[01:29] <Hamra> mouse bugs belongs to which package?
[01:30] <Hamra> misbehaving mouse, to be specific
[03:33] <mrooney> Can anyone give me any hints on whether https://launchpad.net/~timg-tpi/+archive will work on Intrepid?
[03:38] <nellery> mrooney, perhaps those in #ubuntu-kernel will be able to help you out better?
[03:40] <mrooney> nellery: thanks, I'll give it a shot.
[03:56] <mrooney> Hmm, I'm trying the madwifi svn snapshot, but sudo make install-modules doesn't seem to work, no make target for that, apparently?
[03:57] <mrooney> Hm, nevermind.
[04:07] <mrooney> ogasawara: around, by any chance?
[05:41] <Hobbsee> bug 275158
[16:37] <lfaraone> What package is the gnome-save-dialog in?
[16:38] <ssam> its part of gtk
[16:39] <ssam> libgtk2.0-0 is probably a good place to file it
[16:40] <lfaraone> ssam: Is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/275428 intentional behavior?
[16:40] <ssam> source package might just be gtk+2.0
[16:42] <lfaraone> ssam: no, I mean the bug itself, is it part of the HIG?
[16:42] <lfaraone> jcastro: ping
[16:47] <persia> lfarone: if that's intentional behaviour, it's a bug in the intention.  I've fallen afoul of that before, and generally chose to cancel and resave to work around it.
[16:48] <greg-g> a bug in the intention?
[16:49] <greg-g> in the screenshot, I shold be able to click on the "Downloads" button on the directory row (whatever that is called) and then click save and it save it to downloads.
[16:51] <persia> greg-g: Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but try the following: create a folder containing only folders.  Prepare to save something there.  Click one of the folder names in your folder list.  Try to save it in that directory.
[16:51] <persia> I always get stuck when I end up there.
[16:52] <greg-g> right
[16:52] <greg-g> I think we're saying the same thing, I thought you were saying the bug was in the user's intention ;)
[16:57] <persia> No, that if the bug were intentional (as in HIG compliant), that the intention that said that this was the correct behaviour was buggy :)
[16:58] <greg-g> gotcha
[16:58] <greg-g> I was mis-appropriating the word "intention"
[16:58] <persia> Mind you, it's confusing, because sometimes one does want to navigate to a folder.  I suspect it needs some thought.
[16:59]  * greg-g nods
[16:59] <greg-g> I'll check gnome bugzilla in a bit for a similar report, maybe some gnome hig mailing list too
[17:00] <greg-g> "in a bit" == in about 2-3 hours
[17:00] <persia> It's been standard behaviour for a while, so there's probably something unless the user is alone.
[18:32] <greg-g> is jonathan thomas here?
[18:34] <greg-g> sidenote: we really need to standardize what Fix Committed means within Ubuntu.  ie: either everyone does Fix Committed when it is in upstream svn or no one does (I'm looking at you Desktop Team)
[18:36] <Hew> greg-g: I agree. I think I've been told off for doing it each way :P
[18:36] <greg-g> Hew: exactly
[18:37] <nhandler> Hew: So have I ;)
[18:37] <greg-g> bdmurray: we really need to standardize what Fix Committed means within Ubuntu.  ie: either everyone does Fix Committed when it is in upstream svn or no one does (I'm looking at you Desktop Team)
[18:38] <Hew> I would vote for using Fix Committed when the fix is upstream.
[18:38] <greg-g> Hew where upstream? in svn or in a release?
[18:38] <greg-g> big difference
[18:39] <Hew> greg-g: In svn would be fine I think.
[18:39] <Hew> greg-g: As long as the fix has been made available.
[18:40] <greg-g> but, here is the thing... the fix has not been committed anywhere in Ubuntu, so the Ubuntu task should still be triaged and the upstream task should be Fix Committed
[18:40] <greg-g> know what I mean?
[18:41] <greg-g> ie bug 273673
[18:41] <Hew> greg-g: Yes, but triaged means it's ready for a developer to work on a fix. Nobody needs to work on a fix when you can just take a commit from upstream.
[18:41] <greg-g> it should not be set to Fix Committed for the UBuntu task, the upstream task should be set to "fix released" or whatever it is.  what is the point of using a bugtracker that links upstream tasks if we don't use it logiclaly ;)
[18:42] <Hew> greg-g: Fix Committed is probably a bad name for it, I think it would be more useful if it had the behaviour of "Fix Available"
[18:42] <greg-g> Hew: I disagree, a developer _does_ need to see if the patch from upstream can be applied to the UBuntu version (we sometimes have sizable diffs between ours and upstream for packages like OOo)
[18:43] <greg-g> the fix available is still only available in upstream, not UBuntu
[18:43] <greg-g> so, it should be set against the upstream task. imho
[18:44] <Hew> greg-g: Fair enough. I'm not a developer, I'm just saying from a triagers perspective, I find there to be a big difference between triaged and a fix being available. If fixes can't actually be applied easily, that's another issue to complicate things.
[18:44] <greg-g> once the fix moves into Ubuntu should it be set to fix committe against the Ubuntu task
[18:45] <greg-g> here is the situation: we have 2 tasks, one for Ubuntu, one for upstream.  If the fix is in upstream's svn, where should the "fix Committed" status be applied?
[18:47] <Hew> greg-g: Technically upsteam should be Fix Committed, but I never see that status on upsteam bugs (maybe the bug watch can't pick it up). I would say Fix Committed should be on the Ubuntu bug, and it should be Fix Released upstream.
[18:48] <greg-g> I just disagree with the part about Ubuntu's task being Fix Committed, because the fix is no where committed in Ubuntu.
[18:48] <greg-g> and why would it be Fix Released for upstream if upstream hasn't released the fix?
[18:49] <greg-g> being in svn does _not_ mean available for all, it usually means in the development branch.
[18:49] <Hew> greg-g: Yea I understand your disagreement :P. The wording "Fix Committed" doesn't make sense, but I feel that would be the most beneficial use of the status.
[18:50] <greg-g> to me "Fix Committed" conjurs up the notion of a svn/bzr/git commit
[18:50] <Hew> greg-g: If we want to make Fix Released mean Fix Released, and the same for Fix Committed, then I agree
[18:50] <Hew> greg-g: Yes
[18:50] <greg-g> make FR mean FR?
[18:51] <Hew> greg-g: I'm just trying to propose what I think would be the most useful application for the statuses, while ignoring their names. Perhaps I'm just confusing things..
[18:51] <greg-g> Fix Released does mean Fix released, imo
[18:52] <Hew> Fix Committed doesn't make sense atm the way people are using it
[18:52] <pwnguin> so all the bugs fixed in alpha are fix committed until some time in october?
[18:52] <greg-g> see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status
[18:52] <pwnguin> becuases they're technically not released
[18:52] <greg-g> pwnguin: no, read that link I just postd
[18:52] <Hew> pwnguin: :P
[18:52] <greg-g> posted
[18:52] <greg-g> "If a bug is fixed in the current development branch, that is good enough for Fix Released. If the bug also needs to be fixed in a stable release, use the "Target to release" link to nominate it for that release. "
[18:53] <pwnguin> and we all know that a good sectuion of users don't use devel
[18:53] <pwnguin> but do report bugs
[18:53] <greg-g> many times a bug does not need to be fixed in a stable release
[18:53] <greg-g> see ^
[18:53] <greg-g> that is the point of stable releases, only critical bug fixes are pushed to it
[18:54] <pwnguin> i thought the point was to get users software they can use :P
[18:54] <greg-g> they are using it
[18:54] <greg-g> :)
[18:54] <greg-g> if you want a rolling distro, use gentoo :P
[18:54] <pwnguin> nobody wants gentoo :)
[18:54] <Nafallo> sid
[18:55] <pwnguin> even gentoo doesn't want gentoo
[18:55] <greg-g> then waiting for the next release is a trade off for Ubuntu
[18:55] <greg-g> anyways, time to go do some work
[18:55] <greg-g> happy to discuss this at a meeting
[18:55]  * greg-g goes
[19:51] <mrooney> wow...Dell's Ubuntu machines are becoming really cheap!
[19:52] <mrooney> the Dellbuntu XPS M1330 is $350 cheaper than an equally configured Vista one

[20:04] <pwnguin> are they identical?
[20:05] <greg-g> mrooney: really, that is good news if it is true!
[20:08] <pwnguin> it looks like they've bumped up the system requirements
[20:08] <mrooney> pwnguin: yeah, check out http://www.dell.com/content/products/RBIredirect.aspx?rbi=GKiitGAbBa2SB+6V9bxpRyvwm4g6Tn36wTwLVrus+1Yk1iSYlI8tpShc0L6a76U+xxNknT+/JMtiiGCipwtTDVR3gD7rP0D5Bw+DRgttMrSH4k1GVuvVsT7Kgb28G8X59A54CcfPDTOXlUFeRUB5Xg==
[20:09] <mrooney> included in the $949 is 4GB of memory, a 320 GB 7200rpm HDD (normally a $225 upgrade) and bluetooth, among a few others
[20:09] <pwnguin> so the cheapest is still windows
[20:10] <mrooney> yeah, in this case I think
[20:10] <mrooney> but if you don't want the cheapest and want something similar to that, the same configuration with vista comes to $1300
[20:10] <pwnguin> its clever on their behalf
[20:11] <mrooney> I am considering an m1330 as my next laptop, does anyone know anyone else that preinstalls ubuntu that does it better than dell?
[20:12] <pwnguin> whats the difference between a GMA 3100 and an GMA X3100?
[20:12] <crimsun> mrooney: zareason tends to be good.
[20:12] <pwnguin> system76 does preinstalls, i donno if they're "better than dell"
[20:13] <crimsun> maco has a fairly recent zareason 13.3" model that she's pleased with
[20:13] <pwnguin> mrooney: actually, they have diferent wifi cards
[20:15] <pwnguin> and it seems like bluetooth is optional
[20:16] <maco> mrooney: though for my laptop the webcam and fingerprint reader drivers aren't in the mainline kernel yet
[20:18] <mrooney> pwnguin: yeah the wifi cards are different but the same in functionality, and for the $350 difference it didn't seem like a huge deal :)
[20:19] <maco> argh why do people email the triager instead of the bug?
[20:19] <greg-g> maco: :) never had it happen actually
[20:21] <mrooney> I never have either!
[20:21] <maco> there's one guy that emails me directly when i ask a question on the bug...even though Reply-To on bugs is set to the bug. he manually changes it to email me instead.
[20:22] <crimsun> it could simply be an incompetent MUA.
[20:22] <crimsun> don't presume maliciousness first ;)
[20:22] <maco> crimsun: not maliciousness, just thoughtlessness
[20:22] <crimsun> check his MUA string
[20:22] <maco> i told him to send his responses to the bug, and gave him the email for the bug
[20:23] <maco> he then sent two blank emails to it, and today emailed me directly to ask why he logs he sent to the bug aren't showing on launchpad
[20:24] <maco> he's using thunderbird 2.0.0.17
[20:27] <crimsun> I don't think that's indication of thoughtlessness
[20:28] <Hamra> hi all
[20:29] <maco> well moving the conversation to being not-archived-on-launchpad doesn't exactly make sense
[20:30] <Hamra> maco: what are you talking about?
[20:30] <maco> Hamra: a bug reporter emails me responses instead of putting his replies on the bug
[20:31] <Hamra> ah, very annoying
[20:36] <Hamra> who's the upstream of synaptic? debian?
[20:39] <greg-g> Hamra: well, this is the homepage: http://www.nongnu.org/synaptic
[20:39] <greg-g> Hamra: but it looks like the best place to file bugs would be Debian with a link in Ubuntu
[20:39] <pwnguin> i think most of the synaptic team was hired by shuttleworth
[20:40] <greg-g> yeah, I know mvo is very prominent in the team
[20:40] <pwnguin> as is seb
[20:41] <greg-g> yep
[20:41] <Hamra> thanks
[20:42] <greg-g> Hamra: np
[21:05] <afflux> hi there
[21:06] <afflux> anyone heard of the name "aurimas fischer"? He has 0 karma and just moved a bug with 50 duplicates to another one with 70 dupliactes without comment.
[21:06] <chrisccoulson> never heard of him. which bug?
[21:07] <afflux> bug 151200 was the one with 50 duplicates, the new one is 145360.
[21:07] <afflux> bug 145360
[21:08] <afflux> ah, well. It is quite confusing. He commented on the first bug, and moved all it's duplicates to the new one, but seems to have forgotten the old masterbug itself.
[21:10] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok - i understand now. not sure why he's done it though
[21:10] <afflux> I'll try to retrace one of the duplicates of 151200 locally, to get a more complete stacktrace.
[21:11] <chrisccoulson> that would be a good idea
[21:12] <mrooney> ahh yeah I noticed that too as one my bugs was a duplicate of 151200
[21:13]  * thekorn is confused
[21:13] <thekorn> what the hell did he do.... and why?
[21:14] <thekorn> I hope he used a script, marking tons of bugs as duplicate by hand in one hour is alot of work ;)
[21:16] <afflux> it took him 13 minutes, could be a script or a lot of tabs :>
[21:28] <Hamra> if a certain bug doesn't exist in upstream, should i file it there and link to it in launchpad?
[21:28] <chrisccoulson> it depends if the bug is an upstream problem or not
[21:29] <Hamra> a wishlist in synaptic
[21:30] <chrisccoulson> if it's a fairly big wishlist (ie, not just changing a default), then it would be better off upstream
[21:31] <chrisccoulson> synaptic bugs go to debian i think
[21:31] <Hamra> yes, that's what i was told
[21:35] <Hamra> does the program reportbug in our repos, report to debian? or am i better off using email? coz i can't seem to find a page to report bugs there :S
[21:37] <crimsun> Hamra: no, it reports to fiordland.ubuntu.com if bts ubuntu is used.
[21:41] <afflux> chrisccoulson, mrooney, thekorn: okay, so 152100 is definetly about w being an invalid pointer in src/display.c:1342.
[21:41] <afflux> not sure why is this the case
[21:42] <afflux> however, w is high, ie. not 0x1, as in bug 146171.
[21:42] <afflux> err, yes. Meant 145360.
[21:42] <afflux> I don't know whether this means they are not or they are actual duplicates.
[21:43] <afflux> I'll look further into this tomorrow.