[00:00] <wgrant> And we will indeed see that Launchpad is written using COBOL on Cogs.
[00:00] <zeth> beuno: I am not calling you a liar particularly
[00:00] <beuno> wgrant, maybe we're using those 11 months to re-write all the visual basic into python
[00:00] <jml> INTERCAL!
[00:00] <wgrant> beuno: Or vice-versa.
[00:00] <zeth> it is just that I take any software claims with a large bag of salt
[00:00] <jml> PLEASE COME FROM 15980
[00:00] <thumper> beuno: no perl -> python :)
[00:00]  * wgrant stabs jml.
[00:01] <beuno> thumper, I'm too scared of perl to even mention it
[00:01] <zeth> like how Windows Vista was going to have a database backed filesystem that would revolutionise file storage
[00:01] <wgrant> I guess somebody spent a while writing something to convert tracebacks from Language X to very convincing Zopey ones.
[00:02] <zeth> beuno: the 3 hour test suite could be on all the open source deps
[00:02] <Nafallo> wgrant: you're not on jabber. why do you hate freedom?
[00:02] <zeth> I do not believe in things I do not have evidence for
[00:02] <Peng_> jml: So bzr+http works now and is deployed?
[00:02] <wgrant> Nafallo: I am a freedom hater :(
[00:03] <jml> Peng_: the deployment is in process.
[00:03] <Nafallo> wgrant: I know. I'll just have to show you the light in Dec.
[00:03] <wgrant> That sounds dangerous.
[00:03] <Peng_> jml: One of my new branches was successfully mirrored today. What else needs to be done?
[00:03] <jml> Peng_: there's a known bug with mirroring Format7 branches over bzr+http, but that *should* be it.
[00:03]  * Nafallo packs the infrared laser to eyestab wgrant with :-)
[00:03] <jml> Peng_: I dunno :) The LOSAs are rolling out the new Launchpad _right now_
[00:04] <beuno> Peng_, what's the deal with you and bzr+http anyway?
[00:04] <Peng_> beuno: I felt like setting it up.
[00:04] <Peng_> beuno: I kept it enabled as encouragement to pester jml about fixing it. :)
[00:05] <spm> jml: nearly finished rolling out even...
[00:05] <Peng_> jml: Well, that was a Branch5 branch.
[00:05] <mwh> Peng_: you should check that the branch on launchpad is in the same format as the branch on your server
[00:05] <beuno> Peng_, that's good enough reason for me
[00:05] <Peng_> jml: What's the bug?
[00:05] <Peng_> mwh: Ooh.
[00:05] <jml> Peng_: lemme find it.
[00:05] <zeth> For me, what launchpad should have is not open-source the glue code but server side SVN export
[00:05] <mwh> Peng_: cause the bug is in this area of fun
[00:05] <Peng_> mwh: Yeah, it was upgraded.
[00:05] <wgrant> What does SVN have to do with anything, zeth?
[00:06] <Peng_> mwh: That's the shared repo branch format bug that was fixed recently?
[00:06] <mwh> Peng: well, actually, it will be branch6 whatever the source format, i think
[00:06] <Peng_> Mine was branch5.
[00:06] <zeth> wgrant, Well one thing I find difficult is that I develop with bzr, upload to launchpad, but then SVN users cannot download my code
[00:06] <Peng_> It takes work to keep Branch5 around too.
[00:06] <mwh> Peng: the bad part of this is that when launchpad comes to update the mirror it will go "oooh! the format has changed, i'll remirror the whole branch"
[00:06] <zeth> so I know using SVN instead of packaging more often is lazy
[00:07]  * wgrant wonders why anybody would voluntarily continue to use SVN.
[00:07] <Peng_> mwh: Ahh, that bug. Awesome.
[00:07] <zeth> but it is convienient
[00:07] <Peng_> So it'll make hundreds of requests every 6 hours? Perfect.
[00:07] <wgrant> How can it be more convenient?
[00:07] <zeth> well it is pre-installed in lots of systems
[00:07] <mwh> Peng: so we'll probably waste some of your bandwidth until we fix it (aka, upgrade the bzr we use to 1.7)
[00:07] <Peng_> mwh: I'm glad I didn't reenable mirroring of my other branches. :D
[00:07] <jml> which should be soon.
[00:07] <zeth> and not everyone has authorisation to install new software in every thing
[00:07] <mwh> Peng_: yeah, should be safe in maybe two days
[00:08] <zeth> wgrant, it is more convenient to give people SVN link instead of alpha/beta release when you are lazy
[00:08] <zeth> or are developing faster than you can package
[00:09] <zeth> forcing people to use bzr to get code from launchpad is bundling
[00:09] <beuno> or hg, or git, or bzr, or cvs...
[00:09] <zeth> well if forcing people to use IE to use Windows update is bad
[00:10] <zeth> then why should launchpad forcing bzr be not-bad?
[00:10] <beuno> should we force SVN instead?
[00:10] <zeth> I personally prefer to use Bzr
[00:10] <Peng_> LP automatically disabled mirroring all of my old branches because of its bugs. Once this is all fixed, can one of you reenable them all, or do I have to go through and press the "Try again" on each one?
[00:10] <wgrant> LP sucks. It doesn't support gopher.
[00:10] <zeth> no I am saying that launchpad should offer multiple ways to get your code out
[00:10] <Peng_> (Since all of them are abandoned, it's a waste of bandwidth and CPU anyway...)
[00:10] <mwh> Peng_: we can probably do something
[00:10] <jml> Peng_: we can probably sort something out
[00:11] <Peng_> :D
[00:11] <zeth> beuno: by offering multiple outputs, you are not forcing anyone
[00:11]  * jml hi-5s mwh
[00:11] <beuno> zeth, sure, if resources where unlimited, why not
[00:11] <zeth> where > were?
[00:11] <Peng_> There should be a "Try again on all" button or something, in case your server is down for a few days or something.
[00:12] <zeth> well
[00:12] <jml> Peng_: yeah. I also want an email notification of failed mirrors.
[00:12] <zeth> I doubt it would be that hard
[00:12] <zeth> since the work has been done on the client side
[00:12] <mwh> that doesn't mail you for every branch you own when your server goes down :)
[00:12] <jml> mwh: exactly.
[00:12] <Peng_> Haha, right.
[00:12] <jml> sabdfl was specific about that :)
[00:13] <zeth> there is a plugin that allows you to use SVN using bzr, cannot launchpad adopt the same code?
[00:13] <zeth> so you can provide choice to users of the code
[00:13] <zeth> users of code hosted at launchpad
[00:14] <thumper> zeth: github is bundling git
[00:14] <thumper> zeth: and sourceforge is bundling svn
[00:14] <zeth> beuno: but the where vs were is important, because the "where" inside your company, or "where" in the open source world is different levels of potential resources
[00:14] <zeth> thumper: two wrongs do not make a right
[00:14] <zeth> sourceforge should provide more choices then
[00:14] <thumper> zeth: but three lefts are a right
[00:14] <cjwatson> bundling is bad when it accompanies a monopoly. Simply providing two pieces of software together isn't evil
[00:15] <zeth> sourceforge provide two?
[00:15] <zeth> they provide CVS and SVN?
[00:15] <slangasek> both of which are terrible :)
[00:15] <zeth> both of which have a large installed base
[00:15]  * beuno chuckles
[00:15]  * Peng_ should file a bug
[00:15] <jml> cjwatson: hello. :)
[00:16] <wgrant> Oh dear, it's the attack of the distrogods.
[00:16] <zeth> I am not saying I want to use SVN for me, I am saying that if I host code on launchpad, allowing people to check it out using SVN, which often comes in the OS, would be very helpful
[00:16] <Romario> hi there, anyone a second to help me ? i am unable to push code to a branch since a few hours
[00:16] <Peng_> Romario: Go on
[00:16] <Romario> i am getting a message: Permission denied (publickey)
[00:16] <zeth> Romario: have you tried after 00:00 ?
[00:16] <mwh> Romario: launchpad is being upgraded
[00:16] <Romario> yes
[00:16] <RAOF> Romario: Launchpad was down, and is still not fully up.
[00:17] <Romario> ah, ok
[00:17] <Peng_> ...Oh
[00:17] <Romario> maybe this is the problem
[00:17] <Romario> it isnt too urgent so i'll try tomorrow
[00:17] <zeth> Romario: http://news.launchpad.net/notifications/launchpad-offline-2200-2359-utc-17th-september-2008
[00:18] <Romario> ok, thanks guys
[00:18] <Romario> I'll be patient ;-)
[00:18] <slangasek> wgrant: just waiting for the green light so I can kick an ubiquity update through soyuz :)
[00:19] <slangasek> zeth: uh, I've not heard of any OSes coming with svn preinstalled
[00:19] <wgrant> The topic suggests that it's up, but apparently not...
[00:19] <slangasek> and if they do, they have my condolences
[00:19] <wgrant> Haha.
[00:19] <cjwatson> there's nothing to stop somebody writing a subversion plugin that knows how to read from bzr branches (well, apart from it being very difficult to do)
[00:19] <slangasek> ooh, my cronjob is back, yay
[00:20] <cjwatson> the bzr/svn integration that I think zeth must be talking about is the reverse of that, a bzr plugin that knows how to read from and write to svn repositories. adopting that code would not magically make bzr branches available by svn
[00:21] <Peng_> bzr-svn can push back to svn.
[00:21] <cjwatson> "a bzr plugin that knows how to read from and write to svn repositories"
[00:21] <slangasek> it can; but bzr is a distributed vcs whereas svn is not, so there's an important asymmetry there
[00:21] <cjwatson> that doesn't turn a bzr branch into an svn repository
[00:21] <wgrant> cjwatson: It can, actually. You can push a branch to an empty SVN repo, AFAIK.
[00:22] <wgrant> But it's pointless.
[00:22] <cjwatson> that's little good if it's only one-way
[00:22] <cjwatson> you might be able to set it up but it would be pretty hideous
[00:22] <wgrant> There's little chance of it ever being two-way due to them being... rather different ideas.
[00:22] <slangasek> it would give you a read-only svn mirror, I guess
[00:22] <slangasek> but only of select branches
[00:23] <slangasek> and with terrible revision history visibility from the svn client
[00:23] <cjwatson> nobody else attempts to make repositories available in multiple formats, anyway. they support multiple revision control systems but you only get to use one at a time. that's because nobody else is quite that insane either :-)
[00:24] <cjwatson> in fact launchpad is the only system I'm aware of that's trying to provide additional ways of checking out repositories on a large scale, by means of making as much of the world as possible available using bzr
[00:26] <cjwatson> but that's one-way read-only rolling imports too
[00:38] <bdmurray> "Duplicate Of:" is optional at a bug's +duplicate page?
[00:39] <jml> bdmurray: yeah, you can make it empty to unset it.
[00:39] <jml> bdmurray: confused me a bit when I first saw it, actually.
[00:39] <bdmurray> right, but if it is already empty should it shouldn't be optional right?
[00:40] <jml> bdmurray: I guess not.. I mean, it'd just be a no-op.
[00:41] <mwh> most of the "(optional)" tags on launchpad are traps for the unwary or something
[01:00] <hoop> hello
[01:00] <hoop> please, what would this error mean?
[01:00] <hoop> Permission denied (publickey).
[01:00] <hoop> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: please check connectivity and permissions (and try -Dhpss if further diagnosis is required)
[01:00] <mwh> hoop: codehosting is not yet back up since the launchpad rollout an hour ago
[01:00] <mwh> hoop: will be back soon
[01:01] <hoop> oh, okay :) thanks
[01:07] <hoop> mwh, is there a way to know when it is back, or I just try later?
[01:07] <jml> hoop: try now :)
[01:07] <mwh> hoop: yeah, it should be working now
[01:08] <hoop> worked! thank you =)
[02:05] <barry_> python-dev
[02:18] <lamalex> does launchpad's search support wildcards?
[02:18] <lamalex> I'm trying to find a bug that I know exists but I can't remember the name, I know it has a < in the title though
[02:18] <lamalex> that's all I know
[02:20] <lamalex> nm, gmail found it for me
[02:41] <vadi2> Can someone please help and stop launchpad spam, it subscribed several teams to one and this is not supposed to work that way: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/45313
[02:43] <Hobbsee> vadi2: not at this time of day, but you'd need kiko, etc.
[02:43] <vadi2> alright
[02:43] <Hobbsee> vadi2: but i'd expect you should be able to undo that yourself.
[02:44] <vadi2> I already searched everywhere.
[02:44] <vadi2> I don't recall doing that to begin with.
[02:45] <Hobbsee> come on launchpad.  Please don't take 10+ seconds to load a new page.
[02:45] <Hobbsee> make that 30+
[02:45] <Hobbsee> 35.992!
[02:46] <Hobbsee> vadi2: is it just bugs, or all of it?
[02:46] <vadi2> only bugs that I know of, those questions don't have answers and launchpad doesn't do blueprints
[02:46] <vadi2> but bugs are bad enough
[02:46] <Hobbsee> vadi2: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/getdeb-web/+subscribe
[02:47] <vadi2> ahah...
[02:47] <Hobbsee> vadi2: obvious, isn't it?
[02:47] <vadi2> okay. I did do that myself. I thought I was signing up myself to those groups, not those groups to getdeb...
[02:47] <Hobbsee> (not!)
[02:47] <Hobbsee> ahhh.
[02:48] <vadi2> ty Hobbsee
[02:48] <Hobbsee> vadi2: y/w.  Do you know how to add yourself to the teams?
[02:48] <vadi2> yeah, go to the team page and click join team
[02:48] <Hobbsee> :)
[03:37] <kirkland> how long does it take a team mailing list to get approved in Launchpad, generally?
[03:39] <thumper> kirkland: not sure, but the people to bug are barry, flacoste and kiko (one of them anyway)
[03:39] <kirkland> thumper: thanks ;-)
[03:39] <thumper> possibly other people, but likely they are in the same TX
[03:39] <thumper> TZ
[03:39] <thumper> not texas
[05:50] <persia> jml: Moving here to get back on-topic.
[05:50] <jml> ahh yes.
[05:51] <persia> In the specific case of a web service with a public beta interface, I think that "Fix Committed" and "Fix Released" doesn't do well for mapping issues.
[05:51]  * jml neither
[05:51] <persia> Essentially, one wants somehting "Fix Committed" when it hits VCS trunk, and "Fix Released" when it is in a shipping product.
[05:51] <persia> For projects that have a tarball, this works.
[05:52] <persia> For a web service, you have a moving target of your public beta, which maps poorly to the set of things that are Fix Committed.
[05:52] <persia> IF you set these things to Fix Released, then you lose the ability to track what is actually in the production web service.
[05:53] <jml> right. the thing here is that 'released' has an implicit destination.
[05:53] <persia> One possible workaround would be to give a version number to each push to the beta interface (as a "release"), and then indicate which of those happened to apply to the production service, but that might be tricky.
[05:54] <persia> So the (daily?) updates to edge would be e.g. 2.1.9.1, 2.1.9.2, 2.1.9.3, ...  and when 2.1.9 was finally pushed to lpnet, it would happen to be 2.1.9.22 or something, and edge would get 2.1.10.1
[05:54] <persia> Mind you, I'm not sure how you guys tend to work, so this may or may not actually be a feasible workaround.
[05:55] <persia> Also, there would need to be some sensible way to gather the set of things that were included in all published 2.1.9 releases for release notes when pushing to lpnet, etc.
[05:56] <jml> yeah
[05:56] <persia> Also, does anyone happen to know the bug number for the exceedingly small fonts?  I've seen a couple mentions about the issue, but none with a bug number, and find myself squinting today.
[05:56] <jml> not off the top of my head.
[05:57] <persia> jml: No worries.  I'm just hoping *someone* does, not you.  I'll search for it later if nobody knows.
[05:57] <jml> a quick search found some older bugs.
[06:01] <persia> Yeah.  That was my problem too.
[06:01] <persia> There's some specific change in this series that generated some mail and IRC traffic, but that's not necessarily related to the older font bugs.
[06:04] <jamesh> jml: out of interest, are you using testresources for anything public?
[06:04] <jamesh> or just improving it for the hell of it? :)
[06:05] <jml> jamesh: not for anything public yet.
[06:05] <jml> jamesh: I want it to join my pyunit-friends movement.
[06:05] <jml> jamesh: also, I'd like to use it internally in Launchpad.
[06:15] <jamesh> jml: looks like I'm the only one who has been filing bugs against it ...
[06:16] <jml> jamesh: I toyed with using it in Twisted a few years ago
[06:16] <jml> jamesh: but I find it really hard to change Twisted, even when it's a good idea.
[06:16] <jamesh> having an example of best practice use of the code would have been useful ...
[06:16] <jml> jamesh: *nod*
[06:17] <jml> jamesh: the reason I started working on it again is that we do a bunch of things that are kind of close to testresources
[06:18] <jml> jamesh: but I felt that writing my own separate version wasn't the best approach.
[06:18] <jamesh> I wonder if it'd be easier to use if there were some constraints on the actual resource objects
[06:18] <jml> jamesh: well, my next plan is to have a base class for the resource objects.
[06:18] <jml> jamesh: which will have setUp, tearDown and addCleanup.
[06:19] <jamesh> resource dependencies would be nice too
[06:19] <jml> jamesh: it won't be a constraint, per se, but it should make it easier to write them.
[06:19] <jml> jamesh: that's in the revised todo, I think.
[07:08] <didrocks> Hi there!
[07:08] <jml> hi
[07:09] <didrocks> I have uploaded in my ppa, two days ago a wrong version number of a package for iptables (1.4.0-4ubuntu2~hardy1)
[07:09] <didrocks> I ask for a removal, what has be done in LP
[07:09] <didrocks> I know that we have to wait for 24 hours to have it removed from the archives
[07:10] <didrocks> but it's still not done by the cron, apparently:
[07:10] <didrocks> 2008-09-18 06:07:58 WARNING     iptables_1.4.0-4ubuntu2~hardy1~ppa1_i386.deb: Version older than that in the archive. 1.4.0-4ubuntu2~hardy1~ppa1 <= 1.4.0-4ubuntu2~hardy1
[07:10] <didrocks> (an so, my build failed because of upload)
[07:15] <persia> didrocks: Indeed.  This is by design.  There is no way to recover sensibly.
[07:16] <persia> didrocks: You could bump the version to something like 1.4.0-4ubuntu2~hardy2~ppa1 but users will not then upgrade to 1.4.0-4ubuntu2~hardy1 if it is pushed to backports.
[07:16] <didrocks> persia: during a ppa presentation, it seemed to me that there were an automatic removal within the 24 hours from the archives, did I dreamt ? :)
[07:16] <persia> didrocks: Removal of the packages doesn't remove the listings from the blacklist
[07:16] <persia> You could put it in a different PPA.
[07:16] <didrocks> eventually…
[07:17] <persia> No today.  Just sign up for a new account.
[07:17] <didrocks> I was so dum to forgot this ~ppa…
[07:17] <persia> didrocks: Well, maybe.  maybe you're using the PPA for something different than that for which it was designed (and no, I don't know towards what end it was designed, and don't think anyone currently does)
[07:18] <didrocks> persia: so, a possible bypass is to use another ppa (I do not want people testing iptables can't then upgrade to the backport one, if accepted)
[07:19] <persia> didrocks: Yep.  Each PPA has a different blacklist.
[07:19] <didrocks> thx persia
[07:19] <wgrant> You could also create a teamk.;
[07:19] <wgrant> s/k.;/./
[07:19] <persia> wgrant: Easier to make a new user go away when testing is complete from a merge than to make a team go away, isn't it?
[07:20] <wgrant> persia: True.
[07:25] <wgrant> Oh my god. Is there really no way for me to remove all of the CVEs on bug #270404 without severe pain?
[07:25] <wgrant> Why are there not checkboxes on +unlinkcve!?
[08:37] <imyojimbo> hi, im trying to push a branch to lp , and i get "The server's host key is not cached in the registry"
[08:37] <wgrant> That is normal if you're doing it for the first time on Windows.
[08:39] <imyojimbo> so what do i do? it errors
[08:39] <imyojimbo> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: please check connectivity and permissions (and try -Dhpss if further diagnosis is required)
[08:40] <wgrant> imyojimbo: Bug #237297 seems to give a workaround.
[08:40] <wgrant> But I'm not sure about how this stuff works on Windows.
[09:53] <_mh> hi all -- I've been trying to lookup if bazaar has any tag replacement like svn for $Id$ $author$, etc -- is there some documentation anyone can point me towards pls?
[09:53] <poolie> _mh, there's a plugin
[09:53] <poolie> um
[09:54] <poolie> i think
[09:54] <poolie> https://launchpad.net/bzr-keywords
[09:54] <_mh> I thought the plugin was called 'um' ; how clever am i? :)
[09:54] <_mh> poolie, many thanks, checking it out
[10:04] <jamesh> _mh: there is also the "bzr version-info" command you could use as part of your build process
[10:04]  * wgrant dislikes things like $Id$
[10:04] <wgrant> They make for useless noise in diffs.
[10:05] <_mh> jamesh, I'll check that out as well, thank you
[10:05] <jamesh> if you're doing a Python program, "bzr version-info --python" will generate a Python module that'll provide the info
[10:15] <imyojimbo0> (i was disconnected, can u write again)
[10:20] <imyojimbo0> im using bzr+windows. bzr push to launchpad fails on me, errors something about "The server's host key is not cached in the registry." and after that "bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: please check connectivity and permissions"
[10:21] <wgrant> 17:40:35 < wgrant> imyojimbo: Bug #237297 seems to give a workaround.
[10:21] <wgrant> 17:40:43 < wgrant> But I'm not sure about how this stuff works on Windows.
[10:21] <wgrant> imyojimbo0: ^^
[10:22] <imyojimbo0> i've read that page. i still dont understand how to fix this
[10:22] <imyojimbo0> i understand i need to load the keys into the cache or something. dont know how
[10:23] <wgrant> Try opening up PuTTY and connecting to bazaar.launchpad.net
[10:23] <wgrant> That should ask you to confirm the key.
[10:23] <wgrant> Once you do that, you should be able to use bzr.
[10:23] <imyojimbo0> is bazaar.launchpad.net a valid ssh server?
[10:24] <wgrant> It won't let you get a shell.
[10:24] <wgrant> But it will let you connect.
[10:24] <wgrant> (and throw you out, but that doesn't matter here)
[10:27] <imyojimbo0> ok, its doing something now
[10:27] <imyojimbo0> taking quite along time
[10:30] <imyojimbo0> Created new branch!
[10:30] <imyojimbo0> wgrant cool, thanks alot
[10:30] <wgrant> imyojimbo0: Excellent! No problem.
[10:31] <imyojimbo0> is this something thats gonna be fixed in the future, or is this the way it should be?
[10:35] <wgrant> imyojimbo0: It's the way it should be.
[10:35] <wgrant> bzr should perhaps prompt you better.
[10:35] <wgrant> But it does fine on !Windows, AFAIK.
[10:49] <Hobbsee> dear launchpad....what the hell?  No love, me.
[10:49] <Hobbsee> can someone explain to me how bug nomination works please?
[10:52] <Hobbsee> kiko: can you help me with this?  This used to work in an obvious way.
[10:53] <Hobbsee> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/246269 - if you hit approve/decline on the last one, it pops up an approve button, and a decline button, on initramfs-tools.  What I want to know is which task i'll actually be changing, and hwo to change the lower tasks.
[11:00] <gmb> Hobbsee: That's very weird behaviour. Let me see if I can reproduce it.
[11:04] <Hobbsee> gmb: and the only reason the url is like that (re. flashplugin-nonfree) is because there's no obvious rune (such as bugs.lp.net/<bug number> or similar) to load a bug without a source package.
[11:05] <gmb> Hobbsee: https://launchpad.net/bugs/246269 should work (though why we do that but not bugs.lp.net/$bug I don't know)
[11:05] <gmb> yes, thanks ubottu.
[11:05] <Hobbsee> gmb: oh, so I tried everything but.  right.
[11:06] <gmb> Well, we wouldn't want to make your life easy...
[11:06] <wgrant> gmb: It's because distro nominations are stupid and broken.
[11:06] <wgrant> gmb: They are across all sourcepackages.
[11:07] <wgrant> This is broken, annoying, stupid and longstanding.
[11:07] <wgrant> The similar JS bug just makes it more obvious, perhaps.
[11:07] <Hobbsee> gmb: yeah, well.  I knew that much.
[11:07] <Hobbsee> :)
[11:07] <gmb> wgrant: Are there bugs filed about this?
[11:07] <wgrant> gmb: Of course.
[11:07]  * wgrant digs them up.
[11:07] <gmb> wgrant: Sorry, silly question.
[11:09] <wgrant> Bug #110195
[11:09] <wgrant> Bug #162411, bug #262577 are also relevant.
[11:10] <gmb> wgrant: Right, thanks.
[11:10] <Hobbsee> oh, that's only 17 months old.  A young bug!
[11:11]  * Hobbsee --> dinner.
[11:11] <wgrant> gmb: You're not likely to find an LP complaint of mine that hasn't been filed. Hence the "Of course".
[11:12] <gmb> wgrant: As it should be :).
[11:13] <gmb> Hobbsee, wgrant: So, JS problem is quite simply shonky JavaScript, but it arises, I think, from the fact that nominations are created at the bug level (even though they're approved or rejected at the bug task level).
[11:14] <wgrant> That is a misfeature, but it looks that way.
[11:14] <gmb> (Because the area that's supposed to be expanded is named after the nomination object, and there's only one of those for the bug, so all the approve/decline areas are named the same thing).
[11:14] <wgrant> That's what I suspected.
[11:15] <Hobbsee> wgrant: can you file the lack of relevant headers bug then too?  :P
[11:15] <Hobbsee> gmb: right, OK.
[11:15] <gmb> Hobbsee: to answer your question, then, if the buttons appear for initramfs-tools then they'll affect initramfs-tools.
[11:15] <Hobbsee> and not the rest?
[11:16] <wgrant> I wish.
[11:16] <gmb> Checking now...
[11:16] <gmb> Hobbsee: No, they'll affect everything. Which is bonkers.
[11:17] <Hobbsee> gmb: oh, lovely.
[11:17] <wgrant> That is bug #110195.
[11:17] <Hobbsee> gmb: bonkers is better than what I was thinking.
[11:17] <wgrant> Isn't it?
[11:17] <Hobbsee> anyway, --> really @ dinner.
[11:18]  * gmb files a bug about the JS, looks into 110195 in more detail.
[11:19] <wgrant> AFAICT the misfeature in #110195 is quite deliberate. There must have been quite some extra work to make it create all those tasks.
[11:19] <gmb> wgrant: Well, I'm not sure yet that nominations aren't just working on the bug level and appearing to look like they work on the task level, which really would be crackers.
[11:21] <wgrant> Right, I guess it could well just be that the entire bug is nominated for the series. That would only manifest itself where one could have multiple tasks sharing the same set of series, ie. distributions...
[11:21] <wgrant> But it is still surely extra work to make it work on a bug level.
[11:22] <wgrant> Don't attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by LP's annoying project-centricity, I guess.
[12:07]  * Hobbsee finally gets back from dinner.
[12:07] <Hobbsee> gmb: oh good.  I'll hope for a less bonkers LP then.
[12:07] <\sh> hmm
[12:08] <\sh> looks like I don't get it somehow
[12:08] <gmb> Hobbsee: it's going to be our codename for 3.0: "Now with 50% less crack"
[12:08] <Hobbsee> gmb: woot!
[12:08] <Hobbsee> gmb: but with 50% more useless features, which introduce more crack?
[12:09]  * Hobbsee still routinely goes for any new people / team URL's she visits, and sticks their people in random countries.
[12:09]  * gmb confesses he's been tempted to do that more than once
[12:10] <gmb> I'm sure there's a team somewhere all of whose members are in Antarctica.
[12:10] <\sh> if somebody can enlighten me, why http://paste.ubuntu.com/48000/ <- this is not working?
[12:10] <Hobbsee> gmb: i'm in antartica.
[12:10] <Hobbsee> (which I placed.  but still)
[12:11] <mwh> \sh: you need to pass the service root in to the constructor don't you?
[12:11]  * mwh is not here
[12:11] <\sh> mwh: not reading the introduction.txt
[12:12] <\sh> there it's just pass the credentials
[12:12] <\sh> but reading launchpad.py yes
[12:12] <\sh> gnarf
[12:14] <\sh> yay...works
[12:17] <gnomefreak> what version of LP are the launchpad-beta-testers on?
[12:19] <gnomefreak> nevermind i see it in lower right corner
[12:30] <Hobbsee> gmb: will it also be "and 50% faster"?
[12:30] <Hobbsee> gmb: do you think you could get launchpad to load in under 6 seconds, on my machine?  :)
[12:31] <Hobbsee> 20 seconds for the extremely long firefox bug.
[12:34] <wgrant> Almost identical for me.
[12:34]  * Hobbsee wonders how to list all open bugs, in everything.
[12:34] <Hobbsee> oh, you search with an empty string.  right.
[12:35] <Hobbsee> argh.  that incredibly stupid milestone bug isn't fixed yet either.
[12:35] <Hobbsee> less maps, more fixes for incredibly stupid bugs, please :)
[13:09] <NCommander> The Hardy, Gutsy, and Fiesty backports project is getting hit with a load of spam
[13:18] <NCommander> Is there any way to magicially get close roughly 15-20 bugs on two projects?
[13:19] <Hobbsee> NCommander: spam from what?
[13:19] <NCommander> Hobbsee: This person opened 15 needs-packaging bugs, then added fiety and gutsy backports to all of them
[13:19] <NCommander> All in bulk it seems
[13:19] <Hobbsee> NCommander: have you tried speaking to the person yet?
[13:19] <NCommander> No contact address on his LP profile
[13:19] <Hobbsee> NCommander: you can use the mail interface, or py-lp-bugs somehow.
[13:20] <NCommander> What mail interface
[13:20] <NCommander> Ugh, now my mailbox is at 80
[13:20] <NCommander> It was at 10 just 20 minutes ago
[13:21] <Hobbsee> https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/EmailInterface
[13:21] <NCommander> Ugh
[13:21] <NCommander> He's adding it to EVERY needs-packaging requests
[13:22] <Hobbsee> NCommander: what's the user ID?
[13:22] <Hobbsee> (not that I can do anything, but hopefully the bugsquad knows about him)
[13:22] <intellectronica> NCommander: using the api?
[13:22] <Hobbsee> intellectronica!
[13:22] <intellectronica> NCommander: getting the list of bugs is not available yet (hopefully early next week), but if you have the list of bugs you can use the api to close them
[13:22] <intellectronica> Hobbsee!
[13:23] <NCommander> https://edge.launchpad.net/~technical-ezekiel33
[13:23] <Hobbsee> intellectronica: i have a request for LP3.0.
[13:23] <intellectronica> Hobbsee: file a bug?...
[13:23] <Hobbsee> intellectronica: it's bigger than that.
[13:23] <intellectronica> Hobbsee: what is it, b.t.w?
[13:23] <intellectronica> Hobbsee: write a blueprint?...
[13:23] <Hobbsee> intellectronica: I want to see launchpad load times cut in half.  That means, loading a page on an australian connection, in under 6 seconds.  Do you think it's doable?
[13:24] <Hobbsee> (australian broadband, that is)
[13:24] <Hobbsee> and no more of these 20-40 second page loads.
[13:25] <intellectronica> Hobbsee: load times are a combination of many things. but rest assured, this is one of the things that are high on our priority list for 3.0
[13:25] <Hobbsee> intellectronica: i'm aware of that - but the rest of the pages i load take nothing like 12 seconds to load :)
[13:25] <Hobbsee> (from a non-LP site)
[13:25] <Hobbsee> and none take 40.
[13:26] <NCommander> I never get these mythical 20-40 second loads
[13:27] <intellectronica> Hobbsee: 40 seconds to load? that's terrible. please please please file bugs about such cases. we don't always know, since we only measure the time it takes to render the pages on the server, not how long it takes to actually load them from various places around the world
[13:27] <Hobbsee> intellectronica: yeah, I had one of them earlier.
[13:27] <intellectronica> Hobbsee: b.t.w you do cache, right? you're not loading all the images, etc, with every page?...
[13:27] <NCommander> Hobbsee: the firefir EULA page :-)
[13:27] <Hobbsee> intellectronica: I can try - i only recently started using the extended statusbar extension, which actually files them.
[13:27] <Hobbsee> intellectronica: correct, i do - but that doesn't seem to help when starting from a non-LP site.
[13:28] <Hobbsee> NCommander: that bug?  No, that takes 21 seconds.
[13:28] <Hobbsee> er, s/files/times/
[13:29] <Hobbsee> hm, 13 seconds this time.  It was taking 21 seconds when i loaded it before.
[13:29] <NCommander> reboot time
[13:30] <intellectronica> Hobbsee: also, to isolate load time from desktop slowness, try timing the load of the same page with wget or curl
[13:31] <Hobbsee> intellectronica: that's true.
[14:09] <flacoste> This is a bit tricky, as Wiki pages, many times, are a result of lengthy phone/in person discussions, so decisions like
[14:09] <flacoste> priorities may be controversial with users.
[14:09] <flacoste> I guess I'm a bit afraid that if the doors are too wide open, we may end up with hundreds of "PLAES IMPLAMANT THIS!!!"
[14:09] <flacoste> comments. OTOH, that could happen with LP bugs today, so maybe it's just me being overly paranoid.
[14:10] <flacoste> lol
[14:10] <flacoste> damn button 2, i shouldn't select everything i read
[14:17] <wgrant> Good to see it is being discussed, however.
[14:22] <NCommander> Hobbsee: Well, two emails sent, and he still spams our tracker
[14:23] <Hobbsee> NCommander: you might try to poke someone into finding an admin and asking them to remove his account, then.
[14:24]  * NCommander looks to see if any admin is awake
[14:26]  * beuno pokes kiko-afk and Rinchen
[15:08] <radix> is there a way to share milestones between two projects?
[15:08] <andrea-bs> radix: are they subprojects of the same superproject?
[15:09] <radix> andrea-bs: they could be, but they're not now
[15:09] <radix> andrea-bs: would that help?
[15:09] <radix> I couldn't find a way to create a milestone in a superproject
[15:09] <beuno> andrea-bs, I don't think you an share milestones among projects, no
[15:10] <andrea-bs> radix: if the milestones of two (or more) subprojects have the same name, they can be considered "shared"
[15:10] <radix> andrea-bs: does launchpad do something special, or are you just saying I could treat them as the same?
[15:10] <andrea-bs> radix: you'll geto something like this: https://launchpad.net/launchpad-project/+milestones
[15:12] <andrea-bs> in a sense they are shared because you can view bugs and blueprints targeted in the same page, but actually they aren't -- they only have the same name and superproject
[15:12] <radix> ok
[15:13] <radix> I think probably one of my biggest annoyances is that you can't edit the details of two bug tasks at the same time
[15:24] <det> Does Launchpad have any advantages over Opensuse build service? IOW, why not use OBS for your repo for all you packages (fedora/suse/ubuntu/etc)?
[15:34] <persia> det: As a competitor to PPAs, it may make sense.  For LP-hosted distros, it probably makes more sense to use Soyuz for the integration with Malone (uploads-close-bugs).
[15:39] <DnaX> Hi, please, anyone can do it? https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/44656
[15:39] <DnaX> require a DB patch
[15:44]  * beuno pokes kiko-afk again ^
[15:45] <DnaX> who are launchpad admins?
[15:47] <andrea-bs> DnaX: https://launchpad.net/~admins
[15:47] <DnaX> thank you andrea-bs :P
[16:02] <DnaX> kiko-afk: can you do a DB patch?
[16:35] <kirkland> flacoste: kiko-afk: how long does it take a team mailing list to get approved in Launchpad, generally?
[16:36] <flacoste> kirkland: it depends, can be instantaneous if you ask here!
[16:36] <flacoste> kirkland: what list?
[16:36] <flacoste> barry: ^^^
[16:36] <kirkland> flacoste: ecryptfs, thanks!
[16:36] <flacoste> kirkland: officially, we look at it daily
[16:36] <flacoste> so a turnaround of one day
[16:36] <flacoste> but, we sometime slack on that
[16:36] <flacoste> but that should be fixed next week
[16:37] <kirkland> flacoste: gotcha
[16:37] <barry> kirkland: done!
[16:37] <kirkland> barry: rock on, thanks ;-)
[16:38] <barry> kirkland: np!
[16:38] <kirkland> one more unrelated question....
[16:38] <kirkland> is there a way to reverse sort the list of files at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kirkland/ecryptfs/release_tarballs/files for example?
[16:39] <kirkland> i see sort=filename
[16:39] <kirkland> but i want to reverse sort on filename
[16:39] <beuno> kirkland, hm, no. But, if you file a bug, I will make it happen!
[16:39] <kirkland> beuno: cool, thanks ;-)
[16:39] <beuno> https://bugs.launchpad.net/loggerhead
[16:41] <kirkland> beuno: https://bugs.launchpad.net/loggerhead/+bug/271787
[16:41] <kirkland> beuno: thanks ;-)
[16:42] <beuno> kirkland, your welcome  :)
[16:55] <ignas> hi, how do I send a question to another project?
[16:56] <ignas> i have https://answers.launchpad.net/schooltool/+question/45593
[16:56] <ignas> but I think launchpad people are more qualified to answer it...
[16:57] <andrea-bs> ignas: go to https://answers.launchpad.net/schooltool/+question/45593/+edit and change the "Project" field
[16:57] <intellectronica> ignas: yes, this question would be more appropriate in https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar
[16:58] <ignas> andrea-bs, intellectronica: thanks
[17:06] <\sh> hmm...
[17:06] <\sh> I just approved an app via api on stable launchpad...but logging in via credentials is not possible...now I wonder why
[17:08] <thekorn> this happens for me sometimes too,
[17:08] <thekorn> do you get an httperror or something
[17:08] <\sh> thekorn: 401 Unauthorized
[17:09] <\sh> the same credentials file on edge works flawlessly
[17:09] <thekorn> oh on stable
[17:10] <thekorn> is it even possible to use stable?
[17:10] <\sh> thekorn: that I don't know..I can see my auth tokens on stable and on edge...
[17:40] <infinito> is there any place where i can find some docs about ubuntu's launchpad-integration libs??
[17:41] <beuno> infinito, https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib
[17:41] <infinito> beuno: thanks!
[17:41] <beuno> :)
[17:42] <infinito> is it possible to use it to search for packages inside ubuntu??
[17:42] <infinito> or is it just for bugs?
[17:43] <beuno> I'm not sure how much of that is done in the API
[17:43] <beuno> bigjools?
[17:44] <bigjools> there's no Soyuz API yet
[17:44] <beuno> infinito, that's a
[17:44] <beuno> "not yet"
[17:50] <infinito> hummm so no way to access...
[17:50] <beuno> no, but there will be eventually
[17:50] <\sh> at least...leonov works now with launchpadlib (at least on edge) now for the GUI parts (http://leonov.tv/content/leonov-launchpadlib-your-data-thats-me <- a first glance of what that can be)
[17:52] <beuno> \sh, oh, very cool!
[17:52] <beuno> congrats, it's looking good
[17:54] <bigjools> beuno: right sorry, I was on a call
[17:54] <\sh> beuno: well, it needs more, but that's just UI work and some bits of code writing ,)
[17:55] <beuno> bigjools, sorry for what?  we got our answer, so thanks!  :)
[17:56] <bigjools> beuno: for being terse :)
[17:56] <beuno> \sh, if you'd like some UI tips, I'll grab a branch and take it for a spin
[17:56] <beuno> bigjools, no worries  :)
[17:57] <\sh> beuno: kde4 style and later on gtk/gnome style :) would be a cool idea...I'm a donkey regarding UI :)
[17:59] <beuno> \sh, will give it a go then!
[18:00] <\sh> beuno: just wait for a "go"...I need to push some stuff still to lp:leonov/leonov-kde (this is my kde branch)
[18:00] <beuno> \sh, sure. Just poke when you're ready
[19:27] <kiko> thekorn, \sh: the API only works on edge; ask leonardr or flacoste for details.
[19:27] <\sh> kiko: just found out :
[19:27] <\sh> )
[19:27] <\sh> thekorn: we need to change py-lp-bugs...edge support is broken ;)
[19:27] <\sh> cu tomorrow
[19:27] <flacoste> \sh: you should
[19:27] <flacoste> test on staging first anywya :-)
[19:28] <leonardr> kiko, flacoste: what? is this a bug?
[19:28] <thekorn> but staging is terribly slow these days
[19:29] <kiko> thekorn, shouldn't be at least from my usage
[19:29] <flacoste> leonardr: no, it's not
[19:29] <leonardr> oh, kiko's saying that it only works on edge *and staging*
[19:30] <leonardr> and not on produciton
[19:30] <leonardr> speaking of which i should publish that blog entry
[19:30] <thekorn> one other think: is it possible to not sync the oauth token of edge and staging?
[19:30] <thekorn> problem with testing on staging is: yyou have to regenerate your oauth tokens each day
[19:31] <salgado> thekorn, but you could use a token from edge on staging, as long as it was authorized at least one day ago
[19:32] <thekorn> oh, sounds like a good idea