JontheEchidnaScottK: would you mind sponsoring bug 270176 and bug 270253?01:03
ubottuLaunchpad bug 270176 in kdeutils "kdeutils 4.1.1: new changes from Debian require merging" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27017601:03
ubottuLaunchpad bug 270253 in kdeplasma-addons "kdeplasma-addons 4.1.1: new changes from Debian require merging" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27025301:03
goatsockshehe, i compiled the latest Qt Firefox and added a Google Chrome theme: http://img.flashtux.org/img1326913555axd003b991.png01:19
=== vorian is now known as mad-mule
=== mad-mule is now known as vorian
goatsocksand now firefox qt hack with chrome tabs up top: http://img.flashtux.org/img13269138090x651c633a.png02:30
rgreeninggj goatsocks02:40
* rgreening wonders about Kond quiv02:41
JontheEchidnaScottK: and maybe could you sponsor bug 270334 too please?03:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 270334 in phonon "phonon 4.2.0: new changes from Debian require merging" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27033403:31
ScottKJontheEchidna: Maybe tomorrow.03:53
bobesponjagoatsocks: http://www.chromeplugins.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/firefox-chrome.png04:26
=== dsfjlskgjlkfdhgk is now known as bobesponja
NCommanderapachelogger: pong06:48
faboRiddell: libical 0.33-1 uploaded08:53
Riddellfabo: thanks.  still binary compatible?08:58
Riddellpresumably this is just the bugfix release they were talking about when 0.32 had issues08:59
\shkeurocalc-kde4 -> still under /usr/lib/kde4/bin/*09:07
\shwasn't it transitioned to standard dirs?09:07
Riddellthat package should be removed09:08
* Riddell does so09:09
\shRiddell: it looks like that keurocalc is still kde3 and keurocalc-kde4 never went into intrepid09:09
\shshould keurocalc for kde3 go and keurocalc-kde4 migrate to keurocalc with C/R on keurocalc-kde4{-data}?09:10
Riddellyes please \sh09:13
Riddellhi Beineri09:14
BeineriRiddell: alpha 5 also doesn't boot in virtualbox 2.0 for me09:19
Riddelldavmor2: what's the status with virtualbox? ^^09:20
davmor2it probably doesn't :( I have no idea though cause I use real machine 2 ticks though and I can check09:20
davmor2Beineri: 32bit or 64bit?09:21
davmor2sorry vb 32bit09:21
faboRiddell: yes, binary compatible/bugfix release. It contains some fixes sent by gnome people and another fix from a.winterz09:21
\shRiddell: ok..will do09:23
\shBeineri ? You here ? :) Welcome :)09:23
Beineri\sh: mhm, was here also yesterday ;-)09:23
davmor2Riddell: Beineri: Seems to work at the speed of a dying gnat on alternate I'll try live now09:24
BeineriMandriva and openSUSE run fine ;-)09:24
\shBeineri: good to see that you are changing the coast ;) *eg*09:24
davmor2Riddell: live dies a death with a kernel trace that scrolls off the page09:27
Beineri\sh: do you know the diplomats in civilizations? :-)09:35
Riddelldavmor3: bummer, time to poke soren I guess09:40
seaLne\sh: ooh i have plasma working on both heads now :)09:40
davmor3I'm just trying it in kvm09:40
seaLnekdm still dosen't get the background image right tho09:41
davmor3Riddell: seems to be working in KVM09:41
Riddellso Beineri is behind with his virtualisation technology :)09:43
davmor3one of them things I guess :)09:44
davmor3 brb09:44
Riddellwell no, it should be fixed09:44
RiddellBeineri: are you able to report a bug with the details of what happens?09:44
Beinerino, don't see whole trace either09:44
Riddelldavmor2: can you report a bug on the virtualbox issue?09:47
davmor2Yeah I'll have a look and see if I can't get the kernel trace to be copied somewhere.  It supprises me that there isn't already a bug about it though09:48
Riddellthere may be09:50
\shseaLne: how? :)09:54
\shBeineri: hehe...sometimes I can be one of them ;)09:54
seaLne\sh: updated this morning and logged in and it is working *shrug* :)09:56
\shseaLne: hmm../me needs to check that too :) later this day...hopefully09:56
davmor2Riddell: look at the known issues section here http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/intrepid/alpha509:58
\shRiddell: will you approve the NEW package then for keurocalc?10:00
\shah no10:00
\shkeurocalc will be overwritten anyways10:01
\shRiddell: do we need anything from motu-release?10:03
\shfor that package?10:03
Riddell\sh: fine with me, go ahead and upload10:07
\shRiddell: thx10:07
NCommanderhey Riddell10:20
\shkeurocalc for kde4 as replacement for keurocalc-kde4 and keurocalc for kde3 on its way10:21
Riddellhi NCommander10:44
NCommanderhey Riddell10:44
NCommanderRiddell: I'm fixing the Samba4 FTBFS :-)10:45
NCommanderRiddell: so can I steal you for a upload in a little bit?10:56
RiddellNCommander: probably11:12
NCommander\o_ samba builds11:13
NCommanderNeed to upload it to my PPA11:14
Riddellare you using the fix from kdelibs?11:14
NCommanderRiddell: a similar one, yes11:14
NCommander(using glibc headers over linux ones)11:14
* NCommander kicks his internet connection11:16
NCommanderdput is uploading at less than a 1kb per second11:16
NCommanderRiddell: know of any other FTBFSes that need attention?11:17
Riddellisn't there a list?11:17
NCommanderRiddell: I should have said pressing FTBFSes11:18
RiddellI wouldn't know without seeing the list :)11:19
NCommanderRiddell: http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ - command me to fix :-)11:19
Riddellwhat's up with kdeutils on lpia?11:23
Riddellbasket would be good to fixs11:23
NCommanderRiddell: try retrying kdeutils on lpia, that looks like a transient failure11:23
Riddellwhat's up with libqt4-ruby?11:24
NCommanderRiddell: libqt4-ruby is a delayed upload11:25
Riddellhmm, qlix broke, I'm sure I only uploaded that recently11:26
NCommander(sometimes the buildds fail to upload when they finish building, that one clears by itself)11:26
Riddellsmb4k broken?11:26
NCommanderI just fixed that, it needs an upload11:27
NCommander(its clean rule is somewhat broken)11:27
NCommander(I should properly fix that first)11:27
RiddellI don't think smb4k depends on samba411:27
Riddelltaskjuggler should work, needs ruby foo11:27
* NCommander files a bug in debian about the broken samba4 rule11:28
NCommanderFixing it in Ubuntu is pointless, it will get clobbered on the next sync11:28
NCommanderRiddell: https://edge.launchpad.net/~sonicmctails/+archive - samba4 awaits your upload after it builds ;-)11:29
* NCommander rolls the Debian patch to include the fixed clean rule11:47
\shseaLne: can you send me your xorg.conf? this screen resolution tool from kde systemsettings doesn't work for me here ;)11:48
seaLne\sh: http://paste.ubuntu.com/47115/11:51
seaLne\sh: that didn't work in hardy but started working in intrepid11:53
\shseaLne: hmm..I'll try it :)11:53
seaLne\sh: ati or nvidia?11:56
\shseaLne: ati11:58
\shseaLne: but plasma on the second screen -> no :)11:58
seaLnebut you had left yes, right no? whereas i had the othe way round weird11:59
\shseaLne: yepp11:59
\shah no11:59
\shleft no, right yes11:59
seaLneok that makes a bit more sense12:00
\shok.../me has a meeting12:00
JontheEchidnakhangman(9418) KEduVocDocument::KEduVocDocument: constructor done12:57
JontheEchidnakhangman(9418) KHangMan::setLanguages: Languages  ("es")12:57
JontheEchidnakhangman(9418) KHangMan::setAccent: in slot accent12:57
JontheEchidnaKCrash: Application 'khangman' crashing...12:57
JontheEchidnaI don't even know how that happened12:57
JontheEchidnaI pasted that in b.k.o12:58
Beineridavmor2: what virtualbox version do you have?12:58
Beineri!tell dirk: virtualbox 2.0.2 build still only works as root12:59
ubottuError: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)12:59
Beineridavmor2: seems to work with 2.0.2 here (had before 2.0.0 and 1.6.x)13:01
Beineriubottu is more dumb than susehelp bot ;-)13:01
ubottuError: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)13:01
Beinerionly that the notes plasmoid is placed half off the small screen :-)13:02
Beineriubuntu needs boot options for screen size13:05
stdinBeineri: don't blame the bot because you don't know how to use it ;)13:23
Beineriactually I typed into the wrong tab :-)13:25
apacheloggerNCommander: *cough* oxygen *cough*13:46
* apachelogger waves to Beineri13:46
* NCommander uses his chainsaw on apachelogger13:46
* apachelogger runs13:47
* jussi01 snatches apachelogger away from NCommander and says not to my ninja you dont, while brandishing a handgun :D13:47
* NCommander tweaks apachelogger so he FTBFS on i386/amd6413:47
* apachelogger hides in the bunker and starts work :P13:48
NCommanderIf my FTBFS powers can be used for good, they can also be used for evil :-)13:48
NCommanderapachelogger: I'll install oxygen icons if you give them to me with the proper filenames and already properly resized13:49
ScottK-laptopNCommander: Speaking of FTBFS, do you have a samba4 fix?  I saw you mention it on -server.13:50
NCommanderScottK-laptop: Its in my PPA13:50
NCommanderTHe clean rule is broken though so I need to respin it if you want a perfect debdiff13:50
ScottK-laptopNCommander: Yes, please.13:51
apacheloggerNCommander: by proper file names you mean the current ones?13:51
NCommanderapachelogger: yeah13:51
* apachelogger thinks the icon should follow the icon naming spec so they can be easily replaced _without_ renaming :P13:51
NCommanderThe source is there13:52
NCommanderYour welcome to fix it :-)13:52
apacheloggerNCommander: I can't get it to run :S13:52
* apachelogger wouldn't want to mess with it without seeing the results really13:53
apacheloggerNCommander: http://paste.ubuntu.com/47141/13:54
apacheloggerapparently register_sourcepackage() doesn't return anything :S13:54
NCommanderSounds like RainCT broke it more :-)13:55
apacheloggerthe initial setup is a PITA :P13:55
apacheloggerand the documentation is only slightly out of date ;-)13:55
NCommanderFor my changes, I updated the docs!13:55
NCommanderScottK: http://pastebin.ca/120329213:56
\shseaLne: and you have plasma on both screens?13:57
apacheloggerwhat happens when you have to plasmas collide?13:59
apacheloggerblack hole?13:59
* ScottK-laptop looks13:59
seaLne\sh: yeah one on each13:59
NCommanderapachelogger: end of the world as we know it13:59
apacheloggerseaLne: don't ever switch to one screen!13:59
* apachelogger kinda liked that world13:59
\shseaLne: any strange config setting for plasma in some strange config file?13:59
ScottK-laptopNCommander: Maintainer change too.14:00
NCommanderI'm used to seeing it in the changelog to remind me to do it14:00
* apachelogger thinks he will have to start all over again with revu14:00
seaLnenope wasn't working last week updated this morning and it did with no changes by me14:00
NCommanderScottK: Sorry about that, I need to run in 20 minutes so I'm rushing14:00
NCommanderScottK http://pastebin.ca/index.php14:02
ScottK-laptopNCommander: Link to an actual paste, please...14:02
NCommanderI realized that a moment too late14:02
ScottK-laptopNo problem14:02
ScottK-laptopNCommander: Thanks.  Test bulding now.14:04
ScottK-laptopNCommander: At some point why it built OK on Debian Experimental, but not Intrepid is probably worth looking into.14:10
NCommanderScottK-laptop: Its because our glibc and linux headers have a disagreement on the defintion of flock14:10
NCommanderI already filed bugs about it14:10
ScottK-laptopOK.  Great.14:10
NCommanderScottK-laptop: its the same bug that was causing kdelibs to FTBFS on amd6414:12
ScottK-laptopAh.  Lucky you.14:13
NCommanderScottK-laptop: why am I lucky?14:13
ScottK-laptopGot to fix the effects of the same bug twice.  I'm guessing it made it easy to recognize.14:14
NCommanderoh yeah14:14
NCommanderFTBFS come in patterns14:14
* NCommander needs quarters, lots and lots of quarters14:15
NCommanderOh, ScottK-laptop, while your here14:17
NCommanderhttps://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnucash/+bug/270200 - can you ack this for me14:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 270200 in gnucash "Change libgoffice dependency from 0.4 to 0.6" [Low,In progress]14:17
ScottK-laptopNCommander: Did you ask siretart?14:18
ScottK-laptopNCommander: Ask him to review it and then I'll ack it if he's in favor.14:18
NCommanderI didn't see him online14:18
seaLnehas anyone seen konq4 have the wrong title for a tab? a closed tab title or one to the left or right14:20
ScottK-laptopapachelogger: Was there a guidance-power-manager update for 4.1.1?  We still have
seaLneBeineri: any idea what causes it?14:21
BeineriseaLne: a bug? ;-)14:21
seaLnesurely its a feature :P14:21
apacheloggerScottK-laptop: there seems to be a tarball14:22
apacheloggerScottK-laptop: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/guidance/powermanager-ubuntu14:23
apacheloggerI guess just no one uploaded it yet14:23
ScottK-laptopNCommander: Did you get a chance to look at the guidance-power-manager patch yesterday?14:24
* Beineri only knows that you don't have to reorder tabs as I don't ever do that14:24
NCommanderScottK-laptop: sorry, no, where was it, I'll install it and test it later14:25
ScottK-laptopNCommander: Bug 26948314:26
ubottuLaunchpad bug 269483 in guidance-power-manager "KDE4 guidance-power-manager tooltip allways shows top left of icon" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26948314:27
apacheloggerNCommander: can I port revu to rails? :P14:27
BeineriseaLne: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17047014:28
ubottuKDE bug 170470 in tabbing "Wrong caption of tabs occurs sometimes in konqueror" [Normal,Unconfirmed]14:28
* NCommander watches his brain melt14:28
NCommanderdamn it apachelogger, there goes my FTBFS foo14:29
* rgreening scoops up remains... mmmm brains14:29
seaLneBeineri: ta14:29
* apachelogger slowly moves backwards towards the channel door14:29
NCommanderAt least I'm recyclable14:29
NCommanderGo garbage collection go14:29
* apachelogger better leaves before the channel starts hunting him14:30
apachelogger♻ NCommander14:31
* apachelogger thinks dejavu got a serious problems with symbols14:31
NCommanderapachelogger: what's with you an unicode O_O;14:31
* NCommander saw the symbol14:31
apacheloggermaybe quassel got a problem with them14:32
apachelogger♥ quassel14:32
* rgreening is beginning to hate scim/skim/...14:32
apacheloggerrgreening: is it broken again?14:32
* rgreening shouts "why won't it die?14:32
rgreeningI'm working on adding in a patch Riddell pointed me to14:33
rgreeningAnd the bloody thing spawns a ton of scim-panel-gtk processes14:33
rgreeningand killing the aplet respawns it. HA14:33
apacheloggersounds like fun14:34
rgreeningIt's like a 'willnot' cause it will not go away14:34
NCommanderrgreening: soon it will achieve sentience and cause a segfault in the process14:34
rgreeningI believe it's how SkyNet gets it's start. Better get Sarah Connors14:34
* rgreening queues the spooky music14:35
NCommanderThe best however was when I caused a panic within panic()14:35
NCommanderInfinite panics14:35
apacheloggerNCommander: oh, btw, revu seriously needs some coding style14:35
apacheloggeror at least a script to clean it up every once in a while14:35
rgreeningI once wrote an autistic piece of assemply code.14:36
NCommanderapachelogger: I didn't write it14:36
apacheloggerjust saying14:36
rgreeningIt wouldn't listen and kept spitting out numbers14:36
rgreeningI also wrote one to eat memory in the system and thow it away. THe net result was that the guy using the terminal couldn't play netrek while I ran it. :) Freed up the terminal for me.14:37
rgreeningscim is def buggy at this point. scim-panel-gtk gets launched and seems to hold up other systray applets from loading. When I finally killed it, then they loaded.14:40
rgreeningok, time ot patch14:40
NCommanderScottK-laptop: siretart acked it14:43
apacheloggerNCommander: how do I nuke the database's content?14:43
NCommanderapachelogger: drop database *database*;14:44
NCommanderdon't do that on production ;-)14:44
apacheloggeryou know, switching between tab and space idention in one source file is a pretty awkward to say the least14:45
NCommanderapachelogger: are you an MOTU?14:47
apacheloggerNCommander: Last I checked... yes :P14:48
NCommanderapachelogger: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnucash/+bug/270200 - upload please ;-)14:48
ubottuLaunchpad bug 270200 in gnucash "Change libgoffice dependency from 0.4 to 0.6" [Low,In progress]14:48
apacheloggerERROR:  database "revubase" is being accessed by other users14:49
apacheloggergod, I hate it14:49
apacheloggerNCommander: tell the debian maintainer to introduce line breaks after 80 characters, that diff line is mind warping14:50
* NCommander warps apachelogger's mind to compinsate14:50
NCommanderapachelogger: https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-experimental - second favor, approve me please :-)14:51
apacheloggerwhy? :P14:52
NCommanderI'm going to try that libqt merge14:52
davmor2Riddell: I'm smoketesting again and Kubuntu just failed due to smartpm-core and update-motd not being installable for landscape-client.  Have a word with cjwatson I thought it had been removed to get round this?14:53
NCommanderI've got to run for about 20 minutes apachelogger, so if you have any uploading issues, please leave for me, and I'll respond as soon as I am able ;-)14:54
apacheloggerroger roger14:55
apacheloggerNCommander: libqt merge is in progress already14:55
apacheloggerif you mean the merge I mean :P14:55
rgreeningRiddell: around?15:02
NCommanderapachelogger: oh15:07
* apachelogger pokes NCommander with r = c.query("SELECT usid FROM gpgkeys WHERE fingerprint='%s'" % fingerprint)15:09
apacheloggerthere is absolutely no script which actually moves the keys to the DB15:09
apacheloggerthat would explain the error I guess15:09
NCommanderapachelogger: take a look at launchpad_login.py15:10
NCommanderapachelogger: what?15:11
apacheloggersick code15:12
NCommandersick as in good or bad?15:12
apacheloggerNCommander: bad15:14
apacheloggerto much cluttering15:14
NCommanderapachelogger: why?15:14
apacheloggerthis wouldn't have happened with rails :P15:14
apacheloggerNCommander: oh, it works, thank you15:18
* NCommander hits apachelogger15:20
* apachelogger starts crying15:20
* Hobbsee thumps NCommander repeatedly15:21
* Hobbsee raises the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!™15:21
* NCommander eats Hobbsee with a side of fava beans15:22
* Hobbsee is not so tasty.15:22
* Hobbsee is rather bony.15:22
apacheloggerNCommander: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot109.png15:24
rgreeningapachelogger... can you help me with something? got any experience with dpatch? The scim module uses it and I can't seem to add my patch to the package because of it.15:25
* apachelogger usually converts dpatch to quilt :P15:26
Hobbseergreening: did you add the patch name to 00list?15:26
Hobbseeapachelogger: ew.15:26
apacheloggerrgreening: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Howtos/Dpatch15:26
NCommanderHobbsee: I've never seen what you looked like so how should I know?15:26
HobbseeNCommander: surely you should have researched that before attempting to eat me.15:27
NCommanderHobbsee: minor detail15:27
rgreeningI did all that with dpatch. I think the file looks correct.15:27
rgreeningI manually tested the patch to see if it applied before adding the dpatch stuff, and it did. No other patches conflict with that file.15:28
rgreeningapplying patch 50_check_scim_binary to ./ ... failed.15:29
rgreeningmake: *** [patch-stamp] Error 115:29
rgreeningany other suggestion on how to make this dpatch apply?15:32
rgreeningcould this be an issue: Version number suggests Ubuntu changes, but there is no XSBC-Original-Maintainer field15:33
rgreeningI really hate dpatch15:45
apacheloggerrgreening: did you build the patch on the existing patch stack?15:45
apacheloggerotherwise I would assume it really is just that an earlier patch alters some file which is also touched by yours and thus make your patch unappliable15:46
rgreeningI took an existing patch jr provided. I applied it manually to verify it. This I built a proper diff from it. dpatch needed some stuff added to the top. did that and alled it to 00list.15:46
rgreeningI looked at the others.... The mod Makefiles....15:47
rgreeningnot the .c file I alter15:47
rgreeninglet me check again15:47
rgreeningnope. all makefile changes only15:48
rgreeningif i run dpatch apply-all manually they all apply15:49
rgreeningok, this is bizarre. Running debuild after running dpatch apply-all allows the system to build. I'll try debuild -S after again.15:50
rgreeningsomeone kill dpatch15:50
rgreeningplease.. hahah15:51
* apachelogger really thinks revu should be rewritten using rails :P15:58
apacheloggerNCommander: when I try getting to the details page it opens the god damn url in an editor -.-15:58
rgreeningdo you have to run debuild (strictly) begore running debuild -S? Cause it seems that I needed to do that with the scim package and dpatch.15:59
apacheloggerNCommander: minor path issue15:59
apachelogger"minor" as in the god damn database stores absolute paths15:59
apacheloggerrgreening: you shouldn't16:00
* NCommander listens to the sound of apachelggers swears16:04
NCommanderSweet sweet music16:04
seeleis it too late to add powerdevil to system settings for intrepid?16:28
=== jjesse_ is now known as jjesse
* rgreening weeps silently16:33
rgreeningheya seele16:34
apacheloggerNCommander: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot110.png16:37
apacheloggerI think I don't like the bulb16:38
annmahello people16:40
annmaI have a user which has a 4.1.1 KHangMan package and there's no data files16:40
annmawho would check where those files are please?16:40
JontheEchidnaannma: you're talking about my bug report then?16:41
apacheloggerannma: hey, is khangman edu or games?16:41
annmaJontheEchidna: ohhh16:41
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: edu16:41
annmaJontheEchidna: YES16:42
apacheloggerthen I am downloading the wrong package :P16:42
JontheEchidnathe packaging is missing files?16:42
annmaif I knew you were there it would have been quicker16:42
annmaJontheEchidna: yes, the data files16:42
apacheloggerbut according to the packaging they should all be installed16:42
annmaapachelogger: the files are hard.kvtml, easy.kvtml for ex16:43
annmawhere can I see that?16:43
ubottuKDE bug 169079 in general "KHangman crashes on startup" [Crash,Unconfirmed]16:44
annmathere are no data files16:44
apacheloggerthey are in the l10n package16:44
annmafor English???16:44
* apachelogger needs to find a deb16:44
JontheEchidnayeah, english isn't in any l10n package16:45
annmaand the code defaults to English files16:46
apacheloggernot in the package iether16:46
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: I'll fix this in kdeedu then merge from Debian, unless they've already fixed it in which case I'll just merge16:46
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: the files would have appeared in the list-missing16:46
annmaJontheEchidna: you are a KUbuntu devel???16:46
JontheEchidnaannma: yeah16:47
apacheloggerannma: lower case u :)16:47
annma-- Up-to-date: /usr/local/kde4/share/apps/kvtml/en/hard.kvtml16:47
annma-- Up-to-date: /usr/local/kde4/share/apps/kvtml/en/easy.kvtml16:47
annma-- Up-to-date: /usr/local/kde4/share/apps/kvtml/en/animals.kvtml16:47
annma-- Up-to-date: /usr/local/kde4/share/apps/kvtml/en/medium.kvtml16:47
annmathat's the files16:47
annmaJontheEchidna: there was no need to do a bug report16:47
annmawe wasted time16:47
annmaafter several hours I came here...16:47
JontheEchidnasorry :(16:47
annmaI wasted time, I mean16:47
annmaand you don't know ME JontheEchidna?16:49
annmanext time please grab me from IRC16:49
JontheEchidnaok, will do16:49
apacheloggercp -a debian/tmp//usr/share/kde4/apps/kvtml/ debian/kanagram//usr/share/kde4/apps/16:49
annmaI am KDE-Edu coordinator by the way16:49
annmawhat is the user has no KAnagram install?16:49
apacheloggerannma: are these files shared among kanagram and khangman?16:49
annmasort of16:49
annmathey CAN be shared16:49
annmabut we kept each data with each app16:50
knomedid you know... kana means chicken in finnish16:50
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: so maybe a kdeedu-common file is needed?16:50
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: we need a -data package or -common-data if debian didn't introduce one meanwhile, then move the kvtml files to that package and make kanagram and khangman depend on binary:Version16:51
apacheloggeror maybe source:Version16:51
* apachelogger starts thinking16:51
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: source16:51
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: and poke the debian maintainer with our changes ;-)16:52
apacheloggerannma: thank you for stopping by :)16:52
JontheEchidnaannma: sorry once again :)16:52
annmaI'm closing the report as invalid16:53
annmaI'll add a return; when there's no data16:54
annmathere should never be such a case really16:54
annmafor KDE 4.3 maybe we'll put data in a subdir16:55
annmaI'll ask distros about how they prefer things done16:55
annmanext time for all Edu probs/questions: I am the person to talk to or pinotree as fallback16:56
knomewe should cooperate more anyway16:56
james_whello lovely kubuntu people, kwave looks like it could do with some love16:56
apacheloggerpinotree is the guy for everyone :)16:56
ubottuDebian bug 495758 in kwave "kwave has rpath to insecure location (/build/buildd/kwave-0.7.10/build/mt:/build/buildd/kwave-0.7.10/build/libgui:/build/buildd/kwave-0.7.10/build/libkwave)" [Serious,Closed]16:56
JontheEchidnaannma: where do you usually hang out?16:56
annmaapachelogger: exactly! a king16:56
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: #kdeedu16:56
knomeJontheEchidna, on hangman16:56
annmaJontheEchidna: all kde channels: #kde #kde-devel #kde-edu16:57
annmalol knome16:57
annmaannma at kde dot org as mail16:58
annmaas you see I am keen to help16:58
annmaas you saw witht he report (was it a test?)16:58
knomeisn't there any list that somebody updates of all the contact personnel?!16:58
knomethat'd be ++16:58
annmaon techbase.kde.org16:58
apacheloggerjames_w: we are a bit short on staff, I'll put it on the todo16:58
annmathere's the list of module maintainers knome16:58
knomeannma, but not of the promo/etc/leading geeks?16:59
annmawhich are the persons to contact for build probleù16:59
annmawhat do you need them for?16:59
james_wapachelogger: thanks. A sync may be reasonable, but apparently there is no kde4 version, and I don't know how you want to handle that16:59
annmaleading geeks are on core-devel mailing list of course16:59
knomewell for nothing, but there might be a case when you need somebody and there's actually no problem..16:59
annmathere are never any problem, we have mailing lists16:59
knomei haven't been around for long yet, but this complete thing feels quite unorganized17:00
annmawe have 1 person for build problem per module and to ensure that apps are maintained and such17:00
annmaknome: yes17:00
annmait is17:00
rgreeningRiddell: The patch doesn't 100% solve the delays. I have, however, located the source of the delat. It's actually in the call to scim_launch in the agent. There is an intentional delay loop which is wrong. I'm writing a patch now.17:00
apacheloggerjames_w: if it builds and works, we usually care as much about it as if it was a KDE 4 app ;-)17:00
knomeannma, well yes, but there's a lot outside the build and development17:00
annmathis is Free Software, not an enterprize17:00
james_wapachelogger: not at all? :-p17:00
annmaknome: of course17:00
annmabut for your needs as Kubuntu people17:01
annmaI can enumerate everything fo ryou of course knome17:01
knomejust wondering17:01
apacheloggerknome: KDE only seems unorganized, because no one documents ;-)17:01
annmabasically it's the bazaar17:01
apacheloggerthough, in case of kde-www it is really unorganized17:01
annmawe document17:02
apacheloggerjames_w: exaclty :P17:02
annmasee techbase.kde.org17:02
annmasee userbase.kde.org17:02
annmain the bazaar things are done17:02
annmausually you communicate more by mailing lists than specific person17:02
annmafor promo, and such17:02
knomei doubt there is a promo list for kubuntu.17:03
annmathat's not KDE17:03
knomeat least apachelogger hasn't pointed me to one17:03
annmaa promo list for kubuntu?17:03
annmawhat do yo mean?17:03
knomewell, www, graphic, general promo stuff17:03
annmafor kubuntu?17:04
annmacreate one17:04
annmaI am talking about KDE myself, not being in Kubuntu17:04
annmawith lower u17:04
annmaOK I have to go cook dinner17:04
apacheloggerannma: we are 2nd class citizen ... creating a list sounds easier than it is ;-)17:04
knomehave a good meal17:04
apacheloggerknome: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot112.png17:05
apacheloggerlast item's icon17:05
apacheloggerreplace it with the screwdriver one of the tools or the underconstruction thingy17:06
* JontheEchidna votes for underconstruction17:06
knomeapachelogger, how will i change that? :P17:06
apacheloggerI do17:07
* apachelogger needs opinions17:07
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: that might very well be too yellowish17:07
apacheloggerbest use of space though17:07
knomeunderconstruction i'd say as well17:07
* apachelogger tries17:07
knomeeven the hammer is too small, screwdriver would be even smaller17:07
knome== bad17:07
ScottK-laptopNCommander: Samba4 uploaded.  Thank you.17:07
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: knome:17:09
knomethe icon for kdegraphics isn't so good.17:09
apacheloggerI know17:09
JontheEchidnathat's still the old lightbulb17:10
JontheEchidnaI think...17:10
* apachelogger thinks the oxygen one is even worse because it is brighter :P17:10
apacheloggeractually ... that is the oxygen one17:11
apacheloggerthe bulb is pointless anyway17:11
apacheloggerhow do I relate a bulb to the status "advocated"17:11
JontheEchidnaI think the current revu magnifying glass looks too crystal svg17:11
knomeapachelogger, maybe a sheet of paper?17:13
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: it is crystal svg :P17:13
knomeso is that like "approved" or "ready" ?17:15
apacheloggerno, the one above is approved17:15
knomewhat is that then17:15
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: kdeedu bug also affects latest debian17:16
apacheloggeryou need to advocations in order to get the package accepted17:16
knomeapachelogger, i'd suggest a sheet of paper.17:16
* JontheEchidna will notify them17:16
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: first make the diff :P17:16
apacheloggeror make the diff in a collaborative way17:16
apacheloggergobby-like ;-)17:16
JontheEchidnashould I merge first?17:16
JontheEchidnathen base the diff off the new ubuntu package17:17
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: first talk with them, if they do the fix right away you could merge the change in17:17
* JontheEchidna hops on to irc.debian.org17:17
apacheloggerknome: the idea of the icon is to rais attention to this upload17:17
apacheloggera sheet of paper might not be too useful17:17
knomeapachelogger, well a sheet of paper with bright spot on it?17:18
knomeor !17:18
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: I'd go with either the green checkmark or yellow star17:18
knomeor just red dot17:18
apacheloggerred causes bad association17:18
apacheloggerespecially a dot17:18
apacheloggerthat is like - this package is on halt or something17:18
JontheEchidnathis package will crap things up! ohnoes17:18
knomeit catches yer attention17:19
knomeand people get used to anything17:19
knomei associate checkmark or a star with something already done17:20
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: dood, they already know about it. how scary is that?17:20
knomea yellow flag maybe?17:20
knomea green flag is also like it's done..17:20
knomethough that icon is not so good anyway :P17:21
apacheloggerwell it is almost done :P17:21
apacheloggeryellow flag got too little contrast17:21
knomecan't you change the bg color of the row?17:21
knometottally irrelevant :P17:22
apacheloggerwe could use the KDE logo :P17:23
knomehow would that relate17:23
apacheloggerthe one at kdegames! :D17:24
apacheloggertoo cute17:24
knomejust a yellow spot, yes17:24
apacheloggeryour screen suxx0rs17:24
knomeadd a kubuntu gear17:25
knomenah, i can see what it is17:25
knomebut if i look it just quickly17:25
knomeit looks like yellow spot17:25
apacheloggerwe shuld use emotes to reflect the package status :P17:26
knomewhy not change kdebase-ws -> green checkmark and kdegraphics to heart?17:26
apacheloggerthat would result in people killing me17:26
apacheloggerrevu always used a heart for 2 acks17:26
knomewell that's better than infinite torture17:27
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: halp!17:27
JontheEchidnahalp with wut?17:27
JontheEchidnasnapshot121 makes it look like the package is broken or something, red isnt' a good idea imo17:28
* knome pushes Tm_T:s nipple17:34
knomenice one17:34
apacheloggerJontheEchidna, knome: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot125.png17:35
knomeapachelogger, yes17:35
knomethat definitely is it17:36
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: +117:37
knomeeven if you get killed ;)17:37
knomewhat has changed?17:40
knomeaha, colors17:41
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: second one I think17:41
smarterapachelogger: 127 looks like windows xp sp2 icons :/17:42
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: should I change that at all?17:43
apacheloggerknome: get rainct in here again :P17:44
JontheEchidnaI think I'd make it a bit darker and less cyan17:44
smarterapachelogger: http://www.cases.public.lu/fr/pratique/solutions/patch_systeme/wxp2/pictures/wu2.gif17:44
apacheloggersmarter: so they are bad icons because they look like windows'?17:44
apacheloggersmarter: did you apply for motu yet?17:44
* smarter quickly hides :P17:44
apacheloggersmarter: is guidance-power-manager ready for upload? if so, get an FFe17:45
apacheloggersmarter: what is the status of kepas?17:45
smarterI'm making FFe for gpm and kepas, then I'll post that motu application17:46
smarterwell, they look *exactly* like these xp icons, and imho they're not really good icons, but oh well17:47
ScottK-laptopapachelogger and smarter: I'd have thought gpm 4.1.1 fell under the existing KDE exception for 4.1.1?17:49
* smarter doesn't know if we have an FFe for extragear17:49
smarterOh fsck, KMail apparently decided during the night that my last 3 months of mails and mail config were no longer relevant and deleted them :/17:49
ScottK-laptopsmarter: If it were KDE3 kmail, I'd suggest reindexing because they're probably still there.  No idea aobut kde4.17:51
smarterit's kde4, how do I trigger the reindexing?17:51
apacheloggerScottK-laptop: true17:51
smarterit also deleted the groups I created during the last months17:51
ScottK-laptopDunno.  In KDE3 you deleted the index and restarted Kmail.17:53
* smarter tries17:54
claydohsmarter: right-click on a folder and look for the reindex option17:55
smarterapparently it just changed the date of half my email to 2108 :/17:55
smarter2106 actually17:56
knomeapachelogger, lol ok17:56
rgreeningRiddell: scim patch you suggested is broken for deb as the use of popen forks 'sh' but attempting to run scim via sh fails.17:58
knomeapachelogger, k i privmsg'd him18:00
* rgreening smashes head against brick wall.18:07
* knome offers rgreening a steel plate18:08
apacheloggerScottK-laptop: what do you think about that ^18:09
knomeapachelogger, the colors were better in 127 and the magnifying glass icon needs thinking18:10
apacheloggeruh, nothing about my magnifying!18:10
apacheloggerthat is the most awesome icon ever18:10
rgreeningHad one installed. Broke it. Got a titanium one, broke that too.18:10
rgreeningscim is really annoying me18:10
apacheloggerrgreening: it really got 50 patches?18:11
knomeapachelogger, +1; what about the odd/even row coloring?18:11
ScottK-laptopapachelogger: I think Yellow after one advocation is counterintuitive.18:11
rgreening?? 50 patches?18:11
knomeapachelogger, the darker one could have a subtle hint of blue and be a bit lighter18:11
ScottK-laptopMoving from a neutral color to yellow makes me think it got worse, not better.18:11
knomewell it raises attention..18:12
ScottK-laptopWrong kind though.18:12
apacheloggerScottK-laptop: suggestions for a different color?18:12
knomeapachelogger, blue?18:13
ScottK-laptopapachelogger: How about Green.  I think the difference between one advocation and two is well represented by the icon differences.18:13
knomethat would be kind of neutral color18:13
apacheloggernah, that would be weird IMO18:13
rgreeningapachelogger: no, they are numbered 01, 10, 20, 30, 40 and mine 50... and it's garbage18:13
apacheloggerScottK-laptop: hm, maybe a lighter green18:13
rgreeningpopen function blows in the patch18:13
ScottK-laptopapachelogger: And then if you do that, I'd switch the red ones to yellow.  I'd expect red for a "Dear lord let us never have this in the archive" type of status.18:14
knomeapachelogger, PING18:19
RainCTapachelogger: I heard you are shy :). What's up?18:19
apacheloggerRainCT: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot129.png18:20
apacheloggerhm, my light bulb just died -.-18:20
Tm_Tyou killed it?18:21
* apachelogger turns on the laptop to see better what he is drawing :P18:21
jjessedoes that mean you are out of ideas?18:21
RainCTapachelogger: the "!" icon is confusing :P18:22
RainCTbut the others look good :)18:23
apacheloggerRainCT: I'll make the ! yellowish green, and the red X yellow18:24
* apachelogger hates to work in the dark -.-18:24
apacheloggerRainCT: btw, the README needs a make over18:24
RainCTbtw, have you changed the background color of the table headers or is that Konqueror being mad? :P18:24
apacheloggerRainCT: I did change it18:26
apacheloggerRainCT: what do you think?18:26
RainCTapachelogger: Good that blue is better :). I just wanted to be sure that it isn't a bug in Konqueror; you know, KDE applications..18:28
* RainCT runs18:28
* apachelogger throws an inkscape rendering bug after RainCT18:28
apacheloggerRainCT, ScottK: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot131.png18:30
RainCTthat's better :)18:32
ScottK-laptopapachelogger: Better.  Can we have more green and less yellow in advocated.  Better, but still yellowish.18:33
apacheloggerScottK-laptop: I can try, but first I have to google a new light bulb ;-)18:36
apacheloggerScottK-laptop: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot132.png18:41
* ScottK-laptop is good with that.18:42
apacheloggerRainCT, knome, JontheEchidna: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot132.png18:43
JontheEchidnalooks good18:43
knomethat's great18:44
RainCTawesome, +118:47
knomeapachelogger, will there be any more icons?18:47
apacheloggerknome: no18:47
apacheloggerunless RainCT wants to add some :P18:47
ScottK-laptopNCommander: Any word on kde4binding?18:48
knomemaybe then change the magnify-icon after all? *hides*18:48
knomeit looks a bit off-its-place18:48
RainCTapachelogger: Well, the "Comments (#Advocates)" label should be replaced with something that takes up less space, one proposal was to use two icons there.. Any idea?18:50
apacheloggerRainCT: icons instead of the label?18:51
* apachelogger thinks that wouldn't look very good considering the other rows use text only18:51
knomemaybe Com (#Adv)18:52
apacheloggerRainCT: I guess we could use mail-icon (plus-icon)18:54
apacheloggerbut icons without text are not very understandible in most cases18:55
RainCTyea perhaps "Com (#Adv)" as knome suggests would be better.. (with a tooltip with the complete text, of course)18:56
knome<abbr title="Comments">Com</abbr> (<abbr title="Number of advocates">#Adv</abbr>)18:57
apacheloggerRainCT: we could use icons for the icons I think18:57
apachelogger*icons for the actions18:58
devfil_apachelogger: what you can say me about raptor menu in kubuntu?18:58
RainCTnah the actions are not the problem18:59
apacheloggerdevfil_: there is no raptor code, so there is no raptor menu19:00
apacheloggerdevfil_: if it finishes before jaunty, we are planing to consider it as an option though19:00
devfil_apachelogger: good, seems to be quite promising19:00
apacheloggerRainCT: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot133.png19:00
RainCTwhy does abbr write everything uppercase? that's evil :P19:03
apacheloggerknome: why does it do that?19:06
=== Czessi_ is now known as Czessi
apacheloggerknome: see screenshot19:07
knomeapachelogger, because the css style19:07
* RainCT thinks: not as evil as Mozilla, but still evil :D19:07
apacheloggerRainCT: I think you should add an EULA :P19:07
rgreeningEULA - Die! Die! Die!19:08
* ScottK-laptop wonders if this might be a good time to mention that if you want a distro that doesn't have a EULA requiring default browser, Kubuntu is avialble.19:08
apacheloggerRainCT: actions: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot134.png http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot135.png19:10
* RainCT doesn't know what the icons are supposed to mean (they look nice, though) :P19:12
rgreeningKonq is great. It's Web Devs who write crappy Browser Only checks that ruin the world19:13
apacheloggerRainCT: maybe color support can help ;-)19:15
apacheloggergreen + -> archive || green arrow up -> unarchive || red x -> nuke19:15
apacheloggeror we could use a nuke for nuke ;-)19:15
apacheloggerthe last one looks weird, doesn't it?19:16
goatsocksScottK-laptop: i believe you just nailed the Kubuntu motto... "Kubuntu: Ubuntu for Non-Lawyers"19:17
rgreeningKubuntu: Mozilla Free19:22
* rgreening ducks19:22
ScottK-laptopThat is a feature and not a bug.19:22
rgreeningI wish it was scim free too after todays headaches19:23
knomeapachelogger, can you suggest any headsets for use with ubuntu?19:26
knomeapachelogger, ~cheap19:26
apacheloggernot really19:26
knomeyou know any compatibility list?19:26
knomewith linux eg.19:26
* smarter uses an USB microsoft LifeChat LX-3000, works quiet well19:28
rgreeningI have a nadcatz one... usb19:29
knomesmarter, with which distro?19:29
knomesmarter, any problems settings up?19:29
rgreeningI haven't used in a while, IRC tho, I have to muck with the asound.conf for also to set it up.19:30
rgreeningThat was under Gutsy19:30
smarterknome: Kubuntu 8.04/8.10, works out of the box19:31
smarterbut I haven't tested the microphone yet19:32
apacheloggerconnection gone19:32
apacheloggerRainCT: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot137.png comment icons || http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot138.png http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot139.png improved actions19:33
knomethat's the most important part :P19:33
knomesmarter, would you like to test it?19:33
smarterknome: not right now, doing homework19:33
smartergerman homework even :]19:34
apacheloggerknome, RainCT: that capital abbr is a khtml bug19:34
apacheloggerwebkit works19:34
knomeapachelogger, hmm19:35
knomeapachelogger, moment19:35
knomeapachelogger, abbr { text-transform: none; }19:37
knomeon css19:37
apacheloggerknome: not worko19:38
* apachelogger needs to feed19:38
RainCTapachelogger: make the nuke icon red or something19:40
knomeapachelogger, body abbr19:40
jtechidnaapachelogger: uhm, crap: bug 27053119:43
ubottuLaunchpad bug 270531 in gtk-qt-engine "gtk-qt-engine 1:1.1+svn20080816-0ubuntu4~hardy1~ppa1 stopped working on Hardy" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27053119:43
apacheloggerRainCT: k19:44
apacheloggerknome: not worky19:44
knomeapachelogger, html body abbr19:44
apacheloggerjtechidna: expected behaviour19:44
apacheloggerone needs to reset the theme if qt3 was used before19:44
jtechidnathey say it's also not in systemsettings anymore19:45
apacheloggerknome: nono19:45
apacheloggerjtechidna: well, yes, only KDE 419:45
apacheloggergotta live with that19:45
knomeapachelogger, ok khtml is borked19:46
jtechidnaso, how do they fix their gtk theming for kde3?19:46
=== jtechidna is now known as JontheEchidna
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: make it install to /usr19:46
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: it needs some magic19:46
apacheloggerthe kcm needs to go to usr/lib/kde4 the actual lib to /usr19:47
apacheloggermight be also worky if the kcm is in /usr19:47
apacheloggerwouldn't bet on that though19:47
Nightroseseele: this weekend I found out that it is not just us having the "save as -> white pages" problem in okular  (tested with another KDE dev)19:54
Nightroseand appereantly it is because poppler is too old19:54
Nightroseapachelogger: do you know if there is a newer version in intrepid?19:54
NightroseseaLne: about "move/copy to" in dolphin - we discussed it at the meeting and the result was that people want to know from upstream why it is not enabled by default - do you have time to ask Peter Penz?19:56
seeleNightrose: hum.. that sucks.  i've been printing to PDF to get over the problem, but its annoying19:57
Nightrosejep me too19:58
Nightroseor anyone else here on intrepid who could test something for us?19:58
Nightroseseele: anyway - should be fixed with newer poppler - i hope apachelogger knows if it is already fixed in intrepid19:58
JontheEchidnaIntrepid has 0.8.720:00
JontheEchidnaof poppler20:00
JontheEchidnawhich is the latest stable release20:01
Nightroseok great20:01
Nightroselet's hope it is fixed with that20:01
rgreeningapachelogger: If I get the scim issue fixed, are you able to upload or someone else (I believe Riddell is still away).20:02
apacheloggerNightrose: copy/move cluttered my menu20:06
apacheloggerrgreening: ScottK, nixternal, Hobbsee can20:06
Nightroseapachelogger: i think it is worth it20:06
rgreeningk. cool. I think I got it this time. Junked the original patch. Wrote my own.20:06
apacheloggerNightrose: nothing is worse cluttered menus :P20:07
Nightroseimho it is not cluttered20:07
rgreeningdebuild now... let's see if it works :)20:07
Nightroseand a certain someone was _very_ happy when I showed him how to get copy/move back ;-)20:08
Nightrosehe missed it from KDE 320:08
* apachelogger demands a case study on the target audience20:08
rgreeningWOOT! Fixed scim delays20:09
rgreeningdebdiff comng shortly. Any volunteer to upload it?20:10
ScottK-laptopHow obscure is it?20:10
rgreeninga couple of lines20:10
rgreening1 sec... I'll pastebit it20:10
* claydoh wants his move/copy back too. it doesn't clutter the info pane at all20:11
rgreeninghttp://paste.ubuntu.com/47218/ - scim binary check fix - removes delay if scim not installed20:12
rgreeningThere was another complicated patch with popen.. gross. And never worked on deb systems20:13
rgreeningThis is simple20:13
ScottK-laptopOK.  How about a patch description and maybe some debian/changelog?20:14
rgreeningI have the debdiff prepared now.20:16
rgreening1 sec for paste20:16
rgreeningThere it is. :)20:17
rgreeninglet me know if there are any issues with my submission.20:18
rgreeningIt's only my second fix. This one was all on my own... don't think I missed anything.20:18
ScottK-laptoprgreening: For debian/changelog, I think both the what and the why are important.  Something like, "Add 50_check_scim_binary.dpatch to remove 10 second startup delay if ... (LP: #203334)20:18
ScottK-laptopAnd the (LP: #nnnnnn) is the equivalent of (Closes: #nnnnnn) in Debian.20:19
rgreeningOkies.... want me to redo and re-sub20:19
ScottK-laptopAlso still need a patch description (Line 28 of your last paste).20:20
ScottK-laptoprgreening: I'd prefer it since you know what you're doing better than I do.20:20
rgreeningk. np. still l3rning :)20:20
seeleanyone know if ~/Desktop is supposed to be hidden?  I seem to remember we used to use .Desktop20:21
rgreeninggive me 5 or 10....20:21
ScottK-laptopseele: I'm pretty certain not, but I haven't read the actual spec.20:21
smarterseele: I don't remember anything like that, and don't see the point20:21
ScottK-laptopActually I think hiding it would be pretty user hostile.20:21
seelesmarter: KDE is phasing out the Desktop folder concept, so it's something we're going to have to move with eventually20:21
ScottK-laptopAnd since we aren't developing Launchpad here, we should avoid that.20:22
seeleScottK-laptop: right now it's a problem because of XDG, i think Firefox downloads everything to "Desktop" by default20:22
smarteryep it does20:22
ScottK-laptopIsn't XDG a FDO spec?20:23
smarterbut I don't think hidden the desktop dir is a good idea, until KDE provides a better alternative at least20:23
goatsocksso is kde going to lobby to change the fdo spec, or are they just going to break the spec?20:25
ScottK-laptopseele: Since Kubuntu has implemented XDG, we're kind of stuck unless KDE goes back and gets the spec changed.20:27
seelesmarter: alternative to what?  the only problem i know of is firefox downloading to Desktop20:28
seelesmarter: otherwise the environment supports non-desktop folders20:28
smarteryep, but people are used to their good old Desktop ;)20:28
seeleScottK-laptop: yeah, but i dont know who or when someone will do that.  it's just going to get more broken as we go along because KDE will stop supporting the concept of a desktop20:28
seelesmarter: by going to kde4 we're not supporting them using their "good old Desktop"20:29
goatsocksseele: so kde4 doesn't care about xdg?20:29
seelegoatsocks: no no no, it does20:29
seeleat least it follows it at the moment20:29
ScottK-laptopseele: So does ~/Desktop just become a folder in the FS that doesn't happen to equate to what we view as the "Desktop"?20:29
seelebut xgd breaks the KDE desktop concept20:29
goatsocksseele: making Desktop go away would require changing the xdg spec, so something has to give20:30
seele(looks like someone is going to start a conversation about it on the xdg mailing list)20:30
* ScottK-laptop is not that someone.20:30
goatsocksseele: either kde lobbies fd.o to change xdg, or kde breaks from xdg20:30
seeleScottK-laptop: i think some people are proposing that ~/Desktop turns in to a legacy .Desktop20:30
seelegoatsocks: no kidding. upstream people are on it :P20:31
smarterpeople need an easy way to put temp files and quick access files/apps, without cluttering there $HOME20:31
smarterstrigi/nepomuk and plasma are of course the way to go, but in 4.1 at least, I don't think we're ready to break the whole desktop metaphor20:31
goatsockssmarter: right, Desktop is used as a tmp folder by many users20:31
seelenot really.  Desktop is used as a working directory, not a temp directory20:32
goatsocksseele: i'm talking about how users actually use it in the real world20:32
seeleephemeral and working information is stored on it, not just ephemeral (temporary)20:32
seelegoatsocks: yeah.. so am i.  there's tons of research on the topic20:32
goatsocksseele: i don't need any research, my mother and my bro both use Desktop as temp dirs20:33
RainCTseele: if Konqueror/Dolphin support .hidden files perhaps the Desktop directory can be hidden using one of those20:33
seelegoatsocks: that's a bit ethnocentric20:33
RainCT(that's answering to the "turn ~/Desktop into .Desktop", I'm not sure if I've understood what the issue is but neither do I really mind about KDE :P)20:34
goatsocksseele: how does ethnicity factor into that?20:34
seelegoatsocks: omg look up the word20:34
seeleyoure drawing conclusions from your own bubble of the world instead of considering other users and factors outside your experience20:35
smarterthat's what I said, temp and "quick access", I'll happily remove that if I could say "open all pdf about foo"  to Nepomuk, but that's not the case atm20:35
seeleRainCT: i'm not sure if .Desktop will still conform to the xdg spec20:36
goatsocksseele: and you're discounting people's real world experience with "studies"20:36
seelegoatsocks: 3 people's experience is hardly statistically significant20:37
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: should we do powerdevil?20:39
JontheEchidnadoes it have any advantages over what we have now?20:40
* JontheEchidna doesn't know since he doesn't have a laptop20:40
goatsocksseele: even if this were a corner case, which i'm not convinced it is, you seem too dismissive of it... what did ~/Desktop ever do to earn your enmity? ;)20:40
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: well, it might become default in 4.2 anyway20:41
JontheEchidnalet's do it then20:42
ScottKProperties for my desktop ~/Desktop says "47153 files, 6499 sub-folders20:46
goatsocksScottK: where will you put all that stuff when ~/Desktop goes away? ;)20:47
ScottKGood question.20:48
goatsocksi think that's what i'd do20:48
goatsocksnepomuk is only helpful when you're not looking for something hierarchically20:49
goatsocksas a dev, a lot of my poking about for files is hierarchical, since i don't know exactly what i'm looking for a priori20:50
smarteryep, but you may know some caracteristics of what you're looking for20:50
smarterand nepomuk should help here20:50
goatsockssomewhat, but many times the structure of a distribution tree is important20:53
goatsockswith respect to your current task20:53
goatsocksso i see nepomuk as another filesystem tool, but one that can't and shouldn't replace traditional ones like filesystem hierarchy20:54
smartergoatsocks: it's a bit more than file system21:00
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: powerdevil ain't has no systray21:00
apacheloggersmarter: did you apply for motu yet?21:00
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: so ruphy says we should create some tiny systray app controling the settings via dbus21:01
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: what do you think?21:01
smarterapachelogger; nop because of my german homework :P, and I'm going to bed21:01
* JontheEchidna hides from potential work21:01
goatsocksapachelogger: steal the code from guidance21:02
apacheloggerthat wouldn't exactly work21:04
JontheEchidnadbus is the issue21:04
apacheloggerI luv dbus21:04
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: well, should we consider it?21:06
JontheEchidnait seems pretty cool21:06
apacheloggerwe basically just need a tray app to manipulate backlight, change performance profile and open the kcm21:06
apacheloggershouldn't be too complex21:07
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: http://paste.ubuntu.com/47245/21:12
rgreeningScottK-laptop: still around21:14
NCommanderScottK-laptop: its just a matter of me actually doing it21:14
NCommanderI can have it done like soonish21:15
NCommanderNeed to test one last build21:15
rgreeningkk. getting paste for ya.21:15
ScottKNCommander: I think smarter is planning on uploading 4.1.1 soon, so it'd be nice to know if this patch should go in.21:15
NCommanderfor what?21:15
smarterwhat patch?21:16
ScottKFor guidance-power-manager.21:16
NCommanderOh, that21:16
NCommanderI don't even get what I'm susposed to be testing21:16
rgreeningScottK: scim delay debdiff here http://paste.ubuntu.com/47246/21:16
ScottK-laptopsmarter: Bug 26948321:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 269483 in guidance-power-manager "KDE4 guidance-power-manager tooltip allways shows top left of icon" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26948321:16
rgreeninglmk if that's better21:16
ScottK-laptoprgreening: Diff looks good.  So how come we don't just make the scim-bridge-client depend on scim so this can't happen?21:18
rgreeningThat's what I asked Riddell... but I don't think he heard me :)21:18
rgreeningSo, I guess there is a case where it's legal/possible for scim to not be installed?21:19
rgreeningin any case, this works21:19
rgreeninghmm... it does general output though from the call to which. Perhaps I should change the patch to redirect to /dev/null21:20
rgreeningfor the which command21:20
rgreeningfor now, it's ok to see what is happening21:20
NCommanderScottK-laptop: I got that part, but I'm not sure the behavior I should be looking for. My panel is firmly planted at the bottom21:20
ScottK-laptopNCommander: Can you move it and see?21:21
ScottK-laptopAll I know is what's written in the bug.21:21
NCommanderI didn't even know you could move the panel21:22
* NCommander is not someone who changes their desktop much21:22
NCommanderJust the wallpaper21:22
NCommanderHow do I move it ;-)?21:22
apacheloggerNCommander: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/snapshot138.png21:23
NCommanderapachelogger: post your branch and I'll merge it21:23
NCommander(propose for merging and I'll ack it)21:23
apacheloggerI need to clean up first21:23
ScottK-laptoprgreening: It also needs maintainer updated.  I'm fixing that.21:24
rgreeningbrb. reboot.21:27
NCommanderScottK-laptop: can you upload gnucash for me? (I'm testing my kde4bindings fix now)21:28
ScottK-laptopNCommander: Did you get a 2nd ack?21:28
NCommanderScottK-laptop: siretart acked it on IRC, but didn't post a comment21:30
ScottKNCommander: Right.  I ack'ed after I saw that, but FFe needs two acks from motu-release.21:31
NCommanderScottK: I thought siretart was motu-release21:31
ScottK-laptopJust someone who's been interested in that package for a long time who's opinion I respect.21:32
apacheloggerNCommander: I'll update the README later on21:35
* apachelogger should seriously get some spare time21:35
NCommanderScottK: I got kde4bindings for you22:16
NCommanderScottK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/47265/22:19
ScottK-laptopNCommander: Great.22:19
ScottK-laptopNCommander: You tested this how?22:19
ScottK-laptopOnce burned twice shy and all that.22:20
NCommanderScottK-laptop: I removed lpia and made sure the resulting mono objects weren't packaged22:20
NCommander(the result in my PPA)22:20
ScottK-laptopNCommander: OK.  Sounds good.  Thanks.22:20
ScottK-laptopNCommander: In general I could stand for your debian/changelog entries to be more verbose.22:26
NCommanderScottK-laptop: I can fix that now if you like22:26
ScottK-laptopNCommander: I think in this case it's OK given what I wrote in the last one, but it should be explicit about what and why so the next person that touches the package understands.22:27
apacheloggerNCommander: btw, I sent you the revu patch22:27
* NCommander queues the merger22:27
ScottK-laptopNCommander: For example, the samba4/kdelibs ones could have stood something like "...  due to Bug #nnnnnn and can be dropped once that is fixed."22:27
NCommanderah, I see22:28
NCommanderapachelogger: I don't see your bzr tree22:28
apacheloggerNCommander: my bzr tree?22:28
NCommanderhow/where are the fixs?22:28
apacheloggerNCommander: in your gmail inbox22:29
* NCommander wanted a nice/easy to merge bazaar tree22:29
apacheloggerNCommander: read the mail :P22:29
apacheloggeryou got a tree in a patch file :P22:29
NCommanderhaven't gotten it yet22:29
apacheloggermaybe kmail ate it22:30
* apachelogger shudders22:30
apacheloggerit did?22:30
apacheloggerhow did it do that22:31
* apachelogger knew mailing was a bad idea22:31
NCommandercause its a b******22:31
NCommanderthat means I need to merge things22:31
NCommanderI don't even have a local revu install ATM22:31
apacheloggerô mon dieu!22:32
apacheloggerNCommander: just merge and push :P22:32
apacheloggerissues will appear rather quickly I guess :P22:33
apacheloggermy todo is out of date22:35
NCommanderso ScottK, when are some of my backport fixes going to be uploaded22:37
ScottKNCommander: Are there any that need uploading?  Now that jdong is back, I'm taking a break from looking at those bugs.22:41
NCommanderScottK: quite a few actually22:41
NCommanderScottK: at least 3 or 422:41
NCommanderLibtool failures22:43
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: is it just me or are we drowning in work?22:44
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: yeah, merge + powerdevil + stuff22:45
* apachelogger demands minions22:45
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: are you going to write the powerdevil systray?22:46
apacheloggerotherwise I will have to do rubyqt magic ;-)22:46
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: probably not...22:47
apacheloggerwell, maybe smarter wants22:47
apacheloggerI think rubyqt is a dep of amarok anyway.22:47
ScottK-laptopapachelogger: Any idea why we have DEB_DH_SHLIBDEPS_ARGS_kdepim-dev := -Xkdepimwidgets.so in debian/rules for kdepim?22:49
apacheloggerScottK-laptop: maybe debian needs it because they patch KDE to not link recursive22:52
ScottK-laptopapachelogger: So we can drop it?22:53
apacheloggerScottK-laptop: if you want to increase the diff to debian, yes22:53
ScottK-laptopapachelogger: The thing is we're shipping that .so in kdepim-dev, so shouldn't it get proper depends?22:54
ScottK-laptopAt the very least Lintian will be happier.22:57
apacheloggerScottK-laptop: Give it a try.22:57
apacheloggerIf kdepim refuses to build, you know why ;-)22:58
ScottK-laptopOK.  Building.  I'll know in about an eternity.23:05
bdmurrayJontheEchidna: Why was bug 222298 changed to update-manager?23:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 222298 in update-manager "Hardy upgrade does not show terminal" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22229823:24
=== wolfger_ is now known as wolfger
JontheEchidnabdmurray: I thought that adept only showed the changleog and launched update-manager-kde23:24
JontheEchidnais that incorrect?23:24
JontheEchidnas/changelog/release announcement23:25
bdmurrayI thought adept was a different frontend, but I'm not positive.23:27
JontheEchidnaRiddell: ^would you happen to know how adept2 is involved in dist-upgrading?23:27
bdmurrayJontheEchidna: It looks to me like update-manager does do the dist-upgrade.23:29
bdmurrayJontheEchidna: By the way do you anything about the kubuntu-bugs team?  I saw an e-mail about it and was wondering what the plan was.23:31
JontheEchidnabdmurray: apachelogger is the dude with the plan for that. I think the plan is for it to basically be a bugmail funnel for kubuntu-related bugs23:31
JontheEchidnabut somebody on LP already has the ~kubuntu-bugs nickname23:32
JontheEchidnaso for now it's Almost Kubuntu Bugs until we can get that name23:32
bdmurrayRight, I saw that team name. ;)23:32

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