/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/09/27/#ubuntu-artwork.txt

Cimi	kwwii, they are working great, just tested	00:00
Cimi	http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/175266/Schermata-1.png	00:02
Cimi	see the entry on the right	00:02
Cimi	on the left	00:06
Cimi	LOL	00:06
Cimi	_MMA_, seen? :)	00:15
_MMA_	I did.	00:18
_MMA_	Cimi: Sorry. I'm starting to get into the evening here. My family calls.	00:19
Cimi	_MMA_, ok ;)	00:19
Cimi	good evening	00:19
* kwwii comes out of hibernation		00:34
Cimi	kwwii, thanks for the mockups, they look amazing!	00:55
Cimi	_MMA_, killed the kids? :)	01:05
_MMA_	No.	01:05
rsc-	sup fellas :)	01:12
Cimi	_MMA_ è uscito ("Time to kill the kids.")	01:17
_MMA_	Cimi: Oh! haha. My away message. :P	01:20
kwwii	Cimi: they are coming, I am working on them right now	01:22
* Cimi changes pc		01:27
kwwii	Cimi: http://sinecera.de/murrine_mock.png	02:08
kwwii	not done though	02:08
kwwii	and when I look at it on this laptop I think it still needs a lot of work	02:09
kwwii	and with that, I am off to bed	02:13
Cimi	everything should be doable	02:13
Cimi	though I'm not in love with the progressbars with the vertical separators	02:14
Cimi	and optionmenu is deprecated ;)	02:14
rsc-	i never really understood why there's both a combo box and an option menu.	02:27
rsc-	Cimi, hello, gtk documentation. any clue on how I can make an exception for OpenOffice to make it use a different style for toolbars and menus? :)	02:29
rsc-	and horizontal padding for toolbar buttons?	02:31
thorwil	i wonder what some people are smoking. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/human-theme/+bug/272832/comments/7	09:00
ubottu	Launchpad bug 272832 in human-theme "new design still not implemented" [Undecided,Confirmed]	09:01
DanaG	Hmm, the first time I've tried the Kin theme, now that it's packaged.... I kind of like it. Makes me feel an urge to eat some fruit, actually.	09:06
DanaG	=þ	09:06
Zirodaeee	thorwil: its stupid rumors from the people at digg	09:55
Zirodaeee	thorwil: there was an idea going around about a deviantart contest and some people thought it was true	09:55
thorwil	Zirodaeee: yes. i just don't get how one can jump from hearing about an idea to writing it actually happened	09:56
Zirodaeee	thorwil: silly blogger trying to get thier 5 minutes of fame	09:58
Zirodaeee	writing absolute rubbish	09:58
thorwil	kwwii: interesting requirements for membership in fedora art group: http://mihmo.livejournal.com/62031.html	10:34
kwwii	thorwil: yeah, I thought that was a good idea	10:39
thorwil	kwwii: definitively	10:39
rsc-	:D	12:05
rsc-	http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/red-ibex.jpg	12:07
zniavre	rsc-: really nice	12:08
rsc-	yes unfortunately the wood texture isn't in public domain	12:08
rsc-	so, shit.	12:09
thorwil	yesterday i scanned wood. not such a dark and straight one, though	12:15
rsc-	http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/114190/2009%20Dust/bare.png	12:16
rsc-	alpha-blended PNG of the Ibex composition. knock yourself out :)	12:16
* thorwil is knocking his system out with 600dpi scans		12:18
rsc-	nice.	12:18
rsc-	i'm sure others would appreciate it if you have a few of those available to the public :)	12:18
thorwil	rsc-: maybe i will torture bzr/LP with them ^^	12:19
thorwil	rsc-: i'll try if your composition fits on one of them later on	12:19
rsc-	i can imagine that LP won't be the most ideal way to share hi-res textures :P	12:19
thorwil	rsc-: yes, but i want versioning and backup for my work, anyway	12:20
thorwil	rsc-: but now i have to use a cloudless sky for cycling! :D	12:20
thorwil	laters	12:20
_MMA_	rsc-_: Do you have you original Ibex, without the background available? I wanted to see what I could do background-wise.	13:17
rsc-_	_MMA_, of course	13:19
rsc-_	_MMA_, its in the mailing list	13:19
rsc-_	or are you referring to something else?	13:19
_MMA_	I never was it "without the background".	13:20
_MMA_	ie: just the Ibex.	13:20
_MMA_	SO I could try it as a overlay.	13:20
rsc-_	you mean the ibex picture?	13:21
rsc-_	http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/114190/2009%20Dust/bare.png	13:22
rsc-_	here's the composition I made, without the background. It's an alpha-blended PNG so you can drop on top of any background you want	13:22
rsc-_	and here's the source:	13:22
rsc-_	http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Capra_ibex_ibex_%E2%80%93_03.jpg	13:22
rsc-_	..where I traced it from	13:23
_MMA_	Yeah. bare was what I was looking for. Thanx.	13:23
DannyKing	Looks fantastic rsc-_	13:23
rsc-_	thanks Danny	13:24
_MMA_	I really think this could be used as-is with a gradient put on the background.	13:26
rsc-_	hehe	13:26
rsc-_	perhaps	13:27
rsc-_	#3F3223 / #231717 works	13:27
rsc-_	vertical #201919 to #6B4646	13:28
_MMA_	I would maybe hide a little more of the legs/horns though.	13:29
rsc-_	ah, yeah.	13:29
rsc-_	didn't really get to polish this much, sorry	13:30
rsc-_	in fact those aren't supposed to show at all	13:30
_MMA_	Because they kinda contrast against the abstract parts that have a sharper look to them.	13:30
rsc-_	mustve been a layer i forgot to invisible-ize	13:30
_MMA_	Ahh...	13:30
rsc-_	lemme try to revise.	13:30
_MMA_	cool	13:30
rsc-_	I also don't like those 3 lines that look like a moustache. =P	13:31
_MMA_	:)	13:31
rsc-_	hmm.	13:33
rsc-_	http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/114190/2009%20Dust/bare.png	13:33
rsc-_	refresh guys	13:33
* _MMA_ has to start using DropBox.		13:34
rsc-_	it seems okay at first, but it's still lacking a few key features.	13:35
_MMA_	rsc-_: I'll give it a min. Seems to be hanging.	13:35
rsc-_	for instance, it syncs all files across your computers. so if you use it as a backup tool, your other computer will also download the backups that it shouldn't, heh :)	13:35
_MMA_	Ahh...	13:36
rsc-_	but its very promising. worth checking out	13:36
DannyKing	I actually just started using it too	13:37
DannyKing	I love it	13:37
_MMA_	Time to make new upload to Breathe BZR.	13:38
rsc-_	wheres the breathe bzr?	13:38
DannyKing	What's the progress, _MMA_ ?	13:38
_MMA_	DannyKing: I should be putting out that call for icon ideas today.	13:38
DannyKing	Great, I'll hang around and try to participate :)	13:39
_MMA_	I just updated the template and the 6 icons that are on that 1st page.	13:39
_MMA_	They needed some technical additions in order for a script to correctly build the set from the SVGs later.	13:39
rsc-_	bzr branch lp:breathe..?	13:40
DannyKing	Ah right	13:40
_MMA_	So now, all I do is drop in the new images we create.	13:40
DannyKing	That'd be jimmac's script? It's a brilliant idea	13:40
_MMA_	Si	13:40
_MMA_	https://code.launchpad.net/~breathe-dev/breathe-icon-set/trunk	13:41
_MMA_	So: bzr branch lp:breathe-icon-set	13:42
rsc-_	brilliant	13:42
rsc-_	how do i contribute?	13:42
_MMA_	rsc-_: I still need to upload my current changes.	13:42
_MMA_	rsc-_: Well uploading will be strictly controlled as to avoid hickups. But the plan is to focus on specific isons at a time. Though, anyone is free to grab a SVG and work on others.	13:44
_MMA_	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Icons	13:44
_MMA_	The child pages will continue to get populated with the base Oxygen set.	13:45
rsc-_	sweet,i just did a bzr branch. can i use the icon theme now?	13:45
_MMA_	You will see a PNG preview and have the SVG source there.	13:45
_MMA_	Oh no. There's nothing but the start of things.	13:46
rsc-_	is this .py the script of jimmac?	13:46
_MMA_	Yes, but it has been through revisions with help from a Inkscape guy. (tedg)	13:47
_MMA_	Still needs some polis.	13:47
_MMA_	*polish	13:47
rsc-_	it takes the .svg's and rasterizes each into .png?	13:47
_MMA_	Si	13:47
_MMA_	But I still need to grab the big one for scalable somehow. It's been tricky. I might need a new feature in Inkscape to do it.	13:48
DannyKing	I think jimmac also released a great app that lets you view all your icons next to each other (including all sizes of the same icon)	13:48
rsc-_	hmm, the folders aren't showing	13:48
_MMA_	DannyKing: It's a webpage.	13:48
DannyKing	Oh cool, I'll take a look	13:48
_MMA_	rsc-_: Aren't showing how?	13:49
rsc-_	hehe, nevermind.	13:49
rsc-_	I was assuming the icon theme folder was populated.	13:49
_MMA_	no no no no . WAY too early for that.	13:49
_MMA_	rsc-_: ATM, there's nothing to do but create.	13:50
rsc-_	is there a script to take source_svg and render out to rendered?	13:51
* rsc-_ is considering on making a Makefile.		13:51
_MMA_	I'm pushing changes now. I have 1 more push in a min though.	13:51
rsc-_	okay	13:52
_MMA_	rsc-_: ¿Qué?	13:52
_MMA_	Damn. I meant "why". :P	13:53
_MMA_	Why the makefile?	13:53
rsc-_	haha, i dont know, is render_bitmap.py enough to generate the Breathe iconset folder?	13:53
_MMA_	The .py script will handle building the set.	13:53
rsc-_	oh okay	13:53
rsc-_	sorry, I wasn't sure :P I thoguht the .py only did individual files	13:54
_MMA_	No. It parses 'source_svg' and puts everything in 'Breathe' in the correct place. Or at least will. Mostly works now minus the "scaleable" icon.	13:55
rsc-_	doesn't quite work here, hehe	13:56
rsc-_	it expects "./svg" on my copy	13:57
rsc-_	(rev 10)	13:57
_MMA_	I just pushed rev12 with an updated script.	13:58
rsc-_	okay	13:58
rsc-_	o_O	13:59
rsc-_	its working!	13:59
_MMA_	This looks to work just fine. Though it throws errors. Ill have to talk to Ted.	13:59
_MMA_	:P	13:59
_MMA_	Well, duh. ;)	14:00
DannyKing	Anyone know how to easily widen /only/ the bottom of some text to create perspective in Inkscape (the text goes into the distance), similar to the star wars intro text. I'd rather not convert to path	14:01
_MMA_	DannyKing: Should be a path effect.	14:02
DannyKing	Hmm okay thanks, I'll take a look	14:02
_MMA_	http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=perspective+inkscape&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=	14:03
_MMA_	I think those are the videos I saw. Though tedg said there was an easier way.	14:03
DannyKing	That appears to be perfect, thanks	14:05
_MMA_	\m	14:05
_MMA_	\m/	14:05
Cimi	_MMA_, why people on the mailing list keep using top-posting even if they are noticied?	14:15
_MMA_	Cimi: Because they use Gmail and hides the posting order. Look at the address next time 9/10 times it's a gmail user.	14:16
_MMA_	Even though, I use Gmail.	14:16
Cimi	_MMA_, me too, but I spend 2 seconds in respect of the non-gmail users	14:17
_MMA_	I know, I know. I post correctly not of of respect for non-gmail users. It's because of the web archive.	14:18
_MMA_	If you look at our ML online, many threads are a mess.	14:18
Cimi	_MMA_, let's ban gmail users from subscribing	14:23
_MMA_	The actual plan was to have links to the rules for new subscribers. With an emphasis on posting etiquette. Something kwwii still has to do.	14:24
DannyKing	Ugh, Inkscape gets /so/ slow	14:54
_MMA_	DannyKing: When?	14:54
_MMA_	I also assume you're using SVN?	14:55
DannyKing	When ever you have anything that starts to get complex (lots of nodes, lots of patterns, lots of blur especially)	14:55
DannyKing	Yeah, well I use both stable and svn	14:55
_MMA_	PRGUY85: thorwil is the one to talk to re:kyudo. But he's not here atm.	14:56
Cimi	DannyKing, xrender is slow because of the drivers	14:57
_MMA_	DannyKing: This is where multi-threading would be nice. That Severed Fifth wall is a bear this way.	14:57
PRGUY85	MMA, thanks a bunch. One thing do you have to be a designer in order to help?	14:57
_MMA_	PRGUY85: Depends on what you want to do. Action will get you more respect than talk. So it just depends on how you get involved.	14:58
PRGUY85	MMA, the thing is I have read the guidelines but I don't really understand your next steps or goals. It looks like all rhetoric (and important) but I don't get what you will do next. And if I don't get that, then I don't know how I can help.	14:59
_MMA_	PRGUY85: They will be guidelines for whatever we as a community want to focus on in a cycle.	15:00
PRGUY85	MMA: So what's the next step right now for everyone working on kyudo	15:01
_MMA_	PRGUY85: But it always strikes me as odd when people offer to help but have no clue what they can offer.	15:01
PRGUY85	MMA, sorry then and thanks for your time.	15:02
_MMA_	PRGUY85: What can you offer? What do you do?	15:03
PRGUY85	MMA: As I said, I posted my limitations from the get-go. I am no designer and have no advanced knowledge to create artwork. I have aided Dilomo diligently in his New Wave theme and right now am in charge of that theme's development. The aid I can offer is more of a tester and idea man. However, I am sure you've all got plenty of those.	15:05
kwwii	the first stuff that thorwil has been working on is the mood boards	15:08
kwwii	that was posted to the mailing list	15:09
kwwii	I would read up on that and start there	15:09
_MMA_	PRGUY85: "I am no designer" is all you said today. Not really telling. I have no clue who you are otherwise. The rest of the items you just posted gives me a better idea.	15:09
PRGUY85	MMA, I just thought that was really all you guys needed that's why I said it from the get-go.	15:09
_MMA_	PRGUY85: Assumptions. :)	15:10
PRGUY85	MMA, Guess so ;)	15:11
kwwii	ok, so what should i work on today	15:14
kwwii	hrm	15:14
_MMA_	kwwii: Breathe folder icon!!!	15:15
_MMA_	:D	15:15
PRGUY85	haha	15:15
PRGUY85	it's good that the artwork team has discussed that they are not appointed to create the official artwork. All around the forums people thought so. Again, MMA assumptions hehe	15:15
_MMA_	DannyKing: Were you planning on getting together some kinda base filetype icon ideas?	15:16
DannyKing	As in general style, look & feel ideas?	15:16
_MMA_	DannyKing: Well, what you would like to see based on yesterdays chat.	15:17
_MMA_	It would need to be a strait on view. Top-down lighting.	15:17
_MMA_	This is because we want to use details from the Oxygen set.	15:17
DannyKing	Personally, I would like to see a realistic, highly detailed and beautiful icon theme that would rival OS X	15:17
_MMA_	Well. We'll see. :)	15:18
_MMA_	It's up to us.	15:18
thorwil	hi!	15:18
DannyKing	highly detailed and realistic being the key words I guess. But I'm very open to other opinions	15:18
DannyKing	hello	15:18
_MMA_	PRGUY85: As I have become disgusted with the forums, I have no clue what the current opinion of the art is. Good to hear they know we dont make default.	15:19
_MMA_	Hi thorwil.	15:19
_MMA_	DannyKing: I kinda like the fiber look to the images we saw yesterday.	15:21
thorwil	DannyKing: if you're talking about guidleines for Breathe, i think hyperrealism could be a key word. rich and close-to-photorealistic shading, but some optimizing for easy recognition. an even-better-than-real-life look	15:21
DannyKing	_MMA_: Yeah me too. I liked the fact there was actual texture in there	15:21
DannyKing	thorwil: yep, we are. I agree with you about hyperrealism	15:21
DannyKing	in fact I couldn't word my ideal look better myself	15:22
thorwil	just recently i saw an icon theme where all arrows where put within circles. that's ... not clever. we have to take care about good shapes	15:22
_MMA_	DannyKing: I actually think for text files we should have a piece of paper that looks like it was torn from a spiral notebook. little bits of frayed paper at the side and all.	15:22
DannyKing	_MMA_: That sounds great!	15:22
DannyKing	Of course at smaller sizes we'd have to have much less detail	15:23
_MMA_	Exactly.	15:23
thorwil	especially the folder icon should b tested with in-context mockups	15:23
_MMA_	But I want to render the 48px .PNGs from the 256 scailables.	15:23
thorwil	not a good idea, i think	15:24
_MMA_	thorwil: If you grab my latest revisions to breathe, it actually builds.	15:24
kwwii	lol, people reported that the alpha transparency in some apps is a bug	15:24
_MMA_	I saw.	15:25
thorwil	_MMA_: i just recently worked on an icon where i made a 256 px scalable first. even the 48 px version needed some reworking, a different approach	15:25
DannyKing	:\ Probably too used to using < IE6 ;)	15:25
DannyKing	I think if we were to make such highly detailed images, each and every size would need at least some re-touching	15:25
DannyKing	Lighting, shading at the very least	15:26
thorwil	DannyKing: we shouldn't obsess about the large sizes too much. just look around for what the user gets to see most of the time	15:26
_MMA_	thorwil: I'm honestly not hard set. We could make sure the 256 scaliables render fine at 48px. Also if you make a link from /breathe-icon-set/Breathe to /.icons/Breathe it works quite nice.	15:26
DannyKing	Because realism is all about subtle details and you can't always get away with such subtlety at smaller sizes	15:26
_MMA_	This is why 48px should be out target. It's what people will see most.	15:28
_MMA_	But, I could be talked out of it.	15:28
_MMA_	Draw at 256 with what ever detail and just refine for smaller sizes.	15:29
DannyKing	Agreed	15:29
thorwil	if 48 px is the target, one should start with it	15:29
DannyKing	I thought you were talking about drawing at 256 and scaling with no refining	15:29
_MMA_	DannyKing: I was. But maybe it would work fine to take the 256, scale it to 48, then add/remove needed detail.	15:30
DannyKing	I think that for a less detailed set it wouldn't (always) be necessary, but for 'hyper-realistic' icons, scaling without further refinement could result in too much detail just causing a mess.	15:32
DannyKing	Of course it adds a lot to the work load, but personally I feel that's worth it	15:32
_MMA_	Sure.	15:32
PRGUY85	When you guys say "hyper-realistic" do you mean icon will be almost a photo of a real-life folder for example? Because when I see the Oxygen or other great icon themes I don't really think hyper-realistic but highly stylized representations of reality.	15:33
DannyKing	thorwil: yes true about obsessing about large sizes. They are rarely seen	15:33
_MMA_	I do want 48 to be as close to 256 as makes sense though. I just fear massive differences between the 2.	15:33
DannyKing	PRGUY85: Sort of almost like a photo, yes... but not /too/ like one	15:34
thorwil	PRGUY85: maybe think of it as the difference between an actual photo of a model and the result after photoshoping ;)	15:34
DannyKing	_MMA_: yes I agre. They need to look like the same icon. Just perhaps the smaller icons would have a slightly heavier shadow or something	15:34
DannyKing	*agree	15:35
_MMA_	In the end, I do want everything above 48 to use scaleable.	15:35
PRGUY85	DannyKing: Got it. Well, I believe the Breathe set I have seen is truly a step in the right direction. Mixes the old and new quite well and doesn't look too much like Oxygen which is a fine line you all as designers should try to stay off.	15:35
_MMA_	Conn!! :)	15:35
_MMA_	(in m best Shatner voice)	15:35
_MMA_	*my	15:35
kwwii	_MMA_: studio sets a panel bg right? do you set the stretch thing in gconf?	15:36
_MMA_	kwwii: No. It simply does it.	15:36
psyke83	hrm, how can you imitate shatner with one word? How do you convey the strange pause between words??	15:36
_MMA_	kwwii: Well, its tiled actually.	15:37
thorwil	psyke83: pauses between silence and the word, of course	15:37
_MMA_	psyke83: Huh? You don't know the Star Trek movie where he yells "Kahn!!!!"? :)	15:38
psyke83	holy shit, that's the first time I realized my name is similar	15:38
_MMA_	:P	15:38
psyke83	wow, that really puts everything in perspective now, thanks	15:38
_MMA_	hehe	15:38
kwwii	_MMA_: right, I think I am going to put a bg in and set it to stretch...see how that works	15:38
psyke83	:P	15:38
_MMA_	kwwii: Hmm... Where's that setting? Might give me other ideas.	15:39
DannyKing	kwwii: That might look really bad with a huge monitor/huge resolution, though?	15:39
* _MMA_ suggests 2560x24px image. :D		15:40
psyke83	kwwii: is there a problem with the panel spacing in the Human theme? Look at the NetworkManager icon (when connected to a wired network) - it's blurry	15:40
_MMA_	kwwii: nm. I found the setting.	15:41
psyke83	when I go to the Panel Preferences, the size is 26pt, and if I expand it to say 40, then resize it back to 26, the NetworkManager icon un-blurs	15:41
_MMA_	kwwii: Just please make sure it's a setting in a Ubuntu package that won't be applied to the derivatives just because we share a package.	15:42
kwwii	_MMA_: I was hoping to flash the setting to firmware	15:43
kwwii	psyke83: I am not running intrepid...cannot see it here on hardy	15:43
_MMA_	hahaha. You think "RTFM" is bad, I just saw "Read the F'in README or officially admit to baby rape." Man. That's harsh. :)	15:46
thorwil	kwwii. _MMA_ not sure what to think of it: http://xs431.xs.to/xs431/08396/rsc_ibex_wood790.jpg	15:52
kwwii	the idea is sound but the colors aren't quite right	15:53
_MMA_	thorwil: I like it. Bit dark for a general audience though?	15:53
thorwil	the wood texture is rather dark. it's a wooden trivet	15:54
thorwil	looks all wrong if i try to brighten it	15:54
_MMA_	I see.	15:54
PRGUY85	I think it's too dark.	15:55
PRGUY85	and a bit busy for default background	15:56
_MMA_	PRGUY85: It's no more busy that the Heron.	15:56
* thorwil takes the word default and stomps on it		15:56
PRGUY85	sorry thorwil hehe.	15:56
PRGUY85	Heron was busy but it was a controlled busy, it was not busy everywhere.	15:57
_MMA_	kwwii: I actually think this: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/114190/2009%20Dust/bare.png is good with a gradient background. Or something equally simple.	15:57
PRGUY85	MMA, I'm for that as well. However, should it employ the brown/orange colors or try and use the more varied color pallete the original bare.png is using	15:59
DannyKing	I agree with PRGUY85 about being too busy, although I think the image is fantastic.	16:01
_MMA_	psyke83: We need to update the Studio theme to use Clearlooks tabs because the stripe feature was removed from Murrine.	16:02
psyke83	_MMA_: done, but do you want to keep the tab spacing? It started grating on my nerves	16:04
thorwil	kwwii, _MMA_ http://xs231.xs.to/xs231/08396/rsc_ibex_wood_2972.jpg	16:04
_MMA_	psyke83: I kinda liked it but if you feel strongly about it go ahead and ax it.	16:04
PRGUY85	thorwil, that's better I think	16:05
thorwil	i could add the texture and xcf to my LP repo, if anyone here would like to have a play with it	16:05
_MMA_	Kinda hits that same feeling as the Elephant skin wall doesn't it?	16:06
PRGUY85	MMA, it does	16:07
_MMA_	Not that it a bad thing. Just struck me that way.	16:07
thorwil	is that good ro bad? :)	16:07
_MMA_	*it's	16:07
PRGUY85	thorwil I think its a good thing	16:07
PRGUY85	and that latest one has the Ibex details more defined	16:08
_MMA_	psyke83: Just shoot off an email when done.	16:08
DannyKing	thorwil: that second version looks really good	16:09
thorwil	thanks :)	16:10
DannyKing	To me that /is/ ubuntu :)	16:10
DannyKing	Omg	16:10
DannyKing	it's 4pm?!	16:10
* DannyKing hasn't eaten yet! afk		16:10
_MMA_	Yep	16:10
thorwil	not here ^^	16:10
PRGUY85	11 AM here	16:11
_MMA_	DannyKing is in UK.	16:11
PRGUY85	nice and sunny in puerto rico	16:11
* DannyKing nods		16:11
DannyKing	PRGUY85: que bien, no tenemos mucho sol aqui :(	16:11
PRGUY85	DannyKing, buen espanol para un ingles	16:12
DannyKing	My mum is Spanish :)	16:12
PRGUY85	oh haha that figures	16:12
* _MMA_ heads to Chihuahua, Mexico in a week. (I'm in Raleigh, N.C.)		16:12
PRGUY85	MMA, on vacation?	16:12
_MMA_	Business. I'll be there foe a month then I come back to a new CAD job.	16:13
_MMA_	*for	16:13
DannyKing	Sounds like pretty good business!	16:13
PRGUY85	Mexico is pretty hot	16:15
_MMA_	DannyKing: Hopefully.	16:16
PRGUY85	are you guys using any of the latest community theme packages or have you continued to use human-murrine or any other?	16:17
* _MMA_ pretty much uses the Ubuntu Studio theme exclusively.		16:18
DannyKing	Me too	16:18
DannyKing	Except for some of my own app icons	16:18
_MMA_	Though I test others.	16:18
PRGUY85	Well, the thing I don't like about UStudio is that the last time I used it it was dark in all places. I think the dark/light mix Dust and New Wave employs is quite functional.	16:19
_MMA_	PRGUY85: It's about audience. The theme also is the way it is because pro A/V apps are often dark.	16:21
PRGUY85	MMA, hmm never thought about that but yea you are right.	16:21
DannyKing	Made this last night: http://flickr.com/photos/danny-king/2890594673/in/photostream/	16:22
thorwil	DannyKing: looks very un-computeristic :)	16:23
_MMA_	DannyKing: Fun. :) Though I think that hard stop the the shine on the logo should be faded. I ran into this recently as well.	16:23
_MMA_	*on the shine...	16:24
DannyKing	lol, yeah I just got my tablet out and started scribbling because I was frustrated at some web development I was doing. Don't take that as an idea of my skill level!	16:24
DannyKing	Oh the logo isn't mine, I just imported the crystal icon	16:24
PRGUY85	hey offtopic, DannyKing I just saw your desktop screenshot. Looks really sweet. What icon set are you using, specially on the Avant down there.	16:24
DannyKing	Thanks	16:25
_MMA_	I know. :) Actually that's also in the Inkscape source.	16:25
DannyKing	They're my own, take a look in my flikr photostream - they're all there	16:25
DannyKing	It's not really an icon set, I just wanted to make my dock pretty	16:26
PRGUY85	Great work	16:26
DannyKing	Thanks :)	16:26
_MMA_	DannyKing: Is there an official Inkscape font or text logo?	16:26
DannyKing	I'm not sure, but I keep seeing the same (or at least very similar) font being used with the logo.	16:27
DannyKing	No idea what it is though	16:27
_MMA_	k	16:28
thorwil	http://xs431.xs.to/xs431/08396/rsc_ibex_wood-block673.jpg	16:28
_MMA_	DannyKing: Part of Breathe will be making modern upstream app icons. But it should look like the original. Oxygen has done some of this but have replace the look of the icon. I feel it's important to retain upstream branding as mch as possible.	16:30
DannyKing	I agree	16:30
_MMA_	So, one will be able to grab the template from the wiki and submit an icon whenever.	16:31
_MMA_	Add as we go.	16:31
* _MMA_ clicks thorwil's link.		16:31
DannyKing	thorwil: some great (free) textures here if you're interested: http://www.cgtextures.com/textures.php?t=browse&q=14119	16:32
_MMA_	thorwil: I like this latest one best as it retains more of the abstract Ibex detail and feel like it will fit in better with the Ubuntu theme. (unless kwwii will be changing stuff soon) :)	16:32
DannyKing	I actually like it less than the second, although it's still good	16:33
PRGUY85	Im with DannyKin	16:34
_MMA_	DannyKing: No! My opinion is teh best!! :P	16:34
DannyKing	hehe	16:35
DannyKing	But I do see how it might fit in better with other themes	16:35
thorwil	too bad rsc isn't around	16:35
DannyKing	Oh my God	16:35
DannyKing	I forgot to eat /again/	16:35
* thorwil wonders how to proceed		16:35
DannyKing	I got sidetracked	16:36
* DannyKing is actually afk this time		16:36
* _MMA_ goes to eat as well.		16:37
_MMA_	psyke83: Did you change the tooltip colors as well?	16:47
psyke83	_MMA_, no... perhaps I didn't edit the latest version of the theme, but it's based on the last version I sent to you	16:48
_MMA_	Ok. Ill fix it here.	16:48
psyke83	_MMA_, you'll need to ensure the gedit fix is there as well	16:49
_MMA_	Oh. Maybe I should leave it to you then since I would have to hunt around.	16:50
thorwil	now if only i knew how to check if bzr us actually pushing data or already hanging like it often does with my image files :/	16:55
psyke83	_MMA_, scratch that, the gedit fix and tooltips are already changed in the revision you have. Perhaps you need to reset the color picker settings	16:56
_MMA_	psyke83: default tooltip here says #F5F5B5.	16:57
psyke83	_MMA_, yep, that's the colour you wanted, remember? The yellow background colour used in light themes	16:57
_MMA_	psyke83: Oh. For consistency with a light theme? Did you get the light theme worked out?	16:59
psyke83	_MMA_: I'm not sure what you mean. A while ago, you told me you wanted light tooltips, which required a fix for the Gedit notification bug, so I fixed it and set the tooltips to yellow background on black text. It had nothing to do with the UbuntuStudio-Light theme	17:00
_MMA_	Ok. Maybe I'm just a forgetful ass. In any event, it's fine.	17:01
_MMA_	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Icons updated.	17:03
_MMA_	All SVGs have a palette (color cues) and background colors to flip through. (for making sure they look right on top of particular colors)	17:03
_MMA_	The python script also builds the theme in breathe-icon-set/Breathe correctly.	17:03
DannyKing	Sounds great :)	17:04
_MMA_	Web2.0 shine also removed from KenV's folders to further show the direction we want to go. Though it still needs alot of work.	17:04
_MMA_	So I'll announce a call for ideas/submissions in a few mins.	17:06
DannyKing	"Remove Web2.0" - well put	17:06
_MMA_	:P	17:07
DannyKing	Is my understanding that the icons must have a top-down perspective? (i.e. flat rather than at an angle against an invisible wall?)	17:08
DannyKing	Just checking	17:08
thorwil	DannyKing: if you look at the icons other than the already replaced folder, you will see there are varying perspectives used	17:09
_MMA_	DannyKing: Do you feel the set should have the same perspective across the entire set? Or can it vary depending on the item.	17:10
_MMA_	ie: I want all the filetypes to be seen strait-on.	17:10
DannyKing	I think there should be a consistent perspective except in possible rare cases	17:10
_MMA_	But, folders could be another.	17:10
DannyKing	top down is fine, just wanted to clarify	17:10
_MMA_	As long as it fits.	17:11
_MMA_	Ok.	17:11
DannyKing	Who made that orange folder?	17:11
DannyKing	Is it the basis for the entire theme?	17:11
_MMA_	Ken Vermette.	17:11
_MMA_	It's not final. Needs revision.	17:11
_MMA_	kwwii is supposed to be doing that.	17:12
_MMA_	But the general feel will be very simular.	17:12
thorwil	DannyKing: the trash bin is much easier to get across in a slightly from above view. here top-down or fronatl do not work that well	17:12
DannyKing	I think it's a brilliant icon, one of the best folders I've seen, but it's not hyper-realistic, like we were talking about earlier. So either we'd need to revise the realism or the icon to make that compatible	17:12
DannyKing	thorwil: true	17:12
DannyKing	by revise the realism, I mean, the idea of using realism	17:13
thorwil	DannyKing: for drives, top-down might work, but the table-view works well for the harddisc	17:13
DannyKing	I prefer the table view	17:14
DannyKing	As for that paper idea (ripped from ring binder), I think that'd look fantastic on a table view	17:14
_MMA_	Note that these icons I feel will set the pace/tone/whatever for the rest of the set. So we're free to play here but should follow them after this.	17:15
thorwil	DannyKing: you could argue, that if hd and cd-drive are in table-view, so should a single cd	17:15
DannyKing	_MMA_: okay	17:15
DannyKing	thorwil: so what, folders & file types are top-down and devices & drives are table?	17:16
DannyKing	*table view	17:16
thorwil	DannyKing: that would be one possibility	17:16
_MMA_	DannyKing: I'm really trying to let other decide this stuff and not dictate everything. So it's great you're here atm. :)	17:17
_MMA_	*others	17:17
thorwil	even for drives, a non-projection view makes small icon sizes harder to draw and possibly to recognise	17:17
DannyKing	true	17:17
DannyKing	Is non-projecton view top-down view as I was calling it?	17:18
_MMA_	thorwil: What about a perspective change on smaller icons where needed? Ive seen that before.	17:18
thorwil	_MMA_: might be needed	17:18
DannyKing	Yes that could be a good way to do it	17:18
thorwil	DannyKing: with non-projection i mean perspectives that do not have vansihing points	17:18
DannyKing	Okay, gotcha	17:19
thorwil	speaking of which, the drive-optical is on the edge to bothering me because of the lack of a vanishing point downwards	17:19
thorwil	DannyKing: maybe we should try different perspectives for several icons. much work, but then we know what to run with and why	17:21
DannyKing	Good idea	17:21
DannyKing	I think breathe /will/ be much work - but if we can create a really realistic and beautiful icon set I think that'd be well worth it taking a little longer	17:21
DannyKing	There's no deadline is there? (We're not aiming for a particular release of Ubuntu for example?)	17:22
thorwil	DannyKing: do you have a digicam, white cardboard, a few lights?	17:22
DannyKing	I did, my girlfriend has lost my camera. But I can borrow one easily enough. As for the lights I do right now, hopefully at university too (in 10 days)	17:22
thorwil	DannyKing: no deadline. will take some time until we can even talk about milestones	17:23
DannyKing	Great	17:23
DannyKing	Are you suggesting we photograph things to base our icons on? (I think that's a very good idea)	17:23
thorwil	DannyKing: i'm asking becasue i'm lacking the equipment, but feel that some photos could help us	17:23
_MMA_	It would be nice to have some semblance of a set for Jaunty. But just as a community set.	17:23
_MMA_	No push for default.	17:24
DannyKing	I agree, although I'm not a good photographer. If we could get a talented photo guy that might really help	17:24
DannyKing	_MMA_: sounds like a good time frame	17:24
_MMA_	DannyKing: Get me a list of items.	17:24
DannyKing	That I'd like photographed?	17:24
_MMA_	Si	17:24
thorwil	_MMA_: varying folders, hard-drive, motherboard, cd	17:25
thorwil	notebook, paper, pile of papers	17:25
thorwil	all from varying angles	17:25
DannyKing	Pens, pencils, mobile phones	17:25
DannyKing	cameras	17:25
DannyKing	leads ?	17:25
DannyKing	Mice / Keyboards	17:26
DannyKing	Monitors	17:26
DannyKing	A good looking bin	17:26
DannyKing	Envelopes	17:26
DannyKing	Polaroid photograph ?	17:27
DannyKing	USB sticks, SD cards, etc	17:27
DannyKing	Speakers	17:27
DannyKing	(stop me if I get annoying here)	17:27
thorwil	maybe something for the mailing-list	17:27
DannyKing	Mask (privacy icon?)	17:27
DannyKing	As for the paper: scrunched up, ripped, close up (texture), folded, etc	17:28
DannyKing	Perhaps a musical instrument for sound type icons	17:29
thorwil	DannyKing: texture is easier to take from a scan	17:29
DannyKing	True	17:29
_MMA_	Yep.	17:29
DannyKing	Pictures of folders would be good (odd we missed that)	17:29
DannyKing	Books (new and old?)	17:30
_MMA_	Google image search might be good for most of these as well.	17:30
thorwil	DannyKing: we did not miss folders ;)	17:30
DannyKing	Yeah, and flickr	17:30
_MMA_	Maybe just a list of stuff we can't find?	17:30
DannyKing	oops sorry thorwil	17:30
thorwil	already tried search for folders. no good	17:30
DannyKing	search manilla folder	17:31
_MMA_	Well I think we're half-way there for folders anyway.	17:31
thorwil	problem is, you need good angles and proper lighting. large images	17:31
DannyKing	Yeah, that's the hard part	17:31
_MMA_	That one will be up to kwwii as he will try to incorporate what Mark would like to see.	17:31
thorwil	hmm?	17:32
_MMA_	thorwil: The bottom up glow on the folders, that's one of the things Mark likes.	17:32
_MMA_	kwwii was gonna revise further.	17:33
* thorwil feels you could as well ask a 9 year old boy		17:33
DannyKing	Uh oh, you've taken the lords name in vein ;)	17:34
_MMA_	Well like I said I'd like a shot at default though we're not gonna bow to every whim. I'm also not gonna shoot ourselves in the foot from the start.	17:34
DannyKing	As for the folder glow...	17:34
DannyKing	How about a light being shon on it instead, rather than an inner glow? (at least that's physically possible!)	17:34
DannyKing	shone *	17:35
thorwil	what's the official term for those photography tables used for object photography? with lights on swane-necks(??) and a smooth curve between the floor and wall	17:35
thorwil	ah, found the german term: http://www.powerrent.de/showshop/images/big/220.jpg	17:38
thorwil	http://fototisch24.de/PKXXL5.JPG	17:38
thorwil	diy: http://www.hobby-versand.ch/pic/aufntisch.jpg	17:39
thorwil	pretty much a requirement for the kind of shots i have in mind	17:39
_MMA_	Ahh...	17:40
DannyKing	Looks good. I've done similar things for my web design work, though I usually just put white paper on the floor and shine a strong light on it, then GIMP out any issues. Your way is better	17:40
_MMA_	Well, I didn't think we would get that involved but sure. :) Plan was to mix Oxygen/Human with what we had. Fix where needed.	17:41
* _MMA_ starts to compose email.		17:43
thorwil	_MMA_: lets just say that i think it would help quite a bit. also a shitload of work and asking for a budget	17:43
_MMA_	The latter being something we don't have. :(	17:43
thorwil	that was my point :)	17:44
DannyKing	I think a call for help for a photographer on the forums might produce someone with the kit already	17:44
DannyKing	Or aggressive trolling through flickr's creative commons search	17:44
DannyKing	(is CC compatible with Ubuntu's licence for artwork?)	17:45
_MMA_	Breathe is under CC-BY-SA3.0	17:46
_MMA_	(one of Oxygens licenses)	17:46
DannyKing	Okay good	17:46
_MMA_	And fits fine with Ubuntu.	17:46
_MMA_	I just had a PM with troy_s and told him I wouldn't talk about Breathe or icons unless he came in here. :P	17:47
* _MMA_ starts to compose announcement email.		17:47
DannyKing	Prototype two of my wooden icon: http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1592&p=8383#p8383	17:49
thorwil	hmm, the PDF letters are straight?	17:51
DannyKing	Yeah... the text should have been wider at the top than the bottom (that's the older version I put there for comparison)	17:51
DannyKing	Also the pdf icon should be stretched at the bottom	17:52
thorwil	DannyKing: in the first image of the thread, i can see that the adobe logo has depth - which can't work like that in wood	17:52
DannyKing	Yeah, that was the first prototype. I hadn't thought about it at the time. The letters also appeared raised when they should have been engraved	17:53
thorwil	DannyKing: the material impression is pretty good. maybe try a bit lighter	17:53
psyke83	kwwii: panel at default 24pt: http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/nm-applet_blurred.png	17:53
psyke83	kwwii: panel at 26pt: http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/nm-applet_unblurred.png	17:53
DannyKing	I'll try it out, thanks thorwil	17:53
kwwii	psyke83: my bet is that the icon shown does not exist at 22x22	17:54
kwwii	only 24x24	17:54
kwwii	erm, or not at 16	17:54
kwwii	or something like that	17:54
psyke83	kwwii: I tried setting gtk-icon-size to 24,24 and it doesn't help	17:54
kwwii	it looks like one is getting scaled	17:54
thorwil	DannyKing: i hope you know what kind of wood it should be exactly ;)	17:54
_MMA_	kwwii: Where's my folder!! :) I know you see me mentioning it. You're avoiding me. :P	17:54
psyke83	gtk-icon-sizes = "panel-menu=24,24"	17:55
kwwii	_MMA_: later tonight, I have band practice in a bit	17:55
DannyKing	thorwil: ermmm... :p	17:55
kwwii	psyke83: I would check in the source of nm-applet, I guess	17:56
kwwii	see what sizes are available, what files are used	17:56
kwwii	maybe it is a missing icon in the human-icon theme	17:56
psyke83	kwwii: ok, will do. If I use the tangerine icon set, it doesn't seem to scale the icon	17:56
DannyKing	The wood was taken from this image: http://flickr.com/photos/alexeya/134281183/ no idea what wood it is	17:56
psyke83	(though it's a diferent icon, of course)	17:56
psyke83	Tangerine seems only to have scalable icons	17:57
psyke83	nm, sorry, it does have scaled	17:57
DannyKing	thorwil: anyway, I've made the SVG so that the wood can easily be changed by simply inserting a different texture image	17:58
DannyKing	It could be made metal in two minutes :)	17:58
thorwil	DannyKing: from that texture, it seems to me that your result is too red	17:59
DannyKing	Yeah I added colour to the texture. It looked /too/ real otherwise	17:59
DannyKing	unphotoshopped as you said before	17:59
thorwil	640 x 480 and they call that large, pah! :)	17:59
DannyKing	Actually that's the photographers fault. Flickr just put the largest possible photo on their large setting.	18:00
* thorwil -> dinner		18:08
_MMA_	Ok. Email away. Not my best but should get the point across.	18:09
* DannyKing opens up gmail		18:13
DannyKing	_MMA_: I like the template svg. Nice colour palette	18:19
_MMA_	DannyKing: Pat thorwil on the back for that one.	18:19
DannyKing	Good job thorwil	18:20
_MMA_	There is also hidden layers to compare against the icons. Another thorwil idea.	18:21
_MMA_	Background colors. ie: "Does this icon look right on top of this color?".	18:21
DannyKing	Replied on the list	18:25
DannyKing	Ooh nice touch, didn't notice those	18:25
_MMA_	DannyKing: Preferably, the submissions should be saved in the same state they were downloaded in. Meaning what layers are there and hidden.	18:27
DannyKing	Okay	18:27
DannyKing	Might be an idea to add that to the instructional text	18:28
_MMA_	Yeah. Or note on the wiki. And good reply. It will/should keep discussion going.	18:29
DannyKing	Thanks	18:29
DannyKing	Oh I've just noticed that the folder icon has a reflection at the bottom	18:30
DannyKing	That's not a good idea I think, because some docks add their own reflection	18:30
DannyKing	Also makes it harder to ensure the icon looks good against all background colours	18:30
_MMA_	? Shouldn't have one.	18:31
DannyKing	Mmm true sorry, the version on the front page of the wiki does and I assumed it was the same	18:32
_MMA_	;)	18:33
_MMA_	/Icons will always be current	18:33
DannyKing	Ok	18:33
psyke83	kwwii: nm-applet is looking for the appropriate icons in the 22x22 folder, and can't find them, so grabs from the scalable files. Is it possible for us to fix this issue for 8.10?	18:39
thorwil	DannyKing: thanks!	18:41
DannyKing	:)	18:41
DannyKing	thorwil: check the list and add your thoughts to the Breathe post	18:41
_MMA_	thorwil: Made some revisions to the Breathe front page.	18:41
_MMA_	DannyKing: Do you use windows or linux?	18:43
DannyKing	Both	18:44
DannyKing	I run OS X, Linux and Vista :)	18:44
DannyKing	I need to test my websites on the three main OSs, you see	18:44
_MMA_	Well, when using Inkscape. Generally.	18:44
DannyKing	Normally Linux, but Windows a lot too. Windows is usually running on my laptop so it depends where I want to work	18:45
_MMA_	DannyKing: Ok. Reason that I ask is that as you become comfortable with what we do and I as well as others trust you, I can add you to the breathe-dev team and that will give you upload rights to the main branch. If you like. Otherwise I'll just be a proxy.	18:46
DannyKing	Eventually I'd like that very much, thanks :)	18:49
DannyKing	But I'm happy to run everything through you too	18:49
_MMA_	cool	18:50
DannyKing	Ooh this is nice: http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/5184/ibexvz6.png	18:50
DannyKing	Ryan from the list did it	18:51
_MMA_	I'm not keen on the background but I like the etch/carved look on the Ibex.	18:51
_MMA_	kwwii: You think if Breathe had it's own ML other non-ubuntu folk would be more apt to join? Seeings how the main list is kinda high-traffic and often off topic.	18:52
_MMA_	Might be off-putting for some. Notably the Oxygen folk you said might be keen to working together?	18:54
DannyKing	It might lessen the exposure for people to discover it	18:55
_MMA_	DannyKing: If you focused on the base filetype icon, it would actually let me work on derivative icons fairly quickly.	18:55
DannyKing	But I can see why it might be a good idea	18:55
_MMA_	DannyKing: True. Im just throwing that idea out there.	18:55
DannyKing	_MMA_: Yeah, I'd like to. I just need to finish up a website contract. I'm in the final stages... should be a few days	18:56
_MMA_	There's alot of chat besides Breathe people might not care about.	18:56
_MMA_	DannyKing: Ok. Cool. I'll keep that in mind. I'll poke you in a couple of days about it. :)	18:57
DannyKing	Sure thing	18:57
_MMA_	DannyKing: I guess take a stab at the notebook paper one as well.	18:57
_MMA_	Ok. Im gonna play with the fam for a bit. Leave a message. :)	18:58
ilembitov	Hi, all. Can anyone point me to screenshots to see how will 8.10 look like?	19:37
emma	hi guys	19:38
emma	anyone active here?	19:39
emma	I just got some new updates in intrepid.	19:39
emma	Wondering if the themes in this screenshot are going to be the new default in intrepid -- http://giving4paul.com	19:40
ilembitov	emma: I've seen those many times before, and I don't believe they will be default. They are just way too retarded, sorry if I offend anyone	19:49
emma	No I'm not offended. I just got these in the latest updates.	19:50
emma	I am not making a jugement or complaining, I thought thought perhaps this would be the channel that knows how the intrepid will look :)	19:50
DannyKing	I think the mailing list might get a better response emma	19:51
emma	I sort of hope that there is a more snazzy wallpaper than that, and perhaps there is a different theme. I like the dark option but this is kind of intense if it's the default.	19:51
DannyKing	I don't think anything has been decided (but I've only just started hanging out here)	19:51
emma	The heron default wallpaper was so snazzy. I hope that Intrepid can have a default wallpaper that's upbeat like that.	19:52
DannyKing	I've seen some pretty good ones so far	19:52
DannyKing	https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-September/008014.html	19:53
emma	That's very brown isn't it :)	19:54
DannyKing	That's one of many unofficial wallpapers of that theme	19:54
DannyKing	there are several other links on the list if you look. I don't think most people here get a say as to what's default in releases	19:55
thorwil	noone here has a say in that, except kwwii	19:56
thorwil	with the last word remaining with mr. shuttleworth	19:56
emma	the art is more important than some people might realise.	19:56
emma	if the goal is to attract new users who are not already linux enthusiasts.	19:57
DannyKing	heh, well you're singing to the choir in this chan... ;)	19:57
emma	For someone who's already a linux enthusiast, it's just an amusement, because those peole will quickly and easily change anything how they like.	19:57
thorwil	ilembitov: regarding retarded, guess who is? i give you a tip. it's about joining a party of people and broadly insulting them all without knowing anything about what goes on	19:57
emma	but for the larger target audience of Ubuntu, a beautiful artwork can really be a selling point.	19:58
DannyKing	I agree	19:58
DannyKing	A few of us are working on an icon theme to try and address that	19:58
thorwil	emma: don't make me scream. who do you think you are sharing your wisdom with? color-blind coders?	19:58
emma	hehe :)	19:58
* DanaG just read a bunch of backlog....		20:08
DanaG	Oooh, that red ibex is cool -- and less messy than the full-color one.	20:09
DannyKing	Which?	20:10
DanaG	http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/red-ibex.jpg	20:12
DanaG	that one.	20:12
DannyKing	Yeah that is good. I like how there is a crack in the wood near its head	20:12
DanaG	But any others that use the same style for the ibex (as opposed to the full-color "splat" one) will hopefully be just as good.	20:13
thorwil	DanaG: problem is the license of the background isn't clear, so we can't use it	20:13
DanaG	Yeah, so it'd need a different background.	20:14
DanaG	The full-color 'splat' reminds me of some sort of negative connotations... but I'm not quite sure what.	20:14
dilomo	hi all I'm back for the weekend only	20:20
thorwil	hi dilomo. welcome back for the weekend, then :)	20:20
dilomo	:)	20:21
dilomo	what's up around hert	20:21
dilomo	here*	20:21
thorwil	dilomo: well, Breathe has officially started now	20:22
dilomo	cool	20:22
thorwil	dilomo: a few people are playing with an ibex made by Rico. the fragmented one from a Dust mockup	20:22
DanaG	The full-color ibex reminds me of graffiti or violent things, but the silhouette one reminds me of flower petals floating off a tree, or something.	20:22
dilomo	aha so	20:22
dilomo	trowil: is this going to be the default	20:23
dilomo	wallpaper?	20:23
thorwil	dilomo: i guess not, but how would i know?	20:23
dilomo	It is good for sure	20:23
* DannyKing agrees		20:24
DanaG	There's just the license issue.	20:24
dilomo	what issue?	20:25
DanaG	"(12:13:36 PM) thorwil: DanaG: problem is the license of the background isn't clear, so we can't use it"	20:25
thorwil	dilomo: strictly refering to the bg in http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5246/redibexcb7.jpg	20:25
thorwil	dilomo: i made http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Et-w-/ubuntu-artwork/thorwils_backgrounds/annotate/32?file_id=rsc_ibex_trivet.jpg-20080927154856-l2xo5c38l0j5uun8-4	20:26
thorwil	and http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Et-w-/ubuntu-artwork/thorwils_backgrounds/annotate/32?file_id=rsc_ibex_woodblock.j-20080927154856-l2xo5c38l0j5uun8-6	20:26
thorwil	dilomo: and a Ryan on the list: http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/3098/ibex1920x1440nc9.jpg	20:26
* thorwil wished LP would use shoter links somehow		20:27
DannyKing	You could use tinyurl.com	20:27
dilomo	good job	20:27
thorwil	DannyKing: here yes. on the list not for archival reasons	20:27
thorwil	ty	20:27
dilomo	I like all of them. Only the first one is too reddish	20:28
dilomo	so is the ibex pattern separate?	20:28
thorwil	yes	20:28
dilomo	can I have it to try smth out?	20:28
thorwil	http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/114190/2009 Dust/bare.png	20:29
DanaG	gotta' love URLs with spaces...	20:29
thorwil	dilomo: Rico offered it to all of us	20:29
dilomo	thank you and him ;)	20:29
DanaG	Block is too light, trivet is nice but a bit scratched up.... perhaps a stylistic choice?	20:30
DanaG	That bare one is the full-color one; how do you get the silouhette one from it?	20:31
thorwil	DanaG: to some degree. the wood is as the wood is ;)	20:31
DanaG	Yeah, I meant the choice of what wood to photograph.	20:32
thorwil	DanaG: layer modes in GIMP, gardation curves, transparency ...	20:32
DanaG	Aah.	20:32
thorwil	DanaG: to scan in my case. really not much choice here, but i'm quite happy with both versions	20:33
thorwil	ah, rsc- you have been the topic here :)	20:37
rsc-	yeah?	20:38
rsc-	any juicy details I missed? :)	20:38
thorwil	rsc-: seems everyone enjoys your fragmented ibex	20:39
thorwil	rsc-: i hope you're ok with http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~t-w-/ubuntu-artwork/thorwils_backgrounds/files/32?file_id=ibex_rico_sta_cruz-20080927154856-l2xo5c38l0j5uun8-1	20:39
rsc-_	thorwil, i just put it out there for everyone to have a whack at. everyone's free to do their own take of it :)	20:43
rsc-_	i'm not a big fan of the inset effect though	20:43
DanaG	I do like the original red ibex best; it just needs a correct-license background.	20:44
rsc-_	sorry dana.	20:44
DanaG	That could be a task for the mailing list: find nice wood textures to use.	20:44
rsc-_	i lifted that background off starbucks.com	20:44
rsc-_	i'm afraid i can't find a suitable free replacement for it	20:44
DanaG	The others have changed more than the background.	20:44
DanaG	Wood texture scavenger hunt.	20:44
dilomo	we can make new one	20:45
dilomo	and I think even better bg	20:45
dilomo	tomorrow I'm going to shoot some bg	20:45
dilomo	and make them available to you all	20:45
rsc-_	i suggest keep the texture simple	20:46
thorwil	cool. i really enjoy working with high-res textures	20:46
rsc-_	the overbearing, very-detailed wood textures don't quite work too well.	20:46
rsc-_	anyone remember Mayang?	20:46
rsc-_	that site with lots of hires textures?	20:46
rsc-_	man i miss that site. :(	20:46
rsc-_	http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/3504/screenshot1pngwj2.jpg	20:46
rsc-_	^-- the composition with a gradient at the back	20:47
rsc-_	quick-and-easy winner, yes?	20:47
rsc-_	:p	20:47
thorwil	no :)	20:47
rsc-_	haha.	20:47
rsc-_	what about using the elephant texture?	20:47
rsc-_	...that ubuntu ships with.	20:47
rsc-_	.. /usr/share/backgrounds/simple-ubuntu.png	20:48
thorwil	rsc-_: at least do an oval one, center in looking direction of the ibex. overlayed with slight left to right color change :)	20:48
rsc-_	oval?	20:48
rsc-_	a distorted radial gradient you mean?	20:48
thorwil	yes	20:48
thorwil	radial might do it, actually	20:49
DanaG	http://h50146.www5.hp.com/products/portables/personal/zen_wallpaper/ -- hmm, HP has some cool things.	20:50
rsc-_	not feeling it :/	20:50
DanaG	Yeah, I do still prefer my own wallpapers. Sure beats the defaults in Windows, though.	20:52
DanaG	mebae_01 is kind of a nice color, but doesn't look like real woodgrain.	20:52
dilomo	so what kind of wood are we talking about?	20:53
dilomo	a scattered one or smooth one	20:53
thorwil	dilomo: wouldn't hurt to have a whole set	20:53
dilomo	:) ok	20:54
DannyKing	I like this wood: http://willwill100.deviantart.com/art/Interpid-Ibex-Mockup-Part-2-93584910	20:54
dilomo	because I'm going to a village of mine and there is a lot of different textures wood old paint ...	20:54
dilomo	DannyKing: this is old and as far as I know it is under copyright	20:55
DannyKing	Ah	20:57
thorwil	Nece228: don't ever dare to PM me again	20:57
DannyKing	?	20:58
Nece228	thorwil: its a private talk	20:58
thorwil	<Nece228> im angry that you are calling me troll just because i asked question two times	20:58
thorwil	<Nece228> in fact in forum you didnt show me respect	20:58
thorwil	<Nece228> and saying that im harmful makes me feel even worse	20:58
thorwil	<Nece228> makes me feel even worse about you	20:58
Nece228	thorwil: im not gonna say this to public	20:58
thorwil	_MMA_: ^	20:58
Nece228	thorwil: and you acted like a kid	20:58
rsc-_	Nece228, if he doesn't want to be talked to in private, either you talk to him in public or not at all.	20:59
Nece228	rsc- but he should not paste to public what ive said	20:59
thorwil	Nece228: either stand for it or don't say it	21:00
rsc-_	"this is a shame. i have been following the art mailing list for a while and it's really disappointing the amount of compromises that are being made each day (dust theme for example)" <-- from the forums. heh :)	21:00
_MMA_	Nece228: It's very common for people to not want to talk in private. It helps to avoid issues of "but he said this".	21:00
Nece228	_MMA_ but he should respect me like a human	21:01
_MMA_	Nece228: So you either respect the request, talk publicly, or say nothing.	21:01
* DanaG goes off to reboot to new kernel...		21:01
thorwil	good night for the good people here! :)	21:01
Nece228	_MMA_ you needed to say that before	21:01
DanaG	Sat Sep 27 13:02:05 PDT 2008	21:02
DanaG	yay, /exec	21:02
Nece228	thorwil: but the hell you calling me harmful	21:02
rsc-_	on another note.	21:02
rsc-_	does anyone know what "5 a day" is?	21:02
DanaG	servings of fruit?	21:03
DanaG	or bread?	21:03
_MMA_	rsc-_: It's bug triaging.	21:03
DanaG	5 a day keeps the doctor away?	21:03
DanaG	Oh,	21:03
DanaG	.	21:03
Nece228	after all i think its the worst ubuntu channel	21:03
Nece228	bye]	21:03
rsc-_	http://willwill100.deviantart.com/art/Ibex-Wallpaper-94885227	21:03
rsc-_	probably copyrighted.	21:04
* _MMA_ looks.		21:04
rsc-_	i even doubt he made that wallpaper. it looks like another wallpaper i've seen before, but recolored	21:04
_MMA_	Exactly.	21:04
BHSPitLappy	because it is	21:05
rsc-_	how unfortunate :/	21:05
_MMA_	rsc-_: There's so many variants of it. There is links to the author but its doubtful.	21:06
_MMA_	s/is/are	21:06
rsc-_	mm-hmm	21:06
BHSPitLappy	who keeps their shopping list as a pdf	21:06
BHSPitLappy	I mean, seriously	21:07
_MMA_	rsc-_: Note. This is real quick work but I had a quick go at one. http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/floor_gray.png	21:07
rsc-_	BHSPitLappy, who?	21:08
BHSPitLappy	rsc-_, look at that mockup again	21:08
rsc-_	_MMA_: i'm sure it can work with some tweaking	21:08
BHSPitLappy	repaste: http://willwill100.deviantart.com/art/Interpid-Ibex-Mockup-Part-2-93584910	21:08
_MMA_	rsc-_: Yeah. It needs its tone evened out. Might be better to start with a different sample.	21:09
rsc-_	ugh jesus	21:09
rsc-_	i dont understand the ruckus around that mockup	21:09
rsc-_	i mean, okay, cool... gnome-do + avant	21:09
BHSPitLappy	it's appley	21:09
BHSPitLappy	people have their applegasms and clamor for it	21:09
rsc-_	but everything else are just applets, an impossible gnome menu, and an uninspired gtk theme	21:10
rsc-_	i think i lost some respect for the community after all the "omg drool" feedback on that	21:10
_MMA_	haha. "applegasms" My desktop atm. http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/Screenshot.png "Appley" sure but fits my workflow.	21:14
_MMA_	Not that far from default Studio setup.	21:14
_MMA_	AWN is the biggest thing.	21:14
dilomo	nice bg	21:14
dilomo	did you do it yourself	21:14
rsc-_	_MMA_, any reason for the preference for hinted fonts?	21:19
rsc-_	just curious.	21:19
rsc-_	also: http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5897/testfd1.jpg	21:19
rsc-_	also: nice inkscape icon.	21:20
_MMA_	rsc-_: I think I use full hinting but I cant really speak with any credulity as to what things should be. Just looks fine to me. :)	21:31
_MMA_	dilomo: It's a work of an artists I'm working with for Studio.	21:32
dilomo	it's very good	21:32
dilomo	congrats	21:33
dilomo	have a good night everybody (or at least me :) )	21:36
PRGUY85	where do you suggest the current community themes head to after they were included in the community-theme package?	21:45
_MMA_	Cimi kwwii: Looks like a new bug as a direct result of my current Murrine pet peeve. Bug 275271 (removal of stripes on tabs)	22:07
ubottu	Launchpad bug 275271 in human-theme "NewHuman: Lack of usability - active tab should have some extra visual clue" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275271	22:07
_MMA_	rsc-_: Is that new link using my wood image?	22:11
psyke83	kwwii: still here? The icons that nm-applet rely on are only available in 24x24 size (they're not even available as .svg files). This means that the 24x24 sizes are selected instead of the Tango fallback, making things ugly. Can we fix this? Are there other sources of the Human icons that aren't in the package?	22:41
kwwii	psyke83: hrm, nope...there are no other sources	23:15
kwwii	the only thing we could do is to redraw the icon at that size	23:15
psyke83	kwwii: if we delete the icon, then the tango fallback is used properly...	23:15
kwwii	psyke83: except we don't install tango by default	23:16
andreasn	psyke83: do you mean hicolor?	23:16
andreasn	what does it look like?	23:17
psyke83	kwwii, hrm, I thought we did... but in any case, the gnome fallback is also available and looks good	23:17
kwwii	psyke83: yeah, depending on where else that icon is used	23:18
psyke83	kwwii: I'm not sure if it's a bug, because nm-applet seems to ignore the 24x24 icons in favor of the 22x22, and scales the 24x24 to 22x22 (despite fallbacks from other icon themes being available)... that happens even when I use the gtk-icon-size parameter in the gtkrc	23:19
* _MMA_ votes for a redraw. Shouldn't be too hard.		23:19
psyke83	_MMA_, three or four icons will need redrawing, then	23:19
DannyKing	I don't suppose anyone knows a way around having to restart X after plugging in a wacom tablet to get it work properly	23:32
DannyKing	?	23:32
psyke83	DannyKing, wrong channel. Check #ubuntu for the answer. If you're using Hardy, hotplugging should work	23:33
DannyKing	Thanks	23:33
kwwii	_MMA_: I figured out one thing that was missed when making the template	23:34
kwwii	the plates need to start on a major grid line	23:34
DanaG	ooh, I like the new gdm theme.	23:42
psyke83	kwwii: will I file a bug for nm-applet for you?	23:48

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