[00:24] <seele> Riddell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/49480/
[00:24] <seele> Riddell: should set default win size for first time running, when the app closes it will set it as the new default and the kde control module entry will remove itself
[00:25] <seele> Riddell: there are a few apps that still don't obey the global icon setting, i'll fix that next
[00:26] <Riddell> seele: mm, you've been busy :)
[00:27] <seele> Riddell: omg it took me forever to figure it out too.. but i'm glad i found this way instead of fifteen rc files
[00:27] <seele> Riddell: we'll still need to replace a few rc files for the apps that don't obey the global setting, and i think there are a few apps that are better off as icon only (like konq)
[00:29] <Riddell> konq is buggy for that, I think on restore it adds text to the icons
[00:29] <Riddell> to the toolbars I mean
[01:07] <Riddell> seele: kwinrulesrc uploading
[01:07] <Riddell> time to snooze
[01:08] <seele> Riddell: 'night
[01:11] <txwikinger> Riddell: still awake?
[01:12] <Jucato> he snoozes fast :)
[01:14] <txwikinger> well..it is the time to do it over there ;D
[02:28] <goatsocks> seele: some kde4 apps' default css stylesheets are prioritizing MS fonts ("arial", "verdana") over "sans", "sans-serif", or "monospace"... since msttcorefonts is a multiverse package shouldn't all explicit references to MS fonts be replaced with the generic names "sans" etc.?
[02:29] <goatsocks> seele: see: grep --include "*css" -Iri font /usr/share/kde4/* | grep family
[02:34] <seele> goatsocks: hmm?
[02:38] <goatsocks> seele: for example, ktorrent's web interface serves up a css file that will tell your browser to use MS verdana or MS arial over DejaVu or whatever free font the user has chosen globally in KDE
[02:39] <goatsocks> if the user doesn't have msttcorefonts installed that's no problem, it'll default to "sans" (which in my case maps to DejaVu Sans), however i don't think hard-coding MS fonts is a good idea
[02:40] <seele> oh, you mean in terms of the spacing being off?
[02:40] <seele> but that shouldnt have changed from alpha 4 to 5 to 6, everything i tested were default installs
[02:40] <goatsocks> MS fonts render badly with freetype under Qt
[02:41] <goatsocks> (plus they're proprietary)
[02:41] <goatsocks> so let's say i've picked DejaVu Sans in System Settings as my global default app font
[02:42] <goatsocks> ktorrent's web interface serves up a page that forces MS fonts first, and only if MS fonts are absent will it try my KDE global default DejaVu Sans
[02:43] <goatsocks> i could tell my browser to always use my custom fonts, but that kind of ignores the problem
[02:44] <seele> ah, well i'm not too concerned if someone is going to change the defaults.  if they can configure that, then they can probably deal with slight abnormalities which are equaly easy to fix
[02:45] <seele> it only becomes a problem when a lot of people are doing the same thing and we can find a way of preventing it in a nice way
[02:45] <seele> but i think must kubuntu users who arent uber power users just use it out of box
[02:45] <apachelogger> Arby: were you logged in?
[02:45]  * apachelogger is pretty sure one can reopen bugs as normal users on bko
[02:46] <apachelogger> wel
[02:46] <apachelogger> l
[02:46] <goatsocks> yeah they're changeable, i still think they're bad (as in bad taste) defaults though... i'll probably file a bug with some patches ;)
[02:46] <apachelogger> Good morning everyone
[02:46] <goatsocks> hi apachelogger
[02:46] <seele> goatsocks: you mean using MS fonts in the style cheet?
[02:46] <goatsocks> seele: yeah
[02:47] <seele> yeah i agree, especially in an os that is so finicky about pure oss
[02:47] <seele> er, distribution even
[02:49] <goatsocks> personally i think setting specific fonts should be removed from the CSS spec, you should only be able to set generic font families like sans-serif, serif, and monospace
[02:49]  * goatsocks hates when "fancy" websites make assumptions about my fonts
[02:49] <seele> even then is a lot of control by the app.. they shouldnt be setting any font sizes or styles, it should be consistent with the environment
[02:49] <apachelogger> jtechidna: that is actually pretty sad
[02:50] <seele> a label should be the same size and style as all the other labels and not different for one app
[02:50] <apachelogger> jtechidna: I wonder if we should backport 4.1 to gutsy ;-)
[03:10] <apachelogger> kde rev 863738
[04:29] <apachelogger> Riddell: where to move bug 272991 to?
[06:41] <Arby_> Riddell: I mailed you a debdiff for the ktimetracker fix.
[06:42] <Arby_> let me know if there's anything wrong with it
[06:42] <Arby_> it's pretty small anyway.
[06:50] <apachelogger> jtechidna: shouldn't we get lancelot 103 in?
[07:57] <apachelogger> kde bug 170203
[08:05] <apachelogger> Nightrose, seaLne: bug 50686 - I get obnoxious from bugs where upstreams says it is fixed but our report isn't
[08:07] <apachelogger> yuriy: you might want to reopen kde bug 30572
[08:15] <apachelogger> kde rev 857262
[09:32] <Tonio_> hi there
[09:33] <Riddell> rebonjour
[09:34] <Riddell> apachelogger: xserver-xorg
[09:40] <apachelogger> Tonio_: hey, when are you pusing a new kdesudo to intrepid?
[09:42] <apachelogger> Riddell: btw, powerdevil is waiting in new ;-)
[10:06] <Tonio_> apachelogger: when I can fix that kprocess issue
[10:06] <Tonio_> apachelogger: it is polling for something I can't figure out...
[10:06] <apachelogger> Tonio_: I though you converted to qprocess?
[10:06] <Tonio_> apachelogger: same problem
[10:06] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I suspect a qt issue to be honnest
[10:07] <apachelogger> *nod*
[10:07] <Tonio_> apachelogger: completly random, dunno what happens
[10:07] <Tonio_> apachelogger: for example some apps do start with kdesudo, some don't....
[10:08] <Tonio_> apachelogger: looks like something is broken or incomplete in the qprocess environment where the process is running
[10:08] <Tonio_> apachelogger: I may not be able to fix that one myself....
[10:09] <apachelogger> hm
[10:10] <apachelogger> Tonio_: you might get some KDE guy to help ... but I think you should push the current kdesudo ASAP to do quality assurance on it
[10:11]  * apachelogger is going to commit 23 days of 5-a-day work
[10:11] <apachelogger> neversfelde: I hope you are happy
[10:11] <apachelogger> wasting my precious time with that stuff
[10:14] <Tonio_> apachelogger: will do today then ;)
[10:16] <apachelogger> oh kay
[10:18]  * jussi01 hugs apachelogger... why? just cause... :)
[10:19]  * apachelogger starts writing the 3rd ruby script today :D
[10:40] <neversfelde> apachelogger: ?
[10:40] <apachelogger> neversfelde: 5-a-day dood
[10:42] <neversfelde> apachelogger: thats mcas. My 5-a-day stuff is always broken :)
[10:43] <apachelogger> yus, but you complained when I said that I don't do 5adaying
[10:43] <neversfelde> anyway, I am happy^^
[10:57]  * apachelogger really should use dimap
[11:00] <apachelogger> hm
[11:00] <apachelogger> that amount of arguments is awesome
[11:28] <metellius> I extracted the ppa kdelibs package you built, how can I cleanly compile the package with CMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=debugfull?
[11:29] <metellius> I see some if's for DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS, but my packaging and bash skills are very low
[11:44] <apachelogger> metellius: it is built wiht debugfull IIRC
[12:16] <gnomefreak> if anyone has grub splash (picture in grub) can you please give me the first few lines of /boot/grub (just the part that defines the grub image)
[12:21] <jtechidna> apachelogger: it is in
[12:22] <jtechidna> apachelogger: the svn revision is because he hasn't been making tags for 1.0.x when he's been releasing them
[13:18] <smarter> heya!
[13:20] <smarter> sorry to have been a bit MIA these last days, I had some times this afternoon and decided to empty my TODO list ;)
[13:20] <smarter> Kepas FFe: bug #273553
[13:22] <smarter> Guidance Power Manager 4.1.1: https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/guidance/powermanager-ubuntu
[13:23] <smarter> Fix for bug #269598: https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/bespin/ubuntu
[13:24] <smarter> Riddell: ^ Could you please take a look and upload gpm and bespin? :)
[14:13] <smarter> Riddell: Hi, have you seen my message before netsplit? if not: http://pastebin.com/m344e892d I've uploaded a debdiff for gpm here: http://smarter.free.fr/pkg/guidance-power-manager_4.1.0-0ubuntu4_4.1.1-0ubuntu1.debdiff
[14:13] <smarter> and you can get the bespin one by running bzr diff -r20..21
[14:13]  * smarter takes a deep breath before pushing the send button of his MOTU Application :)
[14:14] <jtechidna> apachelogger: ^ lol
[14:14] <smarter> jtechidna: hey
[14:14] <smarter> how is it going?
[14:14] <jtechidna> hi
[14:15] <jtechidna> pretty good, school's back but I'm managing
[14:16] <smarter> same for me
[14:16] <smarter> well, I've some problem with the managing part :]
[14:18] <jtechidna> hehe
[14:30]  * smarter off to school
[14:33] <Riddell> well, upgrading from hardy KDE 3 worked
[14:33] <jjesse> yay
[14:35] <Hobbsee> always a good start.
[14:35] <Riddell> also knetworkmanager is just as broken in suse's beta as it is in intrepid
[14:36] <jjesse> agreed, tried it the other day and it doesn't work correctly in my vm at all
[14:36] <jjesse> for open suse
[14:52] <Riddell> rgreening: desktop-effects-kde uploaded
[14:53] <rgreening> kool.
[14:53] <rgreening> only for intrepid right? cause it would break under hardy without the install-package being available/installed.
[14:54] <Riddell> sure
[14:54] <rgreening> :P
[14:55] <rgreening> I feel like a McDonald's commercial "I'm Lovin' it".
[15:01] <apachelogger> oh
[15:01] <apachelogger> uh
[15:01] <apachelogger> jtechidna: I absolutely don't agree on closing kpdf bugs
[15:01] <jtechidna> eh?
[15:01] <apachelogger> IIRC recent versions of kpdf were using poppler
[15:02] <apachelogger> so assuming a lot of the issues are actually in the backend anyway closing doesn't make sense here
[15:02] <apachelogger> besides, okular relies on the same basis anyway I think
[15:02] <jtechidna> well, they were caused by patches to kpdf, apparently
[15:03] <jtechidna> or so sez upstream
[15:04] <apachelogger> jtechidna: upstream used to be grumpy because of the amount of bugs in it's product ;-)
[15:05] <jtechidna> hehe, I saw from the bug reports
[15:06] <apachelogger> it's your call anyway, I am just suggesting that an investigation probably makes sense because all the floss pdf readers relay on the same basis one way or another
[15:06] <jtechidna> I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask if it was still happening in Intrepid
[15:07] <jtechidna> Hmm, I think we should steal Opensuse's patches for panel autohiding and kwin cube
[15:07] <apachelogger> no
[15:07] <apachelogger> they both don't have QA
[15:08] <apachelogger> we really can't include fancy stuff we don't get the basics right *cough* kaffeine *cough*
[15:08] <jtechidna> hmm, your opinion of kaffine is "special" right?
[15:09] <apachelogger> yes, but that is unrelated to my opinion on how the codec installer problem was handled
[15:09] <jtechidna> oh yeah, we did have a codec installer. I bet that doesn't work with install-package
[15:09] <apachelogger> I fixed it
[15:09] <apachelogger> jtechidna: didn't you know?
[15:09] <apachelogger> that thing was looping
[15:10]  * jtechidna never really used kaffine
[15:10] <apachelogger> for every file it couldn't play with libxine1-ffmpeg
[15:10] <apachelogger> for > half a year
[15:10] <jtechidna> oh, I always install that package right off the bat
[15:10] <apachelogger> well, the installer will still kick in
[15:11] <jtechidna> heh
[15:11]  * apachelogger notes that it should just have been more like the amarok implimentation
[15:11] <apachelogger> anyway
[15:11] <apachelogger> jtechidna: I think you should raise the firefox dependency bug's importance to high
[15:11] <jtechidna> apachelogger: you mean the bug I just set to medium?
[15:11] <apachelogger> yus
[15:12] <apachelogger> it installs duplications without the users agreement
[15:12] <apachelogger> it pulls in software-props-gtk, we have -kde
[15:12] <apachelogger> it installs gksu, we have kdesudo
[15:12] <apachelogger> ...
[15:12] <apachelogger> jtechidna: we could also just ship 2 kinds of software by default :P
[15:12]  * apachelogger goes dinnering
[15:13] <jtechidna> :P
[15:13] <jtechidna> hmm, about time to exercise the dog
[16:00] <jtechidna> hrm
[16:00] <jtechidna> win: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Oxygen+Reloaded?content=90031
[16:05] <apachelogger> mac: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Oxygen+System+Monitor?content=86664
[16:06] <apachelogger> oh they haz made an own category for binary plasmoids
[16:06] <apachelogger> how very very sweet
[16:06] <jtechidna> that doesn't stop people from posting .skz as scripted plasmoids, \o/
[16:06] <apachelogger> oh
[16:06] <apachelogger> neato
[16:06] <apachelogger> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Crystal+Monitor?content=28165
[16:06] <Riddell> smarter: kepas FFe is fine with me, got the files to upload?
[16:07]  * apachelogger logs in beats the uplaod and moves the file away
[16:07] <vorian> sigmadock
[16:07] <vorian> werd
[16:07] <jtechidna> oh hai
[16:08] <vorian> hullo
[16:09] <apachelogger> jtechidna: meh, now it is empty
[16:09]  * apachelogger moves one krama thingy back so that people can complain
[16:09] <apachelogger> hm
[16:09] <apachelogger> superkarma
[16:09] <apachelogger> omg
[16:09] <apachelogger> vorian: 4.1.1 cd?
[16:10] <vorian> yeah yeah
[16:10] <vorian> 704mb
[16:11] <apachelogger> vorian: is that still too big?
[16:11] <vorian> yes
[16:11] <apachelogger> meh
[16:11] <vorian> just by a pinch
[16:11] <apachelogger> vorian: did you remove the oxygen svgs?
[16:11] <vorian> i can remove wubi and get it smaller
[16:11] <vorian> yes
[16:11] <apachelogger> hmmmm
[16:11] <apachelogger> does amd64 use more space?
[16:11] <vorian> i am actually working on it now
[16:12] <vorian> it shouldn't
[16:12] <vorian> the original cd is only 686.9mb
[16:15] <apachelogger> vorian: drop some random kde4 package
[16:15] <apachelogger> :P
[16:15] <vorian> haha
[16:44] <smarter> Riddell: kepas is available on https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kepas/ubuntu and I attached a debdiff to the bug report
[16:45] <Riddell> smarter: but I still need the new .orig
[16:45] <Riddell> or an instruction on how to get it
[16:45] <smarter> Riddell: right, sorry, debian/rules get-orig-svn
[16:46] <apachelogger> oh
[16:46] <apachelogger> no
[16:46] <apachelogger> !
[16:46] <apachelogger> smarter: you need to post the tarball
[16:46] <smarter> heya apachelogger
[16:46] <apachelogger> get-orig-svn would fetch today's svn, wouldn't it? ;-)
[16:46] <smarter> okay
[16:46] <smarter> yep
[16:46] <smarter> but I modified the package today ;)
[16:47] <apachelogger> then it doesn't matter I guess
[16:47] <apachelogger> jtechidna: go tell the motu council about your nice colleague!
[16:49] <smarter> Riddell: I attached everything to the bug report
[16:52] <Riddell> apachelogger: shouldn't powerdevil package be called plasmoid-powerdevil?
[16:53] <apachelogger> Riddell: it doesn't have a plasmoid
[16:53] <apachelogger> powerdevil is a kded module
[16:53] <apachelogger> with kcm
[16:53] <apachelogger> the plasmoid is only available in trunk
[16:53] <Riddell> so what does it do currently?
[16:57] <apachelogger> Riddell: power saving. the kded modules gets loaded and will act like guidance-power-manager just on a more advanced level, based on user-definable profiles, all configurable via the systemsettings
[16:57] <Riddell> smarter: hmm, I just ran kepas, started a server and opened the monitor window, closing the monitor window killed plasma
[16:57] <apachelogger> Riddell: I suggest installing it and taking a look at the kcm
[16:58] <apachelogger> pretty self-explaining
[17:00] <smarter> Riddell: ouch, you're right, I only tested this feature using the tray icon
[17:00] <smarter> X Error: BadWindow (invalid Window parameter) 3
[17:01] <smarter> yeah for X errors
[17:01] <Riddell> I don't think that's the error
[17:01] <smarter> that's the only output I get which seems related
[17:01] <smarter> do you have something better?
[17:02] <Riddell> I don't get an apport trace
[17:02] <Riddell> try starting plasma in gdb maybe
[17:02]  * smarter install -dbg things
[17:04] <Riddell> smarter: hmm, "Program exited normally." so it's a crash that isn't a crash
[17:04] <Riddell> or something
[17:05] <Riddell> you need to run  set args --nofork  in gdb incidently
[17:05] <Nightrose> apachelogger: do you have time to join #a.dev? eean commited the mysqle stuff and it looks like it will stay for beta 2 (tagging in two days)
[17:05] <Nightrose> and the default mysqle is not compiled with the right flag
[17:06] <apachelogger> I am flattering smarter right now -.-
[17:06]  * apachelogger saves as draft and joins the a channel
[17:07] <smarter> :]
[17:13] <vorian> apachelogger: people are just going to have to live with a 704mb iso
[17:13] <apachelogger> vorian: can't you drop some package?
[17:13] <vorian> not really
[17:13] <apachelogger> vorian: kubuntu-docs is alredy removed?
[17:14] <apachelogger> khelpcenter should be removable as well
[17:14] <vorian> blarg
[17:14] <vorian> haha
[17:14] <vorian> whoa
[17:14] <vorian> i really messed it up this time
[17:14] <vorian> 99.8 mb
[17:15] <Riddell> vorian: what are you doing?
[17:15] <vorian> Riddell: updating the 8.04.1 remix cd for amd64
[17:17] <vorian> http://kubuntu.vorian.org/kubuntu-kde4.1.1-8.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso
[17:17] <vorian> that's the iso, but it's 704mb
[17:19] <yuriy> apachelogger: sure, now that I can
[17:19] <apachelogger> yuriy: normal users can't?
[17:22] <yuriy> apachelogger: nope. bugs.kde.org doesn't give you much privs by default
[17:22] <apachelogger> lame
[17:22]  * apachelogger wasn't a regular user for long, so he can't tell :P
[17:23] <yuriy> bluezahl gave me privileges a couple weeks back after "you have an svn account but no bugzilla privs!?"
[17:25] <apachelogger> hehe
[17:27]  * apachelogger thinks yuriy could also mail the motu council about smarter's astonishing qualification for motu...
[17:28]  * smarter would like some b.k.o powa to add Kvkbd
[17:29] <Riddell> smarter: is kvkbd in KDE's svn?
[17:29] <smarter> yes
[17:30] <smarter> still in playground/utils
[17:30] <apachelogger> should go extragear IMHO
[17:31] <apachelogger> then again extragear might be obsolete with git anyway :P
[17:32] <smarter> apachelogger: it needs to go throught kdereview first, it would take some times
[17:32] <smarter> and I'm going to transform it into a plasmoid after 0.6 release
[17:33] <apachelogger> ah, cool
[17:33] <apachelogger> plasmoids ftw
[17:33]  * apachelogger proof reads
[17:33] <Riddell> smarter: added
[17:33] <smarter> thanks ;)
[17:34] <apachelogger> smarter: mail sent
[17:35] <smarter> thanks too :)
[17:37] <vorian> smarter: good luck :
[17:37] <vorian> )
[17:39] <Riddell> 4.1.2 tagging tomorrow, who's up for some packaging?
[17:41] <vorian> w00t
[17:41] <nixternal> I just noticed the printer stuff in System Settings is missing (Hardy)...what is the trick?
[17:42] <nixternal> I haven't used a printer in so long I am lost :)
[17:44] <Riddell> printer stuff?
[17:44] <Riddell> in KDE 3 it should be there
[17:44] <Riddell> in KDE 4 printer-applet should pop up when you add a printer
[17:44] <nixternal> KDE4
[17:44] <nixternal> it is a network printer
[17:44] <Riddell> system-config-printer-kde has some global cups settings, otherwise use gnome's system-config-printer
[17:44] <bdgraue> i use always localhost:631
[17:44] <nixternal> gotcha
[17:46] <apachelogger> Riddell: tomorrow already
[17:47] <apachelogger> oh my
[17:48] <Riddell> hmm, we seem to still have a Zoom In button in plasma, do we want that?
[17:49] <Riddell> did we decide about changing KDE branding in kickoff top right to kubuntu?
[17:49] <apachelogger> didn't decide
[17:50] <apachelogger> we just need a graphic I guess
[17:50] <apachelogger> and we should re-remove the zoom buttons
[17:54] <jtechidna> omg
[17:54] <jtechidna> didn't we just package 4.1.1?
[17:55] <apachelogger> *nod*
[17:55] <apachelogger> stupid monthly release cycle :P
[17:55] <apachelogger> jtechidna: write something nice about smarter
[17:55] <jtechidna> oh, ya, almost forgot
[17:56] <jtechidna> hmm, what list?
[17:56] <apachelogger> motu-council
[17:56]  * apachelogger needs to backport powerdevil to the kde4 ppa
[17:58] <jtechidna> hmm, what's the address?
[17:58] <nixternal> anyone here feel like writing some SNMP MIBs for me?
[17:58] <smarter> jtechidna:
[17:59] <smarter> motu-council@lists.ubuntu.com
[17:59] <smarter> motu-council@lists.ubuntu.com
[17:59] <smarter> oops, connection problem
[17:59] <jtechidna> hehe
[18:00] <Tm_T> ERP!
[18:01] <Tm_T> this translation issue is known? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2008-September/001676.html
[18:01] <apachelogger> Riddell: ^
[18:01] <smarter> yep, and I hate that
[18:01] <smarter> half-translated apps are no fun
[18:02]  * apachelogger hates rosetta
[18:16] <apachelogger> powerdevil on the way to the kde4 ppa
[18:28] <rgreening> apachelogger: how does the Qt ver of Firefox look/behave?
[18:29] <apachelogger> like the broken stuff it is
[18:51] <jussi01> apachelogger: for hardy also?
[18:51] <apachelogger> jussi01: what?
[18:52] <jussi01> (re. powerdevil)
[19:06] <Arby> can anyone tell me if bug 194416 is actually a bug or if it's supposed to be like that?
[19:06] <Arby> sounds like a wishlist but not sure
[19:25] <apachelogger> jussi01: only that
[19:25] <apachelogger> jussi01: intrepid is already in official repos
[19:26] <apachelogger> Arby: I don't think it's much of our problem if users press random key combinations because they are bored ;-)
[19:26] <apachelogger> Arby: either close as won't fix and send the reporter to bugs.kde.org or wishlist and forward the report to bugs.kde.org
[19:27] <apachelogger> if upstream won't fixes it, we have all the more reason to do the same ;-)
[19:28] <Arby> I'll wishlist and send them to upstream then, I haven't got a won't fix option
[19:28] <Arby> only invalid
[19:28] <apachelogger> jtechidna: bug 273667
[19:28]  * apachelogger doesn't like screensavers
[19:28]  * apachelogger doesn't like the available screensavers
[19:29]  * apachelogger doesn't like bad screensavers by default, which leads him to a won't fix attitude
[19:29] <Arby> bah, can somebody set wish list for me, I can't
[19:29] <Arby> really must get that fixed
[19:29] <jtechidna> let's make a Klippy screensaver
[19:29] <apachelogger> Arby: done
[19:29] <jtechidna> pink neon lights
[19:29] <Arby> thanks
[19:30] <apachelogger> jtechidna: I like the vista one
[19:30]  * jtechidna hasn't seen it
[19:30] <apachelogger> basically like the xp one :P
[19:30] <apachelogger> which is like the 2k one
[19:30]  * jtechidna forgot what the default screensaver for those was too
[19:30] <apachelogger> well
[19:31] <apachelogger> the windows logo
[19:31] <apachelogger> floating aroudnt eh screen
[19:31] <jtechidna> we should use a marble kpart
[19:31] <jtechidna> \o/
[19:31] <apachelogger> only that in vista it fades in and out and fades in at a differen location ....
[19:31] <apachelogger> it provides good branding
[19:31] <apachelogger> and the fading looks pretty decent
[19:40] <Arby> apachelogger: is kdepim-dbg the right package for kpilot crash debugging symbols?
[19:47] <Lex79> apachelogger: http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/KDE+Partition+Manager?content=89595
[19:47] <Lex79> :) nice
[19:57] <Riddell> apachelogger: goodness.  do you know if there's a bug for that translation issue?
[20:04] <apachelogger> Riddell: no.
[20:04] <apachelogger> jtechidna: do you know of a bug about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-translators/2008-September/001676.html
[20:05] <Riddell> I don't know what it would be reported on anyway, I think a grump e-mail to the rosetta developers would be best
[20:05] <jtechidna> there have been several reports about sparse translation
[20:06] <jtechidna> I didn't know it was so serious a problem though...
[20:06] <jtechidna> bug 271849
[20:07]  * apachelogger is having a nervous breakdown soon
[20:07] <jtechidna> bug 269179
[20:07] <apachelogger> it's difficult enough to deploy a reasonable quality :/
[20:08] <apachelogger> Lex79: I like ... a lot
[20:09] <apachelogger> Arby: yes, kdepim-kde4-dbg in hardy I guess
[20:09] <Arby> thanks
[20:09] <jtechidna> so what's the issue, don't the l10n files contain all the upstream translations?
[20:10] <Lex79> apachelogger: It would be nice in systemsettings.... as kgrubeditor
[20:10] <apachelogger> Lex79: you should get in touch with the developer and suggest a cooperation with us, ask him if he'd like to attend a meeting
[20:12] <Lex79> yep
[20:12] <apachelogger> jtechidna: from what I understand: when the package gets built on the buildd it also creates a .pot file which gets imported into rosetta, then ubuntu pulls the actually language packs from rosetta
[20:13] <jtechidna> that's stupid, Ubuntu should just coperate with upstream if it wants better translations
[20:15] <Riddell> it's not as simple as that, upstream is dozens or hundreds of projects including some with very poor transltion infrastructure and some with only very geeky translation infrastructure (like KDE using SVN)
[20:16] <Riddell> we also change and add our own strings and applications
[20:16] <Riddell> as all distros do
[20:17]  * jtechidna doesn't know much about translations...
[20:18]  * Arby finishes reading the e-mail
[20:18] <Arby> that's ... not good
[20:21] <apachelogger> Riddell: I think KDE could be interested in rosetta, once it's FLOSS and got more reasonable QA
[20:44] <Lex79> bug 269179
[20:44] <Lex79> same issue for italian language
[20:45] <smarter> same issue for *every* language
[20:45] <smarter> except english ;)
[20:45] <Lex79> uhm
[20:45] <Lex79> :) LoL
[20:46]  * Lex79 is away: Per ora assente
[20:46] <apachelogger> Lex79: turn off global away messages
[20:47] <apachelogger> Lex79: do you package partitionman?
[20:54] <apachelogger> dpkg-deb: building package `partitionmanager' in `../partitionmanager_1.0.0~alpha1-0ubuntu1_i386.deb'.
[20:55] <apachelogger> too late I guess :P
[21:11] <apachelogger> Lex79: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members-kde4/partitionman/ubuntu
[21:11] <smarter> -kde4?
[21:11] <apachelogger> vorian: please poke once the new CD is up
[21:12] <apachelogger> smarter: oh, that is indeed truely wrong :P
[21:12] <smarter> :)
[21:12] <apachelogger> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/partitionman/ubuntu
[21:12]  * apachelogger had problems with reading today
[21:12] <apachelogger> I probably need a break
[21:31] <Arby> what's the best course of action for bug 246244 ?
[21:32] <Arby> basically seems to be that kmail and knetwork manager don't play nice together
[21:36] <apachelogger> Arby: I think solid should take care of this really
[21:37] <Arby> so the longer term solution is that knetworkmanager goes away and solid handles all the kmail --> network status interaction?
[21:38] <Arby> so what do I do with that bug, close, ignore, reassign to a different package.
[21:38] <Arby> ?
[21:40] <Arby> 233910 is another good one
[21:40] <Arby> kind of hard to reproduce
[21:41] <Arby> kmail seems to be odd like that, some people have a nightmare with it, it's always been rock solid for me
[21:43] <Arby> while I'm at it, apachelogger, should bug 228214 just go straight upstream?
[21:44] <apachelogger> Arby: knetworkmanager can stick around
[21:44] <apachelogger> solid is talking to networkmanager
[21:44] <apachelogger> knetworkmanager as well
[21:44] <apachelogger> kmail talks to solid
[21:44] <apachelogger> so in a way kmail talks to networkmanager and knetworkmanager ;-)
[21:45] <Arby> ok, once I get below desktop level my knowledge is very weak
[21:45]  * rgreening say "latest knetworkmanager needs too much work to be useful for Intrepid and wireless"
[21:45] <Arby> frameworks and interprocess gubbins make my brain bleed
[21:49]  * Lex79 is back.
[21:49] <apachelogger> Lex79: turn off global back messages as well
[21:50] <Lex79> ok :)
[21:50] <Lex79> sorry
[21:50] <apachelogger> Lex79: https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-experimental/+archive I guess we need to determine which external tools are required
[21:50] <apachelogger> ...if you want to do that.... ;-)
[21:50] <Lex79> yes yes
[21:50] <jtechidna> apachelogger: why are we wanting to remove the zoom out button again?
[21:50] <Lex79> :)
[21:50] <apachelogger> jtechidna: definitely
[21:50] <jtechidna> why?
[21:51] <apachelogger> crashy
[21:51] <apachelogger> no real functionality
[21:51] <apachelogger> no predefined other stuff
[21:51] <apachelogger> not even wallpaper
[21:51]  * jtechidna wants containment/virtual desktop affinity
[21:52] <apachelogger> couple of issues (in some cases the containments are on top of each other)
[21:52] <jtechidna> in 4.1.1?
[21:52] <apachelogger> yes
[21:52] <apachelogger> the cashew is still scaling with the containment
[21:53] <apachelogger> upon crashes plasmas sometimes adds new containments which also are on top of each other
[21:53] <apachelogger> ....
[21:53] <jtechidna> hmm, I'm not getting all of that
[21:53] <apachelogger> well
[21:53] <apachelogger> one is already too much
[21:53] <apachelogger> jtechidna: checkout the new batcave header
[21:53] <apachelogger> uber sweet I say
[21:53] <goatsocks> don't disable the feature outright... just relabel the "zoom out" button to "don't click this"
[21:53] <jtechidna> yeah, I saw it
[21:53] <jtechidna> lol
[21:54] <goatsocks> that way when people click it and file bugs you can automatically close them
[21:54] <jtechidna> well, removing it would stop bug reports in the first place
[21:54] <apachelogger> big time saver
[21:54] <apachelogger> then again
[21:55] <apachelogger> reporting a bug about it would require the possibility to zoom back in
[21:55] <apachelogger> I imagine some people might have problems with that
[21:55] <goatsocks> is removing upstream features a nice thing to do though? i mean, how much "KDE" is a Kubuntu user getting when they decide they want KDE as a desktop? certainly removing features is not what upstream intended
[21:55] <apachelogger> goatsocks: it's not a feature
[21:55] <goatsocks> upstream ships it
[21:56] <apachelogger> it's a big annoyance aseigo just doesn't want to remove despite the fac that it is useless, confusing and dangerous
[21:56] <goatsocks> just as they shipped 4.0 with a ton of half-finished features
[21:56] <goatsocks> i agree they made a bad decision
[21:56] <Arby> apachelogger: did you move the batcave? my bookmarks seem to be broken
[21:56] <jtechidna> It'll be useful in 4.2 if containment -> virutal desktop mapping gets in
[21:56] <goatsocks> i'm just wondering about the purity of Kubuntu's KDE distribution... where do you draw the line with modifications?
[21:56] <jtechidna> Arby: yes, the location was revealed in an emergency upload session so we had to change it
[21:57] <Arby> ah I see
[21:57] <apachelogger> maybe we should get a batlist?
[21:57] <jtechidna> yet another mailing list?
[21:57] <goatsocks> surely you'll reach a point where you've made so many modifications to the expected behavior of upstream that users will be filing bugs on that too
[21:58] <apachelogger> jtechidna: well, it certainly improves in-between-release communication
[21:58] <apachelogger> goatsocks: doubtable, still then we can close it as wont fix :P
[21:58] <apachelogger> that is basically what suse does
[21:59] <goatsocks> heh well suse is a known KDE-perverter
[21:59] <jtechidna> heh, the power of wont fix
[21:59] <apachelogger> suse is a patch perverter
[21:59] <goatsocks> when you install suse, you know you're getting something upstream never intended ;)
[21:59] <jtechidna> they killed their initial 4.1.1 packages with a feature backport from trunk
[21:59] <jtechidna> well, they killed compositing
[21:59] <apachelogger> hm
[21:59] <apachelogger> goatsocks: same with kubuntu
[22:00] <apachelogger> I doubt KDE ever intended the desktop to work :P
[22:00] <jtechidna> but everybody knows compositing is next to clocks in importance
[22:00] <apachelogger> clocks \o/
[22:00] <Riddell> jtechidna: killed compositing?
[22:00] <goatsocks> but i'm wondering about this, because i have a bunch of patches here to remove CSS prioritizing of MS fonts from KDE packages, and i wonder if that goes too far in subverting upstream
[22:01] <jtechidna> Riddell: with their first packages they backported the untested self-composite-check feature from trunk
[22:01] <apachelogger> goatsocks: that goes too far in subverting the websites really
[22:01] <jtechidna> Riddell: the test always failed, preventing compositing from working
[22:01] <Riddell> jtechidna: to be fair, suse also implemented compositing in KDE
[22:01] <apachelogger> jtechidna: well, we uploaded a wrong kdelibs :P
[22:01] <Riddell> so it's theirs to break you could say :)
[22:01] <goatsocks> apachelogger: these stylesheets are for apps actually, some of them are served via web interfaces
[22:02] <jtechidna> ya, but we're talking about patch perversion
[22:02] <apachelogger> goatsocks: oh well, they are patches :P
[22:02] <jtechidna> btw, how did you get a 4.1.0 tarball with a 4.1.1 name anywayz? :P
[22:02] <apachelogger> goatsocks: send them upstream
[22:02] <goatsocks> goatsocks: not just CSS though, also for rc files
[22:02] <goatsocks> and why am i talking to myself
[22:02]  * jtechidna does that from time to time^
[22:02] <rgreening> It's really4.1.1 not just 4.1.1
[22:03]  * rgreening lends goatsocks an ear
[22:03] <apachelogger> jtechidna: kde got bz2 tarballs :P
[22:03] <jtechidna> ah, that'd do it
[22:03] <jtechidna> is there a batgz script yet?
[22:04] <apachelogger> me@apoc { ~/src/bzr/batscripts }$ ls | grep orig
[22:04] <apachelogger> batgetorig
[22:04]  * apachelogger should commit it before it gets lost
[22:05] <jtechidna> ooh, pizza
[22:05] <Arby> apachelogger: we definitely need batlist, so I can ask questions about what all the batscripts actually do :)
[22:05] <apachelogger> lol
[22:06] <apachelogger> Arby: feel free to find out and write a README :P
[22:06] <Arby> ok
[22:07]  * Arby plays the 'running random code' game
[22:23] <jtechidna> d00d
[22:23] <jtechidna> nixternal is the only non-european motu-council member
[22:48] <rgreening> Riddell: kdelibs5 patch (launchpad integration) completed... will fwd the debdiff shortly
[22:57] <rgreening> Riddell: debdiff sent for your build/upload pleasure