[00:08] <maco> cjwatson: thanks.  i must look into this dlocate thing
[00:09] <pochu> good night folks
[00:09] <cjwatson> maco: well, dlocate only helps because I already have it installed
[00:10] <cjwatson> maco: to find files in packages you don't have installed, use http://packages.ubuntu.com/
[00:10] <murdok> night pochu
[00:10] <murdok> :D
[00:10] <murdok> anyone know where can I find all these devices that are supported by the wl driver?
[00:11] <alex-weej> anyone know if these 2 minor changes to HAL and Linux could get picked up for Intrepid to fix backlight on MacBook Pros? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hal/+bug/226894
[00:12] <cjwatson> murdok: well, I've got one, dunno if that helps you
[00:12] <murdok> cjwatson, let's see:p where did you get it?
[00:13] <cjwatson> murdok: it came with my Dell Latitude D830
[00:13] <murdok> oh you mean a device or a list of devices?
[00:13] <cjwatson> a device
[00:13] <cjwatson> your question was unclear
[00:13] <murdok> i mean a list of those devices supported by wl
[00:14] <cjwatson> that would be in the kernel source?
[00:14] <murdok> yes i'll see, I expected a sourceforge page for the driver or so
[00:14] <cjwatson> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-intrepid-lrm.git;a=blob;f=ubuntu-restricted/broadcom/src/wl/sys/wl_linux.c;h=38ce6150642fcfd8a7ad34f3b26df9bd050361a4;hb=HEAD -> search for MODULE_DEVICE_TABLE and go up a bit
[00:15] <Riddell> kirkland: upgrade fails with bug 271952
[00:16]  * kirkland checking
[00:16] <murdok> Yes, more or less..
[00:16] <kirkland> Riddell: ah, that's been fixes with an ln -sf
[00:17] <kirkland> Riddell: ah, that's been fixed with an ln -sf
[00:18] <kirkland> Riddell: fixed in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/landscape-client/1.0.18-0ubuntu4
[00:19] <Riddell> kirkland: hmm, I had the error happen this afternoon
[00:19] <kirkland> Riddell: see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/landscape-client/1.0.18-0ubuntu4,
[00:19] <kirkland>     * Published 1 hour ago
[00:19] <Riddell> oh, I see freeze getting in the way
[00:19] <TheMuso> alex-weej: There is actually a kernel module that takes care of MacBook Pro backlights for 2.1, 3.1, and 4,1 revisions. That hal fdi file for the mbp needs to rewritten to take this into consideration.
[00:19] <Riddell> thanks kirkland
[00:19] <kirkland> Riddell: no prob ;-)
[00:20] <slangasek> not freeze
[00:20] <alex-weej> TheMuso: no, it doesn't need to be rewritten at all. it provides a generic interface and it's picked up by HAL's regular backlight magic.
[00:20] <alex-weej> we just need to carry the new version from upstream
[00:20] <TheMuso> alex-weej: That doesn't make sense. On my 4.1 generation, with the backlight module loaded, I need do nothing else. THis is because the hal fdi file responsible doesn't reference the 4.1 series.
[00:20] <alex-weej> that one file is all that needs to change to stop the 3.1-and-newer machines from using the fake device
[00:21] <TheMuso> alex-weej: Is the new file in upstrea mgit already?
[00:21] <TheMuso> or whatever vcs is used?
[00:21] <alex-weej> TheMuso: i linked it in the report. took me a lot of time to track it down too :P
[00:21] <TheMuso> alex-weej: oh ok, I'll take a peak.
[00:21] <alex-weej> TheMuso: FYI, 2.1 uses ATI, 3.1 uses NV
[00:22] <alex-weej> TheMuso: the new FDI has the logic perfect
[00:22] <TheMuso> alex-weej: Ok will take a look.
[00:22] <superm1> murdok, i've got a forum post that's attempting to aggregate pci ids into marketing names for it
[00:23] <superm1> murdok, FYI, the driver in intrepid and hardy-proposed supports far more than the original driver
[00:23] <murdok> hey superm1: which original driver do you mean?
[00:23] <superm1> murdok, the original one was included back around 2.6.24-17 or so
[00:24] <superm1> and the same one that is in -19
[00:24] <murdok> bc43 or so
[00:24] <superm1> the newer versions of it are in -20 and -21
[00:24] <superm1> 'wl'
[00:24] <murdok> i think
[00:24] <TheMuso> alex-weej: Ok I'll test it locally to make sure nothing breaks for me here. It works for you I presume?
[00:24] <murdok> superm1, please give me the url of that thread
[00:24] <superm1> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=880218
[00:24] <alex-weej> TheMuso: yes fine on my 3.1
[00:24] <murdok> i'll add mine
[00:24] <superm1> murdok, okay great thanks
[00:25] <alex-weej> TheMuso: although the sensors and keyboard backlights are still dead, but that's for another day
[00:25] <superm1> i've got to scan through it again and update the first post again still, it's been a bit since i have
[00:25] <murdok> oh you are Mario Limoncello, I wrote you yesterday
[00:25] <murdok> :)
[00:25] <superm1> yeah :)
[00:25] <TheMuso> alex-weej: Part of that is that the aplesmc driver si probably not loaded. If its loaded, then all hal needs is an addon written to work with them.
[00:26] <alex-weej> TheMuso: does it work for you on your 4.1?
[00:26] <murdok> what is the usual name for the interface with wl, ethX ??
[00:26] <TheMuso> alex-weej: No, but I can manually tweak things like keyboard backlight through sysfs when applesmc is loaded.
[00:26] <superm1> murdok, it will come up as ethX yeah
[00:27] <murdok> superm1, okay, hehe it was wierd, i had always thought that ethX was reserved for ethernet cable
[00:28] <TheMuso> alex-weej: However I don't like running applesmc because it constantly polls, using too much battery. I've found patches that make it use interrupts, but I haven't yet sat down to apply them to see fi they make a difference.
[00:30] <TheMuso> alex-weej: Yeah thats what I was thinking needed changing. I'll test locally, and if it works for me, I'll see about getting it into hal after the freeze lifts.
[00:32] <alex-weej> TheMuso: ok we need the kernel fix too otherwise it's still out of the reach of mortals
[00:33] <TheMuso> alex-weej: Ok I'll have a look at that also.
[00:33] <alex-weej> it's a macro change in the driver -- the existing mod aliases were failing
[00:35] <TheMuso> alex-weej: Explains why I have to load the module manually. I guess the next thing to determine is whether that patch is in a git tree somewhere...
[00:35] <alex-weej> TheMuso: yes it is, that's what that mail is for... let's see if i can find the actual commit
[00:36] <TheMuso> The only annoying thing is that one can't control the brightness at the gdm screen for example.
[00:37] <murdok> superm1, my device is already reported, which is bcm4328 but my laptop is not the same. Shall I report it?
[00:38] <murdok> superm1, it's strange.. I have added ssb to blacklist but ssb continues being loaded on boot
[00:38] <murdok> :?
[00:39] <TheMuso> superm1: Just wondering whether you have AirPort in that list? As the newer MacBook Pros use BCM4328.
[00:39] <murdok> TheMuso, which revision? :p mine is 03
[00:39] <TheMuso> murdok: 05.
[00:40] <alex-weej> TheMuso: blame g-p-m architecture
[00:40] <alex-weej> TheMuso: IMO it should be a systemwide service
[00:41] <alex-weej> but the wind is blowing the other way, people want per-user X and everything
[00:41] <TheMuso> alex-weej: I agree with that.
[00:41] <murdok> TheMuso, someone has already reported that
[00:41] <TheMuso> murdok: Right, thanks.
[00:41] <jdong> why is brightness tied with X to begin with? is it not technically possible to map the brightness keys at a lower level?
[00:41] <alex-weej> their "solution" is to add things like g-p-m and a pulseaudio daemon to the GDM environment
[00:41] <jdong> same with the audio volume keys.
[00:41] <alex-weej> jdong: sure it is. pommed.
[00:41] <jdong> why don't we use that?
[00:41] <alex-weej> pommed is entirely independent of X
[00:41] <alex-weej> because it only works for apple laptops
[00:42] <TheMuso> alex-weej: Yeah that fdi works for me.
[00:42] <alex-weej> and it's too much of a variation from upstreams will
[00:42] <jdong> alex-weej: mmm, IMO still a weak reason not to give that feature to apple laptop users in an easy manner :-/
[00:42] <alex-weej> jdong: practically, the hotkeys stopped working in it since a recent X change
[00:42] <jdong> (livecd space issues, I know...)
[00:42] <alex-weej> so it ONLY works outside of X now
[00:42] <alex-weej> :P
[00:42] <jdong> alex-weej: yay.
[00:42] <TheMuso> jdong: Pommed woudl also now have to be tweaked to work with the newer backlight module.
[00:43] <alex-weej> TheMuso: negative
[00:43] <alex-weej> Pommed had support for the NVidia chip a long time ago
[00:43] <alex-weej> it does it all in userspace
[00:43] <jdong> are other backlights tied to X also?
[00:43] <alex-weej> none are really tied to X
[00:43] <TheMuso> alex-weej: Yes but what I mean is instead of pommed having its own code, it should just use sysfs and use the kernel module instead.
[00:44] <jdong> well I guess non-X usage is a fringe case in this matter and not worth too much pondering.
[00:44] <alex-weej> jdong: it goes like this: hardware > linux > hal > g-p-m
[00:44] <alex-weej> g-p-m is, unfortunately, a session service
[00:44] <alex-weej> you can control HAL via other means if you wish
[00:44] <jdong> spawning g-p-m's services at GDM would be nice though.
[00:44] <alex-weej> jdong: it's on the radar AFAIK
[00:44] <jdong> another related wishlist, users sharing battery calibration.
[00:44] <alex-weej> TheMuso: i'm not sure to be honest. what benefits are there to having it in kernelspace?
[00:45] <TheMuso> alex-weej: Well for one, so that hal controls the backlight when in GNOME which is what happens now when you are logged in.
[00:45] <TheMuso> And so that gpm can control it when you are on and off battery.
[00:45] <alex-weej> as it stands right now, non-pommed consumers of the code have made a bit of a mess. the ATI stuff is in userspace, wrapped up inside the hal addon, whereas the NV stuff is in a kernelspace module that doesn't autoload :P
[00:46] <alex-weej> TheMuso: i think you misunderstand - pommed is a system service with the code to control the hardware in userspace
[00:46] <TheMuso> alex-weej: I understand entirely.
[00:46] <alex-weej> userspace doesn't mean "a user's session"
[00:46] <alex-weej> pommed also listens for power events too, independently of HAL
[00:46] <alex-weej> it has no dependency on HAL
[00:47] <alex-weej> as far as the authors are concerned, it IS the HAL for apple laptops
[00:47] <alex-weej> with its own dbus interface and everything
[00:47] <TheMuso> Won't pommed conflict with hal when you are logged in?
[00:47] <alex-weej> yes.
[00:47] <alex-weej> well, no.
[00:47] <alex-weej> it conflicts with g-p-m
[00:47] <alex-weej> HAL doesn't do anything on its own, it's just another interface to the same hardware.
[00:48] <alex-weej> G-P-M receives the key events inside your X session
[00:48] <alex-weej> and turns those into HAL messages
[00:48] <TheMuso> alex-weej: Right, but is the conflicting with gpm a possible problem area?
[00:48] <alex-weej> Pommed receives the same key events via linux/input.h (i.e. NOT X)
[00:48] <alex-weej> and turns those into PCI magic
[00:48] <alex-weej> which i don't understand
[00:48] <alex-weej> :P
[00:49] <alex-weej> TheMuso: it absolutely is when everything is working. the same keypress is handled twice
[00:49] <TheMuso> Right.
[00:49] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: one of the reasons we don't have an ubuntu-dev PPA is that everyone gets spammed on a build failure - hence ppas for large teams don't happen much.
[00:49] <jdong> that's a silly feature too
[00:50] <TheMuso> alex-weej: well if key presses worked outside a user's session, then I'd say put it all in the power manager/hal, but now I am in two minds about it all.
[00:50] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: we could probably get that fixed
[00:50] <TheMuso> alex-weej: It would be interesting to know whether there are other laptops that only handle such stuff in software, and how they behave.
[00:50] <cjwatson> but thanks, a useful point
[00:51] <alex-weej> TheMuso: this is just a decision made by the G-P-M architects. it's not something we are really empowered to change.
[00:51] <alex-weej> exactly the same nonsense is happening with pulseaudio which is why audio STILL doesn't work with GDM.
[00:52] <TheMuso> Audio does work with gdm, it uses alsa.
[00:52] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: I live in hope, but am aware of how long things usually take to fix.
[00:52] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: the other worry would be that users regard it as "official", due to the name of the ppa, and report bugs for it.
[00:52] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: do you know if there's a bug about this? I couldn't find one
[00:52] <Hobbsee> wgrant: have you seen one?
[00:53] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: that would be great, since by definition (in my proposal) everything there is due to go into the main archive, just can't yet due to timing
[00:53] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: unsure, wgrant should know.  I try to avoid their bugtracker.
[00:53] <cjwatson> the earlier the reports, the better
[00:53]  * wgrant appears.
[00:53] <alex-weej> TheMuso: only thanks to a fallback
[00:53] <wgrant> What are we talking about?
[00:53] <Hobbsee> ah, right, i've not seen the mail yet :)
[00:53] <Hobbsee> wgrant: launcphad spamming everyone when using a PPA, and the build fails - is there a bug for it yet?
[00:53] <TheMuso> alex-weej: What fallback are you referring to?
[00:53] <wgrant> Hobbsee: IIRC it's a feature.
[00:53] <TheMuso> alex-weej: And, its not safe to run pulseaudio system wide.
[00:53] <wgrant> There might have been a bug on it at some point.
[00:53] <wgrant> Let me check.
[00:54] <Hobbsee> wgrant: FSVO "feature".
[00:54] <alex-weej> TheMuso: the default ALSA PCM is a pulseaudio PCM. a change went in a few months back to make it so that if the PA daemon isn't running it just uses the hardware directly.
[00:54] <alex-weej> robust, but ugly to rely on
[00:54] <Hobbsee> slangasek: congratulations!
[00:54] <slangasek> Hobbsee: \o/ thanks for rustling up the testers :)
[00:54] <TheMuso> alex-weej: Thats not in Ubuntu. We still use alsa by default.
[00:54] <Hobbsee> slangasek: you're welcome.  Give me more warning next time, please :)
[00:55] <alex-weej> TheMuso: that's pretty silly.
[00:55] <TheMuso> alex-weej: No, its not.
[00:55] <TheMuso> alex-weej: KDE and XFCE do not use pulseaudio.
[00:55] <slangasek> Hobbsee: "beta is October 2" ;)
[00:55] <alex-weej> TheMuso: neither does GNOME
[00:55] <cjwatson> wgrant: I assume it's part of the general conflict between the desire to notify a team of things and the desire to only have some members of a team notified. This crops up all over Launchpad.
[00:55] <TheMuso> alex-weej: Not upstream they don't afaik.
[00:55] <alex-weej> TheMuso: i'm intrigued... why is pulseaudio unsafe to run systemwide?
[00:55] <Hobbsee> slangasek: heh, right.  I meant for when you had images you thought worked :P
[00:56] <slangasek> Hobbsee: ok, noted. :)
[00:56] <alex-weej> i believe there are current issues with the design allowing users to "listen" to other users
[00:56] <TheMuso> alex-weej: The author of pulseaudio only meant pulseaudio to be used system wide for embedded devices/special application devices.
[00:56] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Can't find the bug.
[00:56] <alex-weej> but that's not something that can't be alleviated with proper policy
[00:56] <alex-weej> TheMuso: again, an architects decision.
[00:56] <wgrant> cjwatson: The lack of configurability on Launchpad is somewhat concerning.
[00:56] <Hobbsee> wgrant: darn.  cjwatson, then apparently there is no bug.
[00:56] <TheMuso> He does not recommend it be run system wide of standard use.
[00:57] <alex-weej> one which i disagree with. it means i still can't have my logout sound as usplash is shutting down
[00:57] <TheMuso> alex-weej: That is known, and if 0.9.11/0.9.12 of pulse were ready, that version would have a consolekit module to help take care of that.
[00:57] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: OK, thanks, I've made a note to file one when I'm a bit more awake
[00:58] <TheMuso> ready == stable enough, and no major user regressions.
[00:58] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: cool, OK.
[00:58] <alex-weej> TheMuso: aside -- are we going to have ANOTHER release with PulseAudio shipped but not the default PCM?
[00:58] <alex-weej> i thought we had learnt that lesson from Hardy
[00:59] <alex-weej> but if we still aren't shipping the change by Alpha 6...
[00:59] <slangasek> what do you mean, "not the default"?
[00:59] <TheMuso> alex-weej: It just so happens that I am working on a resolution to the pulse by default issue.
[01:00] <alex-weej> does it involve DMix?
[01:00] <TheMuso> alex-weej: When pulse is running, alsa apps will use it, but if its not running, alsa will be used.
[01:00] <alex-weej> TheMuso: what, you mean like with the pulse PCM as it is now?
[01:00] <alex-weej> because that's exactly what it does given the aforementioned fallback
[01:01] <TheMuso> alex-weej: No dmix will not be used.
[01:01] <alex-weej> good :)
[01:02] <TheMuso> alex-weej: And there is no fallback. If you happen to have pulse as your default alsa device and pulse is not running, it won't work.
[01:02] <TheMuso> Unless you are using pulse => 0.9.11, which is supposed to start if required.
[01:09] <TheMuso> alex-weej: THere is a chance that the backlight patch may be in the next RC.
[01:09] <TheMuso> Or 2.6.27 final.
[01:10] <alex-weej> i wasn't able to track down which tree that even meant. i don't understand LKML as much as I thought I did.
[01:10] <alex-weej> mjg59 said it might be in .28
[01:10] <alex-weej> which didn't give me the best of hope for it being in .27
[01:11] <TheMuso> Right.
[01:13] <alex-weej> TheMuso: with applesmc loaded, looks like i get a myriad of sensors. that's good!
[01:13] <alex-weej> so many, in fact, that it's destroyed my panel.
[01:13] <TheMuso> alex-weej: Yes but you will notice that if you are on battery, it will eat battery very quickly, as well as filling up dmesg.
[01:14] <TheMuso> As its always polling the hardware for the laptop's position, etc.
[01:15] <alex-weej> TheMuso: "position"? as in accelerometer readings?
[01:15] <TheMuso> alex-weej: yes.
[01:15] <alex-weej> insane. ok had better unload. none of these sensors have descriptions anyway :(
[01:16] <alex-weej> you say you saw an interrupts-based branch?
[01:16] <TheMuso> I've found patches to make that use interrupts, as well as park the hd heads when the laptop is moved suddenly. I need to ask the author whether they will be in a kernel any time soon, and if they are in a git tree somewhere.
[01:16] <alex-weej> why is this all in one module?
[01:16] <alex-weej> i just want keyboard backlights :(
[01:16] <TheMuso> I don't know.
[01:17] <TheMuso> Probably because its all to do with apple sensing hardware.
[01:17] <alex-weej> do you know what the SMC stands for?
[01:18] <jdong> hmm where I worked this summer it stood for serious machine carnage....
[01:19] <TheMuso> lol
[01:19] <TheMuso> alex-weej: No clue.
[01:20] <jdong> it's one of those "what happens when you wrongly assume zero-centered velocity commands on a 45-ton armored vehicle controller" puzzles
[01:20] <jdong> I think that was the end of indoor testing though.
[01:22] <slangasek> are we talking about a kernel module?
[01:23] <slangasek> (if so, I have a better question: why does it poll? :)
[01:26] <NCommander> jdong, launchpad staff are now reviewing the spam to the tracker and are working to despam it
[01:31] <TheMuso> slangasek: Yes, and I guess the author originally wanted to make sure it worked. As I said, there are patches to make it use interrupts floating around.
[01:40] <maco> slangasek: you around?
[01:40] <slangasek> maco: yep
[01:41] <maco> slangasek: i changed update-manager's string to match update-notifier's for the bug you filed.  is that ok or would the opposite direction be better?
[01:41] <slangasek> maco: I expect the opposite direction would be what's intended
[01:41] <maco> slangasek: ok
[04:21] <calc> so i'm not headed back tomorrow after all, i will be headed back saturday, i managed to get UPS to put a hold on a package due tomorrow
[04:37] <DBO> hey all.  Is it possible to know if bug #265119 is going to see action before releasE?
[05:45] <RAOF> bryce, tjaalton: re bug #265119 - is there a special X process for package sponsorship, or does it follow the standard main sponsorship process.  There's a debdiff on that bug applying upstream's patch.
[06:09] <bryce> RAOF, no special process, just ping me (or timo) if it seems to be taking us a while to get to it
[06:10] <RAOF> Ok.  I'll subscribe u-m-s and throw it on the queue.
[06:13] <bryce> cool.  If it's still open tomorrow morning I'll do it then
[06:17] <RAOF> Ah.  So there's no special process, you're just really fast :)
[06:40] <dholbach> good morning
[06:41] <Hobbsee> afternoon dholbach!
[06:41] <dholbach> hi Hobbsee
[08:07] <user_> how can I get an application ported over to ubuntu?
[08:11] <user_> what's the best way to help with ubuntu? I was thinking about going through the bugs and submitting patches for fixes
[08:11] <user_> is that the general idea?
[08:12] <wgrant> That's always good.
[08:12] <wgrant> Particularly at this stage of the release cycle.
[08:12] <user_> okay.  sounds good.
[08:12] <dholbach> user_: sounds like a good idea - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted links to all important docs on the wiki
[08:12] <user_> thanks
[08:12] <dholbach> (Packaging Guide, how to get patches included in Ubuntu, lists of stuff that needs work, etc :-))
[08:22] <slytherin> crimsun: I saw that you marked bug #64792 as fix released. Can you please tell me where are the files available or which package was synced?
[08:28] <\sh> asac: bug #192888 <- I don't think that has something to do with PA or ia32-libs now...could it be, that it's something else we are running in...
[08:35] <davmor2> Should the encrypted folder ask for a password before being accessible?
[08:38] <cjwatson> davmor2: no, it's handled by single-sign-on using your user password
[08:39] <cjwatson> davmor2: your user password is used to encrypt the password for the encrypted directory itself
[08:39] <davmor2> cjwatson: right Okay just thought I'd check it wasn't a bug :)
[09:09] <asac> \sh: hard to say for sure.
[09:11] <\sh> asac: and I can't reproduce it now
[09:13] <asac> \sh: maybe you run a new flash 10 version than the one we have multiverse atm?
[09:13] <asac> s/new/more recent/
[09:14]  * torkel still can't use flash because of npviewer.bin crashes everytime
[09:15] <\sh> asac: nope
[09:27] <asac> \sh: you are on amd or 32-bit?
[09:27] <\sh> asac: 64bit
[09:43] <mvo> hey seb128!
[09:43] <seb128> hello mvo
[09:49] <seb128> mvo: btw the compiz update works correctly, it fixes the white screen issue when starting an another session
[09:52] <mvo> seb128: excellent, thanks for testing it
[10:05] <mvo> does anyone has a idea what "godkjennelsen mislyktes" (that comes from PAM) means? (bug #271441)
[10:13] <persia> mvo: Google says "approval failed".  If nobody has a better answer, grepping the .po files might help.
[10:13] <mvo> persia: thanks, that makes perfect sense in this context
[10:14]  * mvo should have tried google first
[10:14] <persia> The tricky part is determining it is Norwegian.  After than, the language tools aren't so bad for one or two word phrases.
[10:19] <Mithrandir> "godkjennelsen mislyktes" is probably authorisation failed in the context of PAM
[10:24] <mvo> Mithrandir: thanks, that fits with the bug, adduser fails when trying to add the pulseaudio daemon
[10:36] <frafu> Hello, could anybody please tell me who created the possibility to stop the fsck at startup with the esc-key? I would like to contact him in order to ask whether he could for accessibility reasons enhance that function and also listen for mouse button clicks? Thanks in advance for any help in finding the appropriate contact person.
[10:45] <cjwatson> frafu: that was pitti. However usplash doesn't have any mouse support at the moment so that might not be all that straightforward
[10:50] <frafu> cjwatson: Thanks for your reply. You confirmed my fear about the mouse support. Do you know where I can find pitti's contact information?
[10:53] <cjwatson> frafu: https://launchpad.net/~pitti
[10:53] <frafu> cjwatson: I found him on the Ubuntu wiki.
[10:53] <frafu> cjwatson: thanks
[10:53] <cjwatson> normally he's around here, but he's at a conference at the moment
[10:54] <frafu> cjwatson: ok
[11:25] <mvo> davmor2: hello! just a quick question on #261423 - is this still a issue? I was not able to reproduce that with the alpha-6 livecd
[11:25] <davmor2> mvo 2 ticks
[11:26] <mvo> davmor2: no problem :)
[11:27] <davmor2> mvo: yes it is try typing in empathy
[11:28] <davmor2> mvo: or telepathy
[11:29] <davmor2> mvo: you still there?
[11:30] <mvo> davmor2: yes, I was just testing it
[11:30] <mvo> davmor2: on the livecd the reason might be that we don't have universe enabled there
[11:31] <mvo> davmor2: on the installed system it probably takes until the first apt-get update (done nightly) until those show up. does that make sense or do you see it for other packages too?
[11:31] <davmor2> mvo: hang on then I'll do apt get update
[11:32] <davmor2> mvo: same thing is there something that update xapain?
[11:33] <davmor2> mvo: try gedit
[11:34] <davmor2> that should be in regardless right?
[11:34] <mvo> yes
[11:35] <davmor2> mvo: ged is enough for everything to vanish
[11:37] <mvo> davmor2: thanks, I boot a fresh version of the CD to test that
[11:38] <davmor2> mvo: this is on an installed system after an apt-get update
[11:39] <mvo> davmor2: I see here that it does not do partial searches, i.e. it does not find gedit when ged is searched, but it does find it (for me) when gedit is fully written. I remember that I worked on the code that would fix that, I wonder if its still buggy
[11:40] <davmor2> mvo: confirmed
[11:40] <mvo> davmor2: thanks a lot!
[11:41] <davmor2> mvo: how does G-A-install get roung it?
[11:41] <davmor2> s/roung/round
[11:41] <mvo> davmor2: g-a-i does currently not use xapian, the data it searches is a magnitude smaller (~2000 package vs. 20.000 pkgs in synaptic)
[11:42] <davmor2> mvo: ah okay I wondered if it was using similar code to do the searching :)
[11:42] <mvo> but xapian in g-a-i would be good, that would make it much snappier (the search)
[11:45] <davmor2> mvo: I've update the bug to add the works with full name
[11:47] <norsetto> asac, seb128: I uploaded a new version of devhelp 0.20 to bug 250290 that includes today's change from 0.19.1-6
[11:49] <seb128> norsetto: good, I'll have a look after lunch!
[11:50] <norsetto> seb128: thx, bon appetit
[11:50] <seb128> thanks, you too if you didn't have lunch yet ;-)
[11:51] <norsetto> seb128: now I understand why my stomach was growling!
[11:56] <terminator_> tseliot, Are the Nvidia drivers working yet for Legacy cards.  I am running a GeForce FX5200
[11:57] <tseliot> terminator_: no, not yet
[11:58] <terminator_> Just wondering,  I guess I'll just have to wait.
[12:55] <Cheery> hi
[12:56] <Cheery> how could I get the latest bleeding edge ubuntu to my machine?
[12:56] <Cheery> I think the current stable is somewhat broken with pulseaudio and bunch of other new additions.
[12:56]  * ogra points Cheery to #ubuntu+1
[12:57] <Cheery> I sort of like improvement, but don't you fear you will introduce bunch of legacy behind you and eventually get dragged down by it?
[13:08] <cjwatson> Cheery: we're often looking to clear stuff out as well as introducing new features
[13:08] <cjwatson> Cheery: there's little alternative though; we can't remain static forever :-)
[13:08] <Cheery> that's good to hear
[13:08] <cjwatson> most of our conferences include some kind of reducing-duplication session
[13:13] <Cheery> hm. have had one thing in mind for a while: I tend to do some software occassionally, how to get them into ubuntu repositories?
[13:13] <Cheery> and what do you require it to contain inside?
[13:15] <cjwatson> Cheery: #ubuntu-motu is usually happy to help out with that sort of thing
[13:15] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO/NewSoftware
[13:15] <liw> Cheery, the best thing for you to do is to a) make a clean upstream release, with a working build system using standard parts and then b) what cjwatson said
[13:16] <cjwatson> right, anything that's built in a standard way will probably not be hugely difficult; autotools for C programs, ExtUtils::MakeMaker or similar for perl, distutils for python, etc.
[13:17] <liw> the other thing is then to work with whoever is creating the package, and be responsive to suggestions, patches, and bug reports
[13:17] <cjwatson> pretty much anything can be packaged with a smart enough packager, though, so that's not mandatory; underlying quality (e.g. competently written C code written with an eye to avoiding standard security vulnerabilities) is more important than the build system
[13:17] <Cheery> also would like to know: has there been monetary interest to port some apps get some new apps into ubuntu, and do you know anything about it?
[13:18] <cjwatson> some companies work with Canonical's ISV team to get applications into our partner repository
[13:18] <cjwatson> there have been some contracts that have involved getting packages into Ubuntu, yes, although for obvious reasons I can't discuss the details; they still have to meet general quality requirements
[13:20] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages too
[13:21] <Cheery> hm. I have yet one question, how big the ubuntu community is?
[13:22] <Hobbsee> very
[13:22] <Cheery> is it already counted in millions? I can see the whole effort put into ubuntu has grown huge.
[13:23] <cjwatson> millions of users, but I think millions that you'd count as part of the community is probably an exaggeration. Certainly thousands though.
[13:23] <cjwatson> we really have no easy way to count, which is a good place to be in IMO :)
[13:25] <Cheery> it's hard to count that kind of things anyway. So you think there's thousands of devs already.
[13:26] <cjwatson> Cheery: you said community, not developers
[13:26] <Cheery> oh, so you included people who have committed something to ubuntu?
[13:27] <cjwatson> no, community to us means documentation, advocacy, translation, bug triage, ...
[13:27] <cjwatson> as well as development
[13:27] <Cheery> ah. so there's much less devs than that, but still lot of people
[13:28] <cjwatson> there are 110 people with direct upload access to Ubuntu, but of course there are a lot more who contribute smaller units of code, not to mention all the upstream developers who don't consider themselves part of Ubuntu but who still write the vast majority of code we use
[13:30] <Cheery> hmm. perhaps I will look into it at one point and contribute something next month or so. Fix some bugs etc.
[13:32] <Cheery> now I go though, I'm not fond of staying too long on huge channels
[13:32] <Cheery> cya
[14:23] <mvo> davmor2: the search bug should be fixed in bzr, thanks again for bringing it up
[14:24] <davmor2> mvo: no probs :)
[14:33] <IdleOne> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/latest_ideas/
[14:36] <tjaalton> "gnome panel widow list"
[14:36] <tjaalton> I like that one
[14:37] <torkel> tjaalton: an applet for wife murders? :-)
[14:37] <wgrant> "Recover OpenPGP Key from Launchpad"
[14:37] <wgrant> Somebody seems to be missing the point of OpenPGP keys.
[14:38] <wgrant> How does one gain moderator rights to destory such stupidity?
[14:40] <tjaalton> torkel: "check.." ;)
[15:19] <ldp> hello
[15:29] <stefanlsd> Why dont all fields have place for a comment on - http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/bugs/rcbugs/
[15:30] <james_w> stefanlsd: there is only one comment field per package
[15:32] <stefanlsd> james_w: im looking next to wordpress - and i dont see a comment line...
[15:33] <james_w> stefanlsd: it's against 497216, which is a different severity and so in a different place
[15:35] <stefanlsd> james_w: aah ok. thanks. i see it
[16:18] <Adri2000> slangasek: do you still have my vsftpd FFe request on your radar?
[17:20] <mathiaz> radix: I don't see the smart cronjob implemented in landscape-client 1.0.21
[18:46] <slangasek> Adri2000: yes, it's second on my list now
[19:35] <youareno6> For an AMD64 system, how can I get the 32-bit version of libpcre.so.3?
[19:36] <youareno6> It was not installed with the rest of the lib32 files
[20:36] <stgraber> bryce: hey, how am I supposed to make X+hal detect and configure an elotouch serial touchscreen (xserver-xorg-input-elographics) ?
[20:41] <superm1> stgraber, you'll need to have an FDI file that matches it
[20:41] <superm1> stgraber, at this point the easiest way is to look at lshal output, and find the keys that match your event file
[20:41] <superm1> stgraber, and then you'll need to craft the FDI file based on the vendor/product/capabilities/etc
[20:44] <stgraber> hmm, let's hope I can get something unique for a serial device, I have some doubts about that
[20:45] <bryce> stgraber: I wrote up some hints for customizing hal files at wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config
[20:46] <stgraber> yeah, though I'm not sure I can detect my touchscreen at all
[20:47] <stgraber> it's not like if serial devices send a lot of attributes :)
[21:46] <_MMA_> Can any one tell me if aptitude is in the -desktop seed?
[21:47] <cjwatson> no, it's in standard
[21:47] <cjwatson> $ apt-cache show aptitude | grep ^Task:
[21:47] <cjwatson> Task: standard
[21:49] <_MMA_> Noted.
[21:50] <_MMA_> Hmm... I wonder why Studio isn't pulling it. (I only know 2nd hand) I am doing another VM install now.
[21:52] <_MMA_> cjwatson: Nevermind. "/pool/main/a/aptitude/aptitude_0.4.11.3-1ubuntu3_i386.deb" from our list.
[22:03] <mathiaz> radix: so why does landscape-config need to start landscape-client ?
[22:03] <mathiaz> kirkland: do you use bzr-builddeb for update-motd ?
[22:04] <kirkland> mathiaz: i've never heard of bzr-builddeb ....
[22:04] <kirkland> mathiaz: does it do magic for me?
[22:04] <mathiaz> kirkland: bzr bd -> build a deb package directly from the bzr branch
[22:04] <radix> mathiaz: because landscape-client does the registration
[22:04] <kirkland> mathiaz: nice
[22:05] <mathiaz> radix: heh - I though landscape-config did the registration process.
[22:05] <radix> mathiaz: landscape-config requests it via DBUS
[22:05] <kirkland> mathiaz: i just pushed a set of commits to https://code.launchpad.net/~kirkland/update-motd/main
[22:05] <radix> and landscape-client actually does the HTTP communication, etc
[22:05] <kirkland> mathiaz: with each of the changes from 1.1 - 1.6 as a separate commit
[22:05] <kirkland> mathiaz: for history's sake ;-)
[22:05] <mathiaz> kirkland: great.
[22:06] <kirkland> mathiaz: gimme a few minutes to apply those other changes, and the license change, build, and test it
[22:06] <mathiaz> kirkland: have a look at the bzr-builddeb documentation
[22:06] <kirkland> will do
[22:07] <mathiaz> radix: ha - ok.
[22:13] <psyke83> asac: I sent you a mail anyway, but just to let you know: I opened bug #272286 re: the nspluginwrapper problem
[22:18] <kirkland> mathiaz: okay, so I should remove debian/copyright altogether then?
[22:19] <mathiaz> kirkland: no no. That file has to be ther.
[22:19] <mathiaz> kirkland: remove the Ubuntu packaging section from the copyright file.
[22:19] <asac> psyke83: looking
[22:19] <asac> darn ... LP is still slow
[22:19] <kirkland> mathiaz: oh
[22:20] <psyke83> asac: yep, that's why it took a while to open the bug
[22:20] <asac> psyke83: we have a branch for nspluginwrapper
[22:20] <asac> its better to request a merge than providing an old-style debdiff ;)
[22:21] <asac> actually i am not for including that patch right now. its certainly an option and i already tested it once
[22:21] <asac> so for release we should definitly take it
[22:21] <asac> i am not sure if for beta
[22:23] <psyke83> asac: if the flashplugin-nonfree package stays at the current version for beta, nspluginwrapper should work ok. It seems the regression with windowless mode occurred with the release candidate of flash (probably some new functions not yet implemented in nspluginwrapper)
[22:23] <asac> psyke83: for me windowless mode in nspluginwrapper has always been quite buggy
[22:23] <asac> well ... since 1.1.0 is in the archive - before there was no such thing
[22:23] <mathiaz> slangasek: in the case of a native package, should the debian/copyright have a section about the packaging licensing ?
[22:23] <psyke83> asac: yes, but there was also a bug in firefox itself, it's only been stable since 3.0.2
[22:24] <psyke83> the firefox bug impacted 32 bit users too (without nspluginwrapper)
[22:31] <mathiaz> radix: is there a way to run the test suite when building the landscape-client package ?
[22:32] <radix> mathiaz: trial -r glib2 landscape
[22:32] <kirkland> mathiaz: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/48411/
[22:32] <radix> mathiaz: though it depends on a DBUS session database to be running
[22:32] <radix> as the landscape-client README file describes
[22:32] <mathiaz> radix: hm - ok.
[22:33] <mathiaz> radix: it would be great if the test suite could be run once the package is build.
[22:34] <mathiaz> kirkland: wfm - you may wanna see what slangasek will say about it.
[22:34] <mathiaz> kirkland: see above.
[22:34] <kirkland> mathiaz: how far above?
[22:34] <mathiaz> kirkland: 10 minutes ago
[22:35] <radix> mathiaz: yeah unfortunately we haven't automated the dbus wrangling in the test suite itself, and it still depends on it already running
[22:35] <radix> we'd like to fix that. do you think it's necessary in the intrepid timeframe?
[22:35] <kirkland> mathiaz: i see your question, but no response from slangasek
[22:35] <mathiaz> radix: I don't think so.
[22:54] <Laney> Gah. No sound any more
[23:06] <mathiaz> radix: I've pushed a bzr branch for landscape-client: lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/landscape-client/ubuntu
[23:06] <mathiaz> radix: that's where the code for the ubuntu archive should be pushed to.
[23:20] <kirkland> Keybuk: udevsettle question for you, if you're around
[23:21] <mathiaz> kirkland: is your update-motd trunk branch up-to-date ?
[23:21] <mathiaz> kirkland: https://code.launchpad.net/~kirkland/update-motd/main
[23:21] <mathiaz> kirkland: and what you want to be sponsored ?
[23:21] <kirkland> mathiaz: yes, rev 8 of lp:update-motd
[23:21] <Keybuk> kirkland: sure, what's up?
[23:22] <kirkland> Keybuk: http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/tmp/cryptmount-message.png
[23:22] <kirkland> Keybuk: cryptroot is calling /sbin/udevsettle
[23:22] <kirkland> Keybuk: not found, presumably not in the initramfs?
[23:22] <Keybuk> yes, well ... :)
[23:22] <Keybuk> it should be /sbin/udevadm settle
[23:22] <cjwatson> on #ubuntu-installer I pointed out that it should probably be udevadm settle now
[23:23] <kirkland> cjwatson: Keybuk: aha!
[23:23] <kirkland> cjwatson: Keybuk: cool, thanks guys, this should be a trivial one then
[23:24] <Keybuk> kirkland: it probably shouldn't call it at all
[23:24] <Keybuk> but since it does, that's a simple fix to have the right path
[23:26] <nxvl> Keybuk: hi! is there any known date when the sposoring should be replied/published?
[23:26] <nxvl> (for UDS)
[23:27] <Keybuk> nxvl: it says there, October 2nd I think
[23:27] <mathiaz> kirkland: hm - are you sure you've done all what you've said in the changelog ?
[23:27] <mathiaz> kirkland: cause prerm is still there
[23:27] <mathiaz> kirkland: the cron file disappeared
[23:27] <kirkland> mathiaz: hmm, let me see
[23:27] <nxvl> Keybuk: there where? i've only jono's post as reference
[23:27] <kirkland> mathiaz: it has been moved to debian/update-motd.cron.d
[23:28] <Keybuk> nxvl: the last page of summit.ubuntu.com when you applied
[23:28] <kirkland> mathiaz: such that dh_installcron will take care of it
[23:28] <mathiaz> kirkland: it's not your branch though.
[23:28] <nxvl> Keybuk: oh, ok, thank you!
[23:28] <kirkland> mathiaz: i must have skipped bzr add
[23:29] <cjwatson> (bzr mv is your friend if you're moving a file)
[23:29] <mathiaz> kirkland: right - bzr move is even better in that case
[23:31] <kirkland> mathiaz: ah, well, i was importing each of the last few revisions
[23:32] <kirkland> mathiaz: by applying the diffs between each deb released
[23:32] <cjwatson> kirkland: if you find you have to do that again, bzr-builddeb has a 'bzr import-dsc' plugin
[23:34] <cjwatson> you just do 'bzr import-dsc --distribution=ubuntu *.dsc' and it gives you a branch
[23:34] <kirkland> cjwatson: wow, that's cool
[23:34] <mathiaz> kirkland: while you're changing the bzr branch, could you setup bzr-builddeb in native mode ?
[23:34] <mathiaz> kirkland: add a file named .bzr-builddeb/default.conf
[23:35] <kirkland> mathiaz: sure... i also wanted to add a VCS thing to the control file too
[23:35] <mathiaz> kirkland: http://paste.ubuntu.com/48424/ <- content of the default.conf file
[23:38] <kirkland> mathiaz: XS-Vcs-Bzr: https://code.launchpad.net/~kirkland/update-motd/main
[23:38] <kirkland> mathiaz: is that correct?
[23:38] <cjwatson> no need for the XS-
[23:38] <cjwatson> that used to be needed, but it was made an official field
[23:38] <kirkland> cjwatson: k
[23:38] <mathiaz> kirkland: hm - I've used lp:~ in landscape-client.
[23:38] <mathiaz> I'm not sure what's the correct usage though.
[23:39] <cjwatson> I recommend Vcs-Bzr: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kirkland/update-motd/main
[23:39] <cjwatson> that way anyone can paste it into a web browser and see the contents of the branch without necessarily having to learn how to use bzr
[23:39] <mathiaz> cjwatson: right - isn't that the meaning of Vcs-Browser ?
[23:39] <cjwatson> more direct than code.launchpad.net
[23:40] <cjwatson> mathiaz: for systems where you have to use a different URL for both, sure; but in bzr's case the same URL can do double duty
[23:40] <kirkland> mathiaz: cjwatson: and all of that is preferred to just "lp:update-motd" ?
[23:40] <cjwatson> kirkland: yes
[23:40] <kirkland> k
[23:40] <mathiaz> cjwatson: I thought that Vcs-Bzr would point to the url that can be used to co the actual branch.
[23:40] <cjwatson> mathiaz: and so it does, in my example.]
[23:40] <cjwatson> mathiaz: feel free to try it ...
[23:40] <kirkland> speaking of, i have a related Launchpad/bzr question....
[23:40]  * mathiaz tries
[23:41] <cjwatson> mathiaz: it won't get you something you can write to if you happen to have permission to write to the branch, that's true
[23:41] <kirkland> i'm co-maintaining ecryptfs now; git.kernel.org is going to continue being the source repo for now, but we're going to move the mailing lists, bugs, etc. from Sourceforge to Launchpad
[23:41] <cjwatson> mathiaz: but we have tools to address that, like debcheckout -a
[23:41] <mathiaz> cjwatson: right.
[23:41] <mathiaz> cjwatson: I'll update the Vcs-Bzr header for landscape-client. I've lp:~... instead of http.
[23:42] <kirkland> we need a place to publish the versioned, released tarballs.  sourceforge just had an FTP site.  i'm using a bzr branch, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kirkland/ecryptfs/release_tarballs/files?sort=filename
[23:42] <cjwatson> mathiaz: for the moment, while lp: is really useful in lots of contexts, I think it's too opaque for the control metadata, and duplicating Vcs-Bzr and Vcs-Browser to provide the paste-into-web-browser feature is a pain
[23:42] <kirkland> cjwatson: does that fly?
[23:42] <cjwatson> kirkland: LP has an upload-your-tarball feature too
[23:43] <kirkland> cjwatson: really?  i swear i looked for just that....
[23:43] <cjwatson> kirkland: you may have to be the project driver
[23:43] <kirkland> cjwatson: i am
[23:43] <cjwatson> ah, you are
[23:43] <cjwatson> kirkland: go to https://launchpad.net/ecryptfs/trunk
[23:43] <cjwatson> kirkland: "Register a release"
[23:44] <kirkland> cjwatson: lookey there....
[23:44] <kirkland> cjwatson: cool, thanks.
[23:44] <cjwatson> kirkland: once you've gone through that, you'll have a "Releases" widget on https://launchpad.net/ecryptfs/trunk
[23:44] <kirkland> cjwatson: nice, i'll play with it
[23:44] <cjwatson> kirkland: pick the release from that, and then "Add download file"
[23:45] <kirkland> cjwatson: cool, thanks.
[23:46] <kirkland> mathiaz: okay, now am I supposed to use something other than debuild to build this?  bzr builddeb or something?
[23:46] <mathiaz> kirkland: bzr bd
[23:46] <mathiaz> kirkland: try bzr bd --help
[23:46] <kirkland> bzr: ERROR: unknown command "bd"
[23:47] <mathiaz> kirkland: ok - have you installed the bzr-builddeb package ?
[23:47] <kirkland> nope, installing....done
[23:49] <mathiaz> kirkland: I usually use bzr bd -S to build the source package
[23:49] <mathiaz> kirkland: and then sbuild to build the package.
[23:49] <kirkland> mathiaz: yup, i just found that one
[23:49] <mathiaz> kirkland: if you use bzr bd, it will export your branch to ../build-area/ and build it there.
[23:49] <kirkland> mathiaz: i'm testing the binary now
[23:49] <mathiaz> kirkland: that way it won't clutter your bzr branch.
[23:50] <cjwatson> FWIW you can generally use plain 'debuild -S' too
[23:50] <cjwatson> bzr bd has some nicer features but there's no real reason to deprecate debuild -S AFAICS
[23:50] <kirkland> cjwatson: i think i ran into a situation where debuild or debuild -S left some cruft around when I did the bzr commit.....
[23:51]  * kirkland can't clearly remember wait that was, vague memory
[23:51] <cjwatson> so why weren't you using bzr status to see what you were committing before bzr commit? :)
[23:51] <cjwatson> usually, at worst, debuild -S leaves some unknown files in the branch, which bzr will pay no attention to unless you add them
[23:52] <cjwatson> it's very rare for it to actually modify files already in the branch, and usually indicates a bug in the build system
[23:52] <cjwatson> sometimes 'debian/rules clean' will update po files and such, and in that case chances are you might actually want to commit that
[23:54] <kirkland> k
[23:54] <cjwatson> (but I'm not saying don't use bzr bd -S if it works for you)
[23:56] <kirkland> mathiaz: okay, i think rev 13 is ready to go
[23:56] <kirkland> mathiaz: you wanna give it a sanity check?
[23:57] <mathiaz> kirkland: sure (considering that I'll sponsor it) :)
[23:57] <kirkland> mathiaz: ;-)
[23:59] <mathiaz> how can you from a system that is in oldrease now (ie edgy -> feisty) ?