[01:09] <acoc> hey guys, my name is John and I'm working on a derivative to ubuntu (OzOs) using the enlightenment e17 windows manager
[01:09] <acoc> I've spent the day reading alot of the wiki pages, but I'm a little confused about what you do with the germinate output and where are the scipts that create the cd-build logs for the different flavors
[01:11] <cjwatson> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/cdimage/mainline/
[01:12] <cjwatson> (and also check out the other bits listed in configs/devel)
[01:12] <cjwatson> bin/run-germinate and bin/germinate-to-tasks deal with running germinate and feeding its output to debian-cd
[01:13] <cjwatson> germinate gives us a dependency-expanded list of packages which can reliably be fed to debian-cd so that it can copy in all the .deb files that are needed without having to do dependency expansion itself
[01:13] <acoc> cjwatson, thank you and I appreciate your documentation, it's been very helpful
[01:13] <cjwatson> I confess to not having put as much effort into documenting cdimage as I probably should have done
[01:36] <stweston> does anyone know how to make a LiveUSB drive from a Mac using an iPod?
[01:38] <stweston> anyone?
[01:46] <acoc> cjwatson, is britney a project I'm having trouble finding it within bzr
[01:47] <cjwatson> like I say, check out the bits in configs/devel
[01:47] <cjwatson> e.g. 'bzr get http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/britney/cdimage/ britney'
[01:47] <cjwatson> you're probably best off fetching a local copy and studying it there rather than browsing the web copy, if the latter is what you're doing
[01:48] <acoc> Ok thanks I'm getting used to the bazaar system, before I was using the lp: system within bzr and there wasn't one for britney
[01:48] <stweston> does anyone know how to make a LiveUSB drive from a Mac?
[01:49] <cjwatson> acoc: right, I've never got round to putting it on Launchpad
[01:49] <cjwatson> stweston: please don't repeat questions at 10-minute intervals
[01:49] <stweston> sorry.
[01:49] <cjwatson> stweston: personally I don't know; I don't think we have a whole lot of Mac expertise here
[01:49] <stweston> okay
[01:49] <stweston> I'll try somewhere else.
[01:50] <cjwatson> sorry I can't help
[01:50] <acoc> cjwatson: alright makes sense, thanks again
[01:50] <stweston> that's fine... just need help, that's all.
[02:09] <CIA-50> hw-detect: TheMuso * r86 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog disk-detect.sh):
[02:09] <CIA-50> hw-detect: * disk-detect.sh: Do not pass the complete device node path to
[02:09] <CIA-50> hw-detect:  dmraid-activate, since it no longer uses basename.
[02:10] <CIA-50> hw-detect: TheMuso * r87 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.63ubuntu3
[03:52] <stweston> it WAS my CD-R drive!
[03:52] <stweston> I'm successfully installing Ubuntu Server as we speak
[03:53]  * stweston is proud
[03:55] <TheMuso> stweston: Thats good to hear.
[03:56] <stweston> do you know how to get an ethernet cable detected in Server?
[03:56] <TheMuso> stweston: What do you mean? If the network card is discovered and a cable is plugged in, it should just use it.
[03:56] <stweston> how does the network card get discovered?
[03:57] <stweston> what exactly is a network card, anyway?
[03:57] <stweston> (pardon the newbishness)
[03:57] <stweston> and furthermore, is the network card the same as the ethernet card?
[03:57] <TheMuso> Yes the network card and the ethernet card are the same thing.
[03:57] <stweston> okay
[03:58] <stweston> then it should be discoverable.
[03:58] <stweston> I think
[03:58] <TheMuso> When the installer boots, once its found the CD, it attempts to find any network/ethernet hardware. If it can find it, it will attempt to use it by fetching an IP address from over the network.
[03:58] <stweston> and the light turns on...
[03:58] <TheMuso> Yes thats right.
[03:58] <TheMuso> Depending on the network card. Some cards enable the light as soon as the computer boots and a cable is connected.
[03:58] <stweston> oh.
[03:58] <stweston> I see.
[03:59] <stweston> so, does that mean I need to double-check the connection to the card?
[03:59] <TheMuso> If you are finding that a network cannot be found, yes it would help.
[03:59] <stweston> okay
[04:00] <stweston> double-checking. BRB
[04:00] <stweston> it SHOULD be working.
[04:01] <stweston> fyi, it's connected to my Mac, which is connected via Wi-Fi
[04:01] <stweston> not sure who gave me that tip
[04:03] <stweston> I wonder if it should have the wireless B adapter or not...
[04:03] <stweston> or does that not matter?
[04:04] <stweston> okay. that's plugged in. gonna try again.
[04:05] <stweston> should I maybe select "do not config. at this time"?
[04:05] <stweston> or would that make it harder?
[04:06] <TheMuso> stweston: If you can configure the network during the install, it makes things easier later.
[04:06] <stweston> okay
[04:06] <TheMuso> stweston: How do you have your mac set up? Is it bridging the two connections, or is it sharing the wireless connectino like a net connection?
[04:06] <stweston> TheMuso: so, then, what do you suggest? I have wireless AND ethernet connected, but nothing's working.
[04:06] <stweston> it's bridging... I think.
[04:07] <TheMuso> Ok I suggest you double-check that you set it up right.
[04:07] <stweston> it's getting the wi-fi, then sending thru ehternet to the computer, if that's your question.
[04:07]  * TheMuso has OS X handy and doesn't remember seeing anything related to bridging in the network config.
[04:07] <stweston> how, and where?
[04:07] <stweston> oh...
[04:08] <stweston> wait - what's the DHCP client ID?
[04:08] <stweston> 'cuz the server searches for that.
[04:08] <stweston> the DHCP, I mean.
[04:09] <TheMuso> A dhcp hostname shouldn't make a difference. Again it comes back to how you have set things up in OS X.
[04:10]  * TheMuso goes into OS X to have a look for himself.
[04:11] <stweston> okay
[04:12]  * stweston hopes desperately for a solution to the network problem
[04:13] <TheMuso> stweston: What version of OS X are you using?
[04:13] <stweston> 10.5
[04:13] <stweston> does it matter?
[04:13] <TheMuso> Not now it doesn't.
[04:13] <stweston> okay
[04:13] <stweston> LOL
[04:13] <TheMuso> At least I'll be able to tell you what to set up.
[04:13] <stweston> all right!
[04:14] <stweston> and we have wireless N router, BTW
[04:15] <TheMuso> stweston: What you want to do, is go into system preferences, and then go into sharing.
[04:15] <stweston> okay
[04:16] <stweston> then?
[04:16] <TheMuso> Then you need to select airport as the connection that needs to be shared.
[04:16] <stweston> all right.
[04:16] <TheMuso> Then check the box next to ethernet for the connection you want to be usable via net sharing.
[04:16] <TheMuso> Hope this makes sense.
[04:16] <stweston> it doesn't show AirPort
[04:16] <stweston> what about Web?
[04:16] <TheMuso> As for bridging, I see nothing about that in any preferences. I'll have to google for that one.
[04:17] <TheMuso> What otions are in the popup list?
[04:17] <stweston> popup list?
[04:17] <TheMuso> The popup list next to "share your connection from:"
[04:17] <stweston> ...
[04:17] <stweston> doesn't show that.
[04:17] <stweston> you sure it's the sharing folder icon?
[04:17] <TheMuso> You need to make sure that internet sharing is hilighted in the list on the left of the sharing preferences window.
[04:18] <stweston> ok
[04:18] <TheMuso> I have it open right next to me.
[04:18] <stweston> all right
[04:18] <stweston> it's done
[04:18] <TheMuso> then you need to check the box next to "internet sharing" in the list on the left./
[04:18] <stweston> that's done, too
[04:18] <stweston> anything else?
[04:19] <stweston> or should I try it now?
[04:19] <TheMuso> Is ethernet checked in the list next to "to computers using"
[04:19] <stweston> wait - where?
[04:19] <stweston> oh. yes
[04:19] <stweston> I mean, try the internet on server?
[04:20] <TheMuso> Try and run the installer. It shoudl attempt to get an address. If it does, it will prompt you to enter a host name.
[04:20] <stweston> okay
[04:20] <stweston> it's slower, I think.
[04:20] <stweston> done!
[04:20] <stweston> what's the hostname?
[04:21] <TheMuso> whatever you want it to be.
[04:21] <stweston> so, I choose?
[04:21] <TheMuso> Yes.,
[04:21] <stweston> okay
[04:21] <stweston> time zone selected.
[04:21] <stweston> thanks!
[04:22] <TheMuso> No problem.
[04:22] <stweston> now - for the partitioner...
[04:22] <TheMuso> However you want to do it.
[04:22] <stweston> I want nothing form Windows on there.
[04:22] <stweston> meaning "use entire disk"?
[04:22] <TheMuso> Yes that is fine.
[04:22] <stweston> okayt
[04:22] <stweston> and what's LVM?
[04:23] <stweston> hello?
[04:24] <TheMuso> Don't worry about it at this point, just use entire disk.
[04:24] <stweston> okay
[04:24] <stweston> installing!
[04:24] <TheMuso> I suggest googling for LVM or Logical Volume Management if you are interested.
[04:24] <stweston> okay
[04:25] <stweston> thanks again
[04:26] <TheMuso> You're welcome.
[04:26] <stweston> now, what's the command for installing the xubuntu GUI?
[04:26] <stweston> because I didn't have the disk
[04:27] <TheMuso> stweston: How about you get ubuntu server installed first, and then I suggest you go over to the #ubuntu channel to ask that, as this channel is only for installer related development and questions.
[04:27] <stweston> all right
[04:27] <stweston> or #xubuntu, right?
[04:28] <TheMuso> Either will do.
[04:28] <stweston> okay
[04:28] <stweston> thanks!
[04:28] <stweston> I'll hang around, in case I have any more questions. k?
[04:30] <stweston> I'm taking that as an "I guess".
[04:31] <TheMuso> I guess thats fine. Note that I am busy doing other things, so I may not get to any questions you have right away.
[04:31] <stweston> okay
[04:31] <stweston> sounds fine
[04:31] <stweston> I'm just happy
[04:31]  * stweston is overjoyed
[04:46] <stweston> it's done installing!
[04:48] <stweston> thanks for all the help
[04:48] <stweston> see ya
[06:00] <CIA-50> usb-creator: evand * r24 usb-creator/ (debian/changelog scripts/install.py usbcreator/backend.py):
[06:00] <CIA-50> usb-creator: * Update percentage by bytes, not files copied.
[06:00] <CIA-50> usb-creator: * Remove files and directories that we're going to write to beforehand.
[06:54] <CIA-50> usb-creator: evand * r25 usb-creator/ (debian/changelog usbcreator/gtk_frontend.py):
[06:54] <CIA-50> usb-creator: Notify the user that they need to insert an USB stick when none are
[06:54] <CIA-50> usb-creator: available (LP: #267794).
[06:56] <CIA-50> usb-creator: evand * r26 usb-creator/debian/changelog: Add bug reference for LP 269037.
[07:03] <CIA-50> usb-creator: evand * r27 usb-creator/ (bin/usb-creator debian/changelog debian/rules): Revert the version autogeneration from cdbs hackery. It was crazy and updating the version number in two places isn't too much to bear at the moment.
[07:11] <CIA-50> usb-creator: evand * r28 usb-creator/debian/changelog: releasing version 0.1.5
[09:26] <CIA-50> usb-creator: evand * r29 usb-creator/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
[09:26] <CIA-50> usb-creator: * Write the log file to SUDO_USER's home directory, not root's.
[09:26] <CIA-50> usb-creator: * Start the file chooser in SUDO_USER's home directory (LP: #273642).
[09:26] <CIA-50> usb-creator: * Show a warning dialog when an ISO image cannot be used (LP: #272415).
[09:31] <persia> evand: Might it be interesting to store the log in /var/log/ somewhere, rather than in /home/${SUDO_USER}/ ?
[09:32] <persia> Also, perhaps only start in SUDO_USER's home directory if the tool was launched from the .desktop file?  In the case where it was launched from the command line, starting from . might be preferable (or at least I keep a ~/src/images/ directory: no idea if others do that)
[09:33] <evand> persia: hrm, good point.  I'll digest that thought when I wake back up.
[09:33] <evand> cheers
[09:33] <persia> evand: No rush or anything :)  Minor points both.
[14:07] <CIA-50> finish-install: cjwatson * r821 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog finish-install.d/90console):
[14:07] <CIA-50> finish-install: Remove -8 (if present) from getty options for serial terminals
[14:07] <CIA-50> finish-install: (LP: #273189).
[14:07] <CIA-50> finish-install: cjwatson * r822 ubuntu/debian/control: Maintainer and Vcs-Bzr for Ubuntu
[14:16] <TheMuso> Yay! Other operating systems should now be detectable and bootable from grub after d-i is finished.
[14:16] <TheMuso> on dmraid arrays.
[14:58] <kirkland> cjwatson: hey there, can you sponsor the virt-host seed changes, or should i ask someone else, such as soren?
[14:58] <evand> cjwatson: Is there anyone I can prod to look at the MIR for usb-creator?  Would that be pitti and doko?
[14:59] <soren> evand: They are the MIR team, yes.
[14:59] <evand> soren: noted, thanks
[15:01] <cjwatson> kirkland: what's the branch name again?
[15:02] <kirkland> cjwatson: lp:~kirkland/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.intrepid.virtualization-host
[15:07] <cjwatson> ok
[15:42] <cjwatson> kirkland: you need to add virt-host to server-ship's dependencies too, otherwise it won't end up on the server CD
[15:43] <kirkland> cjwatson: ah
[15:43] <cjwatson> in STRUCTURE
[15:44] <kirkland> cjwatson: oh, i missed that in the rename
[15:45] <kirkland> cjwatson: 1334 pushed
[15:50] <soren> cjwatson: I've previously had a bit of a talk with BenC about which modules belong in which udebs... What sparked the discussion is the fact that it's currently not possible to netboot if you're using virtio nic's, because not all the required modules are available in a netboot environment.
[15:50] <cjwatson> kirkland: oh, no, I didn't mean to add it to the server-ship file
[15:50] <cjwatson> kirkland: I meant to add it to the line starting with server-ship: in STRUCTURE
[15:50] <soren> cjwatson: He suggested I talk to you about it.
[15:50] <kirkland> cjwatson: ?  i thought that was specifically what you asked me to do
[15:50] <cjwatson> 15:43 <cjwatson> in STRUCTURE
[15:50] <cjwatson> kirkland: sorry, seed dependencies (or inheritance) vs. seed contents
[15:51] <cjwatson> you did the latter :)
[15:51] <cjwatson> soren: ok, I'll need to get off the phone before thinking about this, but will get back to you
[15:51] <kirkland> cjwatson: 1335 pushed!
[15:51] <soren> cjwatson: ETA?
[15:51] <cjwatson> soren: 40mins
[15:51] <soren> cjwatson: Alright.
[15:55] <cjwatson> kirkland: ok, that reverted 1334, but you still need to add that line to STRUCTURE
[15:55] <cjwatson> err, change
[15:55] <cjwatson> would it be easier if I just did it? :-) I'm not being very clear
[15:55] <kirkland> cjwatson: virt-host: standard
[15:55] <kirkland> cjwatson: that's in STRUCTURE
[15:55] <cjwatson> also server-ship: ... tomcat-server virt-host
[15:55] <kirkland> cjwatson: that needs to say "server-ship" too
[15:55] <cjwatson> no!
[15:56] <kirkland> cjwatson: ah, i see
[15:56] <cjwatson> other way round, server-ship needs to inherit from virt-host
[15:56] <kirkland> gotcha gotcha gotcha
[15:56] <cjwatson> phone+IRC = fail
[15:57] <kirkland> cjwatson: 1336 pushed
[15:57] <kirkland> cjwatson: hopefully that's it
[16:02] <soren> I realise this is a terrible time to bring this up, but I'm almost sure that we call it "Virtualisation" everywhere else (rather than "Virtualization").
[16:03] <cjwatson> s'why I got kirkland to call it virt- ;-)
[16:04] <kirkland> soren: yeah, we wrestled it back and forth
[16:04] <kirkland> and tried to avoid the issue
[16:04] <soren> Oh, lovely :)
[16:05] <cjwatson> kirkland: merged, thanks
[16:05] <kirkland> cjwatson: cool, thank you
[16:05] <kirkland> cjwatson: did you upgrade your kvm yet?
[16:05] <cjwatson> yeah, works great!
[16:05] <cjwatson> meant to say
[16:34] <cjwatson> soren: is it just a matter of including virtio-modules in the netboot initrd, then?
[16:35] <cjwatson> hmm, although that has the block device too
[16:36] <soren> cjwatson: virtio-net, virtio-pci, and virtio-ring, iirc.
[16:37] <cjwatson> soren: personally I think I'd prefer virtio_blk to move to block-modules, virtio_net to move to nic-modules, and both of those udebs to depend on virtio-modules
[16:37] <soren> They used to be in... err... nic-modules, I think, but BenC removed them to reduce the size of the udebs.
[16:37] <cjwatson> I wish BenC would ask me about this stuff
[16:37] <cjwatson> 'cos I'd have said "they're tiny, don't bother"
[16:37] <soren> cjwatson: Heh :)
[16:37] <cjwatson> every time he rearranges udebs, it means more complicated deltas for me to track in debian-installer's list files
[16:37] <soren> cjwatson: It seems virtio-net is already in nic-modules.
[16:38] <cjwatson> <cjwatson@riva ~>$ dpkg -c /mirror/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux/virtio-modules-2.6.27-4-generic-di_2.6.27-4.6_i386.udeb | grep virtio_net
[16:38] <cjwatson> -rw-r--r-- root/root     23836 2008-09-24 04:16 ./lib/modules/2.6.27-4-generic/kernel/drivers/net/virtio_net.ko
[16:38] <soren> s/$/ also./
[16:38] <cjwatson> huh, so it is. How did he manage to convince kernel-wedge to do that?
[16:38] <cjwatson> that's a bug.
[16:38] <soren> It's listed in both nic-modules and virtio-modules.
[16:38] <cjwatson> modules shouldn't be in more than one udeb
[16:38] <cjwatson> if necessary, one udeb should simply depend on another
[16:39] <soren> Certainly.
[16:39] <soren> it didn't used to be in nic-modules, that's for sure.
[16:39] <soren> It's a recent chance.
[16:39] <soren> change.
[16:39] <soren> For some reason, gitweb only shows me the last couple of days worth of history :/
[16:39] <soren> *days'
[16:40]  * soren has a bed spelling day
[16:40] <soren> Err... bad.
[16:40] <cjwatson> I'd suggest http://paste.ubuntu.com/50526/
[16:41]  * soren nods
[16:41] <cjwatson> could you take that up with Ben?
[16:41] <soren> cjwatson: Are the list of udebs to be included in the netboot image hardcoded somewhere or is it perhaps based on their priority or something?
[16:41] <cjwatson> they are hardcoded
[16:41] <cjwatson> (and dependency-expanded)
[16:42] <cjwatson> priority is used to decide what anna pulls in at runtime by default
[16:42] <cjwatson> we can't use priority for the initrds since different installation methods need different udebs
[16:42] <cjwatson> and, honestly, for the most part we'd rather control it in the installer than have to upload the kernel to change it :)
[16:43] <soren> Ok.
[16:43] <soren> i was just wondering since virtio-modules was priority: extra.
[16:44] <soren> while plip-modules is standard. I like to think that virtio is less esoteric than plip :)
[16:44] <cjwatson> we could change that (in fact, I will), but that wouldn't help with the initrds
[16:45] <soren> cjwatson: Alright. Thanks for clarifying!
[16:45] <cjwatson> it would make it possible to install on a virtio block device using a netboot installer
[16:45] <cjwatson> overrides changed
[16:46] <soren> I'm not sure I understand.. What exactly would make it possible to isntall on a virtio blcok device using a netboot installer?
[16:47] <cjwatson> having virtio-modules priority: standard
[16:47]  * soren ponders
[16:47] <cjwatson> well, assuming the partitioner can cope
[16:47] <soren> I thought you just said that priorities didn't affect anything?
[16:48] <cjwatson> no, I said they didn't affect initrd building
[16:48] <cjwatson> 16:42 <cjwatson> priority is used to decide what anna pulls in at runtime by default
[16:48] <soren> Well, given that nic-modules depends on it now, it must become priority: standard, though.
[16:48] <cjwatson> nic-modules doesn't depend on it *yet*
[16:48] <cjwatson> but yes, that is also true
[16:48] <soren> Point
[16:48] <soren> Oh, right, I missed the part about anna.
[16:48] <cjwatson> although actually I wouldn't count on udebs being closed under priority. but anyway.
[16:49] <soren> Oh. I sometimes forget how special udebs really are :)
[16:50] <cjwatson> debs aren't reliably closed under priority either. policy says they are, but nothing checks optional vs. extra
[16:50] <cjwatson> I don't think Debian's ever actually complied with that bit of policy in my memory
[16:50] <soren> Isn't there a priority_mismatches.txt or some such?
[16:50] <cjwatson> yes, that covers >= standard for debs
[16:50] <cjwatson> nothing checks udebs at all
[16:50] <cjwatson> (it isn't necessary, so not worth bothering)
[16:51] <soren> Oh, ok.
[16:51] <soren> Dear, oh dear, is that the time?
[16:51] <soren> I need to run. I've got driving school this evening :)
[16:51] <cjwatson> have fun
[16:52] <davmor2> cjwatson: Sorry to bother you but is there any movement on bug 271355?  I'm just having a chase around to see what's been fixed so I can close the reports :)
[16:52] <soren> cjwatson: Likewise. Thanks for your help.
[16:53] <cjwatson> davmor2: no, not yet
[16:53] <davmor2> okay thanks :)
[16:53] <cjwatson> I'll close it when I've fixed it :)
[16:53] <davmor2> Np's :)
[17:09] <davmor2> cjwatson: Can you just check I got the facts right on this bug and close it if it is please https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/238657
[17:34] <cjwatson> davmor2: commented
[17:34] <davmor2> cjwatson: Thanks