knows for sure20:49
FlannelSure we do.  Its just not much.20:49
FlannelOr at least, not much measurable stuff20:49
shahriar086yes Flannel? I did not get you sorry20:50
Flannelshahriar086: We know how much has been done, and there isn't a lot of visible progress (we can't say "here's a demo version"), but there's been a bit of non-physical progress20:51
shahriar086humm ok Flannel20:51
AliTabuger7I know that Flannel has been working on some kind of database architecture that I do not understand20:52
shahriar086I am saying on the point of outsiders view, ignore my last comment please20:52
shahriar086but you have to agree part of marketing is dependent on view20:53
AliTabuger7Yeah. I read that they are projecting it'll be out by 8.10. It might still be able to be done, I think.20:53
shahriar086actually my whole opinion was as an outsider point of view20:54
shahriar086this is actually a problem many people says about Business or marketing students. That they have very shortsightedness, and they rely too much on present view20:55
shahriar086I can say I was disappointed on the fact that there is no clear goal on the marketing part of Ubuntu20:56
AliTabuger7Bug #120:56
shahriar086sure there is a goal of eleminating bug #1 20:56
shahriar086but how? 20:56
shahriar086marketing or business does not run like that20:56
shahriar086goal is supported by objectives20:56
shahriar086and courses of actions20:57
AliTabuger7I was just thinking about that somehow. Thats REALLY long term. I was thinking maybe a concrete goal should be set for some kind of explosive growth for the next release20:57
AliTabuger7like a 25% increase20:57
AliTabuger7or better yet. 1% market share20:57
shahriar086sometimes that is a problem in terms how we messure?20:58
shahriar086we can messure on many sides yet they are not sufficient20:58
AliTabuger7Linux as a whole is almost to 1% according to a survey i saw a week ago. Maybe ubuntu alone could get 1% on 9.04 with enough marketing.20:59
shahriar086yes I saw them too :)20:59
shahriar086its much more complecated really21:00
AliTabuger7I know. But Firefox did it.21:00
shahriar086worse part is many people are not even willing to listen21:00
shahriar086still firefox have less than 20%21:00
shahriar086I admire firefox foundation for that21:01
AliTabuger7True, but I have yet to see an Ubuntu ad anywhere.21:01
AliTabuger7Firefox beat that two years ago21:01
AliTabuger7maybe a year21:01
shahriar086hummm that is on account of one site only21:01
shahriar086advertising helps21:02
shahriar086but to me its not about the knowledge its about the technical barriar to break out of21:02
AliTabuger7http://mozillalinks.org/wp/2008/01/firefox-global-market-share-reaches-211/ http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080129-firefox-gobbles-up-more-internet-explorer-market-share.html21:02
shahriar086yes thanks, I said the 20% is on account of one site only21:03
shahriar086that site even identifies ie has 35% opera has 2%21:03
shahriar086then what happened to other 43%?21:04
shahriar086its actually an estimation, which is good21:05
shahriar086what I have seen from my personal experience is that its not the lack of knowledge about the existance of Ubuntu or Linux21:05
shahriar086its lack of knowledge of effective support21:06
AliTabuger7That one's probably a little skewed21:06
AliTabuger7But they're showing 1% increase per month for the last year21:07
shahriar086by one mean, for the example of Firefox, the user don't have to face a huge change in behavior21:07
shahriar086I mean huge change in environment21:07
shahriar086basic things are same21:07
shahriar086but when people switch to linux from mac or windows they feel lost21:07
shahriar086and if I ask around for a problem in windows I can assume that 7 out of 10 people can give me quick help21:08
AliTabuger7I agree. Many people even at my university have never heard of linux. This means that the maketing could be very effective, since there is almost know pre existing knowledge. Furthermore, whether they know about linux or not, they are likely sick of windows21:08
shahriar086but in the case of linux it gets worse, may be 1 or 2 in every 10 person21:08
AliTabuger7thats why there's ubuntuforums. They know everything.21:09
shahriar086humm actually people dont prefer it because its too fast21:10
AliTabuger7too fast?21:10
shahriar086even a new comer on #ubuntu will be scared and can't keep track of it21:10
AliTabuger7the ubuntu irc channel is way to fast21:10
shahriar086humm yes21:10
shahriar086yes I know21:11
shahriar086it should have diversification21:11
AliTabuger7That IRC channel is extremely difficult to keep track of what's going on21:11
shahriar086lets say what problem I face in BD21:12
shahriar086first of all there are less techie person who have the right knowledge21:12
shahriar0862nd I don't know why people don't google21:12
shahriar0863rd they don't like articles in english21:13
shahriar0864th many tutorials experts give help by mean of shell21:13
shahriar0865th the linux groups are ineffective21:14
shahriar0866th no govt cooperation21:14
shahriar086I have seen there are tremendus interest about linux among BD people21:15
shahriar086but there are less scope to work here,21:15
AliTabuger71- true 2 - doesn't make sense to me either. with as useful of error outputs as they give, it should be easy 3- very understandable. I wouldn't want to have to read a spainish manual just so I can use my OS 4- They think it's easier, but I agree with you 5- How so? 6- What are they doing or not doing?21:15
AliTabuger7a symptom of bug#121:16
shahriar086we have no technological infrastructure to tell the truth, all in monopolistic situation21:17
shahriar086we have 10KB lines in most households21:17
AliTabuger7that alone would make it nearly impossible to download a linux iso or even to update the system21:18
shahriar086with which it is hard to browse hundreds of sites and download tutorials and such21:18
shahriar086yes true21:18
shahriar086and many of us  don't have access to repo dvd21:18
AliTabuger7maybe you should head some kind of CD emphasis for your area? they also have a method of using an "update" cd as a repository instead of over the internet21:18
shahriar086that makes it much more worse21:19
shahriar086yes we are trying it21:19
AliTabuger7Does everyone have a dvd drive? i'm in the US, where i'd like to think most of us have good computers and even on a university campus some people still just have CD drives.21:20
shahriar086currently we are trying to imply a shipit-bangladesh version21:20
shahriar086humm no21:20
shahriar086versities are of the poorer condition21:20
shahriar086no library help and administrative help (like law enforcement building or fire station)21:21
shahriar086its actually a third world country21:21
shahriar086so you can imagine it21:21
AliTabuger7Well i'm reminded of a Brainstorm idea that I thought was mediocre at the time. He suggested that libraries or malls could have a small stack of them so people could get access to it faster21:21
shahriar086its off no use really21:22
AliTabuger7well it wouldn't have to be a library or mall, but a centralized location where everyone would know where to look21:22
shahriar086it will get missmanaged21:22
shahriar086this means a dedicated place21:22
shahriar086a club house, play ground, stall such21:22
shahriar086but we don't have them actually21:23
shahriar086I mean we have them but no sponsors21:23
shahriar086its tough to work without sponsors or volunteers21:23
AliTabuger7I would imagine the best place would be wherever the fastest internet connection is21:23
AliTabuger7You could always charge for the value of the cd and refund it when it is returned21:24
shahriar086but its nothing compared21:24
AliTabuger7compared to what?21:25
shahriar086for example I can burn 5 cds for $121:25
AliTabuger7sounds right21:25
AliTabuger7charge a quarter21:25
shahriar086what we are currently doing is providing the iso they burn it themselves21:26
AliTabuger7the extra couple cents could go towards new cds when those become out of date21:26
shahriar086(many have cd burner at home, or many mall have them)21:26
AliTabuger7how are they getting the iso? usb stick?21:26
shahriar086humm we are travelling to a common place21:27
shahriar086house call or office call21:27
shahriar086yes usb stick21:27
shahriar086we actually don't like to charge for what is free21:28
AliTabuger7Supposedly 8.10 will have a feature where you can turn the USB stick into a LiveUSB stick, which would eliminate the need for a cd21:28
shahriar086humm 8.04 can be turned into it too21:28
AliTabuger7legally you are allowed to charge for the media and shipping (not applicable)21:28
AliTabuger7not officially supported though21:28
shahriar086yes I know21:29
shahriar086but people wont understand them21:29
shahriar086they state we can have them for free from shipit how come you charge us?21:29
AliTabuger7it's use a GUI so it'll be really easy to install to the stick21:29
shahriar086many don't pay21:29
shahriar086they turn in faulty cds in return21:30
shahriar086faulty means cheap21:30
AliTabuger7I see21:30
shahriar086at first we accepted cds in return, but it turned out problemetic as many started to provide cheap cds in return21:30
shahriar086now we are want something shipit-bangladesh21:31
shahriar086they will only pay the shipment cost21:31
shahriar086its faster and cheaper too21:31
AliTabuger7wouldn't take much to beat a 10kbps download21:32
shahriar086it takes around 3-4 days21:32
shahriar086but many gives up before that21:33
AliTabuger7yeah. It'd take 20 hours straigt asuming you were getting a full 1021:33
shahriar086I don't sit in front of pc more than 10hr21:34
shahriar086so two days myself, and I don't like the fact keeping my pc on over night21:35
shahriar086+ loadshedding is a common factor, about 3-6 hours it varies depending on the location21:35
shahriar086in my area its only 1-2 hrs a day, and people call me lucky, many area have 8-10 hrs loadshedding21:36
AliTabuger7i don't even know what loadshedding is21:37
shahriar086ohh mannual power outage21:38
shahriar086intentional power outage to cover the excess demand21:38
AliTabuger7wow, that does suck21:38
AliTabuger7hopefully they use .torrents or .jigdo's21:39
shahriar086yes it does.21:39
AliTabuger7otherwise it would never complete21:39
shahriar086humm yes that's the only way to go21:39
shahriar086but many don't understand torrent thing here21:39
shahriar086not blamming them I also once had no idea about it21:39
AliTabuger7a lot of people dont, but an amazing amount actually alredy have a torrent application installed, but usually because they want to pirate something. Thats why I have such a hard time understanding why the .torrent isnt listed on the main download page21:40
shahriar086may be because they have less idea about the problem we face21:41
shahriar086can you imagine how much it costs cannonical to operate its shipit in BD?21:42
AliTabuger7how about just plain shipit21:42
AliTabuger7or the kind of bandwidth they need to have distributed millions of 700mb iso's21:42
shahriar086yes I am talking about plain shipit21:42
ubot5Launchpad bug 102974 in ubuntu-website "getubuntu download not proposing .torrent" [Medium,Confirmed] 21:43
AliTabuger7wow ubot is cool! why don't you tell them how it is actually required in order for you to actually get it21:44
shahriar086its actually costs cannonical around $5-6 per cd21:47
shahriar086and about 2-3 months to ship it to the end requester21:47
AliTabuger7Really? wow! Thats extremely expensive, especially for such slow shipping.21:48
AliTabuger7the USPS does a discount on media like cd's i think.21:49
shahriar086cannonical sent us around 400cds as we had requested21:49
shahriar086(they sends to distribute via localization team)21:50
shahriar086but we could not manage to get it out of customs21:50
shahriar086the shipment is now rotting in the custom house21:50
shahriar086told you govt is not co-operating21:50
AliTabuger7yours or ours?21:51
AliTabuger7why did they detain it?21:51
shahriar086custom charge..21:51
shahriar086around $65021:52
shahriar086after claiming its for non-commercial educational purpose21:52
AliTabuger7I don't think i understand...21:53
shahriar086initially it was around $115021:53
shahriar086you recieve ubuntu cd for free of charge right from cannonical?21:53
AliTabuger7How could it be so much? I've got a stack of 100 DVD's for less than 50$21:53
shahriar086customs charge each cd $321:54
shahriar086who is going to explain that to govt ?21:54
AliTabuger7oh, i see. and canonical was supposed to pay that?21:54
shahriar086it has no commercial value21:55
shahriar086why they will charge such high cost?21:55
shahriar086I can buy a cd in Bd for about 20 cents21:55
AliTabuger7some kind of weird tax/tariff. My government does it too, but usually to countries it doesn't like.21:56
shahriar086any way21:56
AliTabuger7Really? I'm getting ripped off. Blank CD's are expensive here21:56
shahriar086he he21:56
shahriar086may be we should export then?21:56
AliTabuger7weird thing is a stack of 100 blank cd's costs exactly as much as 100 blank dvds21:56
shahriar086na funny thing is blank dvds cost even less21:57
shahriar086( if I buy in bulk)21:57
AliTabuger7Well I think I'm starting to understand why you want a shipit for your own country21:57
shahriar086its 17cents for every 100 DVDs21:57
AliTabuger7if they just pay you the cost of the media, it's a workaround on the shipping cost and tariff21:57
shahriar086I mean 17cents if I buy 100 dvds21:58
shahriar086that's why we want shipit-bangladesh21:58
AliTabuger7maybe this should go as a bug or a brainstorm idea suggesting shipit "factories" or something, so that shipping costs are reduced and to avoid taxes like that21:59
shahriar086even the couriar charge is not much say about 35 cents to the furthest corner21:59
shahriar086humm factories should be like sponsored22:00
shahriar086we are actually trying to survive (not expand) under the current situation22:00
AliTabuger7cannonical still pays for it either using donations or however it usually did. They could have a factory in each region that would make it cheaper22:01
shahriar086with no apparent volunteer and no sponsor its tough22:01
shahriar086I afraid then it will turn into money making procedure22:02
shahriar086many will claim they wan't to establish "factories" in their region22:02
shahriar086sorry I am actually a pecimist22:02
AliTabuger7yeah... i had considered that too. Still, it should be cheaper no matter what.22:03
shahriar086I only find problems rather finding solutions22:03
AliTabuger7that would show up when users complain they aren't getting disks22:03
AliTabuger7at which point, canonical could probably sue hem22:03
shahriar086lets actually see what is happening22:04
AliTabuger7or at least investigate it22:04
shahriar086via who?22:04
AliTabuger7maybe it would turn into something like taxes where you have to ship in reciepts22:04
shahriar086cannonical can't physically check every objectionable factories22:04
AliTabuger7good point22:05
shahriar086lets see. we can start of then ask for it22:06
AliTabuger7maybe canonical could have actual employees that do this.22:06
shahriar086currently we are in reall need of volunteers22:06
shahriar086humm may be22:06
shahriar086ha ha in that terms I have one funny part22:06
shahriar086you know one of our FOSS advocate is microsoft employee22:07
AliTabuger7actually no i didn't22:07
shahriar086he is responsible to increase the sell of windows, but he hands his client ubuntu as a backup copy22:07
shahriar086that is really funny22:07
AliTabuger7that is funny22:08
AliTabuger7that sounds like a weird conflict of interest. I wonder what he actually believes.22:08
shahriar086he is actually into open source22:09
AliTabuger7I actually have to get going now. I'll be back in less than an hour22:09
shahriar086he is very prominent name in BD.22:09
AliTabuger7weird how ms hasn't fired him yet22:09
shahriar086he he22:10
shahriar086he always make fun of MS22:10
shahriar086you come back I will tell you one of his fun22:10
shahriar086*funny story22:10
shahriar086if I am still around22:10
AliTabuger7shahriar, i'm back now22:42
AliTabuger7so what were you going to say?22:45
shahriar086humm nothing much22:45
shahriar086just thinking what to do actually22:46
shahriar086how to change things around22:46
shahriar086any advise?22:46
AliTabuger7the whole cd thing?22:46
shahriar086nuh whole lunux thing22:46
shahriar086in what way you think its better off?22:47
shahriar086how to spread?22:47
AliTabuger7You said that DVD's are cheaper for you. Do you burn the DVD iso or the CD iso? The dvd.iso offers more packages, which would reduce the need for users to download packages. Obviously this means that they would be required to have a DVD drive.22:48
shahriar086cd iso, we don't have the guts to download the dvd22:48
shahriar086then again the cheap rate of DVDs are for bulk purchase22:49
AliTabuger7understood. How good is the typical hardware in your area?22:49
shahriar086its good enough basically22:49
shahriar086if you think of home pc now22:49
AliTabuger7would you say that having at least 256MB of RAM is typical?22:50
shahriar086cd writer if not dvd writer22:50
shahriar086atleast p4 or core duo if not core 2 duo22:51
AliTabuger7ok. I was going to suggest that maybe Xubuntu might be a good suggestion. It has lower hardware requirements and their .iso file is only 500MB. Still not tiny, but that could make things easier on you22:51
AliTabuger7wow. that's a lot better than what i had imagined when you said "third world" Obviously the computer hardware is not responsibility of the governemtn though, unlike libraries.22:51
shahriar086humm its actually a mixed situation22:52
shahriar086in mega cities hardware is good but outside major cities it is worse again22:53
AliTabuger7How far apart are all the buildings? Do many people use laptops? There is a solution where you can start up the installer using a pxe (network) boot, elimating the need for any install media, jsut a fast network connection like LAN22:53
AliTabuger7You could have an install "station" where you plug into an ethernet port and it goes from there22:53
AliTabuger7obviously, i'm trying to come up with unique solutions22:54
shahriar086ahh laptops are not easily available (though they are coming up)22:55
shahriar086and we are in the mega city so transportation is not a problem22:55
shahriar086and on the population side? this city has a population of 10M22:56
shahriar086sorry 100ML22:56
AliTabuger7I was asking because I suppose that it could theoretically be done over wifi, although i've never heard of it22:56
AliTabuger7you could also run ethernet cables around to do a pxe install22:56
shahriar086like fake servers?22:57
shahriar086I am not techie person sorry so you have to be more elaborate22:57
AliTabuger7300 ft ethernet can be 10$ if you find it good22:57
shahriar086humm listening22:58
AliTabuger7Ok. This is a somewhat fancy, but amazingly cool way to install it. Basically you have a computer that runs as a dhcp server. DHCP is typical for assigning IP addresses. There is a unique feature on dhcp that allows it to give a boot "image" to computers with newer bios. The initial image is transfered over FTP through the network, then as the system loads it gets the rest of the files through the network.23:00
AliTabuger7Once you get that set up (there are quite a few tutorials) it's amazing how easy it is to install. You just connect any computer directly to the "server" with an ethernet cable. Then you change the boot priority on the computer to do PXE or network boot just like you sometimes have to tell it to look at a CD for a boot image instead of the hard drive.23:01
AliTabuger7Again, it is a little complex to set the 'server' computer up to do that, but it sounds like a really practical method of installing since it elimates the need for the media like cd's and usb drives23:03
AliTabuger7I know you hate english tutorials, and even worse tutorials that require a lot of command lines, but here is a good example of what it would require step by step http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2007/10/11/how-to-configure-pxe-network-booting-on-ubuntu-for-network-based-installations/23:05
AliTabuger7i once read about a more graphical way to do this, if i can find that23:05
shahriar086ok I will look into it23:06
shahriar086actually I am not a techie person in any way23:06
shahriar086think of me as a new person using computer for the first time23:07
AliTabuger7Yeah, I thought it would be a little intense.23:07
AliTabuger7The limitation of this is that the computer has to be able to connect to the cord, and would therefore have to be within like 500ft (the reach of the cord)23:08
AliTabuger7Ethernet cords are those wider phone cords23:09
shahriar086this again creates one problem23:09
shahriar086we don't have free space23:09
shahriar086I mean I can have it over my house but how long?23:09
AliTabuger7uhh, could you rephrase that question?23:10
shahriar086the problem for us is that we don't have any free space to organize our work23:10
AliTabuger7i see23:11
AliTabuger7do you own a laptop?23:11
shahriar086like we are inactive because we don't have place to organize gettogether23:11
shahriar086yes I can manage23:11
AliTabuger7you could maybe do this setup with a laptop as the server and bring the laptop to the computer that needs linux23:11
AliTabuger7that's probably more work than you should have to do though23:11
shahriar086we then can take the iso and burn there,23:13
shahriar086currently few problems23:13
shahriar0861) Volunteer to work , 2) place to stand and help other, arrange workshops 3) sponsor to support the place,23:14
shahriar086we are running in a circle actually23:15
AliTabuger7well i don't know what your government is like, but mine makes a lot of unusual rules and loopholes for nonprofit organizations. Maybe you could form an organization designed specifically to do that23:15
AliTabuger7maybe not directly affiliated with ubuntu, maybe just one promoting open source software in general23:16
shahriar086we can't attract volunteer if they don't see our presence, we can't make our presence felt if we don't have workshop, installfest, and we can't have workshops and installfests if we don't have sponsor and sponsor won't come if we don't have activity23:16
AliTabuger7by sponsor do you mean someone that will give you money to do it?23:17
shahriar086not money its about logistics and resources23:17
AliTabuger7i see23:17
shahriar086like a place to arrange workshop23:17
AliTabuger7maybe you shouldn't wait for a sponsor to go to you23:17
shahriar086if we find a "free" space we can be more active23:18
shahriar086yes we are not waiting23:18
shahriar086but in a grid lock23:18
shahriar086need serious guidance23:18
AliTabuger7one option is to promote it as an event, like you said. businesses like hosting "events". It attracts buisiness, especially if the event doesn't cost them anything except space.23:18
AliTabuger7so think of a business that looks to gain 1- popularity 2- good pr (public opinion/relations) 3- has the space that you require23:19
AliTabuger7then maybe have a short talk with a manager there23:19
AliTabuger7it doesn't ahve to be a business. it could be a school maybe.23:20
shahriar086yes we had few of them23:20
meoblast001can Canonical afford a TV comercial?23:20
shahriar086but they opted its not "profitable enough" for them23:20
shahriar086meoblast001: what's it about :)23:21
AliTabuger7meoblast - I kind of doubt it. I don't even know where they get the money they have now23:21
meoblast001AliTabuger7: thier expensive business tech support and merchandise23:21
meoblast001and they have this one produce out that links Ubuntu systems23:21
meoblast001or something like that23:21
shahriar086well I wonder how cannonical is surviving so far, with less than profitable terms23:23
shahriar086meoblast001: if its good they might opt for it23:23
meoblast001they need to find a way to make profit23:24
shahriar086humm they makes money no doubt about it23:24
shahriar086but their expenses are too much23:24
shahriar086like expensive shipit system, they can operate it from regional division23:25
shahriar086rather than centralized post23:25
AliTabuger7exactly, they don't right now. It would decrease shipping costs drastically and decrease shipping time.23:28
shahriar086actually what happens we don't know we can only assume or can we ask mark shuttleworth?23:29
AliTabuger7I've been wanting to get a Tshirt for a while. It functions as advertising, and supports canonical financially as well as looking really cool. However I didn't really see any designs I liked a lot. Kind of hard to justify a 30$ price tag for a bad design23:29
shahriar086$30 :o23:29
shahriar086again we are cheap :P23:30
shahriar086its $2-$5 at most23:30
AliTabuger7I'm not that cheap. I think of it as a donation with a gift23:30
shahriar086BD is leading germants manufacturer and exporters too23:30
AliTabuger7the plain one is 12, but all the rest cost 3023:30
shahriar086humm yes23:31
AliTabuger7ther plain one is white, which id on't really like. the black one has "i do it with ubuntu" which sounds perverted, i'm not a lady, don't like polo, don't want a hoody or sweatshirt, which leaves the heron one that doesn't actually say ubuntu23:32
shahriar086you ask a friend to design23:33
AliTabuger7I'd prefer to pay canonical so they get the "donation"23:33
AliTabuger7It doesn't even have to be fancy. It could just be a black one that says ubuntu on it. Kind of like the loading screen23:34
AliTabuger7in that case, to be funny it should have a progress bar fully loaded on the bottom23:34
shahriar086humm :)23:35
shahriar086customizing is costly, but then again your order amount will determine the success23:36
AliTabuger7meoblast001 - why did you want to know if they could do a tv commercial?23:37
meoblast001because i think we need to make one23:37
meoblast001a funny one23:38
meoblast001that usually works23:38
meoblast001thats what the super bowl ads use... and that's why those companies can afford to make superbowl ads23:38
AliTabuger7I agree we could definitely use a commercial. If it would run, it would likely be entirely funded by donations. If thats the case, who decides what when and where it airs?23:38
AliTabuger7furthermore, would it even be possible to get enough funding by donations for an effective campaign23:39
shahriar086meoblast001: not all comedy works23:39
AliTabuger7it would obviously be possible to get a couple adds up. depending on the time that's just a couple hundred dollars23:39
shahriar086not like the recent bill gates one I hate it23:39
meoblast001shahriar086: i made up a funny one23:40
shahriar086ohh then great :)23:40
meoblast001the dialog23:40
meoblast001didnt actually film it yet23:40
meoblast001two men are talking23:40
shahriar086ohh ok, you can try making independent one23:40
meoblast001one says he recently updated his operating system and had to pay 200 dollars23:40
meoblast001and the other guy says "wait...."23:41
meoblast001"ppl actually pay for operating systems?.... i thought that was a fairy tale"23:41
shahriar086I mean without sponsor with your friends casting, when people like it then ask people to forward it to cannonical via brainstorm23:41
meoblast001and then it fades to a screen that talks about ubuntu23:41
meoblast001and you know the rest23:41
meoblast001how do you like my idea?23:42
shahriar086yes good, but put more personal charecter describing23:42
shahriar086like make the character narrating his experience23:42
shahriar086why he switched and why he is happy with it, and why he will recommend23:43
shahriar086no no23:43
meoblast001its just 2 ppl walking up to each other23:43
meoblast001one says "hey whats up"23:43
shahriar086meoblast001:  think of flashback23:43
AliTabuger7i've wanted to see one thats like a "i'm a mac and i'm a pc" commercial23:43
AliTabuger7but not using lookalikes for the characters23:43
meoblast001AliTabuger7: already exists23:44
meoblast001Novell made them23:44
meoblast001"im number 1... no im number 1.... wait why are we fighting... we're the only two ppl around.. just look at us"23:44
meoblast001"*coughing sound* actually....."23:44
meoblast001it goes something like that23:45
AliTabuger7just saw it on youtube, pretty good actually23:45
AliTabuger7it was my idea! they stole it! lol23:45
shahriar086wow like that??23:46
shahriar086your lines are pretty fast :(23:46
shahriar086internet lines23:46
AliTabuger7oh connection23:46
AliTabuger7i can get between 600 and 1000 kbps at the university here23:46
AliTabuger7the give us quotas i think. I've read they actually have a several gig line. something like 16023:47
shahriar086 <meoblast001> one says he recently updated his operating system and had to pay 200 dollars23:47
shahriar086 and the other guy says "wait...."23:47
shahriar086 "ppl actually pay for operating systems?.... i thought that was a fairy tale" and then it fades to a screen that talks about ubuntu and you know the rest23:47
AliTabuger7thats both up and down23:47
shahriar086meoblast001: I did not like the last part23:47
shahriar086don't make it fade out, make it flash back23:47
shahriar086funny flash back23:47
meoblast001of happy music23:48
meoblast001and some guy dancing with his computer23:48
AliTabuger7meoblast, i kinda like the idea. does it do like some kind of comical fairy tale with metaphors and hilarious depictions of windows?23:48
meoblast001he just didnt believe that ppl pay for operating systems23:48
meoblast001he thought it was make believe23:48
AliTabuger7like when he says "fairytale" it fades into some kind of visual depiction of a fairtale os story, right?23:49
shahriar086yes this could be another way to look at it with out really targeting windows or mac os23:49
AliTabuger7with the guy who said "fairytale" as the narrator23:49
AliTabuger7the fairytale characters could be lemmings23:50
AliTabuger7then at the end it could flash the slogan "Ubuntu - Linux for human beings" - implying - not lemmings23:51
shahriar086:) meoblast001 write the full scripts. make a short video if possible then forward it. 23:51
meoblast001well.. not now23:52
meoblast001im programming23:52
AliTabuger7oh we aren't discussing the script?23:52
shahriar086it will be much easiar for you to convince people23:52
shahriar086AliTabuger7 its just a formal discussion23:52
AliTabuger7it woudn't even have to be a video, it could be a couple of hand drawn frames23:52
shahriar086script is not there fully or is there meoblast001?23:53
meoblast001i did not write it out23:53
meoblast001it was just an idea23:53
shahriar086yeah that could be nice :)23:53
AliTabuger7i think it has potential as well23:53

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