[00:00] <Cimi> kwwii, they are working great, just tested
[00:02] <Cimi> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/175266/Schermata-1.png
[00:02] <Cimi> see the entry on the right
[00:06] <Cimi> on the left
[00:06] <Cimi> LOL
[00:15] <Cimi> _MMA_, seen? :)
[00:18] <_MMA_> I did.
[00:19] <_MMA_> Cimi: Sorry. I'm starting to get into the evening here. My family calls.
[00:19] <Cimi> _MMA_, ok ;)
[00:19] <Cimi> good evening
[00:34]  * kwwii comes out of hibernation
[00:55] <Cimi> kwwii, thanks for the mockups, they look amazing!
[01:05] <Cimi> _MMA_, killed the kids? :)
[01:05] <_MMA_> No.
[01:12] <rsc-> sup fellas :)
[01:17] <Cimi> _MMA_ è uscito ("Time to kill the kids.")
[01:20] <_MMA_> Cimi: Oh! haha. My away message. :P
[01:22] <kwwii> Cimi: they are coming, I am working on them right now
[01:27]  * Cimi changes pc
[02:08] <kwwii> Cimi: http://sinecera.de/murrine_mock.png
[02:08] <kwwii> not done though
[02:09] <kwwii> and when I look at it on this laptop I think it still needs a lot of work
[02:13] <kwwii> and with that, I am off to bed
[02:13] <Cimi> everything should be doable
[02:14] <Cimi> though I'm not in love with the progressbars with the vertical separators
[02:14] <Cimi> and optionmenu is deprecated ;)
[02:27] <rsc-> i never really understood why there's both a combo box and an option menu.
[02:29] <rsc-> Cimi, hello, gtk documentation. any clue on how I can make an exception for OpenOffice to make it use a different style for toolbars and menus? :)
[02:31] <rsc-> and horizontal padding for toolbar buttons?
[09:00] <thorwil> i wonder what some people are smoking. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/human-theme/+bug/272832/comments/7
[09:06] <DanaG> Hmm, the first time I've tried the Kin theme, now that it's packaged.... I kind of like it.  Makes me feel an urge to eat some fruit, actually.
[09:06] <DanaG> =þ
[09:55] <Zirodaeee> thorwil: its stupid rumors from the people at digg
[09:55] <Zirodaeee> thorwil: there was an idea going around about a deviantart contest and some people thought it was true
[09:56] <thorwil> Zirodaeee: yes. i just don't get how one can jump from hearing about an idea to writing it actually happened
[09:58] <Zirodaeee> thorwil: silly blogger trying to get thier 5 minutes of fame
[09:58] <Zirodaeee> writing absolute rubbish
[10:34] <thorwil> kwwii: interesting requirements for membership in fedora art group: http://mihmo.livejournal.com/62031.html
[10:39] <kwwii> thorwil: yeah, I thought that was a good idea
[10:39] <thorwil> kwwii: definitively
[12:05] <rsc-> :D
[12:07] <rsc-> http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/red-ibex.jpg
[12:08] <zniavre> rsc-:  really nice
[12:08] <rsc-> yes unfortunately the wood texture isn't in public domain
[12:09] <rsc-> so, shit.
[12:15] <thorwil> yesterday i scanned wood. not such a dark and straight one, though
[12:16] <rsc-> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/114190/2009%20Dust/bare.png
[12:16] <rsc-> alpha-blended PNG of the Ibex composition. knock yourself out :)
[12:18]  * thorwil is knocking his system out with 600dpi scans
[12:18] <rsc-> nice.
[12:18] <rsc-> i'm sure others would appreciate it if you have a few of those available to the public :)
[12:19] <thorwil> rsc-: maybe i will torture bzr/LP with them ^^
[12:19] <thorwil> rsc-: i'll try if your composition fits on one of them later on
[12:19] <rsc-> i can imagine that LP won't be the most ideal way to share hi-res textures :P
[12:20] <thorwil> rsc-: yes, but i want versioning and backup for my work, anyway
[12:20] <thorwil> rsc-: but now i have to use a cloudless sky for cycling! :D
[12:20] <thorwil> laters
[13:17] <_MMA_> rsc-_: Do you have you original Ibex, without the background available? I wanted to see what I could do background-wise.
[13:19] <rsc-_> _MMA_, of course
[13:19] <rsc-_> _MMA_, its in the mailing list
[13:19] <rsc-_> or are you referring to something else?
[13:20] <_MMA_> I never was it "without the background".
[13:20] <_MMA_> ie: *just* the Ibex.
[13:20] <_MMA_> SO I could try it as a overlay.
[13:21] <rsc-_> you mean the ibex picture?
[13:22] <rsc-_> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/114190/2009%20Dust/bare.png
[13:22] <rsc-_> here's the composition I made, without the background. It's an alpha-blended PNG so you can drop on top of any background you want
[13:22] <rsc-_> and here's the source:
[13:22] <rsc-_> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Capra_ibex_ibex_%E2%80%93_03.jpg
[13:23] <rsc-_> ..where I traced it from
[13:23] <_MMA_> Yeah. bare was what I was looking for. Thanx.
[13:23] <DannyKing> Looks fantastic rsc-_
[13:24] <rsc-_> thanks Danny
[13:26] <_MMA_> I really think this could be used as-is with a gradient put on the background.
[13:26] <rsc-_> hehe
[13:27] <rsc-_> perhaps
[13:27] <rsc-_> #3F3223 / #231717 works
[13:28] <rsc-_> vertical #201919 to #6B4646
[13:29] <_MMA_> I would maybe hide a little more of the legs/horns though.
[13:29] <rsc-_> ah, yeah.
[13:30] <rsc-_> didn't really get to polish this much, sorry
[13:30] <rsc-_> in fact those aren't supposed to show *at all*
[13:30] <_MMA_> Because they kinda contrast against the abstract parts that have a sharper look to them.
[13:30] <rsc-_> mustve been a layer i forgot to invisible-ize
[13:30] <_MMA_> Ahh...
[13:30] <rsc-_> lemme try to revise.
[13:30] <_MMA_> cool
[13:31] <rsc-_> I also don't like those 3 lines that look like a moustache. =P
[13:31] <_MMA_> :)
[13:33] <rsc-_> hmm.
[13:33] <rsc-_> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/114190/2009%20Dust/bare.png
[13:33] <rsc-_> refresh guys
[13:34]  * _MMA_ has to start using DropBox.
[13:35] <rsc-_> it seems okay at first, but it's still lacking a few key features.
[13:35] <_MMA_> rsc-_: I'll give it a min. Seems to be hanging.
[13:35] <rsc-_> for instance, it syncs all files across your computers. so if you use it as a backup tool, your other computer will also download the backups that it shouldn't, heh :)
[13:36] <_MMA_> Ahh...
[13:36] <rsc-_> but its very promising. worth checking out
[13:37] <DannyKing> I actually just started using it too
[13:37] <DannyKing> I love it
[13:38] <_MMA_> Time to make new upload to Breathe BZR.
[13:38] <rsc-_> wheres the breathe bzr?
[13:38] <DannyKing> What's the progress, _MMA_ ?
[13:38] <_MMA_> DannyKing: I should be putting out that call for icon ideas today.
[13:39] <DannyKing> Great, I'll hang around and try to participate :)
[13:39] <_MMA_> I just updated the template and the 6 icons that are on that 1st page.
[13:39] <_MMA_> They needed some technical additions in order for a script to correctly build the set from the SVGs later.
[13:40] <rsc-_> bzr branch lp:breathe..?
[13:40] <DannyKing> Ah right
[13:40] <_MMA_> So now, all I do is drop in the new images we create.
[13:40] <DannyKing> That'd be jimmac's script? It's a brilliant idea
[13:40] <_MMA_> Si
[13:41] <_MMA_> https://code.launchpad.net/~breathe-dev/breathe-icon-set/trunk
[13:42] <_MMA_> So: bzr branch lp:breathe-icon-set
[13:42] <rsc-_> brilliant
[13:42] <rsc-_> how do i contribute?
[13:42] <_MMA_> rsc-_: I still need to upload my current changes.
[13:44] <_MMA_> rsc-_: Well uploading will be strictly controlled as to avoid hickups. But the plan is to focus on specific isons at a time. Though, anyone is free to grab a SVG and work on others.
[13:44] <_MMA_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Icons
[13:45] <_MMA_> The child pages will continue to get populated with the base Oxygen set.
[13:45] <rsc-_> sweet,i just did a bzr branch. can i use the icon theme now?
[13:45] <_MMA_> You will see a PNG preview and have the SVG source there.
[13:46] <_MMA_> Oh no. There's nothing but the start of things.
[13:46] <rsc-_> is this .py the script of jimmac?
[13:47] <_MMA_> Yes, but it has been through revisions with help from a Inkscape guy. (tedg)
[13:47] <_MMA_> Still needs some polis.
[13:47] <_MMA_> *polish
[13:47] <rsc-_> it takes the .svg's and rasterizes each into .png?
[13:47] <_MMA_> Si
[13:48] <_MMA_> But I still need to grab the big one for scalable somehow. It's been tricky. I might need a new feature in Inkscape to do it.
[13:48] <DannyKing> I think jimmac also released a great app that lets you view all your icons next to each other (including all sizes of the same icon)
[13:48] <rsc-_> hmm, the folders aren't showing
[13:48] <_MMA_> DannyKing: It's a webpage.
[13:48] <DannyKing> Oh cool, I'll take a look
[13:49] <_MMA_> rsc-_: Aren't showing how?
[13:49] <rsc-_> hehe, nevermind.
[13:49] <rsc-_> I was assuming the icon theme folder was populated.
[13:49] <_MMA_> no no no no . WAY too early for that.
[13:50] <_MMA_> rsc-_: ATM, there's nothing to do but create.
[13:51] <rsc-_> is there a script to take source_svg and render out to rendered?
[13:51]  * rsc-_ is considering on making a Makefile.
[13:51] <_MMA_> I'm pushing changes now. I have 1 more push in a min though.
[13:52] <rsc-_> okay
[13:52] <_MMA_> rsc-_: ¿Qué?
[13:53] <_MMA_> Damn. I meant "why". :P
[13:53] <_MMA_> Why the makefile?
[13:53] <rsc-_> haha, i dont know, is render_bitmap.py enough to generate the Breathe iconset folder?
[13:53] <_MMA_> The .py script will handle building the set.
[13:53] <rsc-_> oh okay
[13:54] <rsc-_> sorry, I wasn't sure :P I thoguht the .py only did individual files
[13:55] <_MMA_> No. It parses 'source_svg' and puts everything in 'Breathe' in the correct place. Or at least will. Mostly works now minus the "scaleable" icon.
[13:56] <rsc-_> doesn't quite work here, hehe
[13:57] <rsc-_> it expects "./svg" on my copy
[13:57] <rsc-_> (rev 10)
[13:58] <_MMA_> I just pushed rev12 with an updated script.
[13:58] <rsc-_> okay
[13:59] <rsc-_> o_O
[13:59] <rsc-_> its working!
[13:59] <_MMA_> This looks to work just fine. Though it throws errors. Ill have to talk to Ted.
[13:59] <_MMA_> :P
[14:00] <_MMA_> Well, duh. ;)
[14:01] <DannyKing> Anyone know how to easily widen /only/ the bottom of some text to create perspective in Inkscape (the text goes into the distance), similar to the star wars intro text. I'd rather not convert to path
[14:02] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Should be a path effect.
[14:02] <DannyKing> Hmm okay thanks, I'll take a look
[14:03] <_MMA_> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=perspective+inkscape&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=
[14:03] <_MMA_> I think those are the videos I saw. Though tedg said there was an easier way.
[14:05] <DannyKing> That appears to be perfect, thanks
[14:05] <_MMA_> \m
[14:05] <_MMA_> \m/
[14:15] <Cimi> _MMA_, why people on the mailing list keep using top-posting even if they are noticied?
[14:16] <_MMA_> Cimi: Because they use Gmail and hides the posting order. Look at the address next time 9/10 times it's a gmail user.
[14:16] <_MMA_> Even though, I use Gmail.
[14:17] <Cimi> _MMA_, me too, but I spend 2 seconds in respect of the non-gmail users
[14:18] <_MMA_> I know, I know. I post correctly not of of respect for non-gmail users. It's because of the web archive.
[14:18] <_MMA_> If you look at our ML online, many threads are a mess.
[14:23] <Cimi> _MMA_, let's ban gmail users from subscribing
[14:24] <_MMA_> The actual plan was to have links to the rules for new subscribers. With an emphasis on posting etiquette. Something kwwii still has to do.
[14:54] <DannyKing> Ugh, Inkscape gets /so/ slow
[14:54] <_MMA_> DannyKing: When?
[14:55] <_MMA_> I also assume you're using SVN?
[14:55] <DannyKing> When ever you have anything that starts to get complex (lots of nodes, lots of patterns, lots of blur especially)
[14:55] <DannyKing> Yeah, well I use both stable and svn
[14:56] <_MMA_> PRGUY85: thorwil is the one to talk to re:kyudo. But he's not here atm.
[14:57] <Cimi> DannyKing, xrender is slow because of the drivers
[14:57] <_MMA_> DannyKing: This is where multi-threading would be nice. That Severed Fifth wall is a bear this way.
[14:57] <PRGUY85> MMA, thanks a bunch.  One thing do you have to be a designer in order to help?
[14:58] <_MMA_> PRGUY85: Depends on what you want to do. Action will get you more respect than talk. So it just depends on how you get involved.
[14:59] <PRGUY85> MMA, the thing is I have read the guidelines but I don't really understand your next steps or goals.  It looks like all rhetoric (and important) but I don't get what you will do next.  And if I don't get that, then I don't know how I can help.
[15:00] <_MMA_> PRGUY85: They will be guidelines for whatever we as a community want to focus on in a cycle.
[15:01] <PRGUY85> MMA: So what's the next step right now for everyone working on kyudo
[15:01] <_MMA_> PRGUY85: But it always strikes me as odd when people offer to help but have no clue what they can offer.
[15:02] <PRGUY85> MMA, sorry then and thanks for your time.
[15:03] <_MMA_> PRGUY85: What can you offer? What do you do?
[15:05] <PRGUY85> MMA: As I said, I posted my limitations from the get-go.  I am no designer and have no advanced knowledge to create artwork.  I have aided Dilomo diligently in his New Wave theme and right now am in charge of that theme's development.  The aid I can offer is more of a tester and idea man.  However, I am sure you've all got plenty of those.
[15:08] <kwwii> the first stuff that thorwil has been working on is the mood boards
[15:09] <kwwii> that was posted to the mailing list
[15:09] <kwwii> I would read up on that and start there
[15:09] <_MMA_> PRGUY85: "I am no designer" is all you said today. Not really telling. I have no clue who you are otherwise. The rest of the items you just posted gives me a better idea.
[15:09] <PRGUY85> MMA, I just thought that was really all you guys needed that's why I said it from the get-go.
[15:10] <_MMA_> PRGUY85: Assumptions. :)
[15:11] <PRGUY85> MMA, Guess so ;)
[15:14] <kwwii> ok, so what should i work on today
[15:14] <kwwii> hrm
[15:15] <_MMA_> kwwii: Breathe folder icon!!!
[15:15] <_MMA_> :D
[15:15] <PRGUY85> haha
[15:15] <PRGUY85> it's good that the artwork team has discussed that they are not appointed to create the official artwork.  All around the forums people thought so.  Again, MMA assumptions hehe
[15:16] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Were you planning on getting together some kinda base filetype icon ideas?
[15:16] <DannyKing> As in general style, look & feel ideas?
[15:17] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Well, what you would like to see based on yesterdays chat.
[15:17] <_MMA_> It would need to be a strait on view. Top-down lighting.
[15:17] <_MMA_> This is because we want to use details from the Oxygen set.
[15:17] <DannyKing> Personally, I would like to see a realistic, highly detailed and beautiful icon theme that would rival OS X
[15:18] <_MMA_> Well. We'll see. :)
[15:18] <_MMA_> It's up to us.
[15:18] <thorwil> hi!
[15:18] <DannyKing> highly detailed and realistic being the key words I guess. But I'm very open to other opinions
[15:18] <DannyKing> hello
[15:19] <_MMA_> PRGUY85: As I have become disgusted with the forums, I have no clue what the current opinion of the art is. Good to hear they know we dont make default.
[15:19] <_MMA_> Hi thorwil.
[15:21] <_MMA_> DannyKing: I kinda like the fiber look to the images we saw yesterday.
[15:21] <thorwil> DannyKing: if you're talking about guidleines for Breathe, i think hyperrealism could be a key word. rich and close-to-photorealistic shading, but some optimizing for easy recognition. an even-better-than-real-life look
[15:21] <DannyKing> _MMA_: Yeah me too. I liked the fact there was actual texture in there
[15:21] <DannyKing> thorwil: yep, we are. I agree with you about hyperrealism
[15:22] <DannyKing> in fact I couldn't word my ideal look better myself
[15:22] <thorwil> just recently i saw an icon theme where all arrows where put within circles. that's ... not clever. we have to take care about good shapes
[15:22] <_MMA_> DannyKing: I actually think for text files we should have a piece of paper that looks like it was torn from a spiral notebook. little bits of frayed paper at the side and all.
[15:22] <DannyKing> _MMA_: That sounds great!
[15:23] <DannyKing> Of course at smaller sizes we'd have to have much less detail
[15:23] <_MMA_> Exactly.
[15:23] <thorwil> especially the folder icon should b tested with in-context mockups
[15:23] <_MMA_> But I want to render the 48px .PNGs from the 256 scailables.
[15:24] <thorwil> not a good idea, i think
[15:24] <_MMA_> thorwil: If you grab my latest revisions to breathe, it actually builds.
[15:24] <kwwii> lol, people reported that the alpha transparency in some apps is a bug
[15:25] <_MMA_> I saw.
[15:25] <thorwil> _MMA_: i just recently worked on an icon where i made a 256 px scalable first. even the 48 px version needed some reworking, a different approach
[15:25] <DannyKing> :\ Probably too used to using < IE6 ;)
[15:25] <DannyKing> I think if we were to make such highly detailed images, each and every size would need at least some re-touching
[15:26] <DannyKing> Lighting, shading at the very least
[15:26] <thorwil> DannyKing: we shouldn't obsess about the large sizes too much. just look around for what the user gets to see most of the time
[15:26] <_MMA_> thorwil: I'm honestly not hard set. We could make sure the 256 scaliables render fine at 48px. Also if you make a link from /breathe-icon-set/Breathe to /.icons/Breathe it works quite nice.
[15:26] <DannyKing> Because realism is all about subtle details and you can't always get away with such subtlety at smaller sizes
[15:28] <_MMA_> This is why 48px should be out target. It's what people will see most.
[15:28] <_MMA_> But, I could be talked out of it.
[15:29] <_MMA_> Draw at 256 with what ever detail and just refine for smaller sizes.
[15:29] <DannyKing> Agreed
[15:29] <thorwil> if 48 px is the target, one should start with it
[15:29] <DannyKing> I thought you were talking about drawing at 256 and scaling with no refining
[15:30] <_MMA_> DannyKing: I was. But maybe it would work fine to take the 256, scale it to 48, then add/remove needed detail.
[15:32] <DannyKing> I think that for a less detailed set it wouldn't (always) be necessary, but for 'hyper-realistic' icons, scaling without further refinement could result in too much detail just causing a mess.
[15:32] <DannyKing> Of course it adds a lot to the work load, but personally I feel that's worth it
[15:32] <_MMA_> Sure.
[15:33] <PRGUY85> When you guys say "hyper-realistic" do you mean icon will be almost a photo of a real-life folder for example?  Because when I see the Oxygen or other great icon themes I don't really think hyper-realistic but highly stylized representations of reality.
[15:33] <DannyKing> thorwil: yes true about obsessing about large sizes. They are rarely seen
[15:33] <_MMA_> I do want 48 to be as close to 256 as makes sense though. I just fear massive differences between the 2.
[15:34] <DannyKing> PRGUY85: Sort of almost like a photo, yes... but not /too/ like one
[15:34] <thorwil> PRGUY85: maybe think of it as the difference between an actual photo of a model and the result after photoshoping ;)
[15:34] <DannyKing> _MMA_: yes I agre. They need to look like the same icon. Just perhaps the smaller icons would have a slightly heavier shadow or something
[15:35] <DannyKing> *agree
[15:35] <_MMA_> In the end, I *do* want everything above 48 to use scaleable.
[15:35] <PRGUY85> DannyKing: Got it.  Well, I believe the Breathe set I have seen is truly a step in the right direction.  Mixes the old and new quite well and doesn't look too much like Oxygen which is a fine line you all as designers should try to stay off.
[15:35] <_MMA_> Conn!! :)
[15:35] <_MMA_> (in m best Shatner voice)
[15:35] <_MMA_> *my
[15:36] <kwwii> _MMA_: studio sets a panel bg right? do you set the stretch thing in gconf?
[15:36] <_MMA_> kwwii: No. It simply does it.
[15:36] <psyke83> hrm, how can you imitate shatner with one word? How do you convey the strange pause between words??
[15:37] <_MMA_> kwwii: Well, its tiled actually.
[15:37] <thorwil> psyke83: pauses between silence and the word, of course
[15:38] <_MMA_> psyke83: Huh? You don't know the Star Trek movie where he yells "Kahn!!!!"? :)
[15:38] <psyke83> holy shit, that's the first time I realized my name is similar
[15:38] <_MMA_> :P
[15:38] <psyke83> wow, that really puts everything in perspective now, thanks
[15:38] <_MMA_> hehe
[15:38] <kwwii> _MMA_: right, I think I am going to put a bg in and set it to stretch...see how that works
[15:38] <psyke83> :P
[15:39] <_MMA_> kwwii: Hmm... Where's that setting? Might give me other ideas.
[15:39] <DannyKing> kwwii: That might look really bad with a huge monitor/huge resolution, though?
[15:40]  * _MMA_ suggests 2560x24px image. :D
[15:40] <psyke83> kwwii: is there a problem with the panel spacing in the Human theme? Look at the NetworkManager icon (when connected to a wired network) - it's blurry
[15:41] <_MMA_> kwwii: nm. I found the setting.
[15:41] <psyke83> when I go to the Panel Preferences, the size is 26pt, and if I expand it to say 40, then resize it back to 26, the NetworkManager icon un-blurs
[15:42] <_MMA_> kwwii: Just please make sure it's a setting in a *Ubuntu* package that won't be applied to the derivatives just because we share a package.
[15:43] <kwwii> _MMA_: I was hoping to flash the setting to firmware
[15:43] <kwwii> psyke83: I am not running intrepid...cannot see it here on hardy
[15:46] <_MMA_> hahaha. You think "RTFM" is bad, I just saw "Read the F'in README or officially admit to baby rape." Man. That's harsh. :)
[15:52] <thorwil> kwwii. _MMA_ not sure what to think of it: http://xs431.xs.to/xs431/08396/rsc_ibex_wood790.jpg
[15:53] <kwwii> the idea is sound but the colors aren't quite right
[15:53] <_MMA_> thorwil: I like it. Bit dark for a general audience though?
[15:54] <thorwil> the wood texture is rather dark. it's a wooden trivet
[15:54] <thorwil> looks all wrong if i try to brighten it
[15:54] <_MMA_> I see.
[15:55] <PRGUY85> I think it's too dark.
[15:56] <PRGUY85> and a bit busy for default background
[15:56] <_MMA_> PRGUY85: It's no more busy that the Heron.
[15:56]  * thorwil takes the word default and stomps on it
[15:56] <PRGUY85> sorry thorwil hehe.
[15:57] <PRGUY85> Heron was busy but it was a controlled busy, it was not busy everywhere.
[15:57] <_MMA_> kwwii: I actually think this: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/114190/2009%20Dust/bare.png is good with a gradient background. Or something equally simple.
[15:59] <PRGUY85> MMA, I'm for that as well.  However, should it employ the brown/orange colors or try and use the more varied color pallete the original bare.png is using
[16:01] <DannyKing> I agree with PRGUY85 about being too busy, although I think the image is fantastic.
[16:02] <_MMA_> psyke83: We need to update the Studio theme to use Clearlooks tabs because the stripe feature was removed from Murrine.
[16:04] <psyke83> _MMA_: done, but do you want to keep the tab spacing? It started grating on my nerves
[16:04] <thorwil> kwwii, _MMA_ http://xs231.xs.to/xs231/08396/rsc_ibex_wood_2972.jpg
[16:04] <_MMA_> psyke83: I kinda liked it but if you feel strongly about it go ahead and ax it.
[16:05] <PRGUY85> thorwil, that's better I think
[16:05] <thorwil> i could add the texture and xcf to my LP repo, if anyone here would like to have a play with it
[16:06] <_MMA_> Kinda hits that same feeling as the Elephant skin wall doesn't it?
[16:07] <PRGUY85> MMA, it does
[16:07] <_MMA_> Not that it a bad thing. Just struck me that way.
[16:07] <thorwil> is that good ro bad? :)
[16:07] <_MMA_> *it's
[16:07] <PRGUY85> thorwil I think its a good thing
[16:08] <PRGUY85> and that latest one has the Ibex details more defined
[16:08] <_MMA_> psyke83: Just shoot off an email when done.
[16:09] <DannyKing> thorwil: that second version looks really good
[16:10] <thorwil> thanks :)
[16:10] <DannyKing> To me that /is/ ubuntu :)
[16:10] <DannyKing> Omg
[16:10] <DannyKing> it's 4pm?!
[16:10]  * DannyKing hasn't eaten yet! afk
[16:10] <_MMA_> Yep
[16:10] <thorwil> not here ^^
[16:11] <PRGUY85> 11 AM here
[16:11] <_MMA_> DannyKing is in UK.
[16:11] <PRGUY85> nice and sunny in puerto rico
[16:11]  * DannyKing nods
[16:11] <DannyKing> PRGUY85: que bien, no tenemos mucho sol aqui :(
[16:12] <PRGUY85> DannyKing, buen espanol para un ingles
[16:12] <DannyKing> My mum is Spanish :)
[16:12] <PRGUY85> oh haha that figures
[16:12]  * _MMA_ heads to Chihuahua, Mexico in a week. (I'm in Raleigh, N.C.)
[16:12] <PRGUY85> MMA, on vacation?
[16:13] <_MMA_> Business. I'll be there foe a month then I come back to a new CAD job.
[16:13] <_MMA_> *for
[16:13] <DannyKing> Sounds like pretty good business!
[16:15] <PRGUY85> Mexico is pretty hot
[16:16] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Hopefully.
[16:17] <PRGUY85> are you guys using any of the latest community theme packages or have you continued to use human-murrine or any other?
[16:18]  * _MMA_ pretty much uses the Ubuntu Studio theme exclusively.
[16:18] <DannyKing> Me too
[16:18] <DannyKing> Except for some of my own app icons
[16:18] <_MMA_> Though I test others.
[16:19] <PRGUY85> Well, the thing I don't like about UStudio is that the last time I used it it was dark in all places.  I think the dark/light mix Dust and New Wave employs is quite functional.
[16:21] <_MMA_> PRGUY85: It's about audience. The theme also is the way it is because pro A/V apps are often dark.
[16:21] <PRGUY85> MMA, hmm never thought about that but yea you are right.
[16:22] <DannyKing> Made this last night: http://flickr.com/photos/danny-king/2890594673/in/photostream/
[16:23] <thorwil> DannyKing: looks very un-computeristic :)
[16:23] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Fun. :) Though I think that hard stop the the shine on the logo should be faded. I ran into this recently as well.
[16:24] <_MMA_> *on the shine...
[16:24] <DannyKing> lol, yeah I just got my tablet out and started scribbling because I was frustrated at some web development I was doing. Don't take that as an idea of my skill level!
[16:24] <DannyKing> Oh the logo isn't mine, I just imported the crystal icon
[16:24] <PRGUY85> hey offtopic, DannyKing I just saw your desktop screenshot.  Looks really sweet.  What icon set are you using, specially on the Avant down there.
[16:25] <DannyKing> Thanks
[16:25] <_MMA_> I know. :) Actually that's also in the Inkscape source.
[16:25] <DannyKing> They're my own, take a look in my flikr photostream - they're all there
[16:26] <DannyKing> It's not really an icon set, I just wanted to make my dock pretty
[16:26] <PRGUY85> Great work
[16:26] <DannyKing> Thanks :)
[16:26] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Is there an official Inkscape font or text logo?
[16:27] <DannyKing> I'm not sure, but I keep seeing the same (or at least very similar) font being used with the logo.
[16:27] <DannyKing> No idea what it is though
[16:28] <_MMA_> k
[16:28] <thorwil> http://xs431.xs.to/xs431/08396/rsc_ibex_wood-block673.jpg
[16:30] <_MMA_> DannyKing: *Part* of Breathe will be making modern upstream app icons. *But* it should *look* like the original. Oxygen has done some of this but have replace the look of the icon. I feel it's important to retain upstream branding as mch as possible.
[16:30] <DannyKing> I agree
[16:31] <_MMA_> So, one will be able to grab the template from the wiki and submit an icon whenever.
[16:31] <_MMA_> Add as we go.
[16:31]  * _MMA_ clicks thorwil's link.
[16:32] <DannyKing> thorwil: some great (free) textures here if you're interested: http://www.cgtextures.com/textures.php?t=browse&q=14119
[16:32] <_MMA_> thorwil: I like this latest one best as it retains more of the abstract Ibex detail and feel like it will fit in better with the Ubuntu theme. (unless kwwii will be changing stuff soon) :)
[16:33] <DannyKing> I actually like it less than the second, although it's still good
[16:34] <PRGUY85> Im with DannyKin
[16:34] <_MMA_> DannyKing: No! My opinion is teh best!! :P
[16:35] <DannyKing> hehe
[16:35] <DannyKing> But I do see how it might fit in better with other themes
[16:35] <thorwil> too bad rsc isn't around
[16:35] <DannyKing> Oh my God
[16:35] <DannyKing> I forgot to eat /again/
[16:35]  * thorwil wonders how to proceed
[16:36] <DannyKing> I got sidetracked
[16:36]  * DannyKing is actually afk this time
[16:37]  * _MMA_ goes to eat as well.
[16:47] <_MMA_> psyke83: Did you change the tooltip colors as well?
[16:48] <psyke83> _MMA_, no... perhaps I didn't edit the latest version of the theme, but it's based on the last version I sent to you
[16:48] <_MMA_> Ok. Ill fix it here.
[16:49] <psyke83> _MMA_, you'll need to ensure the gedit fix is there as well
[16:50] <_MMA_> Oh. Maybe I should leave it to you then since I would have to hunt around.
[16:55] <thorwil> now if only i knew how to check if bzr us actually pushing data or already hanging like it often does with my image files :/
[16:56] <psyke83> _MMA_, scratch that, the gedit fix and tooltips are already changed in the revision you have. Perhaps you need to reset the color picker settings
[16:57] <_MMA_> psyke83: default tooltip here says #F5F5B5.
[16:57] <psyke83> _MMA_, yep, that's the colour you wanted, remember? The yellow background colour used in light themes
[16:59] <_MMA_> psyke83: Oh. For consistency with a light theme? Did you get the light theme worked out?
[17:00] <psyke83> _MMA_: I'm not sure what you mean. A while ago, you told me you wanted light tooltips, which required a fix for the Gedit notification bug, so I fixed it and set the tooltips to yellow background on black text. It had nothing to do with the UbuntuStudio-Light theme
[17:01] <_MMA_> Ok. Maybe I'm just a forgetful ass. In any event, it's fine.
[17:03] <_MMA_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Icons updated.
[17:03] <_MMA_> All SVGs have a palette (color cues) and background colors to flip through. (for making sure they look right on top of particular colors)
[17:03] <_MMA_> The python script also builds the theme in breathe-icon-set/Breathe correctly.
[17:04] <DannyKing> Sounds great :)
[17:04] <_MMA_> Web2.0 shine also removed from KenV's folders to further show the direction we want to go. Though it still needs alot of work.
[17:06] <_MMA_> So I'll announce a call for ideas/submissions in a few mins.
[17:06] <DannyKing> "Remove Web2.0" - well put
[17:07] <_MMA_> :P
[17:08] <DannyKing> Is my understanding that the icons must have a top-down perspective? (i.e. flat rather than at an angle against an invisible wall?)
[17:08] <DannyKing> Just checking
[17:09] <thorwil> DannyKing: if you look at the icons other than the already replaced folder, you will see there are varying perspectives used
[17:10] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Do you feel the set should have the same perspective across the entire set? Or can it vary depending on the item.
[17:10] <_MMA_> ie: I want all the filetypes to be seen strait-on.
[17:10] <DannyKing> I think there should be a consistent perspective except in possible rare cases
[17:10] <_MMA_> But, folders could be another.
[17:10] <DannyKing> top down is fine, just wanted to clarify
[17:11] <_MMA_> As long as it fits.
[17:11] <_MMA_> Ok.
[17:11] <DannyKing> Who made that orange folder?
[17:11] <DannyKing> Is it the basis for the entire theme?
[17:11] <_MMA_> Ken Vermette.
[17:11] <_MMA_> It's not final. Needs revision.
[17:12] <_MMA_> kwwii is supposed to be doing that.
[17:12] <_MMA_> But the general feel will be very simular.
[17:12] <thorwil> DannyKing: the trash bin is much easier to get across in a slightly from above view. here top-down or fronatl do not work that well
[17:12] <DannyKing> I think it's a brilliant icon, one of the best folders I've seen, but it's not hyper-realistic, like we were talking about earlier. So either we'd need to revise the realism or the icon to make that compatible
[17:12] <DannyKing> thorwil: true
[17:13] <DannyKing> by revise the realism, I mean, the idea of using realism
[17:13] <thorwil> DannyKing: for drives, top-down might work, but the table-view works well for the harddisc
[17:14] <DannyKing> I prefer the table view
[17:14] <DannyKing> As for that paper idea (ripped from ring binder), I think that'd look fantastic on a table view
[17:15] <_MMA_> Note that these icons I feel will set the pace/tone/whatever for the rest of the set. So we're free to play here but should follow them after this.
[17:15] <thorwil> DannyKing: you could argue, that if hd and cd-drive are in table-view, so should a single cd
[17:15] <DannyKing> _MMA_: okay
[17:16] <DannyKing> thorwil: so what, folders & file types are top-down and devices & drives are table?
[17:16] <DannyKing> *table view
[17:16] <thorwil> DannyKing: that would be one possibility
[17:17] <_MMA_> DannyKing: I'm really trying to let other decide this stuff and *not* dictate *everything*. So it's great you're here atm. :)
[17:17] <_MMA_> *others
[17:17] <thorwil> even for drives, a non-projection view makes small icon sizes harder to draw and possibly to recognise
[17:17] <DannyKing> true
[17:18] <DannyKing> Is non-projecton view top-down view as I was calling it?
[17:18] <_MMA_> thorwil: What about a perspective change on smaller icons where needed? Ive seen that before.
[17:18] <thorwil> _MMA_: might be needed
[17:18] <DannyKing> Yes that could be a good way to do it
[17:18] <thorwil> DannyKing: with non-projection i mean perspectives that do not have vansihing points
[17:19] <DannyKing> Okay, gotcha
[17:19] <thorwil> speaking of which, the drive-optical is on the edge to bothering me because of the lack of a vanishing point downwards
[17:21] <thorwil> DannyKing: maybe we should try different perspectives for several icons. much work, but then we know what to run with and why
[17:21] <DannyKing> Good idea
[17:21] <DannyKing> I think breathe /will/ be much work - but if we can create a really realistic and beautiful icon set I think that'd be well worth it taking a little longer
[17:22] <DannyKing> There's no deadline is there? (We're not aiming for a particular release of Ubuntu for example?)
[17:22] <thorwil> DannyKing: do you have a digicam, white cardboard, a few lights?
[17:22] <DannyKing> I did, my girlfriend has lost my camera. But I can borrow one easily enough. As for the lights I do right now, hopefully at university too (in 10 days)
[17:23] <thorwil> DannyKing: no deadline. will take some time until we can even talk about milestones
[17:23] <DannyKing> Great
[17:23] <DannyKing> Are you suggesting we photograph things to base our icons on? (I think that's a very good idea)
[17:23] <thorwil> DannyKing: i'm asking becasue i'm lacking the equipment, but feel that some photos could help us
[17:23] <_MMA_> It would be *nice* to have some semblance of a set for Jaunty. But just as a community set.
[17:24] <_MMA_> No push for default.
[17:24] <DannyKing> I agree, although I'm not a good photographer. If we could get a talented photo guy that might really help
[17:24] <DannyKing> _MMA_:  sounds like a good time frame
[17:24] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Get me a list of items.
[17:24] <DannyKing> That I'd like photographed?
[17:24] <_MMA_> Si
[17:25] <thorwil> _MMA_: varying folders, hard-drive, motherboard, cd
[17:25] <thorwil> notebook, paper, pile of papers
[17:25] <thorwil> all from varying angles
[17:25] <DannyKing> Pens, pencils, mobile phones
[17:25] <DannyKing> cameras
[17:25] <DannyKing> leads ?
[17:26] <DannyKing> Mice / Keyboards
[17:26] <DannyKing> Monitors
[17:26] <DannyKing> A good looking bin
[17:26] <DannyKing> Envelopes
[17:27] <DannyKing> Polaroid photograph ?
[17:27] <DannyKing> USB sticks, SD cards, etc
[17:27] <DannyKing> Speakers
[17:27] <DannyKing> (stop me if I get annoying here)
[17:27] <thorwil> maybe something for the mailing-list
[17:27] <DannyKing> Mask (privacy icon?)
[17:28] <DannyKing> As for the paper: scrunched up, ripped, close up (texture), folded, etc
[17:29] <DannyKing> Perhaps a musical instrument for sound type icons
[17:29] <thorwil> DannyKing: texture is easier to take from a scan
[17:29] <DannyKing> True
[17:29] <_MMA_> Yep.
[17:29] <DannyKing> Pictures of folders would be good (odd we missed that)
[17:30] <DannyKing> Books (new and old?)
[17:30] <_MMA_> Google image search might be good for most of these as well.
[17:30] <thorwil> DannyKing: we did not miss folders ;)
[17:30] <DannyKing> Yeah, and flickr
[17:30] <_MMA_> Maybe just a list of stuff we can't find?
[17:30] <DannyKing> oops sorry thorwil
[17:30] <thorwil> already tried search for folders. no good
[17:31] <DannyKing> search manilla folder
[17:31] <_MMA_> Well I think we're half-way there for folders anyway.
[17:31] <thorwil> problem is, you need good angles and proper lighting. large images
[17:31] <DannyKing> Yeah, that's the hard part
[17:31] <_MMA_> That one will be up to kwwii as he will try to incorporate what Mark would like to see.
[17:32] <thorwil> hmm?
[17:32] <_MMA_> thorwil: The bottom up glow on the folders, that's one of the things Mark likes.
[17:33] <_MMA_> kwwii was gonna revise further.
[17:33]  * thorwil feels you could as well ask a 9 year old boy
[17:34] <DannyKing> Uh oh, you've taken the lords name in vein ;)
[17:34] <_MMA_> Well like I said I'd like a shot at default though we're not gonna bow to every whim. I'm also not gonna shoot ourselves in the foot from the start.
[17:34] <DannyKing> As for the folder glow...
[17:34] <DannyKing> How about a light being shon on it instead, rather than an inner glow? (at least that's physically possible!)
[17:35] <DannyKing> shone *
[17:35] <thorwil> what's the official term for those photography tables used for object photography? with lights on swane-necks(??) and a smooth curve between the floor and wall
[17:38] <thorwil> ah, found the german term: http://www.powerrent.de/showshop/images/big/220.jpg
[17:38] <thorwil> http://fototisch24.de/PKXXL5.JPG
[17:39] <thorwil> diy: http://www.hobby-versand.ch/pic/aufntisch.jpg
[17:39] <thorwil> pretty much a requirement for the kind of shots i have in mind
[17:40] <_MMA_> Ahh...
[17:40] <DannyKing> Looks good. I've done similar things for my web design work, though I usually just put white paper on the floor and shine a strong light on it, then GIMP out any issues. Your way is better
[17:41] <_MMA_> Well, I didn't think we would get that involved but sure. :) Plan was to mix Oxygen/Human with what we had. Fix where needed.
[17:43]  * _MMA_ starts to compose email.
[17:43] <thorwil> _MMA_: lets just say that i think it would help quite a bit. also a shitload of work and asking for a budget
[17:43] <_MMA_> The latter being something we don't have. :(
[17:44] <thorwil> that was my point :)
[17:44] <DannyKing> I think a call for help for a photographer on the forums might produce someone with the kit already
[17:44] <DannyKing> Or aggressive trolling through flickr's creative commons search
[17:45] <DannyKing> (is CC compatible with Ubuntu's licence for artwork?)
[17:46] <_MMA_> Breathe is under CC-BY-SA3.0
[17:46] <_MMA_> (one of Oxygens licenses)
[17:46] <DannyKing> Okay good
[17:46] <_MMA_> And fits fine with Ubuntu.
[17:47] <_MMA_> I just had a PM with troy_s and told him I wouldn't talk about Breathe or icons unless he came in here. :P
[17:47]  * _MMA_ starts to compose announcement email.
[17:49] <DannyKing> Prototype two of my wooden icon: http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1592&p=8383#p8383
[17:51] <thorwil> hmm, the PDF letters are straight?
[17:51] <DannyKing> Yeah... the text should have been wider at the top than the bottom (that's the older version I put there for comparison)
[17:52] <DannyKing> Also the pdf icon should be stretched at the bottom
[17:52] <thorwil> DannyKing: in the first image of the thread, i can see that the adobe logo has depth - which can't work like that in wood
[17:53] <DannyKing> Yeah, that was the first prototype. I hadn't thought about it at the time. The letters also appeared raised when they should have been engraved
[17:53] <thorwil> DannyKing: the material impression is pretty good. maybe try a bit lighter
[17:53] <psyke83> kwwii: panel at default 24pt: http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/nm-applet_blurred.png
[17:53] <psyke83> kwwii: panel at 26pt: http://connogriofa.googlepages.com/nm-applet_unblurred.png
[17:53] <DannyKing> I'll try it out, thanks thorwil
[17:54] <kwwii> psyke83: my bet is that the icon shown does not exist at 22x22
[17:54] <kwwii> only 24x24
[17:54] <kwwii> erm, or not at 16
[17:54] <kwwii> or something like that
[17:54] <psyke83> kwwii: I tried setting gtk-icon-size to 24,24 and it doesn't help
[17:54] <kwwii> it looks like one is getting scaled
[17:54] <thorwil> DannyKing: i hope you know what kind of wood it should be exactly ;)
[17:54] <_MMA_> kwwii: Where's my folder!! :) I know you see me mentioning it. You're avoiding me. :P
[17:55] <psyke83> gtk-icon-sizes = "panel-menu=24,24"
[17:55] <kwwii> _MMA_: later tonight, I have band practice in a bit
[17:55] <DannyKing> thorwil: ermmm... :p
[17:56] <kwwii> psyke83: I would check in the source of nm-applet, I guess
[17:56] <kwwii> see what sizes are available, what files are used
[17:56] <kwwii> maybe it is a missing icon in the human-icon theme
[17:56] <psyke83> kwwii: ok, will do. If I use the tangerine icon set, it doesn't seem to scale the icon
[17:56] <DannyKing> The wood was taken from this image: http://flickr.com/photos/alexeya/134281183/   no idea what wood it is
[17:56] <psyke83> (though it's a diferent icon, of course)
[17:57] <psyke83> Tangerine seems only to have scalable icons
[17:57] <psyke83> nm, sorry, it does have scaled
[17:58] <DannyKing> thorwil: anyway, I've made the SVG so that the wood can easily be changed by simply inserting a different texture image
[17:58] <DannyKing> It could be made metal in two minutes :)
[17:59] <thorwil> DannyKing: from that texture, it seems to me that your result is too red
[17:59] <DannyKing> Yeah I added colour to the texture. It looked /too/ real otherwise
[17:59] <DannyKing> unphotoshopped as you said before
[17:59] <thorwil> 640 x 480 and they call that large, pah! :)
[18:00] <DannyKing> Actually that's the photographers fault. Flickr just put the largest possible photo on their large setting.
[18:08]  * thorwil -> dinner
[18:09] <_MMA_> Ok. Email away. Not my best but should get the point across.
[18:13]  * DannyKing opens up gmail
[18:19] <DannyKing> _MMA_: I like the template svg. Nice colour palette
[18:19] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Pat thorwil on the back for that one.
[18:20] <DannyKing> Good job thorwil
[18:21] <_MMA_> There is also hidden layers to compare against the icons. Another thorwil idea.
[18:21] <_MMA_> Background colors. ie: "Does this icon look right on top of this color?".
[18:25] <DannyKing> Replied on the list
[18:25] <DannyKing> Ooh nice touch, didn't notice those
[18:27] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Preferably, the submissions should be saved in the same state they were downloaded in. Meaning what layers are there and hidden.
[18:27] <DannyKing> Okay
[18:28] <DannyKing> Might be an idea to add that to the instructional text
[18:29] <_MMA_> Yeah. Or note on the wiki. And good reply. It will/should keep discussion going.
[18:29] <DannyKing> Thanks
[18:30] <DannyKing> Oh I've just noticed that the folder icon has a reflection at the bottom
[18:30] <DannyKing> That's not a good idea I think, because some docks add their own reflection
[18:30] <DannyKing> Also makes it harder to ensure the icon looks good against all background colours
[18:31] <_MMA_> ? Shouldn't have one.
[18:32] <DannyKing> Mmm true sorry, the version on the front page of the wiki does and I assumed it was the same
[18:33] <_MMA_> ;)
[18:33] <_MMA_>  /Icons will always be current
[18:33] <DannyKing> Ok
[18:39] <psyke83> kwwii: nm-applet is looking for the appropriate icons in the 22x22 folder, and can't find them, so grabs from the scalable files. Is it possible for us to fix this issue for 8.10?
[18:41] <thorwil> DannyKing: thanks!
[18:41] <DannyKing> :)
[18:41] <DannyKing> thorwil: check the list and add your thoughts to the Breathe post
[18:41] <_MMA_> thorwil: Made some revisions to the Breathe front page.
[18:43] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Do you use windows or linux?
[18:44] <DannyKing> Both
[18:44] <DannyKing> I run OS X, Linux and Vista :)
[18:44] <DannyKing> I need to test my websites on the three main OSs, you see
[18:44] <_MMA_> Well, when using Inkscape. Generally.
[18:45] <DannyKing> Normally Linux, but Windows a lot too. Windows is usually running on my laptop so it depends where I want to work
[18:46] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Ok. Reason that I ask is that as you become comfortable with what we do and I as well as others trust you, I can add you to the breathe-dev team and that will give you upload rights to the main branch. *If* you like. Otherwise I'll just be a proxy.
[18:49] <DannyKing> Eventually I'd like that very much, thanks :)
[18:49] <DannyKing> But I'm happy to run everything through you too
[18:50] <_MMA_> cool
[18:50] <DannyKing> Ooh this is nice: http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/5184/ibexvz6.png
[18:51] <DannyKing> Ryan from the list did it
[18:51] <_MMA_> I'm not keen on the background but I like the etch/carved look on the Ibex.
[18:52] <_MMA_> kwwii: You think if Breathe had it's own ML other non-ubuntu folk would be more apt to join? Seeings how the main list is kinda high-traffic and often off topic.
[18:54] <_MMA_> Might be off-putting for some. Notably the Oxygen folk you said might be keen to working together?
[18:55] <DannyKing> It might lessen the exposure for people to discover it
[18:55] <_MMA_> DannyKing: If you focused on the base filetype icon, it would actually let me work on derivative icons fairly quickly.
[18:55] <DannyKing> But I can see why it might be a good idea
[18:55] <_MMA_> DannyKing: True. Im just throwing that idea out there.
[18:56] <DannyKing> _MMA_: Yeah, I'd like to. I just need to finish up a website contract. I'm in the final stages... should be a few days
[18:56] <_MMA_> There's alot of chat besides Breathe people might not care about.
[18:57] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Ok. Cool. I'll keep that in mind. I'll poke you in a couple of days about it. :)
[18:57] <DannyKing> Sure thing
[18:57] <_MMA_> DannyKing: I guess take a stab at the notebook paper one as well.
[18:58] <_MMA_> Ok. Im gonna play with the fam for a bit. Leave a message. :)
[19:37] <ilembitov> Hi, all. Can anyone point me to screenshots to see how will 8.10 look like?
[19:38] <emma> hi guys
[19:39] <emma> anyone active here?
[19:39] <emma> I just got some new updates in intrepid.
[19:40] <emma> Wondering if the themes in this screenshot are going to be the new default in intrepid -- http://giving4paul.com
[19:49] <ilembitov> emma: I've seen those many times before, and I don't believe they will be default. They are just way too retarded, sorry if I offend anyone
[19:50] <emma> No I'm not offended. I just got these in the latest updates.
[19:50] <emma> I am not making a jugement or complaining, I thought thought perhaps this would be the channel that knows how the intrepid will look :)
[19:51] <DannyKing> I think the mailing list might get a better response emma
[19:51] <emma> I sort of hope that there is a more snazzy wallpaper than that, and perhaps there is a different theme. I like the dark option but this is kind of intense if it's the default.
[19:51] <DannyKing> I don't think anything has been decided (but I've only just started hanging out here)
[19:52] <emma> The heron default wallpaper was so snazzy. I hope that Intrepid can have a default wallpaper that's upbeat like that.
[19:52] <DannyKing> I've seen some pretty good ones so far
[19:53] <DannyKing> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2008-September/008014.html
[19:54] <emma> That's very brown isn't it :)
[19:54] <DannyKing> That's one of many unofficial wallpapers of that theme
[19:55] <DannyKing> there are several other links on the list if you look. I don't think most people here get a say as to what's default in releases
[19:56] <thorwil> noone here has a say in that, except kwwii
[19:56] <thorwil> with the last word remaining with mr. shuttleworth
[19:56] <emma> the art is more important than some people might realise.
[19:57] <emma> if the goal is to attract new users who are not already linux enthusiasts.
[19:57] <DannyKing> heh, well you're singing to the choir in this chan... ;)
[19:57] <emma> For someone who's already a linux enthusiast, it's just an amusement, because those peole will quickly and easily change anything how they like.
[19:57] <thorwil> ilembitov: regarding retarded, guess who is? i give you a tip. it's about joining a party of people and broadly insulting them all without knowing anything about what goes on
[19:58] <emma> but for the larger target audience of Ubuntu, a beautiful artwork can really be a selling point.
[19:58] <DannyKing> I agree
[19:58] <DannyKing> A few of us are working on an icon theme to try and address that
[19:58] <thorwil> emma: don't make me scream. who do you think you are sharing your wisdom with? color-blind coders?
[19:58] <emma> hehe :)
[20:08]  * DanaG just read a bunch of backlog....
[20:09] <DanaG> Oooh, that red ibex is cool -- and less messy than the full-color one.
[20:10] <DannyKing> Which?
[20:12] <DanaG> http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/red-ibex.jpg
[20:12] <DanaG> that one.
[20:12] <DannyKing> Yeah that is good. I like how there is a crack in the wood near its head
[20:13] <DanaG> But any others that use the same style for the ibex (as opposed to the full-color "splat" one) will hopefully be just as good.
[20:13] <thorwil> DanaG: problem is the license of the background isn't clear, so we can't use it
[20:14] <DanaG> Yeah, so it'd need a different background.
[20:14] <DanaG> The full-color 'splat' reminds me of some sort of negative connotations... but I'm not quite sure what.
[20:20] <dilomo> hi all I'm back for the weekend only
[20:20] <thorwil> hi dilomo. welcome back for the weekend, then :)
[20:21] <dilomo> :)
[20:21] <dilomo> what's up around hert
[20:21] <dilomo> here*
[20:22] <thorwil> dilomo: well, Breathe has officially started now
[20:22] <dilomo> cool
[20:22] <thorwil> dilomo: a few people are playing with an ibex made by Rico. the fragmented one from a Dust mockup
[20:22] <DanaG> The full-color ibex reminds me of graffiti or violent things, but the silhouette one reminds me of flower petals floating off a tree, or something.
[20:22] <dilomo> aha so
[20:23] <dilomo> trowil: is this going to be the default
[20:23] <dilomo> wallpaper?
[20:23] <thorwil> dilomo: i guess not, but how would i know?
[20:23] <dilomo> It is good for sure
[20:24]  * DannyKing agrees
[20:24] <DanaG> There's just the license issue.
[20:25] <dilomo> what issue?
[20:25] <DanaG> "(12:13:36 PM) thorwil: DanaG: problem is the license of the background isn't clear, so we can't use it"
[20:25] <thorwil> dilomo: strictly refering to the bg in http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5246/redibexcb7.jpg
[20:26] <thorwil> dilomo: i made http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Et-w-/ubuntu-artwork/thorwils_backgrounds/annotate/32?file_id=rsc_ibex_trivet.jpg-20080927154856-l2xo5c38l0j5uun8-4
[20:26] <thorwil> and http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Et-w-/ubuntu-artwork/thorwils_backgrounds/annotate/32?file_id=rsc_ibex_woodblock.j-20080927154856-l2xo5c38l0j5uun8-6
[20:26] <thorwil> dilomo: and a Ryan on the list: http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/3098/ibex1920x1440nc9.jpg
[20:27]  * thorwil wished LP would use shoter links somehow
[20:27] <DannyKing> You could use tinyurl.com
[20:27] <dilomo> good job
[20:27] <thorwil> DannyKing: here yes. on the list not for archival reasons
[20:27] <thorwil> ty
[20:28] <dilomo> I like all of them. Only the first one is too reddish
[20:28] <dilomo> so is the ibex pattern separate?
[20:28] <thorwil> yes
[20:28] <dilomo> can I have it to try smth out?
[20:29] <thorwil> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/114190/2009 Dust/bare.png
[20:29] <DanaG> gotta' love URLs with spaces...
[20:29] <thorwil> dilomo: Rico offered it to all of us
[20:29] <dilomo> thank you and him ;)
[20:30] <DanaG> Block is too light, trivet is nice but a bit scratched up.... perhaps a stylistic choice?
[20:31] <DanaG> That bare one is the full-color one; how do you get the silouhette one from it?
[20:31] <thorwil> DanaG: to some degree. the wood is as the wood is ;)
[20:32] <DanaG> Yeah, I meant the choice of what wood to photograph.
[20:32] <thorwil> DanaG: layer modes in GIMP, gardation curves, transparency ...
[20:32] <DanaG> Aah.
[20:33] <thorwil> DanaG: to scan in my case. really not much choice here, but i'm quite happy with both versions
[20:37] <thorwil> ah, rsc- you have been the topic here :)
[20:38] <rsc-> yeah?
[20:38] <rsc-> any juicy details I missed? :)
[20:39] <thorwil> rsc-: seems everyone enjoys your fragmented ibex
[20:39] <thorwil> rsc-: i hope you're ok with http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~t-w-/ubuntu-artwork/thorwils_backgrounds/files/32?file_id=ibex_rico_sta_cruz-20080927154856-l2xo5c38l0j5uun8-1
[20:43] <rsc-_> thorwil, i just put it out there for everyone to have a whack at. everyone's free to do their own take of it :)
[20:43] <rsc-_> i'm not a big fan of the inset effect though
[20:44] <DanaG> I do like the original red ibex best; it just needs a correct-license background.
[20:44] <rsc-_> sorry dana.
[20:44] <DanaG> That could be a task for the mailing list: find nice wood textures to use.
[20:44] <rsc-_> i lifted that background off starbucks.com
[20:44] <rsc-_> i'm afraid i can't find a suitable free replacement for it
[20:44] <DanaG> The others have changed more than the background.
[20:44] <DanaG> Wood texture scavenger hunt.
[20:45] <dilomo> we can make new one
[20:45] <dilomo> and I think even better bg
[20:45] <dilomo> tomorrow I'm going to shoot some bg
[20:45] <dilomo> and make them available to you all
[20:46] <rsc-_> i suggest keep the texture simple
[20:46] <thorwil> cool. i really enjoy working with high-res textures
[20:46] <rsc-_> the overbearing, very-detailed wood textures don't quite work too well.
[20:46] <rsc-_> anyone remember Mayang?
[20:46] <rsc-_> that site with lots of hires textures?
[20:46] <rsc-_> man i miss that site. :(
[20:46] <rsc-_> http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/3504/screenshot1pngwj2.jpg
[20:47] <rsc-_> ^-- the composition with a gradient at the back
[20:47] <rsc-_> quick-and-easy winner, yes?
[20:47] <rsc-_> :p
[20:47] <thorwil> no :)
[20:47] <rsc-_> haha.
[20:47] <rsc-_> what about using the elephant texture?
[20:47] <rsc-_> ...that ubuntu ships with.
[20:48] <rsc-_> .. /usr/share/backgrounds/simple-ubuntu.png
[20:48] <thorwil> rsc-_: at least do an oval one, center in looking direction of the ibex. overlayed with slight left to right color change :)
[20:48] <rsc-_> oval?
[20:48] <rsc-_> a distorted radial gradient you mean?
[20:48] <thorwil> yes
[20:49] <thorwil> radial might do it, actually
[20:50] <DanaG> http://h50146.www5.hp.com/products/portables/personal/zen_wallpaper/ -- hmm, HP has some cool things.
[20:50] <rsc-_> not feeling it :/
[20:52] <DanaG> Yeah, I do still prefer my own wallpapers.  Sure beats the defaults in Windows, though.
[20:52] <DanaG> mebae_01 is kind of a nice color, but doesn't look like real woodgrain.
[20:53] <dilomo> so what kind of wood are we talking about?
[20:53] <dilomo> a scattered one or smooth one
[20:53] <thorwil> dilomo: wouldn't hurt to have a whole set
[20:54] <dilomo> :) ok
[20:54] <DannyKing> I like this wood: http://willwill100.deviantart.com/art/Interpid-Ibex-Mockup-Part-2-93584910
[20:54] <dilomo> because I'm going to a village of mine and there is a lot of different textures wood old paint  ...
[20:55] <dilomo> DannyKing: this is old and as far as I know it is under copyright
[20:57] <DannyKing> Ah
[20:57] <thorwil> Nece228: don't ever dare to PM me again
[20:58] <DannyKing> ?
[20:58] <Nece228> thorwil: its a private talk
 im angry that you are calling me troll just because i asked question two times
 in fact in forum you didnt show me respect
 and saying that im harmful makes me feel even worse
 makes me feel even worse about you
[20:58] <Nece228> thorwil: im not gonna say this to public
[20:58] <thorwil> _MMA_: ^
[20:58] <Nece228> thorwil: and you acted like a kid
[20:59] <rsc-_> Nece228, if he doesn't want to be talked to in private, either you talk to him in public or not at all.
[20:59] <Nece228> rsc- but he should not paste to public what ive said
[21:00] <thorwil> Nece228: either stand for it or don't say it
[21:00] <rsc-_> "this is a shame. i have been following the art mailing list for a while and it's really disappointing the amount of compromises that are being made each day (dust theme for example)" <-- from the forums. heh :)
[21:00] <_MMA_> Nece228: It's very common for people to not want to talk in private. It helps to avoid issues of "but he said this".
[21:01] <Nece228> _MMA_ but he should respect me like a human
[21:01] <_MMA_> Nece228: So you either respect the request, talk publicly, or say nothing.
[21:01]  * DanaG goes off to reboot to new kernel...
[21:01] <thorwil> good night for the good people here! :)
[21:01] <Nece228> _MMA_ you needed to say that before
[21:02] <DanaG> Sat Sep 27 13:02:05 PDT 2008
[21:02] <DanaG> yay, /exec
[21:02] <Nece228> thorwil: but the hell you calling me harmful
[21:02] <rsc-_> on another note.
[21:02] <rsc-_> does anyone know what "5 a day" is?
[21:03] <DanaG> servings of fruit?
[21:03] <DanaG> or bread?
[21:03] <_MMA_> rsc-_: It's bug triaging.
[21:03] <DanaG> 5 a day keeps the doctor away?
[21:03] <DanaG> Oh,
[21:03] <DanaG> .
[21:03] <Nece228> after all i think its the worst ubuntu channel
[21:03] <Nece228> bye]
[21:03] <rsc-_> http://willwill100.deviantart.com/art/Ibex-Wallpaper-94885227
[21:04] <rsc-_> probably copyrighted.
[21:04]  * _MMA_ looks.
[21:04] <rsc-_> i even doubt he made that wallpaper. it looks like another wallpaper i've seen before, but recolored
[21:04] <_MMA_> Exactly.
[21:05] <BHSPitLappy> because it is
[21:05] <rsc-_> how unfortunate :/
[21:06] <_MMA_> rsc-_: There's *so* many variants of it. There is links to the author but its doubtful.
[21:06] <_MMA_> s/is/are
[21:06] <rsc-_> mm-hmm
[21:06] <BHSPitLappy> who keeps their shopping list as a pdf
[21:07] <BHSPitLappy> I mean, seriously
[21:07] <_MMA_> rsc-_: Note. This is *real* quick work but I had a quick go at one. http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/floor_gray.png
[21:08] <rsc-_> BHSPitLappy, who?
[21:08] <BHSPitLappy> rsc-_, look at that mockup again
[21:08] <rsc-_> _MMA_: i'm sure it can work with some tweaking
[21:08] <BHSPitLappy> repaste: http://willwill100.deviantart.com/art/Interpid-Ibex-Mockup-Part-2-93584910
[21:09] <_MMA_> rsc-_: Yeah. It needs its tone evened out. Might be better to start with a different sample.
[21:09] <rsc-_> ugh jesus
[21:09] <rsc-_> i dont understand the ruckus around that mockup
[21:09] <rsc-_> i mean, okay, cool... gnome-do + avant
[21:09] <BHSPitLappy> it's appley
[21:09] <BHSPitLappy> people have their applegasms and clamor for it
[21:10] <rsc-_> but everything else are just applets, an impossible gnome menu, and an uninspired gtk theme
[21:10] <rsc-_> i think i lost some respect for the community after all the "omg drool" feedback on that
[21:14] <_MMA_> haha. "applegasms" My desktop atm. http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/Screenshot.png "Appley" sure but fits my workflow.
[21:14] <_MMA_> Not that far from default Studio setup.
[21:14] <_MMA_> AWN is the biggest thing.
[21:14] <dilomo> nice bg
[21:14] <dilomo> did you do it yourself
[21:19] <rsc-_> _MMA_, any reason for the preference for hinted fonts?
[21:19] <rsc-_> just curious.
[21:19] <rsc-_> also: http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5897/testfd1.jpg
[21:20] <rsc-_> also: nice inkscape icon.
[21:31] <_MMA_> rsc-_: I think I use full hinting but I cant really speak with any credulity as to what things *should* be. Just looks fine to me. :)
[21:32] <_MMA_> dilomo: It's a work of an artists I'm working with for Studio.
[21:32] <dilomo> it's very good
[21:33] <dilomo> congrats
[21:36] <dilomo> have a good night everybody (or at least me :) )
[21:45] <PRGUY85> where do you suggest the current community themes head to after they were included in the community-theme package?
[22:07] <_MMA_> Cimi kwwii: Looks like a new bug as a direct result of my current Murrine pet peeve. Bug 275271 (removal of stripes on tabs)
[22:11] <_MMA_> rsc-_: Is that new link using my wood image?
[22:41] <psyke83> kwwii: still here? The icons that nm-applet rely on are only available in 24x24 size (they're not even available as .svg files). This means that the 24x24 sizes are selected instead of the Tango fallback, making things ugly. Can we fix this? Are there other sources of the Human icons that aren't in the package?
[23:15] <kwwii> psyke83: hrm, nope...there are no other sources
[23:15] <kwwii> the only thing we could do is to redraw the icon at that size
[23:15] <psyke83> kwwii: if we delete the icon, then the tango fallback is used properly...
[23:16] <kwwii> psyke83: except we don't install tango by default
[23:16] <andreasn> psyke83: do you mean hicolor?
[23:17] <andreasn> what does it look like?
[23:17] <psyke83> kwwii, hrm, I thought we did... but in any case, the gnome fallback is also available and looks good
[23:18] <kwwii> psyke83: yeah, depending on where else that icon is used
[23:19] <psyke83> kwwii: I'm not sure if it's a bug, because nm-applet seems to ignore the 24x24 icons in favor of the 22x22, and scales the 24x24 to 22x22 (despite fallbacks from other icon themes being available)... that happens even when I use the gtk-icon-size parameter in the gtkrc
[23:19]  * _MMA_ votes for a redraw. Shouldn't be too hard.
[23:19] <psyke83> _MMA_, three or four icons will need redrawing, then
[23:32] <DannyKing> I don't suppose anyone knows a way around having to restart X after plugging in a wacom tablet to get it work properly
[23:32] <DannyKing> ?
[23:33] <psyke83> DannyKing, wrong channel. Check #ubuntu for the answer. If you're using Hardy, hotplugging should work
[23:33] <DannyKing> Thanks
[23:34] <kwwii> _MMA_: I figured out one thing that was missed when making the template
[23:34] <kwwii> the plates need to start on a major grid line
[23:42] <DanaG> ooh, I like the new gdm theme.
[23:48] <psyke83> kwwii: will I file a bug for nm-applet for you?