[11:17] <fritz09> hello!
[11:17] <fritz09> peace and love!
[11:23] <rsc-> hola.
[11:36] <fritz09> hola rsc
[11:36] <kwwii> hrm, where is thorwil
[11:43] <rsc-> kwwii, whens the deadline for community themes for Intrepid?
[11:43] <rsc-> i.e., till when can I polish dust :p
[11:52] <kwwii> rsc-: if you have fixes for specific issues/bugs I can still include them today
[11:52] <kwwii> after today things will get harder to change
[11:52] <kwwii> but bug fixing is always possible up the end
[11:52] <rsc-> okay
[11:52] <rsc-> "bzr branch lp:dusttheme" should be good.
[11:52] <rsc-> :)
[12:03] <kwwii> cool, I will look into a bit later
[12:03] <rsc-> great!
[13:09] <thorwil> kwwii: thanks for the nice blog post. views are up to 406, where 84 was the top before
[13:10] <thorwil> now if only this would translate into input/feedback :)
[13:11] <thorwil> also posted on the ubuntu artwork forum. no reply after 22 hours, hard at work proving its uselessness :>
[13:11] <kwwii> hehe, cool
[13:11] <kwwii> people probably don't know how to start the conversation, I think
[13:12] <thorwil> perhaps
[13:13] <thorwil> i will try it with the briefing/goals mail on that forum. and hit the community cafe for input on what ubuntu is all about, as experiment
[13:17] <thorwil> oh, forums have database error :(
[13:23] <kwwii> lol
[13:23] <kwwii> popey: hey man! did the human-theme update fix your problem?
[13:26] <kwwii> sooo many people complained about the new wallpaper that the server started smoking
[13:28] <thorwil> heh
[13:30] <thorwil> _MMA_: good morning. Ken's blog-post brought us 406 views. my forum post about kyudo has no single reply after 22 hours. and i'm going for coffee now that you arrive ^^
[13:30] <_MMA_> :)
[13:31] <_MMA_> I saw the blog post. I have some things to do this morning but Im generally round.
[13:39] <popey> hi kwwii just rebooting to test
[13:47] <rsc-> thorwil, what forum?
[13:47] <popey> kwwii: still seems broken here
[13:47] <popey> kwwii: i may be missing something - I am using the NewHuman theme
[13:48] <rsc-> also, how do you check for pageviews on the ubuntu wiki? :p
[13:50] <_MMA_> rsc-: It's generally accepted in #ubuntu channels that any mention of a forum is meant to refer to the Ubuntu Forums. Unless otherwise noted.
[13:51] <rsc-> is there some sort of ubuntu art sub-forum in the ubuntu forums?
[13:52] <kwwii> popey: argh...suckage
[13:52] <kwwii> I know exactly how to fix it and I did so already...this makes no sense
[13:52] <_MMA_> rsc-: Yes.
[13:53] <rsc-> oh wow.
[13:53] <rsc-> i certainly haven't been too involved in the ocmmunity to not know about this
[13:54] <kwwii> popey: is the version you have installed the same as this: http://sinecera.de/human-theme_0.26_all.deb ?
[13:55] <kwwii> hrm, and make sure that you do not have a NewHuman theme in your .themes dir, of course
[13:56] <kwwii> and make sure that the window decoration settings are really on NewHuman and not something else like Human-Murrine or such
[13:56] <popey> ok.. checking
[13:57] <kwwii> I moved the unfocused text down one pixel, I swear I did :-)
[13:58] <rsc-> thorwil, I replied on the forum thread to help bump it up, heh :)
[13:58] <popey> hmm, i just did a wget on that deb and diffed with my local cached copy in /var/cache/apt/archives and they are _not_ the same
[13:59]  * popey does an apt-get install human-theme --reinstall
[13:59] <thorwil> rsc-: page views are on one of the sub pages, if you follow the Info link on wiki pages
[14:00] <popey> kwwii: even if i remove the deb and reinstall - it redownloads and the deb in the repo is _not_ the same as that one on sinecera
[14:01] <popey> yours is 44020 bytes, the one from the repo is 43514 bytes dated 24/9/08
[14:01] <popey> (from gb.archive.ubuntu.com which as I understand it _is_ archive.ubuntu.com
[14:01] <thorwil> rsc-: heh, thanks for the bump :)
[14:06] <kwwii> popey: hrm, ok...that means that pitti uploaded the wrong one
[14:06] <kwwii> at least now I understand how it happened
[14:07] <popey> woot
[14:08] <popey> have updated the bug report btw
[14:10] <kwwii> popey: are you using my ppa?
[14:10] <popey> no
[14:10] <popey> should I?
[14:11] <kwwii> well, it always has the newest stuff first
[14:11]  * popey likes the newest crack
[14:11] <kwwii> and I was wondering if the package up there is also borked
[14:11] <popey> will try
[14:11]  * thorwil has to cut some ivy
[14:11]  * _MMA_ hands Alan a pipe.
[14:13] <popey> \o/ pie
[14:13] <_MMA_> Do you really need more? :P
[14:13]  * _MMA_ runs.
[14:14] <popey> _MMA_: http://meow.popey.com/
[14:15]  * _MMA_ cautiously clicks.
[14:15] <kwwii> lol, just knowing that you had that ready scares me
[14:15] <_MMA_> :)
[14:15] <popey> :)
[14:22] <_MMA_> thorwil: My availability after the 4th of Oct, and for the 5 weeks or so after will limited. I got a CAD job and will be going to Mexico for a bit. I should be able to attend to anything that needs my direct attention but extra stuff, like chatting here, won't happen much. When I return, things should be back to somewhat normal. Though, I'll be chatting from work and that can be tricky. :)
[14:22] <popey> kwwii: oddly.. i add your repo, and when i try to reinstall human-theme it gets the one from ubuntu.com not your ppa..
[14:23] <kwwii> because the official source comes before the other probably
[14:23] <kwwii> they are at the same version number
[14:23] <kwwii> or launchpad knows it somehow
[14:24] <_MMA_> kwwii: Isnt your package supposed to have "PPA" in it or something? And those supersede repo packages?
[14:25]  * _MMA_ is kinda pullin' that one out of his ass but it sounds right.
[14:25] <kwwii> no idea
[14:26] <popey> \o/ we three clueless dudes
[14:26]  * _MMA_ does a dance.
[14:26]  * popey takes pictures
[14:39] <popey> ooo, like the new gdm theme
[15:14] <kwwii> I bet baby jesus didn't like meetings either
[15:21] <Cimi> kwwii, if you have some requests/mockups before I will be unreachable, those are the right days
[15:21] <Cimi> *these
[15:31] <kwwii> popey: lol, there was an error in it...it had one ) too many in the metacity file, there should be a 0.27 within minutes on my PPA and coming soon in Intrepid
[15:32] <kwwii> Cimi: if I get time to work on anything you will be the first to know
[15:32] <kwwii> I am typing my fingers off trying to get things ready for the beta
[15:48] <_MMA_> Uhh... WTF? Has the highlight color been removed from tabs in Murrine or something?
[15:49] <_MMA_> My little blue stripe has been taken off tabs on the Studio theme. :(
[15:54] <popey> kwwii: yup fixed in 027 from your ppa, ta!
[16:02] <_MMA_> Cimi kwwii: See my last post. ^^^
[16:13] <Nece228> does human-murrine theme is faster?
[16:15] <kwwii> popey: excellent, thanks for the help
[16:15] <popey> np
[16:17] <aantn> thorwil: ping
[16:21] <thorwil> aantn: pong
[16:21] <aantn> thorwil: have you ever used Cool Iris?
[16:22] <thorwil> aantn: no, don't even know what it is
[16:23] <aantn> thorwil: it's a nifty little extension for firefox that displays bookmark thumbnails on a 3d wall
[16:23] <thorwil> _MMA_: think you will have the icon process finished by then? i could run with it in the 5 weeks and insist on the results when you come back ;)
[16:23] <aantn> thorwil: however, it gave me an idea related to our discussion about icons
[16:23] <aantn> thorwil: have you used iPhoto?
[16:23] <thorwil> aantn: no
[16:24] <aantn> thorwil: what the two have in common is zooming interfaces, either for pictures or websites
[16:25] <aantn> thorwil: I'm playing around with the idea of doing something similar with file browsing
[16:25] <thorwil> Nece228: would you please stop dropping in here and asking the same shit without any explanation again and again?
[16:25] <aantn> thorwil: you can compare it to the google maps interface
[16:26] <aantn> thorwil: if you zoom in on a folder (or city) you see individual files (or roads)
[16:27] <thorwil> aantn: if you want to do anything in the area of zooming interfaces, do a little research. there is huge pile of work about this in the hci field
[16:27] <_MMA_> thorwil: Yeah, I should have the templates finished and a call for submissions for a base set of 5 icons.
[16:27] <_MMA_> So it will be just waiting on submissions at that point.
[16:27] <_MMA_> s/5/6
[16:27] <aantn> thorwil: I didn't know that
[16:27] <DannyKing> hello
[16:28] <aantn> thorwil: I'll definitely look into it
[16:28] <thorwil> hi DannyKing
[16:28] <thorwil> aantn: "zooming interface" should be a good search term
[16:28] <Nece228> thorwil: isnt this a good explanations?
[16:29] <aantn> thorwil: yeah, I'll begin googling
[16:29] <Nece228> thorwil: i mean which has better performance
[16:30] <thorwil> Nece228: i think you already had a chat with Cimi about that. if he can't give you a satisfying answer, nobody here can
[16:30] <aantn> thorwil: also, can I display the mockup from your blog in a post; it'll link right back to you
[16:30] <Nece228> thorwil: i just wanna test results
[16:31] <thorwil> aantn: sure. most of my creations can be assumed to only require attribution
[16:32] <aantn> thorwil: ok
[16:32] <thorwil> Nece228: ok. you can be quite sure by now that nobody here has test results. also, when i asked if you notice a difference, you said no. if a user doesn't fell a difference, it doen't matter
[16:33] <Nece228> thorwil: why not? maybe at some things i can see results?
[16:34] <_MMA_> Nece228: thorwil knows what he's talking about. Take him at his word.
[16:34] <thorwil> Nece228: because a difference nobody perceives could as well not exist
[16:34] <Nece228> why theres no christian edition but theres muslim edition themes?
[16:35] <thorwil> Nece228: anyway, if you can't find benchmarks via google, you have to do them yourself. case closed
[16:35] <aantn> Nece228: there is a muslim edition ubuntu
[16:35] <_MMA_> Nece228: Because the CE guys haven't bothered to get their packages *in* the repos.
[16:35] <thorwil> for christian themes, no images had to be removed!!
[16:35] <aantn> but afaik, there's no Jewish Edition :(
[16:36] <_MMA_> aantn: Oh there was/is talk about it. ;)
[16:36] <aantn> _MMA_: really?
[16:36] <aantn> heh :)
[16:36] <Nece228> oh man if theyre gonna leave current human murrine theme in ibex i will cry
[16:36] <_MMA_> Yep. I think I shot that down pretty quick though.
[16:37]  * _MMA_ hands Nece228 a tissue. Oh well.
[16:37] <Nece228> and ill say: oh man ubuntu is doing same way as windwos
[16:37] <DannyKing> I'm working on a wooden icon theme, just for fun. Anyone want to see the early prototype? http://flickr.com/photos/danny-king/2866286095/
[16:37] <thorwil> DannyKing: seems a bit stiff and grainy ;)
[16:38] <_MMA_> Nece228: *sigh* This really isn't the place to complain. We've heard it all before. If you can offer solutions, we really don't care to hear the opinion.
[16:38] <Nece228> so ubuntu 8.10 will not have brand new theme, but it will have tweaked theme?
[16:38] <Nece228> _MMA_ dont try to escape from true
[16:39] <_MMA_> Nece228: True for you. It's an opinion we don't care to hear for the 1000th time.
[16:40] <_MMA_> DannyKing: I've seen it on GNOME-Look. I agree with some of the comments there about some things being hard to see at smaller resolutions. I do think it's a fun idea though.
[16:40] <Nece228> _MMA_ oh yeah? first ubuntu hardy theme was deffered, but now they are still too lazy to create new theme, they even dont have new icons
[16:41] <DannyKing> _MMA_: are you sure it was gnome look? I've not submitted it there. It's been on inkscapeforum.com though. thanks :)
[16:41] <popey> _MMA_: is it like this all the time in here? :(
[16:41] <thorwil> Nece228: please go and read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/KyudoGuidelines/Mindset. don't annoy productive people who actually _do_ stuff
[16:41] <_MMA_> popey: Only with people who are new, young and can't speak English well.
[16:42] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Oh hell! That was it. :P Duh.
[16:42] <thorwil> oh, those who can, can be as annoying
[16:43] <Nece228> _MMA_ hmm are you sure that beta will have new theme and icons?
[16:43] <_MMA_> It will not. Only tweaks. A new wallpaper at the least.
[16:44] <Nece228> _MMA_ "There's a lack of skilled and trained artists and designers in the Free Software world"
[16:44] <Nece228> _MMA_ "i didnt know that, sorry
[16:45] <Nece228> _MMA_ but theres many ideas, why they dont use one of that?
[16:45] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Sorry. I interact with so many people I forgot you from Inkscape. :)
[16:45] <DannyKing> Don't worry, I'm pretty new to the chanel :)
[16:46] <DannyKing> channel *
[16:46] <_MMA_> I knew the name, just not where from. Though it was only a couple of days ago. :)
[16:49] <_MMA_> DannyKing: You might be interested in this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet
[16:49] <_MMA_> Start of a new effort.
[16:49] <DannyKing> Thanks, I'll take a look
[16:50] <DannyKing> That looks really interesting, thanks :)
[16:52] <Nece228> _MMA_ but i think that ubuntu will lose many users
[16:55] <Nece228> world is getting worse and worse
[17:03] <thorwil> DannyKing: your monitor and tablet images are rather impressive. ubuntu-art is in dire need of skill such as yours
[17:03] <thorwil> http://flickr.com/photos/danny-king/2215444392/in/photostream/
[17:03] <thorwil> http://flickr.com/photos/danny-king/2215422492/in/photostream/
[17:04] <DannyKing> Thanks, very kind words :) It's just a hobby really, but I'm very interested in contributing to ubuntu if I can find the time. (I'm starting university in 10 days so I'm unsure of my workload)
[17:05] <DannyKing> But hopefully I'll get a theme done soon and I'll release it with a free licence
[17:05] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Sure. Stick around. Please join our mailing list. Most official things are done there.
[17:05] <thorwil> DannyKing: in that case, i have to recommend to you to wait until things have settled in for you there ;)
[17:05] <DannyKing> Will do :)
[17:07] <_MMA_> DannyKing: The Breathe icon set should fit limited schedules well and icons can be bite-sized. And the set will take some time to complete. We're in no rush.
[17:08] <DannyKing> Great, sounds fun
[17:09] <_MMA_> Should be. I'll have an official "call for help" soon for these icons. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Icons I gotta wrap up a couple of technicals 1st.
[17:10] <DannyKing> I really like that CD icon
[17:10] <DannyKing> Fantastic colours
[17:10] <_MMA_> We'll focus on a group of them at a time, but that should not limit what anyone wants to tackle. Just gives a bit of focus.
[17:11] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Well, do a bit of reading. Those are from an existing set we're trying to mix.
[17:12] <_MMA_> Oxygen (KDE set) with Ubuntu's Human.
[17:12] <DannyKing> Great. I'm definitely interested in helping out. I'm sure I'll have the time in a month or so
[17:12] <_MMA_> cool
[17:12] <DannyKing> I've gotta go, nice chatting to you all
[17:12] <_MMA_> later
[17:12]  * DannyKing is afk
[17:13] <Nece228> i dont understand some things
[17:13] <thorwil> same here
[17:13] <Nece228> murrine has glass look, but you can do absolutely same with clearlooks engine
[17:14] <Nece228> *absolutely same look
[17:15] <_MMA_> Nece228: Asking a question is a better way to get an answer.
[17:15] <Nece228> so why theres murrine?
[17:15] <Nece228> if you can have absolutely same thing with other engines
[17:16] <_MMA_> Nece228: Cimi is the author of Murrine and maintainer of Clearlooks. If he has time, he can reply.
[17:17] <Nece228> but i understand why theres developing version murrine transparency
[17:18] <Nece228> because it will be transparent
[17:19] <Nece228> i think ubuntu 8.10 should have more graphic
[17:19] <Nece228> more colors, everythink should be filled
[17:21] <Nece228> but i should say that human murrine looks very nice, its a great theme but wrong theme
[17:21] <_MMA_> Nece228: We all eagerly await you contribution to the future look and feel of Ubuntu. Look to the topic for how to get involved.
[17:22] <Nece228> when everythink will be filled, then you can say WOW!
[17:22] <Nece228> :P
[17:22] <thorwil> Nece228: how old are you?
[17:22] <Nece228> is this very important?
[17:22] <thorwil> yes
[17:23] <Nece228> thorwil: why you need to care about this?
[17:23] <thorwil> Nece228: because you sound and argue like a 12 year old
[17:24] <Nece228> thorwil: maybe but im not 12 years old
[17:24] <_MMA_> Nece228: Because you opinions show a lack of experience often associated with age.
[17:24] <Nece228> yeah, i know that i suck and im acting like a kid
[17:24] <Nece228> but im not
[17:26] <thorwil> welcome rsc-
[17:26] <rsc-> hey thorwil.
[17:27] <Nece228> thorwil: is this a good answer?
[17:27] <rsc-> whats going on? :)
[17:27] <thorwil> Nece228: only if you try to behave better now
[17:27] <_MMA_> rsc-: Babysitting. :)
[17:27] <thorwil> rsc-: writing forum posts
[17:27] <rsc-> babysitting what?
[17:28] <Nece228> thorwil: yeah sure, sometimes i just suck so you should ignore these posts
[17:28] <thorwil> rsc-: did you see that _MMA_ will be busy otherwise soon, for 5 weeks?
[17:28] <_MMA_> Nece228: Or I can kick/ban you instead? :)
[17:28] <rsc-> ah, yeah.
[17:28] <Nece228> _MMA_ you can ban me for a day
[17:29] <Nece228> _MMA_ :)
[17:29] <_MMA_> Nece228: It would be best if you exercise self control.
[17:29] <_MMA_> thorwil: So you were fine with the Breathe template as-is?
[17:31] <Cimi> _MMA_, yes
[17:31] <thorwil> rsc-: i'm wondering if we should specifically search for free software using talent, especially with Inkscape, make compliments and invite people
[17:31] <_MMA_> Cimi: Boooooooooo on you. :(
[17:31] <thorwil> rsc-: though this of course only after knowing a bit better how things go
[17:31]  * _MMA_ kicks Cimi in the butt and runs.
[17:31] <thorwil> _MMA_: i think you still need to update the text to explain how it works now
[17:31] <Cimi> :)
[17:32] <_MMA_> :)
[17:32] <_MMA_> thorwil: Ok. But the color swatches are fine?
[17:32] <Cimi> believe in me, they works better. Upgrade to the latest svn and adjust the lighborder ratio
[17:32] <rsc-> thorwil, i.e., target Inkscape/Gimp/Blender artists?
[17:32] <rsc-> yeah, why not. :)
[17:33] <Cimi> you won't have the blur but it will look more consistent
[17:33]  * Cimi is away, bb in a hour
[17:33] <rsc-> thorwil, i'm thinking there must be some sort of incentive for people to participate.
[17:33] <thorwil> _MMA_: i guess. if i actually start to work on the set, things might develop differently ... :)
[17:33] <rsc-> especially with "no default themes" out of the window.
[17:34] <rsc-> most people contribute to FLOSS projects because they use it, and want to improve something they don't like (just an assumption here).
[17:35] <_MMA_> thorwil: Well once we start to generate work it will become increasingly hard to make changes. I'll update the text. and make the "call for help" announcement.
[17:35] <thorwil> rsc-: a little sweet talk, being asked personally ... maybe also the idea of being part of an elite
[17:35] <thorwil> rsc-: though the later could also hurt us
[17:35] <rsc-> haha, there's an idea.
[17:36] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Looking through your screenshots, Are you using Ubuntu Studio, or just the theme? (a question for when you return)
[17:36] <rsc-> I think the best time to recruit is when there's some initial groundwork done that defines the direction.
[17:36] <thorwil> rsc-: agreed
[17:37] <thorwil> _MMA_: yes. i bet we will need iterations, anyway
[17:37] <_MMA_> thorwil: Sure. I'm just trying to take care of what I can now. You know.
[17:38] <rsc-> thorwil, whatcha think will have to be done first?
[17:38] <thorwil> rsc-: if this was a project with students, i would perhaps ask them to create mood pictures about ubuntu. an to create portraits of memebers of our target audience
[17:38] <rsc-> my idea would be a wallpaper or some slightly-unrelated artwork (in that example, a wallpaper will not directly define the desktop theme, the packaging of the ubuntu cd, whatever)
[17:38] <rsc-> there, yeah. eactly. :)
[17:39] <rsc-> something to set the mood, but not necessarily a part of the actual output.
[17:40] <rsc-> btw, here's some silly concept I was working at awhile ago: http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/bamboo.png (no specific direction, just "lets try some junk out and see if something isnpiring can come out of it")
[17:40] <rsc-> oopsie, http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/bamboo.jpg
[17:40] <thorwil> rsc-: maybe we should roughly pre-define the message and then indeed ask for moods and portraits. of course i'm worried about low participation
[17:41] <rsc-> :P of course, participation
[17:41] <rsc-> I would say, recruit with bite-sized tasks.
[17:42] <rsc-> i.e., not "come and be a part of the collosal project kyudo", but "come and create mood portraits with us"
[17:42] <_MMA_> rsc-: Slick. That might actually be pretty close to possible.
[17:42] <rsc-> _MMA_, a little silly-looking though.
[17:42] <rsc-> :)
[17:43] <thorwil> rsc-: bamboo might have quite much of what we will be looking for :)
[17:43]  * thorwil -> dinner
[17:43] <rsc-> thorwil, yeah, but maybe not that overbearingly woody (with wood grain all over the gtk!)
[17:43] <rsc-> :)
[17:43] <_MMA_> rsc-: I don't think so actually. Maybe a different choice for wood textures, but has a nice feel overall.
[17:44] <_MMA_> rsc-: Maybe just remove the texture on what would be the toolbar icons background.
[17:44] <rsc-> hehe, thanks.
[17:44] <rsc-> I was also thinking maybe replace the wood with something like metal, inspired by the look of softsynth programs (mac/win/vst/etc). something for ubuntu studio, perhaps. :)
[17:45] <_MMA_> Possible. The direction is open for Jaunty. But I fear the metal thing would draw a direct comparison to Mac.
[17:46] <rsc-> was thinking more along the lines of http://www.harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/Propellerhead/Docs/ReBirth-RB-338/ReBirth.jpg
[17:46] <rsc-> ;)
[17:46] <rsc-> but i dont know. just ideas for now :)
[17:46] <_MMA_> rsc-: I love the bamboo wallpaper you have. I could see this as inspiration for our communities effort for Jaunty.
[17:47] <rsc-> _MMA_, oh yeah. I thought so too when I found it.
[17:47] <_MMA_> rsc-: How big is the wallpaper and is it under a free license?
[17:47] <_MMA_> CC or something.
[17:47] <Nece228> gta san andreas lags with wine, i disabled pixel shade but the problem didnt gone, my video card is radeon 9600 pro 256 im using fglrx. in windows everythinks fine
[17:48] <_MMA_> Nece228: Wrong channel?
[17:48] <Nece228> _MMA_ im sorry i did a mistake
[17:48] <Nece228> _MMA_ i wanted to paste it to winehq lol
[17:48] <rsc-> _MMA_, its 4.5mb. I got it from a wallpack from DA and i recolored it, hold on
[17:49] <_MMA_> rsc-: Sure.
[17:50] <_MMA_> Cimi: My slight spacing between tabs has gone as well. Intentional?
[17:51]  * _MMA_ is around but must go make lunch.
[17:51] <DannyKing> _MMA_: On that screenshot I'm running Ubuntu (vanilla) hardy with the studio theme, although I run studio on my laptop
[17:52] <rsc-> _MMA_, I think it's from here: www.deviantart.com/deviation/90409241
[17:52] <rsc-> if not there, then one of her other submissions.
[17:52] <rsc-> not sure on the licensing details, though
[17:52] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Cool. It's always nice to see it being used. I'm sure Studio has given me some gray. :)
[17:53] <rsc-> _MMA_, http://customize.org/screenshots/57766
[17:53] <rsc-> here's another take on the wood grain idea.
[17:53] <_MMA_> rsc-: Looks like the author has retained the rights. Ill look further in 10 mins or so.
[17:53] <_MMA_> brb
[17:55] <rsc-> what do you need the open license for?
[17:56] <rsc-> it's not like it'll be a wallpaper.
[17:56] <rsc-> i mean, submitted as a community wallpaper
[17:56] <rsc-> ...if the intent is just to inspire the mood. :)
[17:56] <rsc-> anyway, maybe it's time we setup our own wiki for the effort.
[18:01] <Cimi> _MMA_, this is not specified by murrine, but from the gtkrc
[18:01] <Cimi> anyway firefox overrides the gtkrc removing the spacing
[18:01] <Cimi> taboverlap is the int value
[18:01] <Cimi> GtkNotebook:: taboverlap =
[18:01] <Cimi> IIRC
[18:05] <_MMA_> Cimi: On FF sure, I see this in Pidgin. The spacing between tabs has changed, I think I had it set to 1px. Ill look again in a sec. Maybe Im missing something.
[18:06] <_MMA_> rsc-: Inspiration sure. It's a nice wallpaper and we *might* want to use it. :) We can always make our own I guess.
[18:08] <_MMA_> rsc-: And Ive seen the customize.org pic. Looks nice. I like the softer look to the GTK theme.
[18:10] <_MMA_> rsc-: Is the GTK/Metacity real?
[18:23] <rsc-> _MMA_, any thoughts on getting Kyudo's own wiki (or something similar)? :)
[18:24] <_MMA_> rsc-: As this is still an effort within the Ubuntu community, where it is is fine.
[18:24] <_MMA_> Or did you mean something else?
[18:25] <rsc-> _MMA_, well, would it be fine to start 50+ new pages for the effort on the ubuntu wiki?
[18:25] <_MMA_> For?
[18:25] <rsc-> I mean, for Kyudo
[18:26] <_MMA_> But for what aspects of it?
[18:26] <rsc-> well, as it grows, there's gotta be some repository for people to submit their entries and such.
[18:26] <_MMA_> Generally, there's nothing we cant have alot of pages. I jsut cant think why we would need to have 'em.
[18:26] <rsc-> okay
[18:27] <_MMA_> Kyudo is just guidelines.
[18:27] <rsc-> mm, alright.
[18:27] <rsc-> hehe, sorry, i'm not sure on the structure of the wiki yet.
[18:27] <_MMA_> np
[18:28] <rsc-> for a moment there I thought the /Artwork area is just for posting artworks for the releases, etc
[18:28] <_MMA_> Any effort we as a community rallies around will simply use them. The effort will get it's own page. Like: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BambooTheme or something.
[18:28] <rsc-> oh, alright
[18:29] <_MMA_> But this is only for focused efforts. Anyone is still free to create however they like.
[18:30] <rsc-> okay.
[18:34] <thorwil> _MMA_, rsc- Kyudo is not meant to be just guidelines from my site. it should flow into process into results
[18:35] <thorwil> so there could be artwork subpages there.
[18:36] <thorwil> rsc-: the only reasons for a standalone wiki i can think of is a nice url and custom theme. not worth the trouble, cost and disassociation from ubuntu
[18:36] <thorwil> rsc-: even for inspirational material, we better have the right to distribute ...
[18:45] <Cimi> _MMA_, I haven't changed anything in the code to justify your issue
[18:45] <Cimi> it could just be a setting inside the gtkrc
[18:56] <rsc-> thorwil, so how soon can we see the first volley for Kyudo?
[18:56] <rsc-> i.e., an invitation for the community to participate with some visuals
[18:57] <thorwil> rsc-: i am thinking about doing that right now :)
[18:57] <rsc-> lovely :)
[18:57] <thorwil> rsc-: you may make that announcment, too, if you like ^^
[18:58] <Nece228> what do you think this mockup? http://www.linuxloop.com/news/2008/06/28/interesting-early-artwork-for-intrepid-ibex/
[18:58] <rsc-> thorwil, haha im not sure what to announce :)
[18:58] <Nece228> i like first one theme
[18:58] <rsc-> nece: "Early"? more like "late" :P
[18:58] <rsc-> kidding
[18:59] <Nece228> its colorful, simple, and it looks modern
[18:59] <rsc-> oh, they are early
[18:59] <rsc-> im personally not a big fan of any of the latter 3.
[18:59] <Nece228> rsc- well its pretty old mockup but i think its great
[18:59] <Nece228> but still i think gelatin theme would be best choice
[19:00] <rsc-> Kith Intrepid was made into Didymous, if i remember right
[19:00] <thorwil> rsc-: i think i will ask for mood boards and paintings about what ubuntu means and the associated feeling. plus portraits of target audience members.
[19:00] <rsc-> i wasn't really sure about the color. perhaps it's an assumption based on my tastes, but it seems like a color that people would want to change right away
[19:01] <rsc-> thorwil, ah. I think you're looking for personas.
[19:01] <rsc-> while I have a bit of a marketing background, I'm still clueless as to how to draw the persona for the target audience. bummer
[19:01] <thorwil> rsc-: i considered to set some size, but maybe i better leave that open, excpet saying that it should be reasonable for online viewing
[19:02] <thorwil> rsc-: i do know the term personas and yes. now if i should use that term now? rather not :)
[19:03] <rsc-> why not? :) haha
[19:04] <rsc-> too much marketing stigma associated with it?
[19:04] <thorwil> ok then, term and explanation
[19:04] <rsc-> but anyway, I've worked with making some of these http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/8031/screenshot1uc8.png but I'm *so* not sure on how to make one for Ubuntu (sigh)
[19:04] <rsc-> but either way, there must be *some* way to describe the audience.
[19:04] <rsc-> whether with that sort of illustration or not.
[19:04] <thorwil> rsc-: this is kinda fitting http://www.lifeclever.com/5-reasons-to-design-with-mood-boards/
[19:06] <rsc-> and I'm afraid of ending up with "Tim is a 22 year old guy with a job as GeekSquad living in his mother's basement" :p
[19:06] <thorwil> rsc-: i had more artistic takes in mind, not text. visual ideas about people with environment and what they do and like
[19:07] <rsc-> http://www.flickr.com/groups/inspirationboards/pool/ that's nice.
[19:07] <rsc-> thorwil, that's nice.
[19:07] <rsc-> i'd be very curious as to how that can turn out. :)
[19:08] <thorwil> rsc-: i have to admit that i have no clue how to get at that myself. but i can pretend that i hold it back to not set a direction or to intimidate others ;)
[19:11] <rsc-> haha.
[19:13] <rsc-> anyway, with the personas example awhile ago, I just sparked a little thought for one persona:
[19:14] <rsc-> college student in early 20s / uses computer in his dorm to do his school paper work, surf the 'net / his laptop doubles has his entertainment center, he watches movies with it / needs to be around a lot, with many of his fellow students looking at his PC wherever he is
[19:15] <rsc-> I just thought of that now, it sorta fits the guidelines you defined in the  Foundation document.
[19:16] <thorwil> rsc-: yes. actually ubuntu should have personas
[19:16] <rsc-> how about a personas brainstorming page?
[19:16] <thorwil> rsc-: however, i have a feeling that they would carry quite a bit that does nothing for us right now :)
[19:17] <thorwil> rsc-: i'd be fine with that
[19:17] <rsc-> hehe, okay.
[19:17] <rsc-> somethign like Artwork/KyudoGuidelines/Personas ? (or /Audience)
[19:18] <thorwil> rsc-: yes, no  :)
[19:18] <rsc-> or would that be stepping on your territory? :)
[19:18] <rsc-> cool.
[19:18] <thorwil> rsc-: no. i need some people to take territory away! ;)
[19:18] <_MMA_> #rockbox
[19:18] <_MMA_> gah
[19:19] <rsc-> on an artwork-unrelated bit, will an iPod Touch be compatible with libgpod and the apps that use it? :P I'm thinking of getting one :p
[19:19] <thorwil> rsc-: so far this has been my baby, but it can't stay that way if it shall succeed. at some point it must be possible that i can pull back without things stopping. i do expect that to take months, though
[19:20] <rsc-> okay.
[19:20] <thorwil> rsc-: so Artwork/KyudoGuidelines/Personas is fine. add a link to the main page if you do that
[19:22] <Cimi> thorwil, your mockup could be implemented in murrine quite easily
[19:23] <rsc-> ooh what mockup?
[19:23] <rsc-> i wanna see
[19:23] <rsc-> :)
[19:23] <Cimi> even though I'm not in love with everything
[19:23] <thorwil> Cimi: hmm? which mockup?
[19:24] <Cimi> thorwil, something you posted days ago
[19:25]  * Cimi dinner
[19:25] <thorwil> Cimi: the only theme mockup i posted myself here is http://thorwil.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/ubuntu_theme_32.jpg
[19:26] <Cimi> thorwil, that one
[19:26] <thorwil> except for all the changes to Nautilus, then :)
[19:27] <Cimi> I mean buttons and similar
[19:27] <thorwil> ok
[19:27] <rsc-> Cimi, tabs?
[19:27] <Cimi> not centered
[19:27] <rsc-> those are some nice looking tabs.
[19:27] <rsc-> oh.
[19:27] <rsc-> bummer.
[19:27] <rsc-> :)
[19:27] <Cimi> but they works
[19:30] <rsc-> what about the checkboxes?
[19:35] <thorwil> rsc-: the idea behind those checkboxes was to make them look less like buttons / widgets by themselves, to improve the connection to the label
[19:36] <thorwil> rsc-: because the whole label is used as target area, but people tend to aim at that little part
[19:36] <rsc-> thorwil, would it be possible without pixmaps? :)
[19:37] <thorwil> later on spawned a different take on these widgets
[19:37] <thorwil> rsc-: pixmaps or custom code, i would think
[19:41] <thorwil> rsc-: pixmaps or custom code, i would think (just in case you missed that)
[19:51] <Nece228> ubuntu ibex should have these icons
[19:51] <Nece228> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Intrepid_Ibex_Icons_-_Art_Team
[19:51] <thorwil> oh wow, we now have a "new design still not implemented" bug in LP
[19:52] <rsc-> thorwil, cute. link :)
[19:52] <thorwil> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/272832
[19:53] <_MMA_> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/human-theme/+bug/272832
[19:53] <rsc-> nvm. found it
[19:53] <rsc-> oh there it is
[19:53]  * _MMA_ was just looking as well.
[19:53] <Nece228> oh man why i dont know so much :/
[19:54] <_MMA_> Nece228: Because you don't ask questions 1st. ;)
[19:55] <rsc-> Nece228, they're not ready for the new release, unfortunately.
[19:55] <Nece228> _MMA_ i dont have much time for questions
[19:56] <_MMA_> Nece228: Then you are doomed to be uninformed,
[19:57] <Nece228> so newhuman will be default
[19:57] <rsc-> no, human will be
[19:57] <kwwii> you don't know that for certain, things can still change
[19:58] <kwwii> but I doubt it
[19:59] <thorwil> _MMA_, kwwii: any input regading a call for mood boards / drawing and persona portraits?
[19:59] <Nece228> i have to go sleep
[19:59] <Nece228> tommorow hard day
[19:59] <Nece228> good night
[19:59] <kwwii> thorwil: not as such
[20:00] <_MMA_> Thank Jeebus. Damn kids.
[20:00] <_MMA_> (in my best old cranky man voice)
[20:01]  * thorwil tries voodoo to change Nece's timezone to one where he will sleep when thorwil's here
[20:01] <_MMA_> thorwil: I'm sorry. I'm still wrapping my head around the concept as I deal with my own stuff here.
[20:02] <thorwil> _MMA_: np. just trying to keep you in :)
[20:02] <_MMA_> :)
[20:03] <rsc-> who's nece anyway
[20:03] <rsc-> ?
[20:03] <rsc-> and why's he being such a sourpuss?
[20:03] <thorwil> rsc-: how would we know?
[20:03] <rsc-> heh :)
[20:06] <zniavre> hello can i ask a critic about a gdm try  (im quite sure you can ) ?  :-D
[20:06] <thorwil> zniavre: don't ask to ask, just ask, please :)
[20:07] <zniavre> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/187396/screenshot12.png    i just asked  to show ...
[20:08] <thorwil> zniavre: the symbols on the right, power-off and reboot are reasonably clear (for a technical audience), but what is the arrow?
[20:09] <zniavre> session options
[20:10] <thorwil> zniavre: the 3d circle of friends seems unnecessary. its perspective works against the impression of a smooth rounded surface below it
[20:10] <_MMA_> zniavre: It's interesting. I wouldn't use the wood background if you plan to make this public. There's no license to it and the source author has been disputed.
[20:10]  * _MMA_ agrees with thorwil's last post.
[20:12] <zniavre> ok i see for the logo's
[20:12] <thorwil> zniavre: the strong orange pulls attention to the sides, but that's not the important part. also, color perspective works against you, as if you jsut place orange and blue next to each other, the orange will seem to stand in front of the blue
[20:13] <thorwil> zniavre: the basic shapes and the idea of penetration do have potential
[20:15] <zniavre> thank you i will try to improve it if i can
[20:16] <thorwil> zniavre: np. i thank you for asking :)
[20:17] <zniavre> this license on background is difficult for me to understand
[20:18] <thorwil> zniavre: if you are not told otherwise by the author or rights-holder of a work, you do not have the right/permission to redistribute it
[20:18] <zniavre> even resized ?
[20:19] <zniavre> silly question forget it
[20:19] <zniavre> :o)
[20:19] <thorwil> doesn't matter. there's a grey area in thumbnailing like google does it
[20:20] <_MMA_> I really don't know why someone hasn't just made a new one. It would be easy enough to do.
[20:20] <zniavre> wich license should be used to be as free as possible?
[20:21] <zniavre> if someone want to make another wood wall
[20:21] <thorwil> zniavre: freeest of all is public domain, it means giving up all rights / granting all right to everyone
[20:21] <_MMA_> zniavre: Public Domain I guess?
[20:22] <zniavre> ok  thank you
[20:22] <thorwil> zniavre: then if you want to be given credit, you can use Creative Commons Attribution
[20:31] <thorwil> rsc-: just send out the mail. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/KyudoGuidelines/Portraits  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/KyudoGuidelines/Mood
[20:39] <thorwil> idiotic thread of the day: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=929828
[20:39] <thorwil> must be our friend Nece-something
[20:41] <_MMA_> No doubt.
[20:42] <thorwil> how long until troll article on digg? ^^
[20:46]  * _MMA_ shrugs.
[20:50] <rsc-> sigh
[20:50] <rsc-> i can see that thread growing to have a lot of whiners
[20:50] <thorwil> yeah. they can whine to each other, though :)
[20:51] <_MMA_> thorwil: Though not perfect, this: http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/floor_gray.png from this: http://www.hometownimprovements.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/DSCF1354.JPG
[20:51] <_MMA_> Should be altered and obscure enough to not matter
[20:51] <_MMA_> Just a quicky in any case.
[20:52] <thorwil> _MMA_: i would have to underline the not perfect, but i'm not hot on that wood floor thing, anyway ;)
[20:54] <_MMA_> I'm just thinking of making a free replacement all the kids can use . ;)
[20:54] <thorwil> _MMA_: you're too kind :)
[20:55] <_MMA_> I tend to like specific, bite-sized things I can quickly tackle.
[20:57] <thorwil> as do i, as you can clearly see from my latest undertakings ;)
[20:57] <rsc-> _MMA_: http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9936/bg2el1.jpg
[20:57] <rsc-> like that?
[20:57] <rsc-> :p
[20:57] <rsc-> oh wait
[20:57] <rsc-> that is the same thing
[20:57] <rsc-> oops.
[20:57] <rsc-> err
[20:57] <rsc-> damn, nevermind
[20:58] <_MMA_> ;)
[20:58] <thorwil> rsc-: lost a color channel? :)
[20:59] <_MMA_> thorwil: In the end Ill most likely make something up in SVG and put it out there.
[21:00] <rsc-> thorwil, i dont kow, i just found it somewhere :)
[21:00] <thorwil> i wonder if i should add some more help on the Portrait and Mood pages, but i'll be gone in a few minutes
[21:00] <thorwil> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=5855162#post5855162
[21:01]  * thorwil waves to aantn 
[21:01] <thorwil> pingback pingpong
[21:03] <aantn> hey thorwil!
[21:06] <rsc-> thorwil, yeah, i think it needs a little more explanation.
[21:06] <rsc-> im not sure everyone knows what a mood board is.
[21:06] <rsc-> and how it can be useful
[21:07] <thorwil> rsc-: would be glad if you could jump in there
[21:07] <rsc-> unfortunately ive gotta go as well
[21:07] <rsc-> :)
[21:07] <rsc-> 4am here
[21:08] <thorwil> heh
[21:12] <thorwil> good night! :)
[21:25] <kwwii> _MMA_: you will be happy to know that I am working on the human icon theme atm and just touched up your version of the human-computer icon
[21:25] <kwwii> I will now include it...thanks for your contribution :-)
[21:26] <_MMA_> :D
[21:26] <_MMA_> I contribute!!
[21:26] <kwwii> I will put your name in the authors file :D now you are famous!
[21:26] <kwwii> now that you are a real member of the team, take a look at the bug list, it is quite long :-)
[21:27] <_MMA_> Free software rockstar.
[21:27] <rsc-> LOL
[21:40]  * _MMA_ heads off for a bit to play with his kids.