=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 30 Sep 19:00: LoCo Council | 01 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 01 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 02 Oct 00:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 02 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 02 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
TheMusoHey amachu.11:54
amachuTheMuso: Hi11:54
amachuelky: persia: lifeless:11:55
amachuHi all11:55
persiaGood evening.11:55
amachuand where are zakame and belutz?11:55
* persia loads the agenda11:55
amachupersia: I just dropped a mail to you :-)11:55
amachuluckily not as I feared11:55
persiaamachu: Something I need to hunt down before the meeting?11:55
amachuelky: Hi11:55
amachunope, I feared dis-conection and delay due to that11:56
persiaOdd.  Although I'm sure the meeting is now, the wiki page claims it's tomorrow.11:56
amachuOh ho!11:56
TheMusoSounds like a date mixup.11:57
amachuTheMuso: yep!11:57
persiaYeah.  It says "01-October-2008", and it's currently "30-September-2008".11:57
amachuthats my fault11:57
amachumixed up the date11:57
TheMusoDoesn't matter, we've put 2 and 2 together.11:57
persiaPerhaps we'll have to hunt down the applicants.  I only hope they are prepared.11:57
persiaNone are in-channel now :(11:57
elkyhew is online in -au11:59
elkybut... i have no idea who he is :-/11:59
persiaI've seen Hew in #ubuntu-bugs a fair bit.11:59
TheMusoHe appears to be in #ubuntu-motu also.11:59
persiaOK.  Any ideas for lousyguara or svaksha?12:00
elkypersia, i havent seen svaksha for age12:00
amachusvaksha appear to have some time problem12:01
persiaNor I lousygarua, although it used to be often.12:01
elkyshe's been on freenode for the whole of 20 seconds this month afaict12:01
amachuHew is in #ubuntu-au12:02
elkyamachu, hew is here now12:02
amachuHew: Hey :-)12:02
HewHi everyone12:02
TheMusoEvening he.12:03
TheMusoevening Hew.12:03
amachuHew: are you prepared for today?12:03
amachuSorry for the confusion, the wiki states 01-Oct-0812:03
HewYes, that is confusing :P12:03
HewI am prepared nonetheless12:03
amachuas per routine its tueday, today12:03
Hewah, ok12:04
amachuthats great...12:04
amachupersia: elky: TheMuso: persia: shall we start then..12:04
TheMusoamachu: Yes, lets.12:04
amachuHew: Sorry for the confusion again. Please go ahead introducing yourself and your contributions for Ubuntu..12:05
elkyyes, waiting12:05
HewNo worries. I'm Hew McLachlan from Sydney. I've been using Ubuntu since Dapper and have been contributing in various areas since the beginning of this year.12:06
HewI've mainly been involved with bug triage. I started in the Ubuntu BugSquad and I'm now a member of Ubuntu Bug Control.12:07
HewI believe I've made a significant contribution to Ubuntu through the number and quality of bugs I have triaged, as well as the other areas I've been involved in such as support and reporting bugs, and recently, en_AU translations.12:09
HewI started cleaning up packages like xsane which had been neglected for a long time and were full of New/Undecided bugs, so that gave me a good start in learning how to triage from the bottom up.12:11
amachuthat great that you file five bugs  a day. Apart from that would like to know your association with Austraian LoCo too..12:12
HewI haven't had much to do with the Australia LoCo, apart from making the occasional passing comment in #ubuntu-au about a discussion.12:13
HewI'm most active in #ubuntu-bugs12:13
persiaHew: You mention a long-term goal of having Ubuntu be 100% free software.  Do you think this is best pursued through work to free existing software, or to find replacement software?12:14
Hewpersia: A combination of both. If you look at the AMD/ATI situation, they are now developing over source drivers themselves which is a great success for FOSS. It will be hard to do the same with Nvidia, but by developing open source 3D Nvidia drivers I think will put pressure on Nvidia to produce something themselves.12:16
persiaHew: Have you been involved in any of these discussions?12:17
Hewpersia: Not as part of Ubuntu, no. I keep an eye on what's happening and discuss it offline though. I would be interested in getting involved and having a say.12:19
HewI'm not a developer so I don't really have technical solutions to these problems.12:19
amachuelky: TheMuso: questions?12:21
TheMusoNot from me.12:21
amachuand Hew do you have people here for you?12:22
elkyHew, have you considered getting into packaging at all?12:22
elkywhups, sorry amachu12:22
Hewamachu: No I don't.12:23
Hewelky: Yes I have. I submitted a patch to a debian/control file for prboom.12:23
elkyis that part of a larger plan?12:24
Hewelky: I've also played around with pbuilder and looked through the MOTU contributing wiki pages12:24
Hewelky: Yes, I've thought about maybe joining backports or something12:24
Hewelky: I think I've got my name on a couple of packages in Intrepid12:25
elkywhich ones?12:25
Hewelky: hmm, fretsonfire from memory..12:25
* Hew has a quick look12:26
persiaHew: Given the packages for which you've submitted patches, if you are interested in development, you may also want to get in touch with the Games team.12:26
Hewpersia: Yea, I'm able to do things like modifying the debian/control files, but C coding is a bit over my head for now. I'll look into it :-)12:27
Hewfretsonfire 1.2.512.dfsg-3 has my name as Changed-By12:29
amachuand elky appear to be in your time zone ;-)12:29
TheMusoAs am I.12:29
Hewand same with game-data-packager 18 :P That's the two.12:29
amachuis lifeless there?12:30
elkyamachu, unfortunately there is only vague familiarity with the nick from him sitting in the loco channel. other than that i dont really know anything about hew12:30
elkyamachu, lifeless is idle 35 minutes12:32
persiaWell, I always like testmonials or support from other members, which we don't have today.  I'm tempted to +1 based on at least three months of activity within ubuntu-bugcontrol, and some previous activity, and I like the work with en_au translations, but I'm still a little borderline.12:32
persiaCould others who use en_AU comment on how useful it is to have en_AU fully translated?12:33
amachuHew: is it because that you are here today12:33
amachuand you couldn't bring people to support, since the wiki said its tomorrow?12:33
TheMusopersia: I must admit I don't really pay attention to translations, at it usually comes down to slight differences in spelling, so don't bother checking.12:34
elkypersia, from my understanding of en_au, it's only a matter of small differences such as trash/rubbish/garbage12:34
elkyand location names possibly12:35
Hewamachu: No, I don't have specific people for support. I generally just ask questions to the channel and give answers back.12:35
persiaHmm.  I'm maybe +0.6 then.  With a couple testimonials, or cheerleaders, I'd be +1.12:35
Hewen_AU translations aren't that important I guess, but see "color" all the time annoys me ;-)12:36
persiaThe work is good, and it's both significant and sustained, but the involvement with other individuals in the community seems unsupported (it may be present, but it's not currently visible from available information).12:36
james_wI find Hew to be an active and skilled bug triager, and he is a valuable member of that community.12:37
persiaRIght.  +1 from me then.12:37
james_wsorry I'm late :-)12:37
Hewjames_w: Thank you :-)12:37
amachuHew: +1 from me too12:38
amachuand elky, TheMuso?12:38
TheMusoKnowing that it takes some work to become a good bug triager, and having heard a testimonial from james_w about Hew's work, Im +1 as well.12:39
elkyi'm +0. while i'm pleased with 3 months of 5-a day, I believe that 4 months is too quick a time to be considered sustained.12:40
elky(4 mths being first team join)12:40
amachuTheMuso: also for getting prepared immediatly knowing its today and not tomorrow..12:40
TheMusoamachu: What about it?12:41
amachuTheMuso: I added one more reason sticking to yours :-)12:41
persiaelky: What do you think is a sensible time guideline?  I'm still operating against the two-month guideline from long ago.12:41
amachuelky: any other reason other than the duration of involvement?12:43
amachuelky: there?12:45
elkypersia, i consider 6 months to be sustained. 2 months goes past in a blink. amachu im not really sure, to be honest.12:45
persiaelky: OK.  And from first team join?  (Looks like 2008-05-03 in this case)12:46
persiaOr from first restricted team join?12:46
amachuelky: its true that 2-3 months goes in a blink..12:50
amachuthe contributions from Hew are promising, I feel12:50
persiaAlthough 2-3 months is the guideline listed at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership12:50
elkyamachu, which is why i'm reserving now. it's borderline12:50
persiaIf that's not the guideline we use, the page ought be updated.12:51
elkypersia, if we're just here to check boxes then why have multiple of us. i was asked my opinion and i gave it.12:51
persiaelky: I'm not arguing with your opinion.  I'm not asking you to change it.12:52
persiaI also think 2 months is very short.  I'm just trying to understand what seems right, and make sure that applicants are receiving appropriate guidance.12:52
amachupersia: elky: I hope, then 3:1 should favour Hew, which all of us will agree.12:53
amachuwith a note to Hew to take elky's observations carefully and contribute continuosly12:53
elkyamachu, that's democracy. im not going to argue you in to changing your opinions, which is why i'm perplexed we're persisting the point12:53
persiaRight.  We ought discuss it at some point.  For those of us who find two months fast, it may be sensible to talk with other RMBs and maybe the CC to determine if that remains the right guidance.12:54
elkythis is now an hour since we started, too.12:55
persiaHew: In addition to your bug triage work, I'd encourage you to get involved with the rather active ubuntu-au crowd: there's a fair bit going on there.12:55
persiaelky: Sure.  Next week works for me.12:55
Hewpersia: Will do, I'll speak up more and find out what's going on.12:55
persiaamachu: Could we add that to the agenda: whether the current guidance of two months is sufficient?12:56
amachufine then. Let me welcome Hew and ask him to take into consideration elky's observation12:56
amachupersia: yes.12:56
amachupersia: should we add that to our agenda? or CC's?12:56
Hewamachu: Thanks! I will stay active and look at other areas I can become involved in.12:57
persiaI'm not tempted to add it to CC just because I don't have more than a weak feeling that 2 months can be very quick.  If someone else wants to present, that would be fine.12:57
elkywell, neither cc timing fits me12:57
persiaIf we add it to ours, either we can collect discussion items to present to the CC, or decide most of us don't have the feeling elky and I share, and defer it.12:58
amachui will check that and share it in the mailing list12:58
persiaelky: Not even the one that conflicts with this meeting?12:58
elkypersia, well no, i often make use of the extra meeting-free evenin12:58
persiaelky: Heh.  I can well understand that :)12:59
amachupersia: We will add it to our agenda first.13:00
amachuand discuss next week.. later depending on availabity of any one of us we shall take it to CC13:00
amachuI will also inform Arc Riley that the meeting is not tomorrow and its next week...13:01
amachuHew: Welcome againg and looking forward to a continuos contribution from you with more involvement with LoCo team :-)13:02
persiaOK.  We're done then?13:02
amachupersia: I hope so. Is there anything else?13:02
amachuTheMuso: ??13:03
amachuelky: ?13:03
=== davmor2 is now known as davmor2-lunch
Hewamachu, persia, elky, TheMuso, james_w: Thanks everyone, I look forward to contributing!13:03
amachuelky: are you there?13:03
amachuHew: Keep rocking :-)13:04
elkyamachu, yep13:04
amachuelky: shall we wind up for the day?13:05
TheMusoThanks folks.13:05
amachuthank you every one for participating.13:05
amachuour next meeting will be on 07 Oct 0813:06
elkysure it's the 7th?13:06
TheMusoYes its the 7th.13:06
amachuelky: yes13:06
* elky ducks13:06
leoquant@schedule amsterdam13:07
ubottuSchedule for Europe/Amsterdam: 30 Sep 21:00: LoCo Council | 01 Oct 19:00: QA Team | 02 Oct 00:00: Platform Team | 02 Oct 02:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 02 Oct 14:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 02 Oct 15:00: Desktop Team13:07
=== davmor2-lunch is now known as davmor2
ubottuSchedule for Etc/UTC: 30 Sep 19:00: LoCo Council | 01 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 01 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 02 Oct 00:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 02 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 02 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team15:54
freeflying@schedule shanghai15:55
ubottuSchedule for Asia/Shanghai: 01 Oct 03:00: LoCo Council | 02 Oct 01:00: QA Team | 02 Oct 06:00: Platform Team | 02 Oct 08:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 02 Oct 20:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 02 Oct 21:00: Desktop Team15:55
zul@schedule montreal15:57
ubottuSchedule for America/Montreal: 30 Sep 15:00: LoCo Council | 01 Oct 13:00: QA Team | 01 Oct 18:00: Platform Team | 01 Oct 20:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 02 Oct 08:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 02 Oct 09:00: Desktop Team15:57
* mathiaz waves15:59
sommerhey all15:59
kirkland* dendrobates is a siamese twin?16:01
kirklandand *soren is holding a bong?16:01
mathiazall right - let's get started16:01
MootBotMeeting started at 10:01. The chair is mathiaz.16:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:01
sorenkirkland: Maybe.16:02
sorenkirkland: :P16:02
mathiazToday's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting16:02
nealmcbI thought dendrobates had spiked sideburns16:02
mathiazPrevious meeting minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/2008092316:02
mathiaz[TOPIC] Ubuntu vm builder16:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Ubuntu vm builder16:02
mathiazsoren: what's new there ?16:03
sorenNew version uploaded with lots fixes in it.16:03
sorenNo big news, I'm afraid.16:03
mathiaznijaba: how is the tutorial update going ?16:03
nijabamathiaz: I just completed it, fixing/finding a few bugs as I go16:04
mathiazsoren: IIRC you've added xen support to vmbuilder16:04
nijabamathiaz: but I think that, apart from a few changes, the general content is there and I'd love to get some feedback16:04
mathiazsoren: do you have access to a xen environment to do the testing ?16:04
mathiaznijaba: url ?16:05
sorenmathiaz: That was weeks ago, though.16:05
sorenmathiaz: Yes, I have Xen running inside a KVM instance :)16:05
zulsoren: scarey16:05
nijabahas not changed: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/JeOSVMBuilder16:05
sorenmathiaz: zul and I have been trying to get Xenner to be useful, but it's not working out very well.16:05
sorenXenner is a twisted version of KVM that can run Xen paravirt instances.16:06
zulxen built ontop of kvm16:06
mathiazsoren: is there support for vmware in vmbuilder ?16:06
zulsoren: a version of it will be in the next version of xen16:06
sorenIt's rather... umm... interesting *cough*.16:06
sorenmathiaz: There is, yes.16:06
mathiazsoren: do you have access to vmware environment to test it ?16:07
nijababut no virtual box yet, I think that's the main one missing16:07
sorenmathiaz: Nope.16:07
nijaba(even though it is not a priority)16:07
sorennijaba: Right. Someone asked me about that yesterday.16:07
mathiazsoren: are all product of vmware supported ?16:08
mathiazsoren: like ESX, -server, etc... ?16:08
sorennijaba: I told him that if he could explain how to turn a set of raw images and some settings (amount of ram, cpu's, etc.) into a vbox instance, I'd be happy to implement it.16:08
sorennijaba: We'll see how it goes.16:08
sorenmathiaz: I forget the details right now.16:08
sorenmathiaz: It should support whatever ubuntu-vm-builder supported.16:09
sorenIf it doesn't, that's a bug that needs fixing.16:09
nijabamathiaz: I am not sure we can support ESX fully with what qemu-img offers16:09
mathiazsoren: ok - anyway testing in vmware product is welcome.16:09
nijabamathiaz: was the same for uvb16:09
mathiaznijaba: ok.16:09
mathiazit may be usefull to figure out which products/technologies are supported by vm-builder.16:10
nijabaplayer, workstation and server. For esx, it needs a manual conversion IIRC16:10
nijabatools are provided by VMware16:11
mathiaznijaba: thanks.16:11
mathiaz[TOPIC] Review ServerGuide for Intrepid16:11
MootBotNew Topic:  Review ServerGuide for Intrepid16:11
mathiazsommer: did you update the virtualization section16:11
sommermathiaz: I added a couple of lines about xen, but I'm not sure it's quite where it needs to be16:12
sommermathiaz: it'll be updated by SF though16:12
nijabasommer: pointer to what you added?16:13
mathiazzul: could you take a look at the seciont ?16:13
mathiazzul: could you take a look at the virtualization section ?16:13
zulmathiaz: yep16:13
sommernijaba: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/ubuntu-vm-builder.html16:13
mathiazzul: ^^16:13
mathiaz[ACTION] zul to do review of the virtualization of the server guide.16:14
MootBotACTION received:  zul to do review of the virtualization of the server guide.16:14
mathiazsommer: nijaba: shouldn't the JeOS section be removed ?16:14
nijabamathiaz: or updated using what I just produced on the wiki?16:15
dendrobatesmathiaz: or changed.16:15
mathiazor at least updated as there won't be JeOS iso16:15
mathiazdendrobates: IIUC JeOS is now an option in the -server iso16:15
sorenThat's the idea, yes.16:15
nijabamathiaz: or an option in vmbuilder16:15
mathiazhow do you get to install a JeOS from -server ?16:16
nijaba(as soon as we find a virtual kernel for intrpid)16:16
nijabamathiaz: press F4 at first screen16:16
mathiazwhich kernel flavour is currently installed ?16:17
nijabafor some reason, there is no linux-image-virtual kernel available in intrepid ATM16:17
mathiazsince -virtual doesn't exist16:17
sorenSure it does.16:17
nijabamathiaz: -server16:17
sorenI've filed a bug against linux-meta about the missing linux{,-image}-virtual packages.16:17
dendrobatessoren: have you sent an email to pete about it?16:18
sorenThere *is* a virtual kernel flavour.16:18
sorendendrobates: Umm. No?16:18
nijabasoren: and is the 64bit version available as well?16:18
sorennijaba: Yes.16:18
nijabaso the only thinkg misssing is the meta packages....16:18
* nijaba puts too many letters...16:18
mathiazsoren: once the -virtual- packages are there, is there anything that needs to be changed in the installer to pick itup ?16:19
sorendendrobates: linux-image-2.6.27-4-virtual | 2.6.27-4.6 | intrepid/universe | amd64, i38616:19
sorenWhoops, that wasn't for dendrobates.16:19
sorenWhuh... Universe?16:19
nijabamathiaz: some server-ship seeding?16:19
sorenYeah, we need to seed it.16:19
mathiazsoren: since as of now -server is installed in Jeos16:19
sorenIt needs seeding, but first a metapackage.16:20
mathiazsoren: right - and the installer will automatically choose it16:20
sorenmathiaz: Erm.. No.16:20
sorenmathiaz: Not the -virtual kernel.16:20
dendrobatesI want to make sure someone looks at the bug.16:20
mathiazsoren: ok - so -virtual- needs to be seeded + the installer has to be modified.16:21
sorenmathiaz: I'm working on a "detect which virtual environment I'm in, if any" utility.16:21
sorenI'm going to get that added to base-installer for Jaunty.16:21
mathiazsoren: for intrepid or beyond ?16:21
sorenmathiaz: I'm not sure about changing the installer.16:21
sorenThe option you get in isn't called "JeOS". It's called "Minimal install".16:22
mathiazsoren: ok - so that means we still need to fix or at least look into the JeOS option for the intrepid installer16:22
sorenWhich, apart from the kernel choice, is the same thing.16:22
nijabasoren, in fact, it is not a real JeOS iso replacement...16:22
soren..but it's preseedable, which was the original requirement (back in the gutsy days).16:22
sorennijaba: -v16:22
nijabaWell, the JeOS iso would install the -virtual kernel by default, so picking minimal install is not a replacement for it16:23
mathiaznijaba: so the minimal install for -server intrepid isos installs the same set of packages than JeOS ?16:24
mathiaznijaba: what's missing is the -virtual- kernel packages for now ?16:25
sorennijaba: That's what I just said?16:25
soren15:22:19 < soren> Which, apart from the kernel choice, is the same thing.16:25
sorenmathiaz: Yes, apart from the kernel, the choice of packages is (or should be) the same.16:25
mathiazsoren: ok.16:26
mathiazlet's move on.16:26
mathiazsommer: anything else on the server guide ?16:26
sommerso the jeos section needs updated, and probably the installation section?16:26
mathiazsommer: I've given you some feedback on the ldap serction16:26
sommermathiaz: yep... still need to adjust that16:26
dendrobatesmathiaz: did you give sommer feedback on the support section, that we discussed?16:27
sommermathiaz: was the ldapadd instead of slapadd the only thing?16:27
mathiazsommer: not yet16:27
mathiazdendrobates: not yet.16:27
dendrobatesmathiaz: you had wanted some changes, that I agreed with.16:27
mathiaz[ACTION] mathiaz to update the support section of the server guide16:28
MootBotACTION received:  mathiaz to update the support section of the server guide16:28
mathiazsommer: yes16:28
sommermathiaz: cool16:28
mathiazsommer: I still wanna go through the rest of the section and test it.16:28
mathiazsommer: there are some sub-sections about replication and so on.16:28
mathiazsommer: I wonder if it's too advanced for the server guide.16:29
sommermathiaz: ya, cn=config does add some more complexity16:29
mathiazsommer: we could probably mention that it exists and point to the openldap guide16:29
mathiazsommer: upstream documentation is good16:29
sommermathiaz: I think it's pretty important to have replication in... having only a single LDAP server on a network is sort of scary16:30
mathiaz[ACTION] sommer to update the JeOS and installation section16:31
MootBotACTION received:  sommer to update the JeOS and installation section16:31
mathiazsommer: right - IIRC upstream documentation may lack some real world ldif files to setup replication.16:31
mathiazsommer: I'll go through the section and test it16:31
sommermathiaz: ya, and it's not really very clear on adding schema ldif files16:32
mathiazsommer: anything else ?16:32
sommermathiaz: I think that's it16:32
mathiazsommer: great - thanks !16:32
mathiaz[TOPIC] nagios3 in main16:32
MootBotNew Topic:  nagios3 in main16:32
mathiazKoon: ^^ ?16:32
mathiazKoon: I think it's fixed now ?16:32
Koonmathiaz: I posted the MIR, which wasn't really needed, then nagios3 was promoted16:33
Koonand you added it to the server-ship seed16:33
mathiazand it's on the -server cd now ! :D16:33
mathiaznijaba: yes16:33
* nijaba wonders why, but fine16:33
mathiaznijaba: nagios2 was there16:34
nijabamathiaz: ah, makes sense then16:34
sorenWell, it wasn't, actually.16:34
mathiaznijaba: I've just s/nagios2/nagios3/16:34
soren..but that was a mistake :)16:34
Koonsoren: tss16:34
mathiaz[TOPIC] Ubuntu Server survey16:34
MootBotNew Topic:  Ubuntu Server survey16:34
mathiaznijaba: how is it going ?16:34
nijabait is doing great16:35
nijabamore than 2000 full replies so far16:35
mathiaznijaba: when do you plan to close the survey ?16:35
nijabawe get about 1/3 of the respondant that do not complete the survey, but that was expected16:35
nijabamathiaz: result will be published before UDS, so I intend to close it last week of november16:36
* nijaba looking for people knowing how to use a SPSS type tool16:36
mathiaznijaba: seems that the marketing plan is working well.16:36
nijabamathiaz: yes, it is.16:37
mathiazanyone that wants to blog about it is welcome.16:37
nijabathere are also some items left to do in the launch plan16:37
mathiazit was announced last thursday - and there is a digg link IIRC16:37
nijabayes, but that is not getting too much digging16:37
kirklandplease splat the digg link here, now16:37
kirklandi'll digg+1 it :-)16:38
MootBotLINK received:  http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Server_survey_launched16:38
nealmcbnijaba: I've played with R in the past - very powerful, if confusing.  scipy also does a lot16:38
kirklandi'll blog something too16:39
nijabanealmcb: are you voluntering to help on the analysis?16:39
mathiaz[ACTION] kirkland to blog about the server survey16:39
MootBotACTION received:  kirkland to blog about the server survey16:39
* nealmcb gets a digg in16:40
nealmcbnijaba: yes16:40
* nijaba hugs nealmcb16:40
nealmcbI'm not an expert with stats or surveys, but will do what I can16:40
mathiaznijaba: great - anything else on the survey ?16:40
mathiaz[TOPIC] Beta Freeze16:41
=== alex3f is now known as alex3f[ubuntu-ro
MootBotNew Topic:  Beta Freeze16:41
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mathiazso we're in beta freeze and the -server isos for beta have been produced.16:41
mathiazhttp://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ is used to track the tests.16:41
MootBotLINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ is used to track the tests.16:41
* ivoks o/16:41
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mathiazon a related note, partman-auto-raid has been promoted to main and is now available on the iso16:42
zulwhat does that do again?16:42
mathiazso preseeded installs can now setup a RAID system16:42
mathiazIt requires some testing though.16:43
ivoksiirc, it is usable16:43
ivoksat least it was when i worked on that... a year ago (or more) :)16:43
mathiazivoks: well - it has never been tested in ubuntu.16:43
mathiazivoks: It works in debian.16:44
nijabaan is the option to have a sane boot degraded mode preseedable as well?16:44
sorenYes. It's been the default for years.16:44
mathiaznijaba: kirkland implemented it - he should know about it.16:45
kirklandmathiaz: sadly, i have little experience with preseeding, so I don't know16:46
nijabakirkland: is it a debconf question?16:46
kirklandnijaba: yup16:46
sorenkirkland: presseding means answering debconf questions ahead of time.16:46
ivokskirkland: you are so lucky... :)16:46
nijabaso it should work fine16:46
mathiazkirkland: ok - so it's preseedable.16:46
sorenFor bonus points, someone should tweak kickseed to handle this..16:47
* nealmcb pats kirkland on the back16:47
ivoksthat shouldn't be too hard16:47
nijabasoren: err... kickstart?16:47
ivoksno, seed16:47
ivokskickstart doesn't know anything about preseeding16:47
mathiaznijaba: kickseed is the name of the kickstart implementation for the Ubuntu installer16:47
nijabaivoks: yup, but you can add preseeds to it16:48
sorennijaba: kickseed is an installer component that lets you pass a kickstart file to d-i and then it translates it into the corresponding preseed values.16:48
* nijaba used it without know its name...16:48
mathiazivoks: kickseed has a hook to add preseed command in the kickstart file16:48
* nijaba confirms that it is VERY usefull16:49
ivoksok... i always used kickstart file + preseed file - i guess i'm outdated :)16:49
mathiazso if you've got some spare server hardware, testing the -server iso for Beta is more than welcome!16:50
mathiazBeta is schedule for Thursday.16:50
ivoksok :)16:51
mathiaz[TOPIC] Open Discussion16:51
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Discussion16:51
mathiazanyone wants to add anything ?16:51
ivoksam i allowed to twist arms of kernel team?16:51
ivokswe have very broken drbd implementation in intrepid16:52
mathiazivoks: on your behalf or on behalf of the server team ?16:52
ivoksthis requires changes in kernel and new user space tools16:52
ivokswell, server team16:52
nijabagreat calendar to add for the up to date release schedule: http://people.ubuntu.com/~vorlon/UbuntuReleaseSchedule.ics16:52
ivoksthe thing is that we have to ship release candidate of drbd 2.8.716:52
mathiazivoks: what is required on the kernel side ?16:52
ivokssince stable release doesn't work on 2.6.27, and changes are huge16:53
mathiazivoks: do you have a bug number?16:53
ivoksthis also means that we'll have user space tools from debian experimental16:53
ivoksbug #27125416:54
ubottuLaunchpad bug 271254 in drbd8 "drbd doesn't start: "No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?" but module is loaded" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27125416:54
ivoksi've been working on this for last 3-4 days and i have a working solution - drbd 2.8.7~rc116:54
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/0001-UBUNTU-drbd-New-upstream-prerelease-2.8.7-rc1.patch16:55
ivoksthis is a patch for kernel16:55
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mathiazivoks: I'm confused by the version numbers.16:55
zuli had a look at the kernel patch and it looks fine to me16:55
mathiazivoks: 2.8.7 or 8.2.7 ?16:55
zulmathiaz: 8.2.716:55
ivokssorry, my mistake16:55
ivoksi'll fix that16:55
mathiazivoks: as of now, 8.2.6 doesn't work in 2.6.27 ?16:56
ivoksopensuse has the same problem16:56
nealmcbivoks: thanks for figuring all that out!16:56
mathiazivoks: could it be possible to fix 8.2.6 ?16:56
mathiazivoks: or 8.2.7 is the only viable option ?16:56
zulbasically what happened is that we have 8.0.12 in the archive and the kernel has 8.2.6 which doesnt work well together and if you use 8.2.6. kernel/user then it wont work as well16:57
ivoksmathiaz: i've looked at commit, for which drbd guys say that fixes the issue16:57
ivoksit simply depends on too many changes to just go cherry picking16:57
ivoksin my opinoion, 8.2.7 is a way to go16:58
mathiazzul: ok - so 8.2.6 is broken - 8.2.7rc1 works16:58
zulmathiaz: yes16:58
mathiazivoks: could the kernel be downgraded to 8.0.12 ?16:59
ivoksi haven't tested 8.0.12 with 2.6.1716:59
zulmathiaz: Ive talked to kernel guys about that before I got ivoks involved and they didnt think it was a good idea16:59
mathiazright - so it seems that 8.2.7rc1 is the best option as the current situation is broken17:00
nealmcbzul: and thanks to you too...  looks like it might be one of those costs of going with the 2.6.27 kernel17:01
ivokswe can do this changes after beta is out...17:01
mathiazivoks: do you have 8.2.7 tools in a ppa ?17:01
dendrobatesivoks: is there a bug #17:01
ivoksnealmcb: yes, it's exactly that...17:01
mathiazdendrobates: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/drbd8/+bug/27125417:01
ubottuLaunchpad bug 271254 in drbd8 "drbd doesn't start: "No response from the DRBD driver! Is the module loaded?" but module is loaded" [High,Confirmed]17:01
ivoksmathiaz: no, but i'm working on it... upstream alredy provides debian/, so i'll just compare to our and debian source17:01
mathiazivoks: you've mentionned debian experimental.17:02
ivoksmathiaz: debian experimental has 8.2.617:02
mathiazivoks: I think the key point here is to have the tools in a PPA so that we can show that 8.2.7 is working correctly.17:02
ivoksmathiaz: i agree17:02
ivoksmathiaz: i have 8.2.6 in my ppa, but i'll move it to 8.2.7 today17:03
mathiazivoks: excellent. then once we're out of beta, we can update the kernel.17:03
mathiazivoks: IIUC you've also the kernel part ready ?17:03
mathiazivoks: ie a git branch ready ?17:04
ivoksmathiaz: correct17:04
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/0001-UBUNTU-drbd-New-upstream-prerelease-2.8.7-rc1.patch17:04
zulivoks: just send the patch off to the kernel-t-eam mailing list is is the proper procedure17:04
mathiazivoks: zul: is it possible to upload a modified kernel to a PPA ?17:04
ivokswhy not?17:04
mathiazivoks: I don't know - that's why I'm asking :D17:05
zulmathiaz: it can be done sure...17:05
ivoksif not, i can setup archive outside ppa17:05
mathiazivoks: to point is to get wider testing ASAP17:05
mathiazivoks: KernelFreeze will be in two weeks for Intrepid.17:05
ivoksi know17:05
mathiazivoks: so we won't have that many uploads to test/fix things.17:05
ivokssorry, i didn't have time untill a week ago :(17:05
zulmathiaz: its best to send off the patch asap17:05
mathiazzul: ok17:06
ivokszul: with fixed typo17:06
mathiaz[ACTION] ivoks to send the drbd patch to the ubuntu-kernel mailing list17:06
MootBotACTION received:  ivoks to send the drbd patch to the ubuntu-kernel mailing list17:06
zulivoks: yep17:06
mathiaz[ACTION] ivoks to upload 8.2.7 tools to a PPA17:07
MootBotACTION received:  ivoks to upload 8.2.7 tools to a PPA17:07
mathiazivoks: ^^ that will help for sponsoring17:07
ivoksand kernel source17:07
ivoksi know17:07
ivokseasier to track changes17:08
mathiazivoks: excellent ! Thanks for the good work17:08
mathiazAnything else to add ?17:08
ivoksyes :)17:08
ivoksbacula :)17:08
ivoksbacula in hardy isn't in very good shape17:08
ivokswe've missed a .1 release cause of one bug17:09
ivoksupstream claims that bug is fixed, but our bug reporter claims it isn't17:09
mathiazivoks: .1 - you mean 8.04.1 ?17:09
mathiazivoks: well - we can still fix things in hardy.17:09
ivokswhat's the procedure if our bug reporter doesn't reply to bug report, while upstream claims that bug is fixed?17:10
nijabaivoks: I would tend to beleive waht kern said and check if the 2 patches he mentioned were actually applied17:10
ivokssince, for SRU, we need validation-confirmed17:10
ivoksand there's no one to confirm it :)17:10
mathiazivoks: what's the bug number ?17:10
ivoksjust a second...17:11
mathiazivoks: for SRU we also need a test case - so that we can reproduce it17:11
ivoksbug #22761317:11
ubottuLaunchpad bug 227613 in bacula "[SRU] SIGSEGV in bacula-fd" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22761317:11
mathiazivoks: hm - it seems that we have test case that is repoducable17:13
mathiazivoks: zul: were you able to reproduce it or not ?17:14
ivokswell, it just seems17:14
ivoksneither can i or upstream reproduce this bug :)17:14
zulmathiaz: no i wasnt17:14
mathiazivoks: well - in that case, we can only rely on the reporter or one of the tester.17:15
ivoksand the bug reporter on bacula's buglist confirmed that this patch solved the issue17:15
mathiazivoks: ok - it seems that it's a corner case though17:16
ivoksok, so we wait for bug reporter to confirm it is fixed?17:16
mathiazivoks: in this case we rely on the rporter17:16
mathiazivoks: yes - I'd proceed that way.17:16
ivoksthat's what i tought... :)17:17
mathiazok - we're over time now.17:17
mathiazAnything else ?17:17
mathiaz[TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time17:18
MootBotNew Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time17:18
mathiaznext week, same time, same place ?17:18
sommerworks for me17:18
mathiazgreat - so see ya all next week, same time, here.17:19
mathiazhappy beta testing all !17:19
MootBotMeeting finished at 11:19.17:19
sommerthanks mathiaz, later on all17:19
* soren kicks Mootbot into a resonable timezone17:19
soren11:19... pffffft!17:20
nealmcbsoren: yeah - us central time - huh....17:20
nealmcbnow mountain time - that would be good :)17:21
* soren shakes his head in disbelief17:26
sorenSwatch internet time.17:27
alex3f[ubuntu-ro18:26 CET17:27
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juliux@schedule berlin19:05
ubottuSchedule for Europe/Berlin: 30 Sep 21:00: LoCo Council | 01 Oct 19:00: QA Team | 02 Oct 00:00: Platform Team | 02 Oct 02:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 02 Oct 14:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 02 Oct 15:00: Desktop Team19:05
boredandbloggingjuliux: might be a bit late for the meeting19:15
juliuxboredandblogging: hm?19:15
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: LoCo Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 01 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 02 Oct 00:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 02 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 02 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team
=== GiorgosL is now known as GiorgosL[GR]
GiorgosL[GR]hello everyone19:52
juliuxhi GiorgosL[GR]19:53
juliuxpopey: boredandblogging ping19:53
juliuxhi elendil19:54
juliuxwelcome to the lococouncil meeting we are waiting atm for more council members20:00
Ow1OK. I'm here for representing Romanian LoCo team. Did we qualify for this meeting?20:01
manuelciosicihey Ow120:01
juliuxhi Ow1 yes you are on the agenda20:01
boredandbloggingi'm in a meeting20:06
juliuxhi boredandblogging20:06
juliuxboredandblogging: do you hear anything form popey, janc oder effi?20:06
juliuxpopey: =20:06
leoquantjanc or janC?20:07
juliuxähh JanC ;)20:07
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juliuxi am sorry but i think we have to cancle the meeting we have no quorum to approv locoteams and nxvl isn´t here for his issue20:18
juliuxas somebody something else, which is urgent?20:18
DoruHushjuliux: it is canceled forever?20:19
juliuxDoruHush: not for ever but for today20:19
DoruHushor for an other date?20:19
juliuxDoruHush: we will announce the next meeting soon20:19
juliuxi am sorry20:19
manuelciosiciwell, see you next time:)20:20
alex3fsee ya20:20
elendilbye for now - have a good day/night/whatever ;)20:21
GiorgosL[GR]ok byeby20:21
popeytoo late - sorry20:28
DoruHushI'm still here20:29
juliuxhey popey20:29
juliuxpopey: we canceld the meeting, but if you and boredandblogging have time we can do some points;)20:30
popeyemail issues, now resolved, didnt realise we had a meeting today20:30
popeyi can be around for the next 30 mins, yes20:30
simosxcan we have a word as to who where missing from the meeting (and it got cancelled)? As in 'from the six council members, only four attended', or something like that.20:30
popeyi was missing simosx and by the look of it so was JanC20:31
juliuxsimosx: ?20:31
juliuxsimosx: there where only 2/5 of the council so we had no quorum20:32
juliuxpopey: is next week bevor the cc meeting working for you? so same time same day next week20:32
current88by all20:32
popeyyes juliux20:32
juliuxgood so we have the next lococouncil next week20:33
juliuxpopey: boredandblogging will send out all the mails;)20:34
nxvli'm still on time?20:45
nxvlor i am too late?20:45
Ow1too late20:46
Ow1al least for loco council20:46
Ow1but you are on time for the next meeting20:46
nxvli need to get some thing discussed with the LoCo Council20:47
nxvlboredandblogging: still here?20:47
nxvlpopey: ?20:47
nxvlpopey: i got the times wrong and i think is too late for the meeting?20:48
popeyi did too20:48
Ow1well guy, I also wrote an email on the loco-contact maillinglist20:49
Ow1and I am disapointed by this meeting20:49
Ow1and how did you prepare this meeting20:50
nxvlnah, LoCo council rocks20:50
nxvlis just that i completely forgot about the meeting20:50
Ow1it may be.20:50
Ow1but for now the loco council proves me that they don't treat the problems with sufficient seriosity20:51
nxvlactually they do20:51
Ow1no hard feelling.20:51
Ow1it's just my feedback20:51
popeyI'm sorry you feel that way Ow1, it's my fault I wasnt here on time, I apologise20:52
Ow1I accept your apology20:52
Ow1and as I said, I don't have bad feeling for any of you guys20:52
persiaOw1: What problem isn't being treated seriously?  If there's something that's critical, it can often be discussed over email between meetings.20:52
Ow1the presence problem20:53
juliuxOw1: what is your actual problem? most of the loco council members are 24/7/365 on irc and our mailbox is open for you allways20:53
Ow1you get me wrong20:53
juliuxOw1: and we will have the next meeting next week20:53
juliuxOw1: same day same time only one week later20:54
Ow1juliux: OK20:54
juliuxand we hope that we then have a quorum20:54
Ow1me too20:54
juliuxso cu next week20:55
* juliux goes to bad20:55
nxvljuliux: is there any ML i can use to discuss my topic?20:57
nxvlpopey: can i suscribe to it or it's closed?20:57
popeyif you mail to it, we will cc you in replies20:58
nxvlthat's what i thougt20:58
nxvlok, mail sended21:12
nxvlpopey: who needs to approve it?21:12
boredandbloggingnxvl: anyone on the loco-council can approve it, I approved your email21:19
* c00l2sv says hi to everyone21:22
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 01 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 01 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 02 Oct 00:30: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team | 02 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 02 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team | 02 Oct 14:00: Ubuntu Java
=== Rinchen` is now known as Rinchen

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