[11:08] <thorwil> kwwii: i can't find your palette anymore. only thing i do find is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=ubuntu-palette.png
[12:36] <kwwii> thorwil: I'll send it to you per email
[12:36] <thorwil> kwwii: ok, thanks
[12:38] <thorwil> strange how mdz is subscribed to only one particular page of those i'm editing
[12:41] <kwwii> thorwil: freaky that he would subscribe to any art page really
[12:41] <kwwii> but if he finds the time to read it, good for him :-)
[12:42] <thorwil> heh. just my Process page won't be that enlightening, though :)
[12:43] <JoeyReds> hey guys - what do you think of this - http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=comp1ra3.jpg
[12:44] <JoeyReds> not finished yet obviously.
[12:44] <thorwil> JoeyReds: jacksonhyde?
[12:44] <JoeyReds> :)
[12:44] <JoeyReds> +10 points
[12:45] <thorwil> i just hope you will stick to one nick in future, makes things much simpler :)
[12:45] <JoeyReds> heh, yeah I will.
[12:45]  * JoeyReds sticks
[12:46] <thorwil> JoeyReds: you might want to tell us a bit about your intentions there
[12:46] <JoeyReds> well I was just playing about really.
[12:47] <thorwil> JoeyReds: i like the breadcrumb widget, with a rounded "origin". the last, active button is problematic, though. that kind of darkening tends to say recessed, bu it isn't
[12:47] <JoeyReds> I wanted to see what a dark title bar looked like and it all kind of came from there really.
[12:47] <JoeyReds> I can recess it, similar to the back/next drop downs.
[12:48] <JoeyReds> yeah, the breadcrumbs is my favorite part.
[12:48] <JoeyReds> I'm going to make my own icons, but for now I just used the Hardy ones.
[12:49] <thorwil> JoeyReds: the icons on buttons don't quite do it. the rounded buttons are problematic for i think the say Apple
[12:50] <JoeyReds> I pretty much ripped them from Firefox actually.
[12:50] <JoeyReds> but yes, they are quite appley
[12:50] <thorwil> ff 3 is adapted to the mac/win/linux platform, afaik
[12:50] <thorwil> in looks, i mean
[12:51] <JoeyReds> ah yeah, I just booted FF in ubuntu and I see what you mean.
[12:51] <JoeyReds> I guess I'll have to be a bit more original. :)
[12:52] <thorwil> JoeyReds: the content part (white) looks very clearly sunken in, which i think is very good. however, the divider is unclear. the status bar at the bottom doesn't tell me if it comes forwards or tries to step back
[12:53] <JoeyReds> yeah, I haven't really looked at that bit yet, just stuck it in there for completion's sake.
[12:54] <JoeyReds> so what kind of process is used to actually build the theme?
[12:55] <thorwil> JoeyReds: there are other here who can answer that much better
[12:55] <thorwil> JoeyReds: but generally, you need to pick a theme engine and write a theme for it
[12:56] <thorwil> JoeyReds: where it obviously makes sense to choose one that is or will be in ubuntu
[12:56] <JoeyReds> Murrine?
[12:56] <thorwil> JoeyReds: we have one engine author here, Cimi
[12:56] <thorwil> yes
[12:56] <JoeyReds> yeah I was speaking to him last night.
[12:57] <JoeyReds> his website ranks #2 for 'murrine'
[12:57] <thorwil> from mockup to implementation is quite a barrier
[12:58] <JoeyReds> so I see.
[12:59] <thorwil> JoeyReds: for the next cycle, i hope i can convince people to work in a dual approach. to target a current engine for the upcoming release, but to also work on mockups not bound to current limits. to see what should be made possible
[13:00] <JoeyReds> sounds interesting.
[13:00] <zniavre> bonjour / hello
[13:00] <thorwil> feet on the ground, head in the clouds :)
[13:00] <thorwil> hello zniavre
[13:01] <zniavre> sorry to give opinion i really like the biggest button on your mockup
[13:01] <JoeyReds> the back/next buttons.
[13:01] <JoeyReds> ?
[13:01] <zniavre> yes
[13:01] <JoeyReds> don't be sorry about giving an opinion!
[13:01] <zniavre> im more used to read than speak
[13:01] <JoeyReds> yeah, they're very similar to the mac Firefox buttons.
[13:02] <zniavre> i do not care they do some good looking too
[13:02] <JoeyReds> yeah, exactly what I thought.
[13:02] <JoeyReds> as thorwill said they are a bit too mac-ish.
[13:03] <thorwil> is that the actual ff3/mac look? http://www.stupendous.net/files/ff3b4mac.png
[13:03] <zniavre> there is in wiki a nautilus mockup with just one button bigger than another ,looks really nice to make "modern" look
[13:04] <JoeyReds> a little different.
[13:04] <thorwil> can't find another shot so far
[13:06] <JoeyReds_> that's how mine looks in Leopard
[13:06] <JoeyReds_> hmm...
[13:06] <thorwil> btw, xs.to is a very nice image hoster
[13:07] <JoeyReds_> what does the _ suffix mean?
[13:07] <JoeyReds_> I've actually got my own server but couldn't be bothered to FTP.
[13:07] <JoeyReds_> but I'll remember that.
[13:08] <thorwil> JoeyReds_: if get thrown out of irc and get back, your old self is still "locked in"
[13:08] <thorwil> JoeyReds_: so irc clients usually have alternative nicks to use in that case
[13:08] <JoeyReds_> ah yes, I remember that from my old IRC days.
[13:08] <thorwil> per default oldnick_ and oldnick__
[13:11] <thorwil> aided by nickserv, you can actually kick your ghost self out, but it seems rarely does anyoe bother
[13:11] <JoeyReds_> I'm not fussed
[13:12] <thorwil> registering with nickserv is a good idea, anyway. to avoid having your nick stolen. also it can be that you can't PM without
[13:15] <thorwil> JoeyReds_: how's your experienced regarding formalized process? briefing, research, conception, design ... goals, audience, message, requirements?
[13:15] <zniavre> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Ubuntu_8.10_Guideline_Proposal_%28Keyhole%29?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=SampleNautilus_Small.png
[13:15] <JoeyReds_> well I have to use such processes every day at work.
[13:16] <JoeyReds_> although the brand managers haven't seemed to have quite grasped it yet, much to my team's annoyance.
[13:16] <JoeyReds_> zniavre: cool, so it's already been talked about
[13:16] <JoeyReds_> ?
[13:17] <thorwil> JoeyReds_: i ask because i'm working on something along those lines for the next and coming cycles. maybe i can announce it this evening or during monday
[13:17] <JoeyReds_> setting up formalized processes?
[13:17] <JoeyReds_> I'm all for it.
[13:18] <thorwil> JoeyReds_: yes. naturally it's an offer, not a requirement
[13:19] <JoeyReds_> I think at spec stage, you *have* to look at target audience, at planning stage you'd be an idiot not to set milestones and for production stage you need a brief for efficient work,
[13:20] <thorwil> JoeyReds_: it's not official yet, but not exactly a secret here, so: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/KyudoGuidelines
[13:21] <JoeyReds_> looks good.
[13:21] <thorwil> JoeyReds_: my own training is actually in industrial design. i will be happy for input, especially from a pro :)
[13:22] <JoeyReds_> well I can offer any expertise I have.
[13:22] <thorwil> cool :)
[13:22] <JoeyReds_> Are there project managers in the artwork group?
[13:23] <JoeyReds_> and if not, why not?
[13:23] <thorwil> JoeyReds_: kwwii (Kenneth Wimer) is employed as art director at Canonical. it is actually not his job to her the art community, but he did anyway, to some degree :)
[13:25] <thorwil> JoeyReds_: we are trying to keep the chaos down and have a meritocracy
[13:25] <JoeyReds_> I see.
[13:25] <thorwil> herd the art community, i wanted to write
[13:25] <JoeyReds_> brb
[13:37]  * thorwil -> coffee
[13:37] <JoeyReds_> k
[13:57] <JoeyReds> how about this for button structure: http://xs131.xs.to/xs131/08380/comp2643.jpg
[14:00] <JoeyReds> is it just me or are the ubuntu forums down?
[15:10] <rsc__> hi fellas :)
[15:11] <thorwil> hi rsc__
[15:12] <rsc__> not sure where to ask this. its not directly an artwork-related question, but how can i do something like FOO=`date +%Y` in a makefile?
[15:12] <rsc__> i'm trying to make some Makefiles for my themes to help ease packaging.
[15:14] <rsc__> hoora, its $(shell date +%Y)
[16:18] <rsc__> Damn. setting up a PPA looks like hard work
[17:49] <rsc_> damn i can't even figure out how to make a .deb of a gtk theme. haha
[17:56] <thorwil> rsc_: ask MMA or kwwii on monday
[17:59] <Nece228> does intrepid beta will have brand new theme?
[18:00] <dashua> rsc_: http://picpaste.com/Screenshot_1.png
[18:00] <dashua> Nice work.
[18:00] <dashua> I like the new scrollbars from trunk.
[18:02] <dashua> Is there any other way to get the gtkrc's to work with murrine trunk other than changing style - profile?
[18:03] <Nece228> dashua: this will be default in intrepid?
[18:04] <dashua> Nece228: No, this a community theme.
[18:05] <dashua> Canonical has apparently hired a UI designer for default.
[18:09] <Nece228> dashua: so ubuntu intrepid beta will have brand new look?
[18:09] <Nece228> dashua: and new icons?
[18:10] <dashua> Nece228: Hopefully. :)
[18:10] <Nece228> dont you know when murrine transparency will be released public?
[18:13] <CimiDS> no I don't
[18:13] <Nece228> i cant wait for it
[18:13] <Nece228> :]
[18:14] <CimiDS> it doesn't depend on me
[18:15] <Nece228> the thing i notice is that murrine is not faster than clearlooks, compare clearlooks classic and murrine
[18:15] <CimiDS> it requires a gtk+ patch to enable RGBA colormap by default
[18:15] <Nece228> its hard, but cool
[18:15] <CimiDS> it depends on the roundness
[18:15] <CimiDS> and the options
[18:15] <Nece228> then why you say that its 30% faster?
[18:16] <Nece228> it can be even slower too
[18:16] <CimiDS> because with default values it is
[18:16] <CimiDS> and consider that i've improved clearlooks performances since 2.18
[18:17] <CimiDS> it was slower when i've written the first murrine release
[18:17] <CimiDS> now they are comparable
[18:17] <Nece228> i want gtk engine which has animated buttons :(
[18:18] <CimiDS> and both really fast compared to any pixmap theme
[18:18] <CimiDS> why you need those? to slowdown you system?
[18:19] <Nece228> it dont slow down your system, kde style polyester is as fast as plastik for me
[18:20] <Nece228> i didnt see any difference in 900 mhz machine ;]
[18:21] <CimiDS> kde 3 is not using vectorial drawings
[18:21] <CimiDS> with antialias
[18:21] <CimiDS> kde4 was the first release to introduce this
[18:22] <Nece228> hmm
[18:22] <CimiDS> while gnome introduced it 3 years ago
[18:22] <CimiDS> antialias is slower
[18:22] <Nece228> CimiDS: so gtk2 is more powerful than qtx?
[18:23] <CimiDS> in terms of vectorial drawings they are comparable
[18:24] <Nece228> CimiDS: so i think there's no point to create gtk3
[18:24] <Nece228> CimiDS: and gnome3 with it
[18:24] <CimiDS> maybe gtk+ has more features, though it is slower because it lacks of a opengl backend
[18:25] <CimiDS> no, gtk+3 is necessary because there's too much code inside gtk2 which stops further development (to preserve API compatibility)
[18:26] <CimiDS> with 3.0 much code will be removed, opening the way to new features
[18:26] <Nece228> CimiDS: oh, you are really clever
[18:26] <Nece228> omg
[18:26] <Nece228> cimi opua - murrine founder
[18:27] <Cimi> I'm the author of murrine, so I'm the founder of that channel
[18:27] <Cimi> easy :)
[18:28] <Nece228> Cimi: but qt4 seems to be MUCH more heavy than gtk2
[18:28] <Cimi> heavy?
[18:28] <Cimi> what do you mean?
[18:28] <Nece228> Cimi: my english is bad sorry, i mean gtk2 is much more faster than qt4
[18:28] <Cimi> yeah
[18:29] <Cimi> opengl backend is not enabled by default
[18:29] <Nece228> Cimi: when i enable video rendering (composite) gnome becames much more smooth
[18:30] <Cimi> though gtk+ has clutter to draw opengl canvases (to embed opengl stuff inside a program)
[18:30] <Nece228> Cimi: is this somethink like opengl backend?
[18:30] <Cimi> no
[18:30] <Cimi> but they cache the windows
[18:31] <Cimi> with compiz the windows are inside the video card's VRAM
[18:33] <Nece228> Cimi: can i ask some other question?
[18:33] <Cimi> y, but i will answer later
[18:33] <Cimi> a bit busy actually
[18:33] <Nece228> Cimi: ok
[18:33] <Cimi> :/
[18:35] <Nece228> Cimi: what do you mean by also few dollars to donate me a Coke?
[18:43] <Cimi> donations are a way to say "thanks" to someone who have donated his time to the free software. I usually drink a lot of Coke :). btw i will ask for more donations, actually I'm on a nintendo DS because i don't have a laptop :( neither a cheap one
[18:48] <Nece228> Cimi: my dictionary shows that coke is drugs like heroin or somethink lol
[18:48] <Cimi> lol
[18:48] <Cimi> coke is the beverage
[18:48] <Nece228> Cimi: i thinked that you are using drugs :D
[18:49] <Cimi> in italy it is also known as Coca Cola
[18:49] <Nece228> Cimi: yeah i understand now
[18:49] <Nece228> Cimi: i love italy, the best designers in the world are in italy
[18:50] <Cimi> thanks
[18:50] <Nece228> Cimi: your welcome
[18:50] <Nece228> Cimi: ok i have to go sleep - tommorow hard day
[18:50] <Nece228> bye
[18:51] <Cimi> bye
[18:55] <aantn> dashua: who did canonical hire?
[18:59] <savvas> coke is short for cocain :P
[19:01] <Cimi> oh shit
[19:01] <savvas> haha
[19:13] <pwnguin> Cimi: you're using DSOrganize?
[19:14] <pwnguin> you know, a DS and flashcart is probably more expensive than a eee
[19:14] <savvas> DiSOrganize? :p
[19:15] <pwnguin> it's sort of a palm pilot app for the DS that also has useful stuff
[19:15] <pwnguin> unlike palm
[19:15] <savvas> ah nice
[19:15] <pwnguin> web browser, irc
[19:21] <Cimi> pwnguin, I bought this DS a long time ago
[19:22] <Cimi> btw I'm using CLIRC, which is comparable with a complete irc client (supports logs and file trabsfers)
[19:26] <pwnguin> heh, i have a DS, DS lite, and I bought a tabletPC in part to have a ds emulator ;)
[20:14] <JustinWhite> Hello?
[20:15] <thorwil> echo