[00:54] <ogra-Q1> yippie!!!!
[00:54]  * ogra-Q1 waves from the first working Q1 live session
[00:55] <ogra-Q1> ...finally bed time for me
[02:19] <ian_brasil> cgregan: someone mentioned that you had been looking at specific user profiles and what applications they might use..is there anything public you can point me to about this?
[02:22] <cgregan> ian_brasil: I was attempting to gather info to create a resource for this information for testing. Unfortunately, I ran into the same issue you seem to have....lack of public data.
[02:23] <ian_brasil> cgregan: ok np
[02:23] <cgregan> ian_brasil: If you would like to set up a wiki page, I would be happy to drop in info as I collect it
[02:24] <cgregan> We could try to gather people to add as we go
[02:24] <ian_brasil> yes, i can do that
[02:24] <cgregan> ian_brasil: Excellent
[02:24] <cgregan> ian_brasil: please email me a link when you do: cgregan@ubuntu.com
[02:25] <ian_brasil> ok
[03:09] <persia> ian_brasil: Are you looking to build a list of things for which people use these devices generally, or a specific set of test cases?
[03:09]  * persia has lots of use cases, and wouldn't mind adding to a list
[03:13] <ian_brasil> i am trying to 'market segment' the MID market and work out what needs to be done to target each specific segment
[03:14] <ian_brasil> like for example the primary factor driving the adoption of mobile devices in corporate settings is security. 
[03:14] <ian_brasil> so ecryptfs-setup-private makes sense
[03:15] <ian_brasil> i found some marketing report which identified some segments
[03:16]  * ian_brasil does not know what all these are yet
[03:16] <ian_brasil> Multimedia Enthusiasts, Gen Y Social Networkers, Younger Gamers, Soccer Moms, Lifestyle Boomers, Adventurers, Frugal Generalists, and Business Application Users. 
[03:16] <StevenK> Gen Y Social Networkers == people who live on Facebook
[03:17] <ian_brasil> StevenK: cool, that was one i didn't know
[03:20] <persia> I'd add public transportation users to that list.  The most common application for tiny (2-3.5"), very small (4-6"), and small (7-9") computers here is for email, light gaming, and reading books on the trains.
[03:23] <ian_brasil> persia: excellent, no one here does that because of security but I imagine that is a very common use
[03:24] <persia> ian_brasil: That's just a matter of market penetration.  Here, it's well over 90% for the 2-3.5" range, with over 100% in metropolitan areas (many people carry two).
[03:25] <persia> for 4-6" and 7-9" the numbers are smaller: I'd say somewhere in the 5-10% range for each, but that's a bit of a guess.  Generally about 1 in 50 people is actively using a larger device on the train (the Nintendo DS is definitely the market leader)
[04:56] <cgregan> StevenK: ping
[05:06] <StevenK> Yay, drive-by ping
[08:09] <lool> Hey
[09:45] <ogra> StevenK, lool, to enable task generation, we need the header in the seed, need to use the ^ sign in the livecd.sh script and need to trigger the soyuz team to enable task generation from the seed headers, i asked cjwatson to do that for mobile already, bt i think we should do it for mid as well
[09:46] <StevenK> IE: ubuntu-mid^ as a task?
[09:46] <ogra> right
[09:46] <ogra> to avoid surprises through recommends
[09:47]  * lool is happy with a task
[09:48] <ogra> i'll talk to colin if he's back 
[09:48] <StevenK> I don't think anything else does that, though
[09:48] <ogra> StevenK, define "anything else"
[09:49] <StevenK> In livecd-rootfs. It seems it does, and I can't read.
[09:49] <ogra> ah, you mean any other seed/metapackage :)
[09:49] <StevenK> ogra: Sort it out, and hammer me to fix livecd-rootfs and I'll upload it
[09:50] <ogra> yeah, its only a ^ :)
[09:51] <ogra> but a ^ that costed me a day to find ...
[09:51] <ogra> (i had blindly copied mid to mobile in livefs.sh for testing ... and ended up with a ton unwanted stuff )
[09:52] <ogra> luckily colin saved me ... i would never have found it and was near filing  grave bug against apt :)
[09:52] <ogra> *a grave
[10:54] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/mobile/ ;)
[11:39] <lool> StevenK: How big is the nautilus dep tree?
[11:45] <StevenK> lool: Well, I could probably tell you if my edit_image script didn't drop the changes and not update the image. :-)
[12:00] <lool> I should really push mine
[12:02] <ogra> StevenK, do you have enough space inside the image ? 
[12:02] <ogra> i mean the vfat
[12:02] <ogra> else use the grow_image script first
[12:02] <StevenK> ogra: I grew the image by another 50MB first
[12:03] <ogra> ah
[12:03] <ogra> hmm
[12:06] <ogra> StevenK, btw i still dont understand how build-mobile-img works, it cant work with the original files created by livecd-rootfs, does infinity change the filenames (mainly does he strip the livefs. in the beginning) if he copies it over ? 
[12:08] <ogra> i always have to mangle it a bit to make it work locally ... for autobuilds i need to understand how ${TYPE} is used
[12:08] <ogra> which doesnt seem to be conform with the filenames i get from livecd-rootfs
[12:09] <StevenK> ogra: Okay, so if you run livecd.sh locally, you get livecd.${TYPE}.*
[12:09] <StevenK> ogra: If you run it on the buildds using BuildLiveCD, you get ${ARCH}.*
[12:09] <ogra> ah
[12:09] <ogra> hmm
[12:10] <StevenK> build-mobile-img was written with the assumption of the latter, of course
[12:10] <ogra> livecd.ubuntu-mobile.squashfs would then become generic.squashfs for me ...
[12:10] <ogra> not sure that doesnt clash with the actual livecd image 
[12:11] <StevenK> No, it would become i386.squashfs or lpia.squashfs
[12:11] <ogra> right, but still, i assume the livecd uses the same name 
[12:11] <ogra> since we oth build for i386/generic
[12:11] <ogra> *both
[12:12] <ogra> though likely only something infinity can solve anyway
[12:22] <StevenK> After this operation, 311MB of additional disk space will be used.
[12:22] <StevenK> lool: ^
[12:22] <StevenK> lool: 'apt-get install nautilus' in an edit-image session
[12:26] <ogra> you should probably grow the image by 150M then :)
[12:28] <StevenK> I didn't get an ENOSPC error last time, though
[12:28] <StevenK> ogra: I'm also binning mobile-basic-flash and the entire Xul 1.8 stack
[12:29] <ogra> ah
[12:29] <ogra> well, i'd give it more than it needs for safety reasons, check how much it grows in real and then do a second edit
[12:32] <ogra> oh my, thats a lot of changes to get one more image in 
[12:33] <Fenario> ogra: ping
[12:34] <ogra> Fenario, yep
[12:35] <Fenario> ogra can you provide our team with a complete of all the packages you put in the CMPC 1.5 image?
[12:36] <lool> StevenK: Thanks for the info
[12:37] <ogra> Fenario, sure, its under http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ogra/cmpc/cmpc-gen1-installer/annotate/34?file_id=livecd.sh-20080428012938-h194unwuw3pk2f1y-9 i can extract the packagelist from there
[12:37] <ogra> "minimal^ standard^ edubuntu-desktop cheese classmate-initramfs classmate-artwork classmate-tools grub ttf-nafees kpdf kolourpaint thunderbird thunderbird-gnome-support 915resolution"
[12:37] <ogra> :)
[12:37] <Fenario> ogra:can you do this and provide it to Alex K?
[12:37] <ogra> Fenario, where should i send it to ? 
[12:37] <ogra> oki
[12:37] <Fenario> ogra:  thank you 
[12:38] <ogra> davidm, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/mobile/ ... i'll blog it as soon as we have the next (fixed seed) image ready
[12:42]  * lool goes lunching
[12:49] <Celtiore> hi
[12:49] <Celtiore> ogra, can i try this image on aigo mid p8860 ?
[12:50] <ogra> Celtiore, what CPU arch is that ? 
[12:50] <ogra> its built for generic i386 
[12:50] <Celtiore> atom
[12:50] <ogra> should work
[12:50] <Celtiore> ok
[12:50] <Celtiore> i try
[12:50] <ogra> i might build an lpia image as well in the future, the current test images will only be i386 though
[12:51] <ogra> note that the sidebar isnt in the current image yet ... 
[12:51] <Celtiore> the 2 probs on aigo mid, are the wifi and touchscreen
[12:52] <ogra> wifi should work ... 
[12:52] <ogra> i doub the touchscreen will though
[12:52] <Celtiore> wifi we can put marvel driver, but touchscreen at this moment we can't find the idc touch 
[12:52] <Celtiore> wifi use the sd8686 marvel
[12:53] <ogra> hmm, that might not be in the i386 kernel ... i see it in lpia
[12:58] <ogra> Celtiore, a good attempt would probably to ask in #ubuntu-kernel if sd8686 marvel can be included by default in the -generic kernel package ... seems teher is no prob to have it in lpia so it should be possible to have it by default in -generic as well
[12:59] <Celtiore> thanks you
[13:10] <StevenK> lool: Right, adding nautilus grows the squashfs by 50MB
[13:34] <Celtiore> ogra: i have "Boot error" message ?!
[13:34] <ogra> oh ?
[13:34] <ogra> whats the exact error ? 
[13:35] <Celtiore> "Boot error"
[13:35] <ogra> thats all ? 
[13:35] <Celtiore> i retry the dd
[13:35] <ogra> nothing more ? 
[13:35] <Celtiore> no
[13:35] <ogra> yeah
[13:36] <ogra> it boots fine here on my Q1
[13:53] <Celtiore> ogra, first DD was wrong
[13:53] <Celtiore> booting now correctly
[13:55] <ogra> good
[13:56] <ogra> lets see how the touchscreen and wlan behave 
[14:01] <Celtiore> error with graphics devices
[14:02] <persia> What graphics HW does the Aigo have?
[14:03] <Celtiore> don't know :p
[14:04] <lool> Did anyone try to use usb-creator?
[14:04] <lool> We should make sure it supports our images
[14:04] <ogra> it cant
[14:04] <lool> Would stop people from using dd  :-P
[14:04] <ogra> it needs isos
[14:05] <ogra> and you still need dd
[14:05] <ogra> it just creates dd'able images from ubuntu isos
[14:05] <ogra> that boot from usb
[14:05] <lool> ogra: At some point I suggested you discuss with Evan the merge of your two tools; did he get a chance to look at your stuff?
[14:05] <persia> usb creator needs usb imagewriter, but that didn't get enough attention for intrepid.
[14:06] <ogra> lool, he said he would take a look if he finds time 
[14:06] <lool> Ok, thanks
[14:06] <ogra> but i doubt that has happened yet
[14:06] <persia> ogra: Are there 2D poulsbo drivers for i386?  Alternately, does your image require 3D?
[14:06] <ogra> and imagewriter needs some love still
[14:07] <ogra> persia, it uses gnome ... it will use compiz if possible and fall back to metacity if tehere is no GL support, just like the ubuntu desktop
[14:08] <persia> Then I suspect the 2F poulsbo driver is not working for i386, and so Aigo MID users need lpia.
[14:08] <persia> s/F/D/
[14:08] <ogra> yeah, might be
[14:09] <ogra> though i386 has a psb driver in xorg
[14:09] <persia> Hrm.
[14:09] <ogra> ogra@osiris:/var/build/mobile$ dpkg -l|grep psb
[14:09] <ogra> ii  xserver-xorg-video-psb                     0.2.1-1ubuntu3                        2D graphics driver for Poulsbo
[14:09] <persia> Celtiore: Could you paste your /var/log/Xorg.log ?  I suspect there's something odd happening.
[14:10] <ogra> the last few lines should suffice
[14:10] <Celtiore> persia: Poulsbo with 3D graphics, HD video playback (720p and 1080i content) and memory controller
[14:10] <Celtiore> yes ogra 
[14:10] <Celtiore> i need to reboot and put usb keyboard
[14:10] <ogra> i suspect its not rebuilt against xorg 1.5 yet
[14:10] <Celtiore> aigo specs: http://umpchouse.com/aigospecs.php
[14:10] <persia> Celtiore: I don't think there are working 3D poulsbo drivers X 1.5.
[14:11] <ogra> oh, 4.8" 800x480 ? 
[14:11] <ogra> that will get hairy with the mobile image ... 
[14:11] <Celtiore> i have a box with :
[14:11] <Celtiore> how would you like to reconfigure your display :
[14:11] <persia> ogra: It's worth a shot :)
[14:11] <Celtiore> use default
[14:11] <Celtiore> create new configuration
[14:12] <Celtiore> use your backed-up configguration
[14:12] <ogra> persia, well, but you will definately need a pen :)
[14:12] <ogra> Celtiore, try default (guessing that will be vesa though)
[14:13] <persia> ogra: Yep.  It's a MID (although fairly low DPI for a MID) :)
[14:14] <ogra> iÄm pretty sure you'll have a god bunch of ap probs though
[14:14] <ogra> *good
[14:14] <ogra> they are not designed for 480
[14:17] <Celtiore> ogra, do nothing
[14:19] <ogra> does it get you back to the config dialog ? 
[14:23] <Celtiore> yes
[14:23] <Celtiore> 2mins i have log errors
[14:25] <Celtiore> http://public.celtiore.fr/test/
[14:26] <ogra> ha ! the Q1 touchpad isnt as bad as i thought ... just needs some love in the config http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/mobile/xournal-shot.png
[14:33] <ian_brasil> ogra: ha ha ...cool!
[14:33] <ogra> ian_brasil, seen that ? http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/mobile/
[14:34] <ian_brasil> yes..iam downloading now
[14:34] <ogra> (the image hasnt the sidebar yet though... next build will)
[14:34] <ogra> and it has only configuration for the egalax touchscreen on the Q1 yet ... i havent receved other configs yet
[14:35] <ogra> *recieved
[14:36] <ian_brasil> i have a geode here ..i will try it on that
[14:36] <Celtiore> ogra, if you have time can you read the logs ?
[14:37] <ogra> Celtiore, hmm, the failsafe one should have used vesa and should have worked
[14:38] <Celtiore> just to have the box for the error message :p
[14:39] <ogra> if you click on configure and configure it with vesa, does it work ? 
[14:40] <Celtiore> just ask me to restart
[14:40] <ogra> seems it tries the intel driver for the psb ... you can also tyr to force psb for that
[14:40] <ogra> *try
[14:40] <ogra> seems it didnt detect that it needs psb
[14:40] <Celtiore> how can i force ?
[14:42] <ogra> Celtiore, edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[14:42] <ogra> in: Section "Device"
[14:43] <ogra> add:         Driver          "psb"
[14:44] <Celtiore> ok
[14:44] <ogra> no guarantee that works though
[14:44] <ogra> you can try the same ith vesa instead of psb
[14:48] <Celtiore> ok
[16:58]  * lool goes for a walk
[19:59] <ian_brasil> i thought desktop icons went in /usr/share/icons/hicolor
[19:59]  * ian_brasil looks for freedesktop.org standards documentation