[11:53] <gnomefreak> what happened to the CC meeting? it was in the topic yesterday
[11:58] <persia> gnomefreak: The topic is subject to waffle.  It's supposed to start in 3 minutes.
[11:58] <gnomefreak> persia: ok thanks but after looking at agenda it most likely wont happen
[11:59] <persia> gnomefreak: I expect it will happen, but be a *very* brief meeting.
[11:59] <persia> Just in case any of the members of the CC have anything they want to introduce or discussi.
[11:59] <gnomefreak> ah good point
[15:58] <kirkland> o/
[15:58]  * mathiaz look around
[15:58] <soren> o/
[15:59]  * jdstrand waves
[15:59] <nealmcb> \o
[15:59]  * mathiaz ooohhhs: people...
[16:00] <zul> hello
[16:00] <sommer> yo
[16:00] <tarvid> here but already too much coffee
[16:00] <mathiaz> how is everyone doing today ?
[16:01] <tarvid> happy to be far from wall street
[16:01] <ogra> do you expect a rain of people out of the windows ?
[16:02] <mathiaz> ogra: apparently my expectations are too high today...
[16:02] <tarvid> the dogs have hit the ends of their chains
[16:02] <ogra> heh
[16:02] <mathiaz> let's get started
[16:02] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[16:02] <Koon> o/
[16:02] <soren> Let's.
[16:03] <nealmcb> Meeting started at 10:02:29. The chair is mathiaz.
[16:03] <mathiaz> After its last week quick appearance MootBot is back on vacation.
[16:03] <mathiaz> Last week's minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080909
[16:03] <ogra> mathiaz, ping Seeker` about it (he said we should do that)
[16:04] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu VM builder
[16:04] <mathiaz> soren: ^^ ?
[16:04] <soren> Ooh, yes. Big stuff going on ehere.
[16:05] <soren> Erm... I've clearly neglected to send out the blog post.
[16:05] <soren> I'll get right on that later today.
[16:05] <soren> I've got a local version that deploys to EC2, so things are coming along very nicely.
[16:05] <mathiaz> soren: ok - you've uploaded a new version ?
[16:05] <mathiaz> soren: and you'll cover most of it in your blog post ?
[16:05] <soren> Most of the stuff I've done pertains to EC2, but there are a few licensing tidbits that needs sorting out before I can push it to the archive.
[16:06] <nealmcb> ooh - ec2 - cool!
[16:06] <soren> mathiaz: Indeed I will. It's mostly written up, I just need to update it with the last couple of weeks' progress and post it.
[16:06] <mathiaz> soren: great.
[16:06] <ScottK-laptop> Hello all.  I'm finally not on the road at meeting time.
[16:06] <mathiaz> [ACTION] soren to write a blog post about vm-builder once it's available in the archive
[16:06]  * mathiaz waves at ScottK-laptop 
[16:07] <mathiaz> sommer: still on the track to update the Server guide wrt to virtualization ?
[16:07] <sommer> mathiaz: yep, I've updated the u-v-m section with what is currently in the man page... I'll update it again once the new version hits the archive
[16:08] <mathiaz> sommer: great !
[16:08] <mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to update the virtualization section of the server guide once vm-builder is available in the archive.
[16:08] <mathiaz> soren: anything else on the topic of vm-builder ?
[16:09] <soren> I'm thinking no.
[16:09] <tarvid> I would like a link on requirements for a host for a VM
[16:09] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
[16:09] <mathiaz> sommer: ^^ ?
[16:10] <sommer> tarvid: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/virtualization.html
[16:10] <tarvid> tnx
[16:10] <mathiaz> sommer: I still owe a review of the openldap section.
[16:10] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to review the ldap section of the server guide
[16:10] <sommer> :)
[16:10] <mathiaz> kirkland: raid section ?
[16:10] <kirkland> mathiaz: i published the blogpost calling for testing a few minutes ago
[16:11] <kirkland> mathiaz: if sommer has some time today, i'll review the server guide in conjunction with him
[16:11] <mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to review the RAID section of the server guide
[16:11] <sommer> kirkland: sure, can you ping me this afternoon?
[16:11] <mathiaz> sommer: anything else on the server guide ?
[16:11] <kirkland> sommer: yeah, will do
[16:11] <mathiaz> sommer: I guess you're still looking for reviewers for the different sections?
[16:12] <sommer> mathiaz: I had a quick question about the tomcat-server tasksel... is that going to be listed in the installer?
[16:12] <sommer> mathiaz: sure, reviewers are always welcome :)
[16:12] <Koon> sommer: yes
[16:12] <sommer> Koon: cool, just wanted to make sure
[16:13] <Koon> sommer: you want a section in the guide for that ?
[16:13] <zul> sommer: already is
[16:13] <sommer> I added it to the list this weekend... in the installation section
[16:13] <tarvid> i presume one of the motivations for virtualization is to limit the competition between a LAMP stack and a Tomcat sack?
[16:14] <soren> Err... Not really, no :)
[16:14] <Koon> tarvid: the only motivation is that it's fun.
[16:15] <mathiaz> sommer: Isn't it too late to add new material to the server guide ?
[16:15] <nealmcb> along with lots of other motivations.....
[16:15] <mathiaz> sommer: by material I meant brand new sections
[16:15] <tarvid> Oooh
[16:15] <sommer> mathiaz: ummm, I don't think it'd be a big deal... there's been some pretty large updates the last couple of days
[16:16] <mathiaz> sommer: right.
[16:16] <mathiaz> sommer: are you planning to write a section about tomcat ?
[16:16] <mathiaz> sommer: or would require some help on that ?
[16:16] <ScottK-laptop> Is the server guide affected by string freeze?
[16:16] <sommer> mathiaz: I wasn't planning to for Intrepid, but I'm not opposed to the idea
[16:16] <sommer> mathiaz: help would be great
[16:16] <sommer> ScottK-laptop: yes
[16:17] <Koon> sommer: I can help
[16:17] <ScottK-laptop> OK, so this'll all need freeze exceptions too.
[16:17] <sommer> ScottK-laptop: why?
[16:17] <mathiaz> sommer: hm - I'm not sure ScottK-laptop is refering to the same thing./
[16:17] <nealmcb> Hmmm - the top two hits on google for ubuntu server guide are still very confusing, with no link to 8.04.   I'll have to revisit my bug about that
[16:17] <sommer> Koon: that'd be great, and much appreciated
[16:18] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: there is a documentation freeze at the begining of the month of october
[16:18] <ScottK-laptop> OK.  I guess that's the relevant one then.
[16:18] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: but now that we're in UI-Freeze, the doc team can review the documentation to make sure it's accurate
[16:18] <tarvid> sommer - nag tarvid about Netbeans and Tomcat
[16:18] <Koon> sommer: you prefer me to draft something or that we discuss together on what should be in there and you draft it ?
[16:19] <sommer> Koon: if you don't mind drafting it that'd be great... I've used Tomcat for some legacy stuff, but I'm not that familiar with it
[16:19] <Koon> sommer: will do
[16:20] <mathiaz> Koon: I'd suggest that you branch the ubuntu-doc bzr repo - and submit it to sommer for merge
[16:20] <sommer> tarvid: if you'd like to add some content that'd be great too
[16:20] <mathiaz> [ACTION] Koon to draft a section about tomcat for the Server Guide.
[16:20] <tarvid> I'd like to get a ball of Netbeans, PHP, Drupal and Tomcat running
[16:21] <Seeker`> sorry about the lack of bot; I dont have access to the server it runs on myself, and I cant always get hold of the person that does
[16:21] <mathiaz> sommer: anything else ?
[16:21] <nealmcb> tarvid: a ball?
[16:21] <tarvid> Which is one of the reasons I had the frail hope virtualization would constrain Tomcat from eating my PHP stuff
[16:21] <mathiaz> Seeker`: no problem.
[16:21] <sommer> mathiaz: I don't think so
[16:21] <tarvid> glob, pile, stack, heap
[16:21] <mathiaz> sommer: ok - thanks for the work.
[16:21] <mathiaz> let's move o
[16:22] <mathiaz> n
[16:22] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Boot Support for Degraded RAID
[16:22] <mathiaz> kirkland: ^?
[16:22] <kirkland> mathiaz: \o/
[16:22] <nealmcb> tarvid: hmm - what problems are you having?
[16:22] <nealmcb> tarvid: (maybe later in the meeting)
[16:22] <kirkland> mathiaz: we now have a question in the Ubuntu Server installer, if you have installed / or /boot on an md device, that will ask if you want BOOT_DEGRADED=true|false
[16:22] <mathiaz> nealmcb: tarvid: could take this to #ubuntu-server ?
[16:22] <kirkland> mathiaz: no small feat, I might add :-)  kirkland pats himself on the back :-P
[16:23] <nealmcb> mathiaz: right - even better....
[16:23] <tarvid> it is a current but not top priority project
[16:23] <mathiaz> kirkland: awesome - so nothing is left for this spec in this release cycle ?
[16:23] <mathiaz> kirkland: except testing.
[16:23] <kirkland> mathiaz: actually, there was one regression introduced by adding dmraid to the default seed
[16:23] <kirkland> mathiaz: i solved that one late last night, and colin committed the fix this morning
[16:23] <mathiaz> kirkland: ok.
[16:23] <kirkland> mathiaz: i think the active development on this one is officially done :-)
[16:24] <mathiaz> kirkland: have you closed the bug  in LP ?
[16:24] <kirkland> mathiaz: there's a slew of them
[16:24] <kirkland> mathiaz: they have been appropriately referenced in various patches so as to auto-close
[16:24] <kirkland> mathiaz: the ones i've fixed anyway
[16:24] <kirkland> mathiaz: i should probably actually do a search for open duplicates
[16:24] <mathiaz> kirkland: ok. There is a long bug thread also
[16:25] <kirkland> mathiaz: or related bugs that might have been fixed by these efforts
[16:25] <kirkland> mathiaz: the MOST relevant ones are listed at the top of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootDegradedRaid
[16:25] <mathiaz> kirkland: ok.
[16:25] <mathiaz> kirkland: anything else to add on that topic ?
[16:26] <kirkland> mathiaz: nopers
[16:26] <mathiaz> kirkland: great - time to test now.
[16:26] <kirkland> mathiaz: true, as i said, blog post published
[16:26] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Tomcat6 server stack support
[16:26] <kirkland> mathiaz: http://dustinkirkland.wordpress.com/2008/09/16/intrepid-call-for-testing-booting-degraded-raid/
[16:26] <mathiaz> Koon: ^
[16:27] <mathiaz> Koon: I've uploaded your tomcat5.5 changes
[16:27] <Koon> mathiaz: the tasksel is in, thanks to zul. Tested and works ok
[16:27] <Koon> so on the tomcat6 front development is complete
[16:27] <Koon> on tomcat5.5 you uploaded the intrepid fixes
[16:27] <mathiaz> Koon: how are the dependencies going ?
[16:27] <Koon> there is a security update for hardy in the pipe, a SRU is next to fix other things
[16:28] <Koon> about deps, we are in a not too bad shape
[16:28] <Koon> see http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.intrepid/tomcat-server
[16:28] <jdstrand> fyi-- security fixes are uploaded and available (for hardy)
[16:29] <mathiaz> Koon: seems great.
[16:29] <Koon> the *gcj* + libasound2 packages are pulled in through recommends and are not needed
[16:29] <mathiaz> Koon: right - have you filed bugs about it ?
[16:29] <Koon> but that's almost as slim as it can get
[16:30] <Koon> mathiaz: yes, proposal was rejected for intrepid. Should be shot down in intrepid+1
[16:30] <mathiaz> Koon: good. Anything else on the tomcat front ?
[16:30] <Koon> nope
[16:30] <mathiaz> let's move on.
[16:30] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] landscape-client in Ubuntu
[16:30] <mathiaz> I've been working on fixing landscape-client.
[16:31] <mathiaz> I'm going to upload a new package that will use a Pre-Depends to make it work correctly.
[16:31] <ScottK> Why is it even in Ubuntu, isn't it just a client for a proprietary Canonical product?
[16:32] <jdstrand> ScottK: it's open-source and could be modified for anyone to use
[16:32] <ScottK> Right.  I said that wrong, in Ubuntu/in a standard install.
[16:33] <mathiaz> ScottK: landscape-client isn't install by default
[16:33] <mathiaz> ScottK: there is a choice in the install.
[16:33] <ScottK> OK.
[16:33] <kirkland> ScottK: it does contain some useful, open, aspects, including landscape-sysinfo
[16:34] <dendrobates> but that functionality has been split out so it does not require the full client.
[16:35] <mathiaz> dendrobates: so the pkg split is still under discussion. I'm hoping to get it working in alpha6.
[16:36] <dendrobates> mathiaz: upload it as you have it.  We can make any changes as needed.
[16:36] <mathiaz> That requires a PreDepends change and promotion of update-motd to main.
[16:36] <nealmcb> is the protocol used by landscape-client documented?
[16:36] <mathiaz> the last part is taken care of by kirkland
[16:36] <kirkland> mathiaz: waiting on pitti or doko
[16:36] <radix> nealmcb: it's not documented.
[16:37] <dendrobates> nealmcb: I don't know how much documentation, but the client is gpl, so it could be discovered.
[16:37] <radix> nealmcb: we'd like to have it documented, of course
[16:38] <mathiaz> ok - that's all I have on the landscape front.
[16:39] <mathiaz> That's all from last week minutes.
[16:39] <nealmcb> radix: thanks.  in the past there have been some discussions about how it might fit together with other server management tools.  having a protocol that is documented and some means of discussing changes to the protocol would help
[16:39] <mathiaz> Anything else to add wrt to last week meeting ?
[16:39] <soren> mathiaz: Have you in the process uncovered an Ubuntu policy for pre-depends?
[16:40] <mathiaz> soren: same as Debian - frowned upon
[16:40] <soren> mathiaz: ...and needs raising on ubuntu-devel first?
[16:40] <mathiaz> soren: but in this case it seems that it's the best option in the available time frame
[16:40] <mathiaz> soren: cjwatson mentionned that I should open a bug about it to explain why it has been done.
[16:41] <mathiaz> soren: with the aim to fix it in the mid-trem.
[16:41] <soren> mathiaz: Sounds reasonable.
[16:41] <soren> right.
[16:41] <mathiaz> soren: once the underlaying issue is fixed, we can remove the Pre-Depends.
[16:41] <soren> Right, right.
[16:42] <mathiaz> Let's move on.
[16:42] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Drupal install script
[16:42] <mathiaz> tarvid: ^^ ?
[16:42] <tarvid> here
[16:43] <tarvid> I kept track of the work flow I do repetitively installing Drupal for clients
[16:43] <Adri2000> (I'm sorry guys, I have to run, I should be back in ~15 minutes for the vsftpd item)
[16:43] <tarvid> it involves creating users, databases, dns zones and apache config files
[16:44] <mathiaz> tarvid: is this workflow documented somewhere ?
[16:44] <cjwatson> I just applied http://paste.ubuntu.com/47486/ to policy so that it recommends discussion on ubuntu-devel rather than debian-devel.
[16:44] <tarvid> perhaps by the script itself http://drupal.ls.net/node/47
[16:45] <tarvid> I have older svg files built with "dot"
[16:46] <mathiaz> tarvid: what's the current state of the drupal package ?
[16:46] <mathiaz> tarvid: we should try to aim at integrating your common tasks in the postinstall scripts.
[16:46] <mathiaz> tarvid: or may be create a package that would do this for you.
[16:46] <tarvid> 6.4  and still struggling to update the contributed modules from 5.x
[16:47] <tarvid> there were 6 minor and one major upgrade in the past 12 months
[16:47] <tarvid> staying secure is a challenge
[16:47] <tarvid> the same is true for all large PHP apps
[16:47] <mathiaz> tarvid: it seems that you have a good use case for the web framework specification.
[16:47] <tarvid> installing them in /var/www does not improve the security situation
[16:48] <tarvid> if I knew what that was
[16:48] <tarvid> I am a long time Linux Ubuntu server user
[16:48] <tarvid> but my bash skills are modest
[16:49] <tarvid> I can spot many issues in a shell script
[16:49] <tarvid> some are easy like checking the number of parameters
[16:49] <tarvid> I'd like to reuse existing scripts but I can find much to build on
[16:49] <mathiaz> tarvid: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/improved-web-application-framework
[16:49] <mathiaz> tarvid: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WebAppsPackaging
[16:49] <tarvid> that sounds appropriate
[16:49] <mathiaz> tarvid: you may wanna have a look at these page and provide input there.
[16:50] <mathiaz> tarvid: anything else ?
[16:50] <tarvid> simple issues like creating a new DNS zone are hard to find
[16:51] <tarvid> This may be of more interest in the Drupal world than Ubuntu
[16:51] <mathiaz> tarvid: that should be documented in the Ubuntu Server Guide then.
[16:52] <mathiaz> tarvid: if you could add your input to the spec mentionned above it would be appreciated.
[16:52] <mathiaz> Let's move on.
[16:52] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] nagios3 in main.
[16:52] <mathiaz> Koon: have you been working on that ?
[16:53] <Koon> mathiaz: no. apparently it wouldn't need a MIR so I'm trying to get ahold of someone that could fix it
[16:53] <mathiaz> Koon: IIRC there is also the fact that nagios is not in main for hardy.
[16:53] <mathiaz> soren: ^^ ?
[16:54] <soren> That seems to still be the case, yes.
[16:54] <soren> ...which is a mistake, by the way.
[16:54] <soren> ..and might actually get fixed (magically).
[16:54] <Koon> hmmm.
[16:54] <soren> It *has* been approved.
[16:54] <mathiaz> right
[16:55] <soren> And nagios3 isn't a rewrite (AFAIK), so getting it promoted should be a formality.
[16:55] <Koon> no it's pretty much the same thing, it's just that some plugins API is broken
[16:55] <soren> Oh, really?
[16:55] <zul> Koon: like which?
[16:56] <Koon> it exposes more macros and changed a few of them iirc
[16:56] <Koon> that was the rationale for the major revision number
[16:56]  * Koon looks it up
[16:56] <Koon> anyway, it's a very specific case so I'd like to solve it directly with someone with superpowers
[16:57] <mathiaz> Koon: right - ask an archive admin and refer to the bug
[16:57] <soren> http://nagios.sourceforge.net/docs/3_0/whatsnew.html
[16:57] <mathiaz> Koon: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nagios2/+bug/211323
[16:58] <zul> those bugs reports should be moved to nagios3 once its done
[16:58] <soren> Koon: Grab pitti. I've talked to him about it previously.
[16:58]  * Adri2000 is back
[16:58] <Koon> soren: that's the one I've tried and failed to reach so far
[16:58] <mathiaz> Koon: will take care of this ?
[16:58] <mathiaz> Koon: will *you* take care of this ?
[16:58] <Koon> that's on my todo list yes
[16:59] <soren> Koon: Ah. I've explained the issue to slangasek as well.
[16:59] <mathiaz> [ACTION] Koon to ask an archive admin to promote nagios3 to main.
[16:59] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] vsftpd 2.0.7
[16:59] <mathiaz> Adri2000: ^ ?
[16:59] <Adri2000> yep
[16:59] <Adri2000> basically, what I said in my email :)
[17:00] <mathiaz> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-server/2008-September/002231.html
[17:00] <Adri2000> vsftpd 2.0.7 has an interesting bug fix for FTPS, which makes it not work anymore with clients like filezilla
[17:00] <mathiaz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vsftpd/+bug/254905
[17:00] <Adri2000> there is not a lot of changes, and they look pretty safe
[17:01] <mathiaz> So you're asking whether that requires a FF exception ?
[17:01] <Adri2000> it does I think, but I wanted the opinion of the server team before requesting one
[17:02] <zul> it does imho
[17:02] <mathiaz> It's a new upstream - so you'd need a FFe.
[17:03] <soren> Not if it's bugfixes only..
[17:03] <mathiaz> soren: hm.. true
[17:04] <soren> At least, that's my understanding. I can't seem to find a reference to back it up right now, though.
[17:04] <Adri2000> there are two "Add option" and one "enhance" in the changelog, suggesting there are not only bugfixes but also a few enhancements
[17:04] <soren> Oh, that might just be for universe.
[17:04] <mathiaz> Adri2000: if you're not sure, ask for a FFe.
[17:04] <mathiaz> Adri2000: I think you've already talked about with slangasek
[17:04] <Adri2000> yes
[17:04] <ScottK-laptop> soren: Bugfix only is Main and Universe, I'm pretty sure.
[17:05] <Adri2000> but, am I wrong thinking vsftpd is in main and the recommended ftp server? and on the cd maybe also?
[17:05] <Adri2000> that's why I'm asking you :)
[17:05] <mathiaz> Adri2000: you're correct.
[17:05] <soren> Adri2000: No, that's correct.
[17:06] <Adri2000> ok
[17:06] <mathiaz> Adri2000: so go ahead - ask for a FFe. And then you can work on providing an updated package.
[17:06] <mathiaz> Adri2000: and seek for sponsoring via ubuntu-main-sponsor.
[17:06] <Adri2000> okay, will do
[17:07] <mathiaz> Adri2000: great.
[17:07] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[17:07] <mathiaz> anything else ?
[17:07] <ScottK-laptop> Since I was last at one of these meetings, clamav and spamassassin have been promoted and are seeded in server-ship/
[17:08] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: awesome!
[17:08] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: do you plan to have a mail-server task ?
[17:09] <ScottK-laptop> clamav is up to date with 0.94 and once I have some feedback on testing I'll upload it with the apparmor profile that jdstrand did.
[17:09]  * nealmcb cheers for ScottK
[17:09] <nealmcb> (and all the helpers)
[17:09] <ScottK-laptop> Also Debian has created a pkg-clamav team which I'm a part of and I'll maintain our packaging branches jointly with them in their Git repo.
[17:10] <ScottK-laptop> On amavisd-new, I got some input from ivoks and I'm going to do some slight refactoring/improvement of default preferences after this alpha is out.
[17:11] <nxvl> it's awesome see so many new people on the meetings :D
[17:11] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: do you think about adding clamav and amavisd-new to the mail-server task ?
[17:11] <ScottK-laptop> The Debian defaults are not entirely friendly IMO (defaults to mailing virus detection reports back to the send, for example).
[17:11] <ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: I considered it, but wasn't sure.
[17:11] <ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: I thought it needed some discussion first.
[17:12] <ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: Spamassassin too.
[17:12] <ScottK-laptop> Any objections to that?
[17:12] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: yop. ubuntu-server@ seems like a good place to start.
[17:12] <ScottK-laptop> OK.  I added them to server-ship to get them seeded so they'd stay in Main.
[17:14] <ScottK-laptop> mathiaz: I'll start a discussion and see if we get consensus and make the change after the alpha if one is wanted.
[17:14] <mathiaz> ScottK-laptop: seems like a good plan to me.
[17:14] <mathiaz> anything else ?
[17:14] <ScottK-laptop> Not from me.
[17:15] <mathiaz> [ACTION] ScottK-laptop to start a discussion on ubuntu-server@ about adding spamassassin, clamav and amavisd-new to the mail-server task.
[17:15] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
[17:15] <mathiaz> same place, same time, next week ?
[17:15] <sommer> +1
[17:16] <ScottK-laptop> I'll be on vacation next week, so it'll probably be the week after I make any changes.
[17:17] <mathiaz> Allright then. See you all next week here. Happy Alpha6 testing !
[17:17] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
[17:17] <sommer> thanks mathiaz, later on all
[17:22] <kirkland> sommer: ping me when you have time later