* ogra-Q1 waves from the first working Q1 live session00:54
ogra-Q1...finally bed time for me00:55
ian_brasilcgregan: someone mentioned that you had been looking at specific user profiles and what applications they might use..is there anything public you can point me to about this?02:19
cgreganian_brasil: I was attempting to gather info to create a resource for this information for testing. Unfortunately, I ran into the same issue you seem to have....lack of public data.02:22
ian_brasilcgregan: ok np02:23
cgreganian_brasil: If you would like to set up a wiki page, I would be happy to drop in info as I collect it02:23
cgreganWe could try to gather people to add as we go02:24
ian_brasilyes, i can do that02:24
cgreganian_brasil: Excellent02:24
cgreganian_brasil: please email me a link when you do: cgregan@ubuntu.com02:24
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persiaian_brasil: Are you looking to build a list of things for which people use these devices generally, or a specific set of test cases?03:09
* persia has lots of use cases, and wouldn't mind adding to a list03:09
ian_brasili am trying to 'market segment' the MID market and work out what needs to be done to target each specific segment03:13
ian_brasillike for example the primary factor driving the adoption of mobile devices in corporate settings is security. 03:14
ian_brasilso ecryptfs-setup-private makes sense03:14
ian_brasili found some marketing report which identified some segments03:15
* ian_brasil does not know what all these are yet03:16
ian_brasilMultimedia Enthusiasts, Gen Y Social Networkers, Younger Gamers, Soccer Moms, Lifestyle Boomers, Adventurers, Frugal Generalists, and Business Application Users. 03:16
StevenKGen Y Social Networkers == people who live on Facebook03:16
ian_brasilStevenK: cool, that was one i didn't know03:17
persiaI'd add public transportation users to that list.  The most common application for tiny (2-3.5"), very small (4-6"), and small (7-9") computers here is for email, light gaming, and reading books on the trains.03:20
ian_brasilpersia: excellent, no one here does that because of security but I imagine that is a very common use03:23
persiaian_brasil: That's just a matter of market penetration.  Here, it's well over 90% for the 2-3.5" range, with over 100% in metropolitan areas (many people carry two).03:24
persiafor 4-6" and 7-9" the numbers are smaller: I'd say somewhere in the 5-10% range for each, but that's a bit of a guess.  Generally about 1 in 50 people is actively using a larger device on the train (the Nintendo DS is definitely the market leader)03:25
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cgreganStevenK: ping04:56
StevenKYay, drive-by ping05:06
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ograStevenK, lool, to enable task generation, we need the header in the seed, need to use the ^ sign in the livecd.sh script and need to trigger the soyuz team to enable task generation from the seed headers, i asked cjwatson to do that for mobile already, bt i think we should do it for mid as well09:45
StevenKIE: ubuntu-mid^ as a task?09:46
ograto avoid surprises through recommends09:46
* lool is happy with a task09:47
ograi'll talk to colin if he's back 09:48
StevenKI don't think anything else does that, though09:48
ograStevenK, define "anything else"09:48
StevenKIn livecd-rootfs. It seems it does, and I can't read.09:49
ograah, you mean any other seed/metapackage :)09:49
StevenKogra: Sort it out, and hammer me to fix livecd-rootfs and I'll upload it09:49
ograyeah, its only a ^ :)09:50
ograbut a ^ that costed me a day to find ...09:51
ogra(i had blindly copied mid to mobile in livefs.sh for testing ... and ended up with a ton unwanted stuff )09:51
ograluckily colin saved me ... i would never have found it and was near filing  grave bug against apt :)09:52
ogra*a grave09:52
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ograhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/mobile/ ;)10:54
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loolStevenK: How big is the nautilus dep tree?11:39
StevenKlool: Well, I could probably tell you if my edit_image script didn't drop the changes and not update the image. :-)11:45
loolI should really push mine12:00
ograStevenK, do you have enough space inside the image ? 12:02
ograi mean the vfat12:02
ograelse use the grow_image script first12:02
StevenKogra: I grew the image by another 50MB first12:02
ograStevenK, btw i still dont understand how build-mobile-img works, it cant work with the original files created by livecd-rootfs, does infinity change the filenames (mainly does he strip the livefs. in the beginning) if he copies it over ? 12:06
ograi always have to mangle it a bit to make it work locally ... for autobuilds i need to understand how ${TYPE} is used12:08
ograwhich doesnt seem to be conform with the filenames i get from livecd-rootfs12:08
StevenKogra: Okay, so if you run livecd.sh locally, you get livecd.${TYPE}.*12:09
StevenKogra: If you run it on the buildds using BuildLiveCD, you get ${ARCH}.*12:09
StevenKbuild-mobile-img was written with the assumption of the latter, of course12:10
ogralivecd.ubuntu-mobile.squashfs would then become generic.squashfs for me ...12:10
ogranot sure that doesnt clash with the actual livecd image 12:10
StevenKNo, it would become i386.squashfs or lpia.squashfs12:11
ograright, but still, i assume the livecd uses the same name 12:11
ograsince we oth build for i386/generic12:11
ograthough likely only something infinity can solve anyway12:12
StevenKAfter this operation, 311MB of additional disk space will be used.12:22
StevenKlool: ^12:22
StevenKlool: 'apt-get install nautilus' in an edit-image session12:22
ograyou should probably grow the image by 150M then :)12:26
StevenKI didn't get an ENOSPC error last time, though12:28
StevenKogra: I'm also binning mobile-basic-flash and the entire Xul 1.8 stack12:28
ograwell, i'd give it more than it needs for safety reasons, check how much it grows in real and then do a second edit12:29
ograoh my, thats a lot of changes to get one more image in 12:32
Fenarioogra: ping12:33
ograFenario, yep12:34
Fenarioogra can you provide our team with a complete of all the packages you put in the CMPC 1.5 image?12:35
loolStevenK: Thanks for the info12:36
ograFenario, sure, its under http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ogra/cmpc/cmpc-gen1-installer/annotate/34?file_id=livecd.sh-20080428012938-h194unwuw3pk2f1y-9 i can extract the packagelist from there12:37
ogra"minimal^ standard^ edubuntu-desktop cheese classmate-initramfs classmate-artwork classmate-tools grub ttf-nafees kpdf kolourpaint thunderbird thunderbird-gnome-support 915resolution"12:37
Fenarioogra:can you do this and provide it to Alex K?12:37
ograFenario, where should i send it to ? 12:37
Fenarioogra:  thank you 12:37
ogradavidm, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/mobile/ ... i'll blog it as soon as we have the next (fixed seed) image ready12:38
* lool goes lunching12:42
Celtioreogra, can i try this image on aigo mid p8860 ?12:49
ograCeltiore, what CPU arch is that ? 12:50
ograits built for generic i386 12:50
ograshould work12:50
Celtiorei try12:50
ograi might build an lpia image as well in the future, the current test images will only be i386 though12:50
ogranote that the sidebar isnt in the current image yet ... 12:51
Celtiorethe 2 probs on aigo mid, are the wifi and touchscreen12:51
ograwifi should work ... 12:52
ograi doub the touchscreen will though12:52
Celtiorewifi we can put marvel driver, but touchscreen at this moment we can't find the idc touch 12:52
Celtiorewifi use the sd8686 marvel12:52
ograhmm, that might not be in the i386 kernel ... i see it in lpia12:53
ograCeltiore, a good attempt would probably to ask in #ubuntu-kernel if sd8686 marvel can be included by default in the -generic kernel package ... seems teher is no prob to have it in lpia so it should be possible to have it by default in -generic as well12:58
Celtiorethanks you12:59
StevenKlool: Right, adding nautilus grows the squashfs by 50MB13:10
Celtioreogra: i have "Boot error" message ?!13:34
ograoh ?13:34
ograwhats the exact error ? 13:34
Celtiore"Boot error"13:35
ograthats all ? 13:35
Celtiorei retry the dd13:35
ogranothing more ? 13:35
ograit boots fine here on my Q113:36
Celtioreogra, first DD was wrong13:53
Celtiorebooting now correctly13:53
ogralets see how the touchscreen and wlan behave 13:56
Celtioreerror with graphics devices14:01
persiaWhat graphics HW does the Aigo have?14:02
Celtioredon't know :p14:03
loolDid anyone try to use usb-creator?14:04
loolWe should make sure it supports our images14:04
ograit cant14:04
loolWould stop people from using dd  :-P14:04
ograit needs isos14:04
ograand you still need dd14:05
ograit just creates dd'able images from ubuntu isos14:05
ograthat boot from usb14:05
loologra: At some point I suggested you discuss with Evan the merge of your two tools; did he get a chance to look at your stuff?14:05
persiausb creator needs usb imagewriter, but that didn't get enough attention for intrepid.14:05
ogralool, he said he would take a look if he finds time 14:06
loolOk, thanks14:06
ograbut i doubt that has happened yet14:06
persiaogra: Are there 2D poulsbo drivers for i386?  Alternately, does your image require 3D?14:06
ograand imagewriter needs some love still14:06
ograpersia, it uses gnome ... it will use compiz if possible and fall back to metacity if tehere is no GL support, just like the ubuntu desktop14:07
persiaThen I suspect the 2F poulsbo driver is not working for i386, and so Aigo MID users need lpia.14:08
ograyeah, might be14:08
ograthough i386 has a psb driver in xorg14:09
ograogra@osiris:/var/build/mobile$ dpkg -l|grep psb14:09
ograii  xserver-xorg-video-psb                     0.2.1-1ubuntu3                        2D graphics driver for Poulsbo14:09
persiaCeltiore: Could you paste your /var/log/Xorg.log ?  I suspect there's something odd happening.14:09
ograthe last few lines should suffice14:10
Celtiorepersia: Poulsbo with 3D graphics, HD video playback (720p and 1080i content) and memory controller14:10
Celtioreyes ogra 14:10
Celtiorei need to reboot and put usb keyboard14:10
ograi suspect its not rebuilt against xorg 1.5 yet14:10
Celtioreaigo specs: http://umpchouse.com/aigospecs.php14:10
persiaCeltiore: I don't think there are working 3D poulsbo drivers X 1.5.14:10
ograoh, 4.8" 800x480 ? 14:11
ograthat will get hairy with the mobile image ... 14:11
Celtiorei have a box with :14:11
Celtiorehow would you like to reconfigure your display :14:11
persiaogra: It's worth a shot :)14:11
Celtioreuse default14:11
Celtiorecreate new configuration14:11
Celtioreuse your backed-up configguration14:12
ograpersia, well, but you will definately need a pen :)14:12
ograCeltiore, try default (guessing that will be vesa though)14:12
persiaogra: Yep.  It's a MID (although fairly low DPI for a MID) :)14:13
ograiÄm pretty sure you'll have a god bunch of ap probs though14:14
ograthey are not designed for 48014:14
Celtioreogra, do nothing14:17
ogradoes it get you back to the config dialog ? 14:19
Celtiore2mins i have log errors14:23
ograha ! the Q1 touchpad isnt as bad as i thought ... just needs some love in the config http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/mobile/xournal-shot.png14:26
ian_brasilogra: ha ha ...cool!14:33
ograian_brasil, seen that ? http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/mobile/14:33
ian_brasilyes..iam downloading now14:34
ogra(the image hasnt the sidebar yet though... next build will)14:34
ograand it has only configuration for the egalax touchscreen on the Q1 yet ... i havent receved other configs yet14:34
ian_brasili have a geode here ..i will try it on that14:36
Celtioreogra, if you have time can you read the logs ?14:36
ograCeltiore, hmm, the failsafe one should have used vesa and should have worked14:37
Celtiorejust to have the box for the error message :p14:38
ograif you click on configure and configure it with vesa, does it work ? 14:39
Celtiorejust ask me to restart14:40
ograseems it tries the intel driver for the psb ... you can also tyr to force psb for that14:40
ograseems it didnt detect that it needs psb14:40
Celtiorehow can i force ?14:40
ograCeltiore, edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf14:42
ograin: Section "Device"14:42
ograadd:         Driver          "psb"14:43
ograno guarantee that works though14:44
ograyou can try the same ith vesa instead of psb14:44
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* lool goes for a walk16:58
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ian_brasili thought desktop icons went in /usr/share/icons/hicolor19:59
* ian_brasil looks for freedesktop.org standards documentation19:59
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