| === brik_ is now known as Brik | ||
| kirkland | mdke: ping me when you get a few minutes tonight | 16:12 |
|---|---|---|
| mdke | kirkland: hiya | 21:13 |
| kirkland | mdke: hey there | 21:13 |
| jjesse | hello mdke | 21:13 |
| mdke | hi jjesse | 21:13 |
| kirkland | mdke: once again, my apologies for the name slip... 50 lashes | 21:13 |
| mdke | kirkland: no worries! | 21:13 |
| mdke | kirkland: so I checked out the control panel to the search utility | 21:13 |
| mdke | there seemed to be a problem with it though | 21:13 |
| mdke | lemme see now | 21:14 |
| kirkland | mdke: ? | 21:14 |
| mdke | when I click on the drop down "Included sites from Dustin Kirkland" it tells me "Loading Sites Failed" | 21:15 |
| kirkland | mdke: hmm, okay, this is new territory to me, i've never shared control | 21:16 |
| kirkland | mdke: i can see two sets of the sites indexed | 21:17 |
| mdke | yeah, I was going to say that there is some repetition | 21:17 |
| kirkland | mdke: and I get the same javascripty error message | 21:17 |
| mdke | on the homepage it lists each help site twice | 21:17 |
| kirkland | mdke: okay, i deleted the duplicate sites listed | 21:18 |
| kirkland | mdke: shall i throw up a page with the Ubuntu Documentation header/footer? | 21:19 |
| kirkland | mdke: and the custom search? | 21:19 |
| kirkland | mdke: (that part is the easy part) | 21:19 |
| kirkland | mdke: getting the results to look like you want is the hard part | 21:19 |
| mdke | kirkland: is it possible to get a search bar without the "Create your own Custom Search Engine" bit underneath? | 21:20 |
| kirkland | yeah | 21:20 |
| kirkland | one sec... | 21:20 |
| kirkland | mdke: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/helpsearch.html | 21:25 |
| mdke | oh cool | 21:26 |
| kirkland | mdke: you could create a more custom results page | 21:26 |
| kirkland | mdke: i just splat/pasted help.ubuntu.com | 21:26 |
| kirkland | mdke: minus all the links, etc. | 21:26 |
| mdke | that's cool | 21:26 |
| mdke | so can I just grab the source of that and play with it? We're rolling out a new theme for help.u.c for intrepid I hope | 21:28 |
| kirkland | sure | 21:28 |
| mdke | along these lines - http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/index.html | 21:28 |
| kirkland | mdke: yeah, you can just look at the source of http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/helpsearch.html | 21:28 |
| kirkland | mdke: everything you need is right in there | 21:29 |
| kirkland | mdke: one more thing... | 21:29 |
| kirkland | mdke: i just added "refinements" | 21:29 |
| kirkland | mdke: so search for something, like "Play a DVD" | 21:29 |
| kirkland | mdke: then you can filter your results | 21:29 |
| mdke | yeah, that works really well | 21:30 |
| kirkland | mdke: to only "Official", "Community", or "Manuals" | 21:30 |
| kirkland | mdke: we can play with the text of those 3 areas | 21:30 |
| kirkland | mdke: but i think you'll get the idea | 21:30 |
| mdke | I guess we should weigh per release as well, that search shows 7.04 a lot higher than 8.04 | 21:30 |
| kirkland | mdke: that would be possible | 21:30 |
| kirkland | mdke: however, i'll warn you.... | 21:30 |
| kirkland | mdke: i have had very little success improving Google's default weighting mechanisms | 21:31 |
| kirkland | mdke: i've tried a number of different things | 21:31 |
| mdke | ah, fair enough | 21:31 |
| kirkland | mdke: and always, I've found their weighting gets closer, more reliably | 21:31 |
| mdke | in that example, the 9th result should be 1st really. Is there any way to weight the official docs higher? | 21:31 |
| kirkland | mdke: sadly, it does mean that sometimes Dapper docs bubble to the top | 21:31 |
| mdke | ok | 21:31 |
| kirkland | mdke: because that Dapper doc is the most popular according to Goog | 21:32 |
| kirkland | mdke: yeah, you can assign weights to each | 21:32 |
| mdke | what have we got at the moment? | 21:32 |
| kirkland | mdke: equal weights, it's up to Google to sort the results | 21:34 |
| mdke | so you think if we play with the weights, it won't help? | 21:35 |
| kirkland | mdke: let me adjust them | 21:36 |
| kirkland | mdke: but, I don't believe it'll help much ;-) | 21:36 |
| kirkland | one moment | 21:36 |
| mdke | i suppose ideally, the results would be sequential rather than mixed | 21:43 |
| mdke | so official first, community, then manpages | 21:43 |
| mdke | but I guess that isn't possible | 21:43 |
| kirkland | mdke: okay, so weights need to add up to 1.0 | 21:48 |
| kirkland | mdke: i gave Official=0.5, Community=0.3, Manuals=0.2 | 21:48 |
| kirkland | mdke: see if those results are any better for you | 21:48 |
| mdke | hmm. doesn't seem to be much different. "Play dvd" still gives a manpage as its second result | 21:49 |
| mdke | an irrelevant one too :( | 21:50 |
| kirkland | mdke: agreed, either i'm doing something wrong, or weighting is almost ineffectual | 21:50 |
| kirkland | mdke: i'm inclined to drop manpages from that list | 21:52 |
| mdke | shall we try 0.6, 0.3 and 0.1 first? | 21:52 |
| kirkland | mdke: i'm using 0.9, 0.05, 0.05 right now :-) | 21:52 |
| mdke | heh | 21:52 |
| kirkland | mdke: no effect | 21:52 |
| kirkland | mdke: i must be doing something wrong | 21:53 |
| kirkland | mdke: http://www.google.com/coop/docs/cse/cse_file.html | 21:53 |
| mdke | same results here too | 21:53 |
| kirkland | mdke: # | 21:54 |
| kirkland | * | 21:54 |
| kirkland | # weight: A number between -1 and 1, that indicates how much results annotated with that label should be demoted or promoted. | 21:54 |
| mdke | ah, perhaps we should go into the minuses | 21:54 |
| kirkland | mdke: yeah, let me play with that | 21:54 |
| kirkland | mdke: okay, now it's looking better | 21:59 |
| kirkland | mdke: i went with 1, 0, -1 | 22:00 |
| mdke | looking good | 22:00 |
| mdke | i wonder how we should deal with the different versions on the official docs | 22:00 |
| kirkland | that's tough... | 22:00 |
| kirkland | we could use the same weighting | 22:01 |
| kirkland | (now that I've figured out what i've been doing wrong) | 22:01 |
| mdke | hmm | 22:01 |
| mdke | it has to add up to 0? | 22:01 |
| kirkland | but someone might actually want 7.04 for whatever reason | 22:01 |
| kirkland | mdke: no | 22:01 |
| mdke | hmm | 22:02 |
| mdke | not sure how best to deal with those | 22:03 |
| kirkland | mdke: that's a tough one | 22:03 |
| kirkland | mdke: refinements? | 22:04 |
| mdke | how hard would it be to have different weighting for the search bar on different parts of the site? | 22:05 |
| kirkland | mdke: you'd have to create a a separate CSE (custom search engine) for each distro | 22:05 |
| kirkland | mdke: not terribly hard to do, but your maintenance cost multiplies | 22:05 |
| mdke | yeah | 22:06 |
| kirkland | mdke: search for "play a dvd 7.10" | 22:06 |
| mdke | maybe we use refinements then | 22:06 |
| kirkland | and then for "play a dvd 8.04" | 22:07 |
| kirkland | we just need to jam a version into the search terms itself | 22:07 |
| mdke | yeah, that works nicely | 22:07 |
| kirkland | mdke: let me think on that | 22:08 |
| kirkland | mdke: search again, and you should see the link colours match our theme | 22:11 |
| mdke | cool | 22:13 |
| kirkland | mdke: basically, on the q=TERM we need to dynamically insert q=TERM+8.04 or whatever | 22:13 |
| kirkland | mdke: based on the place we are on the page | 22:13 |
| kirkland | mdke: on the "site", i mean | 22:13 |
| mdke | sounds tricky | 22:14 |
| kirkland | and it limits yours results | 22:14 |
| kirkland | mdke: refinements would be the way to go, IMHO | 22:14 |
| * mdke nods | 22:14 | |
| kirkland | mdke: do you prefer the words, intrepid, hardy, etc. or the versioned numbers? | 22:14 |
| mdke | versions!!! | 22:14 |
| mdke | heresy :) | 22:14 |
| kirkland | mdke: i like the words :-) | 22:15 |
| mdke | me too, but they're not for users | 22:16 |
| mdke | I'm just playing with the idea of whether it would be desirable to have our own search rather than google. It's those adverts that I think will annoy people | 22:19 |
| kirkland | mdke: yup | 22:19 |
| kirkland | mdke: i don't care either way | 22:19 |
| kirkland | mdke: see the ubuntu version refinements | 22:23 |
| kirkland | mdke: search http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/helpsearch.html?cx=003883529982892832976%3Ae2vwumte3fq&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=play+a+dvd&sa=Search | 22:23 |
| mdke | kirkland: sorry, lost internet | 22:27 |
| mdke | back now | 22:27 |
| kirkland | mdke: search http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/helpsearch.html?cx=003883529982892832976%3Ae2vwumte3fq&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=play+a+dvd&sa=Search | 22:28 |
| mdke | hmm | 22:29 |
| kirkland | mdke: i can shoot a note to the list, if you'd like to gather feedback there? | 22:56 |
| kirkland | mdke: point to this demo page, etc? | 22:56 |
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