[03:09] <nullack> ping asac
[05:13] <nullack> ping asac if your there :)
[05:34] <nullack> Can I please appeal for people testing Intrepid to consider adding some ppa binaries for sound and flash experience
[05:34] <nullack> Its discussed here
[05:34] <nullack> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=5797571#post5797571
[05:34] <nullack> Including instructions for the PPA
[05:52] <stgraber> nullack: it's 6:34 his time, I'd wait an hour or two before he appears :)
[05:52] <nullack> Thanks Stephan :) the appeal for testing is open for any Intrepid testers :) Just a shameless bump
[06:04] <nullack> sbeattie : along with the other links I just suggested
[06:04] <nullack> sbeattie: Can I also give http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/demos/
[06:05] <nullack> sbeattie: that URL has a bunch of demos for flash 10 new features
[06:05] <nullack> To get coverage of new functionality
[07:03] <ara> morning all :)
[07:03] <nullack> Morning :) Or Evening in my case
[07:04] <ara> good evening nullack
[07:50] <edwinmmoore> Can someone please help me find where to report a successful upgrade from 8.04? I can't seem to find where to submit a testing form.
[07:55] <nullack> Success is good, I think generally its bugs that are reported
[07:57] <persia> edwinmmoore: Indeed.  Success is the expected case, so there's no need for the reports.  The exception is when there is a new candidate prepared for an Alpha, Beta, RC, or final release, when there is a rush to verify successful installation.
[07:57] <edwinmmoore> ok thanks
[07:57] <persia> If you want to participate, you'll want to start downloading the pre-Alpha test images about one day before the next Alpha date.
[10:07] <ara> davmor2: ping
[10:07] <davmor2> ara: pong
[10:08] <ara> davmor2: one quick one, in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Includes there are many applications test cases, i.e. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Includes/Ekiga
[10:08] <ara> davmor2: where are those referenced?
[10:09] <ara> davmor2: I though they were referenced somewhere below https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases, but I just don't see any
[10:09] <davmor2> ara: the idea is to alternate the test by swaping the includes line on the main page.   So I just wrote an includes for every app
[10:10] <ara> davmor2: which main page?
[10:11] <davmor2> ara: if you look at the main pages ie https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Ubuntu/LiveCd/LiveSession etc. you'll see that is is almost completely made up of include lines
[10:11] <ara> davmor2: OK. Thanks, that's what I was looking for :)
[10:12] <davmor2> mind you if that process could automated that would be better :)  But I have no idea if it is possible or how to do it :(
[13:12] <nullack> ping asac
[13:22] <heno> ara, schwuk: template for the test coverage page: https://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Coverage/Automation
[13:23] <nullack> Hi heno :)
[13:23] <heno> can we link to the actual test cases in some sensible way?
[13:23] <heno> Hi nullack, you've been looking for me?
[13:23] <heno> nullack: that was an excellent report you wrote up!
[13:24] <ara> heno: about the dk one, you mean, the actual results, or the description of the test case. anything else?
[13:24] <nullack> thanks, though I cant remember on which one :)
[13:25] <heno> ara: description and the script itself
[13:27] <ara> heno: yes, we can add a link to the code of the script: i.e. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~apulido/ubuntu-desktop-testing/intrepid/annotate/10?file_id=gedit_chains.py-20080821111816-r0lps6v9asa0u9fc-4
[13:27] <ara> heno: and a link to the description in the wiki
[13:31] <heno> ara: thanks, see update
[13:39] <asac> nullack: ?
[13:39] <nullack> Hi Alexander
[13:45] <asac> nullack: can you remind me about the ia32-libs once alpha-6 is out?
[13:45] <nullack> Sure, Ive notied it
[13:45] <nullack> Ive done testing of Conns PPA
[13:46] <nullack> And I have a test report on the last page of his thread on the Ubuntu forums
[13:46] <asac> nullack: for the pulseaudio thing Conn should really come into the dev channels and talk to TheMuso
[13:46] <nullack> Yeah, hes with him and adding his PPA to his guide so they are working close
[13:46] <nullack> But that thread also deals with flash
[13:47] <nullack> Most of the feedback is about flash
[13:47] <asac> nullack: in which way? its about flash + pulseaudio isnt it?
[13:47] <nullack> Yes
[13:47] <nullack> For example, performance is better on the latest flash RC
[13:47] <asac> thats TheMuso then. if he isnt cooperative i can surely help to make a point. but i think he is just not aware of the ppa
[13:47] <nullack> Generally the user experience is better
[13:47] <asac> and maybe there are issues with it
[13:48] <asac> nullack: its just a new flash right?
[13:48] <asac> (besides the pulseaudio fixes)
[13:48] <asac> nullack: we can do that directly after alpha-6
[13:48] <nullack> Yes, with some 32bit libs
[13:48] <asac> right
[13:48] <asac> libflashsupport removal for instance
[13:48] <asac> ok
[13:48] <nullack> Understood, Ive noted it for after A6
[13:49] <nullack> Ive done some comparative platform testing on Mac OSX too
[13:49] <nullack> And well have to get a new release from Adobe for Linux
[13:49] <nullack> Still some functions are broken on linux flash
[13:49] <asac> nullack: we will upgrade flash to whatever is out before we release
[13:49] <asac> i wouldnt be too bothered that we would be blocked by any beta freeze on this
[13:50] <nullack> Right, the current flash updated sept 15 on Linux isnt right
[13:50] <asac> nullack: but we should surely get the latest available in the archive for beta ... agreed
[13:50] <nullack> Good news
[13:50] <asac> nullack: isnt right? in which way?
[13:50] <asac> not final or are there new issues?
[13:50] <nullack> The following URL is a good test site
[13:51] <nullack> http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/demos/
[13:51] <asac> yeah
[13:51] <nullack> Try it on Mac OSX, and youll see how the flash has demos of features
[13:51] <nullack> On Linux, with Conns PPA and the Intrepid repo flash versions its all broken
[13:51] <asac> nullack: anyway. maybe one more word. if there are people really doing technical work in the forums they should surely join the dev channels and talk to the right people how and if we can use their work
[13:51] <nullack> The flash doesnt display menus and no demos
[13:52] <asac> thats much more efficient ;)
[13:52] <nullack> asac: Ill try to encourage him - he gets a bit grumpy
[13:52] <asac> grumpy about what?
[13:53] <nullack> Im not sure he knows who to talk too and gets frustrated about the level of progress
[13:53] <asac> nullack: right. thats what i mean. there will be _no_ progress if he does his work in the forums
[13:53] <asac> i understand that he might be frustrated.
[13:53] <asac> thats why i feel that he might just not know the proper procedures
[13:53] <asac> so lets help him
[13:54] <nullack> asac : Maybe you could PM him on the forums, coming from a dev it might be more exciting for Conn than coming from me
[13:54] <nullack> asac : Or another Dev :) Hes quite a knowledgeable guy
[13:54] <asac> nullack: i can do that ... can you give me a post he made?
[13:54] <asac> so i can click on it?
[13:54] <heno> ara: could you add some of your other desktop tests to that page? (https://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Coverage/Automation)
[13:54] <nullack> First post : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=866965
[13:54] <asac> nullack: i couldnt spott him in the thread you gave me
[13:55] <asac> psyke83 ?
[13:55] <nullack> Oh yes, thats his forum name, his name on LP is conn
[13:55] <heno> schwuk: if we add a page in that wiki for each test we can link to them from the mails
[13:55] <ara> heno: sure
[13:55] <nullack> asac : thanks :)
[13:58] <asac> nullack: ok ... ping send
[13:58] <asac> sent
[14:00] <persia> He also uses psyke83 in IRC when he's about.
[14:17] <schwuk> heno: we can, but we'll have to create that link in the database where the results are.
[14:18] <heno> schwuk: ok, this would make more sense when we get a case ID as well
[14:31] <nullack> heno: One of the things I try to decide with test cases is the level of detail that should go into pre requisite conditions, test data, how detailed the test execution instructions should be
[14:32] <nullack> heno : What Ive learnt is that less is good for building tests quickly
[14:32] <nullack> heno : But it can bite you when you need to bring in new staff to execute tests
[14:32] <nullack> heno : Or the team churns
[14:32] <nullack> heno : Some my first bit of feedback is that the test cases are pretty light
[14:33] <nullack> heno : That may or may not be a problem depending on the objective
[14:33] <heno> nullack: conversely, I'm worried about defining the cases too strictly so that everyone tests the same thing each time and we don't discover what happens with odd configurations
[14:34] <nullack> heno : exploratory testing is good
[14:34] <heno> how do we balance those?
[14:34] <nullack> heno : But repetability is an issue too
[14:34] <nullack> heno : In my experience the balance comes from the test plan - the objectives
[14:34] <nullack> heno : And knowing how stable your team members will be in the group
[14:34] <heno> ok, so you would suggest explicitly separating out those activities
[14:35] <nullack> Well, theres assumed knowledge in the cases
[14:35] <nullack> And because input data isnt defined
[14:35] <nullack> You cant be sure the test will pass next time
[14:35] <nullack> Often bugs rely on input data
[14:36] <nullack> IMHO Id try to have some more formal tests that specify the cases out in a more IEEE standard way
[14:36] <nullack> And keep some others as exploratory type tests
[14:36] <heno> we rarely specify input data in fact
[14:36] <nullack> Boudnary cases
[14:37] <nullack> *Boundary
[14:38] <heno> nullack: I take your point about the cases being light - could you walk through an example perhaps (in an ML post ideally) taking it from it's current state to a more formal one?
[14:38] <nullack> Sure, can I do it later though its 11:38 pm :)
[14:39] <heno> right :)
[14:39] <heno> cgregan has written a bit about this as well - http://ubuntu-mobile-edition.blogspot.com/
[14:39] <nullack> Sorry, Id love to work on Ubuntu 24/7 :)
[14:39] <heno> I hear you
[14:40] <nullack> Ill share one thing
[14:40] <nullack> I was doing a contract for a major Aus government department on a mission critical app
[14:40] <nullack> We were in SIT - sociability testing
[14:41] <nullack> I happened to being showing someone in my team some ideas about boundary testing
[14:41] <cgregan> heno: :-)
[14:41] <nullack> And I crashed the app, and it corrupted the DB in the process
[14:41] <nullack> It was a major crisis to resolve
[14:41] <nullack> And from then on, I really care about input data and boundary test conditions
[16:01] <ara> davmor2: ping
[16:01] <davmor2> ara: pong
[16:05] <davmor2> ara: What's up?
[16:06] <ara> davmor2: as you might know, we are moving the ubuntu test cases to testcases.qa.ubuntu.com
[16:06] <davmor2> Yeap
[16:06] <ara> davmor2: can you please have a look to https://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu/Applications and tell me if you understand what it is needed? (we want a wider community to help a bit)
[16:07] <ara> davmor2: if you also want to pick one, you're more than welcome ;-)
[16:11] <davmor2> ara: any reason why most of the images are missing?
[16:13] <davmor2> ah it's okay you gone back to adding the images as attachments :)
[16:14] <ara> davmor2: reason is because is not yet done. That's the calling for help :)
[16:15] <ara> davmor2: Gedit is the one that in completely migrated
[16:15] <davmor2> ara: No Prob's I'll add it to my to do for tomorrow if that is okay :)
[16:16] <ara> davmor2: sure, but you don't have to do them all :-) we will ask more people to give a hand
[16:17] <davmor2> shouldn't take too long anyway :)
[16:27] <heno> cr3, schwuk: https://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Coverage/Automation