persiaIn last night's meeting, we passed over the testing of gthumb vs. f-spot.  For the current images gthumb+gphoto2 requires an additional 15.5MB of pre-compressed disk space, and f-spot requires an additional 141MB of pre-compressed disk space.03:59
persiaI'm strongly tempted to use gthumb based just on that (although it sacrifices functionality)04:00
persia141MB.  directhex is working to make mono dependency chains smaller, but it doesn't appear to have made intrepid.04:00
StevenKYes, it was a statement of suprise, not questioning04:00
persiaAlso, we already have a lot of the dependencies for gthumb, for various reasons.  -mobile has f-spot, so users with the larger hardware get more features.04:01
persiaDespite the increasing processing and storage in a modern MID, I'm just not sure we need anything too fancy, as people will want to do real photo processing on some other device anyway.04:02
persiaThe complete list of new pacakges pulled by gthumb + gphoto2 is : gphoto2, gthumb, gthumb-data, libcdk5, libgphoto2-2, libgphoto2-port0, libltdl704:03
persiaWe could probably drop gphoto2: that's 928k on-disk for the CLI front-end (I may be in the minority of people who uses shells on MIDs)04:04
* persia tests gthumb04:08
persiagthumb seems to look OK.04:24
persiaAt least I can preview pictures, and flip through them to display them to others.04:25
* StevenK kicks moblin-applets04:25
StevenKIt depends on icons under /usr/share/icons/gnome/32x32/apps/*.png04:25
=== matt_c is now known as RACCOON
=== RACCOON is now known as matt_c
persiacrevette: I'm giving up on bluez-gnome 0.28 again.  The changelog looks great.  Your packaging works great.  The communications and audio portions show no regressions from 0.27.  It solves the appearances bugs.  I can't verify that it works with any bluetooth input devices.  Mind you, I can't get 0.27 to work either, but I'm nervous about any update without knowing it doesn't break something.06:59
* StevenK waves to lool08:23
loolpersia: The uninstallability is still here with the meta kernel in place, and ogra is hit by this as well on i386 images08:24
persialool: Hrm?  Which uninstallability?  The one from me breaking the seeds, the one from grub missing, or the one from the kernel not being installed?08:25
loolI know it's kernel / grub interaction, but don't have the specific error08:26
persialool: OK.  It would help to know which error you mean if you say you're seeing it on i386 images.  Each has a rather different cause, and only the one about me breaking the seeds (now fixed) should have affected i386.  There may also be other issues (I know of two different grub issues that were reported at least once, but remain unverified).08:27
lool23:16 < ogra> according to my users the install works flawless ... but they end  up with error 15 after reboot08:30
persiaThat's a different image.  I can't get ogra's image to work well for a number of reasons.  It looks beautiful if you boot off USB.  It doesn't work in KVM.  It doesn't boot on either my Core 2 Duo or my Atom Z250.  It doesn't install for me, even on the hardware on which it boots, and I get different errors each time.08:32
persiaAnyone with an Aigo MID about?  What's the battery life like?09:15
loolamitk: Topic wifi: what was the idea with ath5k fixing for Q1U?09:29
loolOr was the plan to get restricted modules?09:29
amitklool: since I am a bit pressed for time here, I am considering doing an LRM for LPIA. I would've liked to study why ath5k doesn't work but that can be left for later.09:30
amitklool: from beta freeze point of view would it be better to have an LRM package in before the freeze? Or do you want aufs first?09:31
amitk...aufs fixed first09:32
loolamitk: We are in beta freeze already :-(09:34
loolamitk: I think we really want both for intrepid; order perhaps doesn't matter too much09:34
loolI'd say the regression potential is higher for aufs, so it would be best to start testing it soonest09:34
loolLRM's madwifi is just boring stuff, but we want wifi :)09:35
loolI don't see much risk with LRM though09:35
amitkack... working on aufs now09:35
persiacrevette: I think I missed you earlier.  I'm just not having any success with getting bluetooth input to work :/  If I don't use bluez-gnome, it doesn't work.  If I do use bluez-gnome, it doesn't work more, but the not working is the same for 0.25 and 0.28.  As I can't test, I'm not comfortable pushing the upload, unless someone can confirm it doesn't break a working setup.09:40
crevettecan you get in touch with ubuntu dev who can test it ?09:41
crevettehello persia by the wau09:42
persiaI'm not sure who has the hardware.  I don't think it matters if it's an Ubuntu dev.  I've just not heard of anyone who is known to have bluetooth input working, who could be asked to test the update and make sure it doesn't break.09:42
persiaOh yeah.  Good morning :)09:42
crevetteperhaps a message on bluetooth mailing would do the trick09:42
persiaI thought slytherin sent one a couple weeks ago.  You could send another.09:43
* lool didn't know about /+junk09:49
loolCool stuff09:49
persiaHandy, at least.09:49
* ogra hopes persia made a list of these various issues 10:49
ograi'm only aware of one which seems to be that grub doesnt install anything 10:49
persiaOK.  #1: doesn't boot in KVM10:49
persia#2: doesn't boot on D410:50
ograD4 ?10:50
persia#3 doesn't book on Y710:50
ograY7 ?10:50
persiaSharp D4.10:50
persiaPanasonic Y7.10:50
ogradoesnt boot as to which point10:50
* persia couldn't find a good large-format desktop from Sharp10:50
persiaDoesn't boot as in BIOS doesn't recognise the image as a bootable device.10:50
persiaBoots fine on the SR.10:51
persiaLooks great.10:51
persiaCan't install.10:51
ograyeah, i read things like that on the blog posts on umpcportal10:51
persiaYou *really* want to change the preseed.  About the only thing you want to preseed is the automatic login.10:51
ograthough i wouldnt know why, its a vfat usb image with bootsecor10:51
persiaYeah, that's confusing me.  Does it work in virtualbox?10:52
ograi didnt try10:52
ograand i actually cant since i use ose10:52
persiaI especially don't know why the D4 can't boot off it: I can boot off the -mid dailies just fine.10:52
ogra(no usb support)10:52
persiaNo disk image support?10:52
persiaClaim it's an IDE drive when you boot.10:52
ogradisk image, yes, usb, no10:52
persiaThat's what I do with KVM.  Works like a treat for other images.10:53
=== asac_ is now known as asac
ogranewest VB asks for registration ? 10:54
ograand hangs after that10:54
davmor2ogra: suns great isn't it :)10:54
* persia likes Sun a lot, but the internal communication paths need some work10:55
persiadavmor2: Have you tried the -mobile image?  Does it work on your hardware?10:55
ograbah, and you still cant alt-tab with it10:56
ograthey should rather fix that than adding reg forms10:56
persiaAnyway, back to issues:10:56
persiaThe install failed to copy some stuff.  I'm redownloading to see if that's my download vs. the manifest files.10:59
persiaThe install also replicated http://people.ubuntu.com/~stevenk/IMG_2090.JPG which makes me very happy.  I've planned a liveCD install tomorrow, and if I can replicate there as well, then it's not me.11:00
ogravery likely caused by the missing task11:05
ograthat should be fixed in my next build11:05
persiaOK.  Are you populating the manifest files also?  The filenames are hardcoded in the ubiquity source, so cannot be changed.11:06
ograbtw whatever you removed from the seeds didnt make cjwatson happy ... that needed germinate changes as well11:06
persiaWell, I removed a *lot*.  One thing was restored.  The failure was in my testing.11:06
ograi'm using livecd-rootfs so they should be populated11:06
ograbut since the task was missing very likely with the wrong content11:07
persiaRight.  That would make sense.11:07
persiaYay.  redownload finished.  Now for reburn, and another install attempt.11:08
loologra, persia: what are the currently open bugs on installation issues with the mid and mobile images?11:19
loolAny other issue which is not filed as a bug yet?11:19
loolI want to milestone all of these to make sure all get fixed for intrepid, and I'd like to raise them at the release meeting later today11:20
ograi dont have any bugs yet 11:20
ograwill set them up during the day while i do installation testing11:20
persialool: Good point.  We'll try to get the installation stuff filed as bugs tonight : at least the tasks, daily building, etc.11:20
loologra: How many different issues are we speaking about right now for your image?  one?11:20
ogralool, i guess only one 11:21
ogramight be two 11:21
loolpersia, ogra: please file them asap, meeting is pretty soon  ;)11:21
persiaThe fact that the image itself is unrecognised by KVM and several HW devices is likely related to handling, rather than to the code.11:21
davmor2query on MID should it stop at the boot prompt at the beginning?  I'm guessing not.11:21
* persia runs an install test.11:21
ogralool, i wont manage before the meeting, simply because i havent seen them yet11:21
persiadavmor2: It does.  Whether it should or not is open for debate :)11:21
persiaogra: Do an install :)11:22
* ogra added a timeout to mobile11:22
looldavmor2: No, it shouldn't, but it makes things easier to test :)11:22
looldavmor2: But yeah, we should fix that11:22
ograpersia, i will but i doubt it finishes in time and i need a backup of my Q1 first 11:22
loolStevenK: I think we want an isolinux.cfg timeout as well11:22
persiaogra: What do you have on your Q1 that dpkg --get-selections can't handle?11:23
persiaStevenK: Yeah: having a little menu would be cool too, like the LiveCD has.11:23
ograpersia, personl data, some movies (ripped DVDs)  i dont have backed up etc11:23
loologra: When do you think we could get dailies on cdimage for mobile?11:23
persiaogra: Ah.  Makes sense.11:23
ogralool, i hope to get that done over the weekend, i need to understand StevenK's setup on antimony which i dont yet11:24
persiaogra: Have I said yet how much I like Mobile?  It's *really* a pleasure to use.11:24
ogramy blog has another 6 comments pending .... i suddenly have that every morning now 11:24
ograand another .fdi for the touchscreen :)11:25
davmor2synaptic fails to open due to admin issues and locks up the system when you hit close on the error message11:25
ogradamned, i should have done all that a month ago ... i didnt expect such a success11:25
ogralool, my prob with cdimage is that it really scares me, you can so easily mess the whole system up if you make a mistake11:26
persiaogra: No?  There's been demand for Ubuntu Mobile since at least half-way through the hardy cycle.11:27
ograpersia, still i havent thought it would kick off a landslied of feedback ... i somewhat underestimated the amount of UMPC users11:28
persiaogra: Oh.  My apologies if I didn't make that sufficiently clear previously.  There's *lots* of us, and no good software to install unless one puts it together by hand.11:29
persia(until now)11:29
ograyeah, apparently11:29
ograanyway, no usb support in vbox, the .img file cant be read as cdrom either 11:30
loologra: If you have any doubts, do the cdimage changes but run then through StevenK and cjwatson11:30
persiaMind you, -mobile still isn't best for all my hardware, but after today, I'm expecting -mid to be a good install for me.  I just have to figure out how to preserve the Vista partition, because I'm not supposed to delete it.11:30
ogralool, i will anyway11:30
ograpersia, btw, what about your touchscreen, please tell me if i need to include another touchscreen driver for you11:31
ogra(though the calibration tool wont work for it)11:31
loologra: One thing I didn't understand is what the image you blogged on was based of? I thought it was the mobile seed, but the umpcportal review and you said it was using standard panel and launcher11:32
ograthe one that didnt work with evtouch11:33
persiaOh, right.  On the SR, I need to sort out the stuff you pasted me last night.  I'll do that when I have a bit of free time (likely tomorrow).  For the D4, it's *definitely* evtouch, with the two devices and everything.  I'll fiddle about with that, and see if I can't get it calibrated as well.11:33
loolBut I do see maximus and netbook-launcher in the seed, so I'm confused11:33
ogralool, they are in the seed but not used, i will drop them before the next build11:33
ogralool, the launcher is simply to broken, maximus doesnt work with compi11:33
persiaThe image is definitely running gnome-menus, but in an implementation that works well at this DPI.11:34
loologra: Hmm why did you decide to move away from them?  I kind of expected we would get them in an intrepid image11:34
loolAnd I think the users of these as well11:34
loologra: Yeah, but why use compiz?!?11:34
ogralool, i dont see that i have the time to solve all issues and upstream doesnt either apparently11:34
loolAnd concerning the launcher, what else apart of fonts?11:34
persialool: The image is *very* nice, and works well.  I like it better than the remix.11:34
ograall sizes and positions are hardcoded11:34
loologra: Hmm ok, will we revisit this for jaunty?11:35
ograto get it working with a panelsize of 48px alone i have to rewrite and patch a lot of it11:35
ograwe can11:35
ogralets have a spec and BOF bout it 11:35
ograi'm not convinced by the apps 11:36
ograand as the reviews show you dont really need the launcher 11:36
persiaI actually prefer not having the launcher.  With the large-font menu, it's a *lot* easier to handle running multiple apps.11:36
ograthe go home applet is essentially only a rewrite of the show desktop applet11:36
loolI understand your choice, but perhaps it should have been announced more clearly; like, I'd like to have some pointer with the information we just exchanged if someone asks me why the UNR apps weren't part of the images after all11:37
ograi perfer to go with the existing one here 11:37
lool(even when talking with OEM people :-)11:37
ograthe window picker applet has all sizes hardcoded to 16px which isnt usable with a fingertip11:37
ograand maximus *only* works with metacity11:37
loolWell that's not too grave11:37
loolThe last one11:37
ograi really perfer to use compiz where we can 11:38
persialool: Let's ask this the other way: what do we gain by using the netbook remix applications?11:38
ograit impressed people a lot 11:38
ogramy aim was to be as close to gnome upstream as we can 11:38
loologra: The thing is right now you have to chose between compiz and any clutter or pigment app, such as the launcher or elisa for instance11:39
ograadding four new apps that need a *lot* of fixes and changes that nearly end up in a rewrite isnt maintainable imho11:39
persialool: Then don't use those.11:39
loolpersia: The apps are popular and widely used by people who only heard about them from a blog post and went the route if installing manually11:39
loolpersia: Uh thanks for constructive discussion11:39
ograi want gnome upstream love so we only have to care for seeds and the default settings11:39
ogramy main target was to keep the maintenance level on our side as low as possible with the biggest outcome possible 11:40
loologra: Well the choice of metacity isn't exactly a GNOME one ;-)  but that's unrelated11:40
loolerr compiz11:40
ograadding four apps that need a fulltime person to maintain them isnt really in that scope11:40
loolSure, again, that I understand11:41
ograi didnt make that coice11:41
loolwhat choice?11:41
ograit is our default ubuntu desktop ... it uses compiz if it detects composite 11:41
ograif it doesnt it uses metacity11:41
ograi didnt pick *anything*11:42
persialool: Essentially, I don't see any benefit to the netbook apps.  The netbook remix was popular in part because there are *no* other choices.11:42
ograits all desktop team work i'm using here11:42
ograthe only thing i did was set the panel layout and applet layout as well as some theme changes11:42
loologra: Ok, so you inherited compiz, but I don't think it's in argument in including clutter apps that the default is just to run compiz11:43
ograthe maintenance overhead is the reason11:43
loolIt's ok to inherit that, but the default of inheriting should be put in question if that prevents us from running apps we care about11:43
persialool: Why do we care about the netbook remix apps?11:44
ograafter using it for two weeks i must admit that i dont care that much about the launcher11:44
persiaogra: grub is being installed: but no kernel is being installed.11:44
ograi'm fine maintaining the packages in the archive and nagging upstream aboout fixes (or even contributing them) but i *dont* fell the apps are ready for production11:45
loolpersia: The UNR apps were tailored specifically for netbooks, are nice and usable; they are already popular and desired11:45
loologra: Ok; the bugs in the intrepid version really sound like it's not the time to use them11:45
persialool: I guess.  I'd rather continue with the extension of ograsac desktop as continually discussed since June.11:46
loolWhich has what upstream?11:47
persiaNo really, it's just a theme tweak, and some panel positioning.  Take a look.11:48
persiaOh, and maximise-by-default.11:48
ograThis project aims to develop prototypes to make it possible to use a plain ubuntu-desktop base on mobile platforms by just changing small parts of the UI theming and minimal toolkit patches instead of rewriting the world from scratch like other projetcs do ... the aim is to be able to use the existing awesome desktop integration and translation that is in ubuntu already and make the apps behave right on small screens with and without fingertip navi11:49
ogragation (suitable for moble devices as well as netbooks).11:49
ograthats the text of https://launchpad.net/ograsac-desktop11:49
persiaFrom which the ubuntu-mobile project grew.11:49
loolExactly the way I understood the state of ograsac-desktop: prototyping11:49
ograjust look at the feedback (and listen to what the people say that tried UNR)11:51
loolMy point is not that the UI experiments aren't interesting11:51
loolAt some point, we need to move to an upstream/packaging model11:52
loolWe're not enough people to do upstream development11:52
persiaWe are already there.  There's not a significant volume of code that differentiates Ubuntu Mobile from Ubuntu Desktop.11:52
persiaThere's no launcher, and it doesn't have the menu changing hacks.11:52
loolI want us to build cool netbook images out of the best existing free software technologies11:52
asacwell ... if there is no other viable upstream, what choices do we have?11:53
loolasac: Which part are you commenting on? :)11:53
asac"we cannot do upstream development" :)11:53
asacis there a viable alternative?11:54
persiaogra: Just to make sure: is there anything other than ubuntu-mobile-default-settings that makes this special?11:54
ograthe seed11:55
loolI'm tempted to respond from a Canonical pov; from an Ubuntu pov I'd simply say that we need to do our best in app selection and configuration of existing components11:55
ograand meta11:55
persialool: How is that different from what was done?11:55
loolBut avoid writing new software11:55
persiaThere is no new software in Ubuntu Mobile.11:55
ograwell, there is stuff from universe like xournal ...11:56
loolThis is in response to usage of a) ograsac desktop and b) UNR apps11:56
persialool: We used the idea of ograsac desktop: none of the ograsac desktop applications.11:57
loolYes, and that's fine for now11:57
ograthere are no ograsac applications :)11:57
persiaogra: Well, there's the launcher :p11:57
persia(and yes, it doesn't work, and yes, that doesn't matter)11:57
ograwhich in a similar form is now in mid11:57
loolpersia: It's like you think your statement contradicts my pov11:57
loolI do think that the choice of using GNOME and Gtk+ components for mobile for now makes sense, and customizing its look11:58
persialool: It seems to me that you have an attachment to the applications in netbook remix.  I don't understand the attachment, as I find the launcher to actively interfere with the way that I use such a device.11:58
loolBut as you were saying, you are pushing for ograsac-desktop "since June"11:58
loolpersia: I have an attachment to the UI experiment as well and it has the advantage of having a real upstream; this upstream might not be up to the level where we're confident using it in official images, especially not in intrepid, but there are upstream development resources there11:59
loolAnd user interest11:59
persiaOK.  I can understand that.  I'm not opposed to revisiting whether upstream has code in condition for deployment for jaunty.  I just don't think the current images deserve criticism for application selection.12:00
loolI expressed criticism in the choice of compiz which is only an inheritance and goes in the way of choics which could have involved clutter of pigment12:01
loolGrah, my e key has some stuff below it12:01
loolOf course you don't use "e" that much12:02
persiaOK.  Maybe I read it wrong.12:02
loolI also expressed that I would have liked more explicit dropping of the UNR apps recently12:03
lool(Cause I want such choices to be documented, not because I disagree with them)12:03
ogralool, the thing is that ubuntu-mobile was never really documented or specced12:04
persiaOK.  That makes more sense :)  Actually, that's true for many of the choices we make: we tend to just grab what works, rather than actually mention more than arbitrary griping here.12:04
ograi will change that for jaunty, theer will definately be a spec and BOFs 12:04
ograbut that wasnt the case up to the first build12:04
loologra: That's right, it was simply vaguely targetted at netbooks with the same constraints as for other ubuntu flavours12:04
loolI think choice of UI some days before beta freeze qualifies as needing some announcement, even if the seed is such loosely specified12:05
ograbtw, did you try it ? 12:05
loolNo, I want to12:06
loolWhich is also why I'm pushing you to publish dailies :)12:06
ograi wanted dailies on monday but the amount of cdimage changes somewhat pushed me back, sorry, thats definately my bad 12:06
loolIt's not that I wouldn't trust downloading it from people.u.c, but the way it's published makes me think of a prototype as well, which it's not meant to be12:06
loolThat's ok, I really want that you publish your work with intrepid12:07
ograit wont be or look much different if built from cdimage though, i use all the tools we use there and all changes i needed in the tools are committed12:07
persiaogra: But dailies means I'll install it twice a week, and that the kernel actually gets installed :)12:08
persia(or maybe more often, depending)12:08
ograpersia, i doubt the kernel will be magically fixed by building it on cdimage :)12:08
ograi'm sure its not that easy12:08
persiaogra: No, but I made some changes earlier in the week that might fix that: I don't know if they do.12:09
persiaogra: Anyway: when you have dailies, I'll be testing and fiddling bits.  Even better if you have dalies that work in KVM.12:09
ograwell, i dont see why cdimage would fix that magically either 12:10
ograthe syslinux version is the same in both environments12:10
ograanyway, i need to go on wit testing, lost way to much time for this discussion now ... 12:11
persiacdimage doesn't fix it.  cdimage gives me fresh images to fiddle with whilst you sleep.12:11
ograpersia, since you are the only one yet seeing the install failure on mobile, can you file a bug i can follow up to ? 12:13
persiaogra: Anyway, I'm just testing the complete boot after a fixed install.  I have a feeling about how this needs to be, but not yet confirmed.12:13
ograwe urgently need something with a description for the release meeting12:13
persiaSure, although I'm going to try to fix it first.12:13
persiaYeah, before the release meeting, you'll have a bug.  I have a couple to file against -mid as well.12:14
persiaI guess file against the meta packages?  I'm not sure where else the image bugs go, unless we understand which component needs tweaking.12:14
asaclool: ok. i think i didnt get the topic right then ;)12:16
asac(sorry had connectivity issues)12:16
StevenKpersia: Does the install work, though?12:20
persiaStevenK: I think so.  Just patching it up manually, and will reboot.  The kernel is missing.12:21
StevenKpersia: Is that due to the kernel not being in a repo on the image?12:23
StevenKlool: And isolinux.cfg?! We don't use that12:23
ograpersia, meta is fine for now 12:23
ograStevenK, he means syslinux.cfg12:23
StevenKI know that :-)12:23
StevenKPatches welcome :-P12:24
persiaogra: With a manually installed kernel, -mobile works great.  I'll see if I can sort out why it's not being installed, and let you know.12:24
ograpersia, but please file a bug ... release meeting is after team call and we will be blocked if loic cant present a bug number 12:25
persiaAlthough the set of available bluetooth services for -mobile looks very bad.12:25
persiaogra: I will.12:25
ogramerci :)12:25
* persia is doing a -mid install with manual hinting to track down the issues there too, and make sure that the list is complete for the meeting.12:26
persiaStevenK: Actually, if everything is built, could you generate a new -mid image?  I think what I have, and what I will have are sufficiently different to be interesting.12:27
StevenKpersia: Such as the new meta?12:28
persiaAnd having a terminal emulator :)12:29
persiaogra: Do you use bluetooth for anything?12:31
ograno, i just notice the icon in the panel12:32
ogramy phone is supposed o be capable ... i could try to use the Q1 as handsfree device12:32
persiaogra: OK.  By default, it only works for audio.  Not for transfer to the phone or input.  I suspect you may need a couple extra packages.12:33
persia(or maybe this is an issue for -desktop)12:33
StevenKpersia: Just checking, looks like everything has.12:35
persiaStevenK: Excellent.  I'd like to see how it looks, so we can make sure to feed lool any bugs he wants to raise.12:35
persiaOK.  Word back from the Xubuntu folk is that there is a good reason for thunar to recommend xfce4-panel, but it's safe to miss.  Does anyone happen to know if blacklisting a recommendation in the seeds works?12:38
StevenKBeg Colin.12:38
persiaOh well.12:39
persiaOK.  Outstanding installation issues.  Please chime in if anyone has experienced anything not on this list (as I'm filing bugs):  no grub on -mid, no kernel on -mid, no kernel on -mobile, preseeding issues on -mid, preseeding issues on -mobile, no support for 480 vertical on -mid.12:51
ogra no support for 480 vertical on -mid ??12:54
persiaogra: Nope.  There's ways around it, but it's a bug.  I don't expect to fix it for intrepid.12:55
ograah, ubuquity12:55
ograi was thinking generally :)12:56
persiaYep.  It's a wishlist bug at best.12:56
persiaThe solution is to create glade files for a new front-end, but that defeated me (and I should have been concentrating on function rather than appearance at the beginning)12:56
loolStevenK: Sorry, meant syslinux.cfg; syslinux and isolinux are the same upstream software suite12:57
StevenKlool: I know. I'm teasing. :_)12:58
loolStevenK: Damn Australian humor!12:58
loolStevenK: You had too much Champagne at the party12:58
StevenKI had no champagne12:58
loolI wonder whether you can get Australian white wine with CO²?12:58
* lool had some tasty Australian wine a couple of times12:59
ograpersia, oooh, see the ML 12:59
ograits a menu.list issue it seems12:59
ograhe doesnt say he needed to install a kernel13:00
amitklool: why do you have make sparkling wine so scientific :-/13:00
loolamitk: I was searching for the word sparkling; I had Kohlensäure in mind and couldn't think of the English word anymore :)13:00
* lool was thinking of Sekt, Sprudel, this kind of things13:01
loolArf, the menu.lst issue is almost the same as the MIC one13:02
davmor2lool: just buy a soda stream ;)13:02
=== davmor2 is now known as davmor2_Lunch
loolOh, vlc 0.9.2, cool13:14
=== Andrade is now known as Guest90321
=== Andrade[1] is now known as Andrade
loologra: You have a bug for the install issue?13:42
=== davmor2_Lunch is now known as davmor2
ogralool, persia said he would put it up13:59
ograpersia, ?13:59
persiaI don't have the number in front of me.  Read my mail to the list :)13:59
* persia is filing other bugs.14:00
persialool: Bug list: bug #182004 bug #274752 bug #274753 bug #274781 bug #274785 bug #274786 I have local branches for 274781 and 274785, and will make them available to the installer team after another test round.14:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 182004 in ubiquity "partitioner fails if partially preseeded due to seen flag madness" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18200414:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 274752 in mobile-meta "No kernel installed for ubuntu-mid flavour" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27475214:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 274753 in mobile-meta "No kernel installed with ubuntu-mobile" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27475314:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 274781 in grub-installer "Please add support for the lpia architecture" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27478114:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 274785 in ubiquity "Ubiquity should select grub as the boot loader for lpia" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27478514:28
=== njpatel is now known as njpatel_away
persialool: bug #274789 is specifically *NOT* targeted for intrepid.14:29
ubottuLaunchpad bug 274789 in ubiquity "ubiquity should have a smaller interface to work on 640x480 screens" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27478914:29
loolpersia: thanks14:30
* ogra is shocked by DHL14:46
ogramy n800 just arrived14:46
ograand instead of ringing at the bell they just put it in front of the door on teh ground 14:47
davmor2ogra: At least you got it :D14:48
ograi'm in love14:48
davmor2Het it's good but it's not that good ;)14:49
ograyeh, the 810 is better 14:49
ograbut i got it cheap 14:49
ograand i wanted recent arm HW14:49
davmor2ogra: I got mine free :) the 810 is more up-to-date arm though isn't it?14:50
ograbut the n800 totally suffices my needs atm14:50
davmor2ogra: if you want really up to date you may wish to consider a beagle board14:50
ograi'll definately subscribe to the maemo dev program for the next HW release14:50
ograi was to late for the 81014:51
ograyeah, i know it14:52
ograi would love to develop a thin client variant in ltsp for it it should make the best thin client ever14:52
davmor2I love the fact that the chip it runs has a separate MM core14:53
ograits quite limited in ram though14:53
ograyou wont run a gnome desktop on it that way14:53
davmor2ogra: you could always get a developer version of these http://store.neurostechnology.com/neuros-osd20-developer-p-55.html14:56
=== njpatel_away is now known as njpatel
* ogra hugs persia thanks for getting all these guys a working install :)15:40
persiaWell, I wanted a working install, so I had to figure it out.15:41
* ogra woders whats up with g-p-m 15:42
ograit doesnt show me that the battery is charging in the applet15:42
ogramoun -t proc proc /proc should help with the proc errors btw15:43
persiaYeah, but it doesn't matter.  Just ignoring them works.15:43
persiaOK.  Release meeting.  Let's see how much pain we get for the bugs.15:58
ograpersia, about bug 274786, mobile expects the user to be called ubuntu by default, i have no onscreen kbd in gdm yet15:59
ubottuLaunchpad bug 274786 in mobile-meta "ubuntu-mobile install should be less agressively preseeded" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27478615:59
ograso its set to autologin with that username15:59
ograi agree about the locaion though15:59
persiaogra: You can preseed the "log in automatically" value, and then gdm will autologin with the user's selected username.15:59
ograoh, i didnt know that 15:59
ograi'll try that as soon as i have the first cdimage build then16:00
persiaYep.  That's what the checkbox is for.  Should actually make it easier for you.16:00
ographew another 5 blog comments within the last 2h16:00
persiaWhat's the URL again?16:00
ograi didnt approve all of them yet, i want to have the time to comment on them if i do16:02
persiaRight.  I just like to read them :)16:02
* ogra needs to go shopping soon, i promise susie since three days that we do that ... will be afk for 1-3h16:04
persiaNo, that blog entry is a placeholder until we get a volunteer to be a forums moderator.16:04
ogranot yet though16:04
ograhmm, steve didnt notice that i moved, i guess i need to clear that up with him (i used to live about 50km away from him, now its more like 350)16:05
BenBradleywhile true; me = me + 1; sleep 31556926; done16:15
loologra, amitk: do we have a bug for madwifi or ath5k on Q1U not working for intrepid?16:15
persialool: For i386 or amd64 or both?16:15
looli386 has madwifi in lrm16:16
loolWho suggested we should blacklist poulsbo?16:16
persiaI have poulsbo hardware.  X only works if I uninstall xserver-xorg-video-psb16:17
persia(yes, this is counterintuitive)16:17
loolpersia: May I ask you to file a bug to remind us to remove it from xorg.conf generation?16:18
loolamitk: Is there a bug for lrm on Q1U?16:18
loolerr lrm/lpia to support Q1U16:18
persialool: Hrm?  Where does that belong?16:18
persialool: I think it's fixable, just not quickly.  I'd rather keep the package as a placeholder for an SRU.16:19
persiaOr do you mean fiddling the .fdi files to not prefer it?16:19
loolpersia: Is any software explicitely pulling the package?16:19
loolIf it's not part of video-all, then we probably don't care16:19
* persia checks16:19
persiaIt was on the image anyway16:20
loolpersia: The mid dailies?16:20
persiaYeah.  It's part of -all16:20
persiaMaybe it shouldn't be part of -all, and when we fix it, it can get restored?16:21
loolOk; so we should drop it from there if it's broken, ok with you?16:21
loolYeah, that's what I have in mind as well16:21
ogralool, bug 27483216:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 274832 in mobile-meta "no linux-restricted-modules for lpia flavour" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27483216:21
persiaThat's fine.  I was just tired last night and annoyed that my hardware required fussing.16:21
* persia files a bug16:21
loologra: Thanks16:21
ogranominated for intrepid as well16:21
loolpersia: thanks!16:21
loologra: perfect16:21
* lool appreciates the help with the bugs :)16:21
ograsorry for slacking, i wanted to file that weeks ago16:22
ogralool, do i need to put up a bug for ubuntu-mobile vs. cdimage.u.c ? 16:23
ogra(woudl that help ?)16:23
loologra: You can16:23
loologra: You mean the DC-built images (cdimage) dailies based on mobile/i386 seed?16:23
loolwe could also have a bug for ath5k not working on Q1U16:24
persialool: bug #27483316:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 274833 in xorg "Please disclude xserver-xorg-video-psb from xserver-xorg-video-all" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27483316:24
ograyes, i mean for the inclusion of the ubuntu-mobile images in the build scripts16:24
persiaThat does need a bug.16:24
* persia forgot it when filing earlier: apologies16:25
loolpersia: Thanks16:25
loologra: I think it's nice to track it as a bug, but if you do it straight away you can skip it   :-P16:25
ograi wont be able to 16:25
loologra: Perhaps best to have this on the release team's radar's bug list16:26
loolI will mention it for sure though16:26
ograneed to do some real life stuff soon ... i'll attack it tonight16:26
ograbug 27483816:26
ubottuLaunchpad bug 274838 in mobile-meta "ubuntu-mobile images need to be built ob cdimage.ubuntu.com machines" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27483816:26
ograalso nominated16:26
ogrameh, typoed it16:27
persianominated?  I thought we were supposed to have them milestoned by the release manager for the flavour.16:27
ograwell, i want it to be on the intrepid radar in any case16:27
persiaAt UDS I distinctly remember slangasek saying he didn't use nominated bugs as a search criteron.16:28
loologra: thanks16:28
ograpersia, well, better than nothing16:29
persiaogra: Indeed.16:29
ograi cant set milestones it seems for whatever reason16:29
persiaIf they are on the agenda for the meeting, the rest hardly matters.16:30
persiaYou aren't a driver.16:30
ograwell, i was able to for hardy16:30
ograbut that changed apparently for intrepid16:30
ograit used to work for all of ubuntu-core-dev16:31
persiaRight.  It got restricted.16:32
* lool seems to be able to16:39
amitklool: no to both17:13
=== robr_ is now known as robr
=== njpatel is now known as njpatel_away
* persia just remembered there is no icon for the installer18:33
persialool: Are you still about?  There's a couple ways we could add an icon for the installer, but they're all a bit messy, and I'd like to run them by you.18:34
loolpersia: I'm all ears18:35
persiaWell, the basic issue is that ubiquity installs a .desktop file on the home directory Desktop.18:35
persiaSince -mid doesn't actually show the desktop, this isn't visible.18:35
persiaAlso, we want to run in --automatic mode, so we don't want to use that .desktop file.18:35
persia(which makes the preceeding not so bad).18:36
persiaSo, here are some possible solutions:18:36
persia1) add a ubuntu-mid-installer-wedge binary package to ubuntu-mid-default-settings that contains the launcher we want, and gets deleted post-install.18:36
persia2) hack kourou to pull the ubiquity desktop file iff ubiquity is installed (we lose --automatic)18:37
persia3) install the installer launcher into the unionfs during the image boot (but not have it be in the squashfs)18:37
persiaThere are probably others, but those are the first that come to mind.18:37
loolI think we want a .desktop file which would show up like the others18:38
loolThis should be shipped by ubiquity, just like the Desktop thing18:38
loolWe don't need a new package for that, and I think it's ok if it shows up in the menus for everybody; we should just pick the proper place18:39
persiaExcept we only want it for -mid.  Everyone else doesn't want to be in --automatic mode.18:39
loolYou might want to discuss the specifics with cjwatson18:39
loolAh, didn't see the automatic mode let me think a sec18:39
loolis there another way to set automatic mode?  such as preseeding18:39
persiaWe can have a special flavour of ubiquity that does it, but that seems like more overkill than ubuntu-mid-installer-wedge18:40
loolthat does what?18:40
persiathat includes our special .desktop entry.18:40
loolI was proposing to have it in the main ubiquity, for everybody18:40
persiaYeah.  They don't want that.18:41
loolYou checked with cjwatson already?18:41
persiaNo need.  running in --automatic would significantly change the standard install behaviour.18:42
loolMy idea was to just have ubiquity in the .Desktop file and set automatic mode with preseeding18:43
lool19:39 < lool> is there another way to set automatic mode?  such as preseeding18:43
persiaI'll double check, but I'm fairly sure --automatic can't be preseeded. 18:44
loolCould it be changed easily?18:44
loolautomatic mode's preseeding18:45
loolI mean preseeding of automatic_mode=true|fakse18:45
persiaNo.  There might be a way to hack it with environment variables.18:48
loolDoesn't help18:48
loolpersia: Ok; so we could create the .desktop file in casper below the home dir18:48
loolWhich would be somewhat 3)18:48
persiaand hack kourou to look there?18:49
loolNo, should be xdg18:49
loolLike .local/share blah18:49
loolBut I don't have the specifics :)18:49
persiaOh, right.  We might be able to do that.  You like 3) better than 1) then?18:49
persiaI think 1) is cleaner, but it does require NEW.18:49
loolYeah, package is overkill18:49
loolThere are plenty some such hacks in casper; I prefer not piling too many, but it's ok to add a small one like this18:50
loolI think I'll ask cjwatson whether he has plans for preseeding automatic mode though18:50
persiaIf you like, but given the architecture of ubiquity, I'm not sure how that would work.18:50
persiaGenerally, the preseeding works against d-i, rather than against ubiquity, and ubiquity just uses it.  In --automatic mode, ubiquity doesn't show interfaces where it knows the answer, and in regular mode, it prepopulates the preseed answers.18:51
=== robr__ is now known as robr

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!