newz2000hi qense16:16
newz2000mdke: I didn't fix anything16:16
Erik_Jnewz2000, are you there?18:02
newz2000hi Erik_J, yes, I'm here18:02
Erik_JI have some questions: why does the page provide an option to buy ubuntu?18:03
Erik_Jehh the download page18:03
newz2000Because some people have a problem downloading it18:04
newz2000and buying it is quicker18:04
knomeeh, might be18:04
knomenot is :)18:04
Erik_Jthen Requesting a free cd?18:04
newz2000well, requesting a free cd takes 10 weeks18:05
newz2000if you're in a country with poor bandwidth that might be the same time to download it18:05
newz2000but if you find a local vendor in your country who sells it you could have it the same day18:05
Erik_Jwhen someone is using Shipit, he needs a launchpad account. What are the exact reasons for that?18:08
newz2000Well, I can't answer with 100% certainty, but here's how I understand it:18:09
newz2000Launchpad is kind of our "user database" and it allows us to do all of our authentication and user related tasks in one place18:09
newz2000So instead of creating a 2nd user database for shipit we just use launchpad18:09
newz2000but you may want to ask in #launchpad to get the full answer (they manage shipit)18:10
Erik_Jhmm oke thank you18:11
newz2000no prob18:11
Erik_JI made a simple new prototype, but I'm not happy with it. Anyway you can see it here: http://xept.nl/dump/download.html18:18
Erik_Jit's missing the buy ubuntu option, there is no option to add the intrepid version, I think peaple should be more educated about wubi,18:20
newz2000Erik_J: I think it's a great idea19:01
newz2000I wonder if there should be a "help me decide" option that shows a summary of each version, or maybe a table listing a feature matrix with a column for server and a column for desktop19:03
Erik_JThe user should be able to learn about each versions very fast. I'm not sure what the best way is to do that19:13
Erik_Ja feature matrix might be a solution19:14
newz2000Maybe the server image could show a small screen shot of a console interface to contrast it with the laptop's gui desktop19:15
newz2000that should scare just about everyone away from downloading server19:16
newz2000(which probably isn't a good idea either)19:16
Erik_Jwell people who are uncertain should download the desktop version19:17
newz2000true, so maybe a better solution would be to add visual emphasis to the desktop version, maybe making the icon and download buttons larger19:18
newz2000it's an interesting challenge19:18
Erik_Jthis prototype is not perfect aligned but the server and desktop block gets the same amount of space. We were thinking to give Desktop 2/3 and server 1/3 of the space19:20
Erik_Jof the width19:20
Erik_Jsomething like that19:21
newz2000that would be interesting to see19:21
newz2000* see tested19:21
Erik_Jwednesday we are going to test. We give the user the english google page (with ubuntu.com as first result) and ask them to download ubuntu and find out if they like it19:22
newz2000I can't wait to hear how it goes. :-)19:22
Erik_JI've spoken to a friend of my and he just finished hes marketing study. He told me that an important thing about promoting is to communicate the unique selling points of a product19:24
Erik_JOne selling point of ubuntu is "Virus and spyware free" and compiz19:24
Erik_JI think thet should be added to the feature page19:25
newz2000good suggestion19:25
Erik_Jalmost everybody likes compiz and the visual effects.19:26
Erik_JIt is possible to add a flash video on ubuntu.com. Flash is closed etc.. that's probable a problem19:26
Erik_JThat might be a problem << better :P19:26
newz2000yeah, we have a policy against flash on the main website19:26
newz2000so no flash until Gnash is strong enough to deal with it19:27
Erik_JI think people get more attracted when they see a video. So providing a video in theora/mpeg is possible?19:28
Erik_Jbe right back19:28
thorwilErik_J: it's not easy to offer a video everyone can watch easily. the usual "solution" is flash for a reason ;)19:30
newz2000well, our feature tour will use javascript animation effects which should make it accessible to just about everyone19:31
newz2000and provide a nice shiny interface that will probably be better than many flash videos19:31
Erik_Jand provide the same user exprience as flash? As far as I know that is only possible with the new HTML5 video element19:34
newz2000it won't be the same user experience19:34
Erik_JI hate flash and silverlight, it's all closed19:34
newz2000but even in different flash moveis there really is no consistent experience. Nearly every one is diff.19:35
Erik_Jhtml5, svg, css and javascript are the right solutions19:35
* newz2000 waits for svg to be universally supported19:36
Erik_Jwon't happen. MS want to push their silverlight garbage19:36
Erik_Jso they won't implement svg19:37
newz2000yeah, too bad19:37
knomeanybody can suggest ~cheap headset for linux?19:37
newz2000knome: this may not be the proper channel for that19:38
knomei know19:38
knomebut i'm in a panic19:38
knomeand thought somebody might just know19:38
Erik_Jknome, you connect your headset to your soundcard. So every headset should work19:38
knomeErik_J, seems that my sisters one doesn't19:38
knomethey're *really* cheapo19:41
knomelike 4 eur19:41
Erik_Jwhere do you life in europa?19:41
Erik_Jbrr cold..19:42
Erik_JHi qense, I read that it's not going so well with your wanted page.19:45
qenseIt's a lack of interested people :)19:45
qenseI do advance slowly.19:45
qenseThe only thing that really bugs me is that people promised to do things, but never showed up again.19:45
Erik_Jsounds familier19:46
newz2000qense: don't let it frustrate you... be thankful for the little help and feedback you do get. Otherwise you'll get bitter.19:46
qenseYeah, tacone already explained to me that you should expect to much responsed at the start of a project.19:47
qenseI don't really mind that19:47
nandqense: okay, finally decided to give a try for UDS sponsorship. I'll discuss your idea there19:53
qensethat would be great!19:53
qenseI'm curious what will come out of the discussion19:53
nandlike some of the discussions, I guess a "let's do it" but little actually happening19:54
nandbut this will at least make the idea more well known19:54
newz2000nand, qense: have you talked to the launchpad people about this idea? It seems like the two would logically mesh.19:54
qenseI considered that, but in the end I thought it would be better to create something Ubuntu specific to allow teams that have nothing to do with LP to post tasks too19:55
qenseI also don't really know how well LP recieves suggestions this big19:55
nandnewz2000: not yet. In fact, I don't know much people there. Problems are, there is quite a few constraints19:56
qenseIt would also mean I can't help anymore since I'm not familiar with Python. ;)19:56
nande.g. the closed source part of the thing19:56
newz2000yeah, both good points19:56
newz2000maybe they'd hire you to add the feature. :-)19:56
* nand is already fighting to get a simple openID LP plugin for drupal...19:56
newz2000nand: it's in testing19:56
newz2000I've got the code19:57
newz2000though I'm a bit bogged down at the moment19:57
nandit's been like one year almost... finally!19:57
newz2000I've been using it for months19:57
newz2000but it's finally ready to go into a public place19:57
newz2000I think the fridge will be the first19:57
newz2000it has group membership integration so you can give users a drupal rule based on their group membership19:58
nandcool! Hopefully it will hit the brainstorm second update in octover/november19:58
nandthat, will be useful for the moderators group19:58
qenseI'm really curious to that module19:58
newz2000nand: the person you need to talk to is Joey Rinchen, aka rinchen19:58
newz2000He'd probably let you test it19:58
newz2000it's been approved for release as an open source project once it finishes quality control and security testing19:59
nandthanks for the tip19:59
nandnewz2000: when do you expect that?19:59
newz2000I can only guess, but I'd say shortly after Intrepid releases20:00
newz2000though I know he's eager for more testers and a bit frustrated that I'm busy20:00
nandcool, I'll volunteer20:00
knomewhat are you talking about?20:00
newz2000nand: do you work closely with heno? (Henrik)20:00
newz2000knome: a plugin for drupal that allows it to authetnicate against launchpad20:01
nandnewz2000: since brainstorm launched, we do not communicate much20:01
nandBrainstorm started as a QA project, but is no really QA anymore ;)20:02
newz2000nand: you may want to include him in your communication to make it sound more official. it might improve your chances.20:02
newz2000Joey is joey.rinchen@canonical.com20:02
nandtesting right now on irc20:02
nandokay, seems we will get LP openid for devel.ideatorrent.org :)20:11
newz2000oh, cool20:11
nandhe will get there a lot of testing :)20:11
newz2000that's just what he wants20:12
nandcoming back to Wanted, my opinion is that this is the next logical step after Brainstorm : after gathering and assessing ideas, something is needed to make people meet and start working20:13
nandwould be nice if I could at least make some people interested to work on this...20:14
* nand has now unfortunately started working, and does not have as much time as he would like too :(20:14
qenseoops, disconncted20:14
newz2000wow, that was a fast reconnect20:15
qenseI think that Wanted working together with Brainstorm would be really nice20:15
qenseanyway, this disconnection reminds me of the time, I have to go now!20:16
qensesee you!20:16
newz2000see you20:16
newz2000I'm so tired of testing openid modules and finding they don't work with launchpad properly because it uses openid 220:16
nandopenid got a version 2?20:17
newz2000yeah, it's got a couple realy nice features, like being able to grab some additional user info20:17
newz2000and not needing to know your funny looking openid url20:17
* nand wonders how he will handle the migration from drupal to openid ...20:18
newz2000there is a person inside canonical who has dealt with this a bit...20:18
* newz2000 tries to remember who it is...20:18
newz2000Stuart Metcalfe20:18
newz2000we hired him to develop it as a contractor and later he joined the company full time20:18
newz2000(he's the author of the drupal module)20:18
newz2000he knows the guts of drupal well20:19
nandhe has done a migration from drupal to openid? cool!20:19
newz2000well, I don't know how large a scale20:19
nandeh, you know a lot of interesting people :)20:19
nanddo you have by any chance his mail and/or irc nick?20:20
* newz2000 looks20:20
newz2000It's funny, I bought a book on web services recently and couldn't put it down20:20
newz2000after I finished it I realized the author works with me at Canonical20:20
newz2000I don't know his nick on freenode, he says it's "stuart" on his bio page in our directory but he's not online.20:21
newz2000but his email is stuart.metcalfe@canonical.com20:21
newz2000I don't know if he can or will help you with this, but he's the only one I know to ask20:22
nandok, I'll give a try and see, thanks a lot20:22
mdkenewz2000: hmm - weird. Anyway, that's the biggest bug fixed :) I think we can use the wiki theme by default now20:29
newz2000ah, cool20:29
mdkenewz2000: did you see my suggestion on the list about implementing the offline startpage directly in firefox?21:00
newz2000yes, I think it's the right thing to do21:01
newz2000I'm not sure how quickly that can be done21:01
mdkenewz2000: I'm going to talk to asac about it. In theory, a very small customisation would be required, unless we want to do something flashy with ubuntu colours and such21:02
newz2000ok, cool21:02
mdkenewz2000: so, asac was able to point me towards http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/locales/en-US/chrome/netError.dtd as the source for the page load error message; he seems to think it is doable to implement an offline startpage based on that which would be translatable. but he seemed a bit unwilling to say whether that could be implemented in time for intrepid without further details of what we'd envisage the page would look like21:59
newz2000mdke: so there's no page, just a specification on how to create one?22:00
newz2000Is there a way to link from a page in firefox (like this offline page) to the documentation in the help menu?22:00
mdkenewz2000: I would have thought so yeah. We could just customise one of those messages or add a new one22:00
newz2000I was envisioning a helpful message that says, "you're not connected to the Internet" maybe with a graphic, and a link to instructions on how to get connected.22:01
mdkeyeah. I suspect that a link wouldn't be difficult to add22:01
mdkei guess the next step would be some kind of mockup22:02
newz2000so maybe just instructions, "Click System -> Help -> etc..."22:02
mdkewell, "Click here for instructions on connecting to the internet" would be better22:02
mdkei'm sure that would be easy22:03
newz2000what would the url look like?22:03
mdkei don't know, it would be a launcher, I guess22:04
Volansnewz2000: try to open a non existent url22:04
Volansyou get a Address not found error message of Firefox22:04
Volansgraphically I think that this will be similar22:05
newz2000no, I use opendns so I get their message22:05
newz2000but I know what you mean, that's what I was thinking too22:05
mdkeclick "Work Offline" then try and open any page22:05
mdkethat's the sort of message22:05
newz2000I'm not familiar with the concept of a launcher in firefox, how does that work?22:06
VolansI don't know if firefox handle yelp link, but surely this can be done22:06
mdkenewz2000: I don't know if it does, I was assuming :)22:06
Volanssee in Edit -> preferences22:06
Volansapplications tab22:06
VolansI have added one that when clicking on RSS link import it on my feed agregator22:06
Volansso is simple, I don't know how is simple to do this by default22:07
Volansmdke: what is the URI of the Internet & Networking page for yelp?22:07
Volansthe one to use with `yelp file` command22:07
mdkeprobably "ghelp:internet#connect" is the most appropriate22:08
VolansI think is better "ghelp:internet" that have the complete menu22:08
Volansnewz2000: I think just add an entry in the about:config will be enough22:09
newz2000Volans: I think mdke is talking to asac in #ubuntu-mozillateam about it22:10
Volansyeah, I'm already there22:11
Volansopen your about:config22:11
Volansand search for yelp22:11
Volansfirefox already handle yelp link as I see22:11
newz2000not on mine22:11
* Volans asking asac for confirmation22:12
Volansmmh I got some problem... if I made a link like yelp://URI firefox call yelp with the complete link as parameter and yelp got the error that the URI "yelp://URI" is not found...22:17
Volansok I have got it with a simple bash script, but probably there is a better solution22:22
Erik_Jtime for some sleep, have a nice day..22:23
mdkenewz2000: assuming it can be done, i still think the next step is a mockup22:32
newz2000ok, I'll work one up in inkscape22:33
newz2000quick and dirty22:33
newz2000I'll get it by this time tomorrow22:33
mdkenice. thanks dude22:33
Volansnewz2000: not too complex... is a simple error page, as I have understand if we want some more complex asac think that the better way is through a "start page" rivisited22:34
newz2000simple is good22:34
* mdke nods22:34
* Volans too22:34
mdkereally, a customisation with a link to yelp would be valid on any instance when the user can't connect, not just the startpage22:35
newz2000so asac is willing to accept a config change to support this?22:36
mdkehe seems to be in principle22:36
newz2000ok, let's move quick before he changes his mind22:36
Volansjust a question... when this message should be shown?22:37
Volanssee the messages at the mozilla page mdke have linked above22:37
Volansevery situation have it's own message22:37
Volansif I have connection problems I always see the same message?22:38
mdkewell, we'd have to coordinate it with ubufox so that whenever ubufox detects no internet connection, it is shown22:40
Volansmdke: I think this is managed by firefox internally22:40
mdkeyes, but from what asac said he seemed to think that customising it could be done in ubufox22:41
newz2000I think ubufox is the container for all of the ubuntu comstomized settings22:41
mdkealthough, this only applies if Ubuntu ships firefox for intrepid :p22:41
newz2000I don't think that's in doubt for Intrepid22:41
* newz2000 could be wrong22:41
Volansabrowser will be shipped in every case ;)22:41
mdkenewz2000: I guess we'll see soon22:42
Volansnewz2000: yesterday night there was a long discussion about the EULA problem in firefox22:42
Volansin mozillateam chan ;)22:42
mdkeMozilla are really pissing around22:42
mdkedamn lawyers22:42
newz2000they're not dumb enough to irritate the oss community right as safari/webkit is catching on and google releases a new browser22:43
* newz2000 hopes22:43
mdkewell, dumb lawyers can get anything wrong22:43
Volansmdke: you have some news about it?22:44
mdkeVolans: nope22:46

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