=== BugMaN1 is now known as BugMaN
=== Ng_ is now known as Ng
newz2000Hi everyone16:00
newz2000it's time to go on the start page16:00
Erik_Jnewz2000, currently we are very bussy that's why you didn't see more results.16:20
newz2000hola qense16:20
newz2000hey Erik_J16:20
newz2000I'm patient, I can wait. :-)16:21
newz2000Erik_J: just a warning, at the end of October we're going to change the homepage banner for the new release (as is tradition)16:21
newz2000probably by then you'll be to the paper-mockup stage, but just in case it may cause your testers to have a diff experience16:22
Erik_Jis there a bzr repo with the ubuntu website? I need a easy way to make prototypes16:30
newz2000Erik_J: no, the website uses a content management system16:30
Erik_Jmaking paper prototypes is boring and I have to do a lot of duplicate work16:30
newz2000Erik_J: you may just want to take screenshots of key pages and edit them in a graphics program16:31
newz2000you could then use image maps to make regions of the page clickable without actually writing a bunch of html16:31
Erik_JThat is the best solution I think17:16
omegamormegilwww.ubuntu.com > Get Involved link > Contribute section has nothing about helping with bugs or testing.  Are there plans to change that?  I keep hearing people talk about how more people need to get into iso testing and helping with bugs, and this seems like an obvious way to advertise.20:05
newz2000omegamormegil: good idea, I'm surprised its not there20:05
* newz2000 looks20:06
omegamormegilbugs is mentioned, but it's extremely non-helpful.20:06
newz2000that's true for a lot of our content atm20:06
omegamormegilin the developer section.  But that only links to developer documentation.20:06
newz2000content is my first priority for jaunty cycle20:06
omegamormegilJust throwing links to the relevant wiki pages in there would be awesome.20:07
newz2000I think that linking to the testing section is a good idea because it explains the testing process as well as how to report bugs20:07
newz2000btw, I don't think I've met you yet omegamormegil, are you involved in the community?20:08
omegamormegilmore or less.  I haven't done much on IRC before.  I try to help a tiny bit with bugs on launchpad, and I keep up with a few of the mailing lists.  I really don't have tons of spare time.  I would love to get more involved in a lot of different areas, but I find that there is a high learning curve.20:11
newz2000sure, well, I consider little things like this a big help, so I appreciate the feedback. ;-)20:11
omegamormegilOne of the things I'd like to get involved in, is the aforementioned high learning curve.  The biggest reason I've found that the curve exists, is that it's hard to find information relevant to getting started.  Also, much of the information available is hard to understand without lots of semi-related knowledge, and is daunting for a newbie.  I've been using Ubuntu for almost two years, and I'm still working on getti20:14
omegamormegilng anywhere understanding bug triage.  Time is the biggest issue for me20:14
newz2000is your plan to help modify the website content to make the process more clear?20:15
newz2000(I'm not trying to push you into something - just curious)20:16
omegamormegilThe website is the first place a lot of people are going to be looking when they are trying to find direction.  I think having the website point at easy to understand primers would be a great help.20:17
newz2000I agree wholeheartedly20:17
newz2000if you have some 2 min fixes you'd like to propose, dropping by here and letting me know is great20:17
newz2000if you think bigger changes are necessary I have a different suggestion20:18
newz2000(btw, I just updated http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate )20:19
newz2000fortunately there was a cool looking icon on the testing wiki page. :-)20:19
omegamormegilawesome.  That's been bugging me for years :)20:20
newz2000for more elaborate changes, I'm absolutely open to suggestions. Probably the best thing to do is create a page under http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website that has the suggested changes, then report it to the mailing list. We can then hash it out and copy the chagnes over to the main site.20:20
omegamormegilHey, I've been looking through some of the documentation, and noticed this page: http://www.ubuntu.com/community20:59
omegamormegilIt has some redundancy.  Perhaps it should be merged with http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate21:00
omegamormegilhttp://www.ubuntu.com/community links to Documentation and Support twice.21:00
newz2000yes, it does have some redundancy, but that's well beyond the threshold of "more elaborate changes" I think21:01
newz2000You can never have too many links to documentation and support. ;-)21:01
* newz2000 adds two more for good measure21:01
newz2000not to make lite of your comments, I'm happy to discuss ways to improve this, but probably the best way is to mock it up on the wiki and take it to the list21:02
newz2000you can create a page called https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/Content/Community21:03
newz2000and copy and paste in the content as you think it should be21:03
newz2000I wouldn't worry too much about formatting (it is a wiki - hard to format)21:04
omegamormegilOh, I understand.  I guess I didn't see the threshhold of "more elaborate changes".21:04
mdkehi all21:04
newz2000more than 2 - 5 min to implement is "more elaborate" I think21:04
newz2000hey mdke!21:04
mdkenewz2000: I totally flunked on the suckerfish challenge :(21:05
newz2000ah, well, you are a lawyer, so you can make it up in tort21:05
* newz2000 knows few legal terms21:05
mdkeI'm a bit rubbish at tort too, but a lot better than at CSS21:05
newz2000:-) Can I help?21:06
mdkenewz2000: well... if you have time21:06
newz2000tell me the prob (or show me) and we'll see21:06
mdkewell, it's more of a start from scratch thing; I played around with a few implementations but none worked so I reverted my changes21:07
mdkei wasn't even sure of the right html, let alone css21:07
newz2000do you want me to describe the solution to you and let you give it a try?21:07
mdkenewz2000: that might work :) the main problem I guess was that all the tutorials I followed were vertical dropdown menus, and this is rather different21:08
newz2000here's what to do21:09
newz2000create a list with one item, the item will be always visible and will be what you hover over to show the menu.21:09
newz2000<ul><li id="showbar">Show it</li></ul>21:09
newz2000before the closing </li> add a div that is the menu you want to appear21:10
newz2000so <div id="editbar">cool stuff here</div>21:10
mdkecan there be a list inside the div?21:10
newz2000<ul id="editbar">...</ul> is fine21:10
newz2000Make that look just like you want it to when the menu is open21:10
* newz2000 needs to test one thing before he goes any further21:11
mdkewhen you say "before the closing </li>"21:11
mdkedo you mean "before the closing </ul>"?21:11
newz2000go ahead21:11
newz2000inside the <li></li>21:11
mdkeah, ok, Iwas going so wrong :)21:11
newz2000ok, that's the hard part21:12
newz2000once that's done, you will hide the editbar like this:21:12
newz2000(using CSS)21:12
newz2000#showbar ul#editbar { display: none; }21:13
newz2000#showbar:hoever ul#editbar { display: block; }21:13
newz2000that's it pretty much21:13
mdkeah, hang on21:18
mdkeabove where you say "<ul id="editbar">... is fine"21:18
mdkeis that with the div wrapped around it, or without21:19
newz2000you don't need a div if you don't want one21:19
newz2000so here's code you can use...21:19
mdkeit's working now21:19
newz2000ah, cool21:20
mdkeone issue21:20
mdkeyou know the moin editbar has a "More Actions" dropdown (or dropup, in this case)? I lose that if I try to click on an item outside the editbar because it goes back to display: none21:21
newz2000ah, crud21:21
newz2000those select lists are nothing but trouble21:21
newz2000I would say we're either a) back to the drawing board, or b) going to require javascript21:22
mdkehow acceptable is javascript?21:23
newz2000I'm fine with it21:23
newz2000You could do this:21:23
mdkeand it would make the thing look prettier too?21:23
newz2000well, I'm not good at the prettier part, but we could get it working and ask the webteam for help with that21:24
newz2000I like javascript that degrades nicely so we could do this:21:24
newz2000set the edit bar to be position: absolute in css21:25
newz2000that will make it show at the bottom of the page all the time21:25
newz2000Then this "show editbar" link you have (currently position: fixed) could use javascript to change the editbar to position:fixed making it come up to the bottom of the screen.21:25
newz2000clicking it again would send it to the bottom of the page again21:26
newz2000the benefit of this is that if js is disabled the editbar is there, just at the bottom21:26
mdkeso it wouldn't depend on hover at all?21:26
mdkethat sounds perfect21:26
newz2000and the code is easy!21:26
newz2000I'll pastebin working example code, just a sec...21:27
mdkeI might commit where I have got to, for safe keeping21:28
newz2000good idea21:28
newz2000mdke: http://pastebin.com/m638d086f21:34
newz2000a few things21:34
newz2000copy and paste from the text area at the bottom of the page to avoid the line numbers21:34
newz2000the style="" in the second ul is important21:34
newz2000I've not tested the innerHTML parts - that should just change the word from Show editbar to Hide editbar and back again21:35
newz2000</end few things>21:35
mdkewhat is the elipsis in line 5?21:35
newz2000replace that with the editbar content21:35
newz2000those are for the rest of the html21:36
mdkeisn't that line 7?21:36
newz2000because editbar is position: absolute it may go wherever you like. it can go right after line 3 or at the end of the template.21:36
mdkeI'll post you the html I have now for the editbar function in the theme21:37
mdke        html = u'<ul id="showbar"><li>Show Editbar<ul id="editbar">\n%s\n</ul></li></ul>\n' % items21:37
mdkecan I get them both into that line?21:38
newz2000I added a span around the word show so that it can be changed with the word hide when appropriate21:38
mdkeok, I'll give it a try21:39
mdkeid="showbar" doesn't appear anywhere, is that normal?21:39
newz2000yeah, not needed now21:40
mdkenow it looks like this, I'll try it21:40
mdke        html = u'<<ul><li><a href="showbar" onclick="return togglebar()"><a href="#editbar"><span id="showbarspan">Show</span> editting options</a></li></ul><ul id="editbar" style="">\n%s\n</ul>\n' % items21:40
newz2000extra < at the beginning21:40
mdkeah, thanks21:41
newz2000actually more extras stuff...21:41
mdkeI'll put the javascript in the footer or something21:41
newz2000html = u'<ul><li><a href="#editbar" onclick="return togglebar()"><span id="showbarspan">Show</span> editting options</a></li></ul><ul id="editbar" style="">\n%s\n</ul>\n' % items21:42
newz2000I think that's right21:42
mdkehow does it pick up the #showbar css?21:43
newz2000you may need to add id="showbar" in there if you want to style it. :-)21:43
* newz2000 new it was there for something21:43
mdkewell, i at least need the position: fixed thing which is in your pastebin21:44
newz2000that's correct, in that case it should be on the ul21:44
newz2000the first ul21:45
mdkehmm. Doesn't seem to work as expected21:49
mdkeclicking "Show editing" works fine, but when you click "Hide editing", the bar is in the middle of the page21:50
mdkeor rather, at the bottom of the page if scrolled up to the top, but in the middle when you scroll down21:50
newz2000does it change its position when you click hide?21:50
newz2000or does nothing happen21:50
mdkeclicking hide produces the problem21:51
newz2000after         obj.style.position = 'absolute'; add21:51
newz2000        obj.style.bottom = '0';21:51
newz2000in the javascript21:51
* newz2000 is guessing21:51
mdkesame issue21:52
mdkedo you have a desktop wiki?21:52
newz2000not at hand, but I can probably set one up pronto if you share your code21:53
mdkeI'll commit again21:53
mdkewith moin 1.6.4, you just grab the regular tarball and run ./moin.py21:54
newz2000my testing vm works I think21:54
mdkealright, whatever works for you :)21:54
newz2000where's your code?21:55
newz2000ok, I think I see what you mean22:00
newz2000so before you do anything it's in the middle of nowhere22:00
newz2000then you click show and it snaps into place22:00
newz2000then you click hide and it goes back to the middle again22:01
Erik_JHave a nice day22:06
newz2000mdke: I will dig into this further and send you a patch22:06
mdkenewz2000: *hugs*22:06
mdkethanks a lot dude22:07
newz2000no prob22:07

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