* DannyKing goes to edit the wiki00:21
DannyKing_MMA_:  I've added my icon to the Discussions page. I'm not sure what I think of it. I like the detail (you'll notice the edges are slightly bent in places) but it may be too grungy / dark.00:45
DannyKingI'm off to bed. night all00:45
Cimikwwii, ping00:54
mrooneykwwii: around by any chance?01:11
_MMA_Just throwing up the opposite of yours.03:39
rsc-dust 0.2 is out btw if anyone is following the developments.03:39
rsc-it finally (I think!) maintains a good compatibility with the core applications i defined, so i guess its finally time to make it "stable"03:40
* _MMA_ is slightly bored. Should watch a movie.03:40
_MMA_rsc-: Awesome. :)03:40
_MMA_brb. updates03:41
PRGUY85rsc-, I was thinking, do you need any help with gdm? At least, idea-wise?03:41
rsc-PRGUY85, 0.2 is out btw03:42
PRGUY85rsc-, is that the one I'm using?03:42
rsc-i cant remember if i changed anything else03:43
rsc-but anyway, for the GDM, I was hoping to do it myself.03:43
rsc-gotta get time to do it though03:43
rsc-the thing is, I dont want the GDM to just be a recycling of the old Dust elements (dark toolbars etc).03:43
rsc-it needs something new.03:43
rsc-for instance03:43
rsc-that textured paper-y thing, that's something not found in the current theme.03:44
rsc-but, nonetheless, fits it well (IMHO)03:44
rsc-i think the GDM will need something like that, gotta think of what it is for now :)03:44
rsc-i can do mockups but as for packaging a functioning GDM theme, taht im not sure about :/03:45
PRGUY85well a good gdm should have the same default wallpaper for the theme03:45
rsc-not necessarily IMHO03:45
rsc-I guess thats just me and how I dont like the "lets use this everywhere" ideology.03:45
rsc-perhaps a derivative of it, but not exactly the same.03:45
PRGUY85hmm, well I think so.  To me it feels like you are just there and need password.03:46
PRGUY85but with a different wallpaper, it feels detached.03:46
rsc-the Win XP manages to do that well -- the GDM (its equivalent at least) looks different from the rest of the interface but somehow still connects.03:46
rsc-it felt like a "doorway"03:46
PRGUY85true, well do you think you should issue a default wallpaper, or just try to mesh with whatever Intrepid throws?03:47
rsc-forget intrepid.03:47
rsc-dust is outside intrepid03:47
rsc-i would want a default wallpaper but honestly i dont know what that is yet :/03:48
PRGUY85well I really liked the bark03:48
PRGUY85didn't you use Rocks once?03:48
PRGUY85also, I mentioned Intrepid since Dust is for Ubuntu and well Intrepid is the next release.03:48
rsc-I liked the rocks03:49
rsc-i just wonder if there's something else out there.03:50
PRGUY85where can I find that wallpaper?  I used the Mac one with Dust one time.03:50
rsc-check this out03:50
PRGUY85the Mac Rocks hhee03:50
rsc-that wallpaper fits the theme so damn well.03:50
rsc-i just wonder if there's something like that for dust03:50
rsc-it feels like it was that very wallpaper that spawned the idea of that theme03:51
rsc-i need something like that for Dust, but I have *no* idea what that is right now :)03:51
rsc-(if i dont find it, i'm settling with rocks)03:51
PRGUY85send the rocks03:51
rsc-i gotta redo the wallpaper version03:51
rsc-with my color corrections and such03:51
rsc-but lemme find the stock photo03:51
PRGUY85Im currently using Intrepid on my laptop to test it.  It works, theme works too although well its the same old.03:52
rsc-same old?03:52
PRGUY85well same old Human theme.03:53
PRGUY85with a bland yet functional wallpaper at the moment.03:53
rsc-http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/Rocks-2048x1536-rsc-edit.jpg <-- my edit, source unknown03:54
PRGUY85its nice yet I think it's too busy.03:55
PRGUY85yet I don't think those were the rocks03:55
PRGUY85more like those03:56
rsc-how do i make gdm themes?03:59
PRGUY85well I just know how to change backgrounds on existing themes.  However you could always do it by analizing a current gdm theme code.04:00
PRGUY85and working backwards.04:00
rsc-i dont know04:00
rsc-i dont remember ever using rocks04:01
rsc-but if i did04:01
rsc-i probably used the ones from Leopard04:01
PRGUY85the ones I sent?04:01
PRGUY85hey GDM doesn't look that hard.  Hardest thing is just creating icons for it04:03
PRGUY85I'm analizing new wave's current gdm04:03
PRGUY85its quite easy, it's just creating the artwork for icons. box and just linking the file to them04:06
PRGUY85so gdm displays those graphics04:06
PRGUY85rsc-, current human volume icon on taskbar does not properly work with Dust04:12
rsc-UGH, pixmap insensitive toolbar buttons are ugly05:19
darkmatterrsc-: that would depend solely on the design of the button05:40
rsc-lemme show05:45
darkmatteroh, you mean the icons on the insensitive... yeah05:47
darkmatterthere's a patch for that... just a sec05:48
rsc-GTK needs a better pixbuf engine.05:54
rsc-nice patch but i dont want any special dependencies for it :/05:55
darkmatteryeah.. pixbuf is actually a very good engine, but the problem is that even though its maintained, it hasn't actually been updated in ages05:56
darkmatterin other words... it's old05:57
rsc-also.. it didnt change anything05:58
rsc-maybe i gotta log out first05:58
* DannyKing arrives on the scene08:49
* DannyKing goes to get coffee08:49
DannyKinghi _MMA_13:46
_MMA_DannyKing: Your torn sheet of paper icon is a SVG?13:48
_MMA_Looks good.13:49
DannyKingThanks :) The ripped side took ages13:49
_MMA_Ya think we should add lines?13:49
DannyKingdoesn't look fantastic on dark backgrounds though13:49
DannyKing_MMA_: I considered it, yeah. I thought it might look good (perhaps only for the larger sizes)13:50
DannyKingOh I edited the front page of the wiki a little13:50
_MMA_I saw.13:51
DannyKingAgree / disagree?13:51
_MMA_Anyone subscribed to the page get notified.13:51
_MMA_Loos fine. No problem here.13:51
DannyKingah ok. I subscribed too13:51
* DannyKing is trying to get a new printer working in Ubuntu13:51
DannyKingIt's supported apparently13:52
_MMA_I've had *awesome* luck with HP.13:52
DannyKingI've heard some just work in Ubuntu now, easier than the Windows install, heh13:53
andreasn_MMA_: I tried to call HP to check if their printer would work in Ubuntu before I bought my printer. The dude answered "uhhh...I don't know man, did you try google?"13:53
andreasn_MMA_: so I bought it, plugged it in and started scanning and printing right away13:54
* DannyKing loves Ubuntu :)13:54
_MMA_andreasn: I just check the CUPS site most of the time. Last time I bought one it was pretty close to their latest model and everything works. USB/Network use. Access to all options.13:56
_MMA_I gotta set it up to serve the printer driver though to windows machines.13:57
andreasnoh, network printers works well too? cool13:57
_MMA_I tested it, though I use it USB.13:57
DannyKingNetwork printing works great here13:58
DannyKingAlthough it took me two years to work out I need to enable some arcane setting on XP buried deep in the control panel to allow unix clients to print through it :\13:59
_MMA_DannyKing: So for a standard mime icon you think you're gonna do something like the paper one minus the torn edge?13:59
DannyKingI was going to use the torn version - you think it's too complex for the standard mime icon?14:01
_MMA_DannyKing: And I think the torn icon looks fine on dark backgrounds. I seems light ones are the issue. Guess the shadow that needs to go here could set the tone for the set.14:01
_MMA_DannyKing: I do. But we can see what others think.14:01
DannyKingSure thing14:01
_MMA_DannyKing: Am I wrong in this is missing the "fiber" feel in the paper?14:04
DannyKingWell, the left column actually has a very transparent (2%) sand texture over it which I was using just to test it out, although it's probably /too/ faint, I can't find a way to comfortably add a grainy effect without using a bitmap pattern14:06
joshuablounthello everyone! I wanted to ask about the maximize / minimize button in the "dusk" theme... anyone feel like fielding that question?14:08
_MMA_joshuablount: The guy to best answer isnt around atm.14:09
joshuablountNp, may I have his IRC nick? I'd love to hear a bit about his decisions.14:10
_MMA_DannyKing: Oh! I got a great idea for image filetypes. Ill put in the response to you submission. I'm also gonna split the topic off.14:10
_MMA_DannyKing: Duck is Rico correct?14:10
DannyKingsure, what's the idea?14:10
DannyKingNot sure, sorry14:11
DannyKingjoshuablount: you can take a look at the ubuntu-artwork mailing list archives14:11
DannyKingplenty of discussion about dust there14:11
_MMA_DannyKing: Read the email in a min. :)14:11
_MMA_joshuablount: I believe it's rsc-.14:11
joshuablount_MMA_: DannyKing: Thanks, and I'll sort through the mailing list and see if I can find my answer.14:13
_MMA_DannyKing: Check email.14:19
DannyKingCould you elaborate on the image idea? Do you mean like a page torn from a scrapbook with an image stuck to it, or just a blank torn page?14:23
_MMA_Im just thinking about the base image. A piece torn from a sketchbook. The non-spiral kind.14:25
DannyKingIt's a nice idea - I personally connect that with sketching/planning/drawing rather than all images. I don't see the immediate link between a sketchbook and a photograph, for example14:27
_MMA_Yes. One of the reasons I mentioned having multiple mime backgrounds we could use.14:28
_MMA_DannyKing: Don't laugh. I drew this in 5 seconds. http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/Untitled.png But something like that? Little torn edge into the page?14:30
DannyKingOh I think I understand, so for mime icons there will be a background that is paper, but different paper depending on the type of icon? e.g. a .doc would have a sheet of writing paper with an emblem suitable for word processing on top, and a .jpg would have a sheet of sketchbook paper with an emblem on top?14:30
* DannyKing looks14:31
DannyKingYeah I see what you mean, I like the concept. Just trying to make sure I understand ^14:31
_MMA_Something like that yeah. Would need some chat. As a .jpg *could* be a drawing or a photo.14:31
liwhi! would anyone be able to help me with getting an icon for system-cleaner(-gtk)? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CleanupCruft is the spec for the app14:34
_MMA_liw: kwwii is the guy to talk to.14:35
* liw waves to kwwii14:38
DannyKing_MMA_: I'll do a brainstorm and some sketches for idea for mime types and types of paper14:38
* DannyKing just got a new scanner (I've been shopping, can you tell? ;) ) so that might help with my design process and texture issues14:39
* _MMA_ bought a 8 year-old flatbed scanner to make sure it worked.14:40
DannyKing So when do you leave for the south, _MMA_ ?14:49
kwwii_MMA_: why am I the guy to talkt o?14:51
liwkwwii, you are the source of all pretty bits?14:52
_MMA_DannyKing:  6 days.14:53
kwwiihehe, right14:53
DannyKingThat lines up with me moving to uni14:53
_MMA_kwwii: Since you put things into Human icon set you are the best to talk to.14:56
* liw is suddenly struck by the thought that _no_ icon is the cleanest possible icon, which would suit system-cleaner fine14:56
kwwii_MMA_: yeah, ok14:57
kwwiiliw: I might find time to get something done, but it will take a day or two14:57
DannyKingliw: heh14:57
liwkwwii, no worries -- it's fine if system-cleaner ships without one, but I thought I'd ask in case there's someone looking for an icon they could make14:57
liwkwwii, if you get something done, very much thank you14:58
kwwiiliw: I'll let you know :-)14:59
* kwwii woke up with a nasty head cold this morning :-(15:00
_MMA_DannyKing: I have things set up to where I should be able to handle any email and BZR uploads.15:00
DannyKingCool. I expect to take a step back for a few weeks, but I remain interested15:02
_MMA_kwwii: Aww.... Wanna get some hot soup then spoon in bed?15:02
kwwii_MMA_: oh baby, don#t you know it15:09
DannyKing_MMA_: Assuming all different mime types have a paper base15:28
DannyKingwhat kind of paper could be applied to documents that only exist in the digital world, e.g. SVG15:29
_MMA_Something generic like what is on the wiki now I suppose. Though kwwii wants to get away from the curled page.15:29
* DannyKing does too15:30
DannyKingan idea I had a while ago for emblems for different types of images files was this:15:31
DannyKing(don't think it applies to breathe but it's a conversation point, at least)15:31
DannyKingyou can see there that the images display the properties of that image type, so gif has limited colours, png has transparency, jpg has more colours than png, etc15:31
_MMA_DannyKing: Hmm... Interesting. If you want to work on it, revise to fit what we're trying to do here, go ahead. Make up a proposal and submit to the list.15:32
_MMA_DannyKing: I do really like some of the details you have there.15:34
DannyKingturns out it's a bad idea to have text that's meant to be read in icons15:35
DannyKinganything smaller than that and the whole idea breaks down15:35
DannyKingI'll take a stab at doing .png .gif, .jpg and .svg15:36
_MMA_DannyKing: "turns out it's a bad idea to have text that's meant to be read in icons" What do you mean?15:39
_MMA_A simple label like "FLAC" on the icon in the text like in the .php icons?15:40
DannyKingThose icons I just pasted have the extension text (.htm, .css, etc) in the actual icon which was silly.15:40
_MMA_The "code" detsil?15:40
DannyKingthe code is fine, but the black part at the bottom breaks down at anything smaller than that size15:40
DannyKingshould have just been without that grey part15:41
_MMA_I actually like that. Especially for audio icons. A simple waveform graphic doesn't tell me its a FLAC file at a glance.15:42
_MMA_I did this: http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/audio-x-flac.svg15:44
_MMA_For a large handful of audio types.15:44
_MMA_But the label is pretty large.15:45
DannyKingThats nice, I like the detail - we could musical notation for audio file types?15:45
_MMA_Sure. Though, my arrangement sux there. I just never fixed it.15:46
* DannyKing starts to tidy up his page icon15:50
DannyKing_MMA_: so how do you think I should adjust it to make it more suitable for the base mime icon?15:55
DannyKingJust remove the tearing and have a flat sheet of white paper?15:55
_MMA_Sure. See what you come up with. I hope kwwii and other respected members chime in.15:58
* DannyKing isn't sure what the torn page could be used for15:58
_MMA_.txt, .conf15:59
_MMA_I'm sure others.15:59
DannyKing_MMA_: is it okay to use imageshack to host images for use on the wiki discussion page?16:15
DannyKingI don't think they expire16:20
_MMA_DannyKing: Sure. I do that myself because if you need to upload an image to the wiki with the same name you can't. I don't know the rational for that.16:22
DannyKingCool. take a look at the discussions page, updated the torn page to include smaller sizes16:22
DannyKingI don't think I like the 48x48 one though16:23
_MMA_Yeah. I think we can scale down a bigger chunk of the large one.16:25
_MMA_Which is what it looked like what you kinda did.16:25
_MMA_Or grabbed a section.16:25
DannyKingYeah I scaled up actually, then cut a section out16:27
DannyKingThe idea was to make it an A5 page rather than an A416:27
* DannyKing didn't spend much time on it though16:27
DannyKingI'm going to take a break, bbl16:29
=== njpatel is now known as njpatel_away
=== njpatel is now known as njpatel_away
thorwilrsc-: hi! would you please put your replies on mail below the quoted part and also edit the messages to only contain what you directly refer to?18:51
rsc-oh sorry18:51
rsc-is that more acceptable?18:51
rsc-(i personally hate it when people do that but okay :])18:52
DannyKinghi thorwil18:52
thorwilrsc-: it makes reading and discussion much easier. do-not-top-post is even official rule for the list, as it is for most free software lists18:52
DannyKinghi rsc-18:52
rsc-whats top-posting?18:53
rsc-posting at the top?18:53
thorwilrsc-: admittedly there are several people who do not follow these rules again and again, but after having endless threads about it on the list, it's getting tiresome. so i'm picking you juts because i care about your contribution18:54
thorwilrsc-: yes, new material at the top, often a full quotation at the bottom18:54
rsc-sorry, most of my email experience is with Outlook in a corporate setting18:54
rsc-forgive me :)18:54
thorwilrsc-: no problem. i know switching between office and list style isn't easy18:55
thorwilit's all microsofts fault!!!18:55
thorwiloh, hello DannyKing18:59
DannyKingHow's it going?18:59
thorwilraining all day and i get completely we 2 times :)19:00
thorwilarg, got wet, i mean19:00
DannyKingAh that sucks19:00
DannyKingRained on me here too, but that's expected in England :)19:00
thorwilwould have fog otherwise, right? ;)19:01
DannyKinghehe you can count on it19:01
DannyKinglol... I googled "booting without swap" because I wanted to know how to disable swap on my linux box (don't ask) and one of the google results was "hotboots.com: a list for men who enjoy swapping boots with others"19:11
* _MMA_ hasn't used swap in years. (just have alot of RAM)19:28
_MMA_Well, on a production box anyway. My daily use laptop has a GB.19:29
_MMA_GB of RAM. (desktop has 3)19:29
* thorwil learned that working on a large image in GIMP (with it being allowed to take almost all RAM) and at the same time trying to bzr push such an image is a bad idea19:31
Borzoi am making a version of trash icon, for the breathe iconset. when i thought that the trash icon is overrated. maybe it could be changed to a toilet icon ;) a new challenge19:31
thorwilBorzo: you mean the trash bin metaphor is overrated?19:33
Borzowell a bit, but it is hard to come up with something better19:33
Borzoand then everyone is used to the concept, soo....19:34
Borzoif you change it to a toilet, it might not be intuitive anymore ;)19:34
Borzoit would be amusing though19:35
thorwili think there have been toilet icons as replacement. at least for windows19:35
* DannyKing likes the current bin icon19:36
Borzoreally? but probably not part of the official iconset19:36
Borzowhich Os had the shredder, I think it was OS/219:37
thorwilDannyKing: current Ubuntu/Human or Breathe?19:37
DannyKingI have some reservations about it, but as I said on the list I think it's a nice icon19:37
Borzoit is nice, but very similar to the human one, no?19:37
DannyKing_MMA_: think I'll get away without having swap on a home ssh / bit torrent server?19:39
thorwilBorzo: well, a nod to the Human icons now and then is a good thing. but it should be judged all by itself19:39
Borzothorwil: so breathe is not intendet to cut itself from the human iconset completely?19:40
DannyKingBorzo: it's meant to combine elements of human, oxygen and hyper-realism19:41
thorwilBorzo: it should became a better Human. post-human ;)19:41
* Borzo wonders if his trashcan falls into hyper realism19:41
Borzoah uber homosapiens!19:41
DannyKingBorzo: are you Sebastian on the list?19:42
BorzoDannyKing: no19:44
thorwilDannyKing: he will likely use spg7619:44
DannyKingah yeah true I remember now19:45
_MMA_DannyKing: My server has a GB of RAM and no swap. Its a file/print/game/torrent server. Works great.19:45
DannyKing_MMA_: thanks19:45
DannyKingWhat happens if it runs out of memory? Crash?19:45
_MMA_Usually some sorta lock up but it's never happened.19:45
_MMA_Nothing uses enough RAM here. Never has anything leak either.19:46
DannyKinggotta run, afk19:47
* _MMA_ thinks our community needs a feed on Planet. Something that says we don't do official art to the world and puts notes about what's up from time to time.19:48
thorwilnot a bad idea19:48
* _MMA_ ponders doing it after Intrepid is released.19:52
ethana2Project Kyūdō?20:34
_MMA_Click and read the link.20:36
* ethana2 is on the third page20:36
ethana2ok, read it20:37
ethana2sounds pretty abstract, but I like it20:37
ethana2Anyone up for some general theme paradigm discussion or is this strictly theme production here?20:38
ethana2I'm using ubuntu desktop+netbook here...20:39
ethana2human-murrine with ubuntustudio colors20:39
_MMA_ethana2: Many people are busy. Ask away. Note that any "this should be default" chat should be entered into lightly.20:39
ethana2I'll try not to make any absolute statements about ubuntu specifically20:39
ethana2btw, _MMA_, do you have the dust theme working?20:40
_MMA_As we don't any control over default art.20:40
_MMA_ethana2: For the most part.20:40
_MMA_I think Im not bleeding-edge.20:40
ethana2ok, 'cause it won't work on my machine and it's driving me nuts20:40
_MMA_rsc-: ^^^20:40
ethana2i end up with dust title bars and the rest looks like windows 98..20:41
ethana2Well, Dust 0.2 is out, and I'm trying to use that...20:41
_MMA_You're most likely missing the engine, or, an update.20:41
ethana2i installed the engine from a .deb...20:41
ethana2Should I log out and back in to load the engine properly or something?20:41
_MMA_Couldn't hurt. But I can't tell you for sure.20:42
ethana2I don't want to bother if i'm not sure it'll work20:42
ethana2i'll log out one of these days, you know, when there's a kernel update (suspend FTW)20:42
ethana2Well, I'm using window-picker-applet right now instead of title bars20:43
ethana2it's not completely mature yet, so it has some missing functionality..20:43
ethana2I'm also using maximus, to get rid of title bars20:43
ethana2...what I'd really like is this:  window title in the window-picker-applet, applications, places, system to the left, clock and such to the right20:44
RyanPriorWho's driving this flying umbrella?20:44
ethana2window menu, toolbar, and controls all in one20:44
ethana2RyanPrior: your name strikes me as familiar20:45
ethana2but what you said makes little sense to me20:45
dashuaethana2: Are you using murrine engine from trunk?20:45
ethana2......and the window menu, toolbar, and controls20:45
ethana2no, 0.220:45
RyanPriorethana2: I'm a contributor, so you've probably seen me around. I haven't been a member of the art community, but I'm thinking I'll have to get involved.20:45
ethana2from the .deb posted today20:45
dashuaWell, I'm sure it's  the style to profile change.20:46
_MMA_RyanPrior: The major effort right now is around the Breathe icon set and the Kyūdō guidelines.20:47
ethana2gyarr, yeah, I'd really like to get Dust working, that would make me feel a lot better right now20:47
RyanPrior_MMA_ thanks. I've been looking at Kyūdō on the wiki, but it doesn't seem to be an implementable specification in the least. Is there a more concrete plan somewhere?20:47
_MMA_That *is* the plan for community focused efforts. It's in development.20:48
ethana2should i remove the one i got from the ubuntu incoming art wiki today?20:49
dashuaethana2: See if that works.20:49
* ethana2 drops it into appearances dialog20:49
ethana2nope, same20:50
RyanPriorIs there a central place for the Breathe icons or is that being orchestrated through the email list?20:50
_MMA_Yes. The mailing list. Here for real-time chat.20:50
dashuaethana2: I dunno then.  Working from the one I pulled from bzr.20:51
RyanPriorI see there's a branch in Launchpad.20:52
_MMA_RyanPrior: For? (there's 2 chats going on here)20:53
thorwil_MMA_: why do you propose to ignore as reply to my attempt at a thread killer (i knew it wouldn't work)? ;)20:53
_MMA_thorwil: Hmm... I don't understand. You think I want people to ignore you? If so, no. I want people to ignore the thread altogether.20:55
thorwil_MMA_: no, it was clear that you proposed to ignore the thread. the thread i attempted to close with my mail ;)20:57
_MMA_Ahh... Sorry. :)20:57
thorwilRyanPrior: kyudo is at a stage before actual specifications. if you would just jump right in to write specs, ho would you know why your are doing it and what you want to achieve20:58
ethana2i'm glad we have some sense of direction20:59
ethana2actually thinking about things is double plus good20:59
RyanPriorthorwil: Sure. However, since I was greeted with "our major effort is the Kyūdō guidelines," I thought perhaps they were further along.20:59
thorwilwould be nice to get some feedback/input on that level, but so far very few people seemed willing or able to work there21:00
thorwilRyanPrior: i did have some help, but i'm still th sole author of everything on the wiki regarding kyudo. if i work on an icon or buy me new shows, it doesn't progress ;)21:02
RyanPriorOh, I'm not talking about icons or marketing junk. What I don't see from Kyūdō (and maybe I missed it) is an end-goal. What I did see is that we want to have good communication between teams so our arrows don't miss their mark - but that's hardly a new goal, and I don't yet understand how Kyūdō is supposed to fit.21:06
_MMA_RyanPrior: It will be.... I'll let thorwil explain. :P21:07
thorwil"Within in the long-term goal of achieving an optimal presentation for the Ubuntu GNU/Linux Distribution:21:07
thorwilCreate and deliver an optimal theme for each release, starting with Jaunty Jackalope. Where optimal means: made to the project participants best ability within a release cycle, with the aim to further the goals of Ubuntu."21:07
thorwilRyanPrior: that's from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/KyudoGuidelines/Foundation21:07
RyanPriorSure, but that's either vague or insulting.21:07
RyanPriorIt would be insulting if it was insinuating that the teams haven't been giving to the best of their ability.21:08
RyanPriorIf not that, it's vague as to how that goal is anything different from the expected norm - that people do the best they can to make releases look good given the time and resource available.21:08
_MMA_Some haven't. That's for sure. (but besides the point)21:08
thorwilRyanPrior: if that expected norm was so clear, i don't get why people don't just do it ...21:09
thorwilRyanPrior: so the "obvious has to be spelled out"21:10
_MMA_RyanPrior: It should also be noted that this isn't for the default art/processes. It will be guidelines to help community efforts.21:10
RyanPriorSo is this something Jono Bacon has weighed in on?21:10
thorwilRyanPrior: but the briefing is further enfolded with the imperative characteristics of the optimal presentation. not going to copy-paste that from the wiki now21:10
RyanPriorthorwil: I've read the wiki, no worries.21:11
thorwilRyanPrior: next steps should be to define what the selection of an audience actually means and to further describe the message we want to communicate21:13
thorwilRyanPrior: afterwards, specs for wallpaper, windows and each widget could follow21:13
RyanPrior"Linux for Human Beings" seems like a starting point. So, if I want to weigh in on those things is there a special Kyūdō mailing list?21:14
thorwilno, it all happens (or doesn't) on the art list21:14
RyanPriorThat's surprising.21:15
thorwilhow so?21:15
* thorwil has to log out real soon now21:15
RyanPriorIf it's a community-wide project, I wouldn't have guessed that the primary venue would be the art mailing list21:16
RyanPriorThanks for chatting, I'm sure we'll have more to talk about later. :-)21:16
_MMA_RyanPrior: It is only for art direction.21:16
_MMA_And the art list is for community art. It in no way dictates the look and feel of Ubuntu.21:17
thorwilRyanPrior: i hope so :)21:17
thorwilgood night!21:17
RyanPrior_MMA_: where are the discussions which dictate look and feel of Ubuntu?21:28
_MMA_RyanPrior: They are governed completely by Canonical. Some if it is here as it's art guy is part of our community. But ultimately, it's their show.21:30
RyanPriorAh. I've been watching the art process and I've been very disappointed, which is why I made up my mind to get involved.21:31
_MMA_There's nothing that says community art wont find its way to default. We just have no say. It's best to forget about it and just create.21:32
_MMA_So we will focus our own efforts to create great art. With packages freely downloadable.21:32
RyanPriorWell, I'm not disappointed with what I see coming out of the art community. The mailing list and wikis are full of good work and ideas. The problem is, it isn't being distributed with Ubuntu!21:33
_MMA_Sure. Just not anything we can do about it.21:34
RyanPriorNo wonder there are so many derivatives of Ubuntu which basically just have different art. I always assumed that the community drove the decision-making process for art. :-(21:35
_MMA_No. The art has never been a reason for a derivative. Just so happens people like rebranding things.21:36
RyanPriorWell, I can't imagine that at least some of the derivatives haven't been born out of frustration with the art community's work being ignored.21:37
_MMA_As someone who has lead a derivative for years and been involved in the community, I haven't seen 1. Though, I'm sure one day it will happen.21:39
ethana2Say, what's the default gnome window decorator?21:56
ethana2I can't figure out how to get compiz' to do what I want and I wanted to swap it out21:56
_MMA_ethana2: metacity21:56
darkmatter_MMA_: typo much? it's meta*shitty* :P21:57
ubottuPlease watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.21:57
ethana2it dumped me back into metacity21:58
_MMA_ethana2: You'll find that as long as it's not directed at anyone or excessive, swearing is fine.21:59
ethana2gosh dangit, and now it's not using my settings21:59
* ethana2 shakes fist21:59
RyanPriorFor the record, metacity is my favorite.22:48
RyanPriorA window manager for people who hate window managers.22:48
* ethana2 is using it now22:51
ethana2but I still despise the application/window decorator distinction22:51
ethana2the reason osx looks so great is that it doesn't have it22:51
CimiDShi guys23:06
kwwiiman, i am sick23:08
kwwiii bet I slept 16 hours today23:08
PRGUY85sup fellas23:15
PRGUY85rsc-, any changes in dust?23:16
compachohey guys. I'm relatively new to ubuntu and linux. (1 year exp) I'm wondering, why ubuntu doesn't use any real life photography for wallpaper rather than abstract images.23:59

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!