[00:04] <hokmen> yeah, finally i arrive here. - hokmen chan
[00:05] <hokmen> i think the firefox(about:config section) can be completed as you wish to. since the hash functions upgraded
[00:06] <hokmen> we all know when the spams easier to be stopped since the sep15 openssl and gnu version upgrade.
[00:07] <hokmen> networking from argo
[00:07] <hokmen> bye
[00:07] <hokmen> 886
[13:29] <Ziroday> @schedule singapore
[14:36] <freeflying> @schedule shanghai
[15:58] <pitti> hi
[15:58] <bdmurray> pitti: hi
[15:58]  * Hobbsee drive-by waves
[15:59] <sbeattie> hey
[16:01] <slangasek> morning
[16:01] <dendrobates> hiho.
[16:01] <cjwatson> hi
[16:01] <kwwii> hi
[16:03] <lool> Heya
[16:04] <pitti> argh, my keyboard just went crazy; I need to reboot, back in 3
[16:04] <slangasek> mdz, davidm, Riddell: ping?
[16:04] <Riddell> hi
[16:05] <slangasek> hiya
[16:05] <davidm> sladen, I'm here and lool is the mobile expert :-)
[16:05] <slangasek> Henrik is on holiday, it appears
[16:05] <davidm> slangasek, that is
[16:05] <ogra> davidm, sladen will be pleased to hear that *g*
[16:05] <davidm> got to watch the tab completions.
[16:06] <ogra> yeah, i'm catching that special one as well all the time
[16:06]  * ogra wants that vor<tab> extends to slangasek :P
[16:06] <slangasek> I imagine there are scripts for that :)
[16:06] <ogra> heh
[16:07] <slangasek> ok, quorum; let's get started
[16:07] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:07] <MootBot> slangasek, There is already a meeting in progress.
[16:07] <slangasek> um what
[16:07] <Hobbsee> #endmeeting
[16:07] <Hobbsee> #end meeting
[16:07] <Hobbsee> hmm
[16:07] <slangasek> sigh
[16:07] <slangasek> ok, moving on without the bot
[16:08] <cjwatson> Keybuk: the last #startmeeting was yours; please end it
[16:08] <slangasek> sbeattie: as heno is not here, would you like to give us a brief run-down on QA's status? (if you're comfortable doing so)
[16:08] <sbeattie> Sure
[16:08] <Keybuk> #endmeeting
[16:08] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:08.
[16:08] <Keybuk> :)
[16:08] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:08] <ogra> was that running since yesterday ?
[16:08] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:08. The chair is slangasek.
[16:08] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:08] <slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
[16:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
[16:09] <slangasek> ogra: yes :)
[16:09] <sbeattie> Some bugs we'd like to see some movement on:
[16:09] <ogra> heh, long log then :)
[16:09] <sbeattie> * bug 258743 NM 0.7 Fails To Set Custom MTU/static IP configs not persistent
[16:09] <sbeattie> * bug 273833 v86d missing from initramfs
[16:09] <sbeattie> * bug 258432 Intrepid live cd drops to busybox, needs more time to find CD livefs
[16:09] <sbeattie> * bug 271550 ia32-libs missing libQtDbus/breaks skype (universe package)
[16:09] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2008-09-26
[16:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2008-09-26
[16:09] <slangasek> (link to the agenda)
[16:10] <sbeattie> slangasek: last successful Live CD build was 20080923
[16:10] <slangasek> well, I believe there was a successful Live CD build today
[16:10] <pitti> re (sorry, hardware sucks)
[16:10] <slangasek> just grossly oversized and requiring investigation :)
[16:11] <sbeattie> slangasek: ah, just built within last 4 hours
[16:11] <slangasek> [LINK https://launchpad.net/bugs/258743
[16:11] <slangasek> meh
[16:11] <slangasek> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258743
[16:11] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/258743
[16:11] <slangasek> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273833
[16:11] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/273833
[16:12] <slangasek> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258432
[16:12] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/258432
[16:12] <slangasek> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271550
[16:12] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/bugs/271550
[16:12] <sbeattie> we're making progress on the automated cert testing, 18 machines successfully installed the alpha 6 alt cd this week
[16:13] <cjwatson> 258432 is open in my browser but I haven't had a chance to prod it yet :-/
[16:13] <slangasek> none of the above bugs showed up on my milestone list earlier; do you think they should all be blockers for beta?  (I'm skeptical of this myself)
[16:13] <pitti> sbeattie: with alternate and preseeding, or the desktop and some automatic clicking?
[16:13] <cjwatson> I think 273833 needs a decision from the kernel team on what to do?
[16:13] <cjwatson> since last I heard was that it was OK for v86d to be missing
[16:13] <pitti> is v86d really missing? rtg told me it really shouldn't be isntalled at all?
[16:13] <cjwatson> right, that's what I heard
[16:14] <cjwatson> the syslog noise is annoying though
[16:14] <pgraner> slangasek: Sorry I'm late, call ran over
[16:14] <sbeattie> Mmm, I hit v86d missing on an attempt to use the livecd from 20080923.
[16:15] <cjwatson> right, you're seeing the log messages, but they aren't fatal
[16:15] <slangasek> pgraner: understood :)
[16:15] <cjwatson> any fatal problem is something else ...
[16:15] <pgraner> BenC: can you comment on LP #273833?
[16:15] <sbeattie> cjwatson: I think bug 246269 is the fatal issue
[16:15] <cjwatson> anyway, we should discuss the specifics on #-devel
[16:15] <lool> :win 10
[16:15] <lool> Ups
[16:15] <bdmurray> right, I wasn't sure how the two were related
[16:16] <slangasek> [ACTION] follow-up discussion about bug 273833 on #ubuntu-devel
[16:16] <MootBot> ACTION received:  follow-up discussion about bug 273833 on #ubuntu-devel
[16:16] <BenC> pgraner: Um...if it's not in initramfs it's because it isn't installed
[16:16] <sbeattie> pitti: alternate with preseeding
[16:17] <slangasek> sbeattie: 258743 is marked regression-potential, but it's rather opaque who has set this tag and on what basis... this is known to have worked before?
[16:18] <sbeattie> slangasek: hmm, probably not. we've had some exuberant regression tagging, sorry for the noise on that..
[16:18] <slangasek> sbeattie: well, if it's not a regression, I think the priority goes way down on that one; what do you think?
[16:20] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up with \sh on bug #271550, to find out where libqt went
[16:20] <MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to follow up with \sh on bug #271550, to find out where libqt went
[16:20] <cjwatson> [we're running over ...]
[16:21] <sbeattie> slangasek: I agree
[16:21] <sbeattie> We held a test day with good turnout, we'll hold another on Oct 6
[16:21] <sbeattie> I think that's we have, bdmurray?
[16:21] <sbeattie> err, that's all
[16:22] <bdmurray> sbeattie: that's it
[16:22] <slangasek> ok, thanks guys
[16:22] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
[16:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
[16:22] <slangasek> pitti: hi
[16:23] <pitti> Status of desktop specifications:
[16:23] <pitti> all implemented (2 are deferred due to needing upstream work), so there will not be any changes any more on that front
[16:23] <pitti> any questions on the spec front? if not, I'll go on
[16:23] <cjwatson> keep going, we can ask questions at the end if need be
[16:23] <pitti> Bugs from Steve's list:
[16:23] <pitti>  * #259278 (knetworkmanager doesn't work with NM 0.7): Jonathan uploaded fix to network-manager PPA, will be tested over weekend and land on Monday if all goes well
[16:23] <cjwatson> (or in the middle or whatever ...)
[16:23] <pitti>  * #269500 (misaligned options in Log Out dialog), #269504 (wrong 'suspend' icon in shutdown dialog): Ken just created new icons and sent the update to Seb, who will sponsor it today
[16:23] <pitti>  * #274140 (fast-user-switch-applet shows wrong suspend/hibernate options): it currently seems to guesstimate, instead it should ask g-power-mgr over dbus what options are available; bug is well understood, and Ted is on it; ETA today
[16:23] <pitti>  * #274146 (too many logout applets on upgrade): IMHO there is *no* correct way to get this right on upgrades; users will need to remove the one they don't like manually, and we can release-note the issue; discussion started in the bug, but I don't expect this to be fixed by beta, or even final.
[16:23] <pitti>  * #262228 (guest user can lock themselves out): I have the fix halfway ready, ETA today or at most Monday
[16:23] <pitti>  * #274303 (warning users on upgrade that non-free X drivers aren't compatible): Michael is currently doing fi
[16:23] <pitti> nal testing on the fix, ETA today
[16:23] <pitti>  * #260242 ("report a bug" doesn't work): Fixed with this morning's apport upload
[16:24] <pitti> Other bugs we lifted to beta critical:
[16:24] <pitti>  * #258083 (photo import broken for libgphoto digicams): I fixed the underpinnings in fuse yesterday, now we need to teach f-spot --import to accept a ~/.gvfs/<fuse mount> path; shouldn't be too hard, Seb or I will nail it down Monday, at most Tuesday
[16:24] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to open release-notes task for bug #274146
[16:24] <pitti> so in summary I think the bug front is under control, albeit last-minute work as always
[16:24] <MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to open release-notes task for bug #274146
[16:25] <pitti> Future issues which might impact the release:
[16:25] <pitti>  * #274085 (update Ekiga to 3.00): the "Abiword 2.6 plz" bug of intrepid, came up a few days ago; currently leaning towards "no", but if somebody picks it up and will care about providing packages with a working upgrade path and will care about regression reports, I'd be willing to bless it
[16:25] <pitti> ^ for that, since there seems to be a PPA of the package, maybe that guy will pick it up (haven't checked yet whether he's upstream)
[16:25] <slangasek> yes, great to see this aggressive set of bugs milestoned for beta - better for beta than final :)
[16:26] <pitti> right
[16:26] <slangasek> the ekiga ppa is from an upstream, yes
[16:26] <slangasek> we can talk about ekiga out-of-band, I think
[16:26] <Riddell> bug 273489 is important, will there be a language-pack upload before beta?
[16:26] <pitti> given our current workload, we won't have time to bring that in for beta, though
[16:26] <lool> Yeah, please note that the packaging differs significantly and the package name are a pain
[16:27] <lool> (for ekiga)
[16:27] <pitti> Riddell: there are constant automatic langpakc uploads, at least they are supposed to happen twice a week
[16:27] <Riddell> that doesn't necessarily answer my question :)
[16:27] <pitti> slangasek: but good point, we should get a fresh -base upload to minimize their size; I'll talk to Arne
[16:27] <pitti> Riddell: ^
[16:28] <slangasek> [ACTION] pitti to discuss a fresh langpack -base upload with Arne, related to bug #273489
[16:28] <MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to discuss a fresh langpack -base upload with Arne, related to bug #273489
[16:28] <pitti> Riddell: well, if it's not fixed in intrepid, then there's a bug in langpack-o-matic's cronjobs or rosetta itself; can we discuss this in #devel? I wasn't aware of that so far
[16:28] <slangasek> anything else before we shuffle along?
[16:28] <pgraner> Web cam support broke
[16:28] <pitti> not from my side
[16:28] <pitti> pgraner: ah, because we are using hte upstream driver now which threw out all the color codec stuff? is it that?
[16:28] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
[16:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
[16:28] <slangasek> lool: hi
[16:28] <lool> pgraner: quickcam?
[16:28] <lool> pgraner: got that too
[16:29] <pgraner> pitti: yep https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/267522
[16:29] <lool> Heavy copy-pasting planned
[16:29] <lool> Stuff we will likely drop for intrepid:
[16:29] <lool> * poulsbo drivers; Intel said they'd provide a code drop for intrepid in ... January; unlikely to be suitable for intrepid-updates as well; need to drop psb from xserver-xorg-video-all for now as it gets used automatically and we don't want that, but we want to keep the package as a placeholder just in  case we get a doable update; bug #274833
[16:29] <mdz> (slangasek: here now)
[16:29] <lool> Stuff which landed: installer
[16:29] <slangasek> mdz: 'morning :)
[16:29] <lool> Stuff we're targetting at intrepid:
[16:29] <lool> * DC-built images (cdimage) dailies based on mobile/i386 seed (only mid/lpia seed so far); bug #274838
[16:29] <lool> * kernel union fs: aufs needs an update (main kernel is affected as well), we're still using unionfs as a workaround right now; amitk on it, almost done; bug #264048
[16:29] <lool> * no wifi for Q1U on lpia; ath5k doesn't work with the chip and no lrm for lpia; amitk working on providing lrm for lpia; bug #274832
[16:29] <lool> * mid images fail to install due to misc ubiquity/kernel/grub/lpia interactions; bug #182004, bug #274752, bug #274753, bug #274781, bug #274785 track these issues; lots of small things discovered only as soon as we had kernel meta in place (happened this week)
[16:30] <lool> So that last list is scary, it's many small things
[16:30] <lool> Questions?
[16:30] <cjwatson> there's a problem with getting the mobile seeds honoured by germinate on drescher (which may feed into something above, not sure)
[16:30] <slangasek> you said "targetting at intrepid"; are all of these beta things, and which ones are critical?
[16:30] <cjwatson> we got the initial trivial patch sorted out, but the task names are all wrong
[16:31] <cjwatson> lool: are you planning to use the tasks for beta?
[16:31] <lool> cjwatson: I know we discussed task headers yesterday
[16:31] <lool> cjwatson: In the seeds data?  I think so
[16:31] <cjwatson> bugger, I'd better get that sorted out quickly then
[16:31] <lool> cjwatson: One issue was that mid was using task-seeds: desktop-common incorrectly, that I dropped
[16:31] <cjwatson> at the moment the task names will come out as mobile-mobile and mobile-mid
[16:32] <cjwatson> is that OK for you, or would you want them to be just mobile and mid (bearing in mind that that's a tedious code change)?
[16:32] <lool> Ok
[16:32] <cjwatson> if you can tolerate those task names, we can leave them like that
[16:32] <lool> cjwatson: I think the descriptions are clear enough that I wouldn't bug you for the cosmetic of the short name; would be nice to fix them on the long term naturally
[16:32] <cjwatson> persia sent me patches for 274781 and 274785 today, which should be straightforward to integrate (though I haven't looked at them yet)
[16:32] <cjwatson> ok
[16:32] <cjwatson> that's a relief
[16:33] <cjwatson> will still need a tasksel update probably
[16:33] <lool> Ok; I have little clue about that; I'd rather have persia and you sort tasksel out at this point
[16:33] <cjwatson> it's trivial
[16:34] <lool> Ok; want a bug?
[16:34] <cjwatson> no need
[16:34] <lool> Topic closed then, thanks for raising tasks short names
[16:34] <lool> Any other Q on the above release updates for mobile?
[16:34] <slangasek> you said "targetting at intrepid"; are all of these beta things, and which ones are critical?
[16:34] <hokmen> dear ubuntu friends
[16:34] <hokmen> I think double AI for data packages at both sides will do bad things.
[16:35] <hokmen> a example：
[16:35] <cjwatson> hokmen: please use a different channel; we're holding a meeting.
[16:35] <hokmen> afo send me two links which point to his qq mail box (that is afunction for file downloading in tencent qq mail box)
[16:35] <lool> slangasek: The beta critical issue is the last one; the other stuff we would like to have in beta or the soonest basically
[16:35] <hokmen> and then i can not download it if it come with the hash() verify code in url.
[16:35] <lool> slangasek: We could live with any of the other points staying open, but it would be ugly
[16:35] <hokmen> ok
[16:36] <slangasek> lool: and related to that, do people on your team have the necessary bits to escalate these bugs?  e.g., bug #264048 is 'undecided' importance, which puts it a the bottom of the milestoned bug list
[16:36] <hokmen> i think this is a kind of double AI(or say g.f.w) for data packages at both sides. we need to cooperation, not do it by your own selves. sorry for interrapt
[16:36] <cjwatson> could somebody please +q hokmen
[16:37] <slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to follow up on mobile bug list and ensure appropriate milestones are set
[16:37] <MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to follow up on mobile bug list and ensure appropriate milestones are set
[16:37] <lool> slangasek: TBH, we didn't make enough use of bugs severities and milestones, or bugs in general, and are trying to improve; this particular bug is at the top of amitk's list though
[16:37] <lool> slangasek: I did milestone this bug today though
[16:38] <slangasek> lool: right; the place where milestones/severities help are for letting the rest of team know what to expect in the upload
[16:38] <lool> (I hope it's still ok to milestone in beta to try to fix before beta and remilestone for final if we didn't)
[16:38] <slangasek> ... upload queue :)
[16:38] <slangasek> ok, let's push ahead
[16:38] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
[16:38] <lool> slangasek: As the bug number show, we did file a bunch of these very recently, which would also explain they didn't show up in your lists
[16:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
[16:39] <BenC> Hey
[16:39] <slangasek> hiya
[16:39] <pgraner> BenC has been driving the kernel the last few weeks...
[16:39] <pgraner> BenC: status?
[16:39] <BenC> So, I was out for a week, and have been catching up for the past week or so...I can only comment on what has been very visible
[16:40] <hokmen> will you pass that message to all BSD teams?
[16:40] <cjwatson> hokmen: please go elsewhere
[16:40] <BenC> As of right now I am concentrating on acpi hotkeys, crashdump and as of today, last-good-boot
[16:40] <BenC> the first two items Are generally fixed, and need some uploads
[16:40] <pitti> BenC: any chance of making l-g-b a bit more efficient?
[16:40] <slangasek> BenC: there's a hitlist of bugs in the agenda, in case you haven't seen; bug #263555, bug #253904, and bug #260675
[16:41] <BenC> The final item, last-good-boot, I've only recently heard of some issues
[16:41] <BenC> e1000e is being removed
[16:41] <rtg> I've been working on bug #263555
[16:41] <BenC> linux-meta doesn't need to build a lot of meta packages
[16:41] <hokmen> things is going good
[16:41] <pitti> but we still need all of them for upgrades, at least until 10.04 (next LTS)
[16:41] <BenC> linux-ports-meta will be filling the void on that one, and smb is preparing an upload
[16:41] <dendrobates> pgraner:  BenC: 2.6.27 is currently crashing in EC2.  We have a fix that zul is testing today.
[16:41] <BenC> pitti: ^^
[16:42] <pitti> Hobbsee: are you channel admin? can you please ban hokmen?
[16:42] <pitti> BenC: ah, thanks
[16:42] <pgraner> dendrobates: bug number?
[16:42] <cjwatson> pitti: (he left)
[16:42] <pitti> BenC: which one will build the ones for the dropped flavours?
[16:42] <BenC> pitti: linux-ports-meta
[16:42] <dendrobates> we don't have one yet, but will in a few minutes.
[16:43] <pitti> BenC: nice to see that resolved, thanks
[16:43] <pgraner> dendrobates: great
[16:43] <BenC> pitti: if there are other flavours we need to fill the void for, we'll get those too
[16:43] <BenC> pitti: things like -xen, -rt and -openvz don't have an upgrade path
[16:43] <BenC> pitti: but we never guaranteed one
[16:43] <slangasek> rtg: what are the prospects of having a better fix for 263555 for beta than 'remove the driver'?  That option leaves a lot of laptop users without ethernet, I think
[16:44] <rtg> Investigation into the e1000e flash corruption is still ongoing by the kernel dev community. Its a very high profile issue on LKML right now.
[16:44] <rtg> I believe it has existed since at least Gutsy. I remember a patch that allowed e1000 to load despite checksum failures.
[16:44] <rtg> In the meantime I've disabled it in the Intrepid kernel. No resolution in sight.
[16:44] <BenC> slangasek: e1000 picks up those PCI id's
[16:44] <pitti> BenC: so those folks will just stay with the hardy kernel then?
[16:44] <BenC> pitti: right
[16:44] <rtg> BenC: I'm coming to the conclusion that it might not be a driver issue.
[16:45] <slangasek> there are -rt kernel packages in intrepid, as well as a linux-meta-rt, so I think that one's resolved anyway
[16:45] <sbeattie> rtg: bug 60388 is the e1000 invalid checksum bug
[16:45] <rtg> sbeattie: thats the one. I did it for Jane and Mark
[16:45] <slangasek> BenC: ah, so is that change in place already to have e1000 take over these PCI IDs?
[16:45] <slangasek> if so, we can probably un-milestone the bug?
[16:46] <rtg> slangasek, BenC: its not the solution
[16:46] <BenC> slangasek: I'll let rtg comment on this since he's been tracking the whole situation...
[16:47] <rtg> Reverting to the e1000 driver isn't going to fix the root cause. No bosy is really sure what it is yet.
[16:47] <slangasek> ok
[16:47] <rtg> Hopefully we'll find it soon.
[16:48] <rtg> Intel is putting a lot of resource into it.
[16:48] <rtg> thats all from me.
[16:48] <slangasek> ok, then I think that bug is where it needs to be right now
[16:48] <slangasek> thanks, guys
[16:48] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
[16:48] <MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
[16:49] <sbeattie> slangasek: one other thing, QA talked internally about escalating issues like e1000e earlier to release team/manager; we think this specific issue got overshadowed by 2.6.26->2.6.27
[16:49] <cjwatson> Milestoned bugs:
[16:49] <cjwatson> 256054: taken to ubuntu-devel for discussion; ifupdown plugin available for testing; alternatives are to write a simple plugin to make all interfaces unmanaged, or to have an "nm-managed" option in interfaces t
[16:49] <cjwatson> hat ifupdown is taught to understand
[16:49] <cjwatson> 226139: sorry, don't have status on this, though I see that there's a patch available upstream
[16:49] <cjwatson> 182004: I'm working hard on this, hope to be finished today
[16:49] <cjwatson> Targeted bugs:
[16:49] <cjwatson> 247376: still blocked on upstream, but 274303 will at least give us a workaround for upgrades (see pitti's update)
[16:49] <cjwatson> 185311: no progress since last time, not optimistic
[16:49] <cjwatson> 267884: no progress since last time, but should be tractable
[16:49] <cjwatson> 272772: big transition bug including OOo, have pointed it out to calc
[16:49] <cjwatson> 180309: don't have status on this
[16:49] <cjwatson> 261543: I've got feedback from Scott, in progress
[16:49] <cjwatson> 272318: recurrence of previous issue, no progress yet though
[16:49] <cjwatson> 273271: new UI bug, should be easy, may squeeze this in for beta
[16:49] <cjwatson> 267682: some progress, not entirely fixed yet though (FDI addition broke detect-screens; HAL issue? needs yet more analysis)
[16:49] <cjwatson> 270423: not sure what's happening here, but post-beta
[16:49] <cjwatson> Misc issues/features:
[16:49] <cjwatson> OOo 3.0 due in PPA today, perhaps universe for intrepid but not main
[16:49] <cjwatson> OpenJDK compiler currently targeting 1.6 by default which breaks older VMs (e.g. Blackdown); doko is gathering information on what targeting 1.4 instead would lose us
[16:49] <cjwatson> bryce has been working on merging updated acpi-support quirks from Debian and will be continuing with this, with a view to knowing more about the work required to bin it for jaunty
[16:50] <cjwatson> expecting a new code drop for BBC content in totem, now that the production server is available and some new video formats need to be enabled; would like to upload this pre-beta if possible, if it's in time
[16:50] <cjwatson> not quite finished enabling mobile seed germination in LP; still needs another code change there :-(
[16:50] <cjwatson> actually, you can ignore that last line, I prepared this before the mobile update
[16:50] <slangasek> sbeattie: yes, I agree that should've been escalated much earlier
[16:52] <cjwatson> no questions, or is everyone still digesting? :)
[16:53] <pitti> cjwatson: 267672> I vaguely understood it as that -evdev now grabs the keys and sends them as events to X
[16:53] <pitti> as opposed to acpi-support/hal grabbing the keys and running their usual scripts
[16:54] <mdz> cjwatson: digesting
[16:54] <pitti> but ICBW, I have no firm idea how this actually works
[16:54] <mdz> cjwatson: I haven't looked at it in detail, but "experimental plugin" as a solution for 256054 makes me vaguely nervous
[16:54] <slangasek> cjwatson: been digesting :)
[16:54] <cjwatson> pitti: the more recent updates to that bug indicate that a hal fdi script helped many of the problems (although regressed one), so something is clearly going through hal
[16:55] <cjwatson> mdz: personally, I'm somewhat open to the "leave it alone" solution as well
[16:55] <mdz> cjwatson: isn't it a regression from 8.04?
[16:55] <pitti> cjwatson: I think it's *supposed* to go trough hal, and with the new -evdev it wasn't any more
[16:56] <mdz> pitti: I don't fully understand what's going on in bug 267682
[16:56] <pitti> mdz: I think nobody really does :(
[16:56] <cjwatson> I think it probably is a regression, but people using both /etc/network/interfaces (non-trivially) and network-manager have had to deal with all sorts of crap :-/
[16:56] <cjwatson> a new plugin is no more invasive that n-m 0.7 is to start with, I feel ...
[16:56] <mdz> pitti: would it help to have someone figure out how it was working in 8.04?
[16:57] <mdz> since there seem to be multiple paths which handle those events
[16:57] <pitti> mdz: yes, absolutely
[16:57] <pitti> yeah, at least hal+hal-info and acpi-support are doing basically the same thing slightly differently
[16:57] <pitti> and now -evdev grabs them as well, which doesn't make things easier
[16:57] <mdz> pitti: what does the fdi file actually do?
[16:57] <pitti> mdz: it basically tells -evdev to ignore the spethial keys
[16:58] <pitti> so that hal and acpid grab them again
[16:58] <mdz> pitti: should we open a separate bug about the brightness keys?  that seems like it may be a different issue
[16:58] <pitti> and thus run the acpi-support scripts / the hal addons
[16:58] <slangasek> pitti: acpid was always grabbing them...
[16:58] <mdz> slangasek: indeed
[16:58] <pitti> slangasek: yeah, whichever hal/acpid got it first, I suppose
[16:59] <pitti> but nice to see that everyone seems to have a different piece of the puzzle
[16:59] <slangasek> I don't know how hal grabs them, but it appears to /not/ be through the /proc/acpi/events interface or the acpid socket
[16:59] <pitti> I purged acpid and acpi-support, and things still work the same as before; that's when hal/hal-info take over and do what we do with acpi-support
[17:00] <mdz> in the longer term, should we be aiming to get rid of acpid entirely?
[17:00] <pitti> mdz: ++
[17:00] <pitti> and acpi-support as well
[17:00] <cjwatson> as I said, bryce's studies of acpi-support are aimed at having enough knowledge to get rid of it in jaunty
[17:00] <pitti> I think the right thing to do is to convert our remaining delta in acpi-support to hal-fdi scripts and submit that upstream, and forget about that Ubuntuism
[17:00] <mdz> slangasek: hal *should* be getting them via the acpid socket if acpid is running
[17:00] <cjwatson> we just need to do it at the start of the cycle rather than vacillating for a few months
[17:00] <mdz> pitti: ok, agreed
[17:01] <cjwatson> which involves somebody who cares at the start of the cycle
[17:01] <mdz> but that's probably not feasible for intrepid
[17:01] <pitti> mdz: no, too much regression potential
[17:01] <mdz> pitti: I have a thinkpad running 8.04 where all of the hotkeys work, I'll look at that over the weekend
[17:01] <mdz> I'll take an action for that
[17:01] <zul> ls
[17:01] <slangasek> mdz: one thing I've observed is that if I stop acpid while hal is running, hald-addon-acpi doesn't reconnect to /proc/acpi/event, but the hotkeys still work
[17:02] <mdz> slangasek: *boggle*
[17:02] <slangasek> [ACTION] mdz to look into how hotkeys worked in 8.04 (bug #267682)
[17:02] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mdz to look into how hotkeys worked in 8.04 (bug #267682)
[17:02] <pitti> slangasek: *all* of them? my computer has brightness hardwired, for example
[17:02] <mdz> it's not the same thinkpad where I'm experiencing 267682, but hopefully it will  shed some light
[17:03] <pitti> slangasek: but yeah, that stuns me as well
[17:03] <slangasek> pitti: all of the ones reported to work in my last comment on the bug
[17:03] <cjwatson> we're at 14 minutes on my slot now ...
[17:03] <pitti> slangasek: -evdev -> gnome-settings-daemon/gnome-pwoer-manager then perhaps?
[17:03] <pitti> slangasek: or did you have Timo's fdi in place as well?
[17:03] <slangasek> pitti: this is specifically with Timo's fdi in place
[17:03] <pitti> boggle
[17:04] <slangasek> anyway, let's continue this seemingly-endless discussion on #ubuntu-devel :/
[17:04] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
[17:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
[17:05] <slangasek> dendrobates: hi
[17:05] <dendrobates> HI
[17:05] <dendrobates> We have no critical bugs at this point, but we are still triaging some of the kvm bugs.
[17:06] <dendrobates> one possible upload though,
[17:06] <dendrobates> we are waiting to hear back fomr amazon about opensourcing some scrpits used with ec2
[17:07] <dendrobates> we have already integrated these scripts into vmbuilder, but have not uploaded that version.
[17:07] <dendrobates> we are expecting to hear by the beginning of bext week.
[17:08] <dendrobates> and we have a bug for the ec2 kernel issue, 274849
[17:08] <slangasek> vmbuilder> ok; that sounds like it will probably slip until post-beta then?
[17:08] <slangasek> (i.e., release team probably won't accept it into the archive for beta that late)
[17:08] <mdz> dendrobates: are there any important changes in vmbuilder which are blocked by the licensing issue?
[17:08] <pitti> dendrobates: is the krb5-kdc -> main issue critical for beta?
[17:09] <mdz> dendrobates: I thought you asked amazon about those scripts weeks ago
[17:09] <dendrobates> mdz the ability to directly use AMI.
[17:09] <mdz> bug 274849
[17:09] <dendrobates> mdz:  we did, but they are a large company, the developer has agreed, but needs approval.
[17:10] <dendrobates> we have a potential fix for 274849: http://people.ubuntu.com/~chucks/kernel-xen.diff
[17:10] <dendrobates> they told us they could tell us by next week.
[17:11] <dendrobates> we can still build and  ec2 images if they do not opensource it, but we cannot integrate the deployment functionality into vmbuilder.
[17:12] <dendrobates> pitti: I don't think it is critical to beta
[17:12] <slangasek> patch for 274849> not mentioned in the bug itself?
[17:13] <pitti> dendrobates: *nod* (it's also fairly new)
[17:13] <dendrobates> slangasek: it;s all very new, updating now.
[17:14] <mdz> dendrobates: is it impossible to do without their scripts, or would we just need to reimplement some of them?
[17:16] <dendrobates> mdz we might need to make it a two stage process, where either a webapp helps you deploy, or we perhaps another app in muti-verse that deploys.
[17:16] <dendrobates> mdz: chuck soren and I are working through the possibilities.
[17:16] <dendrobates> but we really hope amazone says yes.
[17:17] <cjwatson> [server slot at 13 minutes]
[17:17] <slangasek> yes, there doesn't seem to be much more we can do about EC2 here in the meeting
[17:18] <slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
[17:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
[17:18] <slangasek> ScottK doesn't appear to be about today; is there anyone else who can speak on behalf of motu-release?
[17:19] <cjwatson> Hobbsee perhaps?
[17:19] <slangasek> Hobbsee isn't on motu-release this cycle
[17:19] <cjwatson> ah
[17:19] <slangasek> none of the others are here either; I'll take that as a "everything's going great" and move along :)
[17:20] <slangasek> [TOPIC] General feature update
[17:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  General feature update
[17:20] <slangasek> this should be a null topic because we're all working on bugfixes right now instead of features, but just in case, does anyone have anything to discuss here? :)
[17:21] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Known regressions
[17:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  Known regressions
[17:21] <mdz> [LINK] http://people.ubuntu.com/~sbeattie/regression_tracker.html
[17:21] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~sbeattie/regression_tracker.html
[17:22] <cjwatson> oh, that's nice
[17:22] <slangasek> yes, it is
[17:22] <slangasek> except the count is too high, hmm :)
[17:23] <bdmurray> we've had some possibly overzealous tagging
[17:23] <slangasek> is the QA team reviewing these tags for correctness?
[17:23] <mdz> sbeattie: ^^
[17:24] <mdz> the ones I've seen get tagged are reasonably accurate
[17:24] <slangasek> can the tagging policy require that the facts of the regression are documented in the bug log itself?
[17:24] <bdmurray> slangasek: it does
[17:24] <cjwatson> 92014 is an ... interesting suggestion for "regression"
[17:24] <mdz> slangasek: ++
[17:24] <sbeattie> yes, been reviewing a bit.
[17:24] <slangasek> bdmurray: ah; then I should consider myself at liberty to remove the tag from any where this is not the case?
[17:25] <sbeattie> slangasek: agreed, we'll add that to the documentation.
[17:25] <sbeattie> slangasek: yes
[17:25] <slangasek> (e.g., the n-m bug discussed earlier)
[17:25] <cjwatson> where's the documentation for the tag semantics? could it be linked from the tracker?
[17:25] <cjwatson> (something a little more extensive than the one-liners, if any)
[17:25] <slangasek> ok; that page gives us something to digest off-line
[17:26] <sbeattie> cjwatson: it needs fleshing out but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RegressionTracking is it.
[17:26] <slangasek> which I'll definitely have to do
[17:26] <cjwatson> sbeattie: thanks
[17:26] <mdz> while we have everyone's eyes on it...does that page render very slowly in firefox for anyone else?
[17:27] <cjwatson> no
[17:27] <slangasek> it scrolls slowly for me
[17:27] <mdz> scrolls very slowly for me
[17:27] <pitti> it starts scrolling slowly halfway down
[17:27] <pitti> initial rendering is fasat
[17:28] <mdz> ok, thanks, don't want to interrupt the flow of the meeting
[17:28] <slangasek> [TOPIC] hardware testing
[17:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  hardware testing
[17:28] <slangasek> heno and cr3 aren't here to give us an update, but I've discussed hardware certification with them earlier this week
[17:28] <mdz> I received a report from Henrik a little while ago
[17:28] <mdz> it's a bit difficult to interpret though, I think it still needs work
[17:29] <slangasek> hardware cert is ongoing and results seem to be good, but the website lacks a summary view
[17:29] <sbeattie> yes, reporting needs work.
[17:30] <slangasek> I've asked them (and David Murphy) for a summary that will show which tests are failing, which hardware has test failures, and which hardware (if any) hasn't been tested recently
[17:30] <sbeattie> cr3 and schwuk are open to suggestions on what/how to report
[17:30] <mdz> slangasek: I've forwarded you what I have in case you didn't already have it
[17:30] <slangasek> mdz: ok, thanks
[17:30] <slangasek> [TOPIC] ISO size
[17:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  ISO size
[17:30] <sbeattie> slangasek: I think it'd be useful to have an overview of what's being tested (successfully) as well.
[17:31] <slangasek> desktop CDs are oversized again; we got several days'-worth of changes in a batch due to some livefs build issues, and now we're at 711MB for both archs
[17:31] <mdz> sbeattie: yes, it should be a simple red/yellow/green for every system
[17:32] <cjwatson> has anyone done a diff against 20080923?
[17:32] <slangasek> I have the diff of newly-added packages - looks like landscape-common, libcanberra-gnome, and bluez-{input,network,serial} are the new top-level additions, so I'll be chasing these up today to find out who's to blame for eating up all the space (there are a /lot/ of libs pulled in)
[17:32] <cjwatson> (build logs should still be around, at least)
[17:32] <cjwatson> ok
[17:33] <slangasek> so in the meantime, everybody just keep thinking thin :-)
[17:33] <pitti> slangasek: for the record, it's not langpacks; they haven't changed since sept 6, due to the export crashing for some dubious reason
[17:33] <slangasek> pitti: noted :)
[17:33] <pitti> bluez-* are in fact new, but were split-outs from hardy
[17:33] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[17:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[17:33] <slangasek> and that's all I have - anything else?
[17:34] <mdz> slangasek: well done finishing up on time
[17:34] <Riddell> slangasek: KDE 4.1.2
[17:34] <Riddell> we have tars now, we could upload this weekend probably
[17:34] <Riddell> or wait until after beta if preferred
[17:34] <slangasek> better before beta than after
[17:35] <mvo> is there a chance for the feature freeze exception for compiz 0.7.8 to be considered before beta?
[17:35] <slangasek> mvo: yes; let's discuss that separately
[17:35] <mvo> ok, thanks
[17:35] <Riddell> slangasek: I'll get the kubuntu packaging ninjas onto it
[17:35] <slangasek> sounds like we're done, then
[17:35] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[17:35] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:35.
[17:36] <slangasek> thanks, folks
[17:36] <dendrobates> byeee
[17:36] <pitti> thanks everyone