[11:54] <TheMuso> Hey amachu.
[11:54] <amachu> TheMuso: Hi
[11:55] <amachu> elky: persia: lifeless:
[11:55] <amachu> Hi all
[11:55] <persia> Good evening.
[11:55] <amachu> and where are zakame and belutz?
[11:55]  * persia loads the agenda
[11:55] <amachu> persia: I just dropped a mail to you :-)
[11:55] <amachu> luckily not as I feared
[11:55] <elky> hi
[11:55] <persia> amachu: Something I need to hunt down before the meeting?
[11:55] <amachu> elky: Hi
[11:56] <amachu> nope, I feared dis-conection and delay due to that
[11:56] <persia> Odd.  Although I'm sure the meeting is now, the wiki page claims it's tomorrow.
[11:56] <amachu> Oh ho!
[11:57] <TheMuso> Sounds like a date mixup.
[11:57] <amachu> TheMuso: yep!
[11:57] <persia> Yeah.  It says "01-October-2008", and it's currently "30-September-2008".
[11:57] <amachu> thats my fault
[11:57] <amachu> mixed up the date
[11:57] <TheMuso> Doesn't matter, we've put 2 and 2 together.
[11:57] <persia> Perhaps we'll have to hunt down the applicants.  I only hope they are prepared.
[11:57] <persia> None are in-channel now :(
[11:58] <amachu> :(
[11:59] <elky> hew is online in -au
[11:59] <elky> but... i have no idea who he is :-/
[11:59] <persia> I've seen Hew in #ubuntu-bugs a fair bit.
[11:59] <TheMuso> He appears to be in #ubuntu-motu also.
[12:00] <persia> OK.  Any ideas for lousyguara or svaksha?
[12:00] <elky> persia, i havent seen svaksha for age
[12:00] <elky> ages*
[12:01] <amachu> svaksha appear to have some time problem
[12:01] <amachu> hmm..
[12:01] <persia> Nor I lousygarua, although it used to be often.
[12:01] <elky> she's been on freenode for the whole of 20 seconds this month afaict
[12:02] <amachu> Hew is in #ubuntu-au
[12:02] <elky> amachu, hew is here now
[12:02] <amachu> Hew: Hey :-)
[12:02] <Hew> Hi everyone
[12:03] <TheMuso> Evening he.
[12:03] <TheMuso> evening Hew.
[12:03] <amachu> Hew: are you prepared for today?
[12:03] <amachu> Sorry for the confusion, the wiki states 01-Oct-08
[12:03] <Hew> Yes, that is confusing :P
[12:03] <Hew> I am prepared nonetheless
[12:03] <amachu> as per routine its tueday, today
[12:04] <Hew> ah, ok
[12:04] <amachu> thats great...
[12:04] <amachu> persia: elky: TheMuso: persia: shall we start then..
[12:04] <TheMuso> amachu: Yes, lets.
[12:05] <amachu> Hew: Sorry for the confusion again. Please go ahead introducing yourself and your contributions for Ubuntu..
[12:05] <elky> yes, waiting
[12:06] <Hew> No worries. I'm Hew McLachlan from Sydney. I've been using Ubuntu since Dapper and have been contributing in various areas since the beginning of this year.
[12:07] <Hew> I've mainly been involved with bug triage. I started in the Ubuntu BugSquad and I'm now a member of Ubuntu Bug Control.
[12:09] <Hew> I believe I've made a significant contribution to Ubuntu through the number and quality of bugs I have triaged, as well as the other areas I've been involved in such as support and reporting bugs, and recently, en_AU translations.
[12:11] <Hew> I started cleaning up packages like xsane which had been neglected for a long time and were full of New/Undecided bugs, so that gave me a good start in learning how to triage from the bottom up.
[12:12] <amachu> that great that you file five bugs  a day. Apart from that would like to know your association with Austraian LoCo too..
[12:13] <Hew> I haven't had much to do with the Australia LoCo, apart from making the occasional passing comment in #ubuntu-au about a discussion.
[12:13] <Hew> I'm most active in #ubuntu-bugs
[12:14] <amachu> ok
[12:14] <persia> Hew: You mention a long-term goal of having Ubuntu be 100% free software.  Do you think this is best pursued through work to free existing software, or to find replacement software?
[12:16] <Hew> persia: A combination of both. If you look at the AMD/ATI situation, they are now developing over source drivers themselves which is a great success for FOSS. It will be hard to do the same with Nvidia, but by developing open source 3D Nvidia drivers I think will put pressure on Nvidia to produce something themselves.
[12:17] <persia> Hew: Have you been involved in any of these discussions?
[12:19] <Hew> persia: Not as part of Ubuntu, no. I keep an eye on what's happening and discuss it offline though. I would be interested in getting involved and having a say.
[12:19] <Hew> I'm not a developer so I don't really have technical solutions to these problems.
[12:21] <amachu> elky: TheMuso: questions?
[12:21] <TheMuso> Not from me.
[12:22] <amachu> and Hew do you have people here for you?
[12:22] <elky> Hew, have you considered getting into packaging at all?
[12:22] <elky> whups, sorry amachu
[12:23] <Hew> amachu: No I don't.
[12:23] <Hew> elky: Yes I have. I submitted a patch to a debian/control file for prboom.
[12:24] <elky> is that part of a larger plan?
[12:24] <Hew> elky: I've also played around with pbuilder and looked through the MOTU contributing wiki pages
[12:24] <Hew> elky: Yes, I've thought about maybe joining backports or something
[12:25] <Hew> elky: I think I've got my name on a couple of packages in Intrepid
[12:25] <elky> which ones?
[12:25] <Hew> elky: hmm, fretsonfire from memory..
[12:26]  * Hew has a quick look
[12:26] <persia> Hew: Given the packages for which you've submitted patches, if you are interested in development, you may also want to get in touch with the Games team.
[12:27] <Hew> persia: Yea, I'm able to do things like modifying the debian/control files, but C coding is a bit over my head for now. I'll look into it :-)
[12:29] <Hew> fretsonfire 1.2.512.dfsg-3 has my name as Changed-By
[12:29] <amachu> and elky appear to be in your time zone ;-)
[12:29] <TheMuso> As am I.
[12:29] <Hew> and same with game-data-packager 18 :P That's the two.
[12:30] <amachu> is lifeless there?
[12:30] <elky> amachu, unfortunately there is only vague familiarity with the nick from him sitting in the loco channel. other than that i dont really know anything about hew
[12:32] <elky> amachu, lifeless is idle 35 minutes
[12:32] <amachu> ok
[12:32] <persia> Well, I always like testmonials or support from other members, which we don't have today.  I'm tempted to +1 based on at least three months of activity within ubuntu-bugcontrol, and some previous activity, and I like the work with en_au translations, but I'm still a little borderline.
[12:33] <persia> Could others who use en_AU comment on how useful it is to have en_AU fully translated?
[12:33] <amachu> Hew: is it because that you are here today
[12:33] <amachu> and you couldn't bring people to support, since the wiki said its tomorrow?
[12:34] <TheMuso> persia: I must admit I don't really pay attention to translations, at it usually comes down to slight differences in spelling, so don't bother checking.
[12:34] <elky> persia, from my understanding of en_au, it's only a matter of small differences such as trash/rubbish/garbage
[12:35] <elky> and location names possibly
[12:35] <Hew> amachu: No, I don't have specific people for support. I generally just ask questions to the channel and give answers back.
[12:35] <persia> Hmm.  I'm maybe +0.6 then.  With a couple testimonials, or cheerleaders, I'd be +1.
[12:36] <Hew> en_AU translations aren't that important I guess, but see "color" all the time annoys me ;-)
[12:36] <Hew> seeing*
[12:36] <persia> The work is good, and it's both significant and sustained, but the involvement with other individuals in the community seems unsupported (it may be present, but it's not currently visible from available information).
[12:37] <james_w> I find Hew to be an active and skilled bug triager, and he is a valuable member of that community.
[12:37] <persia> RIght.  +1 from me then.
[12:37] <james_w> sorry I'm late :-)
[12:37] <Hew> james_w: Thank you :-)
[12:38] <amachu> Hew: +1 from me too
[12:38] <amachu> and elky, TheMuso?
[12:39] <TheMuso> Knowing that it takes some work to become a good bug triager, and having heard a testimonial from james_w about Hew's work, Im +1 as well.
[12:40] <elky> i'm +0. while i'm pleased with 3 months of 5-a day, I believe that 4 months is too quick a time to be considered sustained.
[12:40] <elky> (4 mths being first team join)
[12:40] <amachu> TheMuso: also for getting prepared immediatly knowing its today and not tomorrow..
[12:41] <TheMuso> amachu: What about it?
[12:41] <amachu> TheMuso: I added one more reason sticking to yours :-)
[12:41] <persia> elky: What do you think is a sensible time guideline?  I'm still operating against the two-month guideline from long ago.
[12:43] <amachu> elky: any other reason other than the duration of involvement?
[12:45] <amachu> elky: there?
[12:45] <elky> persia, i consider 6 months to be sustained. 2 months goes past in a blink. amachu im not really sure, to be honest.
[12:46] <persia> elky: OK.  And from first team join?  (Looks like 2008-05-03 in this case)
[12:46] <persia> Or from first restricted team join?
[12:50] <amachu> elky: its true that 2-3 months goes in a blink..
[12:50] <amachu> the contributions from Hew are promising, I feel
[12:50] <persia> Although 2-3 months is the guideline listed at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership
[12:50] <elky> amachu, which is why i'm reserving now. it's borderline
[12:51] <persia> If that's not the guideline we use, the page ought be updated.
[12:51] <elky> persia, if we're just here to check boxes then why have multiple of us. i was asked my opinion and i gave it.
[12:52] <persia> elky: I'm not arguing with your opinion.  I'm not asking you to change it.
[12:52] <persia> I also think 2 months is very short.  I'm just trying to understand what seems right, and make sure that applicants are receiving appropriate guidance.
[12:53] <amachu> persia: elky: I hope, then 3:1 should favour Hew, which all of us will agree.
[12:53] <amachu> with a note to Hew to take elky's observations carefully and contribute continuosly
[12:53] <elky> amachu, that's democracy. im not going to argue you in to changing your opinions, which is why i'm perplexed we're persisting the point
[12:54] <persia> Right.  We ought discuss it at some point.  For those of us who find two months fast, it may be sensible to talk with other RMBs and maybe the CC to determine if that remains the right guidance.
[12:55] <elky> this is now an hour since we started, too.
[12:55] <persia> Hew: In addition to your bug triage work, I'd encourage you to get involved with the rather active ubuntu-au crowd: there's a fair bit going on there.
[12:55] <persia> elky: Sure.  Next week works for me.
[12:55] <Hew> persia: Will do, I'll speak up more and find out what's going on.
[12:56] <persia> amachu: Could we add that to the agenda: whether the current guidance of two months is sufficient?
[12:56] <amachu> fine then. Let me welcome Hew and ask him to take into consideration elky's observation
[12:56] <amachu> persia: yes.
[12:56] <amachu> persia: should we add that to our agenda? or CC's?
[12:57] <Hew> amachu: Thanks! I will stay active and look at other areas I can become involved in.
[12:57] <persia> I'm not tempted to add it to CC just because I don't have more than a weak feeling that 2 months can be very quick.  If someone else wants to present, that would be fine.
[12:57] <elky> well, neither cc timing fits me
[12:58] <persia> If we add it to ours, either we can collect discussion items to present to the CC, or decide most of us don't have the feeling elky and I share, and defer it.
[12:58] <amachu> i will check that and share it in the mailing list
[12:58] <persia> elky: Not even the one that conflicts with this meeting?
[12:58] <elky> persia, well no, i often make use of the extra meeting-free evenin
[12:59] <persia> elky: Heh.  I can well understand that :)
[13:00] <amachu> persia: We will add it to our agenda first.
[13:00] <amachu> and discuss next week.. later depending on availabity of any one of us we shall take it to CC
[13:01] <amachu> I will also inform Arc Riley that the meeting is not tomorrow and its next week...
[13:02] <amachu> Hew: Welcome againg and looking forward to a continuos contribution from you with more involvement with LoCo team :-)
[13:02] <persia> OK.  We're done then?
[13:02] <amachu> persia: I hope so. Is there anything else?
[13:03] <amachu> TheMuso: ??
[13:03] <amachu> elky: ?
[13:03] <TheMuso> Nope.
[13:03] <Hew> amachu, persia, elky, TheMuso, james_w: Thanks everyone, I look forward to contributing!
[13:03] <amachu> elky: are you there?
[13:04] <amachu> Hew: Keep rocking :-)
[13:04] <elky> amachu, yep
[13:05] <amachu> elky: shall we wind up for the day?
[13:05] <elky> yep
[13:05] <TheMuso> Thanks folks.
[13:05] <amachu> thank you every one for participating.
[13:06] <amachu> our next meeting will be on 07 Oct 08
[13:06] <elky> sure it's the 7th?
[13:06] <TheMuso> Yes its the 7th.
[13:06] <amachu> elky: yes
[13:06] <amachu> ;-)
[13:06]  * elky ducks
[13:06] <amachu> Cheers!
[13:07] <leoquant> @schedule amsterdam
[15:54] <freeflying> @schedule
[15:55] <freeflying> @schedule shanghai
[15:57] <zul> @schedule montreal
[15:59]  * mathiaz waves
[15:59] <nealmcb> o/
[15:59] <kirkland> \o/
[15:59] <sommer> hey all
[16:00] <Koon> o/
[16:00] <zul> hello
[16:00] <dendrobates> \oo/
[16:01] <nijaba> o/
[16:01] <soren> o/&
[16:01] <kirkland> * dendrobates is a siamese twin?
[16:01] <dendrobates> yup
[16:01] <kirkland> and *soren is holding a bong?
[16:01] <mathiaz> all right - let's get started
[16:01] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is mathiaz.
[16:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:02] <soren> kirkland: Maybe.
[16:02] <soren> kirkland: :P
[16:02] <mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:02] <nealmcb> I thought dendrobates had spiked sideburns
[16:02] <mathiaz> Previous meeting minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080923
[16:02] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu vm builder
[16:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu vm builder
[16:03] <mathiaz> soren: what's new there ?
[16:03] <soren> New version uploaded with lots fixes in it.
[16:03] <soren> Erm..
[16:03] <soren> No big news, I'm afraid.
[16:03] <mathiaz> nijaba: how is the tutorial update going ?
[16:04] <nijaba> mathiaz: I just completed it, fixing/finding a few bugs as I go
[16:04] <mathiaz> soren: IIRC you've added xen support to vmbuilder
[16:04] <nijaba> mathiaz: but I think that, apart from a few changes, the general content is there and I'd love to get some feedback
[16:04] <mathiaz> soren: do you have access to a xen environment to do the testing ?
[16:05] <mathiaz> nijaba: url ?
[16:05] <soren> mathiaz: That was weeks ago, though.
[16:05] <soren> mathiaz: Yes, I have Xen running inside a KVM instance :)
[16:05] <zul> soren: scarey
[16:05] <nijaba> has not changed: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/JeOSVMBuilder
[16:05] <soren> mathiaz: zul and I have been trying to get Xenner to be useful, but it's not working out very well.
[16:05] <nijaba> Xenner?
[16:06] <soren> Xenner is a twisted version of KVM that can run Xen paravirt instances.
[16:06] <zul> xen built ontop of kvm
[16:06] <mathiaz> soren: is there support for vmware in vmbuilder ?
[16:06] <zul> soren: a version of it will be in the next version of xen
[16:06] <soren> It's rather... umm... interesting *cough*.
[16:06] <soren> mathiaz: There is, yes.
[16:07] <mathiaz> soren: do you have access to vmware environment to test it ?
[16:07] <nijaba> but no virtual box yet, I think that's the main one missing
[16:07] <soren> mathiaz: Nope.
[16:07] <nijaba> (even though it is not a priority)
[16:07] <soren> nijaba: Right. Someone asked me about that yesterday.
[16:08] <mathiaz> soren: are all product of vmware supported ?
[16:08] <mathiaz> soren: like ESX, -server, etc... ?
[16:08] <soren> nijaba: I told him that if he could explain how to turn a set of raw images and some settings (amount of ram, cpu's, etc.) into a vbox instance, I'd be happy to implement it.
[16:08] <soren> nijaba: We'll see how it goes.
[16:08] <soren> mathiaz: I forget the details right now.
[16:09] <soren> mathiaz: It should support whatever ubuntu-vm-builder supported.
[16:09] <soren> If it doesn't, that's a bug that needs fixing.
[16:09] <nijaba> mathiaz: I am not sure we can support ESX fully with what qemu-img offers
[16:09] <mathiaz> soren: ok - anyway testing in vmware product is welcome.
[16:09] <nijaba> mathiaz: was the same for uvb
[16:09] <mathiaz> nijaba: ok.
[16:10] <mathiaz> it may be usefull to figure out which products/technologies are supported by vm-builder.
[16:10] <nijaba> player, workstation and server. For esx, it needs a manual conversion IIRC
[16:11] <nijaba> tools are provided by VMware
[16:11] <mathiaz> nijaba: thanks.
[16:11] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
[16:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
[16:11] <mathiaz> sommer: did you update the virtualization section
[16:11] <mathiaz> ?
[16:12] <sommer> mathiaz: I added a couple of lines about xen, but I'm not sure it's quite where it needs to be
[16:12] <sommer> mathiaz: it'll be updated by SF though
[16:13] <nijaba> sommer: pointer to what you added?
[16:13] <mathiaz> zul: could you take a look at the seciont ?
[16:13] <mathiaz> zul: could you take a look at the virtualization section ?
[16:13] <zul> mathiaz: yep
[16:13] <sommer> nijaba: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/ubuntu-vm-builder.html
[16:13] <mathiaz> zul: ^^
[16:14] <mathiaz> [ACTION] zul to do review of the virtualization of the server guide.
[16:14] <MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to do review of the virtualization of the server guide.
[16:14] <mathiaz> sommer: nijaba: shouldn't the JeOS section be removed ?
[16:15] <nijaba> mathiaz: or updated using what I just produced on the wiki?
[16:15] <dendrobates> mathiaz: or changed.
[16:15] <mathiaz> or at least updated as there won't be JeOS iso
[16:15] <mathiaz> dendrobates: IIUC JeOS is now an option in the -server iso
[16:15] <soren> That's the idea, yes.
[16:15] <nijaba> mathiaz: or an option in vmbuilder
[16:16] <mathiaz> how do you get to install a JeOS from -server ?
[16:16] <nijaba> (as soon as we find a virtual kernel for intrpid)
[16:16] <nijaba> mathiaz: press F4 at first screen
[16:17] <mathiaz> which kernel flavour is currently installed ?
[16:17] <nijaba> for some reason, there is no linux-image-virtual kernel available in intrepid ATM
[16:17] <mathiaz> since -virtual doesn't exist
[16:17] <soren> Sure it does.
[16:17] <nijaba> mathiaz: -server
[16:17] <soren> I've filed a bug against linux-meta about the missing linux{,-image}-virtual packages.
[16:18] <dendrobates> soren: have you sent an email to pete about it?
[16:18] <soren> There *is* a virtual kernel flavour.
[16:18] <soren> dendrobates: Umm. No?
[16:18] <nijaba> soren: and is the 64bit version available as well?
[16:18] <soren> nijaba: Yes.
[16:18] <nijaba> so the only thinkg misssing is the meta packages....
[16:18] <soren> yes.
[16:18]  * nijaba puts too many letters...
[16:19] <mathiaz> soren: once the -virtual- packages are there, is there anything that needs to be changed in the installer to pick itup ?
[16:19] <soren> dendrobates: linux-image-2.6.27-4-virtual | 2.6.27-4.6 | intrepid/universe | amd64, i386
[16:19] <soren> Whoops, that wasn't for dendrobates.
[16:19] <soren> Whuh... Universe?
[16:19] <nijaba> mathiaz: some server-ship seeding?
[16:19] <soren> Yeah, we need to seed it.
[16:19] <mathiaz> soren: since as of now -server is installed in Jeos
[16:20] <soren> It needs seeding, but first a metapackage.
[16:20] <mathiaz> soren: right - and the installer will automatically choose it
[16:20] <soren> mathiaz: Erm.. No.
[16:20] <soren> mathiaz: Not the -virtual kernel.
[16:20] <dendrobates> I want to make sure someone looks at the bug.
[16:21] <mathiaz> soren: ok - so -virtual- needs to be seeded + the installer has to be modified.
[16:21] <soren> mathiaz: I'm working on a "detect which virtual environment I'm in, if any" utility.
[16:21] <soren> I'm going to get that added to base-installer for Jaunty.
[16:21] <mathiaz> soren: for intrepid or beyond ?
[16:21] <soren> mathiaz: I'm not sure about changing the installer.
[16:22] <soren> The option you get in isn't called "JeOS". It's called "Minimal install".
[16:22] <mathiaz> soren: ok - so that means we still need to fix or at least look into the JeOS option for the intrepid installer
[16:22] <soren> Which, apart from the kernel choice, is the same thing.
[16:22] <nijaba> soren, in fact, it is not a real JeOS iso replacement...
[16:22] <soren> ..but it's preseedable, which was the original requirement (back in the gutsy days).
[16:22] <soren> nijaba: -v
[16:23] <nijaba> Well, the JeOS iso would install the -virtual kernel by default, so picking minimal install is not a replacement for it
[16:24] <mathiaz> nijaba: so the minimal install for -server intrepid isos installs the same set of packages than JeOS ?
[16:25] <mathiaz> nijaba: what's missing is the -virtual- kernel packages for now ?
[16:25] <soren> nijaba: That's what I just said?
[16:25] <soren> 15:22:19 < soren> Which, apart from the kernel choice, is the same thing.
[16:25] <soren> mathiaz: Yes, apart from the kernel, the choice of packages is (or should be) the same.
[16:26] <mathiaz> soren: ok.
[16:26] <mathiaz> let's move on.
[16:26] <soren> Let's.
[16:26] <mathiaz> sommer: anything else on the server guide ?
[16:26] <sommer> so the jeos section needs updated, and probably the installation section?
[16:26] <mathiaz> sommer: I've given you some feedback on the ldap serction
[16:26] <sommer> mathiaz: yep... still need to adjust that
[16:27] <dendrobates> mathiaz: did you give sommer feedback on the support section, that we discussed?
[16:27] <sommer> mathiaz: was the ldapadd instead of slapadd the only thing?
[16:27] <mathiaz> sommer: not yet
[16:27] <mathiaz> dendrobates: not yet.
[16:27] <dendrobates> mathiaz: you had wanted some changes, that I agreed with.
[16:28] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to update the support section of the server guide
[16:28] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to update the support section of the server guide
[16:28] <mathiaz> sommer: yes
[16:28] <sommer> mathiaz: cool
[16:28] <mathiaz> sommer: I still wanna go through the rest of the section and test it.
[16:28] <mathiaz> sommer: there are some sub-sections about replication and so on.
[16:29] <mathiaz> sommer: I wonder if it's too advanced for the server guide.
[16:29] <sommer> mathiaz: ya, cn=config does add some more complexity
[16:29] <mathiaz> sommer: we could probably mention that it exists and point to the openldap guide
[16:29] <mathiaz> sommer: upstream documentation is good
[16:30] <sommer> mathiaz: I think it's pretty important to have replication in... having only a single LDAP server on a network is sort of scary
[16:31] <mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to update the JeOS and installation section
[16:31] <MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer to update the JeOS and installation section
[16:31] <mathiaz> sommer: right - IIRC upstream documentation may lack some real world ldif files to setup replication.
[16:31] <mathiaz> sommer: I'll go through the section and test it
[16:32] <sommer> mathiaz: ya, and it's not really very clear on adding schema ldif files
[16:32] <mathiaz> sommer: anything else ?
[16:32] <sommer> mathiaz: I think that's it
[16:32] <mathiaz> sommer: great - thanks !
[16:32] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] nagios3 in main
[16:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  nagios3 in main
[16:32] <mathiaz> Koon: ^^ ?
[16:32] <mathiaz> Koon: I think it's fixed now ?
[16:33] <Koon> mathiaz: I posted the MIR, which wasn't really needed, then nagios3 was promoted
[16:33] <Koon> and you added it to the server-ship seed
[16:33] <mathiaz> and it's on the -server cd now ! :D
[16:33] <nijaba> server-ship?
[16:33] <mathiaz> nijaba: yes
[16:33]  * nijaba wonders why, but fine
[16:34] <mathiaz> nijaba: nagios2 was there
[16:34] <nijaba> mathiaz: ah, makes sense then
[16:34] <soren> Well, it wasn't, actually.
[16:34] <Koon> yep
[16:34] <mathiaz> nijaba: I've just s/nagios2/nagios3/
[16:34] <soren> ..but that was a mistake :)
[16:34] <Koon> soren: tss
[16:34] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server survey
[16:34] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server survey
[16:34] <mathiaz> nijaba: how is it going ?
[16:35] <nijaba> it is doing great
[16:35] <nijaba> more than 2000 full replies so far
[16:35] <nealmcb> :)
[16:35] <sommer> wow
[16:35] <mathiaz> nijaba: when do you plan to close the survey ?
[16:35] <nijaba> we get about 1/3 of the respondant that do not complete the survey, but that was expected
[16:36] <nijaba> mathiaz: result will be published before UDS, so I intend to close it last week of november
[16:36]  * nijaba looking for people knowing how to use a SPSS type tool
[16:36] <mathiaz> nijaba: seems that the marketing plan is working well.
[16:37] <nijaba> mathiaz: yes, it is.
[16:37] <mathiaz> anyone that wants to blog about it is welcome.
[16:37] <nijaba> there are also some items left to do in the launch plan
[16:37] <mathiaz> it was announced last thursday - and there is a digg link IIRC
[16:37] <nijaba> yes, but that is not getting too much digging
[16:37] <kirkland> please splat the digg link here, now
[16:38] <kirkland> i'll digg+1 it :-)
[16:38] <nijaba> http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Server_survey_launched
[16:38] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Server_survey_launched
[16:38] <kirkland> done
[16:38] <nealmcb> nijaba: I've played with R in the past - very powerful, if confusing.  scipy also does a lot
[16:39] <kirkland> i'll blog something too
[16:39] <nijaba> nealmcb: are you voluntering to help on the analysis?
[16:39] <nijaba> ;)
[16:39] <mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to blog about the server survey
[16:39] <MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to blog about the server survey
[16:40]  * nealmcb gets a digg in
[16:40] <nealmcb> nijaba: yes
[16:40]  * nijaba hugs nealmcb
[16:40] <nealmcb> I'm not an expert with stats or surveys, but will do what I can
[16:40] <mathiaz> nijaba: great - anything else on the survey ?
[16:41] <nijaba> nope...
[16:41] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Beta Freeze
[16:41] <MootBot> New Topic:  Beta Freeze
[16:41] <mathiaz> so we're in beta freeze and the -server isos for beta have been produced.
[16:41] <mathiaz> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ is used to track the tests.
[16:41] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ is used to track the tests.
[16:41]  * ivoks o/
[16:42] <mathiaz> on a related note, partman-auto-raid has been promoted to main and is now available on the iso
[16:42] <zul> what does that do again?
[16:42] <mathiaz> so preseeded installs can now setup a RAID system
[16:42] <zul> ah
[16:43] <kirkland> \o/
[16:43] <mathiaz> It requires some testing though.
[16:43] <ivoks> iirc, it is usable
[16:43] <ivoks> at least it was when i worked on that... a year ago (or more) :)
[16:43] <mathiaz> ivoks: well - it has never been tested in ubuntu.
[16:43] <ivoks> right
[16:44] <mathiaz> ivoks: It works in debian.
[16:44] <nijaba> an is the option to have a sane boot degraded mode preseedable as well?
[16:44] <nijaba> s/an/and
[16:44] <soren> Yes. It's been the default for years.
[16:45] <soren> :p
[16:45] <nijaba> :P
[16:45] <mathiaz> nijaba: kirkland implemented it - he should know about it.
[16:46] <kirkland> mathiaz: sadly, i have little experience with preseeding, so I don't know
[16:46] <nijaba> kirkland: is it a debconf question?
[16:46] <kirkland> nijaba: yup
[16:46] <soren> kirkland: presseding means answering debconf questions ahead of time.
[16:46] <ivoks> kirkland: you are so lucky... :)
[16:46] <nijaba> so it should work fine
[16:46] <mathiaz> kirkland: ok - so it's preseedable.
[16:46] <kirkland> awesome
[16:47] <soren> For bonus points, someone should tweak kickseed to handle this..
[16:47]  * nealmcb pats kirkland on the back
[16:47] <ivoks> that shouldn't be too hard
[16:47] <nijaba> soren: err... kickstart?
[16:47] <soren> kickseed.
[16:47] <ivoks> no, seed
[16:47] <ivoks> kickstart doesn't know anything about preseeding
[16:47] <mathiaz> nijaba: kickseed is the name of the kickstart implementation for the Ubuntu installer
[16:48] <nijaba> ivoks: yup, but you can add preseeds to it
[16:48] <soren> nijaba: kickseed is an installer component that lets you pass a kickstart file to d-i and then it translates it into the corresponding preseed values.
[16:48]  * nijaba used it without know its name...
[16:48] <mathiaz> ivoks: kickseed has a hook to add preseed command in the kickstart file
[16:49]  * nijaba confirms that it is VERY usefull
[16:49] <ivoks> ok... i always used kickstart file + preseed file - i guess i'm outdated :)
[16:50] <mathiaz> so if you've got some spare server hardware, testing the -server iso for Beta is more than welcome!
[16:50] <mathiaz> Beta is schedule for Thursday.
[16:51] <ivoks> ok :)
[16:51] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[16:51] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[16:51] <mathiaz> anyone wants to add anything ?
[16:51] <ivoks> yes?
[16:51] <ivoks> am i allowed to twist arms of kernel team?
[16:51] <ivoks> :)
[16:52] <ivoks> we have very broken drbd implementation in intrepid
[16:52] <mathiaz> ivoks: on your behalf or on behalf of the server team ?
[16:52] <ivoks> this requires changes in kernel and new user space tools
[16:52] <ivoks> well, server team
[16:52] <nijaba> great calendar to add for the up to date release schedule: 	http://people.ubuntu.com/~vorlon/UbuntuReleaseSchedule.ics
[16:52] <ivoks> the thing is that we have to ship release candidate of drbd 2.8.7
[16:52] <mathiaz> ivoks: what is required on the kernel side ?
[16:53] <ivoks> since stable release doesn't work on 2.6.27, and changes are huge
[16:53] <mathiaz> ivoks: do you have a bug number?
[16:53] <ivoks> this also means that we'll have user space tools from debian experimental
[16:53] <ivoks> yes
[16:54] <ivoks> bug #271254
[16:54] <ivoks> i've been working on this for last 3-4 days and i have a working solution - drbd 2.8.7~rc1
[16:55] <ivoks> http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/0001-UBUNTU-drbd-New-upstream-prerelease-2.8.7-rc1.patch
[16:55] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/0001-UBUNTU-drbd-New-upstream-prerelease-2.8.7-rc1.patch
[16:55] <ivoks> this is a patch for kernel
[16:55] <mathiaz> ivoks: I'm confused by the version numbers.
[16:55] <zul> i had a look at the kernel patch and it looks fine to me
[16:55] <mathiaz> ivoks: 2.8.7 or 8.2.7 ?
[16:55] <ivoks> 8.2.7
[16:55] <zul> mathiaz: 8.2.7
[16:55] <ivoks> sorry, my mistake
[16:55] <ivoks> i'll fix that
[16:56] <mathiaz> ivoks: as of now, 8.2.6 doesn't work in 2.6.27 ?
[16:56] <ivoks> correct
[16:56] <ivoks> opensuse has the same problem
[16:56] <nealmcb> ivoks: thanks for figuring all that out!
[16:56] <mathiaz> ivoks: could it be possible to fix 8.2.6 ?
[16:56] <mathiaz> ivoks: or 8.2.7 is the only viable option ?
[16:57] <zul> basically what happened is that we have 8.0.12 in the archive and the kernel has 8.2.6 which doesnt work well together and if you use 8.2.6. kernel/user then it wont work as well
[16:57] <ivoks> mathiaz: i've looked at commit, for which drbd guys say that fixes the issue
[16:57] <ivoks> it simply depends on too many changes to just go cherry picking
[16:58] <ivoks> in my opinoion, 8.2.7 is a way to go
[16:58] <mathiaz> zul: ok - so 8.2.6 is broken - 8.2.7rc1 works
[16:58] <zul> mathiaz: yes
[16:59] <mathiaz> ivoks: could the kernel be downgraded to 8.0.12 ?
[16:59] <ivoks> i haven't tested 8.0.12 with 2.6.17
[16:59] <zul> mathiaz: Ive talked to kernel guys about that before I got ivoks involved and they didnt think it was a good idea
[17:00] <mathiaz> right - so it seems that 8.2.7rc1 is the best option as the current situation is broken
[17:00] <ivoks> right
[17:01] <nealmcb> zul: and thanks to you too...  looks like it might be one of those costs of going with the 2.6.27 kernel
[17:01] <ivoks> we can do this changes after beta is out...
[17:01] <mathiaz> ivoks: do you have 8.2.7 tools in a ppa ?
[17:01] <dendrobates> ivoks: is there a bug #
[17:01] <ivoks> nealmcb: yes, it's exactly that...
[17:01] <mathiaz> dendrobates: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/drbd8/+bug/271254
[17:01] <ivoks> mathiaz: no, but i'm working on it... upstream alredy provides debian/, so i'll just compare to our and debian source
[17:02] <mathiaz> ivoks: you've mentionned debian experimental.
[17:02] <ivoks> yes
[17:02] <ivoks> mathiaz: debian experimental has 8.2.6
[17:02] <mathiaz> ivoks: I think the key point here is to have the tools in a PPA so that we can show that 8.2.7 is working correctly.
[17:02] <ivoks> mathiaz: i agree
[17:03] <ivoks> mathiaz: i have 8.2.6 in my ppa, but i'll move it to 8.2.7 today
[17:03] <mathiaz> ivoks: excellent. then once we're out of beta, we can update the kernel.
[17:03] <mathiaz> ivoks: IIUC you've also the kernel part ready ?
[17:04] <mathiaz> ivoks: ie a git branch ready ?
[17:04] <ivoks> mathiaz: correct
[17:04] <ivoks> yes
[17:04] <ivoks> http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/0001-UBUNTU-drbd-New-upstream-prerelease-2.8.7-rc1.patch
[17:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.grad.hr/~ivoks/0001-UBUNTU-drbd-New-upstream-prerelease-2.8.7-rc1.patch
[17:04] <zul> ivoks: just send the patch off to the kernel-t-eam mailing list is is the proper procedure
[17:04] <mathiaz> ivoks: zul: is it possible to upload a modified kernel to a PPA ?
[17:04] <ivoks> why not?
[17:05] <mathiaz> ivoks: I don't know - that's why I'm asking :D
[17:05] <zul> mathiaz: it can be done sure...
[17:05] <ivoks> if not, i can setup archive outside ppa
[17:05] <mathiaz> ivoks: to point is to get wider testing ASAP
[17:05] <mathiaz> ivoks: KernelFreeze will be in two weeks for Intrepid.
[17:05] <ivoks> i know
[17:05] <mathiaz> ivoks: so we won't have that many uploads to test/fix things.
[17:05] <ivoks> sorry, i didn't have time untill a week ago :(
[17:05] <zul> mathiaz: its best to send off the patch asap
[17:06] <mathiaz> zul: ok
[17:06] <ivoks> zul: with fixed typo
[17:06] <mathiaz> [ACTION] ivoks to send the drbd patch to the ubuntu-kernel mailing list
[17:06] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to send the drbd patch to the ubuntu-kernel mailing list
[17:06] <zul> ivoks: yep
[17:07] <mathiaz> [ACTION] ivoks to upload 8.2.7 tools to a PPA
[17:07] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks to upload 8.2.7 tools to a PPA
[17:07] <mathiaz> ivoks: ^^ that will help for sponsoring
[17:07] <ivoks> and kernel source
[17:07] <ivoks> i know
[17:08] <ivoks> easier to track changes
[17:08] <mathiaz> ivoks: excellent ! Thanks for the good work
[17:08] <mathiaz> Anything else to add ?
[17:08] <ivoks> yes :)
[17:08] <ivoks> bacula :)
[17:08] <ivoks> bacula in hardy isn't in very good shape
[17:09] <ivoks> we've missed a .1 release cause of one bug
[17:09] <ivoks> upstream claims that bug is fixed, but our bug reporter claims it isn't
[17:09] <mathiaz> ivoks: .1 - you mean 8.04.1 ?
[17:09] <ivoks> right
[17:09] <mathiaz> ivoks: well - we can still fix things in hardy.
[17:10] <ivoks> what's the procedure if our bug reporter doesn't reply to bug report, while upstream claims that bug is fixed?
[17:10] <nijaba> ivoks: I would tend to beleive waht kern said and check if the 2 patches he mentioned were actually applied
[17:10] <ivoks> since, for SRU, we need validation-confirmed
[17:10] <ivoks> and there's no one to confirm it :)
[17:10] <mathiaz> ivoks: what's the bug number ?
[17:11] <ivoks> just a second...
[17:11] <mathiaz> ivoks: for SRU we also need a test case - so that we can reproduce it
[17:11] <ivoks> bug #227613
[17:13] <mathiaz> ivoks: hm - it seems that we have test case that is repoducable
[17:14] <mathiaz> ivoks: zul: were you able to reproduce it or not ?
[17:14] <ivoks> well, it just seems
[17:14] <ivoks> neither can i or upstream reproduce this bug :)
[17:14] <zul> mathiaz: no i wasnt
[17:15] <mathiaz> ivoks: well - in that case, we can only rely on the reporter or one of the tester.
[17:15] <ivoks> and the bug reporter on bacula's buglist confirmed that this patch solved the issue
[17:16] <mathiaz> ivoks: ok - it seems that it's a corner case though
[17:16] <ivoks> ok, so we wait for bug reporter to confirm it is fixed?
[17:16] <mathiaz> ivoks: in this case we rely on the rporter
[17:16] <ivoks> ok
[17:16] <mathiaz> ivoks: yes - I'd proceed that way.
[17:17] <ivoks> that's what i tought... :)
[17:17] <mathiaz> ok - we're over time now.
[17:17] <mathiaz> Anything else ?
[17:18] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
[17:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
[17:18] <mathiaz> next week, same time, same place ?
[17:18] <ivoks> ok
[17:18] <sommer> works for me
[17:19] <mathiaz> great - so see ya all next week, same time, here.
[17:19] <mathiaz> happy beta testing all !
[17:19] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
[17:19] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:19.
[17:19] <ivoks> \o/
[17:19] <sommer> thanks mathiaz, later on all
[17:19]  * soren kicks Mootbot into a resonable timezone
[17:20] <soren> 11:19... pffffft!
[17:20] <nealmcb> soren: yeah - us central time - huh....
[17:21] <nealmcb> now mountain time - that would be good :)
[17:26]  * soren shakes his head in disbelief
[17:27] <soren> Swatch internet time.
[17:27] <alex3f[ubuntu-ro> 18:26 CET
[19:05] <juliux> @schedule berlin
[19:15] <boredandblogging> juliux: might be a bit late for the meeting
[19:15] <juliux> boredandblogging: hm?
[19:15] <juliux> ok
[19:52] <GiorgosL[GR]> hello everyone
[19:53] <juliux> hi GiorgosL[GR]
[19:53] <juliux> popey: boredandblogging ping
[19:54] <elendil> hi
[19:54] <juliux> hi elendil
[20:00] <juliux> welcome to the lococouncil meeting we are waiting atm for more council members
[20:01] <Ow1> OK. I'm here for representing Romanian LoCo team. Did we qualify for this meeting?
[20:01] <manuelciosici> hey Ow1
[20:01] <juliux> hi Ow1 yes you are on the agenda
[20:02] <Ow1> ok
[20:06] <boredandblogging> i'm in a meeting
[20:06] <boredandblogging> brb
[20:06] <boredandblogging> sorry
[20:06] <juliux> hi boredandblogging
[20:06] <juliux> boredandblogging: do you hear anything form popey, janc oder effi?
[20:06] <juliux> popey: =
[20:07] <leoquant> janc or janC?
[20:07] <juliux> janc
[20:07] <juliux> ähh JanC ;)
[20:18] <juliux> i am sorry but i think we have to cancle the meeting we have no quorum to approv locoteams and nxvl isn´t here for his issue
[20:18] <juliux> as somebody something else, which is urgent?
[20:19] <DoruHush> ﻿juliux: it is canceled forever?
[20:19] <juliux> DoruHush: not for ever but for today
[20:19] <DoruHush> or for an other date?
[20:19] <juliux> DoruHush: we will announce the next meeting soon
[20:19] <DoruHush> ok
[20:19] <juliux> i am sorry
[20:20] <elendil> np
[20:20] <manuelciosici> well, see you next time:)
[20:20] <alex3f> see ya
[20:21] <elendil> bye for now - have a good day/night/whatever ;)
[20:21] <GiorgosL[GR]> ok byeby
[20:28] <popey> moo
[20:28] <popey> erk
[20:28] <popey> too late - sorry
[20:29] <DoruHush> I'm still here
[20:29] <DoruHush> hello
[20:29] <juliux> hey popey
[20:30] <juliux> popey: we canceld the meeting, but if you and boredandblogging have time we can do some points;)
[20:30] <popey> email issues, now resolved, didnt realise we had a meeting today
[20:30] <popey> i can be around for the next 30 mins, yes
[20:30] <simosx> can we have a word as to who where missing from the meeting (and it got cancelled)? As in 'from the six council members, only four attended', or something like that.
[20:31] <popey> i was missing simosx and by the look of it so was JanC
[20:31] <juliux> simosx: ?
[20:32] <juliux> simosx: there where only 2/5 of the council so we had no quorum
[20:32] <juliux> popey: is next week bevor the cc meeting working for you? so same time same day next week
[20:32] <current88> by all
[20:32] <popey> yes juliux
[20:33] <juliux> good so we have the next lococouncil next week
[20:34] <juliux> popey: boredandblogging will send out all the mails;)
[20:45] <nxvl> i'm still on time?
[20:45] <nxvl> or i am too late?
[20:46] <Ow1> too late
[20:46] <nxvl> :(
[20:46] <Ow1> al least for loco council
[20:46] <Ow1> :)
[20:46] <Ow1> but you are on time for the next meeting
[20:47] <nxvl> i need to get some thing discussed with the LoCo Council
[20:47] <nxvl> boredandblogging: still here?
[20:47] <nxvl> popey: ?
[20:47] <popey> wassup?
[20:48] <nxvl> popey: i got the times wrong and i think is too late for the meeting?
[20:48] <popey> i did too
[20:48] <nxvl> :()
[20:48] <nxvl> :(
[20:49] <Ow1> well guy, I also wrote an email on the loco-contact maillinglist
[20:49] <Ow1> and I am disapointed by this meeting
[20:50] <Ow1> and how did you prepare this meeting
[20:50] <nxvl> nah, LoCo council rocks
[20:50] <nxvl> is just that i completely forgot about the meeting
[20:50] <Ow1> it may be.
[20:51] <Ow1> but for now the loco council proves me that they don't treat the problems with sufficient seriosity
[20:51] <nxvl> actually they do
[20:51] <Ow1> no hard feelling.
[20:51] <Ow1> it's just my feedback
[20:52] <popey> I'm sorry you feel that way Ow1, it's my fault I wasnt here on time, I apologise
[20:52] <Ow1> I accept your apology
[20:52] <Ow1> and as I said, I don't have bad feeling for any of you guys
[20:52] <persia> Ow1: What problem isn't being treated seriously?  If there's something that's critical, it can often be discussed over email between meetings.
[20:53] <Ow1> the presence problem
[20:53] <juliux> Ow1: what is your actual problem? most of the loco council members are 24/7/365 on irc and our mailbox is open for you allways
[20:53] <Ow1> you get me wrong
[20:53] <juliux> Ow1: and we will have the next meeting next week
[20:54] <juliux> Ow1: same day same time only one week later
[20:54] <Ow1> juliux: OK
[20:54] <juliux> and we hope that we then have a quorum
[20:54] <Ow1> me too
[20:55] <juliux> so cu next week
[20:55]  * juliux goes to bad
[20:57] <nxvl> juliux: is there any ML i can use to discuss my topic?
[20:57] <popey> loco-council@lists.ubuntu.com
[20:57] <nxvl> popey: can i suscribe to it or it's closed?
[20:57] <nxvl> subscribe*
[20:57] <popey> closed
[20:58] <popey> if you mail to it, we will cc you in replies
[20:58] <nxvl> ok
[20:58] <nxvl> that's what i thougt
[21:12] <nxvl> ok, mail sended
[21:12] <nxvl> popey: who needs to approve it?
[21:19] <boredandblogging> nxvl: anyone on the loco-council can approve it, I approved your email
[21:20] <nxvl> \o/
[21:22]  * c00l2sv says hi to everyone