[08:53] <persia> ogra: I think I found a hint as to why your image won't load in KVM: when booting it shows as both a DVD drive and a regular drive.  Is the image perhaps partitioned somehow?
[11:17] <crevette> hello
[11:17] <crevette> persia: hello
[11:18] <ogra> persia, Err http://archieve.ubuntu.com intrepid/main linux-image-2.6.27-4-generic 2.6.27-4.5
[11:18] <ogra>     404 Not Found [IP: 91.189.88.46.80]
[11:18] <ogra> "
[11:19] <ogra> i just got that from a user trying the workaround ... do you notice something ? 
[11:24] <ogra> hmm, no, its all correct, he must have fiddled with the sources.list himself to get that typo in
[12:46] <ogra> persia, my image isnt partitioned btw, i use the script build-mobile-img StevenK uses on cdimage
[12:46] <ogra> so i dont see wha mine wouldnt boot but his does
[12:47] <ogra> *why
[13:00] <ogra> hmm
[13:00] <ogra> might be that cdimage builds in a hardy envionemnt 
[13:00] <lool> Ah too bad amitk isn't around
[13:00] <lool> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.wireless.general/21379
[13:00]  * ogra tries running syslinux for his image in a hardy chroot
[13:01] <ogra> lool, did you try it ? 
[13:02] <lool> Nope, but at least it feel like we could use madwifi + new hal in linux-lpia rather than building a lrm
[13:02] <ogra> neh, would have been helpful if they had put a changelog in the tar.bz2
[13:18] <persia> crevette: Hi.  superm1 and I tested your 0.28 preparation in a variety of environments.  It works great, unless we use the 2.6.27 kernel.
[13:18] <persia> superm1 is working on packaging 1.5: if this tests cleanly, we may use that.
[13:19] <persia> lool: Would you mind taking a look at http://paste.ubuntu.com/51200/ ?  It is supposed "hildonisation" for the bluez-gnome preferences applet.  Personally, I think it's probably an improvement generally rather than only in hildon, but I'd like your opinion as someone more familiar with GTK+.
[13:20] <persia> ogra: If you're using the same script then I'm also confused.  Do you see any difference building under hardy?  Also, you probably want to grab the new version of the script, that fixes the no-kernel-is-being-installed issue.
[13:21] <persia> ogra: Additionally, the reason people are seeing that 404 error is that their apt-cache is out of date.  They need to run apt-get update.
[13:21] <StevenK> persia: Did you see the URL? http://archieve.ubuntu.com intrepid/main
[13:22] <ogra> well, since they are downloading and install manually i just put a direct url in a blog comment now
[13:22] <ogra> StevenK, must be a typo in the copy/paste though, the sources.list in the image and the preseed are both fine 
[13:22] <persia> Ooh.  I didn't see that.  Maybe a preseeding issue?
[13:22] <ogra> i checked that
[13:23] <persia> Ah.  RIght.  Let's call that a reporter typo then.
[13:23] <ogra> persia, and hardy doesnt help it seems
[13:23] <persia> ogra: Hrm.  I dunno.  The images I get from StevenK work everywhere.  Your image gives strange results in KVM, and won't boot on the D4.  It works fine on the SR.
[13:24] <ogra> yeah, i see the qemu issue here as well
[13:24] <ogra> but using the hardy syslinux definately doesnt change a thing
[13:24] <persia> ogra: Also, if you haven't seen already, I updated the -mobile preseeding bug with all the useful details, after some discussion in ubuntu-installer.  You probably need to fiddle ubuntu-mobile-default-settings though.
[13:25] <ogra> yeah, gdm-cdd.conf currentl relies on ubuntu as username and no password
[13:29] <persia> ogra: What else do you have customised?  d-i passwd/auto-login will sedify gdm.conf to do the right thing.
[13:30] <ogra> right
[13:31] <ogra> gdm-cdd.conf uses the theme i use in the desktop and the face browser 
[13:31] <persia> Ah.  I wonder if user-setup apply can handle gdm-cdd.conf.
[13:32] <persia> Anyway, you can't effectively force the username except in --automatic mode, which you don't really want, as there's no reason -mobile should br crippled like that.
[13:32] <ogra> i dont really like to force any kind of typing in gdm though
[13:32] <ogra> unless i have any kind of onscreen kbd
[13:33] <persia> Right.  That's why I'm suggesting d-i passwd/auto-login : it will automatically log in *whichever* username the user selects in the installer.
[13:33] <ogra> but you wont get back in if you log out
[13:33] <ogra> it doesnt set timed login and doesnt set userlist
[13:34] <ogra> both is needed
[13:34] <persia> Hmm...
[13:34] <ogra> autologin only works on first login, for the second timed login is required as well
[13:34] <persia> What's the use case for logging out?
[13:34] <ogra> touchscreen recalibration
[13:35] <ogra> heh, fun there is denemo for maemo :)
[13:35] <persia> Maybe that doesn't have quite so many bugs.
[13:36] <ogra> it seems to use timidity 
[13:36] <persia> ogra: Also, with the announcement of GNOME Mobile, what do you think about aligning Ubuntu Mobile with that base?
[13:36] <ogra> i guess its an older version
[13:36] <ogra> ?? 
[13:36] <ogra> mid is aliged with that 
[13:36] <persia> Hrm?
[13:36] <persia> -mid is hildon.
[13:36] <ogra> i dont want hildon in -mobile
[13:36] <persia> Neither do I.
[13:36] <StevenK> Gnome Mobile isn't Hildon
[13:36] <ogra> gnome-mobile *is* hildon
[13:36] <persia> No.
[13:37] <persia> Maemo is hildon.  GNOME Mobile is different.
[13:37] <ogra> well, matchbox and friends at least
[13:38] <persia> The block diagram I see is BlueZ, e-d-s, Telepathy, Avahi, GStreamer, Matchbox, GCon, SQLite, GCVF, GIO, Pango, Cairo, ATK, GTK*, GLib, and DBus.
[13:39] <persia> I *don't* see hildon-desktop, or any of that sort of thing.
[13:39] <ogra> well, apart from matchbox and telepathy ubuntu-mobile has exactly all components 
[13:40] <persia> From that set, Ubuntu Mobile uses almost all of it: the only pieces absent are that Telepathy wasn't selected for intrepid, and you're hinting compiz/metacity, rather than using matchbox.
[13:40] <persia> Am I missing something important?
[13:40] <ogra> nope
[13:40] <ogra> well, gvfs instead of gnome-vfs (which is dead)
[13:41] <persia> Yeah.  Where I wrote "GCVF" I meant to write "GVFS"
[13:41] <ogra> i was commenting the diagram :)
[13:41] <persia> Oh :)
[13:41] <persia> So I was thinking it might be handy to claim "Ubuntu Mobile is based on GNOME Mobile".
[13:42] <persia> But that requires consensus that it actually is :)
[13:42]  * ogra wonders when he manages to have hiw 2G SD card filled with crap in the n800 ... i'm installing apps since yesterday :P
[13:42] <persia> 2G is insufficient space.
[13:42] <ogra> well, i'D like to go on claiming that it is based on gnome desktop but it incorporates gnome mobile technology
[13:43] <ogra> it uses nearly the complete set of gnome desktop apps
[13:46] <persia> OK.  That makes sense.  GNOME Mobile claims it is the basis of Ubuntu Mobile, and I like to reciprocate, but I can see the value in claiming GNOME Desktop as well.
[13:46] <persia> For -mid, I think Maemo is the sensible upstream, so perhaps it's GNOME Mobile -> Maemo -> Ubuntu MID.
[13:46] <ogra> thats the important part to me ... i want the apps to work on 600 vertical pixels (minus 48px panel)
[13:47] <persia> Right, and that is a long-standing GNOME Desktop requirement: holding them to it makes sense.
[13:47] <ogra> xactly
[13:51] <lool> persia: Hmm the patch changed slightly since last time I saw it; I'm pretty sure it's not hildon dependent, but UI reorg
[13:51] <lool> I know the OEM people had trouble packing everything on screen in bluetooth dialogs
[13:51] <persia> lool: It's entirely UI reorg.  If the GTK+ looks clean to you, I'm thinking of pressing for it to be the default, rather than "hildon".
[13:52] <persia> Yeah, 1.5 has a *much* cleaner interface, and is compatible with our kernels.  Needs a heap of testing to be included though.
[13:52] <lool> perhaps this patch can now be made upstream then
[13:53] <lool> It was longer in the past, had more dialogs and all
[13:53]  * lool needs to go afk
[13:53] <persia> That's what I'm thinking, but since it's the first time I've every written in GTK, I want someone else's opinion :)
[13:55] <lool> I remember reviewing the changes in depth, but it's hard to comment on them as a patch as it depends on the affected widgets/code
[13:55] <lool> ogra-maemo: Like your N800? :)
[13:55] <ogra> yeah, love it
[13:56] <persia> lool: OK.  Is this something you can do later, or shall I hunt another GTK master?
[13:56] <ogra-maemo> the font is quite small in xchat
[13:58] <lool> persia: I think you're trying our the bluez packages regularly?  would be nice to apply the patch and see if it still improves the UI and send it upstream
[13:58] <lool> How stupid, my screen speakers are now shut off when the screen goes in power suspend mode
[13:58] <persia> lool: OK.  I'll find another GTK Master.  Thanks as always.
[13:59]  * lool goes back to cleaning
[14:00] <ogra> ogra-maemo, meep
[14:00] <ogra> hmm, no sounds
[14:00] <ogra> ogra-maemo, meep
[14:00] <ogra> ogra-maemo, again
[14:01] <ogra> ogra-maemo, pfft
[14:01] <persia> ogra-maemo: Does it help if someone else does it, or is it just broken?
[14:01] <ogra> ah, no libnotify
[14:01] <ogra> i guess i have to configure a wav file for sounds and the ballon thngie only wiorks with libnotify installed
[14:02]  * ogra-maemo goes looking for the pkg
[14:10] <persia> Hmm.  In today's MID image, midbrowser doesn't launch.
[14:48] <lool> Hmm NM seems to think the ath5k wifi on the Q1U is a wired network interface
[14:50] <ogra-maemo> did you try dis/enable wireless from the context menu ?
[14:51] <lool> ogra-maemo: There's no such thing, because it doesn't recognize it as a network interface
[14:51] <lool> ogra-maemo: What was last time you checked ath5k on Q1U?  2.6.26?
[14:52] <lool> It might work if we fix hal
[14:52] <lool> I could tell if I'd plug a kbd
[14:53] <ogra> i tried with .27
[14:53] <ogra> it recognized it corrently but all connect attempts failed
[14:53] <ogra> *correctly
[14:54] <ogra> i think the last time was with .27-2
[14:54]  * ogra needs to go to mow the lawn ... semms its the last sunny day for quite some time ... back later
[14:59] <persia> lool: Do you think bug #275158 needs to be on the release list?
[15:02] <rhp> Hi all. A question on the necessary hardware to run the mid image on. I am currently running ubuntu 7.10 on a Fuyitsu Siemens Stylus 3400 (Pentium III). Since it is a tablet-pc, I am wondering whether I could run the mid version of ubuntu on it as well.
[15:02] <rhp> Btw. it has only 4MB graphics memory, no 3D accel.
[15:02] <persia> rhp: How much RAM?
[15:02] <rhp> 192MB
[15:03] <persia> It'd be tight.  You could try.  I think you'd do best to use the mccaslin image, and make sure that the -lpiacompat kernel is installed.
[15:04] <persia> Mind you, ubuntu-mid is really designed for > 200DPI, so things will look a bit chunky.
[15:04] <lool> ogra-maemo: It fails to connect here as well; ISTR the driver only supports WEP at this time though
[15:04] <lool> And I'm using WPA
[15:05] <lool> I should check with some other AP and open access
[15:05] <ogra> cant be, i'm using WEP all over my house 
[15:05] <lool> persia: It shouldn't be a release blocker
[15:05] <lool> ogra: Do you get any packets in monitor mode?
[15:06] <persia> lool: Oh well.  It's trivial to fix, but I'm not sure if tjaalton or bryce will want to fix it if it's not a release blocker.
[15:06] <ogra> well, would be good to have synaptics (touchpads wont work without it, hal-input defaults to it for all touchpads) actually and its a trivial change 
[15:06] <ogra> lool, i didnt try
[15:06] <ogra> i will if i'm back ... really out now ...
[15:06] <persia> And my D4 (form factor device) has a synaptics touchpad.
[15:07] <lool> persia: I could fix it as well I guess?
[15:08] <persia> lool: If you have the git-fu, indeed.
[15:08] <lool> I do
[15:09] <persia> lool: Well then, thanks :) 
[15:09] <lool> ogra: I don't see any packets
[15:10] <rhp> persia: what does McCaslin indicate? Is that a code name for versions of ubuntu-mid?
[15:11] <rhp> How reliable are the intrepid test versions? Reliable enough, or should I really stick with the released hardy version?
[15:11] <persia> rhp: For the Ubuntu MID hardy release, there were four things released.  One was called "mccaslin" and was optimised for the Samsung Q1U.  It most likely to be compatible with most hardware.  The others were "menlow", optimised for some development boards, a KVM image, and a Moblin-Image-Creator project tarball.
[15:12] <persia> rhp: If you want to play with the development snapshots, you can grab a daily from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-mid/intrepid/current/
[15:13] <rhp> I read on the web-site there is also a 'regular' i386 version.
[15:13] <rhp> But I don't see images for that.
[15:13] <persia> That should work, and if it doesn't, try installing the -lpiacompat kernel in a chroot, and try that.
[15:14] <rhp> Ok, I'll try. 
[15:14] <persia> There's no images available for the i386 version of ubuntu-mid, and there's *heaps* of bugs because some changes were made architecture-specific that weren't.
[15:14] <persia> There's a preview image of ubuntu-mobile available for i386, but I'm not sure how well it works with 192MB RAM.
[15:14] <rhp> ok then, the mccaslin image it is. Thanks.
[15:15] <rhp> What are the development snapshots targetted at?
[15:15] <persia> You mean, what sort of devices?
[15:16] <rhp> Yes
[15:17] <rhp> There seems to be only one version, so no destinction between mccaslin and menlow.
[15:17] <persia> Well, I know it's been tested in KVM, on the Aigo MID, on the Samsung Q1U, on the Kohjinsha SR, and on the Sharp D4.
[15:17] <lool> persia: fixed
[15:17] <lool> persia: You might need Pas support though
[15:17] <persia> lool: Excellent.  Yeah, I'll send that as soon as I notice the upload is accepted.
[15:17] <lool> No it's fine
[15:17] <lool> %xfree86-driver-synaptics: !s390>------->------->------->-------      # Needs xserver-xfree86
[15:18] <lool> persia: I built the source from a debian box, so didn't close the lp bug in the changes, but I closed the bug by hand
[15:18] <persia> Oh good.  StevenK said it was in P-a-s, but didn't say it didn't need support.  I'll just expect the D4 sidebar to work for tomorrow's image then.
[15:18] <persia> lool: No problem.  I don't really care about changelog-closes-bug for this last-minute architecture-enablement stuff.
[15:20] <persia> rhp: There shouldn't be anything device-specific in the development snapshot images (if there is, it's a bug).  Whether all the features are working properly or not is a different issue.
[15:25] <rhp> persia: ok, clear enough. I'll give it a spin and find out for myself.
[15:27] <persia> rhp: Please let us know how it works.
[15:27] <rhp> Sure
[16:41] <crevette> hello persia
[16:42] <persia> hey crevette.  Have you tried superm1's test packages?
[16:42] <crevette> yep
[16:42] <crevette> not entirely
[16:42] <crevette> but there is no bluez-utils 4.x ?
[16:45] <persia> Just install bluetooth, bluez, and bluez-gnome: it should take care of everything else.
[16:46] <crevette> weird that bluez 4.7 is not installed
[16:46] <persia> crevette: You've added the bluetooth PPA to your sources.list ?
[16:46] <crevette> yep
[16:46] <crevette> okay, installing bluetooth solvd the problem
[16:47] <persia> OK.  Good :)
[16:47] <crevette> nice if we can have bluez 4 for intrepid
[16:47] <crevette> I have an error install bluez
[16:48] <crevette> Des erreurs ont été rencontrées pendant l'exécution :
[16:48] <crevette>  /var/cache/apt/archives/bluez_4.7-0ubuntu1~ppa2_i386.deb
[16:48] <crevette> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[16:48] <crevette> sorry for the french
[16:48] <persia> I thought superm1 fixed that.
[16:48] <persia> purge bluez-input, bluez-audio, bluez-serial, and bluez-network
[16:51] <crevette> I had a shitful of errors also about makedev
[16:57] <persia> Yeah.  Ignore those.  They need to be sorted, but they don't break anything.
[16:57] <persia> Also.
[16:57] <persia> !ohmy
[17:00] <crevette> ah
[17:00] <crevette> :)
[17:00] <crevette> sorry
[17:01] <crevette> bluetooth-wizard is nice
[17:03] <persia> Yeah.  It actually works too :)
[17:04] <crevette> bluetooth-sendto doesn't work for me
[17:04] <crevette> it keeps stalled with an error of obex-data-server
[17:04] <persia> Oh, right.  superm1 was going to look at that today: I think he said it might need obexd.
[17:06] <crevette> obex-data-server doesn't work no more with bluez 4 ?
[17:06] <persia> Dunno.  You might ask superm1 for more explanation in #ubuntu-motu
[17:07] <persia> I did a little keyboard testing, and am hacking the UI patch for the preferences dialog to not look so bad at 600 vertical pixels.
[17:26] <crevette> persia: I didn't get the comment https://mail.google.com/mail/#inbox/11ca06991d3a9b81
[17:26] <crevette> oups
[17:26] <crevette> not this one
[17:27] <persia> Yeah.  I can't read that :)
[17:27] <crevette> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez-utils/+bug/274950/comments/9
[17:27] <crevette> he wants to build the package with the patch ?
[17:28] <persia> Yep, and push to the PPA for people to test.
[17:28] <persia> More specifically, he's asking if you have time to build a package with the patch for testing.
[17:28] <crevette> okay
[17:28] <crevette> I'll try
[17:29] <persia> crevette: Good luck.
[17:29] <persia> If you run into issues, just ask for superm1 on #ubuntu-motu, and he'll probably be able to help.  I'm likely to be away soon, and for a while :)
[17:29] <crevette> okayish
[20:37] <rhp> ok. this is probably to stupid to ask, but I could not find an anwser on the wiki. Here goes: how should I put the image on a usb stick to make it boot ubuntu-mid? cat xxx.img > /dev/sdb? 
[21:17] <rhp> Is it true that booting the usb.img will overwrite my disk on the target system?
[21:17] <rhp> If so, I surely missed that big fat red warning sign that indicated as much...