[11:08] kwwii: i can't find your palette anymore. only thing i do find is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=ubuntu-palette.png [12:36] thorwil: I'll send it to you per email [12:36] kwwii: ok, thanks [12:38] strange how mdz is subscribed to only one particular page of those i'm editing [12:41] thorwil: freaky that he would subscribe to any art page really [12:41] but if he finds the time to read it, good for him :-) [12:42] heh. just my Process page won't be that enlightening, though :) [12:43] hey guys - what do you think of this - http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=comp1ra3.jpg [12:44] not finished yet obviously. [12:44] JoeyReds: jacksonhyde? [12:44] :) [12:44] +10 points [12:45] i just hope you will stick to one nick in future, makes things much simpler :) [12:45] heh, yeah I will. [12:45] * JoeyReds sticks [12:46] JoeyReds: you might want to tell us a bit about your intentions there [12:46] well I was just playing about really. [12:47] JoeyReds: i like the breadcrumb widget, with a rounded "origin". the last, active button is problematic, though. that kind of darkening tends to say recessed, bu it isn't [12:47] I wanted to see what a dark title bar looked like and it all kind of came from there really. [12:47] I can recess it, similar to the back/next drop downs. [12:48] yeah, the breadcrumbs is my favorite part. [12:48] I'm going to make my own icons, but for now I just used the Hardy ones. [12:49] JoeyReds: the icons on buttons don't quite do it. the rounded buttons are problematic for i think the say Apple [12:50] I pretty much ripped them from Firefox actually. [12:50] but yes, they are quite appley [12:50] ff 3 is adapted to the mac/win/linux platform, afaik [12:50] in looks, i mean [12:51] ah yeah, I just booted FF in ubuntu and I see what you mean. [12:51] I guess I'll have to be a bit more original. :) [12:52] JoeyReds: the content part (white) looks very clearly sunken in, which i think is very good. however, the divider is unclear. the status bar at the bottom doesn't tell me if it comes forwards or tries to step back [12:53] yeah, I haven't really looked at that bit yet, just stuck it in there for completion's sake. [12:54] so what kind of process is used to actually build the theme? [12:55] JoeyReds: there are other here who can answer that much better [12:55] JoeyReds: but generally, you need to pick a theme engine and write a theme for it [12:56] JoeyReds: where it obviously makes sense to choose one that is or will be in ubuntu [12:56] Murrine? [12:56] JoeyReds: we have one engine author here, Cimi [12:56] yes [12:56] yeah I was speaking to him last night. [12:57] his website ranks #2 for 'murrine' [12:57] from mockup to implementation is quite a barrier [12:58] so I see. [12:59] JoeyReds: for the next cycle, i hope i can convince people to work in a dual approach. to target a current engine for the upcoming release, but to also work on mockups not bound to current limits. to see what should be made possible [13:00] sounds interesting. [13:00] bonjour / hello [13:00] feet on the ground, head in the clouds :) [13:00] hello zniavre [13:01] sorry to give opinion i really like the biggest button on your mockup [13:01] the back/next buttons. [13:01] ? [13:01] yes [13:01] don't be sorry about giving an opinion! [13:01] im more used to read than speak [13:01] yeah, they're very similar to the mac Firefox buttons. [13:02] i do not care they do some good looking too [13:02] yeah, exactly what I thought. [13:02] as thorwill said they are a bit too mac-ish. [13:03] is that the actual ff3/mac look? http://www.stupendous.net/files/ff3b4mac.png [13:03] there is in wiki a nautilus mockup with just one button bigger than another ,looks really nice to make "modern" look [13:04] a little different. [13:04] can't find another shot so far [13:06] that's how mine looks in Leopard [13:06] hmm... [13:06] btw, xs.to is a very nice image hoster [13:07] what does the _ suffix mean? [13:07] I've actually got my own server but couldn't be bothered to FTP. [13:07] but I'll remember that. [13:08] JoeyReds_: if get thrown out of irc and get back, your old self is still "locked in" [13:08] JoeyReds_: so irc clients usually have alternative nicks to use in that case [13:08] ah yes, I remember that from my old IRC days. [13:08] per default oldnick_ and oldnick__ [13:11] aided by nickserv, you can actually kick your ghost self out, but it seems rarely does anyoe bother [13:11] I'm not fussed [13:12] registering with nickserv is a good idea, anyway. to avoid having your nick stolen. also it can be that you can't PM without [13:15] JoeyReds_: how's your experienced regarding formalized process? briefing, research, conception, design ... goals, audience, message, requirements? [13:15] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Ubuntu_8.10_Guideline_Proposal_%28Keyhole%29?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=SampleNautilus_Small.png [13:15] well I have to use such processes every day at work. [13:16] although the brand managers haven't seemed to have quite grasped it yet, much to my team's annoyance. [13:16] zniavre: cool, so it's already been talked about [13:16] ? [13:17] JoeyReds_: i ask because i'm working on something along those lines for the next and coming cycles. maybe i can announce it this evening or during monday [13:17] setting up formalized processes? [13:17] I'm all for it. [13:18] JoeyReds_: yes. naturally it's an offer, not a requirement [13:19] I think at spec stage, you *have* to look at target audience, at planning stage you'd be an idiot not to set milestones and for production stage you need a brief for efficient work, [13:20] JoeyReds_: it's not official yet, but not exactly a secret here, so: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/KyudoGuidelines [13:21] looks good. [13:21] JoeyReds_: my own training is actually in industrial design. i will be happy for input, especially from a pro :) [13:22] well I can offer any expertise I have. [13:22] cool :) [13:22] Are there project managers in the artwork group? [13:23] and if not, why not? [13:23] JoeyReds_: kwwii (Kenneth Wimer) is employed as art director at Canonical. it is actually not his job to her the art community, but he did anyway, to some degree :) [13:25] JoeyReds_: we are trying to keep the chaos down and have a meritocracy [13:25] I see. [13:25] herd the art community, i wanted to write [13:25] brb [13:37] * thorwil -> coffee [13:37] k === JoeyReds_ is now known as JoeyReds [13:57] how about this for button structure: http://xs131.xs.to/xs131/08380/comp2643.jpg [14:00] is it just me or are the ubuntu forums down? === jacksonhyde is now known as JoeyReds [15:10] hi fellas :) [15:11] hi rsc__ [15:12] not sure where to ask this. its not directly an artwork-related question, but how can i do something like FOO=`date +%Y` in a makefile? [15:12] i'm trying to make some Makefiles for my themes to help ease packaging. [15:14] hoora, its $(shell date +%Y) [16:18] Damn. setting up a PPA looks like hard work [17:49] damn i can't even figure out how to make a .deb of a gtk theme. haha [17:56] rsc_: ask MMA or kwwii on monday [17:59] does intrepid beta will have brand new theme? [18:00] rsc_: http://picpaste.com/Screenshot_1.png [18:00] Nice work. [18:00] I like the new scrollbars from trunk. [18:02] Is there any other way to get the gtkrc's to work with murrine trunk other than changing style - profile? [18:03] dashua: this will be default in intrepid? [18:04] Nece228: No, this a community theme. [18:05] Canonical has apparently hired a UI designer for default. [18:09] dashua: so ubuntu intrepid beta will have brand new look? [18:09] dashua: and new icons? [18:10] Nece228: Hopefully. :) [18:10] dont you know when murrine transparency will be released public? [18:13] no I don't [18:13] i cant wait for it [18:13] :] [18:14] it doesn't depend on me [18:15] the thing i notice is that murrine is not faster than clearlooks, compare clearlooks classic and murrine [18:15] it requires a gtk+ patch to enable RGBA colormap by default [18:15] its hard, but cool [18:15] it depends on the roundness [18:15] and the options [18:15] then why you say that its 30% faster? [18:16] it can be even slower too [18:16] because with default values it is [18:16] and consider that i've improved clearlooks performances since 2.18 [18:17] it was slower when i've written the first murrine release [18:17] now they are comparable [18:17] i want gtk engine which has animated buttons :( [18:18] and both really fast compared to any pixmap theme [18:18] why you need those? to slowdown you system? [18:19] it dont slow down your system, kde style polyester is as fast as plastik for me [18:20] i didnt see any difference in 900 mhz machine ;] [18:21] kde 3 is not using vectorial drawings [18:21] with antialias [18:21] kde4 was the first release to introduce this [18:22] hmm [18:22] while gnome introduced it 3 years ago [18:22] antialias is slower [18:22] CimiDS: so gtk2 is more powerful than qtx? [18:23] in terms of vectorial drawings they are comparable [18:24] CimiDS: so i think there's no point to create gtk3 [18:24] CimiDS: and gnome3 with it [18:24] maybe gtk+ has more features, though it is slower because it lacks of a opengl backend [18:25] no, gtk+3 is necessary because there's too much code inside gtk2 which stops further development (to preserve API compatibility) [18:26] with 3.0 much code will be removed, opening the way to new features [18:26] CimiDS: oh, you are really clever === CimiDS is now known as Cimi [18:26] omg [18:26] cimi opua - murrine founder [18:27] I'm the author of murrine, so I'm the founder of that channel [18:27] easy :) [18:28] Cimi: but qt4 seems to be MUCH more heavy than gtk2 [18:28] heavy? [18:28] what do you mean? [18:28] Cimi: my english is bad sorry, i mean gtk2 is much more faster than qt4 [18:28] yeah [18:29] opengl backend is not enabled by default [18:29] Cimi: when i enable video rendering (composite) gnome becames much more smooth [18:30] though gtk+ has clutter to draw opengl canvases (to embed opengl stuff inside a program) [18:30] Cimi: is this somethink like opengl backend? [18:30] no [18:30] but they cache the windows [18:31] with compiz the windows are inside the video card's VRAM [18:33] Cimi: can i ask some other question? [18:33] y, but i will answer later [18:33] a bit busy actually [18:33] Cimi: ok [18:33] :/ [18:35] Cimi: what do you mean by also few dollars to donate me a Coke? [18:43] donations are a way to say "thanks" to someone who have donated his time to the free software. I usually drink a lot of Coke :). btw i will ask for more donations, actually I'm on a nintendo DS because i don't have a laptop :( neither a cheap one [18:48] Cimi: my dictionary shows that coke is drugs like heroin or somethink lol [18:48] lol [18:48] coke is the beverage [18:48] Cimi: i thinked that you are using drugs :D [18:49] in italy it is also known as Coca Cola [18:49] Cimi: yeah i understand now [18:49] Cimi: i love italy, the best designers in the world are in italy [18:50] thanks [18:50] Cimi: your welcome [18:50] Cimi: ok i have to go sleep - tommorow hard day [18:50] bye [18:51] bye [18:55] dashua: who did canonical hire? [18:59] coke is short for cocain :P [19:01] oh shit [19:01] haha [19:13] Cimi: you're using DSOrganize? [19:14] you know, a DS and flashcart is probably more expensive than a eee [19:14] DiSOrganize? :p [19:15] it's sort of a palm pilot app for the DS that also has useful stuff [19:15] unlike palm [19:15] ah nice [19:15] web browser, irc [19:21] pwnguin, I bought this DS a long time ago [19:22] btw I'm using CLIRC, which is comparable with a complete irc client (supports logs and file trabsfers) [19:26] heh, i have a DS, DS lite, and I bought a tabletPC in part to have a ds emulator ;) [20:14] Hello? [20:15] echo === DanaG1 is now known as DanaG