[09:32] <cking> sit-
[09:32] <cking> sit-
[15:54] <bryce> morning
[15:54] <evand> good morning
[15:54] <ArneGoetje> howdy
[15:59] <james_w> hello everyone, is it that time again?
[15:59] <TheMuso> Yes it is.
[15:59] <calc> hello
[16:00] <cjwatson> good afternoon
[16:00] <TheMuso> Good $Time_Of_Day.
[16:00] <asac> hi all
[16:01] <liw> hi
[16:01]  * slangasek waves
[16:01] <cjwatson> doko: around?
[16:02] <doko> yes
[16:02] <cjwatson> I have been slack and not written up last week's meeting yet; sorry about that
[16:02] <cjwatson> I'll try to extract actions from the log on the fly
[16:03] <cjwatson> so, outstanding actions
[16:03] <cjwatson> Chris to upload openoffice.org3 to the ~openoffice-pkgs PPA
[16:03] <cjwatson> calc: you said this would be done by this meeting ...?
[16:04] <calc> cjwatson: still outstanding unfortunately, however i am in progress on it
[16:04] <calc> cjwatson: i got 2.4.1-9ubuntu1 done and in the archive, and working on the 3.0 debs as we speak
[16:04] <cjwatson> this has been dragging for some time now; would help from somebody else be valuable to get it closed out by the end of the week?
[16:05] <calc> cjwatson: i'm still without power so working off my much slower (than desktop) laptop
[16:05] <cjwatson> thanks for 2.4.1-9ubuntu1
[16:05] <liw> calc, I can give you access to my desktop machine if that helps
[16:05] <calc> it would be helpful to have someone with enough space to test them once i get them uploaded to the ppa
[16:05] <cjwatson> thanks for fixing those two RC bugs, too
[16:05] <calc> i don't really have enough spare space to setup a vm and test them out on my laptop :\
[16:06] <cjwatson> (104685, 106546)
[16:06] <calc> liw: ok :)
[16:06] <cjwatson> oh yes, how about I use mootbot, that would help
[16:06] <cjwatson> #startmeeting
[16:06] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:06. The chair is cjwatson.
[16:06] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:06] <calc> liw: i'll see how it goes but i think i can get it done without trouble, just need testing
[16:06] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] outstanding actions
[16:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  outstanding actions
[16:06] <liw> calc, ok, talk to me if you need it
[16:06] <cjwatson> [ACTION] liw to give calc access to desktop machine for OOo builds
[16:06] <MootBot> ACTION received:  liw to give calc access to desktop machine for OOo builds
[16:06] <cjwatson> [ACTION] calc to upload 3.0 to PPA by end of week
[16:06] <MootBot> ACTION received:  calc to upload 3.0 to PPA by end of week
[16:07] <calc> i had been going off the bad estimate last week that we would have power by this past monday, they keep shoving the time estimate back every time they update :(
[16:08] <cjwatson> I appreciate the problem there; hopefully some remote hardware assistance will be enough to get past it
[16:08] <calc> cjwatson: yea it should help :)
[16:08] <cjwatson> I think that's the only outstanding action I can see
[16:08] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] items from activity reports
[16:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  items from activity reports
[16:08] <cjwatson> doko: missing current report from you, I think
[16:09] <cjwatson> doko: your last report mentioned a problem with OpenJDK's compiler targetting Java 1.6 bytecode right now, which breaks older VMs; would it be useful to discuss this here?
[16:09] <asac> cjwatson: the other action was MIR for broadband wizard stuff. its drafted and pitti will do it by tomorrow
[16:09] <cjwatson> asac: oh yes, I skipped that since I knew it had been done from your side ;-)
[16:10] <liw> calc, I can give you access to one or more VMs as well, ssh+vnc, so you can test things directly, even
[16:10] <asac> cjwatson: ok ;)
[16:10] <calc> liw: ok
[16:11] <calc> i think i may have enough space here now that i can safely delete the 2.4.1 build files
[16:14] <cjwatson> doko: ... ping?
[16:14] <doko> cjwatson: hmm, somebody removed the milestone (slowly typing ...)
[16:15] <cjwatson> understood, just wanted to check you hadn't missed it
[16:16] <doko> currently disscussing this with the opnjdk guys and with michael koch. I'd like to see this fixed. the time consuming option to build ant and all runtime deps explicitely with -target 1.4
[16:16] <doko> otoh I'm evaluating if having an openjdk defaulting to 1.4 or 1.5 would be ok
[16:17] <cjwatson> what 1.4-only VMs do we have in the archive?
[16:17] <cjwatson> or are you thinking of extra-archive compatibility as well?
[16:17] <doko> yes the latter
[16:17] <doko> blackdown is still thre?
[16:17] <cjwatson> also, what do we lose by targeting 1.4?
[16:17] <doko> this is the question
[16:18] <cjwatson> I was hoping for an answer ;-)
[16:20] <doko> yes, I'm trying to get one as well ;)
[16:20] <cjwatson> I think we need that before being able to work out what to do, really
[16:20] <cjwatson> [ACTION] doko to extract information about what we lose by targeting Java 1.4 and report back
[16:20] <MootBot> ACTION received:  doko to extract information about what we lose by targeting Java 1.4 and report back
[16:21] <cjwatson> ok, the next question was from bryce
[16:21] <cjwatson> * What should we do with acpi-support?
[16:21] <bryce> right
[16:22] <cjwatson> my understanding has been that acpi-support is supposed to be superseded by hal/pm-utils; I think the reason it hasn't been ejected from the archive is simply that nobody has yet done the hard work of going through all of the quirks in acpi-support and verifying that they've been preserved (or adding them, as appropriate)
[16:22] <cjwatson> without that, binning acpi-support runs the risk of introducing all kinds of hardware-specific regressions
[16:22] <cjwatson> but I think it would be valuable work to do
[16:23] <cjwatson> does anyone else have understanding that's more complete than this?
[16:23] <bryce> well, my question was more about in the near term.  I've been pulling in changes from debian's package (there's quite a few)
[16:24] <slangasek> well, I know my wireless key is only handled by acpi-support, so that's more than just a risk of regression
[16:24] <bryce> so I'm wondering if I should continue with that, or if it's just a waste of time if we're going to bin it in jaunty anyway
[16:24] <slangasek> I'm not sure what package would take over the logic from /usr/share/acpi-support/state-funcs for that...
[16:24] <cjwatson> we should be using the Debian changes as a base for the merge into pm-utils anyway ...
[16:24]  * slangasek nods
[16:24] <cjwatson> assuming they represent improvements :)
[16:25] <cjwatson> so I don't think it's lost work to merge them
[16:26] <bryce> ok, I'll upload what I've done so far, and keep poking at it as time permits
[16:27] <cjwatson> would you say that the changes outstanding from Debian are mostly new quirks, or are there major restructurings?
[16:28] <bryce> both
[16:28] <cjwatson> I'm wondering what the QA impact of merging this is; I suspect that it will be a very, very good idea to have this done before beta
[16:28] <bryce> I've avoided the major restructurings so far
[16:30] <bryce> since there's a lot of hardware-specificness, QAing the changes is hard, but the worst case situation is more hotkeys regressing
[16:30] <cjwatson> bryce: do you feel you're comfortable with what you need to get done for beta, then?
[16:30] <cjwatson> I believe pitti has worked on pm-utils before and can offer advice
[16:30] <bryce> yeah I think so
[16:31] <cjwatson> ok, thanks
[16:31] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] Milestoned bugs
[16:31] <MootBot> New Topic:  Milestoned bugs
[16:31] <bryce> I won't have time to get into pm-utils but I can merge in more bits from acpi-support
[16:31] <cjwatson> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=1325
[16:31] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=1325
[16:31] <cjwatson> so, of the ones that apply to us and aren't fix-committed:
[16:31] <cjwatson> asac: 270429
[16:31] <asac> bug 270429
[16:32] <asac> cjwatson: haha ... yeah. hard upstream regression
[16:32] <asac> but data is at least not lost
[16:32] <asac> cjwatson: all fine its certainly on track and i am monitoring this
[16:32] <asac> (reported today)
[16:32] <jdstrand> actually, it seems it sometimes works...
[16:33] <asac> jdstrand: it works if you dont have non-ascii things in your store
[16:33] <cjwatson> well, passwords are sometimes data
[16:33] <asac> cjwatson: no ... they are not lost. they are just not seen atm
[16:33] <jdstrand> asac: anywhere or certain fields?
[16:33] <asac> so its no real dataloss ... thats what i mean
[16:33] <jdstrand> s/fields/sites/
[16:33] <asac> once the fix lands they will be recovered automatically
[16:33] <cjwatson> oh, I see
[16:34] <cjwatson> ok, that's something, glad to know it's being worked on upstream
[16:34] <cjwatson> asac: any progress on 256054?
[16:34] <asac> jdstrand: I should be a bit clearer here on the impact here. The bug is caused by invalid UTF-8 data in the password store. Not all users will
[16:34] <asac> +be affected, but many who have stored logins with non-ASCII data (hostname/HTTP realm/username/password) in them will.
[16:35] <asac> cjwatson: no. thats the only bug i would say has a risk of not making beta.
[16:35] <asac> cjwatson: but if nothing unexpected happens i will have a fix for beta
[16:36] <cjwatson> that's the experimental ifupdown plugin?
[16:37] <cjwatson> any particular testing you'd like on that?
[16:37] <asac> cjwatson: anyone who has a interfaces setup could try what happens when enabling it
[16:37] <asac> and if it doesnt work, post a bug
[16:38] <slangasek> how do we enable it?  is the information in that bug?
[16:38] <asac> it will no cover _all_ fancy interfaces setups, but the standard setups should work
[16:38] <asac> slangasek: i can add that info the bug description. (its in the last comment from me)
[16:39] <asac> but maybe to repeat the options we have:
[16:39] <cjwatson> You could try the experiemental ifupdown plugin. just append ,ifupdown
[16:39] <cjwatson> to the plugins= line in /etc/NetworkManager/nm-system-settings.conf
[16:39] <cjwatson> and restart your system.
[16:39] <asac> 1. write a simple plugin that makes all interfaces unmanaged and keep the full-ifupdown support not enabled
[16:39] <cjwatson> (from asac in that bug)
[16:39] <asac> by default
[16:39] <asac> 2. introduce a interfaces stanza parameter "nm-managed" which defaults to false
[16:40] <asac> 2. solution is simpler and quicker to do, but we would need to teach ifupdown to not manage "nm-managed" interfaces
[16:41] <cjwatson> which is starting to get complicated, requiring fiddly configuration file migration and such
[16:41] <asac> 1. is cleaner
[16:41] <asac> cjwatson: well. currently configurations in interfaces are not managed
[16:42] <asac> since gutsy
[16:42] <asac> so i dont think we need to migrate them
[16:43] <asac> actually 1. was the solutino i suggested. that would put the full ifupdown plugin in  separate package which conflicts ifupdown
[16:43] <asac> to reflect that those dont work together
[16:43] <asac> and the default install would ship the disable-all-plugin
[16:44] <asac> so my idea was to do 1. ... 2. would be fine with me if people like that more
[16:44] <cjwatson> actually, is there a problem with doing both? :-)
[16:44] <cjwatson> and then people can have 2. as an option in case 1. is too difficult for them to arrange
[16:44] <cjwatson> maybe that's overkill
[16:45] <asac> cjwatson: both sounds like overkill
[16:46] <cjwatson> I think this needs to be taken to ubuntu-devel@ if you haven't already; it's getting too long for this meeting
[16:46] <asac> sure
[16:47] <asac> will carry it there
[16:47] <cjwatson> asac: sorry lots of these are on you, but do you know who's working on 259278, if anyone?
[16:47] <cjwatson> looking at the log it seems to be somewhat in limbo, but is milestoned
[16:48] <asac> cjwatson: i think thats because i did a lot of bugwork ... reshuffeling my milestone targets
[16:48] <asac> cjwatson: there is a opensuse guy working on it
[16:48] <asac> cjwatson: last week he said that he will have something this week
[16:48] <cjwatson> it does indeed sort of imply that most other people aren't milestoning enough ;-)
[16:49] <cjwatson> ok, just wanted to check for the release meeting
[16:50] <cjwatson> the last one seems to be 182004, which I am working on
[16:50] <asac> cjwatson: i will try to chat with him again to see how much work he thinks is left for knetworkmanager
[16:51] <cjwatson> I suspect the fix will in fact be quick and dirty, by marking individual questions as unseen, rather than a more "correct" approach which would also be riskier
[16:51] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] Targeted bugs
[16:51] <MootBot> New Topic:  Targeted bugs
[16:51] <asac> maybe one good news: NM 0.7 will most likely be final for release. we are currently definining the RC bugs upstream. so if anyone has issues that he really wants to see fixed, give me the launchpad bug id
[16:51] <cjwatson> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs
[16:51] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs
[16:51] <cjwatson> asac: oh, that is good news
[16:52] <cjwatson> I don't think we'll get through all the targeted bugs, but maybe a few of them
[16:52] <cjwatson> bryce: 197680
[16:52] <cjwatson> oh, and 244413
[16:54] <bryce> the first one I need to re-test, but it may still be an issue; I'll look into it more.  It's not a regression though
[16:54] <bryce> more of a wish for functionality that ought to be working by now.  ;-)
[16:54] <bryce> the latter, 244413. I was waiting on comment back from the user since I don't have the corresponding hardware
[16:54] <cjwatson> I see 255008 has allegedly recurred; looks like it needs some more analysis
[16:55] <bryce> probably neither bug needs to be milestoned really; there's much more important issues
[16:55] <cjwatson> they aren't milestoned, at any rate not for alpha, but they're high-priority and targeted to intrepid
[16:56] <cjwatson> s/alpha/beta/
[16:57] <cjwatson> 267884 (pkgsel redownloads package lists unnecessarily) *is* a bug because we thought we'd nailed down all of that for hardy
[16:57] <cjwatson> s/a bug/important/
[16:57] <bryce> I'll take another pass at both, and un-target them if it looks like there's nothing that can be done safely for beta.
[16:57] <cjwatson> I think fixing it is going to involve messy fiddling about in /var/lib/apt/lists/ though :-(
[16:58] <cjwatson> otherwise I think we're out of time for targeted bugs
[16:58] <cjwatson> any other business?
[16:58] <cjwatson> including good news if anyone has any
[16:58] <cjwatson> sorry, I wish I could manage more than two minutes for AOB
[16:58] <asac> maybe the EULA bug resolution ;) ... not sure if everyone thinks its a good outcome
[16:58] <asac> i will post a few screenshots of what we rolled out now
[16:59] <cjwatson> I think it could have been a lot worse
[16:59] <asac> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17877769/firstrun.png
[16:59] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17877769/firstrun.png
[16:59] <asac> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17877774/about_rights.png
[16:59] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17877774/about_rights.png
[16:59] <asac> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17877776/about_rights_expanded.png
[16:59] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17877776/about_rights_expanded.png
[16:59] <cjwatson> "your rights" is so much better as a presentation than a EULA
[16:59] <evand> imo, much better
[16:59] <asac> yes. and we also have it in a notification bar
[16:59] <slangasek> good news> in talking with mdz, it came to my attention that it might not be common knowledge that the next release of Project Athena was being based on hardy
[17:00] <asac> (like in firstrun.png)
[17:00] <slangasek> http://web.mit.edu/release/www/athena10/
[17:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://web.mit.edu/release/www/athena10/
[17:00] <cjwatson> and it's clearly about the services now, not about the browser itself
[17:00] <cjwatson> slangasek: I didn't even know it still existed!
[17:00] <slangasek> :-)
[17:00] <cjwatson> (wikipedia says it ended in 1991)
[17:02] <cjwatson> all right, well, let's call it a day here, then
[17:02] <cjwatson> beta freeze tomorrow, so good luck to all
[17:02] <TheMuso> Thanks.
[17:02] <asac> thanks all ... sorry for taking all the time on milestones :)
[17:02] <evand> thanks
[17:02] <liw> thanks
[17:02] <slangasek> thanks
[17:03] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[17:03] <asac> slangasek: one suggestion: could you include in your announcements a approx. time when freezes get instantiated?
[17:04] <slangasek> asac: according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseSchedule, freezes "normally happen at the start of the day, UTC"
[17:04] <asac> ok
[17:04] <slangasek> asac: this is... not always adhered to rigorously, but is a good planning target for people trying to get in before the freeze :)
[17:05] <asac> slangasek: yeah. i missed that obvious bullet-point on the schedule page ;)
[17:06] <asac> and my empirical data gives me no rule ;)
[17:06] <cjwatson> oh yes
[17:06] <cjwatson> #endmeeting
[17:06] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:06.
[17:59] <davmor2> Hello Everybody :)
[17:59] <ara> hello
[17:59] <schwuk> Evening
[18:00] <pedro_> hey hey!
[18:00]  * ogasawara waves
[18:00] <heno> hey!
[18:00]  * intellectronica coughs
[18:00] <bdmurray> hi!
[18:01] <heno> #startmeeting
[18:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is heno.
[18:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:02] <davmor2> Yay The bot is back :)
[18:02] <heno> agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
[18:03] <intellectronica> gee, good thing i started showing up for this meetings. otherwise you wouldn't have what to talk about :P
[18:03] <heno> heh
[18:03] <heno> [TOPIC] Bug searching API is now available on edge for your testing pleasure (intellectronica).
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bug searching API is now available on edge for your testing pleasure (intellectronica).
[18:03] <intellectronica> tadaaam
[18:04] <intellectronica> so, finally, searching for bugs using the API is available on edge
[18:04] <ara> intellectronica: cool :-)
[18:04] <bdmurray> yeah!
[18:04] <intellectronica> this is a fairly complex function, so lots of testing is necessary
[18:04]  * heno (adds an item to the agenda as well)
[18:04] <intellectronica> so, hit it as hard as you can, and let me know when it breaks
[18:05] <bdmurray> heh, that sounds like a challenge
[18:05] <sbeattie> intellectronica: where is the API documented?
[18:05] <ara> intellectronica: where's the API doc? (sorry if this is a trivial question)
[18:05] <intellectronica> sbeattie: it isn't really. you should be able to get the WSDL for it, and i'll try to write some documentation on the wiki
[18:05] <ara> or duplicated...
[18:05] <ara> :D
[18:06] <intellectronica> the method itself is searchTasks, and you can call it on the normal things that have bugs (like distros, projects, distro packages, etc'...)
[18:06] <heno> so just hammer the server with random strings to decipher the API ;)
[18:06] <pedro_> lol
[18:07] <intellectronica> ara: https://edge.launchpad.net/+apidoc
[18:08] <heno> ok, moving on
[18:08] <heno> [TOPIC] Sell the bugzilla or trac LP plugins to an upstream, get a beer (intellectronica)
[18:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Sell the bugzilla or trac LP plugins to an upstream, get a beer (intellectronica)
[18:09] <ara> which pub?
[18:09] <heno> jcastro: around?
[18:09] <intellectronica> just a reminder that we now have plugins for both trac and bugzilla, which allow syncing comments
[18:09] <intellectronica> if you know of any upstreams which use bugzilla or trac (and where you have some contact with the admins) why don't you ask them to install those plugins
[18:09] <pedro_> FYI: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-bugsquad/2008-August/msg00001.html
[18:10] <bdmurray> they require a specific version of bugzilla?
[18:10] <heno> Is there a sample bug or demo of this working in practice?
[18:10] <pedro_> that's a comment from Olav Vitters the gnome bugzilla admin
[18:10] <intellectronica> bdmurray: yes. > 3.0
[18:10] <pedro_> that's one of the issues there...
[18:11] <intellectronica> heno: as far as i know we've only had tests of this on staging, which is wiped periodically. i can definitely arrange that if necessary, and as of the next release we should have a few projects that use it and are visible on the production servers
[18:12] <jcastro> heno: yep!
[18:13] <jcastro> heno: Olav and I had discussions about this at guadec.
[18:13] <heno> jcastro: are there plans to approach other upstreams?
[18:13] <jcastro> heno: But they are not moving to bugzilla 3.x just yet, he mentioned that once they get a developer instance of it running that they would be interested in helping test.
[18:14] <jcastro> yes in the past we tried to do a closed run where I would invite upstreams to come test but that wasn't very successfull
[18:14] <jcastro> after that we just announced that anyone can be welcome to test.
[18:15] <heno> perhaps we should talk to the maintainers of bugzilla and trac themselves to get it shipped with their releases (if we haven't already)
[18:15] <jcastro> but unfortunately there wasn't much traction there
[18:15] <intellectronica> heno: that's a nice idea
[18:15] <jcastro> the GNOME bugzilla 3.x transition isn't coming up anytime soon so I was going to wait for them to get a test server up and then repropose.
[18:15] <heno> ogasawara: the kernel uses bugzilla, is that run by Natalie?
[18:16] <bdmurray> heno: its 2.2 something
[18:16] <jcastro> yeah, a large number of upstream bugzillas are 2.x
[18:17] <heno> I suspect they may not be interested in comments directly from our users either
[18:17] <ogasawara> heno:  what bdmurray said.  she maintains the bugs, but I don't think is responsible for the actual admining
[18:17] <pedro_> how many upstream projects out there are using bugzilla 3 ?
[18:17] <pedro_> i mean the large ones , firefox, freedesktop, etc?
[18:17] <heno> we have several times more open kernel bugs than kernel.org AFAIR
[18:18] <jcastro> fdo is bugzilla 3.x
[18:18] <bdmurray> I seem to recall a couple of kernel guys maintaing it
[18:18] <ogasawara> heno:  another thing to note is that a lot of kernel bugs are reported and deal with directly on the mailing lists
[18:18] <pedro_> yeah just saw it version 3.0.3
[18:19] <ogasawara> heno:  and until we have a vanilla kernel PPA in place, I suspect upstream won't want the extra noise
[18:20] <heno> IMO we should prepare a menu of options for ways/levels to collaborate with us on wrt bugs, that we can present to all upstreams
[18:20] <heno> bug day participation, bug tracker integration, bug contact, mothly summary report of bugs in their packages, etc
[18:21] <heno> instead of approaching them all N times with different requests
[18:23] <heno> [silence]
[18:23]  * davmor2 isn't that golden
[18:23] <sbeattie> ogasawara: isn't arjan willing to take ksymoops reports from us, or is that only for -vanilla kernels as well? Does he not maintain kernel bugzilla?
[18:23] <heno> jcastro, pedro_: can you guys make a list of options like that?
[18:24] <heno> a wiki page with the options explained and whot to contact to set it up
[18:24] <bdmurray> sbeattie: its hosted by the linux foundation
[18:24] <ogasawara> sbeattie: the kerneloops is sort of a separate project, but yes he is willing to take stats from our Ubuntu kernels
[18:25] <pedro_> heno: yup
[18:25] <heno> thanks!
[18:25] <heno> ok, let's move on
[18:26] <heno> [TOPIC] Release report for Friday
[18:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Release report for Friday
[18:26] <heno> I won't be there (as I'm on holiday)
[18:26] <sbeattie> I'll be there.
[18:27] <heno> sbeattie, bdmurray: can you both look at getting that in shape?
[18:27] <heno> regressions and other hot bugs
[18:27] <ogasawara> sbeattie:  I'm sure one of the hot topics will be the e1000e driver issue
[18:27] <heno> indeed
[18:27] <bdmurray> heno: sure
[18:28] <heno> that's already on the release team's radar, and arguably something we should have flagged sooner in a report
[18:29] <sbeattie> heno: AFAIK, it was not onanyone's radar until this week.
[18:29] <heno> when in doubt about whether a serious bug you are aware of should go on that list, please consult other QA members for an opinion
[18:29] <sbeattie> what's the state of hardware testing?
[18:29] <heno> sbeattie: I and ogasawara knew about it
[18:29] <ogasawara> it was on the kernel team's radar and mine since it was reported
[18:30] <heno> so I'm looking at my own procedures for this sort of thing
[18:30] <sbeattie> heno: one point of contention is that it took us a bit to pull alpha6
[18:30] <heno> sbeattie: it would have been on your list had not the kernel team removed the regression tag :)
[18:31] <sbeattie> heh
[18:31] <ogasawara> yes, I think the urgency/seriousness for escalating fell short
[18:32] <davmor2> sbeattie: what?
[18:32] <heno> so, anyone else have any serious bugs in mind?
[18:32] <heno> (a question we should ask each meeting until release)
[18:32]  * davmor2 looks through bug reports
[18:34] <heno> please add issues to the release report list as they turn up
[18:34] <bdmurray> not I
[18:34] <davmor2> heno: Ndiswrapper no longer seems to work I've kicked and screamed at it but nothing. https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ndiswrapper/+bug/268625
[18:36] <heno> that bug has no status or importance yet
[18:36] <heno> does it need any debugging info?
[18:36] <davmor2> I've no idea and I don't know what info from where either
[18:37] <heno> we should try to get the bug reports from our own testers in better shape sooner
[18:37] <sbeattie> heno: I'm hoping the very recent modprobe speedup will address bug 258432 for me; otherwise I think it ought to get escalated.
[18:37] <heno> bdmurray: can you work with davmor2 to get his existing reports properly triaged?
[18:38] <davmor2> I got to go now I'll see about what info is needed and from where tomorrow
[18:38] <bdmurray> heno: sure
[18:38] <davmor2> bdmurray: Thanks
[18:39] <heno> sbeattie: I've raised it's importance - do you have bug-control powers?
[18:41] <heno> ah, I see you do
[18:41] <heno> sbeattie: feel free to set the importance on such bugs
[18:41] <sbeattie> sure, thanks.
[18:42] <bdmurray> Bugs can be new and have an importance as far as I'm concerned
[18:42] <heno> perhaps that should appear on the regression and SRU pages as well
[18:42] <heno> agree
[18:42] <sbeattie> heno: the importance, you mean? Yeah, I'd just been thinking of adding that.
[18:43] <heno> most SRU and regression bugs will be High or Critical I guess, but still
[18:43] <heno> any other business?
[18:43] <sbeattie> mmm, I've seen some low ones go through, IIRC, but get caught in rollups with other bugs.
[18:44] <bdmurray> sbeattie: have you checked with cjwatson about it?
[18:44] <bdmurray> your bug that is.
[18:44] <heno> sbeattie: and those are ones we should question I think, as any fix can cause a problem
[18:44] <sbeattie> bdmurray: not yet
[18:45] <heno> or at least not prioritise in SRU verification
[18:45] <sbeattie> heno: agreed on both counts. Need to add sorting by column to those webpages.
[18:46] <heno> yep. again, check with bryce on that
[18:46] <sbeattie> Re the move to testcases.qa.ubuntu.com, is https://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu/Applications the right place to propose new apps for testing?
[18:46] <sbeattie> e.g. evince (gnome pdf viewer) probably ought to be on that list.
[18:47] <heno> yes, perhaps in a separate table though
[18:47] <heno> the current table should go away when the migration is complete
[18:47] <heno> ara, schwuk: how is that proceeding?
[18:48] <sbeattie> also, how do we wish to handle testcases that could apply to multiple apps?
[18:48] <ara> heno: which current talbe?
[18:48] <heno> sbeattie: an example?
[18:48] <sbeattie> e.g. sample pdfs for kpdf and evince
[18:48] <ara> s/talbe/table
[18:48] <heno> ara: the one listing pages to move from wiki.u.c
[18:49] <heno> we should have a SampleData page to attach those to
[18:50] <heno> the test cases are now quite short, and then collected in larger suites
[18:50] <heno> it would be nice to use the new wiki for beta testing
[18:50] <ara> heno: I am trying to explain better each test case
[18:51] <heno> ok. davmor2 is also working on this (but seems to have logged off ATM)
[18:52] <sbeattie> heno: I've been going through some of the verification-done bugs and pulling out samples where I could. I have some of them in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sbeattie/+junk/qa-testcases/files
[18:53] <sbeattie> ... and was trying to figure out how to add them to the wiki, structurally.
[18:53] <cjwatson> sbeattie: I've opened bug 258432 and will look at it later, thanks
[18:53] <heno> sbeattie: please just start new pages for the applications
[18:53] <sbeattie> cjwatson: thanks
[18:53] <heno> we can rename pages later if need be
[18:54] <heno> sbeattie: add attachments to app test pages or in a SampleData page as appropriate
[18:54] <heno> let's wrap up
[18:54] <heno> anything else?
[18:55] <intellectronica> one thing
[18:55] <mathiaz> heno: I'd like to know how you're gonna handle beta testing of isos ?
[18:55] <intellectronica> please don't forget to add agenda items and your names to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/LaunchpadBugsUbuntuQAMeeting if you wish to participate
[18:55] <mathiaz> heno: are you planning to do smoke testing ?
[18:55] <mathiaz> heno: ie generate a first set of images later this week and test them as much as possible ?
[18:56] <heno> mathiaz: yes, we'll run manual and automated smoke tests daily running up to beta
[18:56] <mathiaz> heno: could you quickly re-explain what smoke test is ?
[18:57] <heno> basic install testing. The manual testing is tracked here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/DailySmoke
[18:58] <heno> mathiaz: we are working on improving reporting of the automated testing and I'd appreciate your feedback on that
[18:58] <heno> schwuk: can you set up mathiaz with access to that?
[18:58] <mathiaz> heno: sure - I'm in touch with cr3 about this (once in a while though)
[18:59] <schwuk> heno: sure
[18:59] <mathiaz> heno: I mentionned beta testing during yesterday's server team meeting
[18:59] <mathiaz> heno: just wanted to make sure I'm still up-to-date with the procedures
[19:00] <heno> mathiaz: do you or Dustin still have access to kick off tests?
[19:00] <mathiaz> heno: not that I know
[19:00] <kirkland> heno: i don't know
[19:00] <heno> we would be happy for you to still have a hand in that this release (if you have time)
[19:01] <kirkland> heno: that's going to be difficult for me, i think, i'm picking up some of soren's responsibilities
[19:01] <heno> ok
[19:02] <kirkland> heno: i'm happy to help as much as I can
[19:03] <heno> kirkland, mathiaz: please have a look at the test results and let us know what's missing
[19:03] <mathiaz> heno: I'll have a look at it.
[19:03] <heno> right, really wrapping up this time
[19:03] <heno> thanks all
[19:03] <heno> !
[19:03] <heno> #endmeeting
[19:03] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:03.
[22:14] <Slash_Network> hello all
[22:16] <nizarus> hello Slash_Network
[22:16] <nizarus> what are you doing here ?
[22:17] <nizarus> you are not in ubuntu-tn channel :)
[22:17] <Slash_Network> I tray to talk with other people about ubuntu
[22:17] <Slash_Network> lol
[22:17] <nizarus> this channel is reserved for meetings ;)
[22:18] <Slash_Network> okey