[00:01] <ogra-maemo> i'll set up a PPA next week,there we can prepare newer packages... currently i'm still a bit busy getting the images built in the datacenter though
[00:26] <persia> rhp: You can certainly apt-get install on a live image.  Be warned that you're limited in the size of our changes, because the overlay to the unionfs lives in tmpfs, so if you want a lot of changes, you'll want to do them to the image itself.
[00:37] <davidm> persia, do you mind if we have a catch up call sometime in the next couple of hours instead of tomorrow?  I'll be in Oregon and it might be easier for me tonight.
[07:43] <rhp> persia: clear enough. First things first, though. Without wifi I will not get very far. Any idea's why my nic is recognized as wired? In the 'regular' ubuntu releases I never had that problem.
[07:45] <persia> rhp: It's a different kernel.  I'm not sure why it reports it that way for you.  I'm finding some oddnesses with network interfaces as well.
[07:47] <rhp> Hm...
[07:47] <rhp> Since I broke my laptop on de mccaslin image last night, I figure I might as well install 8.10 on it. That opens the possibility to create my own image.
[07:48] <rhp> I'll be doing that tonight to see if I get any further.
[07:50] <persia> rhp: Good luck.  Did the mccaslin image not work?
[07:52] <rhp> As soon as I noticed it started screwing up my partition table I shut down the laptop in hopes of being able to restore it (but no)... after that I didn't try again. Might as well though, since it is broken anyway.
[07:54] <persia> Yeah.  It's broken now, but it ought have the mccaslin environment installed if you try again.  Sorry for that oddity: it's one of the big things that was changed for intrepid.
[07:55] <rhp> And rightly so...
[07:55] <rhp> Anyway, it gives me something to do tonight :)
[08:13]  * lool waves
[08:15] <persia> hey lool.
[08:31] <persia> lool: Do you know much about pygtk?  It seems to be FTBFS on several arches, including lpia, which is blocking a ubiquity build.  I've tried the last few versions uploaded, and they all seem to FTBFS.
[08:31] <persia> (at least for lpia)
[08:35] <lool> it built on i386
[08:35] <lool> It's just the Xvfb breakage again
[08:35] <persia> Is it?  It looked like API issues to me.
[08:35]  * persia looks again
[08:36] <lool> I looked at the amd64 build log
[08:36] <lool> It seems to die in the testsuite
[08:36] <lool> After some randr warnings
[08:36] <persia> Ah, yeah, you're right.  The things I thought were the cause are just warnings.
[08:36] <lool> I don't think we die if the ts fails, but it seems make gets confused
[08:38] <lool> Anyway, I bet seb128 is already looking into this
[08:39] <persia> OK.  It's beta-critical for -mid, as lpia can't be installed until ubiquity is built which can't happen until pygtk has the same version for -dev and lib.
[08:41] <persia> And indeed he is, judging by -devel :)
[08:54] <StevenK> Hmmm. Changing the policy of scrolling gives us 5 icons across not 4
[08:56] <persia> Let's do that, as it ought look nicer.
[08:56] <StevenK> I was planning on
[08:57] <persia> I currently have three.  Does that match you?
[08:57] <persia> I think maybe not.
[08:57] <StevenK> I'm on a Q1, mind
[08:57] <persia> That's 1024x600 isn't it?
[08:57] <persia> I'm getting three across by found down at 1024x600 with vesa-on-psb
[08:58] <persia> s/found/four/
[08:58] <StevenK> Yeah, 1024x600.
[08:58] <StevenK> I'm getting 5 across
[08:58] <persia> Is the text a little more squashed?  Does the same trick work for thunar as well?
[08:59] <crevette> heya
[08:59] <StevenK> No, the text looks okay
[09:00] <persia> In Thunar I'm getting 4x4.7 or so, but having 5 there as well would be nifty.
[09:00] <persia> Is the scroll policy thing kourou-specific, or a setting that ought apply more widely?
[09:03] <StevenK> Kourou specific
[09:03] <StevenK> It's a GTK-ism I wasn't calling
[09:04] <StevenK> persia: If you want to see, open kourou.py and add 'scrolled_win.set_policy(gtk.POLICY_NEVER, gtk.POLICY_AUTOMATIC)' below the 'scrolled_win = gtk.ScrolledWindow()' line
[09:04] <persia> I presume I ought restart kourou after?
[09:05] <StevenK> Right
[09:07] <persia> I still get 3x4 for Home, but no scrollbar.
[09:08] <persia> I get 3x4.2 for All, with a scrollbar
[09:08] <StevenK> There ought to be one?
[09:08] <StevenK> (For Home) ?
[09:10] <persia> There isn't one: no need to scroll.
[09:11] <persia> There was one before I changed the policy.
[09:12]  * persia is running today's image, so may be a few hours out of date, and has no working networking, despite a variety of devices that are intended to provide a network
[09:12] <StevenK> persia: That's the behavior I was intending
[09:13] <persia> Then it works, but I'm not seeing more icons.  I wonder if there's something funny about my resolution
[09:13]  * persia reads the logs
[09:15] <persia> Ah.  Vesa decided to use 800x600 for some reason.  That's the source of my problem.
[09:18] <StevenK> 800x600 still fitting 12 icons for Home makes me happy
[09:19] <persia> Yeah.  It's a nice bonus.  Personally, I'd like full resolution, but I'll settle for it not being broken :)
[09:35] <samjam> any plans for ubuntu mobile on arm eabi yet?
[09:39] <persia> samjam: It depends on Ubuntu generally.  Currently Ubuntu doesn't have any builds for armel.
[09:40] <samjam> thanks
[09:40] <persia> samjam: Unless the practice changes, you can probably expect to find a recompilation of intrepid for arm at mojo.handhelds.org sometime post-release, and you can see if the Ubuntu Mobile build works, but I don't think it's an explicit target for the mojo folk.
[09:40] <samjam> I didn't know that, thanks!
[09:42] <persia> samjam: No problem.  I've several arm devices myself :)
[09:42] <samjam> I see the Hasty ARMv5EL, I may have to try it. I'm using the HTC Universal, do you have one?
[09:43] <persia> samjam: Nope.  I've Zaurii and kuroboxen.
[09:45] <persia> (not that kuroboxen are "mobile" in the sense that they work whilst being moved, without heavy modification, but they are armel)
[09:55] <StevenK> Argh
[09:55] <persia> ?
[09:55]  * StevenK is getting defeated by GTK
[10:01] <StevenK> iconview.window.set_back_pixmap(...) gives AttributeError: NoneType object has no attribute
[10:01] <StevenK> So iconview.window == None, but why
[10:02] <lool> persia: I think I've uploaded a fixed pygtk
[10:03] <persia> lool: I see that, and am very excited.  I have a list of 10 FTBFS that I'd like solved pre-beta, and that's probably the most critical.  Thank you.
[12:05] <lool> persia: Dunno who will give back the pygtk FTBFSes
[12:05] <lool> ubiquity is still in the "Failed to build" state
[12:09] <persia> lool: There's another issue with ubiquity as well, as it also fails on i386.  I expect it will be reviewed in a few hours.
[12:33] <persia> My.  Repeatedly using a USB stick only as a target for dd results in some interesting partition maps.
[12:57] <lool> persia: synaptic accepted
[12:58] <persia> Hrm?  pygtk rdeps?
[13:04] <ogra> anyone with an opinion on bug 275299 here ? 
[13:05]  * ogra changed the description for -mobile to:
[13:05] <ogra> Description: The Ubuntu mobile system
[13:05] <ogra>  This package depends on all of the packages in the Ubuntu mobile system
[13:05] <ogra>  Ubuntu Mobile is an alternative to ubuntu-desktop, intended for use on
[13:05] <ogra>  Ultra Mobile PCs (UMPCs)
[13:05] <ogra> the description in the bug would make sense for -mid though i think
[13:06] <persia> No.  That's -mobile.
[13:06] <lool> persia: Err xf86-synaptic that is
[13:06]  * lool coffee &
[13:06] <persia> A "MID" is a special Intel word for the class of devices once known as "PDA", but with more RAM, processor, and local storage.
[13:06] <StevenK> The description in the bug does sound like mid-default-settings
[13:07] <persia> lool: Yeah.  That makes more sense :)  I've been playing with it all day: it's a lot easier to work on a device when the pointer can be controlled.
[13:08] <persia> I don't like listing storage there.  The only device I have with < 10G storage is 4 years old.
[13:09] <StevenK> And recommended memory? No.
[13:09] <StevenK> It should list the form-factor
[13:09] <persia> Right, and clearly differentiate the two.  As much as anything, it's about DPI: "How big is a finger?"
[13:09] <ogra> right, list touchscreen dependency and screen size
[13:09] <persia> -mobile works fine without a touchscreen.
[13:10] <ogra> but it is designed with focus on touchscreens
[13:10]  * persia tried it on the Kohjinsha, and ignored the miscalibrated touchscreen, and was very happy with the result
[13:10] <ogra> that will be more noticeable with jaunty though
[13:10] <ogra> where i.e. gksu will popup cellwriter automatically 
[13:10] <ogra> and things like that
[13:10] <persia> Please don't make it not work with a touchpad, trackpoint, or mouse.  I *really* like having the simple, clean interface, but don't want to get fingerprints all over my screen.
[13:11] <persia> Oh, I'm fine with that, as long as it's done through the accessibility interfaces, and can be disabled by users with touchpads (e.g. Eee users).
[13:11] <StevenK> persia: Use your nose?
[13:11] <ogra> or your big toe :)
[13:11] <StevenK> Heh
[13:12] <ogra> though we'd have to lower the dpi for that i guess :P
[13:12] <persia> Bah.  *all* the lpia devices I own have perfectly functional synaptics touchpads.  I don't see why I shouldn't use them.
[13:12] <StevenK> I see a new standard. Toe-driven interfaces
[13:12] <ogra> yay
[13:12] <ogra> the new toe bluetooth keyboard ... at the size of a 37" Tv
[13:13] <ogra> handsfree computing :)
[13:13]  * persia can toe-type on 15" keyboard.
[13:13] <StevenK> ogra: 37 inches? That sounds more like a feet-driven interface
[13:14] <StevenK> And you get shifted keys by stomping
[13:14] <ogra> well, your toe or your heel :)
[13:14] <persia> I like that.  velocity sensitivity for alphanumeric keyboards.
[13:14] <ogra> persia, do we have a prper fix for the error 15 bug btw ? 
[13:14] <ogra> hmm, and do we actually have a bug number ? 
[13:14] <persia> ogra: Yes.  That's sorted.
[13:14] <ogra> ah
[13:14] <persia> Yes, and I closed it.
[13:14] <ogra> k, no number needed
[13:15] <persia> I actually opened *two* bugs, one for each flavour, but they turned out to be the same problem, so I dup'd them, and StevenK did the necessary adjustment to fix them.  If you build a mobile image somewhere sane, it will work.
[13:15] <ogra> good
[13:16] <StevenK> ogra: You need to put the kernel under casper
[13:16] <ogra> StevenK, yeah, i saw that, but wasnt aware thats enough for the installed system 
[13:17] <persia> Yeah, it's a hardcoding in ubiquity.
[13:17] <ogra> ah, k
[13:18]  * persia fails again at using syslinux, and decides to wait for usb-creator to work
[13:19] <ogra> ?? its trivil to use ... you just need mtools installed and a syslinux.cfg in the root of the target fs
[13:20] <persia> Yeah.  I did that.  The result causes a loud beeping noise.
[13:22] <persia> My procedure was fdisk /dev/sdb; mkfs.vfat /dev/sdb1; mount /dev/sdb1 /tmp/mnt; cp -pRa /mnt/intrepid-desktop-i386/* /tmp/mnt; cp /mnt/ubuntu-mid/syslinux.cfg /tmp/mnt; umount /tmp/mnt; syslinux /dev/sdb1
[13:23] <ogra> ah
[13:23] <ogra> dont partition :)
[13:23] <ogra> syslinux doesnt work on partitions
[13:23] <persia> Just mkfs.vfat /dev/sdb ?
[13:24] <ogra> yeah
[13:24]  * persia tries again, but knows there is supposed to be an easy tool, and wants it to work
[13:40] <persia> ogra: Thanks.  I'm booting the desktop now.
[13:40]  * persia may do the same to sort out not being able to boot the ubuntu-mobile image
[13:57] <ogra> urgh
[13:58] <ogra> does midbrowser work for anyone with the latest upgrades ? 
[13:58] <ogra> asac, ^^^
[13:58] <rabeeh2000> hi all,
[13:58] <rabeeh2000> i have been trying to build mobile-basic-flash to use xulrunner-1.9
[13:59] <rabeeh2000> i'v seen all the posts from asac and bob spenser that it's broken
[13:59] <rabeeh2000> but those posts are from April time frame I was wondering if someone has better clue  how to solve the issue?
[14:00] <rabeeh2000> basically what i'm seeing is a black window in hildon UI which is the home.html page; but afterwards nothing; as if the javascript: calls are not being executed.
[14:00] <persia> rabeeh2000: I don't think anyone was able to come up with a good solution.  For intrepid, m-b-f has mostly been replaced with kourou.
[14:00] <rabeeh2000> any tip would help. thanks
[14:00] <asac> ogra: what happens?
[14:01] <persia> Mind you, kourou doesn't support flash or xul, so it may not meet your needs.
[14:01] <ogra> asac, well, it coredumps pretty quietly if i run it from a termnal
[14:01] <StevenK> We tried to move m-b-f to xulrunner-1.9 for Hardy, and reverted it
[14:01] <persia> ogra: midbrowser hasn't worked for me in about a week.
[14:01] <rabeeh2000> persia: midbrowser works for me using xulrunner-1.9 (both x86 and ARM versions)
[14:01] <ogra> well, i just tried it for the first time after installing ubuntu-mobile on the Q1 and upgrading 
[14:01] <persia> (but I've been fiddling with increasingly messy environments, so this may not be indicative)
[14:02] <ogra> its a fresh intrepid install fully up to date
[14:02] <persia> rabeeh2000: In the Ubuntu Mobile or Ubuntu MID intrepid development snapshots?
[14:02] <rabeeh2000> persia: ubuntu mobile from hardy
[14:03] <asac> ogra: just "core" ... or any other output?
[14:03] <persia> rabeeh2000: Yeah.  It works fine there.
[14:04] <ogra-Q1> ogra@ogra-Q1:~$ midbrowser  
[14:04] <ogra-Q1> pure virtual method called
[14:04] <ogra-Q1> terminate called without an active exception
[14:04] <ogra-Q1> Aborted (core dumped)
[14:04] <ogra-Q1> ogra@ogra-Q1:~$ 
[14:07] <persia> ogra: Following your instructions gets me to an initramfs prompt, because casper can't find the right disk (it's not /dev/sda, and it's not /dev/scd0, but it's /dev/sdb).  Any suggestions?
[14:07] <ogra> hmm, note really (phonecall now)
[14:10] <persia> Oh well.  Thanks.
[14:25] <rabeeh2000> how can i launch kourou?
[14:25] <rabeeh2000> i just built it for hardy; how do i integrate it with hildon?
[14:47] <rabeeh2000> stevenk: sorry for buging you on this; but can you please provide a hint how to launch kourou? is it ready at all in demo level?
[14:47] <StevenK> rabeeh2000: You need to edit /etc/hildon-desktop/home.conf and home-layout.conf, replacing what's there with the path to kourou.desktop
[15:16] <ogra> persia, i dont get where you get the passwd/auto-login from ... its not documented anywhere
[15:17] <persia> It's in user-setup-apply in user-setup.  ubiquity processes it and flips the checkmark.  d-i is used as a prefix so it doesn't get included in the debconf DB on the installed system.
[15:19] <persia> It ends up doing a bunch of ugly sedery, but if you don't look at the implementation, it works pertty good.
[15:25] <persia> ogra: Hmm.  Looking at gdm, it doesn't seem to have much in the way of debconf questions.  Sorry.
[15:25] <persia> Maybe you could add one for jaunty?
[15:27] <ogra> wel, you said there is a checkbox somewhere for it 
[15:27] <persia> No, I said there was a checkbox for automatic login.
[15:27] <ogra> ah, user-setip ... 
[15:27] <ogra> i should read the backlog first :)
[15:27] <persia> I was looking for something for timed login.
[15:27] <persia> (or read my mind in this case, as I lost track of context)
[15:28] <ogra> it does timed login
[15:28] <ogra>                                 $log $chroot $ROOT sed -i \
[15:28] <ogra>                                         -e "s/^AutomaticLoginEnable=.*\$/AutomaticLoginEnable=true/" \
[15:28] <ogra>                                         -e "s/^AutomaticLogin=.*\$/AutomaticLogin=$USER/" \
[15:28] <ogra>                                         -e "s/^TimedLoginEnable=.*\$/TimedLoginEnable=true/" \
[15:28] <ogra>                                         -e "s/^TimedLogin=.*\$/TimedLogin=$USER/" \
[15:28] <ogra>                                         -e "s/^TimedLoginDelay=.*\$/TimedLoginDelay=10/" \
[15:28] <ogra>                                         "$GDMCONF"
[15:28] <ogra> great
[15:28] <ogra> no problem then
[15:28] <persia> Oh, cool.  preseed it then.
[15:29] <ogra> you should just have pointed me there and i wuld have kept quiet ;)
[15:30] <persia> I don't want you to be quiet.  It's generally too quiet here.  On the other hand, asking me from where something comes may be more useful than asking me about something.
[15:32] <ogra> yeah, 'ill try to ask more intelligently in the future 
[15:33] <ogra> i see user-setup even has proper handling for gdm-cdd.conf now :)
[15:33] <persia> Cool!  I wasn't sure if it handled that, but if it does, you should be completely sorted.
[15:40] <ogra> geez
[15:40]  * ogra just closed all apps since the last upgrade and wasnt aware the default wallpaper had changed
[15:41] <persia> heh.
[15:52] <rabeeh2000> stevenk: tried changing home.conf and home-layout.conf, and also rebuilt hildon-desktop from interpid http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/hildon-desktop
[15:53] <rabeeh2000> stevenk: unfortunately this doesn't seem to be good enough; since m-b-f is still being launched
[15:53] <ogra> uninstall it
[16:48]  * persia has now successfully installed Ubuntu Desktop on a telephone.  For those watching at home: this is not what you want.
[17:04] <rabeeh2000> stevenk / ogra - so it works for me now; only few inputs -
[17:05] <rabeeh2000> 1. got a python backtrace on this -     bgcolour = gtk.gdk.Color("#000000")  --> unclear why python doesn't understand gtk.gdk.Color? gtk version?
[17:05] <rabeeh2000> 2. unclear why kourou needs - /usr/share/pdk/pixmaps/image-creator-32x32.xpm to run ?
[17:06] <rabeeh2000> 3. if using standard X-windows with a mouse then double click on any icon doesn't work.
[17:07] <rabeeh2000> and finally; thanks for saving the day :)
[17:07] <persia> rabeeh2000: #3 confuses me, as I have had just as much success with mice, touchpads, remote screen access (vnc), virtual mice, and touchscreens to launch applications.
[17:07] <persia> For #1, you're running this in intrepid, or backported to hardy?
[17:08]  * ogra guesses 2) is just a hardcoded path in the .desktop file (which is a big nono but wouldnt surprise me with MIC)
[17:08] <rabeeh2000> persia: for #1 it's a backport for hardy
[17:09] <rabeeh2000> persia: for #3, i'll check it right now with Xephyr
[17:09] <ogra> gtk.gdk.Color is there since ages
[17:09] <ogra> shouldnt be the issue
[17:09] <ogra> probably you need to import gdk separately in hardy
[17:11] <rabeeh2000> ogra: for #1; the error message - TypeError: an integer is required
[17:11] <rabeeh2000> ogra: i'll try doing that too. thanks for the tip
[17:11] <ogra> well, i think you need gtk.gdk.color_parse()
[17:12] <ogra> not sure though, i avent seen the kouru code but have a nearly identical app here 
[17:12] <ogra> where i use the abov eline instead
[17:13] <persia> rabeeh2000: Might be a Xephyr thing, but it does work for me for intrepid for real HW and KVM.
[22:37] <ian_brasil> ogra: does accessibility work with the theme on ubuntu-mobile.img or didn't you try that