[15:05] <qense> hello
[16:16] <newz2000> hi qense
[16:16] <newz2000> mdke: I didn't fix anything
[18:02] <Erik_J> newz2000, are you there?
[18:02] <newz2000> hi Erik_J, yes, I'm here
[18:03] <Erik_J> I have some questions: why does the page provide an option to buy ubuntu?
[18:03] <Erik_J> ehh the download page
[18:04] <newz2000> Because some people have a problem downloading it
[18:04] <newz2000> and buying it is quicker
[18:04] <knome> eh, might be
[18:04] <knome> not is :)
[18:04] <Erik_J> then Requesting a free cd?
[18:05] <newz2000> well, requesting a free cd takes 10 weeks
[18:05] <newz2000> if you're in a country with poor bandwidth that might be the same time to download it
[18:05] <newz2000> but if you find a local vendor in your country who sells it you could have it the same day
[18:08] <Erik_J> when someone is using Shipit, he needs a launchpad account. What are the exact reasons for that?
[18:09] <newz2000> Well, I can't answer with 100% certainty, but here's how I understand it:
[18:09] <newz2000> Launchpad is kind of our "user database" and it allows us to do all of our authentication and user related tasks in one place
[18:09] <newz2000> So instead of creating a 2nd user database for shipit we just use launchpad
[18:10] <newz2000> but you may want to ask in #launchpad to get the full answer (they manage shipit)
[18:11] <Erik_J> hmm oke thank you
[18:11] <newz2000> no prob
[18:18] <Erik_J> I made a simple new prototype, but I'm not happy with it. Anyway you can see it here: http://xept.nl/dump/download.html
[18:20] <Erik_J> it's missing the buy ubuntu option, there is no option to add the intrepid version, I think peaple should be more educated about wubi,
[19:01] <newz2000> Erik_J: I think it's a great idea
[19:03] <newz2000> I wonder if there should be a "help me decide" option that shows a summary of each version, or maybe a table listing a feature matrix with a column for server and a column for desktop
[19:13] <Erik_J> The user should be able to learn about each versions very fast. I'm not sure what the best way is to do that
[19:14] <Erik_J> a feature matrix might be a solution
[19:15] <newz2000> Maybe the server image could show a small screen shot of a console interface to contrast it with the laptop's gui desktop
[19:16] <newz2000> that should scare just about everyone away from downloading server
[19:16] <newz2000> (which probably isn't a good idea either)
[19:17] <Erik_J> well people who are uncertain should download the desktop version
[19:18] <newz2000> true, so maybe a better solution would be to add visual emphasis to the desktop version, maybe making the icon and download buttons larger
[19:18] <newz2000> it's an interesting challenge
[19:20] <Erik_J> this prototype is not perfect aligned but the server and desktop block gets the same amount of space. We were thinking to give Desktop 2/3 and server 1/3 of the space
[19:20] <Erik_J> of the width
[19:21] <Erik_J> something like that
[19:21] <newz2000> that would be interesting to see
[19:21] <newz2000> * see tested
[19:22] <Erik_J> wednesday we are going to test. We give the user the english google page (with ubuntu.com as first result) and ask them to download ubuntu and find out if they like it
[19:22] <newz2000> I can't wait to hear how it goes. :-)
[19:24] <Erik_J> I've spoken to a friend of my and he just finished hes marketing study. He told me that an important thing about promoting is to communicate the unique selling points of a product
[19:24] <Erik_J> One selling point of ubuntu is "Virus and spyware free" and compiz
[19:25] <Erik_J> I think thet should be added to the feature page
[19:25] <newz2000> good suggestion
[19:26] <Erik_J> almost everybody likes compiz and the visual effects.
[19:26] <Erik_J> It is possible to add a flash video on ubuntu.com. Flash is closed etc.. that's probable a problem
[19:26] <Erik_J> That might be a problem << better :P
[19:26] <newz2000> yeah, we have a policy against flash on the main website
[19:27] <newz2000> so no flash until Gnash is strong enough to deal with it
[19:28] <Erik_J> I think people get more attracted when they see a video. So providing a video in theora/mpeg is possible?
[19:28] <newz2000> possibly
[19:28] <Erik_J> be right back
[19:28] <newz2000> ok
[19:30] <thorwil> Erik_J: it's not easy to offer a video everyone can watch easily. the usual "solution" is flash for a reason ;)
[19:31] <newz2000> well, our feature tour will use javascript animation effects which should make it accessible to just about everyone
[19:31] <newz2000> and provide a nice shiny interface that will probably be better than many flash videos
[19:34] <Erik_J> and provide the same user exprience as flash? As far as I know that is only possible with the new HTML5 video element
[19:34] <newz2000> it won't be the same user experience
[19:34] <Erik_J> I hate flash and silverlight, it's all closed
[19:35] <newz2000> but even in different flash moveis there really is no consistent experience. Nearly every one is diff.
[19:35] <Erik_J> html5, svg, css and javascript are the right solutions
[19:36]  * newz2000 waits for svg to be universally supported
[19:36] <Erik_J> won't happen. MS want to push their silverlight garbage
[19:37] <Erik_J> so they won't implement svg
[19:37] <newz2000> yeah, too bad
[19:37] <knome> anybody can suggest ~cheap headset for linux?
[19:38] <newz2000> knome: this may not be the proper channel for that
[19:38] <knome> i know
[19:38] <knome> but i'm in a panic
[19:38] <knome> and thought somebody might just know
[19:38] <Erik_J> knome, you connect your headset to your soundcard. So every headset should work
[19:38] <knome> Erik_J, seems that my sisters one doesn't
[19:40] <Erik_J> strange'
[19:41] <knome> they're *really* cheapo
[19:41] <knome> like 4 eur
[19:41] <Erik_J> where do you life in europa?
[19:42] <knome> finland
[19:42] <Erik_J> brr cold..
[19:42] <knome> hah
[19:42] <Erik_J> :P
[19:45] <Erik_J> Hi qense, I read that it's not going so well with your wanted page.
[19:45] <qense> It's a lack of interested people :)
[19:45] <qense> I do advance slowly.
[19:45] <qense> The only thing that really bugs me is that people promised to do things, but never showed up again.
[19:46] <Erik_J> sounds familier
[19:46] <newz2000> qense: don't let it frustrate you... be thankful for the little help and feedback you do get. Otherwise you'll get bitter.
[19:47] <qense> Yeah, tacone already explained to me that you should expect to much responsed at the start of a project.
[19:47] <qense> I don't really mind that
[19:53] <nand> qense: okay, finally decided to give a try for UDS sponsorship. I'll discuss your idea there
[19:53] <qense> that would be great!
[19:53] <qense> I'm curious what will come out of the discussion
[19:54] <nand> like some of the discussions, I guess a "let's do it" but little actually happening
[19:54] <nand> but this will at least make the idea more well known
[19:54] <qense> yeah
[19:54] <newz2000> nand, qense: have you talked to the launchpad people about this idea? It seems like the two would logically mesh.
[19:55] <qense> I considered that, but in the end I thought it would be better to create something Ubuntu specific to allow teams that have nothing to do with LP to post tasks too
[19:55] <qense> I also don't really know how well LP recieves suggestions this big
[19:56] <nand> newz2000: not yet. In fact, I don't know much people there. Problems are, there is quite a few constraints
[19:56] <qense> It would also mean I can't help anymore since I'm not familiar with Python. ;)
[19:56] <nand> e.g. the closed source part of the thing
[19:56] <newz2000> yeah, both good points
[19:56] <newz2000> maybe they'd hire you to add the feature. :-)
[19:56]  * nand is already fighting to get a simple openID LP plugin for drupal...
[19:56] <newz2000> nand: it's in testing
[19:57] <nand> finally?
[19:57] <newz2000> I've got the code
[19:57] <qense> yay!
[19:57] <newz2000> though I'm a bit bogged down at the moment
[19:57] <nand> it's been like one year almost... finally!
[19:57] <newz2000> I've been using it for months
[19:57] <newz2000> but it's finally ready to go into a public place
[19:57] <newz2000> I think the fridge will be the first
[19:58] <newz2000> it has group membership integration so you can give users a drupal rule based on their group membership
[19:58] <nand> cool! Hopefully it will hit the brainstorm second update in octover/november
[19:58] <nand> that, will be useful for the moderators group
[19:58] <qense> I'm really curious to that module
[19:58] <newz2000> nand: the person you need to talk to is Joey Rinchen, aka rinchen
[19:58] <newz2000> He'd probably let you test it
[19:59] <newz2000> it's been approved for release as an open source project once it finishes quality control and security testing
[19:59] <nand> thanks for the tip
[19:59] <nand> newz2000: when do you expect that?
[20:00] <newz2000> I can only guess, but I'd say shortly after Intrepid releases
[20:00] <newz2000> though I know he's eager for more testers and a bit frustrated that I'm busy
[20:00] <nand> cool, I'll volunteer
[20:00] <knome> what are you talking about?
[20:00] <newz2000> nand: do you work closely with heno? (Henrik)
[20:01] <newz2000> knome: a plugin for drupal that allows it to authetnicate against launchpad
[20:01] <knome> a-ha
[20:01] <nand> newz2000: since brainstorm launched, we do not communicate much
[20:02] <nand> Brainstorm started as a QA project, but is no really QA anymore ;)
[20:02] <newz2000> nand: you may want to include him in your communication to make it sound more official. it might improve your chances.
[20:02] <newz2000> Joey is joey.rinchen@canonical.com
[20:02] <nand> testing right now on irc
[20:03] <nand> :)
[20:11] <nand> okay, seems we will get LP openid for devel.ideatorrent.org :)
[20:11] <newz2000> oh, cool
[20:11] <nand> he will get there a lot of testing :)
[20:12] <newz2000> that's just what he wants
[20:13] <nand> coming back to Wanted, my opinion is that this is the next logical step after Brainstorm : after gathering and assessing ideas, something is needed to make people meet and start working
[20:14] <nand> would be nice if I could at least make some people interested to work on this...
[20:14] <nand> hopefully
[20:14]  * nand has now unfortunately started working, and does not have as much time as he would like too :(
[20:14] <qense> oops, disconncted
[20:15] <newz2000> wow, that was a fast reconnect
[20:15] <qense> :)
[20:15] <qense> I think that Wanted working together with Brainstorm would be really nice
[20:16] <qense> anyway, this disconnection reminds me of the time, I have to go now!
[20:16] <qense> see you!
[20:16] <newz2000> see you
[20:16] <nand> seeya
[20:16] <newz2000> I'm so tired of testing openid modules and finding they don't work with launchpad properly because it uses openid 2
[20:17] <nand> openid got a version 2?
[20:17] <newz2000> yeah, it's got a couple realy nice features, like being able to grab some additional user info
[20:17] <newz2000> and not needing to know your funny looking openid url
[20:17] <nand> cool
[20:18]  * nand wonders how he will handle the migration from drupal to openid ...
[20:18] <newz2000> there is a person inside canonical who has dealt with this a bit...
[20:18]  * newz2000 tries to remember who it is...
[20:18] <newz2000> Stuart Metcalfe
[20:18] <newz2000> we hired him to develop it as a contractor and later he joined the company full time
[20:18] <newz2000> (he's the author of the drupal module)
[20:19] <newz2000> he knows the guts of drupal well
[20:19] <nand> he has done a migration from drupal to openid? cool!
[20:19] <newz2000> well, I don't know how large a scale
[20:19] <nand> eh, you know a lot of interesting people :)
[20:19] <newz2000> www.linkedin.com/in/newz2000
[20:20] <nand> do you have by any chance his mail and/or irc nick?
[20:20]  * newz2000 looks
[20:20] <newz2000> It's funny, I bought a book on web services recently and couldn't put it down
[20:20] <newz2000> after I finished it I realized the author works with me at Canonical
[20:20] <nand> eheh
[20:21] <newz2000> I don't know his nick on freenode, he says it's "stuart" on his bio page in our directory but he's not online.
[20:21] <newz2000> but his email is stuart.metcalfe@canonical.com
[20:22] <newz2000> I don't know if he can or will help you with this, but he's the only one I know to ask
[20:22] <nand> ok, I'll give a try and see, thanks a lot
[20:29] <mdke> newz2000: hmm - weird. Anyway, that's the biggest bug fixed :) I think we can use the wiki theme by default now
[20:29] <newz2000> ah, cool
[21:00] <mdke> newz2000: did you see my suggestion on the list about implementing the offline startpage directly in firefox?
[21:01] <newz2000> yes, I think it's the right thing to do
[21:01] <newz2000> I'm not sure how quickly that can be done
[21:02] <mdke> newz2000: I'm going to talk to asac about it. In theory, a very small customisation would be required, unless we want to do something flashy with ubuntu colours and such
[21:02] <newz2000> ok, cool
[21:59] <mdke> newz2000: so, asac was able to point me towards http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/locales/en-US/chrome/netError.dtd as the source for the page load error message; he seems to think it is doable to implement an offline startpage based on that which would be translatable. but he seemed a bit unwilling to say whether that could be implemented in time for intrepid without further details of what we'd envisage the page would look like
[22:00] <newz2000> mdke: so there's no page, just a specification on how to create one?
[22:00] <newz2000> Is there a way to link from a page in firefox (like this offline page) to the documentation in the help menu?
[22:00] <mdke> newz2000: I would have thought so yeah. We could just customise one of those messages or add a new one
[22:01] <newz2000> I was envisioning a helpful message that says, "you're not connected to the Internet" maybe with a graphic, and a link to instructions on how to get connected.
[22:01] <mdke> yeah. I suspect that a link wouldn't be difficult to add
[22:02] <mdke> i guess the next step would be some kind of mockup
[22:02] <newz2000> so maybe just instructions, "Click System -> Help -> etc..."
[22:02] <mdke> well, "Click here for instructions on connecting to the internet" would be better
[22:03] <newz2000> yeah
[22:03] <mdke> i'm sure that would be easy
[22:03] <newz2000> what would the url look like?
[22:04] <mdke> i don't know, it would be a launcher, I guess
[22:04] <Volans> newz2000: try to open a non existent url
[22:04] <Volans> you get a Address not found error message of Firefox
[22:05] <Volans> graphically I think that this will be similar
[22:05] <newz2000> no, I use opendns so I get their message
[22:05] <newz2000> but I know what you mean, that's what I was thinking too
[22:05] <mdke> click "Work Offline" then try and open any page
[22:05] <Volans> yeah!
[22:05] <mdke> that's the sort of message
[22:06] <newz2000> I'm not familiar with the concept of a launcher in firefox, how does that work?
[22:06] <Volans> I don't know if firefox handle yelp link, but surely this can be done
[22:06] <mdke> newz2000: I don't know if it does, I was assuming :)
[22:06] <Volans> see in Edit -> preferences
[22:06] <Volans> applications tab
[22:06] <Volans> I have added one that when clicking on RSS link import it on my feed agregator
[22:07] <Volans> so is simple, I don't know how is simple to do this by default
[22:07] <Volans> mdke: what is the URI of the Internet & Networking page for yelp?
[22:07] <Volans> the one to use with `yelp file` command
[22:08] <mdke> probably "ghelp:internet#connect" is the most appropriate
[22:08] <Volans> I think is better "ghelp:internet" that have the complete menu
[22:09] <Volans> newz2000: I think just add an entry in the about:config will be enough
[22:10] <newz2000> Volans: I think mdke is talking to asac in #ubuntu-mozillateam about it
[22:11] <Volans> yeah, I'm already there
[22:11] <Volans> open your about:config
[22:11] <Volans> and search for yelp
[22:11] <Volans> firefox already handle yelp link as I see
[22:11] <newz2000> not on mine
[22:12]  * Volans asking asac for confirmation
[22:17] <Volans> mmh I got some problem... if I made a link like yelp://URI firefox call yelp with the complete link as parameter and yelp got the error that the URI "yelp://URI" is not found...
[22:22] <Volans> ok I have got it with a simple bash script, but probably there is a better solution
[22:23] <Erik_J> time for some sleep, have a nice day..
[22:32] <mdke> newz2000: assuming it can be done, i still think the next step is a mockup
[22:33] <newz2000> ok, I'll work one up in inkscape
[22:33] <newz2000> quick and dirty
[22:33] <newz2000> I'll get it by this time tomorrow
[22:33] <mdke> nice. thanks dude
[22:34] <Volans> newz2000: not too complex... is a simple error page, as I have understand if we want some more complex asac think that the better way is through a "start page" rivisited
[22:34] <newz2000> simple is good
[22:34]  * mdke nods
[22:34]  * Volans too
[22:35] <mdke> really, a customisation with a link to yelp would be valid on any instance when the user can't connect, not just the startpage
[22:36] <newz2000> so asac is willing to accept a config change to support this?
[22:36] <mdke> he seems to be in principle
[22:36] <newz2000> ok, let's move quick before he changes his mind
[22:36] <newz2000> :-)
[22:36] <mdke> :)
[22:37] <Volans> just a question... when this message should be shown?
[22:37] <Volans> see the messages at the mozilla page mdke have linked above
[22:37] <Volans> every situation have it's own message
[22:38] <Volans> if I have connection problems I always see the same message?
[22:40] <mdke> well, we'd have to coordinate it with ubufox so that whenever ubufox detects no internet connection, it is shown
[22:40] <Volans> mdke: I think this is managed by firefox internally
[22:41] <mdke> yes, but from what asac said he seemed to think that customising it could be done in ubufox
[22:41] <newz2000> I think ubufox is the container for all of the ubuntu comstomized settings
[22:41] <mdke> although, this only applies if Ubuntu ships firefox for intrepid :p
[22:41] <newz2000> I don't think that's in doubt for Intrepid
[22:41]  * newz2000 could be wrong
[22:41] <Volans> abrowser will be shipped in every case ;)
[22:42] <mdke> newz2000: I guess we'll see soon
[22:42] <Volans> newz2000: yesterday night there was a long discussion about the EULA problem in firefox
[22:42] <Volans> in mozillateam chan ;)
[22:42] <mdke> Mozilla are really pissing around
[22:42] <mdke> damn lawyers
[22:42] <newz2000> hah
[22:43] <newz2000> they're not dumb enough to irritate the oss community right as safari/webkit is catching on and google releases a new browser
[22:43]  * newz2000 hopes
[22:43] <mdke> well, dumb lawyers can get anything wrong
[22:44] <Volans> mdke: you have some news about it?
[22:46] <mdke> Volans: nope