[02:49] <etfb> G'day.  I found a page that desperately needs editing, and I'm willing to have a go at it, but I don't want to step on anyone's toes.  What's the etiquette here?
[02:50] <etfb> (Page is https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinuxLogFiles -- needs copy editing, also has a lot of redundancy that makes it almost unreadable.)
[02:51] <jjesse> etfb: change the doc and ask for forgiveness if someone complaines
[02:52] <etfb> jjesse: Excellent policy!  I shall!
[02:52] <jjesse> etfb: don't know if that is actual policy but is often times how i work here when no one responds
[02:58] <etfb> jjesse: I'm already at it - chopping out long-winded woffle and correcting, abuse, of, commas...  The original author seems to think a comma is a special marker that means "Oh no! I'm about to use the word "and"! Look out!"
[03:05] <etfb> What's the usual X text editor that people recommend for newbies to use in Gnome?  I know Kate is the standard in KDE.  Is it Gedit?
[03:06] <Flannel> etfb: gedit in Ubuntu, mousepad in Xubuntu
[03:06] <jjesse> gedit
[03:06]  * jjesse beds
[03:06] <Flannel> etfb: and nano in terminal
[03:06] <etfb> Flannel: Thanks.
[22:16] <mdke> andrew_sayers: hi, thanks for coming in here
[22:16] <andrew_sayers> No problem - I was surprised you weren't here before.
[22:17] <mdke> i haven't got much time this evening I'm afraid, was quite a long day at work
[22:17] <andrew_sayers> Fair enough.
[22:17] <mdke> so, following your last email
[22:17] <mdke> I think that wiki markup is probably important enough to wait until we've ironed it out before we go ahead with the implementation
[22:17] <mdke> i think a lot of editors will expect to use italics and such
[22:18] <andrew_sayers> And links.
[22:18] <mdke> yes, true
[22:18] <mdke> do you have any idea of what might be causing the problem?
[22:18] <mdke> i don't *think* there is anything wrong with my system
[22:19] <andrew_sayers> Not enough of an idea to really ask a good question of a MoinMoin dev, I don't think.
[22:19] <mdke> hmm
[22:20] <andrew_sayers> My preference would be to work out what the difference is between me and you - why it doesn't affect me.
[22:20] <mdke> any difference in system?
[22:20] <andrew_sayers> Yeah.
[22:20] <andrew_sayers> One way to do that would be for you to do a new install, another would be for you to make a tarball of your moinmoin-1.6.4, and send it to me.
[22:20] <andrew_sayers> Although I guess you've got passwords and such buried in there somewhere.
[22:20] <mdke> I mean, different python version?
[22:21] <andrew_sayers> Oh, sorry.
[22:21] <andrew_sayers> I think you're running Intrepid?
[22:21] <mdke> yes
[22:21] <andrew_sayers> I'm still on Hardy, so it could be something like that.
[22:21] <mdke> the macro would have to work on dapper, so it would have to be pretty robust about these sorts of things
[22:22] <mdke> lemme try a new install quickly
[22:22] <andrew_sayers> Hmm, another way into the problem might be - do you know any friendly moinmoin experts?  I can probably work things out with them, it's just going to take more patience than I can expect from someone random.
[22:23] <mdke> the moin guys are seriously helpful
[22:23] <mdke> but I'm not aware of any experts in the Ubuntu community
[22:24] <andrew_sayers> Hmm, I'll try asking them later then.
[22:25] <mdke> seems to work ok on this new install
[22:25] <mdke> I wonder if it's the theme I was using
[22:27] <mdke> oh no, I'm getting it again now
[22:27] <mdke> weird
[22:27] <andrew_sayers> What steps did you take to reproduce it?
[22:28] <mdke> download Moin 1.6.4, untar, run ./moin.py, edit frontpage, type <<Note(test)>>, save page
[22:28] <andrew_sayers> And that caused the bug the second time, but not the first?
[22:28] <mdke> it works ok on the first page save (on the #preview page) but on refresh I get the bug
[22:29] <andrew_sayers> Ah, hmm.  I think maybe I was only previewing, not saving...
[22:30] <mdke> well, it's saved, but it gives you a little message at the top saying "Thank you for your changes"
[22:30] <mdke> when I clear that message, I get the problem
[22:30] <andrew_sayers> Yeah, I get it now.
[22:31] <mdke> ok, well that's good, sort of
[22:31] <mdke> :)
[22:32] <andrew_sayers> Yeah.  Even so, erk :)
[22:32] <andrew_sayers> I think the solution to this may be somewhat ugly :s
[22:33] <andrew_sayers> Anyway, I'll see what I can do and e-mail you during the night?
[22:33] <mdke> I wonder if you could reuse the ReleaseVersion macro that sommer cooked up
[22:33] <mdke> that seems to do something similar, in the sense that it adds a box with formatted text
[22:33] <mdke> but it doesn't have any formatted input
[22:33] <andrew_sayers> I'll have a look.
[22:34] <mdke> thanks a lot dude. This is all much appreciated!
[22:34] <andrew_sayers> As you say, scratching an itch :)
[22:34] <mdke> I wouldn't have a clue how to do this
[22:35] <andrew_sayers> It's just practice, like most things.  Plus it's given me the wiki bug, which I'm now looking for excuses to use everywhere :)
[22:35] <mdke> that's good, I bet there are loads of other things we could improve :p
[22:36] <andrew_sayers> Oh yeah, and we're ditching the old icon set then?
[22:36] <mdke> andrew_sayers: I like the idea of using consistent ones with the system help
[22:36] <andrew_sayers> Yeah, agreed.
[22:36] <andrew_sayers> Do the other two actually ever get used?
[22:36] <andrew_sayers> Caution and important?
[22:38] <mdke> andrew_sayers: well, caution and warning get used for the same purpose, we should pick one (warning is more striking). Important isn't used afaik
[22:38] <mdke> for urls, you can use https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/images/admon/ for now
[22:38] <mdke> maybe we'll stick them in the theme, maybe something else
[22:39] <andrew_sayers> I'd rather not put them in the theme, unless I can dig up some theme-specific variable...
[22:39] <andrew_sayers> So that the next theme writer doesn't get confused when he can't change the icons.
[22:40] <mdke> andrew_sayers: yes, that's a good point. well, whatever works best
[22:41] <andrew_sayers> If I'm asking moin devs anyway, I'll get their opinion.
[22:44] <mdke> good plan
[22:44] <mdke> I think they are mainly european hour-wise, but you may find someone around at this time
[22:45] <andrew_sayers> Fair enough - otherwise I'll check back tomorrow.
[22:49] <andrew_sayers> About ReleaseVersion - does it use an UbuntuVersions page, and if so, could you put one in Bazaar?
[22:51] <andrew_sayers> mdke: ^^
[22:57] <mdke> andrew_sayers: ah, sorry yeah
[22:57] <mdke> andrew_sayers: http://tinyurl.com/4fbug5
[22:58] <andrew_sayers> mdke: Excellent, thanks.