[00:34] <ogra> phew ... 30min before freeze i'm done
[00:36] <davidm> Woot
[00:57] <ogra> heh, and i'm on the frontpage of http://www.umpcportal.com/ :)
[00:58] <ogra> so we got proper touchscreen calibration ... not 100% where i wanted to be, but it will do for this release (i'll write a tool that supports more options for jaunty) and its fully hal capable
[01:30] <ian_brasil> ogra: nice
[01:34] <ian_brasil> shame they got your name wrong i think on report
[01:36] <persia> ogra: That's a great review.  Nice work on -mobile!
[01:36] <ogra> yeah, and i didnt even do much 
[01:37] <ogra> sadly his theme is totally broken, my image here looks way nicer :/
[01:37] <ogra> not sure why ... its the same image 
[01:37] <persia> No, you just made it work.  Having something that works well on that variety of hardware, and gets "...the best [Linux build] I've seen on a UMPC..."
[01:38] <ogra> yeah, i was a bit shocked by his next sentence ... "unlike the ubuntu mobile i tried before"
[01:38] <ian_brasil> he did not review the last release as he thought it was just a developers release apparently
[01:39] <ogra> ah
[01:39] <persia> I suspect it's a combination of hardware issues (the Ubuntu MID release really only works on a couple specific pieces of hardware), and had some of the issues we've been chasing for this release.
[01:39] <ogra> i know him quite well, he's an ex colleague :) i guess i need to drive to cologne one day and take him out for a beer to teach him abotu linux 
[01:41] <persia> Unfortunate that he claims it's designed for "MIDs", as it's really for the larger segment, but that ought go away over time.
[01:41] <ogra> yeah
[01:42] <ian_brasil> ogra: it seems to me you have a fan without even needing to shell out for the beer..so well done ;)
[01:42] <ogra> :D
[01:42] <ogra> i hope teh publicity gets me these lshal outputs i need so urgently ... :)
[01:43] <ogra> i dont really want to release with a touchscreen driver that only supports two devices 
[01:43] <persia> I'm also reminded, where are we on the psb driver?  Does 2D work?
[01:44] <ogra> bah, just got a mail ... 
[01:44]  * persia tries ogra's image on the SR to see how the touchscreen works
[01:44] <ogra> he complains about the install
[01:44] <persia> Does the installer not work?
[01:45] <ogra> it does, but seems grub did break ... "file not found" 
[01:45] <ogra> i'll try an install myself tomorrow 
[01:45] <ogra> way to tired for today ... eh touchscreen calibration was a hard bone to chew ... 
[01:45] <persia> This is for i386!  I thought that problem was lpia-specific
[01:46]  * persia digs into the ubuntu-mobile image to find out why
[01:46]  * persia is excited that the lack of the lpia kernel may not be the reason grub doesn't install
[02:00] <ogra> heh, he wants me for a live interview and question/answer session on friday :)
[02:11] <ian_brasil> that sounds like fun..post the time of of it to the list
[02:11] <ogra> i will :)
[02:12] <ogra> but i'm to tired to negotiate that now ... will do tomorrow
[02:14]  * ogra just finishes his goodnight beer ...
[08:10] <lool> Morning
[10:01] <lool> StevenK: FYI there's a 48x48 icon in upstream's icons; and it's in .xcf so you could create a png if xpms lack colors
[10:58] <josephus> hey, is there any official/non-official support for Amtek U560? 
[11:01] <persia> josephus: What proc?  How much ram?  what screen size?  What resolution?
[11:08] <josephus> A110, 1024x600, etc.. What I'm concerned about is the wifi/bt support as I have no idea what chipset it has
[11:14] <josephus> specs: http://www.umpcportal.com/products/product.php?id=116
[11:18] <persia> Should work fine.  It looks a lot like my kohjinsha, except smaller.
[11:19] <persia> Do you have a unit, or would you be getting it in hopes that it worked?
[11:22] <persia> josephus: http://www.mahalo.com/Amtek_U560 claims it can be purchased pre-installed with Ubuntu.  I can't find any confirmation at the manufacturer's website, but that's typically a strong argument for HW support :)
[11:27] <persia> ogra: About the -mobile image: it doesn't boot in KVM.  Any ideas?
[11:27] <ogra> not really
[11:28] <persia> OK.  I just get a "Cannot Boot" message.  Works beautifully on real HW.  I'm excited about trying your new calibration tool, to see if I can get the touchscreen to reach the last 5% of the screen.
[11:29] <josephus> Yeah I've found that page too. Actually I plan to get any UMPC with QWERTY that has Linux support, unfortunately Amtek is the only one I can get in a short time.
[11:30] <persia> josephus: I can say with some certainty that the Kojinsha SR series, the Samsung Q1 series, the Aigo MID, and the Sharp D4 are the most likely to be supported for -mid for intrepid (note that neither the Q1 nor the SR are really MIDs).
[11:31] <persia> josephus: It's safest if you get one of those, because there's someone in this channel that has one, and with whom you can discuss any adjustments.  On the other hand, if you don't mind getting your hands dirty a bit, just about anything with Linux support ought to work, and can certainly be made to work for the next release (assuming it meets minimum specs, etc.)
[11:36] <ogra> persia, i have to find a working basic config, currentl the devices are totally unconfigured until you run the tool first 
[11:36] <josephus> persia: I will have to get my hands dirty either way but I would be stuck if there were no support for the wifi. 
[11:37] <ogra> but at least the tool runs in X and has a .desktop entry in the control center
[11:37] <persia> ogra: Right.  I want to run the tool, and get it configured, and pass you the data :)
[11:37] <persia> Oh it does?
[11:37]  * persia looks
[11:37] <ogra> oh, lshal should suffice 
[11:37] <ogra> (at least if you know it works with evtouch normally)
[11:37] <persia> ogra: Oh.  That's easy.  I thought you also needed some other information from a working calibrated xorg.conf
[11:38] <ogra> not anymore, thats up to you now ... i gave you a clibration tool :P
[11:38] <persia> OK.  I'm looking for it :)
[11:39] <persia> What is it called?
[11:39]  * persia updates in case it requires something newer
[11:39] <ogra> i did hide it under "Touchscreen Calibration" :)
[11:40] <ogra> should be in system->Settings
[11:40] <ogra> or however thats called in english
[11:40] <ogra> in the menu where you find synaptics and friends
[11:43] <persia> I have System/Preferences and System/Administration.  Neither has Touchscreen Calibration.  Which package do I need to have installed?
[11:44] <ogra> xserver-xorg-input-evtouch
[11:45] <persia> I have 0.8.7-3ubuntu6 installed.
[11:45]  * persia upgrades
[11:46] <ogra> yeah, you nee 8
[11:46] <ogra> *need
[11:46] <ogra> 7 makes it work from commandline, 8 gives you the X goodness
[11:46] <persia> Err.  I did that wrong.  upgrading the kernel and firefox in a live session is *not* recommended.
[11:47] <ogra> heh
[11:47] <ogra> you should be able to re-login
[11:47] <ogra> at least for FF
[11:48] <persia> I won't even bother.  I'm just going to run the calibration tool.  I finished testing the stuff I booted this for, and need to boot back into -desktop to test a couple other things and recover some data before I do a reinstall.
[11:48] <ogra> thats mobile or mid ? 
[11:48] <persia> -mobile
[11:48] <ogra> do you have a proper dark theme ? 
[11:49] <persia> Everything looks good except the default background for the browser, terminal, text-editor, etc.
[11:49]  * ogra is curious why it didnt work in the video
[11:49] <persia> For the terminal, I set to 100% transparency and white text, which is very nice with which to work.
[11:49] <ogra> whats wrong with the default background ? wasnt it white ? 
[11:49] <ogra> (i didnt modify it)
[11:50] <persia> Right.  Can't upgrade: not enough space.  I'll do the calibration in -desktop.
[11:50] <persia> Yes, it was white, which didn't look good with the dark theme and pretty left and top bars.
[11:50] <ogra> yeah, or reboot and only upgrade the evtouch package
[11:50] <ogra> ok
[11:50] <ogra> yeah, i can change the terminal defaults ... and set a browser homepage
[11:50] <persia> Well, since I have to reboot into desktop anyway for other reasons, I'll do it that way.
[11:51] <ogra> the calibration requires a reboot btw
[11:51] <persia> It looks *great* though.  I'll definitely be running -mobile on the Kohjinsha at UDS.
[11:51] <ogra> i didnt manage to make it work without restarting hal
[11:51] <persia> All the more reason to do it in -desktop: that's actually resident on the hard drive.
[12:00] <ogra> meh, it has a typo
[12:00] <ogra> (says restart your session instead of system)
[12:00] <ogra> oh !!!
[12:00]  * ogra has an idea
[12:02] <ogra> oh, and i called it "Calibrate Touchacreen" not "Touchscreen Calibration" :)
[12:04] <ogra> yipppie ... i have the proper solution 
[12:04] <persia> Earlier in the alphabet is *always* better.
[12:04] <ogra> no need for a reboot 
[12:04] <persia> Hrm?
[12:04]  * ogra slaps forehead why he didnt get that idea yesterday already
[12:05] <ogra> well, i wanted to run the config commit from a Xsession.d script ... didnt manage to make that work, so you needed to restart the system ... instead of simply doing a relogin
[12:05] <ogra> and i had to put the commit stuff into an initscript 
[12:06] <ogra> simply running the initscript at the end of calibration sets the new values :P
[12:06] <ogra> and you just need to relogin instead of rebooting
[12:07] <persia> ogra: Nothing turns red for me.
[12:07] <ogra> takes a moment
[12:07] <ogra> (you did hit enter, right ? )
[12:08]  * persia tries again.
[12:08] <ogra> i just tried it the first time on the Q!
[12:08] <ogra> Q1
[12:08] <ogra> worked fine 
[12:08] <persia> OK.  First step, touch the pen to the screen, and move around all the edges.
[12:08] <persia> Second step, press Enter
[12:08] <ogra> right
[12:08] <persia> Third step, wait.
[12:08] <ogra> third, wait until top left cross turns red
[12:09] <ogra> you sure your enter key works ? 
[12:10] <persia> Yes.  If I now tap the screen 9 times, the tool exits.  Just nothing ever turns red.
[12:10] <ogra> i'll rework the cursors and font for that screen in jaunty ... it really needs a better visual handling ...
[12:11] <persia> it's left-to-right, top-to-bottom?
[12:11] <ogra> right
[12:11] <ogra> starts top left, goes to top right ... then middle row 
[12:11] <ogra> same there 
[12:11]  * persia ignores the lack of visual response, and calibrates the touchscreen.
[12:11] <ogra> then bottom row
[12:12] <ogra> you had the values showing up on the screen while moving to the edges ? 
[12:13] <persia> No.  The values on the screen never changed whilst I was moving to the edges.
[12:14] <ogra> so in case you are done, just run sudo /etc/init.d/xserver-xorg-input-evtouch start from a terminal and relogin
[12:14] <ogra> oh
[12:14] <persia> It also failed to calibrate my touchscreen.
[12:14] <ogra> are you sure that touchscreen is evtouch ? 
[12:14] <persia> Does logging out and in again not reload?  Do I need to also restart the init script?
[12:14] <ogra> well, currently you actually need to reboot 
[12:15] <ogra> but wait
[12:15] <ogra> you dont have a .fdi file :P
[12:15] <ogra> so the driver isnt loaded at all
[12:16] <persia> RIght.  What do I need to do to get an .fdi file?
[12:16] <ogra> easiest is to copy the 10-eGalax.fdi in /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osverndor 
[12:16] <persia> copy it to?
[12:16] <ogra> look at the two "<match>" lines
[12:16] <ogra> to something... pick a significant name for your touchscreen device 
[12:17] <persia> like "PenMount USB" ?
[12:17] <ogra> change the match lines to match your touchscreen with lshal values (easiest is to install gnome-devcie-manager)
[12:17] <ogra> yeah, something like that
[12:18] <ogra> hal needs one or two values to match against to know it should not load evdev but evtouch for this device ... else its silly and says its a mouse or kbd and uses evdev
[12:18] <persia> Yeah.  That's what is happening now.
[12:19] <ogra> should also show up like that in Xorg.0.log
[12:19] <persia> So you recommend matching against info.product and info.capabiliites?
[12:20] <ogra> yeah, or whatever unique parameters can identify your device 
[12:20] <ogra> you will need to reboot then 
[12:20] <ogra> hal wont just pick it up
[12:21] <ogra> (unless you can unplug it, which i doubt)
[12:21] <persia> rebooting is no issue.  Let's see what happens.
[12:22] <persia> I suspect the reason I appeared to be able to calibrate was that I was using the left-click-to-advance function.
[12:24] <ogra> yeah
[12:29] <ogra> if you have a working .fdi, paste it for me, i have a package update pending
[12:35] <StevenK> ogra: I note the touchscreen doesn't work for my Q1
[12:35] <ogra> StevenK, do you have the latest evtouch update ? 
[12:35] <ogra> it doesnt pre-calibrte anymore, it will only work after a first calibration run
[12:36] <StevenK> ogra: I have 0.8.7-3ubuntu8 xserver-xorg-input-evtouch
[12:36] <StevenK> ogra: Ah. How do I calibrate it?
[12:36] <ogra> good, look for "claibrate touchscreen"
[12:36] <ogra> it has a menu entry
[12:37] <ogra> in System->Administartion
[12:37] <StevenK> Ah. Currently we don't parse system
[12:37] <ogra> aha
[12:37] <ogra> well, run sudo calibrate_touchscreen then from a terminal
[12:39] <ogra> i would have put it in Preferences, but that didnt seem appropriate for a sudo'ed tool
[12:42] <persia> StevenK: Do you want an applications-merged/ entry to grab Settings and call it "Preferences"?
[12:43] <StevenK> persia: Nope, since the top level of the System menu is Preferences and it grabs the stuff
[12:43]  * ogra lols about the "rename it" mail thread in -mobile
[12:43] <ogra> geez
[12:43] <persia> StevenK: OK.  You've a working local applications-merged/ entry?
[12:44] <StevenK> I had.
[12:44] <persia> Well then, I won't create one :)
[12:44] <StevenK> I've since hacked code to also parse settings.menu
[12:44] <StevenK> Unless you think that will pull in too much
[12:45] <StevenK> Hm. It really does.
[12:48] <persia> Hrm?  kourou reads settings.menu directly?  I like merging better, unless we want to do something funny.
[12:52] <persia> ogra: Adding the .fdi file made things turn red, but it's not a very visible red.  Could it change value more, as well as hue?
[12:52] <ogra> i'll try that, so paste me the .fdi :)
[12:52] <StevenK> persia: It was going to, and now it isn't.
[12:52] <persia> :)
[12:53] <persia> ogra: I'm still rebooting to make sure the calibration worked.  I'll paste you the .fdi soonish now...
[12:53] <ogra> it worked :)
[12:53] <persia> (and then I have a good excuse to unbox the new device and calibrate that too)
[12:53] <ogra> and get me another .fdi :)
[12:54] <ogra> hmm, i should merge all of them into a evtouch.fdi
[12:55] <persia> Probably.  Ends up with more matches, but avoids namespace issues.
[12:55] <persia> Hrm.  Now it won't boot :/
[12:55] <ogra> :(
[12:57] <davidm> Almost time for the meeting
[13:01] <davidm> Starting the meeting
[13:02] <persia> ogra: Not calibrated :(
[13:03] <davidm> lool, you about in the meeting?
[13:03] <lool> I am
[13:03] <ogra> persia, does /etc/evtouch/config contain values ? 
[13:04] <ogra> should have 22 lines
[13:05] <ogra> and does hal see it as evtouch device now ? 
[13:05] <ogra> lsha|less 
[13:05] <ogra> and then search for evtouch
[13:05] <ogra> *lshal indeed
[13:09] <persia> lots of stuff there.
[13:09] <ogra> in lshal ? 
[13:09] <ogra> do you see things like maxx and maxy ? 
[13:10] <persia> I see all of that in /etc/evtouch/config, but it's dark, I'm distracted, and there are too many keyboards, so I haven't gotten the lshal stuff yet :)
[13:11] <ogra> well, you should see all the values in lshal as well and you should see evtouch somewhere in there as well 
[13:12] <ogra> your .fdi probably defines the wrong device ... usually a touchscreen has two or three of them 
[13:16] <persia> ogra: gnome-device-manager shows it to be evtouch, and has all the hint values: it's just not calibrated correctly.
[13:16] <ogra> hum
[13:17] <ogra> what mainly counts is the maxx, maxy, minx and miny
[13:17] <persia> ogra: So, in about 43 minutes, I'll ask you to lead me *very* slowly through the steps, checking each step, and we can sort it.
[13:17] <ogra> the min values usually are between 100 and 300
[13:18] <ogra> max should be between 6000 and 8000 somewhere
[13:19] <persia> I'm getting stuff like -1019 through to about -5
[13:19] <ogra> for the min/max values ? 
[13:19] <ogra> thats definately wrong
[13:20] <ogra> the Xn/Yn values are fine to be negative, but min/max should be positive
[13:20] <ogra>  Xn/Yn are the fine tuning values for the crosshairs ... min/max are the edges
[13:22] <persia> Oh. I get 0 and 20000 then.
[13:40] <josephus> should intrepid images boot in vmware?
[13:42] <persia> josephus: I don't know that anyone has tried.  -mid is known to boot in virtualbox and KVM.  -mobile didn't boot for me on kvm, but I've heard no confirmation, or information about testing in other environments.
[13:59] <persia> Burgundavia: You had a question about form factors?
[14:00] <Burgundavia> yah, still wrapping my head around the dividing line between mid and netbook, from the package selection sense
[14:01] <ogra> mid is for 4-7" devices
[14:01] <persia> Burgundavia: OK.  Firstly, let's ignore the word "netbook".
[14:01] <ogra> netbook is for netbooks 
[14:01] <persia> So, there's two flavours that we tend to work on here: ubuntu-mid and ubuntu-mobile.
[14:01] <ogra> Burgundavia, you mix up -mobile with -mid :)
[14:01] <lool> No ubuntu-netbook?  :)
[14:01] <Burgundavia> yes, I do
[14:02] <persia> ubuntu-mid is a hildon-based environment: loosely related to Maemo.
[14:02] <persia> lool: Nope.  There is no ubuntu-netbook.
[14:02] <Burgundavia> right, got that, mobile is not-netbook?
[14:02] <lool> persia: Is it maemo or is it moblin?
[14:02] <persia> ubuntu-mobile is a gnome-based environment designed for small screens.
[14:02] <lool> Ah sorry, no fair making fun of the mess I'm in as well   :-)
[14:02] <Burgundavia> but ubuntu-mobile lacks nice things like the ume-launcher
[14:02] <ogra> Burgundavia, -mobile is for touchscreens, the netbook remix is a commercial product for netbooks ... largely without touchscreens using 4 specailly written apps 
[14:02] <persia> lool: Yes.
[14:02]  * lool has some odd type of humor today it seems
[14:03] <persia> Burgundavia: ume-launcher isn't in Ubuntu :)
[14:03] <Burgundavia> netbook-launcher is
[14:03] <lool> We should start a nettop image for crazyness
[14:03] <Burgundavia> but, yes I see your point
[14:03] <ogra> Burgundavia, netbook-launcher (how its called in intrepid) is only usable on a vers specual setup, i.e. all size values are hardcoded 
[14:04] <persia> Burgundavia: So, clearly, anyone can use any software on any device, but the idea of -mobile is to target things with touchscreens and limited screen real-estate, but still large enough to fit in a bag.
[14:04] <Burgundavia> seems to work just fine scaling up on my 1280x768 laptop
[14:04] <ogra> you need to compile a special version with different values for different screens, thats currently not doable with our manpower
[14:04] <persia> The idea of -mid is to have something significantly more pocketable.
[14:04] <Burgundavia> n810-sized (but atom based)?
[14:04] <ogra> Burgundavia, it is hardcoded to 24px panels and to 5px off the edge of the screen ... you cant use a sidepanel for xample
[14:04] <ogra> its not built for touchscreens
[14:04] <Burgundavia> right, I saw that
[14:05] <Burgundavia> ouch
[14:05] <ogra> beyond that it doesnt work in intrepuid
[14:05] <ogra> its also closely bound to clutter 0.6 
[14:05] <ogra> with clutter 0.8 which is the current version fonts are not displayed etc
[14:05] <ogra> clutter doesnt work with compiz either 
[14:06] <ogra> the first few unreleased ubuntu-mobile builds used netbook-launcher 
[14:06] <persia> Burgundavia: Precisely.
[14:06] <Burgundavia> yay for my bling doesn't work with your bling
[14:06] <ogra> after using it for two weeks i really didnt find it suitable for a release
[14:06] <ogra> it will rock in jaunty but for intrepid it simply isnt ready 
[14:07] <ogra> needs to much of a rewrite which wont happen before beta i think
[14:08] <Burgundavia> you need a followup faq post, clearly
[14:08] <persia> Burgundavia: First we need a common set of questions.
[14:08] <persia> Currently, most questions are being asked for the first time.
[14:09] <persia> The only one that seems common is confusion about netbook, but that's been pervasive since the netbook remix was announced.
[14:09] <ogra> Burgundavia, i took the blame to take maintenance for the netbook apps, they surely fall into the mobile area and i know there are plans to make netbook-launcher work on touchscreens, but as long as its not there i cant do much about it 
[14:09] <Burgundavia> well, the netbook and mid stuff don't fit into neat existing categories like laptop, desktop and phone
[14:09] <ogra> so -mobile is what it is and wont change much
[14:10] <persia> Burgundavia: Well, someone didn't want us to call a MID a PDA.  I don't personally understand why, but...
[14:10] <ogra> and the community feedback on http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/09/ubuntu-mobile-edition-news-and-first-boot-video/ and the ubuntu-mobile and gnome-mobile lists somewhat prove i'm doing it right ;)
[14:10] <Burgundavia> yes, some marketing wonks in Intel
[14:10] <Burgundavia> because PDA == Palm == 90s == boring
[14:10] <ogra> Burgundavia, btw, what was your KDE complaint about yesterday ? 
[14:10] <persia> -mobile is new, but the desktop environment doesn't work so well on a 7" screen (it's sitting next to me now: I *know* it's not as pretty as -mobile), but -mobile is too small for a 14" screen.
[14:11] <persia> Burgundavia: I guess.  My PDAs haven't been boring for years, but they've all been what are now called MIDs.
[14:11] <Burgundavia> ogra: evtouch and zenity
[14:11] <ogra> it will work, just not display the help 
[14:12] <ogra> i'm fine f soemone sends me a kdialog patch
[14:12] <ogra> it would also need a special .desktop file using kdesu
[14:13] <ogra> but after all you can call sudo calibrate_touchscreen in any environment 
[14:14] <ogra> i'll write a wikipage for it once i have enough .fdi files that it actually supports more than 2 device categories ... 
[14:15] <ogra> currently i can only suport the two touchscreen categories i can test on and despite several calls on planet and mailing lists i didnt recieve more lshal output from other people yet
[14:17] <persia> ogra: So, lead me through a process that gets me a working calibration.
[14:17] <persia> (and I'll give you a .fdi file)
[14:18] <ogra> well, i wonder why you get the 20000 there
[14:18] <ogra> might corellare with the DPI 
[14:18] <ogra> *corelate
[14:25] <persia> ogra: This is only ~170 DPI.  Should be about the same as the Q1U
[14:26] <ogra> well, if you run the calibration now, do you see the numbers moving ?
[14:26] <persia> No.
[14:26] <ogra> else i suspect either its not an evtouch device or the fdi points to the wrong device 
[14:26]  * persia tries some other things
[14:27] <persia> Do I need to delete some file?  It won't run now.
[14:30] <ogra> not at all ? 
[14:30] <ogra> it should run in any case (even if you dont have a touchscreen)
[14:31] <persia> Well, it shows the splash, and then tells me the calibration is complete.  No calibration screen.
[14:31] <ogra> hal-find-by-property --key input.x11_driver --string evtouch
[14:31] <ogra> does that return a UDI ?
[14:31] <ogra> should have something like logicaldev_input at the end
[14:35] <persia> That didn't return anything.  I suppose that means my .fdi file is wrong.  I wonder why it said evtouch in gnome-device-manager
[14:39] <ogra> what device did it apply to ß 
[14:39] <ogra> ?
[14:39] <persia> ogra: Hrm?  The touchscreen, according to g-d-m.
[14:39] <ogra> usually you have a HID->USB Interface->Touchpad/screen chain
[14:39] <ogra> it has to apply to the lowest in the chain
[14:41] <persia> Computer -> USB UHCI Controller -> Hub -> USB Device -> Mouse HID Device Interface (Boot) Interface -> Pointing Device
[14:42] <ogra> no touchpad there ?
[14:43] <persia> touchpad is Computer -> Platform Device -> i8042 AUX2 port -> Touch Pad
[14:43] <ogra> thats likely the synaptics touchpad
[14:43] <ogra> there should be a second one for the touchscreen
[14:43] <ogra> attached to usb
[14:44] <persia> Nope.  The only listed touchpad is the actual touchpad.  The touchscreen is a "Pointing Device".
[14:44] <ogra> else you even miss kernel support for it i think
[14:44]  * persia fiddles with the .fdi file, and tries to fix that first
[14:44] <ogra> yeah, but thats only half of the device
[14:44] <persia> Well, it works, it's just not calibrated.
[14:44] <ogra> it works with evtouch loaded ? 
[14:45] <ogra> did it work before ? without loading it ? 
[14:46] <ogra> [   15.737517] input: IDEACO^D  IDC 6680 as /class/input/input2
[14:46] <ogra> [   15.741238] input,hiddev96,hidraw0: USB HID v1.10 Mouse [IDEACO^D  IDC 6680] on usb-0000:00:1d.2-1
[14:46] <ogra> [   15.785496] input: IDEACO^D  IDC 6680 as /class/input/input3
[14:46] <ogra> [   15.788536] input,hidraw1: USB HID v1.10 Mouse [IDEACO^D  IDC 6680] on usb-0000:00:1d.2-1
[14:46] <ogra> [   15.788555] usbcore: registered new interface driver usbhid
[14:46] <persia> Yeah.  It works either way, it just isn't calibrated.  Anyway, it's the same screen as used in the Flybook: I think I'll go hunt to see how they do it.
[14:46] <ogra> thats my dmesg output for my touchscreen
[14:46] <ogra> do you see yours in dmesg ? 
[14:46] <ogra>  /class/input/input2 is the actual touchscreen
[14:47] <ogra> input3 is a strange mouse emulation device
[14:47] <persia> No, I only have one device showing.
[14:47] <ogra> i know evtouch work for lifebook ... not sure about flybook
[14:48] <ogra> whats the actual device name/manufacturer ? 
[14:48] <ogra> i have a list here for evtouch
[14:49] <ogra> AHA !
[14:49] <ogra> flybook is plpevtch
[14:49] <persia> DIALOGUE
[14:50] <ogra> and plpevtch isnt packaged :(
[14:50] <ogra> http://download.plop.at/files/plpevtch/xf86-input-plpevtch-0.0.3.tar.gz
[14:51] <ogra> i wonder if thats mergeable into evtouch
[14:51] <persia> My event devices are "Macintosh mouse button emulation", "AT Translated Set 2 keyboard", "DIALOGUE INC PenMount USB", "Power Button (FF)", "Lid Switch", "Power Button (CM)", "Video Bus", "F013FF-68 PC-CAM", "SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad", and "PS/2 Generic Mouse".
[14:52] <ogra> DIALOGUE INC PenMount USB sounds about right 
[14:52] <persia> I think the extra function keys come through the camera (as it supports EV_KEY)
[14:52] <snadge> i was just about to buy a dell mini inspiron 9 .. but then discovered they do not ship it with ubuntu in australia
[14:53] <persia> Yes, that's the one I can't calibrate.  Intrepid is *much* better than hardy for this device, but it's still off by a bit.
[14:53] <snadge> i want to buy something cute and small that has ubuntu on it.. are there other options available or coming soon?
[14:53] <ogra> apt-get install xserver-xorg-input-penmount
[14:54] <ogra> that should make use of it
[14:54] <ogra> it emulates wacom
[14:55] <ogra> so you need to use wacom calibration tools
[14:55] <ogra> sigh ... and it even emulates it throuh the serial port
[14:55] <persia> Ahh.  That explains it.  I've been fiddling on and off with evtouch since May, and all along it's been the wrong driver :)
[14:56] <ogra> http://paste.ubuntu.com/50489/
[14:56] <persia> ogra: Thanks.  Despite my shame, it will be nice to have this working :)
[14:56] <ogra> rework that to a .fdi file
[14:56] <ogra> (probably adjust min/max values)
[14:57] <persia> Are those sensible defaults with which to start?
[14:57] <ogra> no idea
[14:57] <ogra> bug 261873 has example .fdi files
[14:57] <persia> Oh, right.  I have some installed :)
[14:58] <ogra> just make all the options string and make the option names lowercase
[15:00] <ogra> if you get me your lshal i can create an fdi file to start from ... i bet you need to adjust the values though
[15:02] <persia> I'll fiddle with it a bit tonight or tomorrow.  If I get lost, I'll give you lshal, but it's worth learning.
[15:02] <ogra> its worth having the .fdi in the package i guess
[15:02] <ogra> even if people have to modify it manually its helpful 
[15:03] <ogra> we need s generalized calibration tool in jaunty
[15:03] <StevenK> persia: linux-lpia-meta binary NEWed
[15:03] <ogra> i'll propose a spec for that 
[15:03] <persia> \0/
[15:03] <ogra> StevenK, did you get your calibration working btw ?
[15:03]  * persia will be very excited to see if the "No kernel found" error goes away as expected.
[15:04] <StevenK> ogra: No
[15:04] <ogra> StevenK, no in you didnt try ? or no in something was broken 
[15:04] <StevenK> ogra: The latter
[15:04] <ogra> if so, what  (i want to have that done before beta)
[15:05] <StevenK> ogra: No instructions, so I had no clue what to do
[15:05] <ogra> apt-get install zenity :)
[15:05] <StevenK> It also requires zenity?
[15:05] <ogra> it doesnt ... but it shows instructions if zenity is there 
[15:06] <ogra> less /usr/bin/calibrate_touchscreen otherwise :)
[15:06] <ogra> it has the instructions inline for now
[15:06] <persia> ogra: It should Recommends zenity
[15:06] <ogra> for jaunty i want a full pygtk tool that can also modify the tap values etc
[15:07] <ogra> persia, that would pull in zenity into -mid i wasnt sure thats desired
[15:07] <persia> ogra: Hrm.  Good point.
[15:07] <ogra> not sure how much gnome that pulls in
[15:07] <StevenK> I'll check that tomorrow
[15:08] <ogra> basically ... move your pen to all edges, hit enter, wait until top left cross turns red, tap each red cross once
[15:08] <StevenK> So tap all four corners?
[15:08] <ogra> all 9 crosses
[15:09] <ogra> did you get the claibration screen ? 
[15:09] <StevenK> I wasn't getting any indications I should be using my finger, or the mouse, or what
[15:09] <ogra> (white screen with a bunch of crosses)
[15:09] <StevenK> Yes, I got that screen
[15:09] <ogra> good
[15:09] <ogra> so it basically works at least
[15:09] <ogra> best is to use a pen
[15:11] <ogra> if you did like i sadi above, run sudo invoke-rc.d xserver-xorg-input-evtouch start and restart your X session ... it should eb calibrated then
[15:11] <ogra> *be
[15:12]  * ogra wonders if he should fall bac to xdialog 
[15:12] <ogra> hmm, thats not installed by default either anywhere
[15:13] <ogra> but would probbly be the better choice for hildon
[15:14]  * ogra checks whats required for that
[15:14] <ogra> hmm, no deps at all apart from Xlibs :)
[15:21] <persia> Falling back to that makes sense then.  We can hint the alternate in the seeds.
[15:21] <ogra> its not installed though
[15:23] <persia> ogra: Right.  The calibration tool Recommends zenity | xdialog.  -mid seeds xdialog, and doesn't get zenity.  All is good.
[15:23] <ogra> Recommends zenity | xdialog | kdialog i guess :)
[15:24] <StevenK> I'll check if zenity horrible tomorrow
[15:24] <persia> I'd do zenity | kdialog | xdialog, but that's just me.
[15:33] <lool> Arf, /me discoveres that the CB is VT capable
[15:33] <persia> heh
[15:34] <lool> So the Q1 is an Intel A100 and *isn't* Atom
[15:35] <lool> Well 110
[15:38] <lool> Ohh STMicro was using PowerVR, it all makes sense now
[15:38] <lool> They were at OSIM
[15:38]  * lool connects the dots
[15:39] <persia> Q1 is still lpia, just not atom.  You don't need to use the lpiacompat kernel.
[15:39] <lool> persia: You have a Kohjinsha right?
[15:40] <lool> Geez the list of PowerVR SGX usage is impressive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR#Series_5_.28SGX.29
[15:41] <lool> Funny, Moorestown and Nokia tablets are already in the list
[15:41] <persia> lool: I have a Kojinsha, but the SR, not the SC3 everyone is talking about.
[15:42] <lool> "Apple unidentified -- SGX + VXD380" erf
[15:42] <lool> persia: What are the graphics?
[15:43] <persia> Intel 94x
[17:34] <lool> blah
[17:34] <lool> Paramétrage de bluez-utils (3.36-1ubuntu2) ...
[17:34] <lool> Creating device nodes ...
[17:34] <lool> udev active, devices will be created in /dev/.static/dev/
[17:34] <lool> rm: ne peut enlever `rfcomm0-': Système de fichiers accessible en lecture seulement
[17:34] <lool> mknod: `rfcomm0-': Système de fichiers accessible en lecture seulement
[17:34] <lool> (long list of failures)
[19:08] <BenBradley> Hello, I've got a simple (I hope) question: How (can) I use a WinXP box to set up a USB flash drive to install MID on my EeePC?
[19:16] <ogra> try to google about rawrite (not sure it works with usb drives though)
[19:16] <ogra> or use a ubuntu livecd and use dd :)
[19:19] <BenBradley> I've had some trouble with dd'ing an .img to USB, last time I tried my USB drive just blinked at me for a couple hours and ended up corrupted
[19:20] <ogra> did you give a blocksize (bs=) to the dd command ?
[19:21] <ogra> dd if=/your/img/file of=/dev/sdX bs=1024 ... something like that 
[19:34] <crevette> helloo
[19:47] <lool> Hey I get a huge pile of changes to the mid seed when updatingit
[19:48] <lool> ogra: Could it be your task changes?!
[19:49] <lool> ogra: I suspect it's the task-seeds: desktop-common
[19:49] <lool> ogra: It really pulls a big pile, screen, unzip, wodim, hplip, pcmciautils....
[19:50] <lool> ogra: Could you confirm this is what you want and upload mobile-meta?  I personally think we want something relatively small and without things like syslog, or standard unix tools in it, just the mobile and desktop internet apps
[20:42] <BenBradley> Ogra - Thanks for the tip, though in the meantime I found that UNetBootin will write IMG files to USB if you specify "Floppy" instead of "ISO"
[20:45] <crevette> hello
[20:46] <crevette> mobile devs, do you need coherence plugin for MID ?
[20:49] <crevette> lool: If I open a bug on luanchpad could it be possible to have latest python-coherence ?
[21:21] <lool> crevette: Hmm
[21:21] <lool> crevette: I don't really need a bug for it to be honest :)
[21:22] <lool> crevette: You mean in intrepid?
[21:22] <crevette> yep
[21:22] <lool> crevette: It depends on the size of the changes
[21:22] <crevette> I seen you're one of the maintainer on debian 
[21:22] <lool> crevette: What do you care for in the new release(s)?
[21:22] <crevette> yeah
[21:22] <crevette> I can make the coherence plugin works for rhythmbox
[21:23] <crevette> I wonder if it not cuased by this old version we hve
[21:23] <crevette> Let me investigate
[21:24] <crevette> can't
[21:24] <crevette> it doesn't work totem neither
[21:27] <lool> crevette: Well did you check whether the new upstream fixes it or is it just a wild guess?
[21:28] <crevette> it was a wild guess, but I'm installing the debian version
[21:28] <crevette> debian
[21:28] <crevette> I'm going to test
[21:28] <crevette> I hope it could work
[21:29] <lool> Ok; I can consider spending time to merge it if it fixes coherence support for the apps you mentionned, but if it's just for the sake of it, then it can wait til jaunty
[21:30] <crevette> yep I totally understand
[21:49] <ogra> lool, my task changes will do exactly the opposite ...
[21:49] <ogra> once they are applied
[21:50] <lool> ogra: Well could you run ./update in mobile-meta and upload it then?
[21:50] <lool> Perhaps I did things wrong
[21:50] <ogra> i did run ./update, yes
[21:50] <lool> on intrepid?
[21:50] <ogra> but that was on monday last time
[21:50] <ogra> yes
[21:51] <ogra> but the soyuz fix isnt in yet
[21:51] <lool> Could you check again?   :-/
[21:51] <ogra> cilon made a bunch of seed changes inbetween
[21:51] <ogra> to prepare the task thing
[21:51] <ogra> *colin
[21:52] <ogra> ah, bug 274199 is fix released since 1h
[21:52] <ogra> but that shouldnt change anything in the update script behavior, it really only makes sure there is a task header
[21:53] <lool> ogra: I'd like to understand why i get a huge pile of new packages then?
[21:53] <ogra> just checking
[21:54] <ogra> powernowd does anything on lpia ? 
[21:54]  * ogra wasnt aware there are p4-clockmod modules in lpia
[21:55] <lool> ogra: Yeah, it loads the cpu frequency modules
[21:56] <lool> ogra: The acpi-cpufreq one to be exact
[21:56] <ogra> yes, but only the p4 ones
[21:56] <ogra> oh, then it changed since i last touched it 
[21:56] <lool> I just pushed that fix to hardy
[21:57]  * ogra runs update 
[21:58] <ogra> might be that mid shouldnt use tasks, but as soon as you pull something with recommends in it will install all recommends automatically
[21:58] <ogra> thats what the task prevents as cjwatson explained to me
[21:59] <ogra> this update should actually drop stuff ... unless the cronjob hasnt run yet
[21:59] <crevette> lool: latest coherence seems to working better 
[21:59] <crevette> the rb just need to be upated
[21:59] <crevette> updated
[21:59] <lool> the rb?
[21:59] <crevette> rhythmbox
[22:00] <crevette> sorry
[22:00] <ogra> ah, not the roastbeef then :)
[22:00] <lool> So is it the new coherence or the rb fix which helps?
[22:00] <lool> (/me was maintaining rb in the past, and used to call it rb too, but "the rb" confused me ;)
[22:01] <crevette> totem plugin uses latest API
[22:01]  * ogra just returned from the restaurant :)
[22:02] <crevette> and so rb need to be updated to use too
[22:02] <crevette> previously nothing was working
[22:02] <crevette> rb with 0.5.6 was crashing
[22:03] <lool> crevette: Does totem work with current coherence?
[22:03] <crevette> yep
[22:03] <crevette> but the plugi is not included by default
[22:03] <crevette> plugin
[22:17] <lool> crevette: Ok, I'm officially lost; can you sum up the 
[22:17] <lool> minimal things we should do for fixing broken things in intrepid?
[22:20] <crevette> lool: pushing updated coherence plugin for rb, I'm taking to have this done upstream
[22:21] <crevette> sync python-coherence from debian
[22:21] <lool> crevette: Is that second part required?
[22:21] <crevette> for totem, I'm going to see if seb128 is interested in providing coherence in totem-plugins-extra
[22:22] <lool> Ok
[22:22] <lool> Sounds like a plan
[22:22] <crevette> yup
[22:22] <crevette> My plan for now is to sleep
[22:22] <crevette> bye bye
[22:22] <crevette> see you