[08:50] <thorwil> good morning!
[10:10] <andreasn> wtf, I just scanned the ubuntu art mailing list and there is another Andreas Nilsson
[10:10] <andreasn> :)
[10:11] <andreasn> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-September/007895.html <- not me :)
[10:13] <thorwil> would the real andreasn please stand up, please stand up ^^
[10:15] <thorwil> if you search for my name, you get results that imply that there are 2 or 3 people of the same name, all likely in germany. luckily i havn't seen any sign of them being active in the free software realm
[10:20] <andreasn> Nilsson is a pretty common family name in Sweden
[10:21] <andreasn> my brother had a dude in his class who were also named Peter Nilsson, the teachers had to name them by the place where they lived
[10:21] <andreasn> and then they moved into a apartment together with another friend of them....
[10:21] <thorwil> lol
[10:22] <elky> before i dominated my name in google searches, there was a couple of american journos and a south african UN person with my name who showed up
[10:22] <elky> the journos still do, not seen any mention of the un person for ages
[10:23] <thorwil> he went missing. where have you been when that happened, elky? ;)
[10:23] <elky> heh
[10:24] <elky> holy crap, there's 4 other melissa draper's in my linkedin network
[16:18]  * thorwil notices that the canonical graphic designer job posting disappeared. after only a few months ...
[17:11] <thorwil> is there a way to get text flow to the left of images in the wiki?
[19:23] <kwwii> thorwil: a table is the only way I guess
[19:23] <thorwil> kwwii: seems so. moinmoin knows other ways, but they are not installed, it seems
[19:24] <kwwii> yeah, the limiting factor of installed modules seems to be the biggest problem with out wiki
[19:24] <thorwil> no big deal, just a bit much white space :)
[19:27] <kwwii> I gave up trying to make it look any different than the default as it seems impossible :-(
[19:27] <kwwii> and rather ugly if you ask me
[19:28] <thorwil> oh yes! :)
[19:34] <thorwil> i saw there are other themes to choose in user settings, but decided not to, as i need to see what most will see
[19:38] <kwwii> well, the other "themes" are mainly just the header graphic and colors
[19:39]  * kwwii watches a film
[19:47] <jacksonhyde> evening all! anyone active?
[19:49] <thorwil> active in what way? scuffle through the streets, seeking fresh brains to devour?
[19:50] <jacksonhyde> well, that sounds like fun right there, but not really what I was looking for.
[19:50] <jacksonhyde> I was wondering if anyone had any time to talk about the Ubuntu artwork team.
[19:50] <jacksonhyde> I'm a graphic designer and I'd love to get involved in the project.
[19:51] <thorwil> jacksonhyde: we just recently had a discussion about the definition of the artwork team
[19:51] <jacksonhyde> ended in tears? :)
[19:51] <thorwil> heh, no
[19:52] <thorwil> jacksonhyde: first of all, join the mailing list if you havn't already
[19:52] <jacksonhyde> yes, doing so now.
[19:52] <thorwil> jacksonhyde: said discussion was to some degree about the common misconception that the artwork team gets to work on the default theme
[19:53] <jacksonhyde> I see.
[19:53] <thorwil> what is happening right now is that we have a few small teams working on community themes
[19:53] <jacksonhyde> cool.
[19:53] <thorwil> these will offered alongside
[19:54] <jacksonhyde> Basically, I'm currently working for a global cosmetics brand and down to my contract I can't do any other commercial work.
[19:54] <thorwil> but only Mark Shuttleworth and to some degree Kenneth Wimer decide on the default theme and wallpaper
[19:54] <jacksonhyde> Unfortunately for me, I really want to expand my portfolio, especially in the realm of interface and user-experience.
[19:54] <thorwil> jacksonhyde: we have high demand for professionals
[19:55] <jacksonhyde> well, I've been designing since I could hold a pencil. My mum is a pro designer, my grandad was a pro-illustrator.
[19:55] <jacksonhyde> I guess you can say it's in my blood. :)
[19:55] <thorwil> don't make me jealous ^^
[19:55] <jacksonhyde> :P
[19:56] <thorwil> it is theoretically possible to create a theme or wallpaper and have it picked as default
[19:56] <Cimi> designing an UI does not require artistic skills
[19:56] <thorwil> this more or less happened with the hardy heron wallpaper
[19:57] <thorwil> designing anything doesn't require any skills. the result will talk for itself, though
[19:58] <jacksonhyde> Cimi: that's a bit of a contradiction in terms.
[19:58] <jacksonhyde> I'm not an artist in the sense of oils and canvases, but I do see user-interface design as an art form.
[19:58] <jacksonhyde> sorry, I should say *good* design is an artform
[19:58] <Cimi> yeah, it is
[19:58] <Cimi> but I meant
[19:59] <Cimi> despite walls and some icons
[19:59] <thorwil> jacksonhyde: do you have a portfolio up somewhere?
[19:59] <dilomo> UI is very sophisticated form of design
[19:59] <Cimi> the GUI doesn't require any artistic skills
[19:59] <jacksonhyde> I can show you some of the stuff I've worked on at past agencies.
[19:59] <thorwil> yes, please
[20:00] <jacksonhyde> http://www.celotex.co.uk
[20:00] <jacksonhyde> http://www.totallyhome.co.uk/
[20:00] <jacksonhyde> that was at the last agency
[20:00] <dilomo> Cimi: it requires if you are going to use pixmap enginme
[20:00] <dilomo> engine*
[20:01] <Cimi> no one is going to use that engine, and I really hope it will be removed in GTK+ 3
[20:01] <thorwil> jacksonhyde: what has been your responsibiliyt on those sites exacty?
[20:01] <jacksonhyde> at the agency before that I did clientside development and worked on some pretty big sites http://www.fujifilm.co.uk
[20:02] <jacksonhyde> on celotex and totally home I worked with a senior designer. He basically set the theme and I was responsible for page layouts and user-interaction.
[20:03] <jacksonhyde> so yeah, I spend most of my time in CS suites, but I love to get my hands dirty with XHTML, CSS, JS etc etc.
[20:03] <thorwil> jacksonhyde: so your things is interface and graphic design? not so much information architecture or illustration?
[20:03] <jacksonhyde> I'd be the first to admit my portfolio is pretty slim, which is why I'm trying to expand it by working on stuff like this.
[20:03] <jacksonhyde> thorwil: yes, exactly.
[20:04] <jacksonhyde> is there much call for such skills in this project?
[20:04] <thorwil> jacksonhyde: seems you would be better off with a website effort, not a desktop theme, what is what we concentarte on here
[20:04] <jacksonhyde> yeah, I guess.
[20:04] <jacksonhyde> Is there a similar web-orientated team?
[20:05] <thorwil> jacksonhyde: kinda. there's #ubuntu-website
[20:05] <thorwil> jacksonhyde: they don't think so much in a ... design way
[20:05] <jacksonhyde> hehe...mostly developers?
[20:05] <thorwil> pretty much
[20:05] <kwwii> but if you think you have little say in the artwork for the desktop I bet that there is even less on the websites
[20:06] <PRGUY85> jacksonhyde: would you be interested in helping out some community theme teams?
[20:06] <jacksonhyde> yeah, I want to help anybody really.
[20:06] <thorwil> jacksonhyde: you should join that channel and talk with newz2000 for official site and maybe qense for a communiyt project
[20:06] <jacksonhyde> I fully support the OpenSource movement so I'd like to contribute my skills wherever I can.
[20:07] <PRGUY85> jacksonhyde: well do you know the New Wave theme? We are looking for aid
[20:07] <thorwil> jacksonhyde: contributing to one of the theme teams isn't a bad idea
[20:08] <dilomo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/NewWave?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=newwave-meta.png
[20:08] <Cimi> jacksonhyde, I could offer you something better
[20:08] <dilomo> image of New Wave
[20:08] <PRGUY85> I'm no designer but I'm helping dilomo with ideas and testing the theme out
[20:08] <Cimi> feel free to query me
[20:08] <thorwil> jacksonhyde: if you want more freedom, it's better to target the next-next release, though, as we are late in the cycle
[20:08] <jacksonhyde> here's the embarrassing thing, I'm not actually running Ubuntu at the moment, but I've set up a VM on my Mac and I'm download 8.04LTS as we speak.
[20:09] <jacksonhyde> I should be picking up a MacBook in October sometime, Ubuntu is going to be the primary OS on it as well.
[20:09] <PRGUY85> jacksonhyde: no shame there hehe
[20:09]  * jacksonhyde blushes
[20:09] <jacksonhyde> diplo: that's a nice theme, I'd be happy to help you out.
[20:10] <thorwil> jacksonhyde: most here prefer to have stuff done with free tools, but most here are no fanatics ;)
[20:11] <thorwil> jacksonhyde: plus apple is kinda our official goal-post, so it's good to know it first hand ^^
[20:11] <jacksonhyde> I'd much prefer to use open source tools (and I'm not trying to start a GIMP vs PS debate here), but I can work most efficiently in PS>
[20:11] <dilomo> jacksonhyde: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/NewWave
[20:12] <dilomo> if you are interested
[20:25] <rsc_> hey guys.
[20:25] <thorwil> hi Rico
[20:25] <rsc_> i need a little advice here.
[20:25] <rsc_> someone edited the wiki page for the Dust Theme, and uploaded their own edits of the GTK theme.
[20:26] <aantn> ouch
[20:26] <aantn> rsc_: what was changed?
[20:26] <rsc_> I'm not sure I'm in the position to be, but I'm kinda upset that changes like these don't go through me (I understand things have to be democratic, but as someone who created the concept and the vision for it, I think it might be best if I know about changes.)
[20:27] <rsc_> I think it was just the GTK color scheme
[20:27] <rsc_> I'm not very familiar with the whole open source idea. is my concern valid? should I start seeking other venues of publishing/collaborating/updating the theme?
[20:27] <thorwil> rsc_: your are likely right to be upset
[20:27] <aantn> rsc_: yeah
[20:27] <rsc_> (other than the wiki)
[20:27] <aantn> rsc_: you could always do it via launchpad
[20:27] <rsc_> bazaar?
[20:28] <thorwil> rsc_: you should find it who did it and why
[20:28] <thorwil> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/DustTheme?action=info
[20:28] <aantn> rsc_: that would also make it easier for people to file bugs on the bug tracker
[20:29] <rsc_> actually, for now, i edited the page to mention that it was edited. (I didn't revert it or anything yet)
[20:29] <aantn> rsc_: people would be able to submit patches that could then go through you're review
[20:29] <jacksonhyde> bye guys, thanks for all the info. I'll be back! (you've been warned).
[20:29] <aantn> er, *your
[20:29] <jacksonhyde> *and gals
[20:29] <jacksonhyde> if there are any...
[20:29] <thorwil> jacksonhyde: heh, np
[20:30] <rsc_> haha. I ought to learn bazaar soon.
[20:30] <rsc_> (or is there an option for git or svn? :P)
[20:30] <aantn> rsc_: it's _really_ easy
[20:30] <thorwil> launchpad might have import options, bit is all about bzr
[20:30] <aantn> read the five minute guide and you'll be up and using it
[20:31] <thorwil> rsc_: bzr is sure worth it. i still think that it's a good idea to talk with the one doing the edit, though
[20:32] <aantn> rsc__: I'm not sure what the last comment you saw was...
[20:35] <aantn> later
[20:35] <PRGUY85> anyone that wants to help me with New Wave please contact me
[20:36] <dilomo>  PRGUY85 is responsible for the theme
[20:36] <dilomo> while I'm absant
[20:36] <dilomo> and that might be a long time ;)
[20:37] <thorwil> dilomo: best of luck on your way!
[20:37] <dilomo> thanks man
[20:40] <thorwil> dilomo: a city we know? what are you studying?
[20:40] <dilomo> well it is in my country Bulgaria, the city is its capital Sofia
[20:41] <dilomo> I'm going to study Architecture and Urbanism
[20:41] <PRGUY85> wow nice
[20:41] <thorwil> never heard of that Sofia ;p
[20:41] <dilomo> :)
[20:42] <PRGUY85> hehe its the capital!
[20:42] <dilomo> now you have
[20:43] <dilomo> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Sofia&ie=UTF8&ll=42.488302,24.65332&spn=21.882686,39.550781&z=5&iwloc=addr
[20:43] <thorwil> dilomo: so, when will we here of revolutionary open-source city-architecture out of sofia?
[20:43] <dilomo> :D
[20:43] <dilomo> I hope its soon
[20:44] <thorwil> could be one of my former professors studied there
[20:44] <thorwil> no wait, mixed that up
[20:46] <thorwil> with bucharest, shame on me
[20:46] <dilomo> :)
[20:47] <dilomo> they are right next door
[20:49] <dilomo> right now I'm in this city
[20:49] <dilomo> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Plovdiv&ie=UTF8&ll=42.145237,24.75106&spn=0.005377,0.009656&t=h&z=17
[20:49] <rsc_> sorry bout that
[20:50] <rsc_> is there a log i can check? I got disconnected after "<thorwil> rsc_: bzr is sure worth it. ...".
[20:50] <thorwil> rsc_: one moment
[20:51] <rsc_> https://launchpad.net/+tour/branch-hosting-tracking is the closest to a "bazaar guide" i can find there :)
[20:51] <thorwil> rsc_: http://rafb.net/p/hgUk2w42.html
[20:51] <rsc_> thanks :)
[20:51] <thorwil> np
[20:52] <thorwil> dilomo: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Plovdiv&ie=UTF8&ll=42.145237,24.75106&spn=0.005377,0.009656&t=h&z=17
[20:52] <thorwil> dilomo: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Plovdiv&ie=UTF8&ll=42.145237,24.75106&spn=0.005377,0.009656&t=h&z=17
[20:53] <dilomo> what about this place?
[20:53] <thorwil> dilomo: that where i live :)
[20:54] <dilomo> you have to be kidding me man
[20:54] <dilomo> explin
[20:54] <dilomo> explain*
[20:54] <thorwil> dilomo: or did you mean the first link?
[20:55] <dilomo> (22,52,36) thorwil: dilomo: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Plovdiv&ie=UTF8&ll=42.145237,24.75106&spn=0.005377,0.009656&t=h&z=17
[20:56] <thorwil> dilomo: oh, the link doesn'T carry enough info
[20:56] <thorwil> dilomo: i actually did a "From here"
[20:56] <thorwil> sory bout that
[20:56] <dilomo> np
[20:57] <dilomo> I used the Link
[20:57] <dilomo> link button to copy it
[20:57] <aantn> rsc_: I just saw the update to the wiki page
[20:57] <aantn> rsc_: you handled that very nicely
[20:58] <thorwil> dilomo: aha! http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Plovdiv,+Bulgaria&geocode=&dirflg=&daddr=moenchengladbach,+germany&f=d&hl=en&sll=42.145237,24.75106&sspn=0.004757,0.009538&ie=UTF8&ll=44.418088,20.34668&spn=9.38456,19.533691&t=h&z=6
[21:00] <dilomo> nice :)
[21:05] <dilomo> bye everyone
[21:05] <thorwil> dilomo: good bye!
[21:05] <thorwil> and good night! :)
[21:06] <dilomo> thanks
[21:25] <rsc__> rargh. launchpad/bzr is a little frustrating. :)
[21:25] <rsc__> (trying to figure out how to put somethign in the project's "downloads" page)
[23:18] <kwwii> rsc_: just reading back... I think that as the leader of the team you should be consulted about changes...putting things in bzr would solve these problems as you would have the only official archive and others could branch from that to show their ideas without changing your ideas
[23:19] <kwwii> and with that, I am off to bed